Episode 9. Paige Compton: From the White House to Vertical Drama

Before she became one of the most in-demand directors in vertical comedy, Paige Compton spent the final four years of her US Army service as Audio Visual Director for President Barack Obama. In this episode, she traces an unlikely path — running live events for two administrations, graduating from AFI into the void of 2020, and arriving in vertical drama right as the format exploded.

Paige has directed some of the biggest titles in the space, including Snatched a Billionaire to Be My Husband and Hold Me Tight, Mr. Firefighter — both #1 hits. We get into her “aha” moment watching Netflix, Warner Bros., and Fox circle the first LA vertical drama market, her surprise induction as a full voting member of the Television Academy, and her sharp, contrarian read on the craft: that right now, vertical isn’t really about storytelling — it’s about attention.

She also gets candid about the realities of the work: pay, set safety, the unions she senses forming, why she turns down projects she can’t put her name behind, and how AI is reshaping the back half of 2026. Plus practical, no-nonsense advice for anyone trying to break in — pick one lane, show up, and start now.

Whether you’re a filmmaker eyeing the vertical leap or just curious where this format is headed, this is a conversation about reinvention, momentum, and changing altitude.

Connect with Paige:
Website: paigecompton.com
Instagram: @dudette.director

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vertical Reach Podcast. This is where storytelling meets strategy. I'm Pauline Gray. I sit down as creators, innovators, and voices facing the world a vertical story. Let's go stories that connect. Hello, everyone. Thank you again for coming to the Vertical Reach Podcast. Just about to show a bit. The vertical reach as a concept is that moment when you extend upward physically, professionally, emotionally, to meet what exists above you when standing at the same level is no longer enough. Vertical reach is the act of rising to meet what's higher, whether your body, your work, or your ambitions. And this podcast is about people who didn't just pivot careers, they changed altitude. This season focuses on filmmakers and creators entering the emerging vertical micro drama space. This tends to have occurred as part of a large integrational reinvention. The goal here is to document real-time transitions, not to give this polished hindsight. Today in the guest year we have the amazing Paige Compton. Paige has over 20 years of experience in entertainment. She's been directing micro drama series since its inception, so she's a real trailblazer. And she's currently one of the most sought-after directors for vertical format film, particularly in the comedy series area. She is a graduate of the Distinguished A5 Directing Program, Disney's Unrepresented Filmmakers Program, and the Warner Brothers Discovery Access Director Program. So all her industry accolades are super tight. She's been fully vetted by the standard Hollywood machine, which is amazing as well. She's a veteran, so we can thank her for her service as well in the comments, please. During her time in the Army, she designed and built TV studios. We gotta hear more about that. She earned a membership in the Society of Broadcast Engineers, and her last four years of service were spent as an audiovisual director for just President Barack Obama. I think we know who that is, familiar with that president. This year, Paige is creating two brand new independent vertical series. Some of her major accolades are when she directed Snatched a Billionaire to be my husband. I won't know how to do that. Who doesn't, right? I mean, I know. Right, you know, show me some tips. That vertical series was number one for two months on the charts in top 10 for the next three months. Also, Hold Me Tight Mr. Firefighter was number one for two months and on the top three for six months. It's also known as the firefighter who wouldn't let go. So my first question is how do I find me a firefighter who will let me go who's also a billionaire?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Um, well, according to the stories, you either need to, you know, have a really terrible boyfriend who's the nephew of a billionaire and start dating his uncle, or um, you need to be a bad boss CEO who gets rescued by a firefighter, but also simultaneously rescues the firefighter, and then he dedicates his whole life to finding you and has to marry you.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Amazing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

I've got to figure out how to navigate that. She also directed The Beggar King Returns. That was on the top three for a week and top 10 for three weeks. And I can go on and on and on with her amazing, amazing accomplishments, always ranking in the top 10 for months at a time. But let's dive in real quick to Paige. Why don't you give us a little bit of insight into your time in the military and how that informed yourself as a filmmaker, a little sort of personalized timeline?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah. So I was one of those filmmakers. It's like I've always wanted to make movies since I was a kid. And when I got to graduating age in high school, my parents realized very quickly that it wasn't a uh hobby. It was something I was seriously pursuing. What's he thinking? Yeah, yeah. I was like, that's not a real job. Like, you need to go to like an accredited college, you can't just go to film school. And so um I did computer animation in a junior college for two years, but it still wasn't enough. Like, I really wanted to be like on set and you know, making movies. So I ran away and joined the circus to put it, you know, uh lightly. Was my thought was if I can't my parents won't pay for film school, and I have to find my own film school. And so the military wasn't just a like split decision. Like that was something that was very methodical for me. Like I looked up the types of jobs that were in the military. Was there anything that was film related? And I found a few and went out for those and then ended up doing the more technical side, which really helped me once I got out because now I know how to speak the language of like the sound department, editing, camera, lighting, electronics, like all of that, because I was uh an audiovisual engineer in the military. So it's when I'm asking for things on set, now I know what I'm asking for and how long it should take for the most part. My first duty assignment was with the NSA in Georgia and Fort Gordon, just outside of Augusta. Um, I was there for two years, and right when I arrived, my unit went non-deployable. So I was just in Georgia for two years, and um, not the fun part. Not Atlanta, you know, or Savannah or anything like that. So there was an opportunity because we already had clearances and a very specific job that was very niche, very small group of us in the military. And me was one of the very few females. I think I only knew three or four other females in my line of work in the military. The opportunity to work for White House Communications Agency came along. And they were like, if you get in, that's a four-year minimum. So you have to extend your contract. And I was never one that was like, oh, I want to do all 20 years, like, you know, I'm gonna just stick to the minimum, but that opportunity was too good to pass up. Like, I got to travel the world with the most high profile people and work live events and stuff, and like, you know, get my celebrity experience, I guess, where it's like you learn very quickly, people are just people. And yeah, and it it's an environment that requires absolute perfection in the moment. So, yeah. So getting out of that, out of like that whole White House environment and like setting up all the live events and running all the live events for Obama and Biden and the first and second ladies. Um, I went to film school in my undergrads in Washington, D.C. at the Art Institute, and then applied to AFI on a whim just because I saw that they had they were tracking their alumni. So I'm like, okay, they have something in place that's beyond just like, here's a certificate, good luck. So I'm like, yeah. So I'm like, I'm gonna apply to that and see, and then move to LA before I got in because I knew that's where I needed to be, and got really lucky and got in and um graduated into the void of 2020. So my graduation date was May 2020. We're hurt to graduate. No, because AFI is a whole other mind. We demanded to do a live, like we want to be in person because traditionally AFI graduate at the TCL Chinese theater. Okay, and we're like, we are not missing that opportunity to do that. Yeah. So we actually walked at the end of like 2021. They like graduated us and then graduated the 2021 class like the next day.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yeah. So then, yeah, I just started writing a lot because I couldn't really do anything else. Um and then when things started to open up again, we did like a web series in 2021, and then um when things started to open up, that's when I got into like the Veterans Writing Project with the Writers Guild. I got into yeah, the Disney program, the Warner Brothers program, and then the strikes hit that same year, like 2023, that all happened, and then the strikes hit. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah, and like dude, and then like the Warner Brothers program, they're like we were their first inaugural class, and they're like, it was truly a pipeline. Like you're supposed to go in, you get training, and then there's like I think it's like 28 of us, and then they 10 of those people get to go on to Shadow and then direct like their own television episode. And it just depends on like, you know, you know, the shows that are available and like who wants to bring on a green director. It has to be, yeah, it has to be like on its third season or more, you know, and like there's like lots of stipulations, but they couldn't even get us that because of the strikes. Like, we're technically still in the program. Like they do, they do like mixers and classes and like refreshers and stuff, and they're like still trying, which I really appreciate. But because of that, that fall of 2023, I was just ready to direct literally anything. So, yeah, I was ready to direct literally anything. So my wife, she produced what is real shorts first, and I think last all black cast, werewolf, um uh vertical that you should all go watch and support and bump the numbers if we can. And she, you know, didn't have the best experience, and so she kind of gave me that heads up, but I was like, I don't care, let's go. I knew I knew the EP on it because she actually produced my short with Disney. Oh wow. So so she brought me on, and that's how I ended up doing uh Stash a Billionaire to be my husband, which um we filmed in I want to say October, and then they released it in January of 2024. And then from there, because that one I just got lucky and that one blew up, but I just kept getting work since then. Amazing, amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

So now I normally would ask, was there a moment that you realized that your horizontal growth had capped out and you want to reach higher? But let me pivot the question a little bit. At what point did you realize that you graduated from the Obama White House, you went to AFI, did all these amazing programs and what was I guess would be sort of your okay now I've got the resume, now what? What's the what was your what next moment? And I've got the resume moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

As far as like in the vertical space or pre-vertical. Honestly, didn't really like I was doing vertical mostly because what I saw right off the bat was this is amazing practice for directing. Okay. And I'm getting paid to do it. And like I saw my friends that are like trying to get features off the ground, and still, you know, it's just getting harder and harder and harder. There is an indie wave coming. There is, it's it's coming, but for me, it was just like I I'm lucky if I get to direct one thing a year, and mostly probably won't get paid is usually through a program or something like that. And I can feel the rust in the gears, like getting back into it.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Absolutely. I hear you, I hear that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

So to have this tool to like work those muscles and get more instinctual, especially with the speed at which these moves, you just kind of have to go with your gut sometimes with these decisions.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Two, three takes and moving on. You got two, maybe two, three takes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Yeah. Even in pre-production, though, like you get like two weeks and you're just like having to make decisions, you know, on what what what direction we're gonna go. And um, it's for me, it was just like that's how I kind of posed it in my head. And I never did like a fake name or anything. I was just like, I want people to see that I'm working. Like, I don't care what it is, as long as they see that I'm working and I'm directing. But my big aha moment of like, oh, this is gonna be a lot bigger than I think most people are realizing. It was last September, and I went to um the very first LA vertical drama market. I was asked to speak on the director's panel. And I went and I just thought it was gonna be like, you know, other vertical things I've been to, like small and like, you know, kind of um, yeah, yeah. And I showed up and I was like, wow, this is really well organized. And I met people from Netflix and I met people from Warner Brothers, and I met people from, you know, Fox that were sniffing around. And I was like, oh, yeah, oh, mm-hmm. And I went, okay, I see where this is going next year. Next year's gonna be wild because they're all gonna start getting into the game because they're seeing that it's working. And then that was the first time I saw independence coming out too. And I'm like, oh, that's gonna shift. And then I found about about the um apps coming out that are supporting independence, which is changing the whole distribution dynamic of everything. So I'm like, whoa, next year's gonna be crazy, and and then at the same time, this is the other like, you know, straw on the camel's back in a good way, was um at the same time, one of my actors on um Hold Me Tight, Mr. Firefighter. He played the grandfather, his name is Patrick. You should hire him, he's great. He was like, Hey, come to this FYC event, you know, and I was just like, anytime the universe presents me like random opportunities like that, I usually just do it just to see where it goes.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Oh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

So I'm there at this event and it's really cool and it's super fun. And I'm like kind of chatting with a few people, and they're like, Are you in the academy? Like you direct and stuff, and I go, Hey, you know, I'm it's not I don't direct TV, you know, I direct these verticals, and they were all like, Oh, what's that? You know, they hadn't really heard of it yet, but they were like, You should join. Just join, just try. And I'm like, sure. You know, the worst they'll say is no, and I'm still in the same place, and that's fine. So I apply to the television academy, and within a month, I got accepted into the director's peer group as a full voting member. Like, not I know. And I was just like, wait, what? Okay, so the television academy is recognized. I just have like one second unit lifetime TV credit from like years ago. Everything else is vertical. I'm like, okay, so they're recognizing this now as something legitimate. And, you know, they're sniffing around. And that's when I pivoted my whole perspective of like, okay, this is gonna be a third medium. This is starting here, but it's gonna take off. We're gonna have other types of episodes and things that are come up in the next couple of years, you know. But yeah, it was like my big aha moment. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

I'm curious because while you are not deployed in the military, I have always found sort of the militaristic regimen language, even some of the acronyms like Going 10-1, oh yeah, lovely statement from the mil from the military sort of regimen and patterns to work really well in the film industry. I'm always amazed how in the film industry everyone just comes back from lunch. You know, I mean it's very rare when people say, We're back, that we're not already back. Yeah, everyone's already there. So I'm curious. What do you find carried over from those years in the Obama White House, from the years in the military? How is that sort of informing your sort of workflow, your attitude, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Well, so this is one of my favorite stories to tell.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Okay, tell okay, I go.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Um excited. Um I learned in my undergrad, in my film history course, that Hollywood was actually like the whole structure of it all was actually formed by military veterans. So, so silent film era, World War I just wrapped up. Nobody gives a shit about movies. They're just trying to get people to work in these like burgeoning studios and stuff. And the only people that were really needing work were vets. Nobody else was taking it seriously. So they, you know, scrounged up a bunch of vets and they came up with the structure and they based it off of what they knew from the military. So, like above the line is your officers, and it operates a lot like that. Below the line is your enlisted, with like the DP being like your command sergeant major, you know. Um, and then even like fun things like 10-1, like um C47s.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

What's your twice?

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yeah, yeah. And radio speak and everything, like the separating personal and professional, even though we're in a creative space, you know, we're all trying to, it's all very collaborative and team oriented and all of that. Even when I'm walking on like these studios, like in Warner Brothers or in like Paramount, like the way that they label their buildings, it's just like a military base. Like the numbers, the fact that they just put a label on the building that's like cafeteria, it it's like warms my heart. But like the transition into it wasn't difficult at all for me, like as far as like the two worlds colliding, because like there's a faint bit of that military style that's still kind of left from our World War I vets. And um, the most fascinating thing for me was thinking that that chapter's done, the military. That chapter's done. Now I'm a filmmaker, but what I found was the military community, like there's a um group called Veterans in Media Entertainment. Um they, you know, that plus the veteran like film fests and stuff, like though that niche community within a niche community has been such like a welcoming world for me because it has helped me beyond what anything I could have imagined as far as like my military life. Yeah, that community has really helped me as far as like like my film career is concerned.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And a bit of a sidebar, because I'm not really curious about this, as a veteran in that community, what sort of I'm I'm wondering the therapeutic function does filmmaking serve? And I asked because I actually was pitching my clients for a for a VA project. And what they found was that a lot of veterans internally classify their service and as though if they were not in active combat, they were not really a veteran or they did not deserve whatever the benefits provided to the government of a vet for a veteran, yeah, they were not taking full advantage. And in the spot we worked on, it was very much about yes, you know, you were calms. I was in combat, but had your calms not been so clear, so accurate, so direct, I would have never got out of that fight or fight. So I'm really curious about for you, how do you feel the filmmaking creative field has sort of functioned within the community as a healing process, community building? I'm just curious about that.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Well, the one thing I do want to point out, just with that question, you know, non-combat, that affects a lot of women veterans. Um mainly because we weren't allowed to be in combat until 2014 when Obama lifted that restriction, allowing women to enter combat arms and then also at the same time making it okay to be gay in the military. So big pivotal year for the military. With that, it's it's so it's so fascinating that we're talking about this right now. I just got asked to speak at the California Women's Veterans reception that they have annually here in LA um about this same thing. So um yeah, uh man, I will say, you know, the veteran community, I still think there's a lot to be said. I will, yeah, what you said about um the VA and a lot of vets feeling like, well, I don't I don't deserve it. This guy who, you know, got his leg blown off or whatever, you know, he deserves it more than me, which like I understand that feeling as someone who also felt that. Um, but I also simultaneously, so my cousin, who's only like a few months younger than me, he joined right after me. We were the only two in my family that joined. I ended up in the secret squirrel track, as we call it, where you end up with like a high clearance and you're in like all these secret spaces where you can't talk about anything. Um, and then my cousin, he was a um full combat infantry ranger army guy, like, you know, like gung-ho, you know, hua hoo in in the shit, um, was medically retired because his buddy that he was on a patrol with ended up stepping on my IDD, an IED. And like, yeah, it was massive and terrible. He was working at the White House at the time. I remember exactly where I was when I got the news. Like, I took a non travel for like a a couple of months and just checked on him because he was at Walter Reed, and I would happen to be there, and I was his only family there, so. And go check on him and everything. And I remember him telling me as he was getting out. I think I had like three years left after he got out. And he was just like, when you get out, it doesn't matter what you did. You signed your name on that line not knowing what could happen. And there's so many people that won't even do that. So you are you deserve everything. You've put your heart and soul and your life on the line, period. And you deserve every benefit that you have earned. So to answer that question. And then as far as the media side of things, my biggest, like my biggest soapbox, I guess I would say on this is that the media has done such a disservice to veterans. I think as far as representation is concerned, we are either super duper untouchable heroes on a pedestal, which is a very difficult responsibility to carry for some people. Or we're so broken from PTSD that we're a danger to society. And a lot of people lean towards that more than they lean towards hero. You know, even if they're like, oh, thank you. Such a hero in the back of their mind. They're like, are you unstable? You know? It's not that the stories that we've seen are untrue. It's just like it's Hollywood, so they want to hone in on the most dramatic shit. But there's like, that's only like 2% of military stories. Like there's a mountain of, you know, people and worlds. Like I my eyes were opened when I went in. I met so many people from all over the world because they were in the military to get their citizenship because they believed in America so much. Like any like name a country. Like you, they're probably there. I happened, um, like when I was in training, it was mostly people from Nigeria at that time. But um, but yeah, they have people from all over the world that join the military, all over the country, all walks of life, um, all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, you know, sexual orientations, like everything. And mostly what we see is male. They're like six feet tall. They're usually whites, with like maybe like a person of color teammate, you know. You hardly ever see women or the queer community or, you know, like Asian women, like, you know, like it, like any. It's just like, and if they are represented, it's like a tiny little role, you know, that they kind of pop in like, look, I'm representing, you know, like it's not yeah, hashtag token. Yes, exactly. And so it's like there's just so many other fascinating stories out there, you know, of women and people of color. And I think that has been the biggest thing as far as like healing is concerned in the community, is we all feel it. You know, we all feel it. And there's like even stories from I have a marine veteran friend, she's in a writer's room. Right now, they picked her specifically because she's has a Latina background and she's a Marine veteran. And there's another male, white male veteran in the same writer's room. And when there's like military questions, they'll always go to the guy and be like, So what do you think about this? Da-da-da-da-da, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he'll like answer and then he'll go, but would you also like to ask the other veteran in the room? From my experience, at least been really supportive and everyone's aware. And we're, you know, when we do get the opportunities to try to put like more even representation out there, like people are on board. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Wow. I feel like we should have a whole other episode just on like, you know, well, military to filmmaking vertical leap. Maybe that maybe next next season. I love it. I love it. So let me ask you this. Um, what surprised you most about vertical storytelling?

SPEAKER_02 26:07

I think the fact, and this has been like a learning curve, mainly because us first, like the first class of you know, US directors, we had to kind of learn what it was as opposed to like like we're like figuring it out. I think for me it was the fact that it's it's really not about storytelling, it's more about like moments, I guess, if that makes sense. Because interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

So peaks, peaks, peaks, values, peaks, peaks, peaks and valleys.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah, like like clickbait, you know, is like the worst way of putting it. But I just watched this video like a couple of days ago where this guy broke down, like everyone thinks, you know, movies came from theater and TV came from movies, and now we're like, oh, vertical came from you know, TV or whatever. But he goes, That's not the case. Like, theater is theater, movies came from photography, it's visual, it is photography. Like, that's where it started. Motion pictures, yes, motion pictures. They are pictures, it is photography, like hands down. And he goes, TV did not come from movies, TV came from radio. And so it's like this other way of approaching storytelling where you know, people are walking around their house, they have to know what's going on. We need more dialogue, you know, not so visual, more dialogue heavy, more character-based, you know, um, so people can like get it. And with that in mind, I was like, well, vertical, vertical didn't come from TV, vertical came from social media, you know. Vertical's birthplace is social media, the phone and games, the gamifying, you know. So when you think of it that way, at least right now, it really isn't about storytelling. Um, it's about attention. It's about getting your attention and keeping it.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

The attention of con. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Yeah. I feel like we'll move away from that slowly. I feel like we'll get more actual like stories that adapt to like this kind of mini episode thing, you know, and all of that, and it'll be more visually interesting, the budgets will be higher, and I do see that future. I just know that right now, sp specifically with the apps that are coin-based, they need the clicks, they need you to keep watching, they need your attentions. I actually had a producer tell me if you read the script and it's really good, and you're like, wow, this is a great script. This is gonna do so well, he goes, it's gonna bomb. If you read the script and you go, this is garbage, he goes, that that's gonna blow up. It's gonna blow up because it's not about the logic of the story, the plot, or even character building. Yeah, exactly. Like it's not even about, it's not about any of those things. It's about like it's about those shock moments, like, what the wait, what? You know, and then you have to keep going. So once that clicked for me, I was like, okay, this is a totally different medium. This is a totally different way of approaching it as a director. And and I still catch myself on set sometimes being like, but that doesn't make any sense. And the client's like, but we need it. I'm like, copy. We need it because you want that moment. If they're saying they want it in the ads, get it and get it good because the more those ads work, which they've already tested, the more numbers you get, the bigger the hit is, the more you're working. But there's hope. Apps like Candy Jar that are not Coinbase, that whole economy based in IP. Yeah, exactly. So it's like that whole economy of like you need a good story, you want something that sucks people in, then they're vested in the characters and all of that. So it's like it's coming, you know. That's all it, yeah.

unknown 29:42

Please.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Anyway, I did that into your question. I don't know if that answered your question.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Absolutely absolutely did. Um, so was there anything that felt kind of risky? Like you mentioned, you didn't go under a pseudonym or a num daughter, I guess would be the term. Um, so something feel risky, something feel inevitable, or between that risky and inevitable pocket hype, but what do you feel you felt?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

The only risk I feel like I take in this corner of the industry, and it's a personal risk, is um not taking on stories that I feel are gratuitously abusive, anything with any like sexual assault that is unreprimanded, like she falls in love with the guy that did it, you know, and things like that. Anything where the messaging is like something I can't put my name behind, like I just say no to those projects, um, which puts some big gaps. A lot of other directors that have started at the same time as me are doing, they've done like twice as many as me. They've done like 20, you know, 25 of these um since 2023. But I have a little bit of a slower approach, I think, because of that hard line that I have. If I'm gonna put my name on it, I'm not, you know, then it needs to be something that I can stand behind and I can go, yeah, I made that project, you know, and it's out there, and I'm I'm happy I did it and I'm proud of it. And our team did the best that they could, and that's what's most important to me. The problem with that, the risk behind it is that the less frequent you're doing these, the better chance you have of like being left behind, I guess, to an extent. Um so because you're thinking social media, right? Which is its birthplace. Ask any YouTuber, any podcaster, any person that's like trying to fully engage in social media, it is non-stop.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

So always, always, always, always post. Yeah. Let me ask you this. You mentioned the independent world, but I don't know if that's the answer to the question. Paige, what is your next swipe up?

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Ooh, and I think this is also because you said what's a risk, and then what is like a a positive. Yeah, I think, I think, to be very honest, um, I'm gonna wrap the swipe up into this as well. I do see a lot of hope in the independent side of this. I think it's very new. It's just starting to get on its feet, but I do feel like it's gonna be the one corner where you're gonna see this is a very bold statement, but um, the future of how Hollywood can function. Okay. So I think it's gonna be a good model for that, mainly because everything's being shot for very little money, which I do think is gonna be the future of Hollywood. Unfortunately, there'll be very few projects that are like massive, big budgets.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Um, just because we're gonna be petrol movies, franchises, but that's about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Mm-hmm. We're gonna be competing with AI, unfortunately. Um, hopefully we get the guardrails and everything that we need that keeps us safe, but that will make things a lot cheaper. And so you have to compete with that budget-wise. And I think the independent side is a great model for that because you're gonna see original content that people are engaging with that we will have data for, where they can take that and show them like this is the audience that's engaging, this is what they engage with, this is what they like about it. And you'll get a lot more on the back end because that's where you get most of your money in verticals, you know, in the back end. I think also it's gonna present a new way of proving yourself as a filmmaker, as opposed to the old school film festival route. Like you could go scrounge up some money, crowdfund whatever it is, go shoot your thing, put it on this like distribution basically. That is like um, I'll name two. So MoviePix and Inverted are two platforms that are coming out this year, if they're not already out. I think MoviePix is already out. Inverted is should be out, I think, at the end of this month. It's like a different way of doing distribution. You're not having to go buy things or whatever, you just can get it on this platform, you know, get like a Rev share model or whatever with them that is pretty sustainable, you know, as an artist, if you can hit those points that the audience loves. But even so, if you film it in both formats, you film it vertically and you film it. Now you put the vertical one online, get the audience data, and then now you have that to add to your package if you want to go try to sell this 60-minute pilot or this feature or something to like a streaming platform or something like that. That's kind of how I see. That's my big, my big hope. And that's my I would say my next swipe up is getting these two independent ones off the ground because I I believe in them so much and I already have, you know, all the pieces in place. I'm just just just nailing down um the finances, which we are like super close to to getting. So, you know, fingers crossed, you know, if anybody's interested, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Well, yeah, I mean, we're here. Um, if you feel comfortable, um, we're gonna have all your contacts in the show notes. If you want to just, is there maybe even now, is there a portal we can drop a little like coffee um Patreon or something contribute to your to your project or we can I will put one on my website just for this.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Buy a page of coffee.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Okay, perfect. And that'll be in the show notes as well. So last question right now in the film industry in particular, but just the world in general is at such a crossroads, particularly through your lens as a veteran, having worked with a number of administrations informing that for those people in our audience who really want to make the vertical reach. They want to go up to the next level, but they're kind of sitting on the fence. There's some fear, there's some hesitation, there's some very practical concerns like the rent or the diapers, or you know, very real nuts and bolts, mean potatoes issues, or fear, different sorts of fears. Like I always say that as individuals, most of the time, we don't have a comfort zone. The people around us often have a comfort zone where they feel comfortable with us being in. And is it okay to give yourself the permission to become someone that may make them feel uncomfortable? So the range, if you have the nuts and bolts, day-to-day, budgetary, and you have the more emotional, spiritual reinvention of the personal identity issue. So for those people who are really looking to make that shift, make that change, make the vertical reach, what would you do to encourage what would you say to encourage them?

SPEAKER_02 36:48

I think it really depends on like what part they want to play in the vertical space, right? Like what job they're going after, because there are different ways of kind of approaching it. I do know that there are a lot of people that are making ends meet with it right now, but it is demanding. So like if you are someone that's like directing, acting, producing, um, I mean, it's it's a lot of work, period, but you'll get a bigger chunk at the end of the project as far as a paycheck is concerned. This is the practicality of it right now. Or even like a DP, like also makes pretty okay, pretty okay money. And then there's uh everyone else that it varies, you know, it could be anywhere from like as low as I've seen as like 150 a day to like upwards of like 500 a day, depending. A lot of those people, they just stack these things, and so it's like back to back to back to back to back. They take a break on their own for like, you know, a week or a month, and then they come back and they go back to back to back to back to back. The benefits is that you do get to run your own schedule, but when you're working, you are fucking working. Like you are, it is fast, is relentless. There's a lot of sets that are still, you know, I believe the unions are coming because and I don't even know if it's gonna be the traditional unions that Hollywood uses, but there might be like a formation of something new that happens. Um, I can feel it in the air, that revolutionary energy. But there's a lot of sets that are still not safe, you know, they're not professional work environments. You have inexperienced people that are still being brought on in certain roles and stuff, uh, can make it a lot more difficult to navigate. And that's just speaking very real, you know, just want to be very upfront with everybody. Like if you're wanting to get into the space, like right now, that's where we're at. Um, but it's doable. I would say your best way of getting in, this is across the board. Um, if you're acting, you just audition, audition, audition, audition. You just keep auditioning. I'm like a madman. But for everyone else, it's find the friends that are in it, talk to them, show up to events, you know, shake hands, rub elbows, and know exactly what you want to do. Don't come in and be like, I wanna write, I want to direct, I wanna act, I wanna this, I wanna that. Like pick pick one for now and stick to it and just keep telling people that. Oh, I'm a writer, I'm a writer, I'm a writer, I'm a writer, or I'm a costumer, I'm a costumer, I'm a costumer, you know, like, and just keep telling people those things. Uh, I think that's your best way of getting a gig is just like once you're into like you're gonna kind of continue to get work because there are tons of these being made right now. Like this year, it's slowing down because of AI. Fortunately, I have directing friends that are losing jobs over it. Like, they're hired, and then like the next week they're told, Oh, this went into our AI pipeline. Yes. The last six months of this year, I don't know what that's gonna look like. Like, I do feel like the platforms are gonna go really hard on AI, and I'm hoping it'll burst with Western audiences. It's doing really well with Eastern audiences right now, so we'll see. Yeah, I mean, if that's if this is the path you want to try to get into, it would just be showing up and meeting people right now, reaching out to people that are doing it, seeing if you can get in, assist, you know, where you can, if they're looking for an assistant, emails, cold calls, DMs, whatever you gotta do. You know, do it now, do it now, because by the end of this year, I feel like we're gonna be very solidified on like what this looks like and what you know, what the core group is.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

And the moats will have formed around the castle, I think.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Yes, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Let me ask you this zooming out a bit outside of the vertical space. Let's say that I'm a um a chef or I work in a restaurant, and I'm working at my own restaurant. You know, I want to take that next step forward as a life thing. You said you're talking about networking, meeting people as a general life hack. How would you encourage those hesitating people to make whatever the vertical reach means for them?

SPEAKER_02 41:18

There have been um I would say more than a handful of people that, you know, have been doing film in various ways, commercial, music videos, TV, even independent film, like feature film. There are those filmmakers that went out, you know, by the skin of their teeth and made their own vertical. And that path is looking very different from like what would basically be the short film, you know, or the independent feature path. Yeah, it's only different right now because um there are people that have done like basically like the first 10 episodes or something, or like the eight episodes, which is good. You can like put it on YouTube or you can put it on your website in your reel, you know, you can like show, hey, look, I've done this thing. Even the independent platforms I know aren't super interested in like basically what would be the equivalent of a short film. So if you're gonna do it and you wanna try to make money back from it, you know, and make yourself sustainable and use this medium as a your form of storytelling, which is what I want to do. It's basically it to a place where I can green light myself. You just go for the whole thing. Like try to at least do like 45 pages in your script and yeah, and just commit. Ask, you know, get into that favor bank and you know, see if you can make it for dirt cheap. Because like that is the artist's dream, right? Is cut out the middleman, you know, and make what you believe in and get it out there and get it to audiences. And there's so many untapped audiences right now in this space. Eight billion. Yeah, yeah. Um, so do that, but also I think to make the transition as well is you kind of have to do both, which is what I'm trying to do, is meet the audience where they're at, you know, because that's the audience is watching right now. So you gotta kind of meet them where they're at, and then start to just weave in what is possible, you know, like the types of stories you want to tell, and just kind of like start to transition your audience or branch it out into this other space. It's tough. The independent track is probably harder than just like trying to get into like these studio guys because you're really putting it all on your own plate and it's like taking on a lot, but um but yeah, that is another way you could do it. And then there's like other tricks, like if you're specifically like looking to direct or um do cinematography or something like that, like take your reel that you already have and just cut it vertical. If you want to do it cheap, already have the stuff, and then just find the frame that works and um and cut your reel vertical, and that's the the cheaper way to do it as opposed to like doing something independent.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Paige. I'm so encouraged. You're amazing. And to the audience, remember if you're building something new or becoming someone new, please keep checking in with us. This is the vertical reach. And remember, just keep swiping up. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Vertical Reach Podcast. Enjoy the conversation. Make sure to subscribe so you never want to have a button. If it's part of the share story to next time.