Ep 16. AI, Brands & the Future of Vertical Drama: Bethany Thomson

What happens when the person integrating AI into an industry is also the person most worried about what it might replace?

Bethany Thomson has been sitting with that question all year. As Creative Lead at Sea Star Productions, she's spent the past year and a half helping build one of the UK's leading vertical drama studios — after landing in the space almost by accident, as a social media hire who'd never heard of microdramas before her first day.

In this episode, Bethany and Pauline dig into the AI conversation shaking up the vertical drama world: the flood of AI-generated titles coming out of China, why the UK and US are responding so differently, and where the line sits between adopting new tools and protecting the craft. They trace a surprising throughline from old-school filmmaking — avid editing suites, pencil-and-paper script notes — straight to today's phone-shot verticals, and make the case for branded storytelling as the format's next real opportunity, including why a $150K micro-drama series can outperform a single day of traditional commercial shooting.
Bethany also shares her own "next swipe up": moving from marketing into development, and helping brands find their place inside vertical storytelling.

This one covers a lot of ground — the future of AI in entertainment, the economics of branded microdrama, and what it actually takes to build a career in an industry that's still inventing itself in real time.

About Bethany Thomson

Bethany Thomson is the Creative Lead at Sea Star Productions, where she pioneers storytelling in the emerging microdrama world and works to advance the industry in the UK. With a background spanning locations, short films, marketing, and music videos, she now leads the business and marketing side of Sea Star Productions while supporting production processes that reshape how audiences engage with stories on mobile platforms. Passionate about the future of vertical dramas, she works to inspire the next generation of filmmakers to think beyond the traditional screen and into an industry that is constantly growing and seeking new creatives.

Connect with Bethany Thomson:
Sea Star Productions Instagram
Sea Star News Instagram
Sea Star Productions LinkedIn
Bethany Thomson LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everyone, welcome to the Vertical Reach Podcast. This is where storytelling meets strategy. I'm Pauline Gray. Each week I sit down with the creators, innovators, and voices shaping the world of vertical storytelling. Let's tell stories that connect. Good morning, everyone. Here we are back with the Vertical Reach Podcast. And first of all, welcome back. So glad you guys are back here with us again about the show for any newcomers. Vertical reach is that moment when you decide to extend upwards, physically, professionally, or emotionally to meet what exists above where you stand right now. When you just know in your heart, in your life that staying at the same level is just no longer enough. Vertical reach is the actual act of rising to meet higher, whether it's your body, your work, or your ambition. If you're a basketball player, you're saying the hoop's got to go one foot higher. And as a professional in media, film, television, or any part of the corporate world, you basically have decided I want the next level. And so in my show, The Vertical Reach, this podcast is about people who didn't just pivot careers, they changed altitude. This season focuses on filmmakers and creators entering the vertical micro drama space. This is usually part of a large integration or reinvention of themselves. So the goal is not to really have this polished hindsight, but to really document real-time transitions. And today in the guest chair, after hot pursuit for a year, I have an incredible thought leader in the space, regular panelist and speaker at global conferences, Ms. Bethany Thompson. Hello. Hello, Bethany. Bethany is the creative lead at Seesaw Productions, where she pioneers storytelling in the emerging micro drama world and works to advance the industry in the UK. Her background spans location, short films, marketing, music videos, you name it. And she now leads the business and marketing side of Seaar while supporting production processes that reshape her audience engage with stories on the mobile platform. Passionate about the future of vertical dramas, she works to inspire the next generation of filmmakers, and maybe even the past generation of filmmakers, quite honestly, to think beyond traditional screen and into an industry that is constantly growing and seeking new creatives. Today, she can offer us valuable insight into how vertical storytelling is integral to brand successful digital marketing strategy. So, Bethany, with that broad introduction, jump in and tell us more about yourself.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

Yeah, so that's me. That's what I do at Seastar. But yeah, I actually, it's funny being on this podcast because I didn't know vertical dramas existed until I joined SeaStar. So I have been working with them for about a year and a half now, maybe just over that. And I had no idea what they were when I first jumped in. I jumped in as a social media girl, and now I'm speaking globally and I meet lovely people like Pauline. So I feel very blessed to be a part of the industry and to know Pauline and just to be here. My main sort of goal with Seesaw is just to not destigmatize, but I'd say open up the industry and let people know that there's opportunity here. So part of what I do for that as well, what I've been doing a lot more recently is speaking at universities around the UK. So I actually just went back to speak at my old university to my old class with my tutor, and that was a fun experience. And also I spoke to the University of Bristol students, and we might actually be getting the first ever UK interns in at a vertical drama company and sort of like supporting talent right from the ground up. So that is very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Amazing. Bethany, did you know? I don't think you knew that Bristol's when I went to film school.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Is it? Which one did you go to? Did you go to the University of Bristol? University of Bristol.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

That's where I went to film. Yeah. That's where we're getting an off in Bristol. In Bristol. I thought it. No, no, I did a when I graduated undergrad in America, I won a Marshall Scholarship, which allows for two years graduate study in the UK. And I did my very first year at LSE. I'm very risk-avoidant. So I got a master's in politics, the world economy, which I use every day, clearly. And then I had one more year of funding. So I went to Bristol for film school because I felt safe enough with my LSE degree to explore my true passion, which is filmmaking. Brilliant. So I love Bristol and it's changed quite a bit, obviously. But amazing. We are alumni. Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

Tell me more. Tell me more. So yeah, when you did my introduction, it is quite a mishmash of things that I've been doing, isn't it? And you look at that and you're like, okay, Beth, why pick an avenue? But I think when you finish film school, like as a new creative and even as an established person working in the film television, I think everyone thinks it's steps that you have to do now. So like step up, another step up, and you step into this and step into this. Whereas I found that joining it with verticals, it's less of a step and it's more of a soup. So you sort of as soon as you stepped into it, you can elevate yourself and you can go so much further because you don't have to do it in the traditional sense and you can do so much more with it. Which is why I'm really keen to get these students in because I know what it's like to come with no connections or to come when you're a bit stuck and you don't know what the next step is and to give that opportunity. I think it's also really exciting that through verticals, you can learn about so many different parts of the industry and get experience in them. So things like development, commissioning, writing, anything like that. That's not stuff that I wanted to do in the first place, but through verticals, I went, oh, actually, I really like development. Like I love developing ideas. I love talking to writers, I like speaking at panels, and I like to meet people and do all this stuff. And I had no idea until I joined it. So I just feel very, very blessed to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

It's so true because I feel like you and I, now I know, are kind of bookends in a way. Yeah. Well, this is why I say this, because I very much believe there was a linear progression. You learned, you became qualified to, then you continue to. And that is, first of all, definitely very pre-digital social media perspective. There's definitely an ascension process that had to be honored and respected. And even if you were, say, like say a camera assistant, for example, who wanted to be a cinematographer, there's this term, I'm not sure if it even exists anymore, called you have to kill your mother. No, I haven't heard that term before. Because in order to become what we guessed the clapper loader, for example, if you saw it in that room, you had to move up, you had to literally slay the person who was hiring you consistently. You can't become a DP if you don't kill the DP.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

And now, however, because we're shooting with our phone, you don't have to so worry about progressing. And I'll tell you, as far as the bookending thing, get this, you'll never believe this. I can't I can't wait to see your face. I want to see your face so badly. You will not believe this. When I was at the University of Bristol, we took probably the first week or so in the film program, we our class took a field trip to the avid in town.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

We went to the avid in town. I don't know if anyone might know what an avid is, but an avid is was it still is a film editing system, but more I think I think it's less in use.

SPEAKER_05 8:00

It's less used now, but yeah, I'll know what you mean. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

But for the beginning, it was very much the gold standard sort of quantum leap of filmmaking, of post-production, I should say. So we, my class of 10 or 15, took a field trip to the avid in town. And as we were taking the field trip to the avid, we were told, of course, feel free to walk around the avid, but whatever you do, don't unplug anything from the avid because the person who knows how to plug it all back in is not available regularly. We have to get them in advance and schedule to come back and plug back in the avid. And then the next thing they said was to our class, believe it or not, someday many films will be edited using computers. You guys will anyway. The best part though, I love looking at your face. Any perspective, right? So then we, as then, of course, the cutting edge filmmakers at that time who were going to see the avid, we fully embraced the notion that yes, someday computers could play a part in editing films, for sure. But what we were sort of discussing amongst ourselves on the bus back to school was but how does the film get into the computer? Yeah, I mean, do we like do you like take the can of film?

SPEAKER_04 9:39

Yeah.

unknown 9:40

Put it in the computer.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Is there a slot for it? Like, how does it go?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

So yeah, so that so yeah, definitely. I mean, I love this because we're definitely bookending this University of Bristol emergence of digital cinema. It's all yeah. These are very interesting conversations we're having at that time. I'll have to get you in to speak to them. You can I would love that. I I'm gonna be in London in the fall. So definitely, I will definitely be brilliant for sure. You're trying to them for sure. But it's such a tell me more, tell me more.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

Well, I think it's weird actually hearing that because now you don't even need to put any film into things, you can just make everything on a computer, which is kind of scary, but you don't have to shoot anything, really. It's insane. But that's something that I think everyone's thinking about in the vertical drama world is the elephant in the room, which is a big fat elephant, the AI that everyone's thinking about.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

It's weird, it's weird coming from a film world as well, because you know you have to adapt being in the vertical world, but then you're also thinking about is this the right thing to adapt to? Are we doing the right thing? Like, what if it's a phase? Like, what if this is just happening? But you can't, if your bread and butter is production and then the people that you make production for stop production, you need something to help you out. That's that's what's been kind of the biggest hurdle for us this year, and for me, is like navigating that whole new technology. So I think you're gonna have to do it. I think looking at the stats for our industry and like what's happening, we're gonna have to do it. I just made LinkedIn post, which I'm gonna post. But it said that the Chinese version of TikTok, I think it's Doyun, uh, released 50,000 AI titles in March. That's more than six a year, and they did that in one month. Like, and that's wow, yeah. So for growth, and like if we're growing that way, you kind of have to grow with it. But I don't think 6,000 per day. Yeah, yeah. All AI generated or completely AI generated. And I mean, people are paying for them, which is why. I mean, and the demand is there, which is why. But I don't think that our industry just has to go that way. I think there's lots of different things that we can be doing within the vertical sort of world, which we're trying to do anyway.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Interesting, interesting because when I think about the Chinese model, you know, and I've never been to China, mind you, but I also think that they probably have different considerations because they are a communist country. And so I imagine with no expertise, there's a baseline income standard that whether you are employed or not, you will not fall below.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I mean, is there actually unemployment in a communist country?

SPEAKER_04 12:27

No idea. I'm curious. I'm really curious, you know. I mean and because the fear in the West is job loss. That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah, the fear is job loss. And so if there is no such thing as job loss in your economy, then it might be wise to make 12,000 films a day.

SPEAKER_05 12:54

Yeah. I mean, it might just be I mean it it's yeah, part of it is definitely monetary, isn't it? And if there's the demand there, and then if people they're able to pay for it, that's fine. But I do think creatively, even if you were guaranteed a a a salary as a creative, but you had to do it in a different, not even in a different way, but in a way that you didn't agree with creatively, I think that might be an issue. So like if you have a cinematographer and you say you can DOP for this entire AI micro drama, even though you're giving them an opportunity, it just might not be what they want to do. And they might say, actually, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna wait and I'm gonna see until something else comes up. Even if they need the money, they might be like, no, because people are very resistant, aren't they? So that's what I'm I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Absolutely. I think that while I respect the resistance, as someone once again, on a bookending perspective, I have definitely seen the arc of resistance. And what I did learn at LSC, which I retain, and I still say that like this is Pauline Gray's MBA. You don't gotta go to no Harvard Business School, no Stanford Business School, you're good. Listen to this one sentence. Three words capitalism always wins.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

So if you're yeah that's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

That's what I gotta know.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

No, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

And so it it it won in Russia always wins. You know, you know, I mean seriously, I mean I'm sure for example, for for you example, I'm I'm thinking about any you don't remember the fall of the Berlin Wall, personally.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

No, not at all. I was I didn't think I was alive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Exactly. I very clearly remember walking into my dorm room and my roommate whose mother was Czech German had just called her and told the Berlin Wall just fell. Wow. And I walk into the room and she goes, the Berlin Wall just fell. And so I was like, Oh, okay, you know. But it was these there's certain markers that prove my theory that capitalism always wins. So I say that to say, you know, as a filmmaking technician, I having witnessed resistance to technology, I will also say that technology always wins. Yeah, for sure. And so I remember very clearly for my own career, I am a script supervisor by trade. And for most of the professional script supervising, it was done by pencil and paper.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

You know, you wrote the notes. You can erase the notes.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

It was a tough job, wasn't it? Well, it is a tough job to do it that way as well, to be a script supervisor without any additional technology, and you can't all you have is the script and the pencil, and you're just like, right, let's let's crack this.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

That is tough. Actually, quite honestly, the funny thing is from a craft perspective, pencil and paper is actually the quickest, most efficient way to do the job. It really is. It really is, because actors are constantly changing what they do. I mean, the reason there's continuity is because there's really really is continuity.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

So you can just erase it you know, very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

However, from a technology perspective, being in that sort of bridgy gap from digital to analog digital, I always use computers because I'm a screenwriter. So there's a perfect, very simple transition to using to doing script notes digitally on a computer in Excel. I was always like self-influent, too. But there's heavy, heavy resistance.

unknown 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Like I'd say almost a war, I'd say almost a war, quite honestly, within survising community about transitioning to digital. And yeah, I'd say I was I'd say I'd pretty much say a war within the industry, within the craft. And while it made perfect sense to me to do it, and I said it's as inevitable, mind you. Yeah. But the key deal breaker for me, quite honestly, be it or not, was that as a screenwriter and also a director's pitch writer, mind you, I literally write a screenplay working a pitch on set between shots. Wow, yeah. And no one knew how to no one knew how to win over there. Secret. You know, secret, oh now you everyone knows now. Sounds like this is a no-brainer. This is two for one. Yeah. So so yeah, so and lo and behold, now I know one scripture advisor who still does things by hand, but she takes the screen grab with her laptop. Okay, yeah, and then creates a PDF. Then she's then she scans the notes, creates a PDF, and emails them.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

Okay, so she just she just digitalizes the very last bit. She does I guess she's she's sort of doing it. She's protecting, not protecting her craft, but she's protecting her way of working, but also she's adapting right at the last minute when she has no other choice but to go digital. I mean, it's because if everyone else is doing it and you're not doing any of it, you're like, she wouldn't have a job. So she she's still protecting the way she wants to work, but obviously she has adapted to the digital sort of way of doing as well. I think that's what's happening a lot with verticals. It's why all the platforms have gone, like micro drum platforms have gone vertical. No, gone vertical have gone AI because people want them, people, people love them, and they they earn money. They earn a lot of money. I mean, we earn like production, don't get me wrong, it earns a lot of money as well. I think it's just because it's new, is which is why it's being so popular. And it's quite a yeah, there's a massive, there's definitely a war, I'd say. I mean, would you say there's a bit of a war in the vertical world with the use of AI? Or do you think we're a bit more open with it? Because I've seen sort of mixed, mixed reviews. I think we're a little bit more open on both sides with AI and the vertical world.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

You mean we being the UK or we being the industry? Like the general industry. The UK is too small to talk about. I say this because I can only really uh speak for my comparison. Because living in America, I'm in LA right now, but having, as we know, we've been we knew each other from London, you know, I've probably been in the past calendar year on at least two, three continents and definitely in dialogue with Croatians, subcontinent, Indians. I mean, I pretty much had the opportunity to kind of tap into a global insight. Brilliant, yeah. It's been very lucky. And I do find that America as a nation, we are most resistant to AI, period.

SPEAKER_05 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

To the best of my knowledge, I don't track this, but are there like margin protests against AI data centers in the UK?

SPEAKER_05 20:29

No, there's not. No, I mean we only have, I think we have one somewhere, but I don't know. I think what we have one in Slough, and that's it. But there's not been any protests or anything like that. But I guess it's a massive thing over there, isn't it? Because they're pretty much everywhere and they guzzle so much water.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Absolutely, absolutely. So, which is a problem we will very soon have to address as a nation. But I'm always startled when I go abroad at the extent to which the rest of the world has just, I wouldn't even assumed it. It's just like it's a given. It's almost like the internet is a given.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

Yeah. I think the technology is just it's more about the tech and less about the I don't know, it's not as politically charged over there. It's more just like the opportunities that it brings and not the stuff that it might not support. If it's providing jobs and if it's if it like this is the thing, it provides jobs and it provides more infrastructure and different things and people can train in it now. Like a lot of our VFX artists that we know or that I spoke to at different conferences, that you ask them about it, and they're like, Oh, it's kind of fine because we're just training in that now. Like we just we can do the VFX stuff, but we're just training in that as well. So then we have it. Yeah, it's definitely two sides of a coin which are very, very different, the sort of views on it.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

So yeah, yeah. I have a close German girlfriend, she lives in Hamburg, and her company, a third of every day of the marketing teams workday is learning agentic AI. So they have like a whole training a training thing every yeah you must learn these agentic AI skills as part of your job. Okay. I know it's batting an eyelash. Yeah. Whereas I think that in the US there's this resistance to the concept itself. Which is noteworthy. So to go back to the vertical filmmaking micro drama space, there's definitely a resistance. I was meeting some girl some with some girlfriends for lunch, I guess it was Sunday a few days ago.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

And and a lot of the conversation was about forgivable AI integration.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

And it was a sense of like she had there's certain things that we knew could not be achieved with the budget without AI integration or a fusion or a mixture. So we we decided that that if I was used in that way, the filmer could be then forgiven having used AI.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

And that's not a conversation I'll ever have in London. I knew that.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

No.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Never you know so I'm curious what do you see the what do you see as the future?

SPEAKER_05 23:21

I don't know. It's weird the whole forgiveness thing as well, isn't it? That like there is a point where you can use it and then a point where you have to work to be forgiven for using it. But I mean what's the difference between using it to do one thing and using it to do the other thing? Like then you have to get into the logistics. Like okay so how many times did you do this thing? How many gallons of whatever like I don't know but um yeah industry in the UK is really is quite booming now. It's it's really fun to see it grow. It's fun to see lots of different people coming here to shoot. So cheer TV they're like trying to be like the yeah they're like trying to be the A24 verticals and they they recently shot here which is very exciting because it shows that people are still shooting and they're still coming over and they see the value in it which is great. But I do think that especially in the UK and in LA as well like where we both are our real strength is to show the value in what we do and like our locations. I mean for you guys it would be like your actors and your writers and your like your specialist people you have to do verticals. Whereas here it's like we have I don't know for Seastar we have like a very high end crew that all came from film and television. We have the best equipment we've got amazing locations I think it's you've got to shout those things out to get because the the pie when I first joined and making verticals was huge and now it's shrunk a bit so you just need to really find your niche now I think it's maybe the industry has got past the point of like it's booming everyone's getting into it everyone's getting into it and now people are actually in it and they're thinking like okay what can we do next it's not a case of getting in it's a case of like utilising the format and and I really think that brands need to utilize the format especially with that their marketing I mean brands they're all about storytelling now and building community and we're already doing it in 916 on social in a high quality way which is why like they should just get they should get involved. So I think that's probably the next move in the UK I think at least the the next move will be more branded storytelling. And if they go to microdramas that's great but if it's just narrative 9 by 16 storytelling as well that is something that the vertical community can really hop on because we do that very well. So very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

I love that I mean because I I feel like as a brand storyteller you know myself I've written for Loftanza, Ramoa luggage UNS or entities I should say what I think the vertical microdama business model has to offer that I'd love your insight is that once again capitalism always wins and you want to like buy low sell high right and you want to invest a little and earn a lot and so I mean it's all the ROI returning your investment no matter which way you go.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

And so if you as a brand can say okay whereas if in Los Angeles or any any market you know one day of shooting a commercial costs at least $150,000 easily. I mean when I when I started working commercials we had a budget for a one day shoot that was exactly 100 grand and we went over we literally went just a little bit but we knew we could because it was really you know and and so but whereas if you as a brand now can say that for $150 which is kind of the pockety budget for micro drama verticals you can now have an entire series utilizing your brand either range from product placement on a smaller scale to go to the narrative as part of the storytelling you can then reduce your risks substantially and have a nimble crew nimble locations where you know you can really move and maneuver in a way that traditional filmmaking could be quite cumbersome. Yeah you know and and the worst thing that could happen at the end of the day was you might break even on your investment. You might sell $150,000 worth of the product. That's literally the worst thing could happen and I remember when I was my very first director's pitch that I wrote was for Glade air crushing yeah it was glade cashmere woods that was that was a fragrance and it was shot in prog. I think it was shot in progress but that was a 30 second spot and they ended up having to literally stop airing the commercial because they ran out of the product. Yeah amazing yeah I mean it was it was amazing it was he's an amazing director and just all everything just was amazing circumstantial but yeah they literally ran out of the product on the shelf so the worst thing could happen for a brand storytelling business model is that you sell maybe 100 products and break even what was neat and so yeah I just I see it as a gold mine. From a creative absolute gold mine from a creative standpoint for sure.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

Absolutely I mean not like for creatives who can who can utilize like a brand's voice and then do it in a micro drama format it's really exciting. But for brands the way I think about it it's not even about the budget. It's like oh it's only going to cost me 150 or 250 episodes. It's the spending power that that audience has that you're targeting. There's a crossover between the micro drama audience and a branded audience say you're like I don't know you you sell pink wine or like skin care whatever I see that as a big crossover market for the people who watch verticals. As a brand yay you can spend 150k or 300k or whatever for a 50 episode micro drama series fantastic you've got a lot of bang for your bark but it's not about that part of it. I mean it's great for the creatives working in it and we get the opportunity to storytell through a brand but really you need to look at the spending power. If you're a brand that has a lot of crossover with a micro drama audience my God they have spending power like they have four pounds an episode spending hour for four pounds a minute is like what they're paying just to watch your thing. Like it's like the the golden pear affair I don't know if that was behind a paywall I think it is behind a paywall it is going to paywall it is going to pay a wall and that's on their own they've made their own website for that series like PG that's their own microdrama platform for the golden pear affair. People are paying four like two or three pounds an episode just to scroll through it and you're also advertising a product at the same time so you get to build community and you get to also just I think that's amazing. Even because I think storytelling wise in the vertical world like genres narratives they're all going to evolve the storytelling will evolve naturally because the format is gaining traction but the power with brands isn't to be a part of that level up it's to level up your audience like grab the vertical community because it's such a circular community as well the vertical like audience if the actors in one thing they'll follow them anywhere like any amount of time like even if they don't if it's like some sort of vampire thing and they they hate vampires they'll go but the thingy's in it so I'm gonna go I'm gonna go watch it. So there's a lot of power there. There's unutilized power I think for people that people haven't clocked onto yet in the vertical drama world.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Absolutely I mean when I think about I had a conversation with a woman another amazing thought leader in this space she's actually on the show but she mentioned to me that in the Philippines for example two things are interesting happening that when you rent an apartment in the Philippines in parts of Southeast Asia they first of all they always come furnished for the most part but many apartments either one no longer have a television set in them as part of the package okay we know they're not going to watch their television per se they're gonna watch their phone for entertainment secondly if there is a television it may well be a vertical television. Wow oh my goodness and the third part is in the Philippines as a snapshot mind you people are actually taking to the point of purchasing power spending power people are normalizing taking a second job in order to pay for their vertical spend.

SPEAKER_05 31:57

Oh my goodness yeah I think that's probably the the biggest thing that really jumped out at me is like oh think about it like to your point three four pounds a minute you know but it's the same there's no other media like there's a never in the history of film or television has anyone ever even thought about doing that. So it's really it like imagine being like oh no I need to do a second job so I can download like so I can get go to cinema a few more times. It just doesn't happen does it but it's because they're not do you think that's mainly attention spans now or I don't know like why is that it's just the way they're formatted isn't it these verticals the way that they're they storytell is that's their main draw it's not anything monetary really I mean because movies can hook you in but then you're not gonna pay another 20 and 20 and 20 for because you haven't got the time you haven't got three hours at a time yeah yeah or if you like binge watch like people when they were binge watching Stranger Things that's your day gone like your entire day is gone then absolutely and I mean I remember myself you know like it's very rare quite honestly as a writer as someone immersed in structure and backstory and the that the craft of writing that something can't actually hook me for that long.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

I mean because first of all on the one hand as a scrip supervisor it has to be so flawless in the continuity for me to be like for me not get distracted. Yeah or else you're just working like wait that tie what what is tie you know what the heck happened yeah and I and I most of the time I can overcome that then like as a narrative storyteller I'm always kind of like okay so they're seeding that plot point now. I see them I see I see what you're doing. You see you know and I'd say in recent history big shout out to have we seen zero zero zero? Have I seen uh I think it's zero zero zero zero zero zero no I haven't it's actually I think based off a journalism article okay but essentially it tracks one cocaine shipment as it goes all around the world oh my gosh and and every you see how every country intersects with one cocaine shipment from Italy to Morocco to Los Angeles to there's not a single continent except for maybe Antarctica that one shipment does intersect with and the storylines are intersecting narrative overlapping I mean everyone's interlinked in this global drug trade event but it's six episodes and I stayed up all night and I could not stop.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

I thought I was I was I was I was it was referred to me in fact by the same director who did the Glade commercial mind you he said you gotta see this I said okay so I said I'll just pop it in bags under my eyes next day I can't stop it was like it was literally I feel like I was actually doing the cocaine myself because I because I withooked you know like with vertical what's great is that you know it's quick satisfaction quick quick timer instant gratification all the things that narrative storytelling in my opinion should should meet yeah yeah at least for it it should be there should be an option for it rather than just I feel like right now it's they're they're polar opposites but there's nothing in the middle right now which does sort of what microdramas do with their narratives and the payoff that these don't like traditional television doesn't do fast enough. I think also why they're so popular is because they're they're shot in a social format where you're used to doom scroll like you doom scroll you're just doom scrolling on your phone but verticals they offer you a bit more value and it's it's like you get the you get the buzz from scrolling on social media but you're getting that value because you're like completing something. You're like oh I've completed a narrative I've done something I haven't just sat and scrolled for an hour looking at nothing. Like I think that's why they're also quite popular. But yeah I just don't know there should be a definite in-between between television and verticals. There's just something here which maybe is where the major streamers and networks will come in and then they'll have that digital like first narrative solution.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah I love the cathartic element it's sort of I mean it's usually I guess you would say like a quicker journey to catharsis.

SPEAKER_05 36:36

Yeah for sure yeah because we all want the happy ending but it's the happy ending occurring much faster than normal you know that's it so you get that feeling you're instantly like oh brilliant and then if you want to have that feeling again you can do it's addictive because then you can just keep having that feeling over and over and over again. You don't have to wonder what's going to happen or do a drawn out thing if you don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

A shorter journey to catharsis and the ability to have another catharsis within the same day or same couple hours. And what I'm also realizing too is that you can literally have your catharsis on the tube on the way to work.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

Yep. You don't have to have it it's not a relaxing thing that you do in the evening when you get home you can have it on your lunch break which is kind of nice I mean to be able to storytelling give people the opportunity to have those moments more frequently is quite nice. Don't have to work for it. I mean but is there is there almost like a beauty in having to work for it or having to spend that time I don't I don't know and also maybe they're not yeah because they're quite ridiculous storylines sometimes. I wonder if sometimes it's not the that bit at the end it's just the stuff throughout which keeps you hooked and keeps you there and you you end up finding it in different ways or not in the way that the storyteller originally intended you to yeah I love that let me think about that.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

So as we wrap up here I'll kind of could talk all day I can't wait to see when I when I get to London next bit. Are you coming to Content London do you think I'm definitely coming yes the contest which I attend is still up in the air. Okay let's see let's see I can't wait though it's an amazing offer. Let me ask you Bethany what is your next swipe up what do you see for yourself?

SPEAKER_05 38:23

I think I would like to do more development so I would love to do more branded content and develop ideas for brands whether that be creating whole campaigns or writing scripts I've had a go at writing vertical scripts they're very fun but I don't know if the time and the actual just I don't think I could take it if someone was like cut that out cut that out cut that out not because I wouldn't want to but because I'd be like who's gonna replace it? How am I gonna do this? So I think I'd like to experiment more with writing but I think definitely the next up for me is doing some stuff in development with SeaStar with brands. That would be fantastic and we've had yeah it would just be really fun to have that opportunity and do that next. So Bethany Thompson what is your next swipe up my next swipe up is that I would love to step into development with vertical dramas but in the branded space. So whether that be creating concepts a bit like you do Pauline I want to be a Pauline. So whether that's creating concepts and then getting writers in like Pauline or writing scripts writing concepts finding audience crossing I think what I have is a good fit in the vertical world and a really good understanding of the audience. And then I came from marketing and I think if I could bring those two together and match those audiences it would be great. I'd also love to write a micro drama script I did have a go at writing one and I got about 10 episodes into it pretty pretty fun pretty exciting I liked it but I don't know if I could do 50 episodes so maybe we'll try and finish that as well that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Well thank you so much I'm so excited yeah definitely brands are the next horizon or the horizon and uh we should become a joint maybe evangelical team yeah we'll stand on the street corners of the circus with our little vertical Bibles and who knows join the movement salvation here. But so we'll wrap up and thank you so much Bethany you're amazing I'm so glad you're connected um and to my audience you know remember if you're building something new or becoming someone new this is the vertical reach and absolutely matter what keep swiping up. Have a great day thank you so much bye. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Vertical Reach Podcast. If you enjoyed the conversation make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. If it sparked something for you be sure it's called storytellers. Until next time let's have storytelling