Performance Anxiety and the Search for True Identity - Chandler Coley

In this episode of Extending Branches, Dr. Mike Courtney sits down with counselor Chandler Coley to talk about performance anxiety: what happens when pressure crosses the line from helpful focus into fear, panic, and self-doubt. Drawing from Chandler’s experience as a former athlete and his work as a counselor, they explore why teens and adults alike can tie their worth to a single moment, whether on the field, on the stage, or in everyday life.

Together, they discuss practical tools like deep breathing, noticing the inner critic, reframing anxious thoughts, visualization, and gratitude. Most importantly, they point back to the truth that our identity is not found in performance, success, or failure, but in Christ.

Extending Branches is a biweekly podcast from Branches, a nonprofit dedicated to helping people recover hope, find healing, and experience growth through Christ-centered mental and emotional care.

Thanks for joining us! You can find us online at branches.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I was in the seventh grade playing Little League Baseball. I wasn't great, but I had played a lot and I was okay. And one time I stepped up to bat. It was late in the game. There was a lot riding on my bat, and and something happened like it had never happened before. I'm looking at the picture, I'm looking around. There were probably 12 people in the stands. But all of a sudden, it felt like there were a thousand people there. And every one of them was looking right at me. And the thoughts in my head just started getting louder and louder and louder. Don't mess up. Whatever you do, don't strike out. Everyone's watching you. You've got to do this. You have to come through. All of a sudden, I like it had never happened before. What was a pretty simple thing just felt anything but simple. This is an episode that I want to call panic at the plate. We've all had those moments where we're getting ready to make a speech, or we have a presentation at the office, or we're in the middle of a ball game, something, and all of a sudden, panic just begins to set in. Anxiety takes hold of us. The simple stage, the thing that we had done so many times, all of a sudden now becomes so difficult and almost impossible to do. Here's the thing: a little pressure is normal. It can even be helpful. It can help you to perform better, to think more clearly, to be a little stronger. It sharpens our focus, it gives us some energy. But when that pressure crosses a line, when it begins to take over, it becomes anxiety, something that doesn't just sit in the background, but it steps in and begins to take over the moment. When that happens, it's not just physical, it's it's internal. Something is happening in our beady little brains. Body speeds up, the mind fills with noise, we we can't focus, our confidence begins to shrink. And instead of being free and relaxed and doing the thing that we love to do and doing it easily, instead we just tighten up and give way to fear. Now, that happens to all of us. We are especially susceptible when we are young and playing sports. I guess we would call it performance anxiety, just our identity and our worth being tied to that. But what you do with that, how you respond to that, not only affects you in those teenage years, but down through life. Today I'm going to talk to Chandler Coley, who is just one of our great counselors and who has some experience. I don't know whether it's panic at the plate, but certainly experience in athletics, but also in working with people in this area of performance anxiety. We uh we believe that God's desire is for you to live free, that he can set you free. And I hope that this conversation helps you not to focus not so much on performance, but on the peace that he has for you. I'm Dr. Mike Courtney, and this is Extending Branches.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Welcome to Extending Branches, a mental health podcast committed to helping people recover hope, find healing, and experience growth. Extending Branches is a twice-monthly podcast from Branches, a nonprofit dedicated to compassionate mental and emotional health care rooted in Christ and values. Your host is Dr. Mike Courtney, founder of Branches. He is an author, speaker, and leads honest conversations about faith, emotional health, and real life growth. Before we jump in, a quick but important note. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a replacement for professional counseling. If you're struggling with suicidal thoughts or facing a mental health crisis, please reach out to a licensed professional or seek immediate help in your area. If you want to learn more about branches or explore support options, you can visit branches.org. We're really glad you're here. Welcome to Extending Branches.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

We were laughing a while ago about not being sure what that stands for. It stands for mental health service provider. Which which gives you the ability to diagnose. Correct, correct. Yeah. So good. Well, oh Channel, thank you for being here. I've I've looked forward to having this conversation with you. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here. Now, I I do have to confess that I don't like you. Uh Chandler is he's young, he's nice looking, he's athletic. Probably never known performance anxiety. You've never had panic at the plate. Never, never. Okay, so we have no idea what we're talking about. So now you are a a you're a great counselor, first of all. We're we're blessed at branches to have you, but you're uh a a former athlete. I shouldn't say former athlete, you're young enough, you're still an athlete, but a but a former fit.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Former fits, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Um what about that? I mean, do you uh we'll we'll talk a little bit about what it is, but did you ever have those moments where you just kind of your eyes wouldn't focus and you couldn't catch your breath? Did you ever experience that?

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Oh yeah. Uh for me, it it would have been panic on the mound. It doesn't have quite the same ring to it as panic at the mound. Yeah, that's right. It fits better. I'm like, but uh, oh my gosh, yes. Um, I felt like so much was riding on each pitch and that the wins and losses were determined by how well I performed.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

And that placed a tremendous amount of pressure on me. So there were definitely times where, especially even before a start, I would find myself just not able to sleep because I was so worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Wow. You know, so it's interesting. Let me ask you about that, because you chose to be a pitcher. I mean, it's it's one thing, you know, I'm I'm I play right field, nobody ever hits it the right field, you know. I can play there and probably if I'm batting seventh in the lineup, only get up twice a game. But you chose to be in a position where in many ways everything did right on every single pitch. How is that that uh contradiction between feeling the panic but also wanting to be on the mound? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

It well, I would say it more so chose me. So I'm left-handed. So yeah, okay. With my height, you're either the the third string first baseman or uh you're a pitcher. So it kind of uh fell into my lap, and part of me did enjoy having the control of okay, I'm gonna have my fingerprints all over this game. Um, but there was a saying I heard for someone, it's not the most helpful thing to tell yourself, but you can't win a game by yourself when you're pitching, but you can certainly lose it all by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

That will bring some anxiety here. It sure will. Yeah, that's interesting. So what is it, Chandler? What would you how would you define performance anxiety? What are we talking about when we talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Yeah, well, I think, and you mentioned this uh when we started, but it it comes from fear. Okay. Fear is a good God-given emotion that's designed to tell us whenever there's a threat around us. Yes. What happens with performance anxiety and anxiety in general is oftentimes our body thinks there's a threat when in reality it's not there.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

I'm not really gonna lose this game on this one pitch, but I I sure feel like it.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yes. And normally performance anxiety tends to center around a specific task. Uh so for me back in the day, it would have been pitching, but like you mentioned, whether you're a child, a teen, or an adult, even if you're an adult, I mean, if you have a big uh presentation coming up, or you're singing in front of people for the first time, it's gonna be around for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Do you do you learn it? I mean, in other words, are there times where I don't really feel that and then I do, and it begins to get begins to grow, begins to get worse and worse and worse. Is that the case sometimes?

SPEAKER_02 8:24

I think it certainly can be that way. Um, I think if you notice performance anxiety and it happens in a specific situation, then oftentimes you begin to associate that situation with anxiety, and you're kind of predestined in your own mind to experience it again.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah. So you kind of teach yourself okay, see, that really was a bad situation, so it's gonna be a bad situation. You gotta do that more and more and more. I, you know, the great thing I had going for me is I was never good enough at athletes, at athletics, that it might mattered much, but I've always been kind of on the platform and speaking and that kind of thing. And there have been those times where it just all of a sudden you feel like, man, the the fate of the universe rises and falls on how well I do in this presentation. And most of the time when you're feeling that, you're not gonna do very well. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Absolutely. It um it's something that once you get to that point, you place so much pressure on yourself, you go beyond the butterflies, which yeah, that's a good and normal thing. It just means that you care. At that point, you've almost gone beyond to where you're placing more importance on that thing than it really should have.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

So it you said it can happen to anybody in in any life situations, not determined by age, but it does seem like in our teenage years we were far more susceptible to this. Why is that? What is there about being a teenager that makes us feel like that everybody in the world is looking at us when we when we step up to the plate? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Well, I think teenagers, and this is certainly true for me, you're still trying to figure out who you are, what your identity is. And if you would have met me back in the day, I would have said, hi, I'm Chandler, I'm a baseball player. It it was a massive part of my identity. I wore the sweatpants, wore the shirt, and I love talking about baseball. So in my head, senior year, I'm thinking, okay, if I pitch poorly, then that means I could lose my spot and then I could lose part of my identity. Wow. So then it's become more than just an at-bat. At that point, I'm fighting off the threat of losing a huge part of my identity.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Yeah. Wow. That makes me nervous. I'm not even at the plate, and it makes me nervous just thinking about all that. So you what do you do? What do you what do you say to that teenager that you're and you you counsel far more than teenagers now, but you do see teenagers, and I know you have an affinity for for athletes and that. W what do you what do you say to help them when they are feeling that kind of angst about what what it is they're that they that they love to do, they want to do it, but having troubles doing it.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Well, it makes it easy working at a place like branches where we're able to actually talk about where your true identity comes from. Good. And that's your identity in Christ. And once you recognize that that can't be taken away from you from a bad game, that'll make it a little bit easier, but that can also tend to be a longer process. In terms of what we talk about of immediate things they can do, breathing is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Oftentimes getting lightheaded, if you experience that, you are taking very rapid, short breaths from your chest instead of long, deep breaths from your stomach. Uh, so whether it's walking up to the plate and taking time before you really step into the box to take a few deep breaths, that's always good. Another thing I'd like to ask is what does the voice in your head say? We'll call them the critic. We all have one that really mean voice that tells us that we're no good, that we're gonna mess up. If we can start to notice what that voice is saying, then we can start to catch it and reframe it into something more positive. So, really the fundamentals of CBT there.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

CBT is cognitive behavior therapy.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah, yeah. Uh, it's interesting. So it's CBT, that's just so smart, so psychological. Jesus said long before that, get thee behind me, Satan. First of all, I'm not gonna listen to that voice anymore. And then he had Paul say, Whatever things are good, what other things are noble, what are things are good reports. Think on those things. Just don't think about that negative voice, think think on the better voice. So that's good. So taking deep breaths, there's a there's a physical component to this. Asking yourself, what are the voices saying? There's kind of this mental, emotional component to this. Um as that begins to subside, are there some things that we can do to to preemptively that we can say, hey, before this happens, I'm gonna learn to talk to myself or something?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Yeah, absolutely. Uh one thing that I've found to be effective is taking time the day before to envision you doing the thing that you are so afraid of. Yeah. And envision yourself doing it successfully. So then when you find yourself in that situation, well, you've already done it nine or ten times and it's gone really well.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah. Boy, that's good. I uh I should have thought about this podcast yesterday and thought through it and see if I I didn't see it turning out like this. You don't need it, you don't get nervous. I am, you know, it it is funny that there, this is where we I'll get it sidetracked here. But there are some things, maybe for you it was athlete, there are some things that I think God gives us that we just don't get nervous about. I don't think. My wife is an amazing pianist, and she sits down and plays a piano, never thinks about it. She could play in front of thousands of people, never think about it. The thought of standing up and introducing herself to those people would scare her to death. I say, man, let me talk to them, but to put me in front of keyboard, I'd be scared to death. So there are some things in our lives where where God protects us maybe from that, I think.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

So And really some of that, um, you know, I'm not a life coach, so I'm not an expert in the Arno profile, but some of that may just be your God-given temperament, as far as some of us are more comfortable in certain situations than in others.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Boy, that's good to recognize that there are some people that they just tend to be a little more anxious. That's okay. You're not flawed, there's not something wrong with you, but that that tends to be your your personality, I guess. So absolutely. So when I'm a teenager at the plate, I've learned some things I can do, breathe more deeply, think about the voice in my head, vision it before that happens. That all helps me when I'm 17 years old. What about when I'm 70 years old and worried about the presentation I have to make at church or the or the the job performance thing that I uh performance evaluation? Are these still effective even in later seasons in life?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

They absolutely are. Uh, there's no expiration date on those coping skills. Yeah. Um, I've also found gratitude to be something that's very helpful. Um and you'll have to help me out on the Bible verse, but don't be anxious about anything but with supplication and prayer, make your request known to God.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, and actually, but with Thanksgiving and everything, with Thanksgiving and prayer, make your request known to God. Yeah, Philippians chapter four. Uh what a great reminder. See CBT's been around a long time, but this other stuff's been around a lot longer than that. That's good, Tana. That's great. Well, I really appreciate you, and and you don't this isn't part of the company line, you know. But I appreciate you saying, you know, it's really a God thing. It's finding your identity in him and seeing what he wants to do for you. That's true when you're 17, it's true when you're 70. So that's that's important. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Absolutely. It's so good to to be reminded of what your identity is in. And honestly, that's a choice that you have to make daily. There are plenty of days where I forget to make that choice, and I think, well, I didn't do my best job counseling today. And that can bring up performance anxiety for the next day. If I don't remember that, God's gonna love me no matter what, and he's the one who does the healing, not me. And that takes that performance anxiety and just throws it out the window.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

That's good. Yeah, thank you, Tamma. That's really good.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

You're so welcome.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Uh, let me ask you one thing about identity. Uh if you finished first or second in the branch's March Madness basketball pole, does God love one of those people more than the other?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

I mean, I think you'll have to help me out on this too, but I think somewhere in the Bible it says something about finishing first. You are loved more.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah. And it was Chandler that finished first. That's good. Chandler, thank you so much. Thanks for being a part of this.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Oh, I really was honored you asked. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Good, good. Chandler is a great counselor, and we are fortunate to have him. He has experience on the athletic field, performance anxiety. He has also worked his way through it and done a great job as an athlete, as a as a man in life, and as a counselor here. And he helps people every day working through these kinds of issues. So it's been fun to be with him. There are two or three things that I take away from my conversation with Chandler. One is that we all have a tendency to measure our value or our worth based on that particular moment. If I do this well, I'm a good person. If I can't throw strikes, I'm a terrible person. We all have that tendency, that that uh pent, the penchant to do that. Uh, just don't. Don't do that. That's not where your value and your worth lies. The second thing is that when that feeling is on the inside, there's no amount of performance on the outside that's going to change that. We've got to, we've got to fix that on the inside, which leads me to the third thing that Chandler said, and I'm so grateful. Your identity comes in Jesus Christ. I love what John says in 1 John 3. Behold what manner of love the Father has for us, that he allows us to be called his little children. Whether I can throw strikes or not, or make a good speech or not, or finish first in the March Madness basketball poll or not, it doesn't matter. I am a child of God and He delights in me and loves me. I'm I'm so glad that we got to have this conversation. Uh, we have some more information about anxiety that you can find on the branches website, and I hope that you'll go there and look for that. Thank you for joining us on Extending Branches. Extending Branches is a twice-a-month podcast that's produced by Branches. It's intended to help people find hope, to experience healing, and to enjoy growth in your life and walk with God. If you'd like to know more about branches or about the topic that Chandra and I talked about, or things that we've done in the past, past podcast episodes, you can go to branches.org and find out all you need to know about us there. Also, we would love it if you like this podcast, that you would share it with somebody, that you would like it, that you would give us a leave a rating for us, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Jesus said, I'm the vine and you are the branches. Our goal is to keep extending branches.