The Perfect Father - Bill Robison

In this episode of Extending Branches, Dr. Mike Courtney sits down with pastoral counselor and life coach Bill Robison to talk about the father wound: how a father’s presence, absence, words, and example can shape identity, confidence, relationships, and the way we approach fatherhood ourselves.

Together, they discuss the impact of unmet needs, the importance of taking responsibility, and how humility, forgiveness, and faithful presence can begin repairing what has been broken. Most importantly, they point to God as the perfect Father—the One who meets us in our pain, restores what was lost, and helps us build a new legacy of love, grace, and hope.

Bill and his wife, Tracey Robison, are also the authors of He Calls Me Daughter, a Scripture-rooted resource for women seeking healing from the father wound and a deeper understanding of God’s love.

Learn more: https://amzn.to/3RTcbmd

Extending Branches is a biweekly podcast from Branches, a nonprofit dedicated to helping people recover hope, find healing, and experience growth through Christ-centered mental and emotional care.

Thanks for joining us! You can find us online at branches.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

In the 20th century, we went through some cultural changes that dramatically impacted the way we view fatherhood and our fathers. Now, I confess this is the historical gospel according to me, but I believe that it's true. In the 1930s, the depression drove many families off of the farm, away from the extended family, so they could find work in the cities. And so to a certain extent, our fathers left their heritage. They had to go away from their fathers and find a life of their own in the cities. In the 1940s, the great, second great world war came, World War II, and our fathers left our home. They left a heritage in the 30s, their home in the 40s, where they had to go off to war. Even the fathers that didn't go off to war were engaged in a full-fledged focus on saving our nation. In the 1950s, the fathers had left our heritage, they'd left our home. They left our hearts. It was the rock and roll, James Dean, rebellious generation, and the fathers that once had such a place in our hearts now had no place at all, and we were rebelling against the establishment. That went even further in the 60s with the hippie generation and the stand against the authority, the rejection of anything that spoke of authoritarianism, and so the fathers left our heads. They became irrelevant. They weren't important at all. And we began to see, even in the 70s, we began to see television programs and sitcoms that portrayed fathers as buffoons and unimportant. So what has happened over the last 50 years is that we've experienced a generation of fatherless fathers. We've experienced men who did not have role models. They had no emotional vocabulary. No one taught them how to affirm a son or to cherish a daughter, to apologize or nurture or stay emotionally stable, even to stay present. Many of our fathers loved us deeply, but they just didn't know what they didn't know. And they didn't know how to show us in ways that it could be received. We have a name for that. We call it the father wound. And many of the fathers that I speak to in this generation are still reeling from sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind. And now we all are experiencing the father wound. Today my guest is Bill Robinson. Bill is a pastoral counselor here at Branches. He's a life coach. He and his wife Tracy have been a part of Branches from the very beginning. And Bill has a very unique story about his own father wound and how that came to be and how God has helped him to overcome that. I'm excited to have this conversation that's probably meaningful for everybody who listens, but especially for every man. You know what it's like to know the father wound. My name is Dr. Mike Courtney, and this is Extending Branches.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Welcome to Extending Branches, a mental health podcast committed to helping people recover hope, find healing, and experience growth. Extending Branches is a twice-monthly podcast from Branches, a nonprofit dedicated to compassionate mental and emotional health care rooted in Christ's values. Your host is Dr. Mike Courtney, founder of Branches. He is an author, speaker, and pastoral counselor who leads honest conversations about faith, emotional health, and real life growth. Before we jump in, a quick but important note. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a replacement for professional counseling. If you're struggling with suicidal thoughts or facing a mental health crisis, please reach out to a licensed professional or seek immediate help in your area. If you want to learn more about branches or explore support options, you can visit branches.org. We're really glad you're here. Welcome to Extending Branches.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Hey Bill. Hey Mike, that was a very kind introduction that you just made. Good. I'll just say uh I'd be remiss if uh didn't acknowledge of the men in my life. You're on the very short list.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Well, I appreciate that. Well, and that's kind of what we're gonna talk about. So so thanks for saying that. Uh before we do, we've we've been at this for a long, long time. We've been friends. I remember going to uh I don't know what what the name of it now, Adelphia Stadium or Nissan Stadium or what we're gonna and watching you compete in a in a in a race. Okay, it was hot and and you were just flying. I just remember going and watching that. That was neat. That was fun. Yeah. A while back. So yeah. Do you do do you cycle much now?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

I really don't, Mike. I I will at home, indoors, just to have some kind of fitness at the least bit. But as far as competing and all that, uh those kind of days are behind me for a while.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

There comes a time where, you know, my mind says I can still do it. My body says, no, no way. Yeah, I'm reminded of that frequently. So yeah, I totally get it. Well, we we have picked, I I don't know if you picked it or I picked it, but but we have kind of some shared interest in this. We've picked a topic today that I just think is so important for for everybody, but particularly for any man that would would watch this, and that is this idea of father wound. It seems like in our culture, in our day and age, that almost every man has a story about their father. I always say either they grow up saying, I'm gonna be just like my old man, or I'm gonna be nothing like my old man. But in any case, their old man has shaped their identity and who they are. Do you find that in your counseling, this idea of father wound a lot?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Oh, absolutely. I a lot of times I'll say some of the men that I just see in puddles, they're balled up on a couch. So usually it has to do with something where they're either wounded overtly from dad or they didn't receive something that they needed to. So that absolutely affects the way they see themselves and the way they engage with others.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah, and that's a good point because these guys say, no, I had a good father, I had a good dad. And they and and what they mean by that was there was nothing that he did to me, right, but then what they realize is, but there were some things that I didn't get that it would have been nice if I if I if I got that. It's also interesting that you're right, the big, big old burly guys that man never shed a tear, and they come in and they start talking about their about their father wound.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yes, and that's yeah, you're they start touching on some of those type of things, and you can just see a really raw level of pain. Yeah, you normally don't. Yeah. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Well, speaking of raw, uh, do you mind uh you know, part of part of why I invited you into this is your own story of your of your father and very interesting. Do you mind kind of must start with that? Don't we?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Absolutely, absolutely. I um my story, as you know, is is fairly rare. Um, I was born um to two parents, obviously. Um that had I was their second child. Um my older brother is 17 years older than.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

I'm trying to say quite a bit older than you.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, same parents, and that's that's a lot of times I'll be a step sibling, step step sister step situation, but um, no, both same parents. He's 17 years older. So my my father was 45, my mom was 42 when I was born. Um, my dad um was a World War II hero. Um, you know, obviously my hero had a congenital heart disease that he battled for the major, I mean the majority of his adult life, um, which took him untimely. Um so he passed away when I was nine. Yeah. Um, and you know, just as as I've been, I know uh Tracy's podcast came out today, and you all talked about the book that we just wrote. And so in that I've been really thinking a lot lately about how that how that impacted me. But um, you know, many ways our fathers can wound us, wound us. Um, and as you mentioned earlier, sometimes it's it's nothing overt, but it was things we didn't receive. And that was that was the case for me. So from from my the wound that I received from my dad predominantly was just absence. And yeah, it's not something he chose to do or he meant to do or anything like that, but just due to the fact that at nine years old my father was gone and here I am to to face adolescence and going into adulthood without that type of model, that type of affirmation affected me.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah. Um we we will talk about it and we'll uh in case I forget, let me just say here, we'll put something in the show notes to remind people of the book that you and Tracy wrote called He Calls Me Daughter. But that's interesting that the that father wound, it's not just for not just for boys, right? That that daughters can very adversely be affected by by their relationship with their father. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah. And I think that's something too that um, you know, not to get off on a soapbox, but I think something we see more and more in our culture. Yeah. Um, some people may not agree with this, but I I I see it to be true. A lot of times fathers sometimes are portrayed as being expendable. Yeah. It's you know, that that maybe the role is is not necessary, not important, but it plays a significant role, and I think that's by God's design. Yeah. Um imparts things that a mom, mothers are wonderful, but the dad imparts things on his children that a mother just can't, yeah, and vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

So that's exactly right. And I talked about earlier on in the introduction to this that that culturally we made that move from fathers being so important, living on the farm, everything, everything is centered around the father figure until we slowly drift away, until in the in the 70s and 80s, the the sitcoms, the things on television where fathers were buffoons. A lot of times they were absent. But if they were present, they were the foolish butt of the joke. And and culturally, we've kind of made fathers to be insignificant and inconsequential. It's just not true. So yeah. Yeah. So so what does it look like for you when you when you talk to people or even in your own life, what are some of the symptoms that you see? That guy has a father wound. What what are some of the things that you look for in that?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Well, it could be a number of things. I think one one way that a lot of times it may present is maybe just an avoidance of responsibility. Sometimes as uh as a young man starts um aging and maturing, a lot of times we're saying I think what we're seeing is a just a reluctance to take responsibility. So we're seeing a lot of um, I guess, delayed um maturation. Yeah, yeah, like failure launch, those type of things that can be I think a lot of times that can be that can be present. Um maybe things like just um indecisiveness, a lack of confidence, those types of things. I think because a dad, um a big, a big part of a dad's role is is to to impart that and and yeah, help their help their child feel confident and taking a level of um appropriate risks and those type of things. So those are those are pretty common.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Well, we we have stories, and but our fathers had stories. So they didn't have especially now in our generation. Well, I shouldn't lump you, in your generation. I'm a generation ahead of you. But but our our fathers didn't have fathers, and their fathers didn't, and so now we're three or four generations into this where they didn't see men take responsibility or or have confidence, that kind of thing. And so I I think we are just kind of reaping the the whirlwind of that. I uh I have something, I'll try this out on you. I have something I use with people all the time as we talk about this. I say, I I believe this is true, that God created our parents, he created mothers to teach us intimacy. That is about feeling safe and knowing that that there's somebody that loves me. If nobody else in the world loves me, my mom loves me. And no, and and that idea of intimacy. Fathers, so intimacy from a mother's fathers, he created to give us identity. And and he said to Adam, name the animals. It's that it's been the job. And identity is about value and worth. And if I didn't have that, right, then it is hard for me to be confident or to take responsibility when I don't when I don't have that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

You know, in my story, I think in the ways that I didn't have identity in terms of self-confidence and those type of things, I think what's a large part a resultant of my dad's absence, one thing that he did really well was he imparted identity in me and being a part of my family. Oh, good. One thing that he would always do is, you know, he if something was hard or something that I always remember him saying, but we're Robisons. And that was something I could always, I don't know what that means, but yeah, but to hear him say that, I'd be like, yes, I am. And so that was something that I have always felt power, you know, pride in, and and yeah, that that in a way yeah he was imparting that identity in me as being a part of a larger whole than just me. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Well, so so how how did you begin to see that unfold that you have two children, there they are adults now, and uh very successful, highly, you know, highly uh accomplished adults. Um Marley lives in North Carolina, she kind of followed in your footsteps when we first came to know each other. You were doing medical sales and and doing a great job of that. Walker is an engineer. I remember making your wife so mad when Walker came in, he's probably third grade, and he said, he said, Dr. Mike, I did not miss a single day of school. I said, Walker, why would you do that? Why he still talks about that, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

But so accomplished. But how when did you begin to see, you know, there's some things I don't know how to do this, or I don't know how to teach them this kind of thing. Did that did that come up at all?

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Well, I think I mean for me, I think it absolutely came up when we learned we were pregnant with Marley or first. That's the end. I think I was kind of confronted with that. It was like, okay, now what? Yeah, how you know, uh I like I said, I I lived with my dad on this earth for nine years, so I I got you know, I got have memories of that, but in terms of how do I walk it out the day to day, wow um, yeah, it was quite anxiety-producing. Yeah. Um, but it was also around that time where um actually a little bit later, but um I was confronted, I was confronted or experienced a sermon series that I think of all the sermon series I've ever had in my life, probably impacted me the most.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Louis Giglio did a series probably in the early 2009s, 2010s, maybe, but called Seeing God as a perfect father. And just in that he talked about the father womb and talked about how we how we heal from that is being able to understand and own what we missed or what what what did occur, um, but always knowing that God is a perfect father and the attributes that he imparted on our earthly dads to bestow upon us that either were or weren't for whatever reason, that he's always present with and he he does provide those things. So um I think in that was powerful for me to just kind of change the way that I view myself and and do my best. And thank you. The very kind words, but yeah, I I mean I'm so far from perfect, and you know, but uh but yeah, so it I think just leaning into him is is what was m most impactful for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

That's neat. Yeah, I you know, I whether this is good news or bad news, I I do say I don't know how to heal from the father wound apart from a connection with the heavenly father. That's right. And really I'm I'm I know there are things that we both counsel people to do and we talk about identifying that in your own self, finding good role models, uh do some things, but it really boils down to f finding a heavenly father that loves you, that sees value in you and and value in you and and and connecting to that. So that's it. Yeah. So yeah. So as as now you're at this ripe old age of fathers, uh of being a father to adults, I mean what kind of lessons have you learned and and what kind of things have you taught them or have they taught you that you say, you know, I there's there's great joy in being a father now.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Oh yeah, man. So many. Um I don't know. I I I I think probably the greatest lesson that I learned is um just the importance of ownership, just yeah, being able and being willing to, when you do blow it and when you know you blow it, being willing to be humble and you know, go to them and and just acknowledge, acknowledge your wrong, acknowledge how you may have impacted them adversely and just seek forgiveness, you know. So to me, that's the probably the the the biggest one one of the biggest lessons that I've learned and try to impart and try to live up to the best that I could. That's good. So that's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

And we learn that from our relationship with God and being that we can go to him and tell him we're wrong, and we're still loved and we're still valued, so we can go to our children.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And that's I think that's a part of the what God, you know, is his charge for fathers is we are to model that level of forgiveness that that that he that he affords us. And yeah, and we're called to forgive others as well. And that's it, that's just a you know, it becomes a model to our kids. That that's just a a life posture. That's good. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Well, that's good, Bill. That's so that's so good. And you're right. It is that connection with the Heavenly Father and seeing him love us when we've blown it, that then we can we can model that for our children by saying, When I'm wrong, I I acknowledge that. So let me I have I have two things I'd like to ask about this. Um how do I help the guy who's come in and he's been a terrible father, and he and he knows it, you know. That's at least he's acknowledging, he he knows it, he's taking ownership for it. But he but I I want to start now. Maybe his kids are 15, 16, 17 years old. And and uh how do you help the guy to start now being a better father? And then we'll talk about it in a moment, but I but how do you help we we guys who are older to go back and and address the wounds that our father created? I like to talk about the first one. How do you what do you say to the guy that says, Man, I you're right, I'm listening to this podcast and I've not been a good father, haven't taken ownership, now I want to. What do I do now? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Well, you know, I think it it first starts with insight and awareness. Yeah. Maybe helping them or um to maybe to identify those ways where they feel that they have fallen short. Yeah. And I I can't change something that I don't isn't I'm not aware of is going on, and at least acknowledge and take responsibility for that for that. So to me, that would be the first step is kind of identifying these ways that that that I have missed the mark. Yeah. Um and then just it goes back to I think what I said a minute ago of just being humble enough to be open and willing to to acknowledge that and to and obviously depending upon the depth and maybe the severity or the duration of the wounding, right? Um being willing to just I my stance is I'm I'm gonna stay in that place of humil humility, yeah, and I'm gonna continue to to try to right the wrong and and understand that there's gonna be resistance, there's gonna be pain, but but I'm I'm refusing to to give up. I'm not you know, not um, and I don't I don't mean like forcing things to happen. But but you know, I'm I'm committed to I'm committed to this relationship, I'm committed to you. Yeah, I'm gonna be there and and prove myself trustworthy as long as it takes.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah, I've said to I've said to some fathers before, you know, you've spent 10, 15, 20 years creating this father wound, and you can't expect to have this heart change and for your children to acknowledge that. So give it time. You have to give God time to work, and and I do think that God works in such a way that maybe maybe I've taken 15 years to create the father wound. It's not gonna take 15 years to heal heal from it. I give it a few years and really stay patient and and as you say, be present. Yeah, God's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

You've complimented me today, and I think you're the perfect example of that of just someone who has owned his his wounding and went back and repaired his relationships with his kids. Well, I think you did that over time, you do that with persistence, and I believe it we all long for that relationship and the level that we're willing and able to do that, it's amazing to kind of repair that can happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Not saying in every case, but yeah, but yeah, and uh, you know, I'm I'm probably have some prejudice in this, but I think quite honestly, the wounds that we have gone through sometimes make us more aware, so they make us better, make us better fathers when we've when we've gone through that, right? Sounds good. Well, so here's the here's the other part. And this wasn't so much part of your story, I think, but maybe it is to a certain extent. What do we do with that father wound that our fathers have created? Maybe in your case, in my case, it was obviously much later, but my father's passed away, our fathers are dead and gone. What do we do with that father wound? And I don't wanna I don't wanna force you back. you into a corner with this. But but I feel like we that we that we have to forgive. We have to let it go. At some point we have to say, I've just released this to you. What say something about that, about forgiving our fathers. Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

And I think that's the that's just the redemptive nature of the gospel. Yeah. Is that that um you know I I sometimes I just have to choose to believe if my father hadn't known better he would have done better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

And oh that's good.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And if I can just if if if he had the tools to give me what I you know that's just that old that axiom is just so true. We can't give, we can't impart on someone else that with with which we don't have. Right. Right. So if if my dad doesn't have love for himself, it's going to be hard for him to to display love for others or or or those type of things. So I think part of it is again healing in healing my wound is um similar to what I said earlier. I have to I have to go and identify the ways that I've been impacted. Yeah. And think just sitting in that and and being willing to acknowledge that and letting that healing process take place, whether it's sitting with someone else or um a group of people or recovery movement or whatever it might be, but going back and looking at the ways the impact happened. And then just that just as you said earlier is at some point I've just got to I've got to release it. I've just I'm I'm choosing to forgive I'm choosing to to to cut that debt that was created um with the sin or with the wrong um and I'm just I'm just giving that to God and I'm and I'm I'm freeing myself from that. Yeah that's and then I think too if if possible another way of healing is especially if if if the individual is blessed to become a father themselves is just work to create a new legacy. I'm going to give to my children maybe what I didn't receive what I what I was unable to to experience I'm I'm going to try to provide to the best of my ability try to try to provide that for them to kind of change the legacy that was created by the wound.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

That's good. I've often felt like that the generational curse that the Bible talks about the sins of the father will be visited on their children their children's children third and fourth generation I've often felt like that's not God saying I'm going to punish your great great grandchildren for what you did. It's saying because of the of the wounds that you carry and the things that you do unless this is broken this is going to go on generation after generation after generation. So what I hear you saying is I choose to stop this now.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

I'm going to break this now and my children are going to know a different father than I what I that's part of the healing process I don't think it's much more empowering than that to think that I can be the one that that that does the work to do that or that that makes that stand to change to change it. So that's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Bill I appreciate it. Appreciate it. I mean it's a it's a you you've done it well and you and you handle it very manly but it's a as you said it's a tender story for us to begin talking about our fathers and that kind of so thank you for being willing to do that. You're more than we're going to have the time to do that. Yeah it's been really good. Josh I'll kind of tell you this story that I did you probably already know. Josh and I and Jacob my two sons uh went to speak for a conference in Texas a while back and and uh Josh spoke and he's not the you know Josh not the speaker he's not the but when he does he's he's very but he spoke and uh and he spoke on the story of the rich young ruler in the gospel of mark where you know he he comes to Jesus and Jesus says you have to sell everything and and then he goes away sorrowful because he's not willing to do that. And then Peter asks an interesting question. Peter says said Lord we've given up everything to follow you what do we get out of this I mean to what this guy what are we going to get and and Peter or Jesus replies to Peter and Josh pointed out that Mark tells this story differently than anybody else Jesus says to to Peter if you in order to follow me you have to give up father mother brothers sisters home and job but if you do I'll restore it a hundredfold mother brothers sisters home and job he leaves the word father out of the second list. You have to give it up but he doesn't say he's going to restore that. And Josh said I've come to believe that that father relationship is so important that God knows he is the only one who can really fulfill that. So he has to do that. And I I've said all the time I heard Josh say that and on one hand I was so proud of him and on the other hand I thought no I want to be the wonderful I know that's great. That's so it's God I mean you said it so well Bill it's it's God that can heal it and only God's right thanks for talking to me oh you're welcome Mike thank you for having me well it's been a great conversation about about the father wind and Bill's done such a great job with it. I think uh two or three things come to my mind yeah you have to be aware of it you have to acknowledge it you have to address the particular issues that it brings up you have to talk about it understand it and you have to forgive you have to let it go. You have to at some point say as Bill said if my father had had the tools I had he probably would have done a better job and so you have to let that go. When we do when we do those things God is able to come in and change this for us and heal us from the father wound and allow us to pay that forward and to be good fathers to our children and to our children's children. If you'd like to know more about extending branches or branches itself you can go to our website branches.org. Also we would love it if you would like and share this podcast. You can watch the podcast on YouTube. You can listen to it wherever your uh favorite podcast platforms are there is a plethora of other information available we try to be informative inspirational and hopefully entertaining we do a weekly podcast Monday Matters we do a daily devotional thought just a sentence called Take a Minute Make a difference we have newsletters all kinds of information to help you live a healthier happier and more holy life Jesus said I am the vine and you are the branches our goal is to continue extending branches