Is School Starting Too Early? | Learning Beyond the Classroom with Sarah

In this episode of The SY-ED Way, we’re joined by Sarah from Nature Sparks for a thoughtful conversation around childhood, developmental readiness, and learning beyond the classroom.

Together, we explore why so many parents are beginning to question the pressure placed on young children, particularly within the UK education system where formal schooling begins at such an early age.

We talk about:
 • whether children are starting school too soon
 • the importance of play, slowness, and connection
 • how nature supports emotional wellbeing and learning
 • what “real learning” actually looks like
 • and why children develop best when they feel safe, seen, and unhurried

This conversation is calm, reflective, and deeply reassuring for parents who feel something about modern childhood and education no longer feels right.

If you’ve ever wondered whether learning has to happen inside four walls, this episode is for you.

📘 Download our free Home Education PDF Guide:
https://www.thesyedway.co.uk/acalmstarttohomeeducation 

🌱 Buy the Project Based Learning Blueprint
https://www.thesyedway.co.uk/projectbasedlearning

📲 Follow Sarah / Nature Sparks:
https://www.facebook.com/share/1GkckSL4tD/?mibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.skool.com/naturesparks/about

#HomeEducation #NatureLearning #ChildLedLearning #TheSYEDWay #Parenting #AlternativeEducation #NatureSchool #OutdoorLearning

Transcript

Why Parents Question School

SPEAKER_03 0:03

This podcast exists because we know how many parents are quietly questioning education. Not because they want something radical, but because what they're seeing in front of them doesn't feel right for their child. We're Alia and Taz, parents navigating home education together, and this is the Sayed Way. In this episode, we're slowing things right down to talk about learning beyond the classroom, what it actually looks like in real life, how children develop at different paces, and why so many families are rethinking early pressure and rigid expectations. This episode will explore learning beyond the classroom with a particular focus on transitioning from traditional education to home education, early childhood and development readiness, the role of nature in meaningful learning, and what home education looks like in practice and not theory.

Meet Sarah of Nature Sparks

SPEAKER_00 0:53

So I'm today really excited to introduce Sarah, the founder of Nature Sparks, which is all about getting children out and about in the outdoors and learning by being outdoors. Sarah, welcome on the podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really good and I'm really excited to talk to you guys today. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Brilliant. Now we're really excited to hear everything you've got to say because when we first came across you, we thought that is perfect. Like it's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

We've met you on our podcast and we want to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Especially, you know, being outdoors with kids the way they are, being on screens and inside a boxing classroom is really good what you're doing. So I just want to sort of dive in really into how it all started, your background, and go from there,

Teaching Abroad Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 1:33

really.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, so I s was a primary teacher for many years. Actually, over 15 years, I was teaching in different places. Started in the UK, where I qualified, and very quickly I found that it was very difficult to be in the classrooms due to behaviour mainly. So then I looked at travelling and ended up in Australia. I taught in schools in Australia, Czech Republic as well, and international schools, and I started to notice that other countries did things differently to the UK, first of all, and then that kind of started that full small seed of home education and what it could look like for me in the future.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Brilliant. So from the UK to the Czech Republic to Australia and then back again to the UK. That's quite a journey. What would you say where were out of the three sort of locations? Which one would you say was the most where you thought would be done here in the UK?

Why Starting at Seven Works

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Definitely the contrast between Czech Republic, which is similar to other countries in Europe, in the fact that the children don't start school formal education until they're seven years old. So I started noticing that first of all, these children are very outdoorsy as well. They played a lot outside. In the winter, they had snow, unlike in the UK where everything stopped. They went skiing and did all kinds of things. I just found that the children there, even though they started at seven, I compared them in my head to my reception kids because I'd I actually specialised in reception and key stage one. And I just noticed that they were totally ready. They enjoyed learning. Not every single child, not every single school, of course, but on the overall, I just started to think, yeah, we first of all we send our children to school far too soon. And also their schools finish like 1.32 pm. So they had lots more time for extracurricular activities. Also, even just from a kind of cultural perspective, they have three years' maternity leave, every family. And I think again, that is not trying to change the whole as a society, but I think it's ingrained in the culture that it's like family first rather than just kids get to four years old, we've got to pack them off with their little so tiny, their little school uniforms, sitting down at a desk writing. I was like, this is not the same as England, and but this works, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Yeah, no, I've always spoken to Taz about this, and I think education starts way too early, and I think they're just not ready. And by the time they get to seven, they should have that time as playtime and learning through play rather than sitting behind a desk and being forced into a classroom environment. I think that whole system just does not work for I'd say 90% of children.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I totally agree with you, and I do really wrote on my Facebook page it had a really big response to a poem about it was to the boys in my old reception class. It was like I'm writing a letter to them and I said I'm sorry because I would be so infuriated with them like sit down, like why can't they sit still? Why can't they sit still in assembly? And it was just I look back and thought, you know what? It's because they can't. They developmentally are not supposed to be sitting down for long periods of time. This is not to say that wild, crazy, like terrible behaviour is okay. I'm not that's not what it's about. It's about what they developmentally can do, and they're not like you say, many of them aren't ready. Also, the research shows that they're not ready as well. Scandinavia, so many countries that like for example, Finland, where children's education is like the benchmark of the best education in the world, they don't start till they're seven, and when they start at seven, by the time they get to ten, they are surpassing UK children at the same age in English and maths. So it just goes to show those years don't do anything, but they're actually detrimental rather than having a positive effect from four to seven.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So, in your kind of view, like we obviously having worked in the education system across multiple countries and the UK, why do you think UK government or the education department or whatever the authority basically I'm sure they're aware of all these studies out there which show that kids from seven are doing much better than as you're saying, why do you think they'd let choose to ignore it and just carry on with the current system in the way it is, just in your view?

SPEAKER_02 5:57

It's a really good question. I guess, like politicians would say, they're trying to implement more play-based learning. And I know there's quite a few people, there's a lady on Facebook actually that is she's pushing for like more play at reception year one, year two. But I personally feel like that's a band aid over some I think they should be at home ultimately, but of course, the way our society is set up is that mum's work, dad's work, we're all stressed, we're all crazy, the kids are medicated at age six with ADHD. When again, I'm not saying that children don't have special needs at all. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that I think there are some cases where the children just need to be playing outside, have the freedom, and then they wouldn't be diagnosed with so many of these things. And I think the government maybe it's the fact that they this is the way it's always been. Something needs to change. This is the way it's always been, but just because it is the way it's always been doesn't mean we need to continue this because it's not working, is it? Look at us, we're all home educating, and I'm sure you've heard the same story. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

No, I completely agree. I think something does need to change and drastically as well, and not just at a small level, really a drastic change needs to happen in order to see more children back in the school system, where the school system is a better place for them, a place where they can actually really learn because at the moment we just feel like it's not that place, especially for us and our child. Um, it just became a place of misery, really,

Labels and Early Pressure

SPEAKER_03 7:34

didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, I mean, he just to give you a bit of background, he obviously was going to school, he made some friends, but what we were finding was that his overall development when he came to where he should have been in terms of his metrics, he wasn't there. But it's not even where he should have been, it's just that he wasn't behind.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

It was more that yeah, it was more how I guess he was feeling as well in school.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Because this is where we went wrong, where we got sucked into the whole narrative that he has to be at a certain point where he needs to be. And we were just thinking, where he's not why is he behind this and the other? We started labelling it ourselves and we're guilty of that, which is which I realise now. When I when we took a step back and we started looking at education as a whole, and what you're saying, where in a lot of countries they start their kids from seven on seven years onwards, yeah. And those kids are thriving, yeah, and they're doing much better in your own words, you know, and not just yours, but research shows that they're doing better. So we just thought, what are we doing? What are we doing to this little man?

SPEAKER_02 8:35

And the thing is, you don't even maybe realize there's another way because I think that's that's why I love what you guys are doing, like raising awareness that there's another way to do it. You don't actually have to send them at four years old, you can keep because simply like I see so many questions. Is that legal or is that allowed? And it just keeps whether it is allowed. And like you said, I always think behind who, like when they say behind, behind who, these are just a group of children who all develop individually at different times. Of course, I'm not saying that tests are not needed, and I'm not saying throw everything out the window, but at this age, it just proves play is best. Like my daughter, she's six as well, and I have a niece who is the same age, she's just a few months older, and she's gone to school. My niece has gone to school, and she started reading from the off straight away. So we'd be at like the table at dinner time, but the whole family would be there, the aunts and uncles and everyone, and she'd get out a book, and I'd be like, No, please don't read because Grace doesn't read yet. She's started now. Um I was thinking she's gonna sit there, so she sat there, and everyone's like, Wow, she's amazing. She's like a third grade reader and she's year one. But I slowly learned over time that it you don't have to compare to what why do we compare to whom? Maybe later on there is room for comparison when they're older and they can understand more, but all of this uh certainly it just doesn't make sense, does it? When they're gonna catch up anyway.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Yeah, but I think it's also the way that our minds are within that system. We're what am I conditioned? We're conditioned, exactly. We're conditioned to believe that our son or daughter is behind, we're conditioned to believe that they're not gonna be able to catch up or they're meant to be behind.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

It's another thing that we've been told by a school before is that our son is meant to be two years behind, and we're just like, but why is he meant to be two years behind? It's something that didn't drop for us at that very moment, but when we have done a lot of self-like reflection and looked back at what happened and what was said, we realise that what was actually said was completely wrong because he's not behind.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Gosh, and that's not ahead either, he's where he needs to be.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Exactly. And that you give you put that label on him, you think that's him, and then they can carry that label sometimes. You've intervened, which is amazing, and home educating, but I guess for some children they carry that label then forever, they'll be behind the rest of their lives. Yeah. Oh, that's awful, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

I did, yeah. I mean when I was in primary school, we I was told I was behind with my reading, my maths, everything. And right up until I was at college level, I still thought I wasn't academically. It's only when I went to did my A levels and everything, and I started to self-study, not being lectured out or talk because when you get to college and all that's a little bit more flexible learning. Yeah, it's only when I started learning at my own pace I thought, hold on, I do have more than two brain cells.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Oh gosh, it's awful. The funny thing is, yeah, when I met him, I thought he was like super intelligent, the things he was coming out with, and I was just like, you know, you're really that label.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

But yeah, that's see that that's the thing, it's it's just like you say, it's so once you step out of it. I don't know if you guys are the same, but I found that now I'm haven't been like my daughter's never gone to school, but a year and a half in, I'm not even thinking about like these comparisons at all now. I don't even think in these categories now we do so much learning, but just like such beautiful theme-based, like child ed learning, and she's learning so much that like the other day, someone said, What year would she be in? And I was like, I can't even remember which year would she be in? Which is nice, which is nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Yeah, it's really son keeps asking us whether his class has moved to year three now, where he was in. But we wish that we had not sent him to school, but then I guess we had to experience it for ourselves to know that there's no way we're going to be sending him to school, and even secondary, we plan to home educate.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yeah, it

Deschooling and Learning at Home

SPEAKER_02 12:36

this is the thing I think for some parents, it is just trying out, and sometimes you get parents like might be listening now that not both parents are on board, so maybe one parent wants to send so you trying it at the end of the day, you know what's right for your family, and I think you can tell quite soon if it's not working. I do think attachment comes into it as well. I do think children are strongly attached to their parents, and you are because people say, Oh, you're not. I'm obviously a teacher, so it's a bit easier for me to say I can teach my daughter because I'm a teacher, but you are the best teachers your child will ever have, and there's so many resources now, isn't there, like available. Oh, yeah, there's no internet, and like you can go above your own level of education and teach your child even when they're because I'm like, I can't do A-level maths, there's just no way, but I'm the same as you, I'm hoping to do this journey like long term, but I know that I don't have to know it myself, I can use other things and resources to help my daughter, so there's no fear there anymore for me, and I think yeah, other parents need to know that and feel the same.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

I mean, I think you need to go through it for a period of time to then come out the other side because it does take a long time to de-school your minds and to de-score your child's mind. Our child's de-scored already, he was like de-scored the first day he got home, but um with us, it's taking longer to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, yeah, you think it's on a long holiday right now.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

It's still a work in progress for us.

Reading Without the Boring Books

SPEAKER_02 14:03

I would say, even for for me, even though I just said no fear, doesn't mean that I have those doubts, and I think it's a bit like a roller coaster sometimes. Where I think with the reading thing, I would try a little bit and then and again it's like it's not about because I think some people think that child led equals no discipline, no rules, no boundaries. And in our house, I thought it's definitely not we have a lot of boundaries because I believe children need boundaries. But we I tried it with her, and she I could just see it wasn't quite working six months ago. So a few times I thought, oh, she's gonna be six, and we haven't really got into like proper books. And I remembered in reception they'd be taking those Biff Chipper and Kip and the whole like Oh, we are with stories home. No, and the thing is, if your child likes it, that's great. My daughter was just like there was a book that said something like the rat is bad, the rat is red, is the rat. And it was just because you have to use small words all the way through it. My husband was like, This is the most reversive, boring book ever. So I just scrapped it, and now we I read her a story, and if I get to a word that I think she might know, like today we looked at wink in the story, and I pointed to it. She read the word, but it's an interesting story rather than those bland ones. So, again, that's something that a lot of people think the only way you can learn to read is through this reading code system, and you know, it's not there's so many different ways.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

He's now at a point oh when he reads all my emails, like when before I send it to a client, and you read subtitles, yeah, it just weeds anything.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

And I'm guessing, yeah, yeah. I'm guessing that's a with a lot of home educated children where they feel safe, their nervous systems are completely regulated at home, and they want to learn, they've got this eagerness to learn.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah, yeah. That's what we notice when he was at school, he was so like disengaged from any kind of questioning or just with us. Just a conversation. I'll ask him, like, so what did you what was your favourite thing about school today? I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah, that's exactly I hear that all the time. Yeah, and you want to know because you want you're invested in what their day is being like, and you're probably thinking them of a lot during the day, and you want to know, but they often shut down. It's I mean, I do think children in general sometimes can be like that, but I have noticed a lot of my friends with kids say the same thing that they want to get home and they're so exhausted. A lot of them people I've spoken to, they just watch TV when they get home because they need to just decompress or yeah, and again, I'm not anti-school, I'm not saying that like school is awful. I think that yeah, every family does what's right for their children, and we have the right to choose that for our kid, basically.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Was it when you started teaching abroad that you realised that traditional education might not be the right fit for your family?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

I hadn't actually I hadn't even met my husband or had grace at that point, but it was I think it was just more that I was so disillusioned because I love, as you probably tell, I'm quite like an enthusiastic person, I love teaching. I love connecting with children, finding out something they're interested in. I think that's the key, like something that's relevant and interesting. You can see it sparking there, I'm sure you have it with your son, the light bulb just goes off. But I just didn't get the chance to do that. When I was teacher training, I got quite a lot of opportunity and we learned all of this methodology and it was wonderful. But when I went into the classroom, it was just behaviour management, crowd control, 30, and even if you walked into a wonderfully behaved class, there's still 30 children that you have to connect with and adapt the learning for, and it's just very difficult. I think if you had to do that without all of the government targets and this constant pushing, pushing of tests and things, then in itself that would be okay. Like when I was at school, it wasn't, it was more like topic-based. I can't remember when the national curriculum came in, I think it was 89. But yeah, when I was at school, it wasn't the same, but I think things are just getting more pushy and more assessments. It's going the opposite way. The children are suffering and the assessments are going up, it's just madness.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

It's all about the metrics now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah, I think a lot of teachers would say the same. They love teaching, they love the children, but the metrics, the bureaucracy and the yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it's great for the education secretary to come out with her wonderful ideas, but she's never taught. I think it's about people that really have been hands-on in the classroom and of stuff. I did have I had I did supply teaching in some schools when I came back from travelling for a few months, and I had chairs thrown at me and called the N-word by seven-year-olds, and all madness. Because you go to different schools, you get a real flavour of the education system. Went to some lovely schools as well, but then in some of the lovely schools, some of the children that were motivated were left behind because the children that needed more assistance, they had more of the attention on them, so it's just really it's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

It's a lot of almost like a very it's not very level, isn't it? Like the whole system. It's they're trying to build a system where it's one size fits all.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Yes, exactly. It definitely isn't one size fits all.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

100%.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah, it's very than from hundreds of people that we speak to every week. Really.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Can I ask, like, when you obviously you're home educating for your daughter, when you first came and decided to do that as a family, what was thinking of your friends and family around you? What were they, what was their kind of viewpoint around it? Because I want to get into that a little bit and share our experience.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah, because it's hard for some families. I have been really lucky actually that my parents were very understanding. My mum, she was a nurse, but then when we were younger, she was a child my desire, she decided to stay at home with us, and so she was used to that kind of play-based learning, and we went to the little local school like five minutes down the road, everyone knew each other, that kind of thing. So I think they were not super shocked, and as I said, my sister, who we get on really well with daughter the same age, you would think there'd be some conflict, but actually, it's just been really nice because she knows I'm doing what's best for my daughter, I know she's doing what's best for hers. So, in regards to that, we've just been and I'm like also on Facebook, probably like you guys, I think social media is amazing to be able to make connections. So, when you get your community, my family are so pleased. Like when I show them pictures of Grace at gymnastics, where she's going this afternoon, or homemade gymnastics. There's a home ed climbing wall just down the road from where we live, and I think once you get into a community and start doing things, then family and friends, you can't argue with a smiling face of a child with friends with them. You're like, this is proof. We're not just sitting at home rocking, home educated.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah,

Socialisation Beyond Age Boxes

SPEAKER_03 21:06

that's what people think, isn't it? They think there's no socialization, and we just lock them indoors, and they're just that's it, they're just indoors. It's the funniest thing that we have to explain to people over and over again. Definitely. What do you do?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah, exactly. You can't explain it to everyone, even again. I'm guilty of this. When we first started discussing home education, one of the first concerns I had was what about his social development? How is he gonna make friends? Whatever. Although I had no inclination to keep him locked in the house or anything. Yeah, of course. How is he gonna how is he gonna meet people?

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yeah, very quickly, our diaries got full. We're just like chauffeuring him everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah, actually, you find too many activities like after Christmas. Oh, we need to be able to do it. So many.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

And the amazing thing is he's interacting with kids who are older than him, younger than him, from all that backgrounds, all that's the nice thing about home educated children, isn't it? It's just the way he's adapting, is like he's there's Again, he goes to this climbing place, and one of the kids he's made friends with is what 12 years old.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Oh, that's half he's double his age.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

And he looks up to him, and yeah, it is, yeah. And then he's got another thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

You can get along with different age groups as well. That's real world, though, isn't it? That's real world. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

I always sorry to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah, sorry. No, I got it, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

No, I just see you probably heard of this, but like I told my husband he was like, Yes, because my husband was a little bit like at the beginning, like, not sure. And I think he was thinking, Oh, what are those what are they gonna be doing all day? He works from home, so he's upstairs thinking, like, what are they doing? But when I I heard about how imagine going to work and you go to your office, but you're only allowed in the office where everybody I'm like 43 years old, so I can only go in the office with the 43-year-olds, like, and then the next door is like the 40s, and you only can hang around at lunchtime, you don't go and sit with the 45-year-olds, it's everything is in boxes, and you only socialise with those people. It's just weird the way that it doesn't make for real life interactions, and that's what we do with children. It's I know some classes they'd be like, Oh, I'm not gonna sit with year twos because we're year three kind of thing, and it develops this strange, like you say, the aging is brilliant to mix with different children who you can look up to or you can help. It yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

I know. I love the way he talks like it's because conversational ability is also very adult-like now.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

And yeah, is it the same with your daughter as well? Grace is hilarious. I bet you probably laugh at some of the words that she comes that they come out with. I'm like, my goodness, me to say something today, but like frequently, I was like, frequently, how did she really and like you said, you can get into the questions she asks, it's just amazing. And that's why I know that when she does start reading, I know that shadow of doubt, she's doing four-letter words at the moment and like small sentences, but I know once she does, she's gonna fly with it because, like you say, it's the it's all about communication, isn't it? And I actually do think that reading, if we tell children that reading is about communication and learning, rather than just like passing a test, then it makes so much more sense to them.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, definitely. What did he say to me the other day? I asked him something because I said, Did you do that? And he goes, Bro, I absolutely did not do that.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I'm broken, I'm not even dad, or one of them, I'm just broke.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

And the way they like quite a few boys, isn't it? They come back to you with like things, and you think, actually, yeah, that's a because she said to me, like, your room's a mess. And I was like, Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Well, yeah, oh yeah, it's always bust on to you.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, but you said that, but you did that, yeah. And that's the critical thinking skills that that come from just going about your daily life with your parents, and I just love the fact that we can be there like little guides, not helicopter's parents, if they do have questions about life or the bigger things and like really important things to your family, for example, like you can be the one that shares that information, or you go and explore it together or so. What do you think? Whereas at school you would just miss that opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Oh, yeah.

Nature as the Best Classroom

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yes, okay. So nature is central to your work. What does learning in and through nature offer that formal settings often can't?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Oh my goodness, where to start? I think, as an example, if you've ever taken a child, like especially you know, five, six, seven, eight, probably even way beyond that age, out somewhere and you've been in the car for a while, you open the door, the first thing it's almost like a puppy or Grace does this, they jump out and they just want to either they're running around circles or you tend them not to because there's a car park or something. But I think their natural inclination is just to move their bodies and to run, and it's like you release them. And it was the same when I was in the classroom, I would open the door at playtime, and they were like lions out of a cage, and they would actually roar at each other, especially the boys, they and they would scream, and sometimes, gosh, it's so noisy, and I hated doing playground ground duty. A lot of the teachers were like, 'Oh, we have to go out and start on the playground at all playtime.' So noisy because I think being outside releases something that you just can't get in indoors. I think on a like a deeper level that we probably can't even understand, just the environment of being outdoors. But obviously, there's a space, there's a movement, being able to try things that you wouldn't, you know, inside different challenges. And I just think, yeah, given a choice, I think most children, before they're introduced to a screen, because once they are, that can change things. But I think they would prefer to be outdoors. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

And there's also the science behind being outdoors and the health benefits as well. A lot in the sunshine, the sun, the UV rays, and everything else, the grounding, feet being on the ground, of course, all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Yeah, I love I didn't know about that until quite recently. About the grounding and summertime, because Grace always likes to have shoes on running around the garden. My husband's like, Oh, what's she gonna stand in? But now I'm like, she's grounding. So good for the natural benefits are massive, and I think for me as well, it's I spent my childhood running around like the woods, and it when we played outside, people come and knock on our door, like are you coming out to play? And we just go out and play out all evening until my dad would stand there and shout for us to come home, kind of thing. So I just love that it's freedom, isn't it? But you don't have to naturally necessarily be in a wood or climbing trees, you can just be like standing on the street somewhere chatting to your mates, but it's that freedom of being out of this box, like you say.

Everyday Wonder Outdoors

SPEAKER_00 27:44

The other day I was at a meeting, and I took my son with me, and we came out and we're walking back to the car, and I was holding his hand, and then all of a sudden he quickly lets go of my hand, bends down, and he's I look back, we say, Moose, what are you doing? And he's touching some moss on a bit of pavement, and I'm like, What are you doing? He goes, Nothing, I'm just touching nature. And it was the most normal thing, which it is obviously. I've looked at him and I thought, you know what? He's he's such an outdoorsy kind of person, yeah. You know, you just had to let go of my hand, bend down, and touch a bit of grass or moss or whatever

Kids Need Wild Play

SPEAKER_00 28:14

it was. And I said, as long as it's not, yeah, you're all good, mate. And but it's just gave made me realize how important this whole amateur is. They're naturally inclined to nature, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yeah, and you don't have to even I teach nature classes, but you don't actually even have to teach them how to do those things, like you say, they just are drawn to my daughter. If you go for a walk, sometimes my husband gets like annoyed because it's like every five minutes, not five minutes, every minute, it's a ladybird. You have to stop and look at it, or stop and do this, or run up the hill and then slide back down. And it's just it's in

School Limits Outdoor Time

SPEAKER_02 28:48

them, and the sad thing is, I think, is that we once they go to school. I was thinking about it the other day, especially in summertime or spring, like the amount of time we spend outside, when would Grace be outdoors? I was thinking the playground, you've got a hard time at just to run around on, but then I know some schools do forest schools, but really you get dropped off about half eight till three every day, and then the games and extracurricular activities often are very much organised, so it's not just go and play, it's we're gonna do football or we're gonna have tennis kind of thing, and that idea of just being outdoors without any kind of rules from the parents and just playing out. I've I think something like fifth I can't remember the statistics, I won't say, but it was very low percentage of children actually do that now. They are ferried from place to place, they might be outside, but it's to do a strict activity, and like you say, the science shows that it they're losing so much from that the way their minds work developmentally, physically, mentally. It's terrible, really.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Yeah, definitely. Um

Follow the Spark

SPEAKER_03 30:04

so for parents listening in who feel unsure or inter intimidated by nature learning, what does this look like on a day-to-day for you?

SPEAKER_02 30:14

At the moment, not as much because I've injured my leg, but normally on a day-to-day, I think it's about a spark, the spark, my classical nature sparks, and the reason for that goes back to what we've been talking about previously about like childhood development that it's not we're gonna go out and learn about butterflies or moths or this very structured approach, it's more so sometimes Grace will see something out the window, and I'm like, Oh, let's go and discover more about it. So I remember once when it was a ladybird, then we decided to go out on a walk because it came naturally from her to spot different ladybirds, and she was counting them. And again, if you wanted to, you could do a tally chart of that. So it's adding so many different parts of learning. She took photographs of them. We came home and did symmetrical where you have the piece of paper and fold it in half with the spots one side the same the other, and it sounds to me, it's like just obvious because that's what I've always done, and because I've got like the teacher mode on. But I think for parents that have never done it before, it is starting with that spark. Look out the window and just see something, or say we want to go out and look for I don't know, go and collect leaves, or do you feel like going to this hill and rolling down? Just giving them a spark, and then once once you're outside, it can just develop from there. It can often be you're outside then for hours rather than a bridge. Sorry.

Project Based Learning Flow

SPEAKER_03 31:47

We're huge believers in project-based learning, like when you see a spark, and then, like you said, build on that spark because there's so many subjects that can then be built into that, not just one subject, it could be five subjects within just that one project, and projects can last for as long as you want them to. It could be a day, it could be a couple of weeks, it could be a month, it could just be a couple of hours.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah, exactly. And it's in school, you don't have that. So you once you get it like we get excited about something. Can you imagine if you saw something on Instagram or YouTube, whatever, and you're like, oh, I'm gonna learn a bit more about that. If someone said, Oh, tomorrow you can't, you have to wait until next week, between 10 and 11, to learn about it, you'd be like, oh, and with children, you wanna them to like you said, immerse might be a few hours, it might be weeks. And I think as parents, it's so much more enjoyable when you can see that it's all connected to something.

Birdsong Lesson Example

SPEAKER_02 32:45

So in my class today, we did about bird songs because in February this time of year, people think that it's not till spring, but right now there are the young birds are imitating, they're not able to sing so well, so they're practicing their songs before it gets to like proper spring. And the children like fascinated, and then we practice whistling, and we looked at music, and then they're gonna go out and do bird counts and studies and this week, and it again I leave it up to the parents to see how much more they want to explore and how the children want to explore, but it's relevant. Whereas if you're in a classroom and you've just got a textbook and it's we're gonna learn the parts of an animal, it's not relevant to their life. Whereas if you're like, I said to Grace this morning, what do you hear? Just oh my goodness, I can hear them. The young birds, I can hear them now. So it's it's practical and it makes sense to them.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, your classes sound like really nice, actually. I think it's something that we're definitely considering, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

I think for our son, like being out and about is like the end all and be all for it.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Yeah, and just to maybe get a subject started and then you can explore it because I think it's a little bit difficult for some parents to know what to do. So kind of classes give them the ideas, and then they go out and explore, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

It's like in the early days when we first yeah, started home educating. We just went for a walk in the park. Yeah, and he just goes, What does grass, what do what how does grass eat? He just said it out loud, and I thought, hold on, photosynthesis.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

So we came back, drew a whole big old diagram about photosynthesis, and that was it literally started from that one small question.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

What does grass eat?

AI as Learning Helper

SPEAKER_02 34:26

And it's I remember going on ChatGPT, and this is a really amazing resource. Maybe some parents know now because it's been out for a long time, but like you just said, Grace once asked me about the stream, and she's oh, how long does this we saw a stream in the forest? How long does it take for this stream to get to the sea? I was like, I have no idea. Like, literally, I don't know, let's go home and ask ChatGPT. So I asked ChatGBT, explained to a five-year-old, she was five at the time, how this stream and of course, then it gives you in child-relevant language straight away. Then I asked it for further activities that we could do for art or some poems, and it we could have done like weeks and weeks worth of work on one question. So, again, it's like you can prov it's not that we are the fountain of knowledge, and I think that's a thing that people think, and especially now the world is changing with technology, with AI. It's not that the teacher is how it used to be, we're the ones with all the answers you come to us. Now we're giving our children ways of learning and resources and critical thinking of how can you find out more information for yourself rather than we're just going to provide it to you, which is actually probably going to make our children so much more resourceful than those who have just been in school for the future.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Yeah, I think so. We think that Czech GPT and Gemini are really fantastic in terms of you know asking it questions like you did, for example, and he uses Gemini as well to really bring it down to the six-year-old level with certain subjects, and I think it's really important for us to not go against AI but to use it to our advantage.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think that obviously there are limitations for sure, and I'm always around when Grace has got a device or asking these kind of things, but again, if you if it can help us home educate and it can help our children develop and grow, it would be it wouldn't make sense not to use it, I think, because that's the world we're in, isn't it? And so much good can come from it if you have the right balance and perspective.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

I mean, yesterday my son asked me, goes, Dad, is Poland in Europe? And I'm like, Yeah, but how do you know about Poland and how do you know about Europe? And he watches this thing on YouTube kids, it's like a guy who plays video games, and we when he has his little time out, we give him a 30 minutes on there, and one of the games the guy I was playing was Country's Different Flags. It's a game, it's meant to be entertainment, yeah. But he really learned something. He goes, It's Poland and Europe. I'm like, How do you know? They goes, Oh, I learned from Jamesify, what are the channels called? I said, Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

There was Max Ninja Picker.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

He's got a new one now, yeah. It's Jamesify or whatever it's called. So I thought, wow, so you're actually learning something while you're meant to be entertaining yourself. So a lot of parents may disagree with that, but I think it's absolutely fine to be fair. I honestly think when he gets home, yeah.

Screen Time to Green Time

SPEAKER_02 37:30

It's like you what you just said is what I said about the spark. That's giving him a spark. If then you're gonna spend another four hours on a game, then of course that's not like a healthy way to lead that. But if they're doing it for a certain period of time and it sets a spark off, then absolutely why not? And I say I used to say that my classes were like a bit of screen time for a whole week's worth of green time. That's one of my catchphrase. But now I say, like, it's screen time can help green time as well. Like today, there is no way I could have done my class, first of all, without using the zoom technology that I used, but also I shared with them different birds, and they had to listen to the birds and try to identify which sounds that the birds were making, and there's so many things from YouTube that are just amazing. We were looking at polar ice caps because we were studying Arctic foxes, and I showed them the picture of the Arctic, and it they were just like amazed, and it's yeah, it can take you to like new worlds and new places, which is of course that sparks imagination, which is brilliant.

Nature Sparks Class Format

SPEAKER_03 38:38

What are the age range for your class?

SPEAKER_02 38:41

So it's from even from three up to ten, which it sounds like a really wide range, but again, this is the lovely thing about Home Ed that I have lots of families that join, so you'll get like the little one at three and the older seven or eight-year-old, and they're each kind of learning something from it and taking away something. And yeah, basically, we look at a different topic each week, and I share fascinating facts. I try and find like the most inspirational facts that I can because that's what catches their attention. But it's always to do, apart from like once a month when we do something like polar bears, things far away. The other three weeks of the month are things that are actually happening, they can see with their own eyes right now because some last week we did rain, which was really relevant because you've had loads of it, and they made their own rain gauges where they had like a plastic bottle and they had to put the levels and they put them in the garden, and then every day they had to track how much rain they got, and then rather than make it into all you have to record everything. I said, if you want to record it, you could draw a bottle for each day of the week, and then just colour in how much rain you've got up to the level marker, and then if you want, you could add up how much rain you got in a week. They don't even realise they do maths, but it's yeah, bringing mathematics into it, science into it. But most of all, the most important thing is that it's relevant because they can see it's happening in front of them. So why learn? I remember in geography learning things that were really quite boring, and maybe it was interesting for the wider world, but it didn't really make sense to my life right now, and I think at this age that's what they need.

Real Life Skills vs Curriculum

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Yeah, I think that's with a lot of subjects, though, isn't it? There's a lot of things that we did in school that just don't make sense for us now or just are not relevant at all.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Pythagoras' theorem being one of them.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

I was just about to say, well, I I I failed my maths GCSE and I hated maths, and then I had to retake it to do teacher training. And I remember Pythagoras' theorem as being like, I just think that trigonometry and all these yeah, I have never used it since then, but I didn't learn about mortgages or interest rates, which would be really useful now.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Yeah, exactly. This this is one of the things we're looking to really go down the route of is teaching real life kind of skills, business, money, yeah. Well, people have actually done it, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Experts in the field, yeah. That's such a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

I remember when I asked my maths teacher, am I ever going to use algebra or trigonometry? Why am I having to learn this? Can you leave the classroom, please? And I just stood outside for an hour just twigging my thumbs.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

This thing is a system that has been going for decades, which has not really changed. I mean, I did do a post about like I said how the fire of London and like Battle of Hastings and all these like dates, and I remember at school, not to say they're not interested. I know some kids might get into the fire of London and think, oh, it's so fascinating, but it's almost like there's these points in history that we have to learn about, but there's other things that could be so much more, probably maybe influential for our families or important to us as individuals that to learn about that are not in the curriculum. And I just think that is it's crazy that the government come up with a curriculum that we all as a country must learn about, but actually, we're all so like different, we're all supposed to be diverse yeah. Why can't we choose what we want our kids to learn about or what they're interested in? Yeah, and it like you say, it's boring, a lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

A lot of it, unfortunately. Yeah, it's

Critical Thinking and Resources

SPEAKER_00 42:24

a lot of it is especially history, so much of it is just edited out the way I see it. Now that I've read more about certain things, and YouTube being my biggest educator, I hate to say it, but I learn a lot from there, and people may laugh at that or whatever, but it's it's another source of information. It's a resource, isn't it? It's a resource now. Oh gosh, as much as a big old thick hole encyclopedia would have been, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Yeah, and you again, like everything, you you have a balanced perspective when you go into it, you know that not everything is true, not not everything is accurate. However, if you as an individual are able to make that decision for yourself, and I think it's great that we live in a world where we don't just have to believe what the BBC tells us, we can go and find more things, and our children can grow up asking. I love this question. My husband always is like, Why do we do the things we do? That is such a great question to like fit everything and all aspects, and again, for home education, that's a big one, isn't it? Because why do you send your children to school? And that's the thing that started the ball rolling for me. I was like, I can see it doesn't really work. I don't really want chairs thrown at my child in a school, and there's gotta be another way. And then I started thinking, yeah, why do I have to go along with what everybody else does or the mainstream critical thinking? So it starts from us, and then we show that to our kids, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

We instill it in our children as well, yeah, give them give them that independence.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Exactly. I think that's what's lacking nowadays. It's very Amazon. I call it the Amazon generation, where you click and it suddenly arrives at your doorstep. It's like that information, go seek out the knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

There's no excuse not to give in the resources and everything we have nowadays.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Jump on the bus and go to the library like we used to.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Yeah, library. Yeah. I see a library. I drive past it and I think, how long will it be before this library shuts down?

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

You know, I always kind of have that thought in the back of my head.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

I hope that they carry on because I know there's quite a few homemade groups like meet there and there are places where you can go and actually obviously to look at books as well, but like community areas as well. So I really hope that they don't they evolve with the times as well.

Home Ed Misconceptions

SPEAKER_00 44:39

So in terms of misconceptions that you face yourself through home education, like what kind of misconceptions do you face where you know people have a certain image of what home education should look like?

SPEAKER_02 44:53

I think the main one from a lot of people who message me on Facebook is that they feel like they've got replicate school, which I guess you probably hear a lot from your viewers as well. And just to understand that hopefully from this conversation, you can see that we are not replicating school at all. Like the main requirements, because this is have to be careful sometimes. It's not that don't do any learning, don't do any, don't have any structure whatsoever. Because the local authority may send you a letter and you may have to write a report. And but the key word for me in that report is progress. You have to show progress, and I believe in all child ed learning you can show progress. Like you can see from your study, probably in a matter of weeks, if you start on some subject, how much they've progressed, how much they've learned in a skill or just knowledge. The misconception, yeah, would be that you have to do a timetable, it has to be there's similar things every day, that you have to follow the national curriculum, which you don't at all. So we are very blessed in this country that we don't have

Policy Concerns and Advocacy

SPEAKER_02 45:57

we have. I just hope that we'll keep our rights home ed as well.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Yeah, there's a lot of changes that are coming in at the moment, which while they plan to make it not as great, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

We'll see how that does.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Yeah, I think to be honest, I try not to be negative about it because I think I just think you know what, it's thriving and it's growing. And when I look to like my community and like the clubs and all these things, I'm like, it's they can try things I know, but to be honest, I do think with the government, the amount of legislation and the LAs are so overwhelmed already, they'll take a very long time anyway. And if something does come in place, yeah, I just hope for maybe less for myself but more for other people that for example, people with special needs children and children that may struggle with like scrutiny, especially, because I don't want anybody coming in seeing every single thing I do, but I don't mind writing a report because I'm used to that. But I think for other families it's not fair for them that if they don't, they might not want us somebody walking into the house and viewing what they're doing. We all have our right to our own privacy, so yeah, I am against a schools bill, but I'm trying to remain positive that home ed is still thriving and it's growing all the time, so you've got to hold on to the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

One of the things that really yeah, definitely one of the things that really concerned us when we were looking into it was they're not actually consulting home ed groups or home ed individuals in terms of what it is, is they're just they're making up their own narrative about home education, yeah. Yeah, and I just think if you're gonna isolate or not or come down on a group of people, uh home ed home educating families, it's really important you actually speak to them first.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

You know, really do an in-depth study if you need to, really get a very consultative approach with home families, exactly for long-term, a long-term research.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

I met with an MP from Bromsgrove. We had a meeting with him, this was back in summertime as a group of us, and I got to share a little bit about what I do in my classes and how my daughter is thriving. And even though I'm a teacher, because he was a bit surprised that I think as a teacher, oh, why would you home educate for your teacher? And he was positive about it. My local MP for Shropshire sent me a letter to say he's in support, like he's against the school's bill as well, which is really good. But yeah, I think we all know like that it's not about child protection at all. It's not because if it was, then there's so many different ways of going about that, and it's not uh targeting home educating families, it's not going to prevent things, awful things happening to children, which is you know what they're I think uh the foundation of it, that's what they're saying. So it is a shame they're not being transparent, absolutely. But I think the best we can do is exactly what you do now, which is raising awareness that children are absolutely thriving while doing this, home educating, and I just wish every family could do it because I just think it is so beneficial for the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah, 100%. I totally agree with that.

Never Started School

SPEAKER_03 49:04

What I really love that you've done is you never put your daughter into the education system at all. You've started home educating from day one. Does she sometimes think how is it like to be in a classroom or a school? Does she ever wonder?

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Uh my daughter is she actually says, I'm never going to school. So she's had that in her head for a while. She does sometimes ask questions of her friend, her friends or my niece, her cousin, about what do they do there. But she I think she knows she's on to a good thing, that girl. She knows that she's got such an evil husband. She's got the best life ever. She's going for walks in the garage and she comes home and she's cooking and baking, and it's she's just got it brilliant, and we don't have to worry about bullying and those kind of things, and she socializes. So I think she knows she can't she's on to a good thing. I think that obviously her personality is that way, and there will be many other children that I do ask and think, Am I missing out on something? But yeah, I think again, I have friends that their child then did express that they really did want to go to school and they did let them go, but again, that's it's totally up to your own family. Yeah, best for them.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Exactly.

Best Classrooms No Walls

SPEAKER_03 50:18

So if you could leave families with one thought about learning outside the classroom, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 50:24

I got some t-shirts printed, and the logo is not every classroom has four walls, and I love that because it's just explaining that I would say probably like the best classrooms don't have four walls, that it's about just you can learn so much outside of school. It doesn't have to necessarily be like out in nature. I I love that, and I think that's where children do thrive, but it's just like you say, going to the shops and getting them to buy stuff from a supermarket, going to all different places and just being a child and experiencing the world around them. That is the best learning.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Yeah, anything and everything that we do in our lives is going to it's gonna be a learning, well, it's gonna be teaching them how to do the same thing, and that's real life. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

I took them to a business meeting, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

This is so cool that they're crazy.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

I think to myself now, like, where can't I take Grace? It's pretty much so many, or what can she can get involved in everything? Like things around the house and chores. We're just giving her like a real sense of responsibility as a family that she's a family team player, and that so chores sound awful, but actually it's it's a job to help us be a family, and again, you won't get that at school, so it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

It's a really good message. I'll stop talking otherwise, I just go on forever about it.

SPEAKER_03 51:47

But no, it's fine, yeah. We could carry on forever as well.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Yeah, and I think that you just the fact that the pet you as a parent, you are, I believe, the best teacher for your child. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yeah, a lot of people we speak to they say that.

Respect and Safety in Schools

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah, and teaching is a very noble profession, in my view. And I know teachers who are in the city who are working in schools already, they've got a really tough job. And we've always, for what it's worth, we've always had a positive experience with our son's teachers. It's just when it goes to headmistress or headmaster and above when it gets to management, that's where things for us anyway fell apart. You know that teachers have got a real tough gig. You know, this it's not easy, and especially with some of the horrific things you've mentioned, having chairs thrown at you and all sorts of other things being said and done, it's not the easiest profession. But I think I come from a background like my family's from India, and education is like a very important aspect of life in India, and teachers are revered as much as parents are, you know, they're like up there with parents, you have to respect them, you have to, if the teacher says so, and you that's that's the law basically.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

It's not the same over here, it's not the same anymore.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Yeah, I mean, it used to be when I was in school. Even when I was in primary school, there was always this ad admiration for the teacher, this enjoyment with our teachers from our remember. But when they told us off and told us sit down, be quiet, we respected that. You would do exactly what it would do it, you would have almost like a fear, not in a bad way, but you have this respect.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Respect, but I think that's been eroded, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

And I think that respect has been eroded.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to hear your perspective, like the cultural side of things. So, yeah, I agree that it's it that that's part of the behavioural problems in schools where it becomes crowd control, and again, not every school's gonna be like that, but if there's a potential that, why would you want to send your little you know, your little being that you love so much into that environment where there are children that have just never been taught boundaries at all, so no, you don't know who they're being around and who they're with every day. That's a whole nother like side of it, but it's it's it's a huge part as well, where our job is to protect our kids, isn't it, as well, as much as we can. And there's a lot of people say they can't afford homeschooling all of that as well, which again is another part of it. But I do think for us as a family, we've sacrificed lots of things in order to do it because we believe it is the best for Grace, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Yeah, no, we have to have another podcast about like finances, definitely everybody, everybody we've had a podcast with, we're like, yeah, we have to go back for second and third because we just don't have enough time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

I was

Life Lessons in the Car

SPEAKER_00 54:35

telling my son the other day for every mile my car mileage on my car goes up, I'm keeping a tab on it for you. And he's like, What's my conversation?

SPEAKER_03 54:44

So, yeah, yeah, you do end up driving a lot, don't you? That is true. And these conversations actually happen in the car.

unknown 54:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Oh god, yeah. He's but why are there potholes? Why is there uh holes on the road? He was saying to me. And I said, and that's a conversation which ended up telling me telling about how the economy's broken, how the council's had no funding. Wow, and literally a whole conversation around that. Obviously, it went hopping.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Just probably, yeah, it's random.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Okay, so is it the because the country has got no money? I said, Yeah, that's essentially what it is.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

It's so funny because we had we have the exact same conversation because in Shropshire we have the worst polls ever. It is literally like driving through my ho, and Grace is Grace often says, Oh, there's a pot of mum or she's like pointing that out, like, yes. So, yeah, it's again, it's that just nice thing of being able to just to get into life with them, like treat you almost treat them as like they are adults when they have that conversation of it, they're not because you that you're still the parent, which I believe is important, yeah. But but you can have those lovely bonds and connections through conversation, which is again you would miss a lot of that at school, you really would.

Final Takeaways and Links

SPEAKER_00 55:53

So I just want to say, Sarah, thank you so much for this conversation, and it's felt really grounding speaking to you and understanding exactly how what you've set up with Nature Sparks and how it's helping people and kids in general. And we know it's going to land deeply for a lot of parents who are listening and quietly nodding along. And hopefully, any parents listening, if they're thinking about home education or if they've got any doubts or any kind of misconceptions, hopefully a lot of that is cleared up. And what we hope people take from this episode is that learning beyond the classroom, it doesn't have to be big, dramatic, or anything like that. You can start gently, you can start slowly, and you can start with someone like yourself who people can easily trust. If you'd like to learn more about Sarah, about her work, we'll make sure that all of her details are linked below. Sarah's approach to education, nature, and childhood is deeply thoughtful, and we're so grateful she shared her experience and perspective with us today.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

If today's conversation has resonated with you and you're feeling curious about what learning can look like outside rigid structures, we've created a project-based learning guide that walks through this in a really practical, accessible way. It's designed to help families move from overwhelm into clarity with ideas you can actually use in real life. We're also in the process of building a community space for families who are navigating home education and alternative learning paths together, a place for shared experiences, reassurance, and connection. Thank you so much for listening. This is the Sayed Way. We'll see you in the next episode where we continue the conversation by speaking with others in the space and sharing a range of voices and lived experiences.