Brothers and Sisters Home from Asia

Paula and Larry are home from Japan, Vietnam and Thailand trip. Had a nice visit with adopted Palestinian daughter Summer, in Washington State. Reviewed slides on reality vs. Mormon fantasy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello, Paula.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Are you really back from Thailand or not?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

It's so weird because we came back in Utah's under a heat advisory. Like it's hot. 102 at 9 o'clock at night, kind of hot. No rain in sight. And they're going to put some big data center in here. No problem. Nothing to see here.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

102 at night?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Well, it was a couple weeks ago, yeah. Holy moly. I know. It's bad for Utah. Tonight heat is the worst. Well, you count in Utah on it can be hot during the day, but in the evening, you know, you kind of can't. Yeah. Yeah, cooling off a little.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

It's high desert.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

But no.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

So yeah, we went and spent five days of summer up in um Glacier.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

How was that?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

It was really fun.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Montana, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

No, Washington State.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Washington State, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

She lives right up against this beautiful river. You can hear it from her back porch. You know, it's through the woods, these big huge woods. It's just gorgeous where she's at.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Old growth.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Old growth. Beautiful old Washington, you know. Really pretty. So we enjoyed that a lot. And we had a rental car, so I got to learn how to drive again.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Oh. Oh, and it ventured to Cuban.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Oh, well, I don't have a car typically because you know we only have a dollar car. So I don't get very many opportunities. Sometimes Larry's like, let me go with you. I'm like, no. I told him actually on this last trip, because the last time we traveled that for that 10 months went all the way around the world, we did all these adventures. All right. So every other day we were doing something together with other people.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And then we this time we slowed it down to one or two times a week. And um I told him at one point, I said, I feel like you're I'm your junior companion. The only time I can be out of your sight is when I'm in the bathroom. And even then, sometimes you walk in on me. So I can give me some space, man. That's it's an adjustment. It's it's interesting what you adjust to when you travel as much as we do. But we enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

And we're already what hotel room's not real big necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Well, we stay at some pretty fancy places. Can I tell you about the last place we stayed?

SPEAKER_02 2:34

The Mandarin.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

The Mandarin Oriental. It's one of two six-star um hotels.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Okay, you you know six star is a marketing.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

I don't care. They deserved every freaking star.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

That's a marketing term. That's not a real rating stand.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I I laid down. They first of all they bring you a special mat to lay on a on a lounger, and there's enough loungers for everyone. It's not like this like battle out to the and you can stay, you know, um as long as you want. They bring you towels, they bring you Rosella tea, they bring you, yeah, and then they bring you shots of frozen things like coconut juice and other kinds of juices, little shots during the day that are icy. And it, I mean, it was it, and they had a three-piece, you know, in-the-sito orchestra in the lobby. It was just everything about it was immaculate.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

You got Thai hospitality.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

We I I don't know what kind of hospitality it was. Because I've always thought if I were rich, I would never really spend it. Now I was and then I was thinking I was really rich. Maybe I would live here, which would be probably a bad thing. So it's probably why I'm not rich.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I could do a lot of good with some money.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, you could.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I do a lot of good with not having a lot of money, you know. We're thoughtful about things. Then we went um to the market there and got all of the grandkids uh, because last year we got them all elephant pants, and this year we got them all elephant shorts. Oh, okay. So yeah, um, and so we we we try along the way to be thoughtful, and I believe that the problem with things like relief society at church is that it's an assignment, and you you do it because you're assigned it. It's not has nothing to do with compassion or you see a need and you step in and and do something. So I think that when people are placed in my path, it's my duty as a citizen of the universe to pay attention to that that person was put in my path for some reason, and I'm gonna, you know, interact or do what I need to do to help them.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

You said duty, haha.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

That's funny. Yeah. So yeah, we're back for a month. Um, Larry's gonna work for the month, so am I, and then we'll head off to Spain is next.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

We're gonna go to Spain, Montenegro, Albania, and then we're gonna switch over to the Scandinavian side where I will not stand out anymore. And um do Copenhagen and Norway for Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Katie's gonna be jealous.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

But we're determined to see the Northern Lights.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah. It just it's just too cool looking to not try and, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

So has Lori been playing with Claude at all?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

No, because we really haven't had time. When we were at Summers, he is the fix-it man at Summers, so her washing machine was broken, so he tried to fix that. I think she's burned her motor out, so she's got to get so he wasn't able to fix it. But then she bought this fancy telescope and he put it all together for her, and they um got to look at the stars. Like, we do we do motherly, fatherly things with her. I cook, you know what I mean? Like we spend our time kind of being being together, doing the things that we love together. It it just reminds me of the old times. And it she said, and this will probably make me cry. She said, You guys are the only ones that come and see me.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And everyone needs that connection. Everyone needs to know someone's in your corner, you know?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yeah. You're worth you saw a sign today. It says, You don't have to be a Jew to protect a Jew. And I thought, just because you're a Jew doesn't mean you have to kill a Palestinian.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

That's right. That's the part B of that. She wants to be on the podcast, so I talked to her about it. Okay. Um, she's just in the field right now. It it uh it's all she it's all that that's on her social media feed sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

She's just you know it's a horrible thing going on.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

It's and it feels hopeless to the people that are in it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Well, that's the purpose.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

That's that's the design of the action is to take away your hope. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah. So um I prov I did some slides I was gonna talk about today, if you don't mind. I hope I can get through it and make some sense. Um, the reason that I wanted to talk to talk about this particular subject is because I think as um being raised Mormon, our reality was Mormonism, and some of it was so far out there that we didn't like an angel and golden plates, and you know, the the the magic of the priesthood and yearment them anointed with oil, yeah, and discernment, you know, your bishop able bailed to tell if you're telling a lie or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Yes, so we got some pushback about Marcia's husband resurrecting her from the dead.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Resurrection Marcia so special. It really, I mean, it's hilarious. Okay, but I gotta find it and then share it. So I'm not sure. Share. Let me see if I can sharing is not turned on.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Oh, I probably need to do that. Okay, I will allow.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Okay, I have allowed. Can you see my screen? Not yet.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

I can see you.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

You can.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

I can see you.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

My house smells good. I wish you could be here. I wish it was smell of vision.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Hey Katie.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Hey Katie. Good to see you. Well, I can't see you because I'm looking at something, uh, I'm looking at a PowerPoint presentation. But I was just telling Thane that guess where we're gonna spend Christmas this year. Where? You're gonna die. Uh where? Norway. Oh man. I know. We're determined to see the northern lights. We tried once before in Iceland and didn't really have uh like we barely saw one tiny little um green flash of a light, and that was it.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah. The only problem is um if you go way far north, it's gonna be dark the whole time you're there.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

If you're in the south part of Norway, you'll get a couple hours of sunlight. So you don't see much while you're there.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Um, well, we're really there for the night light. Like that's the the reason. And I have no idea where he booked our tickets, but I'll tell him that um when he gets home.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Well, I would imagine you're going to a place called Lofeton. That's where I would go to see the Northern Lights, because it's just an amazingly beautiful little town. Oh. Right on the ocean and surrounded by mountains.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

And I'm, you know, I I am so lucky that I get to see so much of the world and that I've already gotten to see so much of the world. I just think it helps my worldview so much because I I have had such positive experiences everywhere we've gone.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Good, good.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Well, we miss you. Oh, I miss you too. We're trying to plan a trip so that we can be there for an entire month. Um, but it probably won't be. Don't tell mom, because I don't want her to get her hopes up, but it's probably gonna be April. And I told Larry, even if you're not here for the entire month, I get to be here for the entire month. I want to live with her and see how she's doing and you know, drive with her and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

She's getting a little loose.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, she's been crashing the MA meetings.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

True story. Is she staying out of the linen closet? That's the big question.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

She showed up once to bring me uh chocolate milk and chocolate covered raisins. And this last time she showed up for me to take her blood pressure.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

That's pretty funny. Yeah. Uh and sad too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Okay. Are you able to she does a boy who there's a boy who's interested in her that I keep teasing her about. Really? There's an old man chasing after her at church.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Because she doesn't want to, but uh well, I talked to her, uh, we texted back and forth, and I asked her, I said, how is it now that you're alone? You know, and she said that Dallin's been a real friend, but that she doesn't have a friend at church. She doesn't have a friend outside of church, like besides Judy, who, you know, is limited in what she'll do at their and and she says she's lonely. I'm I'm hoping having maybe some great grandkids around will help with that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah, I'm trying to get her hooked up with our friend Cassandra.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah. She needs a friend. Yeah. It's it's sad to me. Yeah. Okay, so did you give me sharing rights?

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yes, I gave you sharing rights. Why don't you share?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Okay, I'll try. Okay. So while it's uploading, I I learned something that I thought was very interesting, and I think it explains a lot of about prejudice, because when you travel through Asia, Southeast Asia, you know, like I can't really tell a difference between a Korean person and a Vietnamese person. You know, they all kind of um to my American eye look the same.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Okay, so you uh okay, I sent it to you.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

And what I learned is what we actually see with our eye, with our eyeball, is only about 20% of the picture. So, you know, like this much of the picture is what we're really picking up with, all of the rest of it is filled in with our brain. So if your brain wants to fill it in in a certain way, it's going to fill it in in a certain way. And it fills it in because it has memories of what, for instance, your furniture looks like. So when you walk in your house, you don't necessarily recognize, oh, hey, that's my couch. You your brain just registers that's your couch and you you think you're seeing it in reality. So when we sent the kids the well, we, when Larry sent the kids the letter explaining that he was leaving the church and for the reasons why, yeah, he got two responses that I just thought were outside the realm of reality. And I I wanted to kind of talk about that. Did you get did you get it?

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah, I'm not seeing um You sent it to me on the Google Drive, didn't you? So I just want to need to open it with Google. I want to open it with PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

I don't know the way to send it to you.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

And let's go to Side.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Okay. So growing up, the imagery that we had in the church, right, was of Joseph Smith being this handsome, gorgeous man, strong and sturdy, and you know, unwilling to drink alcohol when he had a leg operation. And, you know, the the we there's a lot of heroics around the way he looked. So then show the next slide. When this next slide came out, and the reality of what the dude really looked like, they said that they had just barely found this image of him, which I find kind of unrealistic since we're talking about reality anyway. But this is not the same imagery as we grew up with in the church. This is not the same person to be loved and adored. I don't even understand how this guy got one wife, much less, you know, as many as he did.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

I think he's attractive.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah, you do. He looks like look at his eyes.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

He looks like a kind of shifty eyes, but you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I was with someone when they opened this, because it came out on KSL for the first time, and I remember her face just dropped, and she said, that's not at all what I thought he looked like. And I think that that's on purpose because we want our reality to be as beautiful and curated as possible. And the church, you know, certainly has taken advantage of that. So then the next slide shows, I believe, uh how a certain person in our government sees themselves, right? He sees himself as the savior of the world. He's got the the light of the Holy Ghost in his hand, he's got the big rockets going by his head, and he's being Jesus saving people. And if you show the next slide, this is really what this man looks like. Yeah. This is the danger of AI, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

We're gonna be we're gonna be voting in people that we think are fit and are not wearing diapers. And the but the reality is that they are just like everyone else, they're people and they're older and they're aging and they've got older aging problems. And they don't look good without their hair and makeup. That was really interesting when I lived in LA to see people once they had their glam, before their glam and after their their glam, you know, their hair and makeup and all that stuff done, they would they look totally different. You they you'd see pictures of girls on the beach without their makeup, and you're like, and they have cellulite, you know, on their rear ends because they're not lit perfectly, and you're like, this is not reality. But in fact, it is what reality is. It's just we make the images around us look as more beautiful as we can to be as pleasing as we can.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

It's happening.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

It was yeah, yeah, it is, and that was part of my that's what I did for a living. I mean, I made things look better than they did. I did I'd never tried to be purposely deceptive, but you know, it is what a marketing person does. It puts the best foot forward, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

So the next slide is what did Jesus really look like? You know, every home in in every chapel has a beautiful white, blue-eyed, blonde-haired, tall, gorgeous-looking Jesus when he was really an olive-skinned brown man. He was not this man that you and I know. The difference is striking. And I think I think when we think about immigration and we're like kicking out all the brown and and dark-skinned people out of America, we would be kicking out Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Because this is what he looks like, not this. Okay, if you go to the next slide, this is another thing that was really uh reality-shaking for me when I lost my faith. Because growing up, this is what we thought the whole process of producing the Book of Mormon, translating it, you know, came on gold plates, it had these gold, these rings that went through the plates, it had a Urim and Thummim, it had this sort of laban, and it was all this kind of cool, kind of almost magical thinking, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Oh, totally magical.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

So then if you go to the next couple slides, I think, you see the church kind of backpedal, and I think Russell M. Nelson almost put his head exactly in the hat. I'm sure the PR people were just back there in the breath. Yeah, there it is. That's really how the translation he put a rock in the bottom of the hat, would put would put his head in the hat, and I guess read as Brad Wilcox, the next slide, tells BYU sue. It's just like having a cell phone. Well, that's the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever, ever, ever heard. And just because you hear it at BYU does not make it any less bullshit. That's bullshit. It was either, you know, the way that they they the way that they described it as ancient instruments that really came from a deity, or it was it was no cell phone at the bottom of Joseph's top hat.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Then the next slide. So we got a series of letters from the kids. Some were really nice, actually, and some were really awful, actually. And one son in particular used two really fantastical examples of why we shouldn't leave the church and what had happened to Larry. And the first one was when he said that uh that that uh Larry had to be exercised, like Gandalf exercised. I don't I don't remember the movie The Lord of the Rings, but the guy that was possessed, and Gandalf comes in and he's wearing a gray coat and he takes off his gray coat and then he's in a white coat, which is very you know religiously symbolic, and he has a white staff, and he uses magic to take out the evil spirit out of this man. And I think sometimes people think that that's the priesthood, that it's really and truly like this magical thing. You use the oil, and the oil somehow is magic and it's blessed, and it's it's absolute magical thinking and not at all in reality. And if Larry were possessed, it why is it that he's only now possessed because he's left the church, right? Because he has decided to do the most Mormon thing that we know how to do, and that is to pack up all of our earthly possessions and head out to parts unknown and and discover what what else is out there in the world. And that's exactly what the Mormons did. Carolyn Pearson's the one that said it, and it makes all kinds of sense to me that what Larry and I are doing is more Mormon than staying at home in your bark lounger or your quilting room and watching TV all day. So the the next go ahead and show the next one. I think I put um yeah, see, there's there he is. So I guess that's Larry in the chair.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, they wrote here and yeah the horseman being unpossessed.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I I d you do you have any memory of dad going and doing an exorcism in Galveston?

SPEAKER_02 24:52

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

I do. We went in the car and he went up to this woman's apartment, and they were gonna, you know, exercise a demon out of her soul or something. I was little, we were little, but it was in Galveston, and that was the first and only time I realized that people thought that evil could like embody you somehow, come inside you. I do not believe one ounce that an evil spirit can come inside and take over whatever it is that your soul is. I think you can let bad things happen, but I don't think that I don't think Satan's chasing me around because I'm such a great catch, trying to get me and tempt me into doing evil things all the time. I just don't think that that power is out there. And to have your kids say, you need to be depossessed of something because now you're evil, I just think is uh over the top. Yeah, it was way, way, way over the top. Then the second example that he gave us was what we were doing is like playing at the neighborhood playground, where we were spending the pennies that we have to stay away from the family and all the family activities and all the chances that we had to interact with the family to go to the lowest kingdom of heaven, which is the city park.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

They don't let you interact with them.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

No, ever. And and then then, or we could choose to live here, I guess, as we have been, and kind of in a half-truth, trying to fit in, trying to be pleasing. And that would be the level of this of the kingdoms of Lagoon, which is you know this little local regional park. But his idea of the celestial kingdom is Disneyland and a five-star hotel. Well, all these examples are absolutely un they're not about reality. They're not about life, they're not about what happens in life, they're not about what happens in a family. And I just thought it was really interesting that the advice that we got from him, he's the only one that's the bishop here, were all based on things that were completely unrealistic, especially due to the way that Larry's been treated. So it when we were in Thailand, we went and washed some um elephants, some real live elephants in the river. So you take a big scrub brush, it's how I got Lyme's disease. Take a big scrub brush and you pour water over them and you and you brush them because they get fleas and ticks and and things on them that make them itch. Or you could go on the jungle ride. Now, you tell me which of those two is more realistic in real life. Like the jungle ride, how many times can you ride that and be in awe of that ride? How many times can you go to Disneyland and ride the teacups and be in awe of that ride? But if you go out and see the world, if you go out and see the different places in the world, you can be in awe all the time.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

An animatronic elephant versus an actual elephant.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yes. Yes. And you know, I mean, I appreciate the jokes that they tell on the boat, the poor guy that has to tell them, the all the puns that they make, but it's not reality and it's not real people, and it's not interaction, and it's not it's not you're not gonna get Lyme disease from a riding Disney. What?

SPEAKER_02 28:22

You're not gonna get Lyme's disease from a writing Disney.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, yeah, but you might get COVID from somebody in the line. You never know where you're getting when you're gonna get it or how it's gonna come.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Oh, by the way, my it look my I'm saying the Lyme's disease was an extra bonus that you'd be missing out on if all you got was this.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

The the opportunity to take, you know, weeks worth of antibiotics. Those antibiotics were killer on my stomach.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

They tore you up a bit. What? I bet you they tore you up.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

They tore me up. That and I was really nervous about coming home because I want things to go well with the kids. I want us to come to a place where we can, you know, be convivial with one another.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

I I think you're closer now than you than you have been for a long time. No, I do, I do. I think Do you put yeah, you laid the cards out. They're having their initial reaction, but I think you have a much better chance than you did before. Because before they they they had all the control.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

And you just took some control back.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, well, that we definitely took some power back. And and we were willing to live our lives where we're happy versus living with them being unhappy.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

And and that's the power move. You know, it's not that we don't want to be with them, it's not that we don't want to see the grandkids. We've been begging for years for that opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yeah, well, you just shook the curve.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah. Okay, I don't remember what the next slide is. Oh, see, this is uh the I guess the the title got cut off, but travel immerses you with reality. You do things like you touch a real elephant, you go down a river on a bamboo raft, or you ride in a coconut boat. You know, there's things that you do that are real that are way more exciting than the jungle cruise. Sorry, don't sue me, Disney, uh, because they're actual experiences. On that um river rafting boat right there, all kinds of uh snakes up in the trees. Oh, yeah. We got to get off and swim in that river. It was it was just really, really fun. And you're outside and in nature, in real nature, not something that's plastic or you know made out of plaster to look like nature.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

And I think I have a few more slides of just some of the of the of the things. That first one is Ufs. It looks like Japan. Yeah, that's in Tokyo. That's the world's busiest intersection.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yeah, that yeah. Oh, I forget what it's called.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Um yeah, you're yeah, you're close to it. Yeah, Shigui station or something, yeah. We we actually rode the train there too. That was really fun. I love riding the train shroom with real people. Oh that that first picture of me is where they filmed the beach with uh Leonardo DiCaprio.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

That's Highland.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

It is now a shark sanctuary, so you're not allowed to get in past your ankles, or you get like a 500,000 bot fine. But you see things like, you know, real toucans. You don't have to go to the tiki show and buy a dole whip to interact with some some real tiki tiki tiki fun. Go ahead and go to the next one. Okay, well, I put a lot of vacation photos in here, but but uh look at that. Go go back, go back one. Just look at how happy Larry looks. He looks happy, he's got light in his eyes, he's got a big smile on his face. It's it's that we're out of the environment where we feel where we feel like we have control in in um in order to make our own happiness. And then you can go to the next one. That one with us in the swimming pool, that was on the 40th floor, and the bottom of the pool was plexi glass.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Oh, that's scary. Freaky that's gorgeous wood. Uh and beautiful parking.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

There's a there's a little waterfall that we were swimming in, and then that bridge right there. The per the picture on the very top left is um it was called the Buddha's hands bridge, and it's in Denang and an amusement park. It you see it all over TikTok. It was really cool. And then I'm standing um in that middle picture. That's an old gatehouse in Hanoi, which is the lantern city, which was absolutely beautiful. Oh my gosh, if you want to go someplace gorgeous, Hanoi. Yeah, we went to there's a lot of kissing pictures, and then you get to see stuff like this stuff on the far right. Like people are eating this for dinner, insects, yeah. That's there's grubs and crickets and scorpions.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

It's supposed to not taste like anything.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

I don't know. I talked to a cab driver, and he said his mother's a the farmer, and he said he was always so excited when she came home with the triantula because it was meat. Oh, would you rather spend your golden years in reality, like Larry and I are?

SPEAKER_02 33:38

This looks very white and delightsome.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Or would you rather spend your golden years sitting now? It's only two hours, but through two hours of church doing your calling, going to the temple, doing work for the dead. That I have no idea why we have if God is is all never quite being never quite being good enough.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

You're always a bit of a disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yep. So one time um one of Larry's co-workers from the old job called and said, Hey, what are you doing? He's like, Oh, we're in Thailand. And and Larry said, What are you doing? He goes, We're doing a temple mission. And the guy, the guy on the other end of the phone goes, I wish I was doing what you guys were doing. And then he sent several uh text messages after that saying, I don't I didn't really mean it. I didn't I I love working at the temple, but the temple is so repetitive, it's so it's the exact same ceremony over and over and over again. And I don't see how people who work in the temple, especially full-time, don't just develop dementia.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Oh, they do.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

I wonder statistically, Dane, how can we find out?

SPEAKER_02 34:51

I'm sure it accelerates it. Boredom and lack of real connection accelerates dementia.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

But what I didn't realize is what a power struggle there was inside the temple. Like the because some of those bitches want it done exactly right. And some of them just want you to have a good experience, you know? It's like Bishop Roulette.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah. So your hair looks fantastic, Paula.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

You think that's the sheep's glasna?

SPEAKER_00 35:19

I do.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Okay. I started taking it.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Did you? How does it make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Well, you said you liked my hair when we first started.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

I know, I do like your hair. Yeah. I I'm tan, I'm uh healthy as far as you know, like we're eating really healthy, even though uh the the letter to the kids said we're we left the United States so that we could live on pennies a day. Yeah, it's not pennies a day, but it's affordable because let me tell you, we just went to the grocery store yesterday and I about had a heart attack. They wanted eight dollars for this little bag of of um cherries. I told them to put them back, and then I got three, three little peaches. They wanted six dollars. I said, put them back. Like I'm I'm I refuse. I am not paying these prices. Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. And and and then today I went to CVS because I oh my gosh, I saved so much money because I wanted to buy some Korean skincare and I needed some new makeup. So my last day in Seoul, I went and I worked with this girl and I got everything I wanted, and then I left it at Summers. So I have to have an eyeliner. So I go to CVS to buy an eyeliner, and everything is under lock and key, and there is one person working in the store. There's not a cashier, you have to cash yourself out now, and to see anything, you have to have them come over and unlock it with the key. Like, I'm gonna steal some $4 eyeliner. It just well, okay, it's inflation. It was way more than $4. It was like $8.99 for an eyeliner. Uh but you know, I it it just the the comparison is so strong to me that we have been lied to, and that the reality is that the world is not a scary place, that the world is way more affordable, and that the world in general, we're the only first world country that doesn't have health care. You know, that that's a reality, and it's a reality that people are starting to understand they're they're making cuts in it, and it's gonna really affect people.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Oh, yeah. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

It's extremely sad. So that's why I wanted to talk about reality because uh you can look at what Larry and I are doing, and you can say we're being selfish or we're not giving the grandkids the time and attention, or whatever excuse you want because you're not getting your way. But in reality, what we're doing is we're enjoying the world, we're enjoying one another, and we're really broadening our horizons and helping other people along the way. I wouldn't retire any other way right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

No. I'm a bit jealous of you.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

You'll get there. You uh my the reason that I'm there now is because there you I married somebody who's older. And I was trying to explain this to somebody because people say, Oh, you're a gold digger because you married somebody that's older. And I'm like, how am I the gold digger? If he gets sick, I lose the house. Like, I I I don't get social security until I'm 65. Like, there's no upside for me, and then I get to take care of him if he's the one that ages first. Now it very well could be that he takes care of me, um, especially knowing Larry. But it's it's not uh unless the guy is rich, if you marry an older man, you're signing up for some additional work.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, you you you um um made more than he did working part and you didn't have to pay alimony or child support. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Well, I did have that 65-pound basset hound I have to had to keep in kibble, but all right, all right. Other than that, I was you know, I I was pretty cash free. I mean not free. My cash was free, you know, like I had money. Yeah, I could do what I wanted, whenever I wanted. And and I I gave that up with marriage. I also gained a lot with marriage. And now Larry makes more than me because I took my social security early um and he took his late. So he makes more than I do, but I don't I don't care. We're spending the time that we have together doing real things.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

So he he had a conversation yesterday with his oldest sister. It was her birthday, and bless her heart, and I said this to Larry. I said, if every Mormon could be as kind as Catherine, I could, you know, I could stay, I could stomach to go and and fellowship there. Because she was very kind, and she's the only one that asked him any questions about the reasons for him leaving the church. No one else has asked what he he explained three different things that were hard for him with the church, but nobody asked him how he came to those conclusions, or it's it's just such a taboo subject, you know. Even with between friends, it doesn't even have to be family, it's just taboo to talk about you changing your mind or changing your reality. Yeah, it's very scary to people when you do that.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah. I've been I've been really enjoying watching the uh XJW TikToks on my for you feed.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Uh well I saw this thing where who had who has it worst and the the JWs or Tokyo witnesses.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

They have it worse, and we did.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yeah, because you you're not just shunned, you're dead to them.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah, and we can we can um go to college and we can deliver.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah, we can have an education where they can't be educated. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yeah, no, they definitely had it worse.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Um, I read a lot of that book that you recommended, so I listened to hours and hours of it. I'm not through it yet.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Uncultured or the culting of America?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

The culting of America.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yeah, that's a more academic one. The other one is more her personal story.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Yeah, but it's really interesting. It's interesting how she talks about Mormons a lot.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah. Well, she used to look up to Mormons.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Oh, okay. Well, she was in the military. That's right, because in the book she says she was in the military and they recruited from the the Mormon church because Mormons know how to toe the line.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah, well, and when she was in Children of God, she thought that was the good cult.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Being sex trafficked as a child.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like those they have it so good over there. Those Mormons, I wish I could be like them.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

I could be, I could go to grow, I could go to young women's dances.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Yeah, exactly. We did have a good in a lot of ways. I mean, for being in a cult, you we we were made to feel less than, but in a lot of ways, they went easy on us in a lot of ways, too.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Well, and you and I were privileged because we dad was bishop, yeah, we were white, we lived in a not so white neighborhood, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

And and we didn't live right up the butt crack of Mormon Central.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

We didn't live in the Utah County bubble, and when you say that here, people get pissed. It's not a bubble, it's not a bubble, it's a bubble.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

It is so insular. Oh my goodness. Yes. I remember being in the Ottery Parish door and general conference came on, and the guy comes over and turns up the volume for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

That's funny. Yeah, that's funny. So I I think overall Larry's feeling really good that it that finally, you know, the the process of leaving the church is a long one. It's not one that you uh you take lightly, it's a very serious decision. And I think that he's finally, you know, he's spoken to all of his brothers and sisters who have been kind about it. Um and passed the time.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

He made his decision, he took his power.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah, he did. And and I think that's great.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

And we'll see what happens from here. You know, we can always go get. Euroban and just I found out you can only spend 90 days in the Shenju Shen Jen countries.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

So my dreams of Europe and living in Italy forever might be over. There might be something you can do, but plus it's more expensive. But um we're that's our next our next stop is gonna be trying to figure out if it's if if it would be Europe. But I don't know, a lot of it depends on what happens in November.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

So we're just trying to, you know, toe the line until then.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Toe the line and survive.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Well, how are you and Katie?

SPEAKER_02 44:46

I think how are we doing, Katie?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Last time I talked to you, you said you were off one of your depression medicines.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Is that like Yeah, I'm I'm I'm taking a low dose of another one. And I'm done okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

I'm having some uh You need to go to Disneyland.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Yeah, I know. I know. So I I have my pre-op testing for my surgery Wednesday, and then yeah, and then a week from Wednesday the surgery.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Okay, and why they find out about your heart?

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Um the treadmill nuclear test was great. I don't have the results of the echo back yet.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Okay, but you're taking care of yourself. I just can't get sick this month. Yeah, I have one month, and then when I um I turn 64 in September, and then I have one year, and we'll be out of the country for most of that time before I turn 65. So I'm hanging in there and I'm watching every step. I'm not gonna trip.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

No more broken femurs for me.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Oh, please, please, please, please.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yeah, yeah, I figured out how much it was for me to have health care here. It was $1,800 a month. With a huge deductible, yeah, and and a copay, a deductible and a copay. So it just it really makes a lot of financial sense for us to not be here. I wish that the kids wouldn't take it so personally because it isn't just personal.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

It is no, I wish they would take it more personal.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

That's true, and then maybe they would make some changes and they have not, they have not been good kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Not decent people at all. Hannah called me up the other day. Um, she's inpatient in Bloomington, and she's doing this weird disjointed story. And can I help her something get out of the mental place that she's been in since the 20th? And I says, you know, Hannah, you you don't treat me like a human being. You don't talk to me, and now you're calling me up to help for me to help you. And then all of a sudden she started talking real clear after that. So I'm sorry to bother you and hung up.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

I'm I'm I'm not here to rescue her, and I'm not here to be nice to people that treat me like shit. Even if you are my own daughter, you treat me like shit and you treat me like shit. And I I don't owe you anything.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

I've done my part, I raised fun. Got raised to adulthood, yeah. You know, and you can't just as an adult treat me like shit and expect me to come rescue you because you're my daughter. It doesn't work like it doesn't work like that.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

The boundary I set with Larry is that I'm not doing family things again. I'm not I I'll go to I'll go to a few of the kids' houses if they invite us because they're friendly toward me. Yeah. But I am not going to some big Thanksgiving dinner where I get made feel guilty because one of the wives had to make mashed potatoes. I mean, when I used to feed the entire bunch week after, you know, holiday after holiday. I I just I'm I'm not I'm not appreciated, I'm not wanted, I make people uncomfortable, and I'm I you don't need that. You know, I don't need it.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

You don't need it.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

So it's that felt really empowering. I makes Larry sad because he wants me there.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

But it's worse for me to be there and then it to become a your your mental health matters. Yeah. Well, and I smart off and stay not smart off, but I say the truth when I walk, you know, like I'll I call them out on stuff, and they don't like that. And then he gets the repercussions of it in email.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

So I'm just gonna I'm I'm I'm steering clear.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah, sounds that's perfectly acceptable in my book.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

And then I get some personal time and I can be the senior companion.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

And decide what I want to do by myself.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

That's that's my report. We're back in Utah. It's hotter than we're driving right now the most beautiful Volvo. It's a SUV. Holy if I had $30,000, I'd buy one. Um, because the dollar car is at the shop, it won't start. Happen to put a new starter thing in it.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

But Larry starts tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

We go to Thailand November, we leave November the 19th, we come back December 17th.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

You're gone a long time.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Oh, you're gonna I told them we're gonna get over it. I'm I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

You're gonna love it. So I have some suggestions for you guys for the 7-Elevens when you go. So before you go, let me give you ham and cheese. Those ham and cheese sandwiches are so good and they're so cheap. They have really good iced coffee. They also have stuff like this powder that you can put on, and it keeps you from um perspiring. Like if you don't want to perspire on your neck, you put it on your neck. I wouldn't put it all over your body because you need to perspire. But like there's some, and then there's some mosquito stuff there that they have. The vanilla trick does not work, at least for me. I became like vanilla cake to those little mosquitoes.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

That makes sense to me. I'll I'll I'll do the 7-Eleven mosquito spray. That that that has lots and lots of positive views. Yeah, it um it's kind of like skin so soft, I think.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish that I could have found some skin so soft. I have I still have one. Well, the problem is is in Washington there were mosquitoes too. And there's mosquitoes here in Utah. So uh no matter where I am this year, I have a bite every single day. And I think, okay, I just have to make it through the third day, and then I won't have any more bites, and then I get bitten again, and then I, you know, so I'm I'm on a constant do not scratch list. Ouch.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

All right.

SPEAKER_04 51:14

It's all right.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

The the bad part was the tick.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Yeah. So next week, do you want to do this? Um 10 o'clock your time. 10 o'clock at my time.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

10 o'clock in the morning, my time?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Let's do it at 10 o'clock at more in at my time. I don't know if summer can, I'll find out about it, or if not, we'll read more from the marathon.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Well, some of the time that works for you then.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

No, no, no, no. I think that works for me.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Okay. All right. And but if she needs another time, let me know. We can accommodate.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Okay. I'm just saying I don't know if it'll be this week or not.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

All right, okay. Well, I want her on.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Love you, Katie. Love you.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Love you, Paul. Bye-bye. Bye.