Teaching Teens to Face Social Anxiety (Without Avoidance) - Kaci Jacobellis

In this episode of Extending Branches, Dr. Mike Courtney talks with counselor Kaci Jacobellis, ALPC, about social anxiety in teens and how parents can help. 

They explain the difference between normal social nervousness and diagnosable social anxiety, why adolescence can intensify fear of judgment or rejection, and how social media can add pressure through comparison. Kaci shares practical tools for parents, including staying curious instead of critical, helping teens challenge harsh self-talk, and using “scaffolding” so teens can take small, supported steps forward instead of avoiding social situations.

Extending Branches is a biweekly podcast from Branches, a nonprofit dedicated to helping people recover hope, find healing, and experience growth through Christ-centered mental and emotional care.

Thanks for joining us! You can find us online at branches.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

One of my earliest memories of answered prayer was in the fifth grade. We had moved in the middle of the year. My first day in the new school, I was in PE class. We were in the gym playing kickball. I was in right field, which is where the kids that are terrible go, or the ones that nobody knows. I was in right field and I prayed, God help me to make a good play so that I can make some friends. I had no sooner prayed that prayer than the biggest kid in the class kicked a booming ball up through the rafters of the gym. Somehow it came down right in my arms. He was out. I was the hero of the day. It was just an amazing thing. Have you ever been in those moments where you just you just wonder if you really fit in? Is anybody gonna like me? What what what should I say? I'm too awkward for this situation. Well, that's just part of the human experience. That's what it means to be a human being. We care about people and how they care about us. But sometimes that feeling just doesn't come and go. It it sticks around and it grows and it can turn even ordinary awkward moments, conversations, meetings, small talk, into horrific, terrifying, uh, paralyzing, catastrophic social, socially awkward moments. We would call it social anxiety. It's important to know that social anxiety isn't a character flaw. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you or or you're less than in some way. It's it's just kind of our desire to to try harder to be more liked. In a way, it comes from the fact that God made us to be connected to one another, our desire to know and be known, to be accepted. But somewhere along the way, that desire gets all tangled up with fear. The fear of being judged, the fear of saying the wrong thing, the fear of not being accepted, fear of not measuring up. And instead of drawing us closer to people, that feeling, that fear can make us pull back. We begin to separate, isolate, uh, not feel like we belong at all. That tension somehow touches us very, very deeply, and if we're not careful, can make us anything but what God desired for us to be. We're gonna talk today about teaching your teens to take it easy. Casey Jacob Ellis, one of our great counselors, is gonna talk to us about social anxiety. I'm Dr. Mike Courtney, and this is Extending Branches.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Welcome to Extending Branches, a mental health podcast committed to helping people recover hope, find healing, and experience growth. Extending Branches is a twice-monthly podcast from Branches, a nonprofit dedicated to compassionate mental and emotional health care rooted in Christ's civic values. Your host is Dr. Mike Courtney, founder of Branches. He is an author, speaker, and pastoral counselor who leads honest conversations about faith, emotional health, and real life growth. Before we jump in, a quick but important note. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a replacement for professional counseling. If you're struggling with suicidal thoughts or facing a mental health crisis, please reach out to a licensed professional or seek immediate help in your area. If you want to learn more about branches or explore support options, you can visit branches.org. We're really glad you're here. Welcome to Extending Branches.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

I am here with my good friend Casey Jacobellis. Casey is an associate licensed professional counselor, uh MHSP. We talked a little bit about neither one of us know exactly what MHSP means. But uh Casey has been here at Branches for a year. It man, it has been great to have you. I want you to know. So yeah. Um Casey, you you you started this racket as a school counselor. What what kind of made you make the change from school counselor to to to doing the kind of counseling you do now?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Well, in the school environment, um, there's just so much going on, right? There's so many different ways that uh so many different things that the kids are doing throughout their day that we we really as school counselors don't have the time to get into the deeper parts of the problems. You know, it feels like you are doing everything you can to just keep them, have them be calm and go back to class because that's you know, the learning is so important and you don't want to miss out on that. Um, unfortunately, they are dealing with these bigger issues, these bigger feelings. And I really wanted to be able to be in a place where I have the time to really help um kids, teens uh develop the skills that um they can use to deal with things like social anxiety. Um, and I just feel like this is a helping. I'm I'm better equipped in this area to give them what they need.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

You are well equipped, you're doing a great job here. My daughter-in-law is a guidance counselor, and uh she's she says we are managers more than anything else. Sometimes we're just managing the the day, managing the curriculum, managing the time and all that. So I understand that. Well, we're we're certainly glad that God prompted that change in you and brought you to us. I I'll I I'll stick this in there. You have two daughters of your own. So I'm sure some of what you saw in the school, you were also watching in your own girls and thinking I'd like to be able to help people through this and all that. So yeah. Good. Well, I so I I started by telling a little story about my own experience with social anxiety. It wasn't the only one by any means, but but just what is it? What do what do we have in mind when we talk about social anxiety?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Well, social anxiety from like a diagnosable situation is where you have that intense fear of social situations. There's uh free uh fear around being embarrassed, judged, being rejected. Um, and so when it's at that level, the brain will see social situations as dangerous and not just oh slightly uncomfortable, but danger, even though we know they're physically safe, right? And the kid might could logically tell you, like, oh, I'm physically safe, but they're interpreting that situation as danger. Um, but like you mentioned, um, that's the extreme, but all people are going to experience some form of appropriate social nervousness. Um, you know, like you mentioned, moving to a new school or meeting a new friend group, you know, um, there's a lot of um misdiagnosis around social anxiety, disorder, and it's important to for everyone to recognize that there is some commonality that all people have um when it's going to new places or meeting new people.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So you use the word disorder, so so there's social anxiety that that we just do, but that it reaches a level when it would be diagnosable and it might be in a DSM V or something like that. So yeah, yeah. Uh do you do you see good things? Are there are there good things that that anxiety brings? I mean, I'm thinking that sometimes that helps me to focus better, it helps me to to not say dumb things. Hardly ever does that. I usually say dumb things, but but do you see sometimes this anxiety can be a little bit good?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Sure. I think when that anxiety is present, it just shows that uh that you care. You know, you care about people. Um, you want to to bring goodness into your community, right? Um, and we all have you know propensity to mess up sometimes, but um having that anxiety shows um a desire for friendships and communities and wanting to treat people well, and so yeah, there can be good things in that, sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Well, Casey, I I know this surprises you, but I'm not a teenager. Um, I used to be one, and I rem I remember uh even now there'll be moments where I feel socially anxious about things, but as a teenager, it's especially hard. Is is that true? And if so, why is it true? What is it about our teenage years that makes social anxiety such an issue?

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Well, the teenage years is developmentally, you know, you reach a point where that belonging need is so important, and that just coincides with the teenage years. Yeah, and our brains are not in that place where we're making the the prefrontal cortex, right, is not completely developed. So it's hard for us to look at social interactions from a logical perspective. And so when there is peer rejection, you know, we don't see that just as someone else's opinion. We can take that opinion on ourselves and it can view and it can um sort of taint how we view ourselves. Um, but I will say, you know, from working with kids, you it teen um don't take that too literally because this can happen as young as you know, fourth grade and maybe even younger. It really just sort of depends on the the child. Um, you know, when children are little and they'll go on the playground at a park and they'll play with anyone, they don't, they're not self-conscious, right? That kicks in for everyone um at some point. And it's just developmentally an appropriate, you know, how it happens. It's there's just how it works, how our brains are developed.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I I don't know this to be true, but I would think also with the onset of social media, kids are on their phone, they're you know, I mean, six-year-olds are on their phone nowadays, they're comparing all of that has to also have expedited this onslaught of social anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Sure. You know, we already are entering into a time where we become more self-conscious, and then when we see uh things, you know, on social media, whether it's peers or people we don't know, and we begin to make that comparison. You know, when when I was in school, um if I had a day where I felt rejected from peers, I could go home and kind of have a reprieve from that, you know. Um, but now um if you you could go home and potentially continue to have to interact with those peers or be rejected by those peers, um, and so you never really get a break from it or even get a chance to see yourself in a different perspective because that's following you. And at the same time, if um you know there's you're not constantly on your phone or connected, then there may be things you feel like you're missing out on. And so it's it's just a yeah, it's complicated.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

They're talking about these things, and I don't have that, I don't know what happened. I missed that. Or even things like social media, like memes or you know, jokes that are occurring, they talk about that at school, and if the kid doesn't know about it, it could it can also be isolating. So it's very it makes things very complicated.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Well, I I appreciate you. I admire you. I've uh well all of our counselors kind of have a different nation. Every once in a while, someone will say, Will you work with teenagers? I say, Absolutely not. I teens don't have brains or souls, so I'm not gonna work with them. But uh you have really taken that on and and done such a great job. What do you say as a counselor when when teenagers come to you or even your own girls, when they come to you and I don't fit in, nobody likes me, uh, this is the end of the world for me. What do you say to teenagers to help them cope with this social anxiety?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Well, there's a few things. Um, first of all, I think being really careful to be curious about what's going on with them and not judgmental. I mean, as we mentioned, this is not like what we grew up with. And so it's hard for us. I don't think we fully know how much it uh impacts, like we talked about with social media. I don't think we fully understand the impacts of that at this point in time. So just being more curious about what's going on with them instead of well, just go, you'll be fine. That's not helpful. Um, also asking questions like, okay, uh, tell me what it's like when you first get to this place. How does it feel? Okay, and then after they describe that, do you notice that these feelings get better over time? And that's a really key kind of idea to know, okay, is this um is this just appropriate developmental nervousness? You know, if it gets better over time, then most likely, you know, and also they're gaining skills during that time to help themselves through those situations. If it's not getting better over time and they report to you they're having the same level of anxiety throughout the social event, then that might be a time to look for some other kinds of for help in another in a maybe in a counseling.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Um, but typically also you mentioned, you know, if they're saying those kinds of things, you know, I don't fit in, is is let's challenge that belief a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Um, it's really more helpful if you can guide them to come up with their own answers instead of giving it to them.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

That's dumb, that'll be right, right.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

They won't necessarily appreciate your answer, but if you ask them, okay, so if this was your friend who felt exactly the same way you do, right? What would you tell your friend? We typically are kinder to our friends than we are to ourselves, you know. So just take a second now and let's talk to yourself like a friend. Um, and that just opens up the perspective too, you know, of it we can become so focused on ourselves that we don't recognize all of the opportunities we have to make this situation better.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Wow, that's good. So you're really giving them an opportunity to kind of explore those feelings a little bit more, understand a little bit, kind of normalize it, you know. I went through that. Your friends probably go through that, and then also give them a chance to to test themselves. Let's try, let's just try it, just go and see how you oh that's good. That's really it's really important. So I how do you how do you know that fine line once we've talked about that, we've we've normalized a little bit, we've given the chance. How how do you know when to finally say, okay, now just go do it, you know? We because we know it's better for them, go out there. How when when do you say that? Okay, just go try it.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

First of all, I think it's important to recognize that avoidance doesn't really help anything in the long run. So when we avoid, so what happens is our brains are, you know, we think like we talked about our brains are seeing the situation as danger, and we have all those symptoms of worry with the butterflies and the sweaty and the heart racing.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And what happens kind of like you felt about coming into the world. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yes, exactly. And so what happens is when you, as the parent, let your child just say, okay, just don't worry about it, which all immediately those symptoms go away. So, but what we're teaching our brain is, hey, you were right, brain. I was in danger all along, right? So by actually encouraging them to at least participate to some degree, that gives their brain the opportunity to say, oh, wait, this isn't dangerous. I can do this. And like I mentioned before, it's giving them the skills and the experience to do even more. So start off small, especially if your st your child is already in that avoidant phase, because that's another way you can know. Like, do they start avoiding social situations? Sometimes even to the extent like they're not gonna go with you to the store or they can't order for themselves at a restaurant, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Um, before they're gonna force to go abroad.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

So, you know, help them start off small. Um, whether it's okay, today we're gonna go to to lunch and I want you to order, but before, before the before he the waiter comes, we'll practice it together, you know. So give some scaffolding. Um, maybe it's hey, I really think it's important, you know, I at this time of year I hear a lot about church camp, okay? And that's such a big thing, and and kids can learn so much and grow in their faith and in their friendships, but they're terrified, right? Yeah. And obviously we can't control this in every situation, but but hey, let's invite the for this friend to go, you know, that does so many things to just settle and calm that um your the child. Um, obviously we can't always do those things, but it is helpful to talk through with them like what are the benefits, you know. Um, but I love that concept of scaffolding because we're not letting them off the hook. We're giving the brain the chance to say, you're not dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Build some framework around.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

But you're also, you know, you're you're your child's advocate at that point, and you're on their side. So they don't see you as just someone, something else they have to overcome.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

That's good. That's great, Casey. I wish I'd had you there in the fifth grade when I was trying to catch that ball. Absolutely. That's neat. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. We are we're blessed to have you here. And the the kid, now you see people other than just teens, but the teens that come see you are blessed, I know. So thank you. Well, we've talked about uh teaching your teens to take a little break, the to get away from the the struggles of social media. Two or three things that come to my mind from what Casey has said to us. Number one, there's not something wrong with you, you're not flawed. This is a very natural thing that that all of us at one time or another have gone through. The second thing is I I love that Casey said, be curious about it, be willing to ask questions, ask questions of your teens, ask questions of your friends, ask questions of yourself. Why do I feel so nervous about this? Why does this make me so upset? And then the third thing is I like the idea of scaffolding, of kind of coming alongside, building a support around, but but try the thing. You know, let's see if there's not a way to do this. Uh what an important conversation to have about uh social anxiety and and and how we can overcome that. Uh the psalmist says that you're fearfully and wonderfully made. God knew this about you, He planned all of this in you, so He certainly can help you to make your way through it. I want to thank Casey Jacob Ellis for being a part of this today, and thank you for being a part of this. Thanks for joining us on Extending Branches. Extending Branches is a twice-a-month podcast. It's produced by Branches. It's intended to help you find hope, experience healing, and enjoy growth in your life and your walk with God. If you'd like to know more about branches or find some previous Extending Branches episode or some of the other things that we've done, go to branches.org. Also, we would love it if this has been helpful for you to like, share the podcast, follow us, all those podcast things that you're supposed to do, whatever platform you're on to let people know about extending branches. Jesus said, I am the vine and you're the branches. Our goal here is to extend that to as many people as we possibly can. Thanks for being a part of this branch today.