Light Duty Podcast
Just two friends that decided to start a podcast. Discussing success, failure and nonsense.
Light Duty Podcast
LIGHT DUTY PODCAST #9
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In this episode, Ryan Williams shares his journey from Navy SEAL to successful entrepreneur, highlighting lessons learned, the importance of team, and navigating the challenges of building brands. Discover insights on resilience, leadership, and adapting in business and life. Ryan shares his journey from Navy SEAL to successful entrepreneur, emphasizing the importance of customer satisfaction, feedback, and building a strong network.
This episode is brought to you by Core Medical Group. Course dedicated to helping veterans and high performers optimize their health through hormone replacement and preventative care. Right now, listeners of the Light Duty Podcast get their comprehensive blood work for just $199. That's $100 off. If you have insurance, your cost drops to just $99. So check them out at Core MedicalGRP.com or shoot them a DM on their social media at CoreMEDHRT and let them know that you heard about them through the Light Duty Podcast to get your discount. All right, guys, welcome back to Light Duty Podcast, episode eight. We got a guest, Ryan Williams, here. Ryan, how you doing? Good, man.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for having me. Excited.
SPEAKER_00Glad to have you here. And then, you know, Evan is not here today, so we got my boy Danny filling in. Danny. What's up, everybody? He's a nobody. Don't worry too much about him. He's too here to look pretty. Nod, man. But uh, dude, uh, I'm glad you made the trip. Uh for most of you don't know, Ryan um is a friend of mine that goes back years. But uh before that, you know, we we uh were business um partners in a sense, and we did some work together, um, but developed a personal relationship and all in all, really awesome guy. And I wanted to get him here uh for you all um and just hear about his story, uh Prior Navy Still Guy, entrepreneur uh stuff going on, and uh just overall just a good dude and and started something new too. Uh he's got his own podcast, Liberty Risk. Uh how's that going?
SPEAKER_02Thanks, man. Uh well, finally I get to explore all the mistakes that I've made and all the funny stories that I somehow finangled out of, and uh other people find them funny too. And we just drink and have a good time and shoot the shit. So this is the perfect segue.
SPEAKER_00Episodes are wild, man.
SPEAKER_02It's been a good time, man. I'm I'm learning a lot. We are not from the podcast space at all. So we're still we're just I think we celebrated our one year anniversary like two weeks ago. So we're still like babies in the space, but man, I'm learning something new every day. And but it it's rewarding, dude. It's fun. You get to like touch people in a new way. That sounds really bad. You get to you get to impact people in a new way.
SPEAKER_00First thing came to mind when you said that.
SPEAKER_02I don't know that I don't know if impact sounds much better. Um, but no, you get to you get to see the stories and mistakes that you've made, and then getting the feedback from other people, and then them sharing their stories and how us being open and honest about our shortcomings and and the things that we did that you know, we fell on our face and makes them feel okay falling on their face. They don't feel alone. They're like, dude, thank you for sharing this, because I was going through this. And if you guys can go through this and make it through and talk about it openly, it makes me feel like I can get through this too. So it's it's been really rewarding in a way that I had no idea what to expect, but that's been like one of my favorite parts about it, other than just getting drunk with my friends and having fun. Hey, that's always a plus. It's always a plus, dude. Thanks for having me out.
SPEAKER_00We hear the same thing. We had Cody Alfred on here. Oh, he's such a G man earlier. And yeah, dude, he's a super good dude. And you know, the same thing, like what you're talking about, like stuff that you've gone through and whatnot. And and Cody, dude, he just he takes all the armor off and he thinks himself super vulnerable and he shares the stories, and it it you know, it really resonates with people. So I I mean I definitely understand what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he's he's raw dog in life, bro. He's broadcasting the whole way. I love it. I don't think there's anybody more authentically raw than Cody Alfred. He's just like, this is my life. I'm fucking running it. Come run with me and let's have a good time and learn something.
SPEAKER_00Just no fucks has turned up with that, man.
SPEAKER_02I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's good.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, man, so tell us a little bit who you are, man. Like, what what made you go into the SEALs, like Navy? So, like when you joined the military, was SEALs the goal, or how did that happen?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I dropped out of high school. I went to five different high schools in three different states. I didn't graduate any of them. I dropped out of high school halfway through my senior year because I went to this like pre prep school at the last year in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And there's like 20 kids in the graduating class. And I'm coming from California, and at first they thought I was like cool because I'm from California. Then they realized I'm not cool, then they kind of shunned me. I'm like, dude, fuck these guys. So I transferred to the public high school. I went there for a quarter, transferred to the public high school for a quarter, but they still wanted their full year's tuition, which is like 50 grand or something. I grew up like super poor, like on welfare. Single mom on welfare my whole life. Um, and then my mom decided she was tired of being poor and decided to write her own books. And now she's um really like big in her niche author. Wow. And so she got a little bit of money. And so she, I think she kind of felt bad that I was her firstborn. She couldn't like do anything for me. She's like, I'm gonna give you this this prep school. I'm gonna spend a lot of money in this prep school, which I fucking hated, bro. And so I went there. I'm like, these guys are assholes. So I transferred to public high school, and it was dope. It's actually better education, cool people, big school. And but then the prep school still wanted my mom to pay for the full year's tuition. It's like 50 grand or something. I'm like, because I I found this out because I went to go get my uh semester's grades. And they're like, uh, well, this is all incomplete because your prep school didn't release your grades. And I'm like, I'm not gonna go ask my mom to pay the whole 50 grand so that I can get my you know. How long were you at the prep school? A quarter. And you in and it was for one year? For years, like 50 grand, yeah. One year? Yeah. Something like that. I don't know. It was a lot of people. Yeah, it was a lot. It was it was a weird school, man. Um so I'm like, dude, I'm not gonna ask my mom to pay 50 grand. So I'm like, well, what happens if I don't pay this? Like, well, you have to come back and redo half of your senior year over again. I'm like, well, I'm not doing that. Well, okay. So I just dropped out. But it's funny because I had no intention of joining the military. I remember the principals trying to talk me out of it. He's like, Well, you know, you'll never be able to join the military if you don't have your high school diploma. I'm like, dude, fuck that. I don't care. I'm not joining the military. So I mean it's funny how life works out. So I dropped out of high school at 17 and I think I worked like at a uh I was a busser at a whole bunch of restaurants because I didn't I didn't want the responsibility of being a waiter, bucking up people's orders. That member of the specials. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I'll just be a busser and like slam coffee behind the scenes. I was like doing push-ups in the in the buster station, everything. Wearing a schmedium shirt. And so I uh uh was a busser at some of these places and then decided I was gonna go to I forgot if I went to Habasu or Mammoth first, but I went to one of those places first at 17. Moved out. Oh, Havisu. I went to Habisu first, was a busser at this place Shagruz for a while, got bored of that, went back to my dad's house in Washington and then uh got bored of that, and then was gonna try to go to uh did I say Mammoth or Habisu? Mammoth first. Yeah, Mammoth First. So I was gonna try to go to Habisu after that and try to go on try to get on the Pro Circuit for Freestyle Jet ski at the time. It was very low bar at the time. This is 95, so I was like very fucking low bar. I did not see that one coming out. Okay. And uh so I took my jet ski out there, well, my dad's jet ski, but I didn't have a trailer. I had like a little single cab Zuzuzu pickup truck, and so I couldn't, and I had no friends, so I I had to like back it in and pull it out by myself, and that didn't happen. I think I went like one time. I'm like, fuck this shit. So me and a buddy, I eventually made a friend there, and we pulled it up in my second-story apartment, and that was my couch for like the whole time I lived there. I had lawn furniture, plastic plates. I used to make the tuna surprise, which was when you're living on your own, you know, it's like a two-bedroom place and I'm a buster. So I think it was like 400 bucks. This is 96, I think, 96, 97. And uh yeah, I make tuna surprise. Like a whole bag of rice was like 75 cents, and then a can of tuna was like I think 75 cents too. And I just pour the tuna and the rice on there with mustard, and that's tuna surprise. And I lived on that for like a year, and then I was like, dude. Well, as shredded as you can be, like I think I was 18 at the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you don't you don't have no fat on you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then I was like 185, and uh I was like, dude, what am I doing with my life? You know, like I wasn't man with snowboard bum for years, fun, but it wasn't go anywhere. And then I was like, I'm the jet ski bum for a year, wasn't going anywhere. Uh I did a stripping gig one time. No, it's kind of funny. Yeah, I made like 200 bucks in an hour. I'm like, this is great, bro. And then I realized like that's not that's not what I want to do. Um so I was like, dude, what do I want to do with my life? Sorry, we should have had him for the hotline. He would have been perfect. Yeah, yeah. Did you see the hotline? No, we've made no is a bulb of G shrink. We'll have to bring that up and show you the thing. All right, all right, cool. Um, so I moved back. I I was trying to figure out what to do. So I moved back uh to my mom's place in Santa Fe, and I was just trying to figure out like, dude, I'm almost 19 at the time. I'm like, dude, what am I gonna do with my life? Like, who am I as a man? Who am I as a person? Like, where do I fit in the world? Which I think is a very, excuse me, very normal conversation that every man has himself, especially at that age. And so I was like, dude, I figured it was it was easier for me to start at the hardest thing and then scale back. Because the amount of work that you have to do to start at small hard things and then move up, the scale of work under that curve is like, I'm a math guy, I like data. So like the scale of work involved in that is a lot. So I was like, I'll just start at the hardest thing I can find. And if I don't make that, I'll do the next hardest thing, you know, or whatever. So I was like, I just got on the internet in '96 or seven. I'm like, what's the hardest thing you could do? And it's like, be a Navy SEAL or climb Mount Everest. So I was like, well, I don't have 50 grand to climb Mount Everest, so I'll look into the steel seal thing.
SPEAKER_00And this is obviously that wasn't never a thought in your mind.
SPEAKER_02I never I never thought anything about the military at all. None of my family was military, had no, was never been never been very patriotic or religious or anything. My life is very different now, but at the time, yeah, I was just uh trying to figure out life and and what I want to do with myself and and who I was and how I fit in the world. And so I was like, okay, I'll look into this Navy SEAL thing and I started to research it and read books and all this stuff, and I got into it. I'm like, bro, these guys sound badass. And now that I am when I know them, like, well, this we're not that badass, trust me. But the branding is always great. And so it's like, okay, and I really respected those guys a lot, and I wanted to respect myself as much as I respected those guys. So I was like, okay, I'll I'll try this out. So got a little um warning order prepped, and then um went through, and and luckily there is quite a bit of luck involved and uh made it class 219 and 90, graduated 98.
SPEAKER_00And um graduated SEALs from 98. Yeah, yeah. You went straight into boot camp straight to need to SEALs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, at the time you had to have a because SO rating, which is a SEAL source rating, or the SEAL rating wasn't a thing until like 2005. So at the time you had to get a rating, which in the Navy is like your job in the Navy. And I chose aviation ordinance man because it was in Florida on the beach, and I was I would I was like, oh, I can go run on the beach and prep. Smart. So I'd like to load a C back up with my like, you know, boondockers and like go run on the beach, like just you do all the stupid shit that you think is gonna like stay hard. And it really doesn't. I mean, I guess it helps, but like it's it's very like old school. Some of that stuff had to help you prepare though, yeah. Yeah, I think it just made me think to myself, because I I was always running, I'm like, can't stop, won't stop, can't stop, won't stop. That's all I would say in my head to myself the whole time running. Yeah, no, I I do not run. I think I I ran a mile today, and I'm like, oh boy, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh yeah. That's what I stick to like just like a mile, maybe three times a week, is what I shoot for now.
SPEAKER_02It's more than me. That was the first time I ran a mile in a couple months ago.
SPEAKER_00So you joined the Navy and you did this MOS at first?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I did uh Aviation Ordinance Man. I came in on October 23rd, 97. I graduated BUDS October October 23rd, 98. Shit. Yeah, so one year um lucky enough to make it through. I think our class had like 155 dudes, and we started. And then out of those, we had I think 14 or 15 originals. Our class was like 45 dudes, but they they roll people back at certain points. But there's a lot of luck involved. I was not a star performer.
SPEAKER_00I was like middle of the road, like not a stud by any means, but you know, yeah, but you I mean, you've done it worked out, you know, something like a lot of people achieve.
SPEAKER_02I prepped as hard as I could, and I mean everybody has their own story for doing that or any kind of crucible, whether it's Marine Corps or Rangers or Green Brays or whatever. Like I went into it, and I was an instructor for a long time too, so I got to see it from that point later. And there's always those guys like, I'll die before I quit. And I always used to tell the guys, like, as an instructor, I'm like, man, there's a whole lot more helmets under the bell than there are dead bodies, bro. Like, I know you think that, but like, we'll see how you feel on like Wednesday Hell Week when you know you're all chafed up and it's cold and wet and nasty. Um, but I went into it, it's like I prepped as hard as I could, and I felt like I was I was hoping that what I was willing to give to the program was if I was lucky, just more than the program was gonna ask me. And that's how that's how it worked out. And so it was it was really fun, man. I got a lot. Um, it wasn't any for any patriotic reasons or anything like that. I was before 9-11, so I just wanted to see if I could do it. And uh, but once I got to the team, that shifted because I got to see these guys. I didn't grow up with my dad, so I had no like male influences in my life growing up. So I did not understand like sarcasm or irony or guy humor at all. I had like no sense of humor, so I had to like develop a sense of humor. You were getting butthurt every day, weren't you? No, I didn't understand I didn't understand. I was saying, like, you're like, seriously, you're talking about I just thought everything was serious all the time.
SPEAKER_03Did you have the siblings or you might not have to?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I have a half brother and a half sister. They're each four years younger than me. Okay, you kind of were like the only child. Yeah, but it was uh I haven't talked to them in like probably 15 years. Yeah. They're not bad people. I just they're just kind of living on my mom's coattails, and yeah, they're just NPCs, dude. I don't really like them, and they don't like me, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_03I only asked because you said you didn't have the you know paternal influence. So sometimes having a couple brothers helps out too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I did have one of my best friends growing up. His dad was kind of like my dad. He's like the coach for the national champion rugby team at the time. And I kind of learned like through osmosis from him, like how to be a man. And man, uh team bass party, but holy shit, rugby players know how to party, bro. They had some funny stories, especially when you're like, you know, 14 years old, and you're seeing like, I remember one time uh we went camping with them to their the the old boys club is like I think it's like over 35 or something like that. And so which and he was 40, which seems super old when you're 14. Now that I'm 48, it's like it's still still up. Uh but they we went in their RV down to Santa Barbara, and it's all this like a national championship. So all these guys are camping out, and they're having this party. My my buddy Colby and I are camping in this little tent outside, and we're like peeking through the zipper, you know, looking out there, and they got this barbecue, and they had sent one guy to get like they give him some money, get like cocaine and hookers, and he like somehow like didn't get the he he he fucked it up somehow, and the hookers they got back were like gross and disgusting. So, like, bro, just get these girls away from us. So they ended up like having a naked congo line. They're like porky pig in it, they had no pants on and just t-shirts, and they had a congo line around the bonfire. It's all dudes, bro. It's like the military, it's all dudes, and they do this congo line playing music, and they got one hand on the guy's shoulder in front of them, and the other hand's having a beer, and they're just prancing around having a good old time. And then uh my buddy Colby's dad, Peter, looks over and he sees that like his son and his friend are like watching him. He's like, Oh shit, this dong's out. So he goes, he's like, What am I gonna do? Wear my pants. So he goes over to the barbecue and like makes himself a tinfoil diaper out of the tinfoil and just he's like, oh fuck it, and just keeps partying. Uh they they had this thing, uh, take different teams had different things. So like one team had to take the plunge so they had a plunger that they actually used. So they win or lose a game, they just take they'd pour beer in and then take a plunge or shoot the boot, they'd pour it in into one of the boots they used on the game. Call that entry beer. Yeah, yeah. It's those guys know how to party, man. There's some wild stories. That's it's it's very gross, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I want to jump back to like your time, you know, going through uh you know, buds and all that stuff, whatever. Was there like a time that you thought, I'm gonna quit? Like I'm gonna ring that bell.
SPEAKER_02My very first day. Really? Yeah, that was the only time I thought about quitting though, because I had brainwashed myself so much by reading all the books and like kind of maybe it helped that I didn't have any male influences, so I thought like this is what man stuff do, the man stuff do, this is what men do, this is man stuff. And so I get there and I'm like, and it's kind of like it's not the Marine Corps like shark, it's the shark attack you guys have where all the Marine Corps instructors come in and they do like the big yell at you thing.
SPEAKER_00Um, that's every day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it was it wasn't like that, but it's when you check in, it's pretty chaotic. Oh, you're talking about like when they come off the bus, like when you yeah, so you all check in at different times, but then they'll get you in a group, and then like, hey, you all got to check in, you're all gotta do something together, you're all in your whites. I'm like, oh, cool, we go do this. I had no idea what to expect, and everybody's yelling. This is the first time. Maybe you got boot camp experience, but that's kind of like you expect that, but I don't know what to expect, and they're all yelling. I'm like, and also I'm seeing I'm like 185 pounds, I'm not a stud. And I'm seeing these like D1 athletes, like guys who like compete in the Hawaiian Iron Man, guys who like legit studs. And I'm like, bro, these guys are way better shaped than me, run way faster than me, way more push-ups, way more qualified. And I'm like, dude, what the fuck am I doing here? Like, maybe I should quit. Maybe I should go out to the fleet and get stronger or faster and then come back. And I was like, shit, dude, maybe I don't belong here. But I told myself, I was like, okay, I'm gonna give it a week. And if I still feel like this the end of the week, then I'll quit and go do something else, um, or come back or whatever. And uh, but once we got into the training and we got into it, I was like, oh, this is blog PT. I've read about this. This is fucking cool. I mean, it sucks, but like it's kind of cool when you're going to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00You're living what you've been reading about. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I was like, oh, this is fucking cool. And the program, yeah, and the program is so highly designed, you don't realize it when you're a student, because like they don't tell you this. But as later on as an instructor, I realized that like it is very tightly regimented and it works too, because like right at the point where you're like, bro, this is really sucking, and people are dropping. They're like, okay, next evolution, put the logs down. You're like, okay, next thing. Um, so it was just it was just a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00Do they do that? Because like they they need to push you all to a certain limit to see who drops, and then when they get to a certain percentage of the class that remains, they know, okay, let's let's take it to the next, you know, segment. Team building, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a lot of it is team building. It's all intentional, but you don't you definitely don't feel like that when you're doing it. It just feels like they're just riding you and you just kind of like along for the ride. And but I was enlisted too, so it's like you don't have a lot of responsibility. I mean, it's probably way harder going through as an officer because like you, I mean, you really got a highlight on to you at that point. Everything's your fault. They're really messing with you. But as a, I think it was an E3 or something, I'm like, dude, I'm invisible, bro. As long as you're not like head of the pack or below the like the last, you're like, you just run it and you just do the the the bare minimum which required of you. And I've rarely failed shit. I was never first, but I rarely failed. I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm meeting the standards. So that's that was my whole experience there. It was it was a lot of fun. I mean, it sucked, but it's it's like when you suck, it something sucks, but you're going through it with your boys. It's kind of like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Would you do it again? Would you change anything?
SPEAKER_02Oh, looking back, man, I mean, I made so many mistakes, but I think it it all kind of works out. It all kind of works out the way it's supposed to. And there is there is a lot of luck too. Um like I said, you don't really feel it or know it when you're going through it as a student. But when I was instructor for a long time, because I was I was an instructor for for a while, I held the longest uh consecutive instructor. I it's not a title, but it's like a dubious honor of being the longest consecutive instructor in the history of naval special warfare. Because I I taught third phase from 2004 until 2008 when I got out. And then I took a job as a DOD uh civilian instructor at SQT, which is a follow-on pipeline after BUDS. And I taught from 2008 until 2016. So that's what is that, 12 years, something like that. So I was an instructor from every class from 252 until 318. And um, so I got to see a lot of patterns developing a lot of what's going on. So I I I got to see a lot of like uh the psychology of it. And it's just you'll never see that when you're going through it because you're too focused on just trying to survive, you know. But there's there's definitely a nothing to the madness, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you so you've you've done uh you've gone through SEALs, you've earned the title, you know, you've trained you know hundreds of other SEALs. It's time for you to get out, right? You've went to the private sector, but you're just time for you to kind of like leave that behind. What made you kind of lean into the entrepreneurial side of life?
SPEAKER_02Um frankly, I was tired of being told what to do by fucking morons. Yeah. I think everybody gets everybody has time in the military. They're like, why the fuck is this person in charge? Like they're absolute retard. And then it it's just so frustrating. And there's some great people too. There's some amazing dudes that just are incredible leaders, incredible people. Um, but if you're stuck with some people that you know aren't of that caliber, it's the same rank and they're in the same position, and you still have to do what they say. And that was very frustrating for me. Um, so I was like, dude, I want to get out and do my own thing. I want to sink or swim by my own hand. I want to be in charge of my own destiny. And being a team guy was fun. Like I really enjoyed it. It was like 10 years total. Uh, did three platoons, one before 9-11 and two after. Uh, never got to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. Always just missed the boat and all the shit.
SPEAKER_00How does that so how does that work? You know, you know, being a SEAL and everything, and and you know, during that time, you kind of missed the boat. Like, yeah. Like, how does that work out for the SEAL side? Like being able to deploy when I like it.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's that's one of the reasons I got out was because uh the second platoon I did, we were so this when Afghanistan was going going off, but Iraq hadn't kicked off yet. And so we were like told, we're sold on this thing, like, oh, you go stand up Djibouti. So we we stood up uh now Camp Lemonier or Lemonade in Afghanistan or in uh Djibouti, Africa. And we literally took the keys for we were the first ones there. It was us, some forced free con guys who were phenomenal, by the way, and uh about a hundred army dudes, and and that was it. And we we built the base essentially. And um we were sold, like, okay, cool. Well, you if because at the time they were like, Oh, we'll either go to Iraq or Yemen, but they weren't sure yet. And we're like, well, if you guys stand up Djibouti, you'll be first in line to go to Yemen. So we're like, okay, cool. Like, and it wasn't my decision, obviously. I think I'm an E5 at the time, so like you're not in charge of shit. But that was what was sold to our platoon and then sold to us. So I'm like, okay, cool, sounds good. So we're just taking it over, going to Qatar sometimes and hanging out. But we never got to do anything because obviously Yemen didn't go off. And then Iraq happened and we missed Iraq. So we did the next platoon, and what they were telling us is like, okay, cool, you'll do like an uh eight or nine month deployment, you do four months to PayCom, like Pacific Command, go out to like station Guam and then take over because they the SEAL teams still have to cover down all the other areas of the world, even though something's going off in a certain area. So just luck of the draw, we didn't get do anything in my second platoon, and then we're like, okay, we'll we'll do four or five months in PACOM. And then they're like, cool, then you get to rip over to Iraq and go do some shit. I'm like, okay, cool. Well, that didn't work out because we got our sister platoon got rolled up in Thailand on a huge drug scandal that went all the way up to the Secretary of Defense, and we got kicked out, our two platoons got kicked out of the entire country. Like the royal family kicked us out. What year is this? 2004, late 2004. And uh yeah. So funny thing about that. Well, I guess it's not funny. It's funny looking back, but the time was definitely not fucking funny. Uh I get it. Yeah, yeah. All these stories are like when you're in it, you're like, oh, this is the worst thing ever. Oh my god, life's over. But looking back, it's like they only become funny, you know, years later. And so some dudes got rolled up, they tested everybody. I didn't pop for anything because I didn't do anything because I still wasn't cool enough to be included in some of the stuff. So I didn't do anything, I didn't pop anything. And so, but some of the guys that did, like my roommate, uh John Williams, did did get caught, and he got his trident pulled, and he ended up shooting himself in front of his family. That's a whole other thing. But but yeah, there was there was a couple of stances like that. Where it got pretty heavy. Um, and then they took our new guys. This is like five months into deployment, they took our new guys back and they sent them to Iraq, and they had me because the whole the whole team would deploy at the time. So I came back to team one, and it's like me and a couple of the dudes and and some techs to the team, and we're like installing door stops and like sweeping the grinder and shit. I'm like, bro, this is like my third platoon.
SPEAKER_00Right. Like, I would never fathom like you guys like that.
SPEAKER_02And I was so pissed because I'm like, dude, I didn't get in trouble. I didn't fucking do anything. Like, this is my third platoon. I didn't get to do shit. Let me go with the boys and go do something. And they're like, nope, you're I don't know, you were associated with the biggest. You got guilty by association. Yeah. So I'm like, dude, whatever. And I'm like, and then I got the opportunity to go to Buds as an instructor. I'm like, okay, cool, maybe this is the next thing. And I already this has put me at I think I just re-enlisted my second platoon. So I still had like three or four years left. So I was like, cool, I'll go do short duty at third phase and kind of see what's up. And and maybe at that time when I'm due to rotate back, then I'll be able to go into platoon and actually go do something. But just never ended up working out. That put me at 2008, and then I met uh my first business partner, Mikey Sowers. He was a third phase instructor at the time, too. And I met him, he's he's a cool dude, man. Like, I the way you know me now is not who I used to be. Like, I used to be that kind of sour guy. I was like afraid to wear tight pants, like afraid to stand out, afraid to have a personality. I was like a very boring team guy. I was like Mark Juan Mato, super boring guy. I was just afraid to kind of let it out. And um Mikey Sours, there's a series of people in my life that came in and kind of taught me that you know, you don't have to be so serious all the time. Like it's okay to fucking make jokes and laugh and wear outlandish shit and be funny and like have a personality. So yeah, Mikey Sowers taught me how to party a lot, and we spent a lot of years together. We were roommates. Like, remember the first times I met him, I was going into the office and getting my shit ready, and he pops up from behind a desk because he'd been out all night and was like, he was sleeping under the desk. He pops up all blurry out. He's like, All right, let's go. And then we went on a run. I'm like, I'm like, okay, dude, like this is an option.
SPEAKER_00You said he was uh your first business partner?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So we were uh third phase instructors together, and then he he left because he'd been there a little before me, so his time was up. He went to team five and then got to go to Iraq. And this this is what cemented my decision to get out was I put in a chit to with my uh through the senior chief of the time in third phase. I was like, dude, I've done three platoons, I'm up for reenlistment, and it's like a $90,000 reenlistment bonus. I'm like, I think about reenlisting, but I haven't been able to, I've been almost 10 years now. I've never done, I've never gone to combat. Like, let me go with the boys. So you can put in a chit to go augment a team. I was like, dude, Mikey's of this team, he's a good friend of mine. Like, let me go out there and do SEAL shit with the boys. And they're like, nope, we're we're too short manned here. We need you here. I'm like, fuck this shit. I'm getting out. So after that, I was like, dude, I'm I'm not chasing the dragon because they didn't let me do that. And if I had stayed in, I had to sign another reenlistment for I think six years. And if you do 16, you might as well do 20. So like this is my shit or get off the pot time. So I was like, okay, I'll uh you know, because if I went to a team, it's still a roll of the dice, whether I go to Afghanistan, Iraq, or anywhere, or or maybe I get stuck in PACOM again and I have no control over any of it. I'm like, dude, I'm so tired of chasing this dragon. I'm just gonna get out and do something else. And uh Mikey Sowers and I, he got back from from deployment and uh we started with Clovis on Forge together and learned a lot of lessons from that. It was like 2007, so Forge. I remember I remember that. It's is it still around? I think so. There it's been through some evolutions. Um do you remember that, Brand? Forge?
SPEAKER_03It sounds super familiar. Yeah, is it try is it the one to try in?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, I remember making that logo because Mike's Mike was a big fan of Maserati and also the designer, so I just traced the Maserati logo and like inverse the the uh little trinits on there. It was like that was our logo. Nice, so I don't know. It's it's it's weird how things work out, you know. It's like we had a plan, but it never went according to plan. We just shifted it.
SPEAKER_00Never does, especially we either knew it's something you and you're you're kind of in the dark finding your way through it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and used to piss me off so much when shit wouldn't go to plan. I'm like, bro, this is a good plan. Why isn't it working? And now I realize like, see, nothing goes to plan. Now I'm just like, okay, cool. I'll make a solid effort, 100% effort on something. And if it doesn't go the way I want, I'm like, cool, why didn't this work? What do I need to change? And that's kind of how I think the universe or God or sometimes just the market speaks to you. It's like, okay, well, this is what this is the direction I should go. I'm like, okay, we should fire. I move, I move this direction. And it's been now I don't, I don't get mad about it anymore. I mean, I still pissed. I'm like, God damn it, that was a good idea, or that should have worked. But now I'm just like, okay, cool, this is what I'm supposed to do, this other thing. And um, yeah, it's been it's been a process though, dude, for sure.
SPEAKER_00So you got out, you got out seals, and your first your first uh venture was Forge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I ran that for uh I sold my half of that five years in to one of our employees, and then Mike and the other guy, his name was Ryan too. And then they ended up running that. I think it got to like a $10 million brand at a certain point. Uh I wasn't involved with it by that point, but it did get up being pretty big because that was before there were a lot of military brands at the time. So we were one of the first ones to get like a good size.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So a lot of people still recognize it and know it. It's it's cool, but then the guy I sold it to you tried to turn it into like a golf brand. I'm like, bro, it's not it's not a golf brand. Because he had a golf background. He's a good operator though.
SPEAKER_00I tried doing that with with SabTac back in the day. Like, you know, um I was looking to sell it and focus on another brand that I had, and um the guy that was gonna buy it couldn't buy it. And I talked about this on another episode, but at the time I had tried changing SabTac into like more of a fitness motivational brand. Yeah. I was like really big in the gym and motivation. And I honestly I was just tired of all the shit online with our community. Like oh, yeah, but it's so cannibalistic, dude. Like everybody's a a a a uh a pro on the on the range, CQB, whatever. I just got tired of bullshit. But anyway, I tried changing it to a fitness motivational brand, and yeah, it wasn't it wasn't too good. And when I tried selling it, I told the guys like, hey, you need to make take this brand back to what it was, basically what it is now. Because the the best way I like to explain it is like it's like I was feeding everybody a steak and took it away and gave them a salad. I was like, you need to give them you give them the steak back. Yeah. You know, so yeah, I I mean I've been down there, I've tried that, and yeah, it was it was a it was a fail. Luckily, I was able to correct course.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what it is, man. And every brand, every small business is an extension of the owner and it has that DNA of the owner in it. And you can only, I think you can only change your stripes so much before you're not a tiger anymore, you know? And like you do have to walk that line as a brand owner between like following your vision and what your your vision for the company is, and also giving the customers what they want, you know. But I think if you can, if you can do a little bit of both and find that middle ground where you still love what you're doing, you still have passion for it, but also you're giving the customers something that they they connect with, that they recognize and want to bring into their own life. That's that's the key. Because if you do shit that you like, I mean, my taste is kind of obtuse. So, like, not not everything I like. I've made a lot of mistakes. Like, bro, this is gonna be killer, everybody's gonna love this, and then it's fucking crickets. I'm like, God damn it. It's funny. You guys have no taste.
SPEAKER_00It's funny you say that, yeah, because this I always like, oh my god, I'm putting designs together. And so I'm like, this is this is oh yeah, this is uh totally.
SPEAKER_02And then I'm like the only one that thinks that's super and then sometimes the designs that I'll put together, because I was the designer, Mikey was the CEO and I was or the whatever, the top guy, and I was the VP and head of design, so I would do all the designs, and I'd labor over these vector points and all this shit. And dude, nobody cared. And some of the designs that I create that were just filler would go gangbusters. I'm like, okay, fine. Exactly the same. Yeah, yeah, it's just one of the processes you gotta go through, and it's just how it is, man. You know, it's just one of those lessons.
SPEAKER_03Both of you guys did apparel, obviously, do apparel. And you mentioned golf, that being a direction. Do either of you guys play golf? I mean, no, I can barely I can barely drop a golf cart. I'm not gonna make it go. What was the thought behind making it go that direction?
SPEAKER_00Well, for me, I was like, I need a hobby, I need to do something. And I've always been someone that's uh athletic and I'm good at everything that I do. I can I mean I can say that confidently, not arrogantly. Golf is the one thing that I am not good at. And and I I mean, I put in the practice, I put in the time, I you know, I fuck, I even put in golf simulators at my bar. Wow, yeah. And I suck. You know, I mean, I I'm I'm like if I break a hundred, was that appreciating honestly? If I break a hundred, I I feel like Tiger Woods. All right. But I mean, um golf is booming right now. I enjoy it. Uh it's the hardest sport I've ever played. And I figured, shit, why not incorporate some of that with with SabTech? And you know, I want to make so we started making like some cool polos that fit our brand. People can have fun with it and go on the golf course. And yeah. So I mean, that's how happened for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we that was after I sold my half of it, so I didn't have anything to do with it. But the reason they got into it was that the guy that I sold my half to had a golf background and he really liked it. And so he was he was the one pushing for it. So, but he's also a really good operator. He's uh I mean, I don't, I'm not throwing anybody on the bus, but uh he did he did have some detractors, but to his credit, he was a really good operator, and so he was able to like make that work. Uh, I don't think the golf thing ever took off, but they made some other moves, like attach themselves to a nonprofit that really helped like grow the brand quite a bit. I don't know if the golf thing ever took off. Um, I think it's cool. I think it's just it it you know it started to turn a llama into a racehorse. Yeah, you know, it's different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, I I I totally understand that. So you so you you sold Forged, and then where where do you go from there? Because, you know, uh uh I mean a lot of people don't know this now, but you know, let's talk about it. But you own Industry Thirdworks, which is you know, uh kind of how our relationship, you know, kind of started from there and uh and evolved into a you know personal friendship. But you know, you you guys you guys help build brands, which is really awesome. You know, yeah, helping print and fulfillment, you're taking that off the the uh the shoulders of business owners, especially starting a new brand or whatever. So, like how did you even get into that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I I so I sold my Half a Forged uh 2012, I think. And then I had started a kettlebell company because I was big into CrossFit at the time, and we had an in. So Dave Castor from CrossFit was we used to be instructors at SQT together. So like his desk was right next to mine. So it's like, dude, we got this thing called CrossFit, and I'm putting on this CrossFit Games in this 2008. So we're like, okay, cool. So we went out there and and uh we're one of the main sponsors at at 2008 CrossFit Games. In fact, we made the plaque that the the guy who won, uh, we made the plaque for him. Of course, it said forged on it because we're idiots. We didn't know we didn't know anything about this, but it was their second CrossFit Games ever. And so we're like, okay, cool. This is this is kind of neat. Um, I think that was 2000, yeah, that was eight. And then I that got me into CrossFit. And then uh I started a kettlebell company that had faces on it. They were like skull kettlebells. And I didn't really want to start the company. I just I wanted to go buy a kettlebell that had faces on it or like skulls on it. I'm like, this doesn't exist. I'm like, I can't be the only person that thinks this is a cool idea, right?
SPEAKER_00But that's usually how businesses kind of start. We had, you know, a coup uh a couple episodes ago, we had um Gabriel Tam uh uh up here, and you know, uh he's really well known for the the topography stuff, you know, he collabs with other companies, but exactly how he got his start. He explains like I was looking for certain products and I couldn't find them, so I started making my own.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so that's kind of a funny story. I'm I don't want to bore your audience with too much entrepreneurship, but I'll make the story short because I I think it is useful for people who are doing their own thing in whatever capacity. So I had uh started this company, I I had no money because I was going through uh a baby mama drama and I bought a house in 2006 and it was going through 2008 financial crisis. It was a big, big fucking mess, right? So I had no money, I was $20,000 in credit card debt, but I had this idea. I'm like, dude, I can't be the only one that like thinks this is cool. So I ended up getting three designs made of like faces, the kettlebells, and they were they were dope, but I was like, dude, how do I finance this? How do I do this? So I had three resin casts made. I took pictures of them, built a website, put them up for sale, and I was like, hey, this is the three-month pre-order. And I put in a $60,000 PO and I had no money. I had negative money, I had negative $20,000. I'm like, bro, I hope this works, or I'm like fuck fucked. And thankfully it did, and because it was such a unique idea that uh we got within a month, we had enough money to cover the pre-order. And I'm thought, like, okay, dude, this is dope. And then you know that goes. Like they came in from China, uh, but pulled the first one out. It was like eight pallets worth that came in off the truck. I pulled the first one out. I'm like, I'm rich, bitch. I'm gonna be a millionaire. I'm so smart, it's such a good idea. And I pulled the second one out and it was all fucked up. And uh had like pits in it and like burrs on it. I'm like, wow, I'm really fucked. And so uh we uh I'll I'll keep the story short, but we ended up getting a US manufacturer. Uh Bill from Rogue turned me on to a uh foundry, US foundry in Rhode Island, uh Cumberland Foundry in Rhode Island. And so I started making the US and they're great. So it's really good product, and then we we built that out. And then I ended up selling that company in 2014, and that gave me enough money to where I was I could kind of like not retire off it, but it was enough where I could like take a little bit of a breather. And I was working at uh SQT as a civilian instructor at the time, and I was like, okay, well, you know, what's next? I had this experience from you know being involved in apparel for you know at that point because oh, I built and sold another apparel line called uh Disciples of Iron in the meantime too. Oh yeah. So I built and sold that. So that was my third company I sold. And Disciples of Iron. Where did that who bought that? Uh West Whitlock. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah. And so I sold it to him. And so I'm like sitting around, I'm like, okay, what I have this experience. I I really like apparel. It's it's a fun medium. Like you get to meet cool people, like you get to be creative, and it's challenging. It's it's hard, you know, like golf, it's it's it's difficult. And so I was like, I'm pretty not good at it, but I've I've made enough mistakes where I I have, you know, some experience in it. And so we started working with this company, and um I saw I saw his stuff online and I was like, I went to go order a shirt because it looked dope. And I couldn't even, I couldn't even check out on his website. I'm like, and I saw shot him a message. I tried for like 15 minutes to try to check out. I'm like, bro, I can't. So I shot him a message. I'm like, hey man, like I really want to order the shirt, but I can't order on your site because it's all fucked up. Like, and I told him, like, hey, if I'm the only asshole saying this, like I'm just an idiot and it's my fault. But if you're getting other messages like this, uh, you know, there are ways to fix this. And, you know, not that I'm I'm still just a random asshole, but I do have some experience with this. I'm like, hey, I can I can help kind of guide you on what the standard stuff is and how to create a website, you know? And so he hit me back and then we ended up working with him. I think he was doing a hundred thousand revenue at the time, and we helped him scale it up to four and a half million in like a year and a half. Wow. A little bit longer. It's like two, two and a half years. And so I was like, okay, he was one of our first clients, and then I would just produce apparel for for other brands, and and it was fun, man. We got to work with some cool people, and I really enjoy the environment and the space and being creative. And but I enjoy the technical aspect of it too. Like you and I have talked about data a lot. Like, I'm a big data nerd. I know it looked like a little bit of a jock, but like I'm a big nerd on the inside. And so most of these guys who run apparel brands, you're the exception. Like you, you are a visionary, but you also have a good head on your shoulders for math and data. Most of the brands we work with are not, most of them are like full-on visionary, and they just you know cannot even deal with Excel at all. And so we would take over the back end to kind of run all the data and manage production for them. And then we ended up scaling that company up. That was I think 2014 is when we first started that. And Disney, my wife, was my first employee with that after we started to you know overwhelm, you know, what I was doing. She was the wife first. No, we weren't married yet. We were just dating. We were dating for like a year.
SPEAKER_00And uh she was the employee and then became the wife.
SPEAKER_02No, no. Yeah, we still we still are at each other's throats all the time because now she's the CEO. So that's a whole different story about roles and responsibilities. But um, but now yeah, now she's a CEO because she's she's a better CEO than me. I realize I'm more like the idea guy. Yeah, most of them don't work, like 90% of them more than that. Almost 99% of them don't work, but occasionally I have one. And I'm like, okay, cool. This is fucking dope. And then I get it like profitable and working. And she comes in. My wife's favorite hobby is telling me I'm wrong. So she'll come in and she'll like, okay, motherfucker, get out of the way. And then she'll install the systems, processes, SOPs, systems, all this stuff. And then we'll apply people to run those systems and processes. And then she we can scale it out that way. She's a phenomenal operator. She's a way better operator than me. And that's how we've been able to run it. And I realize that I'm better at just kind of trying ideas. And I just keep trying shit. And like I said, most of it doesn't work, but I'm just really honest with myself about what doesn't work. And then we can find something that works. I'm like, cool, let's focus on this. And that's how we started the uh the podcast. And and the the fulfillment company spun that off into its own thing like five years ago. But yeah, it's it's just a process, dude, like figuring out what I'm good at, what I'm not good at, and then trying to let go of the things that I'm not good at and fight that urge to like my fingers in all the fucking pies.
SPEAKER_00That's that's being an entrepreneur, you know. Yeah, you're you're you're constantly testing out what works, what doesn't work, and you know, like I said, taking shots in the dark. Yeah. There's no one no one's really teaching you this. No, you're having to be self-taught and and learn along the way. And so you're you're gonna make mistakes and and and and whatnot, but you're also gonna find people that are crucial. Yeah. And that's what you're gonna build your team around. You know, so I even even now myself, I I cannot and I will not always take full credit for for sap that. Yeah, I might have planted the seed, but uh I wouldn't be where I am now if I didn't have certain people on my team in my corner and helped me along the way, like you know, Disney, for example, for you. Um, you just you can't do it all. I'm not gonna know it all.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, that's what it takes, man. Yeah, I think that's a very natural, like when you're a new entrepreneur, you quickly get if your business is working, you quickly get overwhelmed and you think, oh, I need more of me. My business would be so much better if I had 10 of me. Well, I can tell you now, my business would be like maybe 1% better if I had 10 of me, but we'd still suck at so much other shit. So the real goal is you want to get people who are good at the things that you're not. Like, like find people who are strong in the areas that you're weak, and then you can maintain the things that you're good at and that only you can do, and that only you can do to drive the business forward, whether that's you know, on the front end visionary side, or maybe it's media or content, or maybe it's back end analytics, or maybe it's design, or maybe whatever it is, but you got to be open and honest with yourself about what your strengths and strengths and weaknesses are, and then s shore up those gaps by by people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I think and the hardest part to that is letting go. When you do something for so long, you're you're in such a routine and a habit of you know getting those tasks done to hand it off.
SPEAKER_02It's my way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. It's like, dude, I know are they gonna be able to do it right? Well, at the same time, no one cares as much as you. Right. When it's your baby, like no one cares. Like I have a lot to lose. Yeah, I mean, well, you have a lot to lose, but being an entrepreneur, I think one of the biggest hurdles has been hiring people. Oh, absolutely. Finding people that are gonna come in and work and and care about what they're doing, it's not just about a paycheck. And I understand that people have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and they're here to earn a paycheck. But if you've hired people that solely think just that narrowly, like you you're just you're not gonna, you're not gonna grow, you're not gonna expand, you're not gonna have people in your corner that care. And when you get people on your team that care about the business, even though it's not theirs, they treat it like it's theirs, that's when I think a business really thrives. And I I am so lucky I have I have some people like that on my team. You know, like you said, like because I've had 10 Kevins, I don't know where I would be, but there's some stuff that I just I get in the thick of that I'm just like, I I gotta hit hit up so-and-so or hit up this guy. I'm like, what is going on here?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's a great book. Um I'll I'll have it written down. I'll I'll find it. But um basically what it talks about is it the top the subtitle of his shipping creative work. Uh I forgot the I'll I'll figure out what it is. But anyway, the gist of it is the take-home that I took, like as a creative, because I'm I'm the designer on everything we do. I'm not a visionary, but like that's that's more my role than anything else. And so all the design stuff we put out, all the the visual architecture that we build is usually usually for me. And I nerd out on this shit and I do so I waste so much time doing shit that the customer will never give a fuck about. And it's so frustrating for me that they don't care. But I had to come to that realization that like when I'm hiring people to do these jobs, I had to realize they're never gonna do it the way that I want done to 100%, right? Or even a design or whatever. The thing I talk about in the book is like great art is never done, it just escapes. And I think that's very true. And the the tactical takeaway from that to me was like, I'm never gonna be 100% satisfied with anything we put out. And I know that. But what I graduated to now is now I look at it is if the customer is 100% satisfied, if they think this is cool, whether that's an 85% effort or 95% effort on my part, that's where I want to be. As long as the customer is 100% satisfied, any more than that on my end, I'm just wasting my time and I need to move on to a different project and start something else and build it up to something else that the customer is 100% satisfied with.
SPEAKER_00No, that makes that that makes great sense. I mean, because it's not to be confused with you doing it and it's good enough. No, because as someone, you know, uh that's been in the same situation, uh, whatever, if we're creating something, I don't I I don't feel like it's ever good enough. Right. I'm constantly sharing with my team, hey guys, what do you think about this? I I have to get their feedback because if if it's just me, I'm I'm I'm super, I'm hypercritical on the work I've done. And I'm like, maybe this can go here, this, and I overthink stuff. So that's why I have to send it out to people and like get get some opinions, get some feedback. But no, I mean that but that's great, man. I mean, I I feel like that feedback and in you know, hearing from the customer, they're happy, mission success.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Because sometimes, like, I mean, it's your business, you're inherently too close to it to really see it. And the way the analogy I use for it is like you're driving a car down the street and you think it's a yellow car. Somebody's like, nice blue car, bro. And you're like, I thought this motherfucker was yellow, you know, because you're so close to it, you don't know. Yeah, but it's how it's viewed from the outside. You're like, oh shit, I've been doing it this way. This is how it's perceived. Now you're faced with that dilemma is like, do I lean into it and paint the car blue? Or do I be like, no, motherfucker, there's a yellow car. And that's that's kind of the line, the tie rope that you have to walk as a brand owner, whether that's you know, t-shirts or rugs or like any product, it's like you got to figure out like, am I too close to it? Get feedback from people whose opinion you value, not just random schmucks on the internet. But yeah, get people get feedback from people you really value, preferably people who have been in that situation before and can offer like real tactical advice, and then take that on board. It's never gonna be 100% fit. You still gotta like, just because somebody is ahead of you and says something, doesn't still mean that you need to apply it perfectly. But most problems have similar solutions, they they look similar. So usually you can shave a corner or turn something slightly and map it out and overlay it over your problem. And most businesses, especially product-based econ businesses, are almost all very, very similar. So if somebody ahead of you has a problem and say you're shipping socks or you know, other type of products or whatever it is, somebody who has come across that problem there and found a solution, your solution to that is probably gonna look very similar to theirs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. And and Danny, you've worked with quite a few brands. I have since your time in service too, man. Like, so is that something that you see from like brand owners and um yeah, just brand owners, like your feedback on on products and and whatnot?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I I guess for the most part, I'm in a unique position uh to give feedback sometimes as a as an end user, right? They want to know. And a lot of times when people are developing something, I'm talking about more on the defense side of things, right? A lot of times it's doctors and scientists and ergonomists, it's somebody who is not in the role that's helping to develop something, design something. So it's it's giving the feedback is critical because you're saving a product and you're saving the time. I've been given things before and issued things before that we just put it back in a container, you know, and leave it locked up for an entire deployment instead of using it because they put something out in front of us and it went through another process and they didn't get the uh end user feedback, right? So they didn't get to close the loop on that stuff. So which you guys are saying makes a lot of sense. But even if it's like coming from the comments online, you can still glean something from that stuff too, right? Not just the guys.
SPEAKER_02They're super honest, man. But oh, I I love the feedback too, because well, you know me, I love talking shit on the internet. But also, it's like you said, it's great feedback on there because they don't give a fuck about offending you, bro. Oh, they'll tell you like this thing fits like shit, or that design sucks, or whatever. So once you get over that initial, like fuck you, you're like, okay, yeah, cool. Thanks. Like, what what would you what would you suggest? What's different? And sometimes they give you great advice that your friends are like too close to, they don't maybe they want to offend you, or maybe they don't want to say anything. But I I find it's very useful. Like for me, I don't care how somebody delivers the advice or the input. Hey, asshole, you suck at this. I'm like, do I suck at that? Shit, you're right. I do suck at that. Like, how can I get better? What would you like to see? I'm like, cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, as long as you're as long as you're able to step back and separate your personal feelings and look at what they're saying. I mean, yeah, it yeah, maybe it might hurt your feelings a little bit at first, but it's like, is there some truth to what they're saying? And I have taken that with SavTac. I, you know, again, I I I'm an I have no background in apparel. I'm just a guy that's started a brand and nobody does when they start learning on as I go. But I definitely listen to it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we I mean I'm any experience with apparel because you wear that shit every day.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, the the problem is is the way I wear it may not be the way you wear it. So whatever whatever that goes back to his point. Those are for closed doors. But um, you know, I do I pay attention to the comments, even though you know, I'm like, fuck, you know, that that's kind of harsh. But I'm like, no, you know what? He's right. This is legitimate, like we need to fix this. Like, we can make a product better based on this criticism that we're hearing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's so much better to hurt your ego and a little bit of information that's not delivered perfectly. It hurts way worse to spend $10,000 on a product and it doesn't sell. That hurts way worse.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. You know, and and you know, we've been there. I've I've actually I tempted socks back in the day and like made in America socks. Everyone made in America. Where's this made? That seems to be the biggest thing, this and that. But damn, dude, it's something made in America and it's you gotta pay the price. No one wants to buy it. Yeah. I'm like, all right, that's another that's one lesson I learned right there. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna ignore. Look, I love America, I love my country. If I could have everything made here, I would. But the truth is, is as much as everyone thinks the same way when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, they don't want to do it. So what what can I do from here? All I can do is make a product, ensure that quality is there. And if I somewhere fall short, I can go to the comment section, find out where I fell short, come back to the drawing board, make it better. Yeah, I gotta be able to put you know personal feelings to the side and and and whatnot. But I'm I'm never gonna hit a home run, you know, the first the first swing. You know, very rarely does that happen. And so I I just gotta be able to separate personal feelings and and come back and be better.
SPEAKER_02Dude, and as a business owner, you're gonna learn to do two things on that, man. Because we we I think every brand owner, especially like a you know, better known brand, you want to be like, we're gonna do all this made in America, and your feedback that you get from your friends and customers, all this shit, like, yeah, make it in America, and then see the price point, and like, fuck that, I'm going to Walmart. And we're like, bro, nothing in Walmart is made in America. Yeah. So yeah, it's a very big difference in what they'll support, say they support, and then what they'll actually buy. Um, and the other piece of that is that like we produce for hundreds of brands and millions of t-shirts over the years, and the product that is made, the available options, the blanks that are available in the USA, like 100% USA made, are not better. In fact, they're sometimes significantly worse and they're more expensive. And I'm like, this just because it's made outside the United States doesn't necessarily mean it's better. There are a lot of places like, you know, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Guatemala, all these places that are highest end stuff, like Lululemon. I don't know where they're produced, it's definitely not in the United States. They're the best in the world at producing their stuff. The best. America cannot produce as good a stuff as these people that specialize in these textiles. So, like, oh, it should be made in the USA. I'm like, bro, it's good stuff.
SPEAKER_00My theory what contribute is I feel like unions. I feel like unions serve their purpose, you know, time, but in the 1800s, yeah. Uh it's gotten to the point now where it's like a gang and it's just you've you've forced companies because look, yeah, unions, uh your employees are gonna get paid more better benefits and this and that, but pricing doesn't stay the same. Yeah. The business is gonna adjust fire to make sure that their quotas are still getting met. And if that means, yeah, we're gonna pay you more as an employee and give you benefits, but Danny here is gonna pay for that by those $50 shoes are now $100 shoes. Yeah. So and they don't get it.
SPEAKER_02They're like, why aren't t-shirts $20? I'm like, bro, it's not $19.95 anymore. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00It's a battle I've I've seen that I've decided not to fight anymore over the years. And so the best thing I do is I'm gonna deliver a product that, yeah, it might not be made in America, but I'm gonna make sure that it's it's good quality. Exactly. And and you know what? If I didn't make it as good as it should have been, I'm gonna I'm gonna work hard to better it on the next version.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, whereas it it truly is an international supply chain anymore. And guess what? This device that they're bitching at you about is made in fucking China. You know what I mean? Like, there's no American-made iPhones. Like it it's just I look at it as anybody who bitches about that now, they just don't have enough experience to understand how things really operate. So that's why I don't even get mad about it now. I'm just like, they just they just don't know. You know, I think there's a difference between bitching about something because you're just uneducated and you don't know and you mean well, or some people just bitch about stuff because they just want to be a contrarian asshole.
SPEAKER_00Well, it goes back to the conversation we were having last night at dinner, is you know, I think people from the outside looking in go, hey, this guy owns industry threadworks or savage tacticians or whatever, and man, he's doing great. I'm probably living the best life ever. The truth is, is we're working probably three times as more as you are. Like, and and and it's not to kick dirt on you know, anyone else out there. I'm sure they're working hard and everything too. But I mean, there's there's times I'm I'm up to like midnight, you know, so I can talk to factories, so I can get emails. You know, when I leave here and all my employees clock out, I go home, I go through payroll. You know, I'm still on the clock. I have my my little boy like, hey, daddy, come play with me. Daddy's got to finish this first, you know. So you're you're you are you're working a lot, man. And I think people don't see all that stuff behind the scenes that happen as as yeah, as an entrepreneur. But it's not the glory isn't all the glory comes when you can retire or sell this motherfucker. Yeah, you know, that's when it comes like when I I I could sell Sabtag, we sell bulkhead, we do whatever. I can kick back on the beach and and relax. Yeah, victory, then at that point. Yeah. All right. But until that day comes, I'm gonna be grinding and working my ass off. And it's not as glorified as people people think. Well, the other stressful, oh yeah, it's fucking stressful. Dude, it is explain express enough how being a business owner, a startup, nobody, small brand, building it to you know, a 10 mil uh, you know, revenue. It's it's it's a lot of work. It's stressful on you, your family financially, everything.
SPEAKER_02Well, people don't see it, man, especially because people just show the highlight rail on Instagram. But dude, entrepreneurship is way harder than being a Navy SEAL, man. It's way harder. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, for sure. It's also super rewarding. It's like you get in what you put out of it, but it's like I wouldn't do anything else though. You know, like I I love, like you talked about golf, like it's super hard, but I love that I learn something new every day. You know, there's there's new problems to solve, there's different problems to solve. It's the old you hear this all the time, people like must be nice, you know. Or like, oh, you you set your own hours. I'm like, yeah, all of them, motherfucker. Like, people don't get it, man. My sister Shannon is the worst.
SPEAKER_00She's always like blessing my balls, like, oh, Kevin, this and that. I'm like, if you only knew, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, dude. Well, cars too, like that's how we originally connected. Was I saw you got that MC 130? Oh, the MC 20, the MC20 back in the yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was sick with the doors. Yeah, it was sick. That's how we originally connected. I'm like, bro, this guy's dope. He's fucking fit, tattoos, looks like a G, and he drives a fucking nice ass exotic. I'm like, dude, and I I had to think I had a Hurrican at the time too. I'm like, but you you get that. That's a unique experience when you build a brand to a certain point, and then you're able to kind of get something that everybody perceives as like making it. And I'm like, bro, when I first had that Lamborghini, because apparel, like, you know how it is with Apparel, man, it's super volatile. So, like sometimes at our peak, at our peak, we were doing like 7 million in top line revenue. But as a manufacturer, our margins are super low. And so we were first starting, so we're doing much less in top-line revenue, but it was still like I remember driving the Lamborghini around and I had like $2.76 in my bank account. I'm like, this is fucking funny, bro. This is just funny. I mean, but at the end of the day, we had like 60 grand in there because we're waiting for, you know, some PO to come in or whatever. But I'm like, people don't realize like how volatile it is being an entrepreneur. And I think you just get used to it, man. It's like, it's like going to the gym, right? It's like like the weights don't get lighter, you just get stronger. Entrepreneurship's like that. The like the problems that we're dealing with now, dude, they would have crushed us 10 years ago. Like, I don't know how to that's fucking crazy. I don't know how to solve this problem. But now we're like, okay, this looks like another one of these problems. We have the solution over here. We tried before. Let's shape some corners, try it out. Okay, this works. And then we plug it in. And so now we don't really get, I mean, it's still stressful, but it's not, it's not hopeless, you know? And uh, dude, your network is huge. If you're an entrepreneur, you gotta have a network of people that you can be open and honest with and talk to. Like I almost lost my whole business like probably five years ago. We were uh like like I said at the time we were doing like seven million top line revenue, which sounds like a lot, but I didn't realize we had way overexpanded. So we had like three small warehouses. I had a big ass like 3,000 square foot uh glass office for 24 people on staff. I felt like a real grown-up entrepreneur, man. I was like, dude, this is dope. We're gonna be doing fucking eight figures next year. I was thinking we're good. And uh, dude, it turns out I had uh made some major mistakes. I had hired the wrong person as CFO, and as we're and I didn't check that old saying like inspect do you expect? I did not do that. And I was trying to take a step back from being like super involved in everything. So it's like I'm gonna do the Jocko approach, like uh what's it called, disassociated leadership or something like that, where like you just you don't get involved, you set them the expectations and then you kind of sit back and let them do their thing. Well, I fucked up all of Jocko's teachings because by the time as we're expanding, I would always ask him, like, hey man, um and he had credentials and shit, but I was like, hey, do we have money to hire these people for the marketing team? He's like, Oh, let me check. Yeah, yeah, we can do it. It's like, oh, do we have money to commit to this lease on this warehouse space? Let me check. Oh yeah, we can do it. So it turns out we could not do any of it. So by the time we figured out what's going on, we looked under the hood, even though our top line was good, we had been losing twenty to thirty thousand dollars a month for a long time. And we were half a million in the hole. And I'm like, and I owed, I owed um the partner print shop he worked with, he's a good friend of mine. Um, I owed him over 300 grand. This is a buddy, it's not like I owned the or the bank or credit card, like I owed my friend over 300 grand. And we had payroll, which is like over, I think it was like 90 grand a month at the time. And I'm like, and we had 30 grand of the bank account. I'm like, we're fucked. We're completely fucked. I don't know what to do. And I'm like, I always kind of get choked up when I think about this, but like I remember there was a window about four days and we knew what the problem was, but we didn't know how to solve it yet. Man, and I'm sitting up at night staring at the ceilings. Like 4 30 in the morning, I haven't slept. I'm like, dude, I'm a I'm a shitty entrepreneur, I'm a shitty husband. Like, how did I get us in this position? And Disney had just taken over from COO to CEO. I'm like, how did I get us in this? Position. We're fucked. And Disney rolled over and she's like, Like, babe, you still up? I'm like, Yeah. I'm like, honey, I'm sorry. I don't know how we're gonna get out of this. And she, this is how I knew I married the right person. She looks at me and she goes, Babe, I don't know either, but I know we're gonna figure it out. I was like, bro, I got the right fucking partner, man. And um, and we did, but the reason that we figured it out was that I was open and honest with I had a really good uh uh entrepreneur network. It was the Arite Syndicate, which is Andy Frusella from First Form. It's the him and Ed My Let created this group. And all of them are other business owners at most of them way higher level than me. And so I was telling him, like, hey man, I'm this is my problem. Like, I don't know what to do. I'm like really in a bad position here. And they're like, oh, talk to Jonathan Ferdera, who already knew. I just forgot that he did financing. And we'd never taken on any loans before or anything. We'd always been just like cash and like paying it as we go. And so I talked to him. He's like, bro, I got you. Get you a half million dollar SBA loan for 2.9%, and you don't have to pay anything back for 18 months. I'm like, bro, you saved my fucking life. You know, shout out to Jonathan Vadera. And uh, and he had us the money in like 10 days. And I was like, holy shit. And that got us, that got us enough runway because we knew what to do. We knew what we needed to do to fix it, but we knew it was gonna take about six to nine months for us to write the ship. Sure, but we didn't have the runway to do it. We had no cash. And so he got us the cash to to fix it, and then we did. But I was like, holy shit, man, just having those open and honest conversations with people in your network of people who have been there and done it and know and have the experience, it's I mean, it saved my business, saved my life.
SPEAKER_00I've been there myself, dude. So I I totally it resonates a lot with me. So two things about that. One, networking. Yeah. Networking, networking, networking.
SPEAKER_02But not the like rubbing elbows, like ha ha ha, like intentional.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, dude. I mean, well, I should say three things networking, but being a fucking good person. Yeah, go ahead. All right, you know, uh at the end of the day, no matter how much money you make, how much little money you make, just being a fucking good person will get you a long way to do that. Do what you say you're gonna do. It's not hard. If you're if you're just a douchebag and you get yourself in a deep hole, no one's gonna want to fucking help you. Yeah, but if you're a good dude, they're like, That's a fucking good dude, man. I can't let this happen to him, whatever. You know, he's been good to me, whatever. Networking, being a good good.
SPEAKER_03It's your social, it's your social credit within your network. Yeah. I had a buddy say your network is your net worth, and I took that with me my whole career, and even now. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00But three is again coming back to who's on your team, those people were there, and being honest, you know, I I was the same way, I was open, honest, and like Disney, like your wife and my wife, I think that's why they get along so well. They're like cut from the same cloth. Like when I went through the same thing, yeah, like yeah, it makes it gets me a little like Rebecca had my back, dude. So I mean, I get it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it goes a long way, man. And I think also as an entrepreneur, everything's your fault. Like, yeah, the the CFO made some bad decisions, but I'm the guy who hired him. You know what I mean? I didn't check the shit. Yeah, that's my fault. I'm the guy who created this whole mess, regardless of you know whatever information he fed me. I could have checked it. I'm not incapable. I could have logged in and check it. I just fucking didn't. And like it's so stupid looking back. It's insanely stupid looking back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it's it it's not to be confused with like micromanaging either. You just get to you get to a point where you know you have to you hire people to do a job, but at the same time, there's still it's like being in the military, inspector general. You're still gonna come in, your your your unit, your CO is still gonna get inspected and checked. Is he doing his fucking job? So I mean you have to, and that again, I you know, that's the great thing about military and you know, and that's something I want to ask you too about the seals up, but like time and service, a lot of that stuff. I've been able to bring that forward to you know my entrepreneur entrepreneurial side of of life. And whether you hire someone to do a job, they still need to be checked up on.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. You you guys are clearly success stories though, right? Well, I don't know about that. We'll see.
SPEAKER_02I'll my idea.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get what I'm saying. But the the thing is, is uh there is a a thing about betting the vet, right? Like there is nobody you guys are talking about it's hard to hire people, uh you know, you're you're responsible for what happens, what yeah, what doesn't happen, right? But in the community, like this is a uh like entrepreneurship is I get it, that's what we're talking about. But the veteran community, how do you vet the vet? Like, how do you make sure you have the right guy? There's a lot of people that say they can do things that they can't do, there's a lot of people that say they have backgrounds that they don't have. What is the appropriate way to do that? And and everybody deserves a chance, right? You got to give people chances, but how can we be better about making sure that the right people get put in the right positions? Because that also helps you guys, right? And you're overhead, right? Absolutely. Yeah, people. That's the whole conversation, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I mean, like vets helping vets, obviously, you know, we're all about that, helping our own and whatnot. But yeah, I mean, there's there's just because they're a vet, there doesn't mean them make them a good person. So absolutely, I think we should always check who we're letting in, you know, our house on our team. I think, you know, we've talked about I've talked about this before, but you both know very well I've been in that position, letting someone in on my fucking team and turn out to be a very shitty person, whether they're a veteran or not. So it's about taking the due diligence and your due diligence and checking in on them, whether starting with your D214, and then just kind of like, who knows this person too? I mean, there's when I dealt with that situation, I talked to Cody like back in the day. Cody like knew this particular person as well, and he was like, dude, I I just thought you knew he was fucking a shit bag and didn't care.
SPEAKER_01I was like, fuck no, I didn't know, dude.
SPEAKER_00Like you let me know next time, you know what I mean? But yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I think you know vets we like we get a little bit of a a pass, but everyone should be checked regardless. You know, you you you gotta check it because at the end of the day, you don't know someone's true intentions and their true qualifications. I mean, you can kind of see, but it might yeah, they might be the the shittiest person in the field.
SPEAKER_02The the vet thing is a good thing, like it'll it'll get you a foot in the door, it'll get you an introduction, but you still have to perform once you like it'll get you to the meeting, maybe, but you still gotta perform. You still gotta do the tasks required to the to the metrics that are set in the role of responsibility.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I I would say, you know, um from a business, you know, um uh aspect, you know, viewpoint is uh veteran or not, you should have a 60 or a 30, 60, 90 day kind of review.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, how are they doing uh uh 30 for first 30 days, like you know, you you know, left seat, right seat, you know, you you you're you're you showing them the ropes, you know, you're showing them around, whatever. And okay, now do your job now. 60 days and then nine days, like, are they performing? Are they doing are they doing the job? So I think, I think as an entrepreneur, as you know, even if you're not an entrepreneur, you know, you're working on a project, your project manager, you're doing whatever, I think you know, you need to pay attention to who's on your team and then do your check-ins, you know. Um, and then and then at at those 36, you know, um AARs, you know, like Yes, and train them, man.
SPEAKER_02My wife has a really good, uh, like I said, there's a reason she's the CEO, she's better at the shit than me. But she has a really good metric that she uses or protocol she uses. It's very simple. It's just I do, we do, you do. Like she'll do something, show them, and then they do it, and she watches over. Sorry, she does it, shows them, and then they do it together, walk them through it, and then she observes them doing it themselves. And it's I mean, it's just training, it's just basic training. The same thing as like throwing a grenade. Like the first time you do it, you're like the instructors hovering over you like a hawk, like, hey man, pull the pin and throw the grenade the pin, you know? It's super basic. Yeah, but it's necessary, man. And these things that you take for granted as a as an owner, an entrepreneur is because you're so intimately familiar with it, because you're the one wearing the hat, you've been doing it so long by the time that you hire the person, you're like, oh, it's obvious. And you sometimes forget that, like, no, this person's new, they don't know these things, even though they might be qualified on paper to do this certain tasking. You still need to check they're doing it to the standards that your particular business needs, you know, because it's a little bit different. Every business is a little bit different.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I'm I'm I'm bad about the uh like it's easy to talk about when it comes to bringing someone in and and and training them to uh learn something or do something. I know now to like just step away and like get someone in there because I tried to oversimplify stuff. So I was like, I want them to understand in the simplest form. Yeah. And I end up complicating it. Exactly. So like when it comes to even like shooting and and stuff like that, like like I fuck, man. Before I got out of my car, I was you know a marketership instructor and and um and I knew even from that experience, I'm like, I suck at teaching because I tried breaking things down so they understand and I make it so complicated. So like even my wife would start shooting, I'm like, she's like, teach me. I'm like, no, I'm sending you to Ron. So I send her over to Ron a couple of times, but I'm like, I'm not teaching you. One, I you know, I'm gonna try to explain stuff, you're not gonna get it. I'm gonna get agitated and a little bit mad at you. And then I'm gonna try to make it even more simpler, it's gonna get too complicated. We're gonna get in a fight. She's never gonna shoot. So I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna send you to people that enjoy teaching that can do it, but not me. So yeah, so for even business stuff, like we hire people, I'm I'll kind of explain a little something, but I'm like, I'm gonna connect you with uh this person over here so they can they can break it down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, my wife told me a couple years ago, she's like, I mean, we've been together uh about 12 years now. And a couple years into it, she's like, I want to teach you, I want you to teach me how to work out. And I'm like, I should have seen the writing on the wall now for that. I'm like, because I I had experience of that, and I I was running like the fitness program for SQT at the time. And they sent me to like, I mean, cross the certifications, but whatever. But when they sent me to like Louis Simmons Westside Barbell, they sent me to I I got legit certifications. I was the one in charge of the entire program at SQT for a while. And I'm like, I know how to do this. And I would kind of explain to her and show her, but she's always looking at me like, I'm the husband, so I you don't know shit. What are you doing? So I'm like, finally, like we got through like one session, like I fired her as a client. I'm like, I'm never teaching you again. Like, you need to hire a trainer or something because like this is not worth just getting into a fucking argument over like Bulgarian split squats or something, you know? Like, no way.
SPEAKER_00Even with my with Rebecca now, like my wife. Um, if I like try to like, if I observe something, and I'm like, if she's not doing it right, not and we've had this talk so many times, but it's like it's not that you're not doing it right because that's the way that you're not doing it the Kevin way. Right. It's like there some things in life, there's only one way to do it right. The bullet goes in that direction. So I'm like, I I'll I'll explain to her, and it's like like you know, it's like I uh she takes it as if I'm like, you're not you you're not doing it right because you're wrong, I'm right. And you man, they're they are the same. And that's like it aggravates the shit out of me sometimes. But yeah, it's like um I so I just give up on some of the things.
SPEAKER_02I I think that's such like a man-woman thing. Like we really do view the world differently. Oh, yeah, view the world so differently. And it's like we want the same thing, and there's two different ways to do it. I've had to pull myself out of that so many times where I'm like, no, this is the way to do it. And I realize when I just let her go and I let her do it, more often than not, I hate to admit this, but she'll find a better way to do it than my way. And I gotta be like, damn, you know what? This that's a major hit to my ego because I've been doing this a long time, and your way is definitely better than mine. I'm like, fuck, man, the right is right.
SPEAKER_00The classic one, I always love to bring this up. And she hates it and hates me for it. But so when when you know Rebecca moved over here from Ireland, you know, uh, she they didn't have they had they didn't have a dishwasher, or they had a dishwasher, they didn't it didn't work or it broke, or they just never used it. I can't remember. But when she would come over here loading dishes and dishwasher, it'd be like the bolt, like the dirty side facing up, and they just put I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, hold on. I was like, look, the it's first of all, let's rinse stuff off in the sink first, and then you need to put it where it's facing down because the water because the jets come from a certain direction, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then think of this as Tetris. That's exactly how I explained it by you need to still think I'm an asshole.
SPEAKER_00You need to get it in, you gotta get things in there so we can maximize the space and then make sure. I was like, but because you can't have a plate laid over on a plate because now how are they gonna get cleaned? I was like, you got to get it spaced, get everything just right. Same thing. Oh my god, that was uh two different fights.
SPEAKER_02My my wife and I have been going to uh couples therapy for the last like six months. It's actually really fun, dude. We we go there and it's like it's almost like a date. Like we get to talk, and I find out we go there and the I I specifically chose a female therapist because I'm like, there's there's no way she's gonna listen to a dude. And so, but then I'm getting ganged up on. But we'll go there and uh we actually had a whole almost a whole session about the fucking dishwasher, bro. And I'm like, it doesn't have to be my way, but it's just physic. It's it's this is the where the jets come from. And she still loads it like a drunk raccoon. I'm like, well, how do you think this is gonna work? It doesn't have to be my way, but there's definitely a right and a wrong way. So how we solved that was like, and how we divvy up the things around the house because we work together and we live together, so it's like we're constantly pissing each other off and stepping on each other's toes. So now how we divide the chores and like the basic stuff is like because nobody likes doing the dishes and nobody likes putting them away. But I dislike putting them away more than I dislike doing the dishes, and she's the opposite. She dislikes putting them in the dishwasher and she doesn't.
SPEAKER_00I would think that would be the same way. I like loading the dishwasher.
SPEAKER_02I don't mind it as much. Yeah. So now we just do the things that we hate less than the other person, and that's been good. So now I load the dishwasher and she unloads a dishwasher because apparently I magically find a way. There's stuff that comes out of the dishwasher that I have never seen before. I'm like, I don't, we've been living in a house eight years. I still don't know where this piece of Tupperware goes. And she's like, Oh my god, it goes here, obviously. I'm like, first time in eight years I've seen this fucking thing.
SPEAKER_03I'm sorry, I don't know. Dude, maybe my household's different, but you got to get some kids to fucking do this shit for you. Oh, there we go. That's how you do it. Some free labor early, and then they learn, and then you must worry about this stuff now, you know. What's what's a good age? What's a good age to get them? A good age to get them started? Two. So two, really? I got a 14-year-old doing ours, and basically by her doing that, it's like osmosis. The other kids see it, so they're starting to pick up on it. So eventually they'll trade tasks and move on to something else. You said 14? 14 year old.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's gonna be four soon. Since she was 12. Start 10 years early.
SPEAKER_01Four-year-old. There you go, dude. Yeah, let's start loading some dishes, chopping some wood.
SPEAKER_00Oh man, um, but yeah, Ryan, yeah, and so uh what's what's next in life, man? I mean, you got industry threadworks, you got Liberty Risk, which has had some success, you know. Like what what do you what do you got going on?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like we're you know, my background is apparel, and I I do enjoy it. Like it's super fun. We get to work with some really cool people, and I'm still learning a lot, which is which is great to be, you know, 19 years in a space and still learning. But also I think we're in a position now where because we work with so many brands over the years that that uh and like we talked about earlier, like most problems have a similar solution set. So now with with industry, what we're trying to do, and like I said, I try a ton of things and have ideas, and I don't know if this idea is gonna work. But the next thing that I'm I'm trying is that we're gonna put out um all the information that we have on how to build and scale the programs for free to people and just be like, bro, this is in my opinion, and granted I'm biased, but I don't know of anybody else who's putting out, I don't know of anybody else who has our experience and is putting out the information publicly and for free. There's some paid programs, but I've bought some of them and they're they're not they're not what you they're not what you need. They're like they they've made more money on their program than they ever made on their actual apparel. And they they maybe had a clothing brand for a couple years, and they're like, oh, we're gonna sell courses. Like, that's not what this is. This is like hundreds of data points of real, actual data. It's not my opinion. This is very real replicable. Like I can point to the data and say, you know, the next level 6210 is the best-selling blank of all time. Black sells twice as good as every other color, except for gray and military green, depending on your market. Like, that's a very real data set. So that's kind of what we do is like show people all the information how to do it for free. We're putting together a Facebook group, it's just under Industry Threatworks. Um, I think it's called Apparel Brand Owners Group now. Uh, I don't know if the name might change, whatever, but um, I'm just putting together all this information that I've collected over the years and all the videos and just putting it out there for free. Hopefully, some people use it to build their own brands and you know, create their own vision and bring this product and this this message and mission into the world. Um, because it's such a fucking beautiful thing, dude, to be able to have something that you have in your mind's eye, and then be able to articulate that vision into a physical product and then put it out in the market and then see other people recognize that and say, hey, this makes my life better. I feel more complete in me as a person. I mean, I'm aggrandizing it, obviously. But like that's really what people do when you put on a t-shirt for the day, you're saying, this is how I want to be represented to the world for the day. It's like a tattoo you wear for the day. So I really love apparel. It's fun. And I nerd out on this shit. So we're putting out all the information for free. Um, and hopefully there's a percentage of those people that that want to work with us and decide that we're a good choice for production and and maybe fulfillment. Um, and if not, that's totally fine too. We're we're a good fit for certain specific things, but there's also things that are that we're not a good fit for. And part of this is like, hey, you know, we do print on demand, but there's other people that do print on demand too. And you're better served by going over to you know, printful for something like this. Or maybe we do fulfillment for certain products, but we can't fulfill like office chairs or something like that. So you're better served by this other point. So we'll we're just putting out all the information and then there's building a community. Yeah, yeah. Because it's lonely, bro. Like, you know it is, dude. An entrepreneur, and you feel so lonely trying to navigate this mess, and nobody's giving out good information. And uh, I think there's too many gatekeepers on it. And I used to hold this stuff really close, but now I had a heart attack like five, six months ago now. And it didn't really, I mean, I never felt like I was gonna die, but apparently it was pretty close. But that it didn't really change my mindset, but it made me realize that, like, why the fuck am I holding on to this information? I have a ton of information on this, possibly the most information that anybody has in the world on how to build and scale the paragrounds. Let me just fucking put it out there, and that way, whether make money on it or not, it's out there. So not it's not like a legacy thing because it's not that important, but if we help people build their own dreams, I just think that's a cool fucking thing. So we're gonna try to do that, um, see how it goes. It's it's still brand new, so we'll see. Um, it might be a complete waste of time and fail. I don't I don't fucking know, but it's gonna live out there and the information uh hopefully is useful to people.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and I think it's awesome because you know, uh coming up and not having someone to turn to, ask questions, you know, whatever. I mean, I think this is it's pretty awesome. I mean people are trying to start apparel brands all the time, you know, and I think people learn quickly it is it's it is hard. Yeah, so to have a community to go to that you can, you know, find the information or you know, talk to others ask questions. Yeah, and and and be like, oh, talk to a few people that's dealt with that same problem and get the solution right there. You know, uh I I recently had someone, uh a customer go, I love your shirts, I love your shirts, I'm going on vacation. Do you have any like just plain with no graphics either? I'm like, I'm like, no, I don't, I don't, we don't sell them. He's like, oh, you're probably you're probably not inclined to let me know which blinks you use. And I was sitting there thinking, I'm like, me, the same thought. Like, this is I figured this out on my own. Like I tested this and that. Like, I'm gonna give up my secret. It's my secret or whatever, yeah. This and that. And I was like, why is the fuck up? I messed up, I'm like, yeah, dude. I was like, look, I use these, it's a mix of shirts that we may use depending on what what the what we're going for. Yeah, us two, yeah. You know, we use we use this blank. Yeah, because different blanks are the best serve for different markets. Well, you know, I'm I'm old me, you know, even now thinking about that, you know, when he asked a question, I'm like, is this guy gonna go start an apparel brand? And and then is he gonna push SabTec? I've gone through that too, yeah. You know what I mean? Like so I'm like, wise the fuck up, dude. I'm like, you know, maybe he maybe maybe that's what his intentions were, you know, were and maybe he creates something and uses the same shirts, but maybe he it flops. Maybe he makes something that's better. I don't know. But I'm like, you don't know, but you know what, just let the dude know what shirts you use.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, dude. And apparel stuff too is like even me as a brand owner, not every t shirt in my closet is lib to risk or industry throw. It's like I have a ton of brands that I think are cool in my closet, and and so do you, and so does everybody else. And it's like you're not taking money out of your own pocket to help somebody else buy this, but also that's an Initial fight that you have to have because that is a very real thought that goes through your head. Because I I felt that way for years too. Just like, nah, fuck that. I had to do this shit. I'm keeping this shit, you know. Like, you go figure it out. Now I'm like, like you, like, dude, what am I doing? Like, who cares? And I know how hard it is to do what we've done in this space. And so now I'm like, number one, I'm like, bro, good luck. And two, now that I've, you know, come full circle on it, I'm like, dude, you know what? Fuck it. Like it, this is what I want to do. I want to help people do this stuff and build their dreams. And if we can be a part of it in some way, whether it's just helping them in the information, awesome. And if they want to work with us, fuck, even better, you know. Um, but that's been really cool. I really enjoy that. Hopefully it works out. Hopefully it helps people. Um, hopefully it, you know, gets us clients too. But I'm not doing it purely out of altruism. Like, we definitely want more clients, but at the same time, it's like, dude, it is you get to that point, like I'm 48 now, and it's like, dude, what do you want to leave behind? And not like this would be a great legacy by any means. You know, it's pretty fucking small by by most standards, but you gotta have something, you know. And if this is what I can give to the world, and as small as it is, I'm like, cool, that's good. And I I hope it helps people. But it's been, in fact, I was at the gym the other day, and a dude came up to me, Frank, and he's uh former fireman is getting out and he's starting a uh chimchery sauce thing. And uh he came up to me in the gym and was like, dude, that video that you did seven years ago, he saw this video on how to basically seven key things that every program needs to grow and scale. And he's like, bro, that seven years ago he saw this video and he's like, dude, that really helped me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, fuck, man, because I was kind of on the fence of like, do I should I release all this shit? Like, what do I do with it? And it was that conversation that made me realize this video that I did seven years ago helped this dude, and he's getting out medically retired, going through some shit, and he's the mission behind his brand is fantastic. He's going through like his own uh his first responders deal with a lot, man. I there's definitely a case we made that they deal with more PTSD causing issues than we do, even in the military, because they deal with it day in and day out. There's no, you're not thousands of miles away, you're next door, and you don't get any separation coming home. It's it's a very real thing. And he's addressing that, and that's a big part of his focus and the mission and the message of his brand. I'm like, fuck, dude, that video I did seven years ago helped this guy. I'm an asshole if I don't put this shit out. So that's that's kind of uh, I think kind of God of the universe taps you on the shoulder sometimes and tells you, like, gives you these little messages. I think that was a little key to me to be like, okay, I found that message at the right time when I was at that apex point of making the decision. I'm like, okay, that's God telling me I need to do this. Wherever it goes, I just need to put the information out. So hopefully it's it's the right choice.
SPEAKER_00I think it's I think it's a good move, man. Like I said, uh, nothing wrong with building community, you know. Uh so um I think there's gonna be a lot of good information to come out of it. And shit, you might have the next Gymshark guy that comes out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's fun, man. But the the podcast has been so much fun, dude. Like, I mean, we're still super new to it, but I enjoy it, dude. I really enjoy it. If if I can if I can do that for the next 10 years, like have drinks with my friends, have meaningful conversations, have fun, tell stories, joke around, have a good time, and make money doing it. Like, that's what I want to do for the next 10 years of my life. And that that's so hopefully, I mean, hopefully it goes that direction. It seems like people enjoy it and it's it's working out that way, but you know, there's always problems, there's all this shit that pops up, but I've noticed now that uh maybe this is getting too esoteric, but there's been several points in my life where I try too hard to do something because I'm an aggressive person, we're all aggressive people, and I want to do something, and like I'm gonna fucking get it, I'm gonna fucking go, and nothing's stopping me, right? But then there's a certain amount of challenges that come up that's normal and everything, but then I've noticed that there's sometimes more challenges than normal. And now I look at it to where if we have more than three things, like we were gonna sign a lease on a bigger warehouse space probably two years ago, and everything was set. Like all I needed to do was sign on this thing, and we commit be committed to uh three-year lease on this space that was like 17,000 square feet, like way bigger than we currently have. And I was like, but we we got one final piece of pushback on it, and it was like had to be personally guaranteed. And I'm like, but everything everything's personally guaranteed anyway in my stuff. So I'm like, that wasn't a big deal. But it was the fact that this is the third thing that had come up, and it gave me pause where I'm like, dude, what is the universe trying to tell me here? So I was like, okay, let me just take a second. And I looked at, I looked at it, I read the numbers, and I realized I'm making the same mistake. I'm overcommitting, I stretch myself too thin, and I we didn't pull the trigger on it. And thank God we didn't, because some things came up later where we would have been in a really bad position if I had signed that. But it was being aware of that that extra challenge, that extra thing. I find the universe taps you on the shoulder and it'll just keep tapping you harder and harder until it's sitting with a sledgehammer. So you're right, yeah, exactly. So now I find I try to pay attention to it when it's tapping me instead of hitting me with a sledgehammer. So um that's been useful. And with the podcast, there's still challenges, but it's easier. Like things are flowing, like the solution comes up, we're going the right direction, and uh it's different types of challenges, and none of them are like super hard. It feels much easier than most things. So that that makes me think that we're supposed to do this in some way, and then the feedback from people that it helps them like okay, cool, this is dope. Um yeah, it's just a good time, man. Like, like I said, like if I can have some drinks with my friends and tell funny stories and do that for a living for the next 10 years, that's a fucking win, bro. That's a fucking win.
SPEAKER_00Navy SEAL entrepreneur, before you retire, we we gotta get the book.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you right? I was waiting for this. Like I said, hair gel products, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the book and then maybe maybe maybe a movie, and you know, right. My my life is not that I w I wish I was that interesting. Yeah, my my team guy experience was like I said, super generic, nothing exciting or interesting. I learned a lot from the street. Well, I mean, I the way I look at it now is like I want Navy SEAL to be the footnote on my tombstone, not the headline. I want to do so much other shit that people forget about that and and help people and do rad stuff with my friends and create new stories that you know that's a background, that's context for kind of the life, but I don't want that to be the main the main thing. Same season, bro. Yeah, exactly. Same season. Yeah, it's a chapter, but it's not I don't want to write a book about just that one time because there's so many seal books out there, and they're some of them are fucking phenomenal. I'm like, who am I to write a book about what I was a I was a bud instructor for a long time? Like, get fucked, bro.
SPEAKER_00Like nobody cares. Well, man, dude, I've enjoyed having you on. It's good to see you and you know, sharing your story from you know uh high school seals to your your journey through being an entrepreneur and finding your way through that. It's you know, it's it's awesome, man. I know there's so much more that I would love to just sit here and and go on with you about, but you know, we have to we have to call it now. But um, you know, Danny, I appreciate you stepping in for Evan. Um, we're gonna get you back on, man. We're gonna get you up here.
SPEAKER_02Dude, next time you guys are on the West Coast, man, we'd love to have both you guys on the show. Like it's oh yeah, we go a little bit longer, it's usually like three to four hours, and uh we get a little lubed up around like minute 45. It starts to get real, and then uh it's just a it's a wild good time, man. But yeah, we'd love to have it.
SPEAKER_01We'll have to jump out there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it'll be like Sandy again.
SPEAKER_02Weather's good.
SPEAKER_03Always good, man. Also, too, if nobody told you today, you look great for 48, bro.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, bro. I'm trying. Hopefully these uh cameras aren't too high definition.
SPEAKER_03Normally they say black, don't cry.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Maybe you I I'm I'm moisturized, so you know it works out. Thank you, sir. Give that out with uh all those other lesson plans too. Yeah, absolutely. My my hydration secrets.
SPEAKER_00But uh yeah, thanks guys for tuning in. Uh, episode eight with Ryan Williams. Um, you know, check them out, keep following up. Uh, Industry Threadworks, Liberty Risk Podcast. Um, lots of good stuff to come, as you heard. So thanks again. And and Ryan, man, thanks thanks for coming out.
SPEAKER_02Dude, thanks for having me, man. It's been fun.
SPEAKER_00That's it for this episode of Light Duty. Before you head out, don't forget to check out Core Medical Group. They're doing great things in the veteran community. If you need to get your labs done, give them a call or visit their website. Tell them you heard about them on Light Duty Podcast, and they'll take $100 off your blood work. You're looking at $199 out of pocket or $99 through insurance. Take care of yourselves, and we'll catch you on the next one.