The Silent Struggle of SEN Children in School

In this episode of The SY-ED Way, we’re joined by Nathan from SENDHelp for an honest and thoughtful conversation about SEN children and the reality of struggling within the school system.

For many families, the challenges begin quietly. A child who feels overwhelmed. A child who masks all day and unravels at home. A child who is labelled difficult, behind, or too much. And parents left feeling confused, exhausted, and unheard.

Nathan brings lived experience and deep insight into the realities SEN children face in traditional school environments. Together, we explore what happens when needs are missed, misunderstood, or unsupported and why the conversation around education must include children who simply do not thrive within rigid systems.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Why school can be particularly overwhelming for SEN children
 • Masking, burnout, and the emotional cost many children carry
 • The pressure placed on families to “wait it out”
 • What meaningful support should actually look like
 • Why listening to children matters more than protecting systems

This conversation is not about criticising teachers or dismissing school entirely. It is about recognising that one model does not work for every child, and that struggling does not mean a child is failing.

It is for parents who are seeing their child struggle and wondering if they are the only ones. It is for families who feel something is not right but are unsure what to do next. And it is for anyone who believes children deserve to be understood, not forced to fit.

As always, The SY-ED Way is about calm, honest conversations that centre children, parents, and trust.

If this episode resonates with you, please follow the podcast, leave a review, and share it with someone who may need to hear it.

🔗 Helpful Links & Resources

📘 Download our free home education PDF guide
 👉 https://www.thesyedway.co.uk/acalmstarttohomeeducation 

🧠 Grab the Project Based Learning guide that changed everything in our home.
 👉 https://www.thesyedway.co.uk/projectbasedlearning

📖 Learn more about SENDHelp and Nathan's work
👉 https://sendhelpapp.mn.co/

If this episode resonated with you, please follow the podcast, leave a review, and share it with someone who might find reassurance in this conversation.

Transcript

Allya & Taz: [00:00:00] Before we introduce today's conversation, we want to take a moment to explain why this episode matters. Over the past few years, we've seen more and more parents questioning the education system. Often not because they plan to, but because what's in place no longer feel safe, suitable, or supportive for their child.

For many families, especially those with Send Children, this questioning is. Accompanied by confusion, exhaustion, and the feeling of constantly having to fight to be heard. This episode isn't about blame or fear, it's about lived experience, understanding the system from the inside and the outside, and helping parents feel less alone in navigating it. 

We're Allya and Taz, and this is the Sy-Ed Way, a space for honest conversations about education, learning, and what happens when school doesn't fit. Today's conversation is about what it's like to be on both sides of the system as a professional, as a parent, and as someone [00:01:00] navigating it with neurodivergence themselves.

So today we're joined by Nathan, founder of Send Help. Nathan has worked professionally within Send Settings, including as a registered manager, and now supports families who are navigating the education system, send systems, advocacy. He's also an autistic and a DHD adult, and a father with a child with send needs, which means his perspective comes from lived experience as well as professional insight.

Nathan. We're really grateful to be here with us today, especially as this is your first podcast with us. And thank you for, again, for joining the side. So, without further ado, just wanna get into your background.

We how did you get to where you are right now and how did it all start? Really?

Nate: Well, it seems like I'm kind of curd in away that I can't escape a DH, ADHD or autism. It just seems since I've got a diagnosis, it just crept up everywhere slowly through my family and my kids and my work. It's just, it's just everywhere. And I think, I think people are realizing that in the world now, isn't it?

I think that the world is neurodiverse as much as they don't want to. But yeah. So a bit about background is so obviously [00:02:00] I've got diagnosis myself. Got a DD diagnosis when I was. 11 and followed by an autism diagnosis when I was about 13. Went on to work in the field when I was about 18, 19, was working at a highly challenging school with nonverbal autism, like proper textbook science and stuff.

And just carried on doing that. I left there after about five years and went into adult sector. So I like more support work. And then just went through there for three years, support work, senior deputy, then up to registered manager for my last like four years. So I had like a few homes, some forensic services, but mainly there always an element of autism, A DHD or something there as well. And I stepped down from that because of my son's needs. So I had to come away from that. 'Cause like being on call when that was just, I couldn't do it. And then soon realized that being a send parent, make sure at the bottom of the pile and everything I've done before, that means nothing. So Scott created sense help and started doing, speaking about it out loud and yeah, kinda got here.

Allya & Taz: So when you say, like, when you are as a same parent, you get, pushed down to the bottom of the list for people. [00:03:00] Where's, how do you kind of navigate that in, as of, as of just, 2026? Really? Hmm.

Nate: well, I, I think it is slowly starting to shift. I think I've just done a kind of a, a post about that, sort of about how the next step would be to kind of take the emotion out of it it is a very emotional. Very emotional thing, isn't it? Especially when it's your own children. And I think this is where the differential comes in straight away.

So when you are it as a register manager or whatever, you don't have that personal emotional connection. So you, you can remain very professional. You can see things like getting filtered through interpretation sort of thing. You're very relaxed going into the meeting and stuff, and that as soon as you are parent, you get the emotion.

And I think it just changes already the way you go into it. And I think that's what they're using against parents quite a lot. Doesn't mean what they're saying is not valid, but it's the way they say it, I think. And I think this is what I'm finding and I think that's why parents get pushed to the bottom of the pile because it's very easy to do write them off as just, you know, needing and needed attention or just being [00:04:00] overbearing or being like this.

So I, I find that very quickly, like when you've got the label of you're going in as a parent, it doesn't matter. They won't listen to much other than your

Allya & Taz: I mean, the label we get is, that parent in,

Nate: There's quite a lot off comments that happen and, and by I talk to families, I've kind of been able to do my own sort of research and it seems like the one where they kind of get parents is they put an awful lot of stress on them. So, so instance, so they know, every school will know an EHP probably gonna take this amount of time.

They won't tell the parent that and they'll make the parent think they're never gonna get it. So it's, it is stuff like that that puts extra, extra pressure. And if you're thinking about parents with a HD or autism themself, it just makes 'em break. And by that point I think they use that against them as to be not professional in the meetings.

To be like shouting, to be loud, to be, and I, they do use it against them. Like, they'll say stuff I, I've had it used against me. Like I, I'll only carry on talking if you remain calm, if you, it's very patronizing and, and you know, it is like they've wound you up to that point and then they're going to the meeting and then it's just like they sit there in a high horse knowing that you are just gonna kind of unravel.

Allya & Taz: I that's really speaking what you mean because for a long time we really kept quiet about a lot [00:05:00] of things, and the first time that I approached the head mistress, it was such an awful experience. She just had such a go at me, but I was in such a state at that point where she should have just said, what, let's go to my office.

We can talk about this. But she just. Kept at me and just kept saying all these inappropriate things and then ended up excluding our child from something that he shouldn't have been excluded from and all sorts. And at that moment of time, it made me feel so rubbish about myself and I was nearly in tears from it.

And I completely understand where you are coming from, where you say you feel like absolute rubbish about yourself in a way because that's how they make you feel like you are not worthy, that we are not talking sense or something like that. I mean, on that day, I remember the deputy head who was standing right next to the head mistress.

She was the total opposite. She was very compassionate, very understanding, very, wanting to sit down and, discuss it properly, appropriately. Not at, in the school gate on a Friday afternoon. On a human level. On a human level. But unfortunately, as we probably [00:06:00] get into this a little bit later on in this podcast.

There was politics at play and literally that was a Friday afternoon on a Monday. She was nowhere to be seen. Yeah, the deputy. Yeah, the deputy head. The one who was, the, the mo, the most human out of the two. She was nowhere to be seen. She had left the, the school and it was just, yeah, we just looked at each other, me and Alia, we were like, okay, something.

Yeah, something's not right. Yeah, yeah.

Nate: it could take it, it doesn't, again, it doesn't matter about your background, doesn't it? It really makes you question everything, doesn't it? And that approach, and it almost like just having that extreme approach as, as a, as I imagine it was like for you, just having that kind of shutdown down and kind of then turning on on you makes you think shit's instantly I'm overreacting, or, or was that even an issue or, you know what I

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: it takes it already like hang on a minute. This is not right to the levels. It should be,

Allya & Taz: Yeah, no, I completely agree. That's exactly how that instance made me feel. And then being called in for meetings and you're just like thinking to yourself, right, okay, now I need to just calm down a little bit because that last, [00:07:00] time was a little bit too much, but it's not because they push you to that point where you feel like that and you have to sometimes overreact.

Well, it's not actually overreacting, is it? They push you to that point and you just have to, I guess, put them in their place as well. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, the, the, the only person who's gonna advocate for a child or your child is you as the parent. Yeah. Not advocate without any question and advocate to the fullest.

No teacher, no outside person is gonna do that. They're gonna stop as soon as the tick boxes run out,

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

Allya & Taz: and that's it. So, when we advocate for the child, as I said, we become that parent.

Nate: Yeah.

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: And I think

Allya & Taz: exactly.

Nate: it? That that's kind of the, the kind of where we're at now is, is trying to not become that parent without, oh, it's impossible. It's a hard game, isn't it? 'cause it, the, the, the, the tactics at play are very, they're

Allya & Taz: It's very corporate. Yeah, it's very, very,

Nate: worse.

Allya & Taz: yeah, it's very corporate. Just run like a business.[00:08:00] 

Nate: Yeah. And

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: it, it's a, it's a shame to see. It's almost like it dehumanizes the school system as in everyone that works in there because of the system. So Roger, isn't it? So even when there is that deputy, someone's actually broke character and revealed that she's not a robot, and that that took, she got punished for it.

And that's kind of like

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: thing that happens as well. So it's, it is just, it's, it's very, it's deliberate, I think. Yeah. Up.

Allya & Taz: Yeah, he is very sinister in my view. Like, and, and deliberate as you said. Yeah. There's something definitely I think that's happening in schools that we're, that we can't see. But there is definitely something at a deeper level because there's a lot of teachers that are leaving the education system as well.

Nate: Mm-hmm.

Allya & Taz: that says a lot about the education system.

Nate: It has.

Allya & Taz: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where. We're seeing a lot of teachers now just to sort of touch on that, where they're actually saying, we would rather leave school and home, educate our own children, and, the number of home education families is going up year on year.

The stats are out there for anyone to [00:09:00] see. And the fact that teachers are saying that it's, it's quite concerning in a way, but also also in a way stoking a bit of curiosity, to see what is, what is causing teachers, and there's not, new teachers. They're, they've been there in this, in, in the line of work they've been in for years and years.

Some are very experienced, some have been there for, nearly two decades. Now they're saying what they're saying. So it just causes a lot of concern. I think there's like a lot of pressure in these environments as well. They have, it's all about targets. It's not about the kids, it's about targets.

It's about the attendance. Oh my gosh. That word attendance just really gets me. It's a trigger word because, yeah, it is because people get well, children get like penalized for it. Parents get penalized for it, and it is just the whole concept of the of attendance just makes my blood boil.

Nate: It doesn't work for anybody does it? It's just putting pressure on everybody and it's not actually working for anybody, apart from the person who needs to tick the box and say that the attendance is on 99% or something like that.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Just because they want that OTED rating.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah. And

Allya & Taz: Yeah.[00:10:00] 

Nate: but it, it go even goes higher up because it, it, you'd think that Ted would know that and look more into a school. You know, they're not silly. They know how school's gonna, they know what they're looking at at paperwork. They know it's not about paperwork. You'd think that they, I said, I've always thought, why is there not a category now when oted specifically just for send, how, how, how they deal with send issues or send kids in school, especially if all from a going mainstream, that should be one of the things that get rated on.

And as soon as that gets put in there, they will then care about complaints, about parents' views, about voices, about public pressure that they will, because that's gonna be rated down. If they get rated like really bad for send, no one's gonna wanna send a kid there.

Allya & Taz: I mean to flip that around, is that why you think they don't include send as a category? Because it just muds up what they have right now, which is a very nice and neat compliance system.

Nate: Yeah. From what? So when I was doing registered managing, I, I did touch it. I was gonna do like children's and we had to do, it is a little slightly different. Some of the homes and stuff run Ted. So it, I I, I'm, I'm kind of aware of how it runs and it is similar to CQC, but it's, again, [00:11:00] it, it is the same problem with CQC.

It is, in this day and age, it's very paperwork heavy in a sense of tick box instead of, actually, you'd think that something like that would be just getting the grips of the day, spending a day in school seeing this. But you could, there's like new polls and stuff you can get around it and like, you know, there's certain situations that if you're not doing certain stuff, they don't have to go and investigate or read this bit of paperwork.

Like, so it's, it's just stuck in that kind of game of what to reveal how to do it then it is about the actual school, if that makes sense. So like even an TED report. It can, you know, it's a mad panic before you get into like one of the reports and stuff, but you know what they're looking for and you know how to, it's not like a generic look, you know what I'm saying?

So if you've got somebody who can run a business really well, they know exactly how to run that business and make it to turn up good, which is then, as you said, where saying kids become a problem because they won't look like they're doing good in school. They won't look like the school's being run well because attendance isn't there.

Kids are not in school. you know, things are, all of the grades are dropping. So on paper and the way that it looks, it looks like they're fading as a school when necessarily all it is is they've got some [00:12:00] kids in the school.

Allya & Taz: That's, yeah. Great. That's terrible, isn't it? And like you, like we sort of, me and Alia discussed, it's gonna be a very generational thing where there's gonna be more and more send kids as the years and decades and generations go on. So if they're not catered to now, as in the requirements for a send child or children, then I kind of worry about what happens, say 15 years from now, 10, 15 years from now.

Especially when the kids, what we have now are, teenagers and they're going into, the workforce and out there into, the market job markets and things like that. And it's just, yeah, it's just concerning. Very concerning.

Nate: There's gonna be a lot of deficits in a lot of places. 'cause as again, as you mentioned before about teachers leaving, that's notoriously unheard of because as you said, they do stay for years. You have the same teacher sometimes in my primary school, they're still the same teachers there when I was there.

You know, they

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: That's kind of the thing that the teachers are about. They don't really jump from job to job. You know, you look kind of suspicious if you're doing that as a teacher. So for them to be able to

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: what's that gonna? So the [00:13:00] ones that would understands that have their own children are ones that are leaving.

So then there's no one still inside that school that understands. So they've having to leave just because their kids got sent. No other reason. And you know, or sometimes it, you know, it, it's, I suppose it the other way, when they've tried really hard and know they can't support Zen in school, so they've had to leave so they can support s you knowdo of a child and that creates an economical problem going forward because you've got kid teachers not gonna be in school that's gonna do it.

And also the kids that have, the kids that have been pulled out are not gonna wanna go to school or send their kids to school. So school then becomes something that's optional, which then creates even more of a void. That means where do teachers go then? Where does all just, it just, it ripples effects, isn't it?

Everything.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. It's this, it's, it's like a core part of the system, and if that core part is rotten and breaking, there's, how does it have a knock on effect on the rest of, like you said, the, the wider economy and the wider society as a whole. So, we're, five years ago people like us would be labeled as conspiracy theorists or something like that.

And everything that's [00:14:00] happening now in front of everyone's eyes, it is just, it's obvious now. It's not, we were right there, isn't it now? Yeah. It can't, you can't avoid it now.

Nate: Yeah, it is out

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: It's just, and again, even that about is the one that just come out now with that, the island. My God, if that's happening, I have, we are seeing stuff in school. God, it just makes me think Jesus of Christ. Like

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: that's like top, top, top over like every government thing and we are just talking about education system, God knows what we are, what is actually running that and how sinister it actually is, because I

Allya & Taz: yeah,

Nate: beneficial for people and private companies and stuff like that.

All of that, it will still links to the education system, doesn't it?

Allya & Taz: yeah. It,

Nate: that's

Allya & Taz: it's not, it's where the north point, I mean, someone said to me once, the system's broken. And I said to them, it's not broken. It is built exactly how the North point, not 1%. When it to be, it works for them.

Nate: Yeah.

Allya & Taz: the system is built for them. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: That's perfect. Yeah.

Allya & Taz: so in terms of like, you've been, obviously you are your parent and you've been on the other side [00:15:00] of, helping children with send needs in an official capacity.

What kind of difficulties have you faced with your son's kind of school and, how has it impacted him and you as a parent and as someone who's got that professional experience as well, having worked with Essential and how, if you wouldn't mind elaborating a little bit on that, please.

Nate: Yeah. So I, I, I, the only way to say it is it changed the direction of the last to four months rapidly. Even the way my channels are run now, even the, like, everything has been led by what happened to my child at school. And it wasn't so much what happened because it, it was how it was handled that was awful. And it was just like, just to touch on, it was, it's all kind of tied together. It's hard to kind of pin it to like one issue. So. The major thing was racism and it was just that, it was the push over the edge. The one that's like, you can't just, you can't, I can't go any further with this. This is not safe.

You know, if racism's going and happening, and it, so what happened was, there's a report that came from someone from his year, some, some kid in his class was crying to, [00:16:00] to our mum saying basically that my son keeps getting abused, recently abused in school and she can't, it, it is making her upset. So then that brings on the meeting, that brings on like a, you know, you're going, oh, what's going on?

And I was thinking, oh Jesus, that's a bit like what's going on here. So normally at this point I don't really, I wasn't really involved in so much and that's my thought as well. And I, I, you know, I should and I think ev every man, if they are able to, should be going into the meetings as well. Just to stop that kind of thing.

So I got involved, obviously gets racist mostly 'cause I'm mixed racist, so it's like there's no real point of anyone being here but me for this. It soon found out that this wasn't the first incident, this was just the first reported incident. And that matters because what I actually found out was my child had actually been arrested. For quite a while by not just one person, but it seemed to be just opening cars that they could just say that. And it was only him that was getting targeted with that. So it wasn't like a generic thing that they just say stuff to be. It's like there was comments being said like black chimpanzee and then it was written down as wasn't racist, wasn't, wasn't meant as racist, wasn't deemed as this.

And it, [00:17:00] I had, I just found all these reports, like when I was going through it and I was like, why is this not being documented? And I was like, oh, it has been done to documented. Like it's not like, obviously now don't use my register manager. Like you have to alert the local authorities. You haven't put this through the channels.

The only one it has is the one that's come from outside of school because it's come from outside of school, you know,

Allya & Taz: So who, who was documenting these? Like, just take a step back. Who was

Nate: they were just putting 'em on normal incident sheets, so like a normal report that would happen. So like a kid just, you know, had an argument of pay time, that's what it would be done as. So that racist

Allya & Taz: done by different teachers?

Nate: Yeah. Yeah. Just like,

Allya & Taz: Oh.

Nate: many of his teacher, was just, See, I didn't even think about that. That's like the ethos of all of them, not just one of them. Isn't it like, because it was different. Different people writing it down and it was like easier. Again, I don't think it's personal to the people that put it down.

I'm not saying they're racist, but it's easier to dismiss that than to open a

Allya & Taz: Hmm.

Nate: is to do it, and I think that's the issue in school with racism or with SE, it's easier to dismiss it and say it's not, that's not the issue than to open up the can of worms than if that is the issue, what has to happen.

Allya & Taz: Even with safeguarding, it's the same thing where they brush [00:18:00] it under the carpet, even if it's a really, really serious safeguarding issue that's happened, they brush it under the carpet.

Nate: Mm-hmm.

Allya & Taz: teachers are not saying yet, this is what happened, and this shouldn't have happened. They're just quiet. I mean, not to go into details about some of the things we've been told by other parents.

I mean, there's been a safeguarding issue that we came across from another parent who contacted us through our TikTok, and that safeguarding issue was of a serious sexual nature and the way the school dealt with it. The parent was in total shock. And I'm guessing for you to read the report about your son being racially abused and it being trivialized and swept on the carpet and, the, the report being written by not just one teacher in particular, but by a few other teachers, and like you said, that they're not writing because, they themselves are racist or anything, but like you said, it's just easier on the job.

What can I do that doesn't make me stay beyond sort of four or five o'clock in the afternoon?

Nate: Yeah.

Allya & Taz: and dealing with an, with an angry parent also, also, you think about if the parent comes in to pick up the child that you'd mention it at [00:19:00] that point, but they didn't even mention it with you guys.

Nate: So I knew naively, so he, he, there was some things that he mentioned and it was like, because there was nothing brought off school, I thought it was just like kind of, you know, it is about a time they're starting to discover that they're different colors and you know, they're can start saying, you know, it was very loose.

But like, I think again, this ties into his S profile, why the whole handle of it was wrong. 'cause on his S profile it said that he's a liar and literally as a black and white said, just basically he makes up stuff, right? So it makes me wonder of all these reports throughout the time of how many of them are not documented because they thought he just lied about the incident and then if they're not thinking he's lying, they're thinking he's exaggerating.

So there's so many filters to before they even thought, yeah, he might be telling the truth. Ultimately,

I feel like racism should be one of them things that it doesn't matter. It, it should be taken under the person who, who discloses it. So you wouldn't question someone that comes with, with like, you know, as you said, like a sexual case.

You wouldn't question that to a certain degree. Oh, did you, did you really? I know, I don't think so. It, I don't think they meant that like that, you know, even if you think like that you, you give the person the [00:20:00] seriousness of, okay, this is bad that happened to, you didn't get any of that. You know, it's just, oh, that's not even a, a concern.

Don't worry about it. They didn't really mean it. It could be mean as racism, but they didn't mean it like that. And it's almost like, what, what does that tell a kid that's confusing?

Allya & Taz: How does your son feel about that? I mean, what, what went through his head during the time he's getting all this racial abuse and how, how is he right now?

Nate: Well underplayed because again, because they underplayed it, he didn't think it that seriously, and still to this day doesn't think, I don't think he understands what he actually went through and the difference. I think only time will tell when he doesn't get it again. You know, I think that what 'cause it was going on for it could be like, the first comment was like two years back.

It, it's been filtered through and just getting worse through that time of the off shots of the comments. And I said there was like, it's not just one kid, it was like seven kids I think in total. And some of them are his friends. It just become open to say that sort of stuff in school where it wasn't addressed.

So it just shows what happens when you don't take it seriously. And I think even that kind of helps him in a way, I suppose, because he's not traumatized by what he went through. He knows it's bad, but more because of my [00:21:00] reaction to how bad it was, not so much it was, 'cause I said he was going reporting it for years and he wasn't gonna take it seriously.

It was only the, the last bit. And he was like, oh, now kind of daddy's not happy about it. I'd actually do it as, again, through his identity, I'm mixed. He's even a mixture. Like, do you know what I mean? He's, he's not, why is he claiming an identity? Is it beyond me? I don't even understand. I feel like he could take a backseat with very similar cars when we got, they're not talking about me.

You know? Do you know what I mean? That, that, that, that's

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: aim at me. Let alone be the one that's been aimed at it. So like it, that's crazy. 'cause even the way you teach out of that is like, oh, you know the identity and this is what the school tried to do to get him to teach it in fight for school.

And that, and like you're like, he doesn't have an identity like that. He doesn't identify like that because why should he? Because again, he's one of his parents is mixed Irish. Like he hasn't it, it's very mixed heritage. Like, so even to identify as just like a very African lead or Caribbean, it's stupid because it's not, you know, that's not, and you're already trying to identify him saying you are just solely this, it's a problem because he doesn't got he shouldn't have to know.

You know, he's like, God's like, [00:22:00] it's just so many things about that that are wrong. Do you know what I mean? And like, it's the cultural identifi education. When he doesn't have to do that now he's forced to try and think that. So now he's thinking about stuff like immigration, is that end me was an immigrant.

You know, like when they're asking questions like that, you're like, what the hell? Like. It's crazy 'cause I, again, I think we touched on this before you, I didn't get outta school or if I

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: was very good at protecting me from knowing that that was it. If I reported it, that's serious. You know

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: get in trouble for that no matter what happened afterwards.

And I think that you are kind of the same to see kids going through

Allya & Taz: Yeah, I mean, you know, like I said, I'm 43 and you know, I went to school here, secondary school, primary school, university, college, nothing like, I've never had like a racial encounter di directly towards me anyway. But in the last one, isn't it one, yeah. Which was on the road when you were walking with your mom.

But yeah, that was it. I was nine years old and, you know, a guy who drove past in a van. This was been straight on High Road in South London. I was walking with my mom, I was nine years old, and he looked out the window and I still remember this very clearly. Like, I was like, it was yesterday. And he said the P word to me [00:23:00] and I had no idea what that was or what, what that meant.

And I looked up my mom and I can tell, I remember her face. She was very distressed, you know, you know, a lone Asian woman walking down the high street with a little kid. And that was the only time I, that only time I remember it. But you know, in, in the last sort of three years, especially last two to three years, it feels like whole kind of racial element has just become very, very normalized.

You know, and it's evident in what you've, you know, unfortunately what you and your son have to experience, where it's just been, it's not our profile. Yeah. We have so much like racism towards us because obviously I wear the hijab, so we have so much racism towards us, and it is just, I don't understand how this has become normal.

Obviously there's things at play, which is the government, the media, and all these things, but again, there's something so sinister going, behi going on behind the scenes with a lot of things. Not just schools, but the whole system as a whole. But if they don't nip it in the bud at school, then these kids who are causing your son [00:24:00] distress, for example, they're gonna grow up thinking it's okay to be, yeah.

To say whatever to people who don't look like them.

Nate: Yeah.

Allya & Taz: And I think schools generalizing. It is just, yeah. It, it's like you said, it's, it is gonna be a generational problem going forward.

Nate: Yeah, it is. And on the flip side of that, you get, again, there is more cruising around it and people just, it is hard, isn't it? Because in isolated areas like mine, I think it's gonna be rife. And it could be we are like, kind of 10 years back because we haven't got the numbers to change the issue.

So that, so as in a sense of, there's always only gonna be one or two black kids in the school. There's only gonna be that one Muslim kid. There's only gonna be, you know, so it kind of does stand out. But it's, it's mad that like the kids are better at it than us. The kids lead better. I mean, again, influence on social media and stuff, yes.

But natural day to day, the kids are better than us. Like people are very open about it. As you said. Now they're supporting who they're supporting. They're calling out, they're making their stance known to their friends, their

Allya & Taz: Yes.

Nate: their, it's just very out there now. And it's just, it's crazy. Like these private [00:25:00] thoughts and private opinions or something that was often wanna say has now become normal. To just become and identify and something that gets people also engaging and saying, yeah, me too.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. It's, yeah, it's just going all over the place, isn't it? This whole thing. Yeah. So what felt most challenging or surprising about your, that experience with school?

Nate: I think, again, racism, again, I kind of expected that sort of thing to deal with it, but descent issues is what really got me was that, that my kid has, has diagnosed with A DHD and I'm seeing reports of him being told to come back after, in lunchtime to practice sitting still. And not just that, like the way it's written in, in that kind of language, in the sense of like, yeah, well he's not paying attention.

He can't sit still in class. He can come back and learn and you're like, hang on a minute. It kind of had made me kind of question the whole process of what they understood about A DHD. And I know I was aware from that because I was doing social media before, but it's almost like I just thought those really bad schools, not every school that's hard to believe. Like, you know,

know, Mo these schools have got really, really bad, but most schools would have [00:26:00] to, you know, they wouldn't do that, but you know. Among them, taking that and putting that onto social media and saying what's happened, and then the reporting system about that and getting nowhere.

It's just kicked up this whole, again, this whole movement the last few months about how schools are not accountable. They're targeting, saying they're using it. Send symptoms as punishment and ways to punish the children. And it's just like, I can't under, I can't believe it. Like when you really take yourself out of it, like even the detentions getting a kid that can't sit still and struggles to, you know, be in an environment just to contain that, to punish them deliberately because they can't contain that in an environment in the first place is it's no form of torture, isn't it?

Like

Allya & Taz: Is, I remember when I was in secondary school and I used to, I think it was like a sense of sort of like feeling safety by rocking back and forth on my chair. And I used to rock back and forth on my chair. And then I used to be given a thousand lines to write, even though my father was in hospital for three months and I was going straight to the hospital from school, eating my dinner there.

I had to write them thousand lines there [00:27:00] as well.

did you have to write? I won't rock back and forth on my chair.

Nate: and you think times have changed, right?

Allya & Taz: Yeah, yeah.

Nate: and they haven't, like if anything, they've got my more secretive but more worse of it. Like, so we know less that that's happened. Everyone would talk to you how schools used to be back, back in the day. And the question is now do I, do we really know how to run now?

I don't, I can't honestly answer that question. Do kids still have to do stuff like that? Probably. know,

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: it is awful,

Allya & Taz: Was your son the only child who would be called back for that? that punishment detention, or would there be other kids in that class for the same reason? 

Nate: Think so. I, I, I thought at first, yes, but then I, when I looked at each class and then to other parents and their kids going through similar, they're very good at making your kids and you feel like you're only one going through it, but actually they're doing it to three, four other people. So I just think, no, I think it quite often they'll be using that as a way of punishing kids. And because it's, it's if they wouldn't make exceptions, so I don't think targeted my son to be like, he's the only one that couldn't do it. The rest [00:28:00] of 'em have a DC could. I think it's just we don't tolerate it.

Even if you've got a DH, ADHD doesn't matter. So anyone that shows lack of, you know, losing a pen or lack of sitting still yeah. Will, will get

Allya & Taz: Okay. Just wanted to ask you something. How did you get the reports from the school? Like where, where did you get them from?

Nate: So yes, I got informed a sars, which is like a subject actress request, which you can get from any school. 

Allya & Taz: Okay.

Nate: done that though, I've realized that I was very, very lucky in a sense of I got exactly what I asked for, that I thought naively, because it's by the book, isn't it? They give you all the legal documents.

I mean, I'm, I'm not being naive. I think they probably was stuff that they hid, but the ones I got were bad enough even to make me know how bad the issue was. since I've, I, I put a video up telling people to do that. There's a couple things I've just gained before people do that, be ready to listen to your worst fears.

So if you might come across email threads between the teachers and of them saying that you are that parent, that you are just overbearing, that it's not really an issue. And that's been something that I've. [00:29:00] Heard and seen and had people on podcasts disclosing and saying, and that's awful. 'cause that kind of, that's, that's a kick to the gut, isn't it, really? And secondly is they might not give you the information you're looking for. They might just actually refuse, just not give you the information. So doc, doctor it put too much. They, they're meant to give you stuff that you're allowed to share. So your kids' needs meant to be put. They might just like not redact anything, you know, and they're giving you bare minimum and they, they're still tactics there.

So as much as I thought I would've said before, this is, everyone get it? And that's clear cut. I would say still do it. But there is risks

Allya & Taz: So can they actually withhold information if you request that?

Nate: legally, no. But if you dunno what to ask for and you dunno what there is meant to be there, you, you dunno. You, know. So if you don't know, oh, there should be this or what's missing. But sometimes as I would say, sometimes the lack of information also can go against them. So if they've not, like, not given you all of this, that's su suspect, isn't it?

And you can kind of, you're meant to be able to go higher up with that and even say they've not disclosed that, but. Doesn't really

Allya & Taz: So what [00:30:00] advice would you give listeners? So if they are looking to do an SAR, how. What's the specific, specific requirement should they use or specific language? Like for example, do we say I need to know everything that happened between this date and that day, or how would they go about it to get the maximum of full information?

Nate: I, I would say just ask for everything. So just ask for a size on everything that your child is, is, is connected to. So it's anything, paperwork, any outside third party, any incident, any positive behavior support they've done. anything connected to, to get any information like that. So any email threads between the teachers and stuff like that.

Any conversation between mom and you and how they've been documented. That all comes up there. There's a way that you can, you can just ask for a size loosely, but you can't, there is a way you could put it so they do requirement and know that you what you're talking about. So they're a bit more willing to give you the SAR and not play you like, kind of go back and forth for the next two months about why they're not gonna give it. But it's a legal requirement. You can ask, you can ask for that and anyone can ask for that at any time and they have to give that to you.

Allya & Taz: So even as a parent that's home [00:31:00] educating our son, if we wanted to go back to the school that he was in, we could ask for that.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Allya & Taz: Okay. I'm not sure if I'd even want to know what they've been saying about me or my husband, sort of behind our backs. I'd like to find out. Yeah.

Nate: what,

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: is, I'd imagine is say the time's distance and they haven't got the records anymore. 'cause it wasn't necessary to keep hold of them. So they won't have any information.

Allya & Taz: Hmm. Yeah.

Nate: I just, I

Allya & Taz: So, but that's not actually, that's not gonna be true though, is it?

Nate: No.

Allya & Taz: Because I think they have to hold onto records for a certain amount of time. Right.

Nate: certain records they'll have to hold onto Yeah. For a certain of time. Yeah.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Okay. So in terms of strengths, what strengths do you think neurodivergent parents bring to advocating for their children? Like, how would you've, obviously you're a neurodivergent parent.

Ali has a neurodivergent parent, What advice would you give other neuro diversion parents when it comes to advocating for the kids?

Nate: Don't. Well Wayne, you're not giving up anyway, but don't give up. Don't let, don't we are, as I said, we are the [00:32:00] best people for it. It's just, maybe, as I said back, we are not the best people in a professional setting for it by the time we get there. And tying back to the size again about the rest of why, to get to sar 'cause it's important.

'cause then when you're fighting their words against them, it's different. It takes you out the equation. So with that shift, and that I think would be perfect for it because we know, and again, when you've got the condition yourself, you know more understanding than most people out there in the world at the moment.

And you can relate that to your family and you can relate that to the way that you live and your lifestyle. And so you've got more insight than anyone else. So you should be the lead professional in any kind of meeting around your child. It's unfortunate that we're not, but ever let them get, take that from you and make that doubt that that's what they want the doubt of, that you are maybe wrong and they can influence your decisions, but no. So I think we are the perfect people to do it. I think that it does cause get passionate. I think if we didn't have the condition ourself, we wouldn't be as understanding and as unwilling to drop it. You know, it's hard to relate if you don't have the if condition or, or the effect of it, isn't it?

So you could say, oh, you know, they might need, [00:33:00] if they're blind or something, you could talk about adaptations, but you're not living that life. You know, you can't push, you don't, you know, it's not your passion, your heart because you, you know your body. You need this and you know what works. You know, so it's, it's, it's a great skill to have.

Allya & Taz: Yeah, a hundred percent. I know that you had a diagnosis quite young, didn't you?

Nate: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Allya & Taz: With your diagnosis be, you had it quite young. There's a lot of parents, I think in this day and age that don't have a diagnosis because they just don't know if they've got a DHD, autism, dyslexia, and all the other stuff.

How would you feel that they should, what am I trying to say here? Like, what I'm, should they get diagnosed and if they do get diagnosed, how should they react themselves?

Nate: Oh, absolutely. Because it's all their fault. There's, there's just, it's like,

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: goes through families and I think this is where they missed it. It missed it and missed if they realize this early on, they had prevented tactics from even getting into the poor position they are now, because I think they missed a, gonna go through generational and it's near enough 90% pass rate or [00:34:00] something like that.

Like, so you're gonna have it in a family. And when it comes to parents, I hear this a lot and I hate it, but I understand. They say stuff like, yeah, but I haven't got the time. Or Yeah, but I'm fighting for my child. Or, yeah, but I, it doesn't matter about me. They, you know, they come first. Yes, that's true. But if you, if you go down, no one's gonna help them up apart from you.

So if you think for a second you might have these things go and get assessed because you're gonna be stuck in a waiting list. By the time you then take the year or two to think, oh, maybe it'll help or whatever, you are gonna be stuck in another waiting list. Things are changed by then. It might be harder to get through.

So I'd advise everyone to get it and don't, because. Why would you wanna understand the situation they're in ultimately? 'cause you've got, you know, you can go to your, your child and say, you know, I understand, I've got it. You know, and that's more powerful than anything else you're gonna be taught. You know? And ultimately,

Allya & Taz: think the understanding is everything, isn't it

Nate: Yeah.

Allya & Taz: Just you understanding and saying, you know what? I understand exactly why you do this and why you are a certain way, because I've also [00:35:00] been there and I think that's the best. Version of advocacy and to reassure them that, what, it's okay. It's absolutely fine.

If you wanna shake on your chair, shake on your chair. Go do what? Do what you gotta do here. Here's a wobble cushion. Go for it. Yeah,

Nate: more powerful, powerful people than parents. If you're, if you're, if you're looking it up and you're like, well, I made it, you know, and they're looking at you as role models already, they're like, oh, it's not that bad. And that's powerful. You know,

Allya & Taz: yeah,

Nate: just instantly, like they can meet other professionals and stuff, but like, you know, you are living it every day.

Like, yeah, I've got three. I do it. And it's like that, that relies like it will be okay. That's, that's amazing,

Allya & Taz: yeah, yeah. They, they look at us and they realize that, you know, they've made something off themselves so we can too. And you become essentially their role model.

Nate: Yeah, that's it.

Allya & Taz: That's really powerful. It is. It is. Yeah. So what do you wish professionals understood better about neurodivergent families?

Nate: Oh

Allya & Taz: Everything's

Nate: [00:36:00] yeah. I

Allya & Taz: list, isn't.

Nate: where, where, where'd you start with that one? I

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: but then is it, is it a lack of understanding or do they understand too well?

Allya & Taz: Mm.

Nate: is it that a misunderstanding parents on

Allya & Taz: Mm-hmm.

Nate: it seems to be very unanimously the same issues throughout the board, depending, even though this kid and situation would be completely different. So I, I wish that they. Become human ultimately, realize that, that realize that these parents are human and they're not just, why would they want to spend their life doing this? That's the question that they forget to ask because it's exhausting for them too. As much as you are already reading and having to deal with all the issues.

They're sitting at home all day having to do that. They're not, that means what happens to their job? What happens to anything council or other kids? You know? So even if you just think that first and know that, you know, they're going in from a parent, I think that will change a lot of outcomes in, in meetings. know, if you just know. Okay, I know. Even, but even if you don't agree, it's just, I understand you are stressed. I

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: that you, you know, you, you've been fighting and how far you would've gone to get

Allya & Taz: exactly. [00:37:00] Exactly. Yeah, that's, I think that's what parents like us just wish for, isn't it? That they just understand just at a very human level. That's it. I mean, just to give an example, a very simple thing, our son just before we pulled him outta school, he was told that with, this is going back in October of last year, October, November, December.

For those three months, the his year group decided that they're gonna take the kids swimming. To this local swimming pool. Now I know my son, he gets really overwhelmed really quickly with all the noise, the echoing, the, the echoing that you get in swimming pools. All of that is a massive, massive feeling, isn't it?

Yeah. It's a massive overload for him. And it's the coldest time of the year, the wet time of the year. And we know that he's, by the time he gets in the pool, comes out, walks home. So he walks back to school, then comes home within a couple of days, he's gonna get a cold or a flu or something. And he is also probably gonna have like a massive meltdown.

Yeah. So when I emailed the schools to say to them, look, can we just not send him for the swimming thing? Right. Because I'd prefer it, [00:38:00] this is the reasons why. Yeah. Because obviously pick him up early, you'll pick him up early. Or we can leave him in school because I'm sure other kids are probably not gonna be going, what?

 what can we, can we come to an arrangement just for that one Tuesday afternoon and I get an email back from the send person themselves saying, we are gonna treat it as an unauthorized absence if you pick him up. Half what? Half at the half day point. So I turned around and I got so vexed, I turned around and said, what?

I'm gonna keep him off for the whole day. Send whatever letters you want. Yeah. And they're trying to say to me how he kept him off that Yeah. That Tuesday they're trying to tell us we would not be bullied into an unauthorized absence. Yeah. Because the first day Alia went with our son and he was even with his own mother, that his safe space, his safe person, he was on a verge of a meltdown.

Yeah. So, do what I mean? He asked the teacher several times if he can come out the water, because what happens with our son, because he's very slim, he gets really shivering quickly. So he asked the teacher so many times if he could come out the water and the teacher actually just said, no.[00:39:00] 

Point blank. No. I mean, even me as a parent, if my child asked me to come out the pool because for whatever reason, I'd say Yes, of course.

Nate: I

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: you say no? Like do what I mean, like Yeah, of course. Like

Allya & Taz: So.

Nate: what? you water talk them or something. What's going on? Like, why do they have to stay in the pool?

Allya & Taz: Exactly, exactly. When I asked my son, how many times did you ask? He said at least four or five times.

Nate: it's just containment again, it's, it, it even that, I just read that as the school. You ring it up saying, I'm gonna set my kid out to school 'cause you don't do swimming. They're like, no, you can't do that. You dunno how to

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: you do, it's your fault and you are gonna have to take the blame for it. And then even after that, even asking him, him to get out, it's not convenient. No, we can't go out. 'cause then we haven't got enough teachers to look at him. What happens if something happens? So we can't safeguard that. You have to stay in the pool with everyone else.

Allya & Taz: It's ridiculous, isn't it?

Nate: him at all. Is it

Allya & Taz: It's exactly what you said earlier, for them to be more human. And you know, for me you know, we was in the back office. I'm angry typing, you know, where the whole world can hear my keyboard going mental. And I just said, that's it. I'm pulling him outta school. That, that [00:40:00] was for me, like with, that was his final, I think straw, which is good because I was already looking at pulling him out of score, but I needed him to kind of like have that within that 20th front.

It'll take a bit of while to get warmed up. Yeah. I'm a, slow, slow moving kind of object, but when I get going I was so vexed. I just said, that's it. We're pulling him out. I don't care. We had no provisions in place as such, when anything, I thought between the two of us, we'll we'll make it work, but I'm not having some send person tell me that the Department of Education has set this as a curriculum when you can't even cover the basics of his curriculum, which is reading and writing and literacy, which he could not do other than what, what you did with Zerman.

Yeah, when they said it's part of the curriculum. Honestly I just had a bit of a giggle. 'cause you think to yourself, it's funny. But it's not funny, but I'd rather laugh about it because it just makes me feel better. Yeah. So I, we just, that's it. That was it for us. We pulled 'em out and yeah, like you said, they need to be more human,

Nate: yeah,

Allya & Taz: I totally agree with that. That's, that's, that's definitely they ever going to be, I, I'm not sure. No. They're gonna get replaced with robots or something going to get [00:41:00] worse. That's small

Nate: still

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: the people they need for the job, don't they?

Allya & Taz: yeah, yeah. Exactly. So, yeah. Okay. Let's go on to send help. So we know that you've set up something called Send Help.

What is it and what do you do there for people?

Nate: so it's been many things because that's, it's been kind of adapted to where it is, but I think we've got the final version of it now. Ba it, what it is is, it started off is when I, I say I went firewall I 400 videos done. It was more comedy, my, my own personal channel, but then come, come with the request, the p parents saying the same thing over and over again, and I thought, there's no place to find this information, even for me to try and find.

It crazy. So I thought let's try and put it all in one place. So that's where Sent help kind of came into. It's like, just a place where, I mean, it's kind of like in a name like Send Help. So I want it to be that anything to relate to sends you'll be able to get through, send Help. So within it, I've created like a 9 99 app that has trusted voices in it that I've got and me inside of it has workshops, training, but also a community that [00:42:00] everyone can chat to that everyone, you know. from Facebook that, you know, you can chat quite freely and no one's gonna criticize. Everyone's gonna kind of agree and stuff like that. And it's just, it's just, yeah, really been amazing from that. So I, I, I want, I want it to be going forward and this year what we're trying to do is get like, as enough people in different fields, like occupational therapists and stuff like that, so there's no waiting this we'll be able to signposts at least advice instantly.

Like, I'm not saying I could do the long shot, the long shot be the diagnosis and the, and the support and the coming out to the home. But for now, just that question, the question you've been sitting burning know, fact, our parents wait for three months for an appointment sometimes then it gets canceled and you know, just that, that overhang of waiting and the questions, a lot of it can just be answered through the app or with a person or I do free advice tools as well, so you don't even have to do the app.

So send help is just for free advice really. But the app just helps ongoing support and if you need to training in the community just there if you need it.

Allya & Taz: Okay. I really love that. How members have you got part of that community at the moment?

Nate: I just under a hundred at the moment. So I think we've got like 95 or something at the moment. [00:43:00] I've only just released it properly for the last month and a half and I've got a problem with myself with control of it because, 'cause it's a community, I'm struggling and I can't get my head round, just open it up just saying, yeah, come join this.

Because then I think, what if you have too many people? What if I miss these people and I'm panicking? But I think that's restricted at the moment. I think I need to start opening it up.

Allya & Taz: But you know what? That's really good on you because you obviously want to give the parents that support and you don't want anyone to be missed. So that shows that you actually really care.

Nate: That's, but yeah. It's, it, it, yeah. I've had trials of it before and we've done like a free app and, and it just, that's what happens very quickly. People get lost. People try and ask for support. You can't cover 'em all. And it just becomes like a dumb, it is not nice. So we kind

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: lesson in the first start, the last first six months.

So, it, it's important because that's what's keeps it going. And I think I underestimate the community. And I think with my autism, I still don't really understand it, but it's, it's the number one like point of it. Everyone loves it. And you have people that go on and log in every day that don't even speak and you know, they're like every day.

And if you took it away, they'll be like, [00:44:00] didn't know where to go. And it's like, that is really important to have that kind of community feel and not just thinking that people are coming in there just dumping their problems, getting support and ducking back out again. You know

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: there to help and support other people back.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. I mean, I think with Send Help, it's really amazing what you're doing there because in our own kind of journey on this whole home education and understanding how to do things, what to do, the whole, we found the information is so disjointed out there. Even the, the people in local authority, they don't have the right information and when they come back to you, they come back with incorrect information.

Like when we deregistered our son for example, they turned around and said, oh yeah, we need to approve. It. Turns out they don't need to approve anything. At least not for now anyway. So it is simple things like that. So it's really good what you're doing to send help where you're bringing in all the information that a parent needs under one roof.

And I think that's what's lacking at the moment out there in this, kind of send home education kind of space is, yeah, because there's too much noise, there's too [00:45:00] much going on online. And to just make that one place where parents can come is fantastic.

Nate: I forgot about the homeschooling bit element of it as well. So that's something we're gonna do this year as well. Another thing that I've picked up about the pe, the amount of kids that are homeschooled. And so I have been speaking to lots of teachers that have had to leave the field unfortunately, but fortunately for me that they're available to be able to like, sort of, we're gonna create maybe like kids workshops kids meet and

Allya & Taz: Fantastic.

Nate: all stuff involving kids just mainly aimed at the kids that are sitting at home all day that are not being able to access school or, and, and just getting, and just kind of sitting at home, wasting away.

Not so much about the math, the English and science, all of that stuff, you know, just giving 'em back a community and a place where people all have got the same plate thing. Can you imagine that? I, I would love that as a

Allya & Taz: That's, that's amazing, honestly. Yeah. That is, is that like, is that because they're waiting for alternative provision or is that because they're actually being home educated?

Nate: A combination of both. Some people are

Allya & Taz: Okay.

Nate: eh, HCPs where they've struggled to go in school so much so the kid cannot actually get into school. Now the time they've got the meetings in train or they've been put on [00:46:00] part-time schooling, that's really increased the anxiety around school. So they're just in there.

There's a lot of people just in the middle of that really like,

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: able to like, you know, 50 50. So their attendance is like 50%. So some days they're getting, in, some days they're not. So it's,

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of kids that actually find it really difficult to go in, not because they're unwell, but because of the anxiety and the fears and

Nate: hmm.

Allya & Taz: ev everything that's happening in school, I guess, but which we don't understand and which we don't know about.

Nate: The whole diagnosis of it. I can't believe they're getting diagnosed with a diagnosis that literally says that school is a bad place. It's giving 'em trauma and no one's still looking at the schools and it's just like, yeah, EBSA, that's fine. Yeah. Well, no, it's not like, you know, you get PT for a reason.

You don't just get, you didn't just not get shot in the war. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, do you know what I mean? It's, something

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: like to cause that you're not looking into the environment that's causing that. You're just giving them the label of, oh, that environment must be wrong. They're getting SA, they must be at home.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Well, when it weighs, when they weigh up, it's easier to blame the parent or the kid, or the individual or the family, yes. Rather [00:47:00] than the whole school establishment. Because what if that, what basically, if this becomes public knowledge where one school gets fully investigated and ripped apart in terms of.

 their inadequacies and their failures. Do you think that's not gonna spread throughout the country, through all schools? And that's gonna cause a massive problem.

Nate: It's

Allya & Taz: it's easier.

Nate: force, isn't it?

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: dilemma,

Allya & Taz: you go.

Nate: it? That you

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: the guy a scapegoat. 'cause if you admit is a, is a, is a police thing, and then everyone's questioning of the police force goes, and then you have no trust in the police,

Allya & Taz: exactly.

Nate: awful. If you, if the, if I, if the economy went to that or

Allya & Taz: Yes. Forget normal financial recession. I think we're in a massive trust recession for the past 10 years.

Nate: yeah. Yeah.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Massive trust recession way. I see it. You're right. Yeah. Hundred percent. So in terms of sort of, what are parents most worried about when they first make contact? When they first come through to you on the app?

What's their kind of immediate and their first concern?

Nate: HCPs HCPs all the time, whether it be getting one, being stuck on getting one [00:48:00] refused being at tribunal or just inquiring because the school said they can't get one, and how do they do it on their own? around that piece of that document is absolute hell at the moment in a sense of they're stopping it. Everyone's panicking. delaying it for the last meeting and they're literally blanketing it Lee saying no. So then that as well, I think I meant what it does to a, a family. And a lot of my calls are, you know, very rightly so, does cp. These are not people cluing at straws. These are people that have got nonverbal kids that are night yet that are seven that still need to help toileting that can't speak.

And you are saying, I'm refusing just because of time and EHCP because of funding. When if you looked at that and it's anyone in the country is going to approve that EHCP. And but what that gives is the parents doubt then they're scared that they've got it wrong. Maybe it's not that bad. Maybe it is their parenting, maybe their kid's gonna be fine in that kind of environment.

And you know, to think that your kid's gonna be fine non-verbal when they dunno, Macan in a mainstream school is insane because they're not fine. They're actually so vulnerable at all times. Even in a [00:49:00] specialist setting, they're still gonna be vulnerable. Not speaking is, is huge. Not being able to communicate your needs, especially with teenagers, if you're going out to that point and all of that sort of stuff, and especially if you can't toilet, that's a whole other ball game.

Allya & Taz: Oh, when are they gonna be taking the ehcp away? I've heard that they're gonna be taking them away completely.

Nate: Yeah. Soon as I think,

Allya & Taz: Wow.

Nate: they're proactively trying to slow the system down and have done for a while. So it's gonna be soon. I, it's just, they're not gonna be able to do it as, as simple as saying, oh, we're not doing the HCPs now. It would all be a lot of things moving at the same time and before you know it, there's no HCPs. what I imagine is going to happen is there, there's this tier thing that's been floating about, and I think they've got leak documents about this tier system. And I think what what that is gonna be is they're gonna per. Most of the kids in under the first three tiers, which would be ones that are mainstream capable which won't come within the HCP. And that would be what they're saying with the positive thing about all this funding going into the mainstream schools, the send units and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What they don't say [00:50:00] is that doesn't come with the legal funding of the hcp. What they'll do is they'll keep a category open for that, but that'll be deemed for the only, the most severe, and they're the means that we're meant to be going to just specialist schools.

Which again, that mean you, you say severe, but then they say severe as in needs because then there's a whole dilemma of does that mean behavior? Because then some schools blanketly won't take challenging behavior and only take the needs and not, you know, the whole package. So you've got another crisis of what that means. But that I would imagine would, because it's a very, would have to be some sort of legally binding. So that's where the EXP would still sit. But what they'll do is they'll keep that very minimal. So if you change the demand of who qualifies for an XCP, 'cause at the moment it actually is anyone that needs extra support in education regardless of the diagnosis. if you figure someone that's. Partially cited or something with needing the HCP, they're not gonna need a diagnosis or anything like that, or you know, they need the extra support. So that's the whole point of the hcp. that opens up the door for anybody to be able to get it, which they realize, which is why they're slowing it down.

Allya & Taz: Mm. Understood. And what, how does it impact parents who already [00:51:00] have an EHCP in this current form? Are they gonna go in and change that, or is it, 

Nate: I, I'm hoping, and I'm, I'm reading between the lines here because they're delaying anyone going through makes me think that they have to take on everyone that they've got one going forward. So, as I said, they might not scrap the A CP, it might still be there, but only it would be changed who you can get it. And, but all the people that have agreed before, 'cause it's legally binding document, I imagine they would have to keep that going. So that's why

Allya & Taz: who knows?

Nate: stopping it. Yeah. So that's why they're not vetting people through, because they don't want people to keep going through with this new whatever leg legalization.

Allya & Taz: Yeah, because then they'll have the EHCP and they'll have that document, which they have to then legally enforce, speak to. Yeah. That's crazy. So what reassurance would you offer parents who feel scrutinized or really overwhelmed?

Nate: Oh, there, there's, there's millions of us. It, it makes it, it, it is part of their tactics to make it look so stupid and such a minority. What [00:52:00] I'm seeing is, is it's far, far from a minority that if you are talking people just affected by send not people that directly, you've got a diagnosis that is huge.

So if you're, sorry, talk about family members. You talk about even like aunties, uncles, people dis so that's affecting them. Teachers, it's affected. That's pretty much all of them. People that are affected by it is huge. So there, there should be, and there, there is available. It's just finding it, but hopefully send help in other things and people can help. There is people out there will understand. So as lonely as it does feel at the moment. There is, there is those out there. And again, individuality something they're not giving us. So we know that our kids are all different, and it might not be the same for everybody, but the way they're treating us is the same. unfortunately we are not getting looked at as individuals and they're getting looked at as as sins or problems or diagnosis. So what they're doing to all of us is the same, which is why we're able to be able to support each other so efficiently because without the diagnosis it could be all different.

The the results are the same. We're all pushed through it together and it's accidentally created a really nice community in that [00:53:00] sense.

Allya & Taz: So does send help help families stay steady rather than sort of really panicked.

Nate: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. So I think just having, again, they try to voice as a gold because they're teachers as well, and like people like me in the register, manage the background that are, are parents first. It helps give the credibility of what they're saying as well with the professional backing.

So it's nice to have that in between instead of having to such straight professional or that parent and having someone in between. That's why I think it's that my trusted voice is, I, I love that idea of having to send parent first with a professional background so you can get these conversations and you can know you're not going mad.

And even hearing a teacher saying, no, teachers are, you know, whatever you wanna say, call them. You know? And the system is that, and they are blaming your children. That is gold. You know, I've, I still made conversations I've had with like Sam, one of them, and she's like, told me certain things are happening and it's like, oh my God, we're not actually going mad.

So, and it's like having that confirmation from the inside, sort of like that, that really helps.

Allya & Taz: It's that relatability, isn't it?

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. So if you could say one [00:54:00] thing to a parent who feels that they're failing their child, what would it be?

Nate: Stated, like, if

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: that doubt, I already, I, I can guarantee say you're not, because you're giving guilt, because you're not, because the support's not there, not because you've not supported, know, so even the question of, am I supporting enough? Surely you're caring enough, so,

Allya & Taz: what the child needs really, isn't it, knowing that you are in their corner, no matter, you don't have to get it a hundred percent right all the time. It's, humanly impossible. But as long as your son, your daughter, or your children know that, mom and dad have got my back no matter what.

Nate: Yep.

Allya & Taz: think that's, that's how we, that will just make them feel whole. Yeah, they'll feel it within everything of them. Like they'll know mom and dad have got us and that's all we need. Because I remember we were, when we were talking to our sin person in, in our son school, she was literally sitting right beside us on the table and she had all her scrappy pieces of paper, written scribbles of notes, all God know.

Well, and when we were questioning, where is he in terms of his, literacy, his numeracy, [00:55:00] and the answer we got back was, oh, children like him are meant to be behind. It's okay. For him to be two years. Two years behind. Yeah. And we just looked at each other after that. I mean, we got in the car and I just said we had a wobble.

We had a doubt. Are we like not doing enough for our son? is it because of us that he's behind? Or what is it? But only when we started going on down this journey, since the last sort of few months, we realized how much of a, we've realized it was score. Stupid calling. That was, yeah. Yeah. We've realized it was school that was actually holding him back.

Yeah. And because since he's been at home with us, we've been able to just. Take his mind beyond anything. like, I mean, he's just with science, for example, at key stage two case, key stage three level. But that's what happens when you go with a kid's interests. he, for example, you got the, you've got the times table.

 in school they're saying two times two, it's four. Four times two is eight. They They make you memorize it. Memorize it, yeah. Whereas they don't give you that context kind of context. Yeah. The context behind it. They don't give you the way to play with numbers, for [00:56:00] example. So there's a way that you can learn better than memorization.

Yeah. I mean, for someone to say that it's my child is meant to be behind, I mean, it is infuriating, but at that moment, so angry, we were just so, I don't know what it was. We just were quiet. I went from being angry to being really kind of feeling sorry for our son to then blaming ourselves.

Nate: Yeah.

Allya & Taz: not doing something right, but then they're being angry with the school.

They're being Yeah. It's like a vicious circle. Yeah. you keep going round and round and I thought if the school is causing this much aggravation to us as grown adults as parents, God knows what, imagine what it's doing to the child.

Nate: That's what I mean. Yeah, a hundred percent. That's, that's a

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: good point, isn't it? That's 'cause I, I had doubts when about me even doing this. And, and again, I've had, I even, I had it, I was like, I'm making my situation worse. I keep talking about his stuff on Facebook, he's getting it worse.

Schools are listening. They're not letting me go in because of it. And I think I'm make, I'm doing a bad job as a parent. And then I think someone said to me, you're like, pretty much, you're joking. You already seen in that house. Was you fighting with him for the last three months? I got stopped and I didn't [00:57:00] think of it that way. And I think

Allya & Taz: Yeah.

Nate: is, you know, if that's what we have to do, that's what we have to do. But even thinking that you're not doing enough, I think again, what children see is that you're fighting and you know, children, again, when I was only on, when I first my oldest, it was like I got panicked about, you know, being on that weekend, dad, oh, I'm not got enough time.

What's it gonna need? What do I need to do? I need to make everything a massive trip. Trip. And my mom said to me, you just need, they just need your time. You don't need to do anything. They just want you there. And I was like, what does that mean? And that's the same, isn't it? Kids just want your presence.

And as long as you're there, that's most of your work done. You know, you

Allya & Taz: Yeah,

Nate: You're different of time to get mistakes. You're not meant to get it perfect.

Allya & Taz: that's, and you can do really simple things with them, like just walk in the park. That is enough for them. Just kick a football about. That's it. That's all they want. They don't need these huge trips and for you to, go here and there with them and make a big deal of everything, just your presence is enough.

Nate: Yeah, that's it.

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: as well. Cheaper. Much cheaper. Because all them times I, I was going to fort bark out thinking this is killing me. And actually, to be fair, looking [00:58:00] back, it was making both our situations worse 'cause we're both, he's got autism agency, he's anxious about them stuff. So the actual planning and going was actually more stressful.

So the event was stressful than just actually coming to the park. That

Allya & Taz: Yeah. Yeah. It's,

Nate: chill for both of us.

Allya & Taz: I what you mean. The buildup is actually really stressful. Yeah. Yeah. Just getting out the door sometimes when even just going down to the shops with, local sainbury's with our kid, it's like, have you got your shoes on? Have you got your hat on? Have you got your coat on?

Get in the backseat, put your seatbelt on. let's, reverse the car out. Make sure we don't hit. Yeah, make sure you don't hit anyone. Yeah. So, no, definitely. Yeah. Okay. So we're just gonna conclude then. Nathan, thank you so much for, yeah. Thank you for the insights and everything and send help sounds absolutely amazing for families that need it.

So thank you so much for joining us on the SAYETH way today and for sharing your. Experiences so openly. We hope this conversation has helped listeners feel seen, understood, and less alone, especially those navigating send and education systems that don't always work as they should. We'll be linking, send [00:59:00] help in the show notes so listeners can find Nathan and access his support.

We'll also include our free home education guide, which shares practical information and resources that have supported our own journey. We're also working hard behind the scenes on creating a community space, a place for families to connect, share home education ideas, access webinars, and feel supported together.

We'll share more about that soon. This podcast is about opening up honest conversations around education, especially when the traditional system doesn't fit, and we'll be bringing more voices and lived experiences into this space very soon. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.

Thank you.