The Untold Story of How Chris and Jasmine McClarney Risked Everything for Something Greater

What happens when a worship leader sells his entire song catalog and a cleaning business owner turns a viral Facebook post into a nonprofit movement? You get Chris and Jasmine McClarney and one of the most honest conversations about faith, risk, money and marriage we've ever had.

In this episode Chris opens up about selling his catalog to Capitol, buying a studio in Franklin, and building Real Fun Records — a label designed to actually pay artists fairly. Jasmine shares how one house clean turned into a multi business operation, a mobile laundry nonprofit for the homeless, and a decade of leading with her heart over her bottom line.

This is not a highlight reel. This is the real cost of saying yes to something bigger than yourself.

Topics covered:
How Jasmine built 3 businesses from one Facebook post
Why Chris sold his catalog for $1M and what he did next
The broken music industry model and how Real Fun Records is changing it
Running a nonprofit alongside a growing business
Faith, marriage and money under pressure
Why waiting on God might just be fear in disguise
#talents

Jasmine's Company →  https://www.greenroomcleaners.com/
Chris's Record Company →  https://www.realfunrecords.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

A lot of people would know Chris because you're a little bit more in the spotlight.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Sacrifice is great, and our story involves a lot of sacrifice. It's been two years and we haven't made any money. And they said, you need to think about right now what kind of person you're gonna be when you're rich.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

A lot of people don't know Jasmine McCartney.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Being a woman entrepreneur can be a very lonely place. The tension that we've lived in, making a living and making a difference. There's been a couple of times where it's like, I'm done with this. Like, I'm gonna throw in the towel here.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Both of your guys' stories, if your goal is to go build something only to make money, you probably won't get it. Thank you for being here with me, guys. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Any chance to brag on this group?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Truthfully, what I do is I just make a list of my favorite people. And then I that's why I started a podcast. I was like, man, how do I get how do I get Chris and Jasmine to respond to my text messages? Oh no, I'm the worst at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

I am better at responding at tech. I have that.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Multiple times in our friendship, Chris looked at his phone and seen like 400 texts. And I'm like, bro, doesn't that just like stress you out? And you're like, yeah, kinda. And then you go, watch this.

SPEAKER_06 1:25

Mark's red. I've got that's what I do. Once it gets big enough. Like, now I feel good. This is awesome. Sorry, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Let's look. How many times? Yeah, what do you got right now? 1834.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Are you kidding me? That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Are you gonna do it right now? I don't want to make your people watch and have a heart attack. It really bugs organized people.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

It's red. What is it for you though? Like you just do you not like text messages, or do you not like I get overwhelmed and hide.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

So like in seasons where I feel like overwhelmed, I like to hide. So I'll like not answer text for a while. It's not, I mean, it's not healthy. I'm just saying that's what it is. I'm not proud of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

You're like I'm currently meeting with my therapist about.

SPEAKER_07 2:20

I am perfect.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Well, you're in the perfect place because this is a perfect spot for imperfect people. But I talk so much in in just talents and the podcast and what I'm I'm building, it's the people that want to have an impact versus people that just need to pay their bills. And um uh Jasmine, I feel like you have such a you have such a talents story, such a talents journey from what I know, and I think I'm probably gonna learn some a little bit today as well. Um But uh Jasmine, uh, I've met you guys, both of you guys, gosh. A while ago. Almost 15 years ago. Um, and uh Jasmine has been my like, she's my Instagram encourager.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

She tells me about your life all the time.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

So anytime I anytime like I put something out where I'm like trying to be dumb goofy or like dry sense of humor, and I'm always like wondering, like, will anybody get Jasmine's always like, I got it. Yeah, I got it. Good job, Cody. Hey, hey, if that joke didn't land with anybody else, I got it, you know. So you're my little encourager, and I really appreciate that. No problem. I feel seen and I feel heard. Perfect. And uh, but um, I wanna we're gonna talk about both of your guys' lives because you guys both have incredibly amazing projects going on in your lives and in what you've done, both both of you in your own right. Um now I could ask Jasmine what she does, but I think that the truth is Chris would probably explain it a little bit better. So set the stage for what she's done over the years, the businesses that she's built.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

So she's always been an entrepreneur, like for as long as we've been married, you've been trying to make money one way or another. Um she wanted to put our kids in private school. I went to public school, she went to public school.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I'm like, well, but talk about this private school.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Oh no, it's a really good school.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Beautifully diverse Christian school in the area. Like it's incredible. It's a great school, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

But it's expensive. And uh and so I was kind of going, no, I don't know. And she was like, I think I want to get I want to get a job cleaning houses two days a week, and I'll just do that. And she got one house, and then we were driving out to Reading from Sacramento, and you got a text or Facebook something.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

I did one one off clean for this lady, and actually, I think you were already in Reading. We were here, it was Halloween night, and I was about to fly out and meet you for a conference. Oh wow? Yeah. I was at Chipotle when I got the this message. This lady texted me that I had just cleaned her house, and she goes, Hey, I am sorry if this was not okay, but I posted in a mom's group that you made my house smell like a spa. And I really, yeah. It was like, and and she goes, You might want to just check your Facebook. And so I checked my Facebook and I had over 50 messages of people wanting cleaning service. And so I didn't have time to think about it. I was like, I gotta get the kids to the sitter, I gotta catch a flight. And I I bought a spiral notebook for like five bucks at the airport like store in a pen. And was like, I guess I'm just gonna like write stuff down and see if I'm gonna do this. Because I so I was like writing lists like vacuums, mops, like I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 5:58

What supplies do we need? What about what about?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

That's like the most boring list I think you would ever read. I think it's what is this a list of?

SPEAKER_00 6:09

It's a terrible list. But I but I had the time in Reading to process and and pray through and decide like, am I doing this? And so on the flight back, I started writing messages back like, hey, we will come and do a walkthrough. We would love to serve. We we we we, this big gigantic children.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Her sister started working, some friends from friends.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

And uh I mean, she freaking built a business before long. She had 20-something employees. Are you serious? We have more, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

How long ago did this all start?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Uh we just turned 10 in January. Wow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

You look really good for your age. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Right? Seriously. Right whole major 10. Yeah, crazy. Also kind of weird.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, super weird. I was only 11.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Um, so you just turned 10.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Go ahead. Yeah, so she's been like growing steadily and tons of ups and downs in the business world, like stuff I never even thought about. I don't I don't know if you guys know about me. I'm not really a businessy type guy. I'm not a businessman, I'm a businessman. I'm wearing my business socks. Look how red those are. Um and one of the cool things was she's it felt like she was praying, like, man, this is like we're being blessed. Like, how do we bless the world? Like, what can we do? And most most of the time at houses, her employees were waiting on laundry. This was before she has the laundry business. You have three businesses. She has a full laundry, like huge industrial washers and dryers. It's amazing. Um, but the the cleaners used to do the laundry, like the sheets in the house. Right, right. And so she'd be charging the guys like 20 bucks, 30 bucks an hour for them to just wash clothes. Yeah. So out of that, she was like, this is what I assume was going on in her head. You have to ask her.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

It was like, well, I mean, let's do laundry for these homeless people. And um we had this is what was crazy. She had the idea like the next weekend. Um, a friend of ours named Gary, he's an older Australian man. Sounds like straight up like Crocodile Hunter. Oh, yes. Yeah, it's amazing. And uh she just had him put two washers and two dryers in the back of a cheap little pull-long trailer type thing. And we'd go down in the beginning, it was awesome. We'd go down on Sundays after church, and I like that because you'd leave worship and people would be like, Brother Chris, that was so good. But then you could go and immediately give it all back to God. Like, here's uh homeless people, and we did that for a while, and then she started. My gosh. The whole time the business is growing too. So the business is growing, and the nonprofit is going growing exponentially at that time. I mean, before long, she was planning an even bigger uh, which is what we currently have. Or there's a new model out now, isn't there? Yeah with like showers and washers and dryers. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Wow. So so let's slow down just a second. So 10 years ago, you happened to like do a really great job for somebody. That person elevated there, you had all of these leads. D did it just spread like those 40-50 people just started telling everybody else?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

It was word of mouth. Yeah, totally word of mouth. And I the thing I'm really good at is like attention to detail. Well, I don't know. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

I mean, that's why she married you.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, obviously. I'm a detail-oriented guy.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

The thing I the thing I'm really good at is uh like scrubbing the toilet or doing the work. I am a Enneagram too through and through. I don't know if you guys ever talk about Enneagram stuff, but I'm a helpful.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

I mean it's from the devil, but yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Is it from the kiddie? I'm totally kidding. There's a bike here.

SPEAKER_06 10:23

Okay. Um single in the little pentagram.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

I'm totally kidding.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Uh I need to look into a new personality test.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

I think I'm a three-two.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

I'm a two-three.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

So I'm a seven. Yeah. Seven, wing seven, seven. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I think I'm a wing six. I get it. I don't know what all of it means. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Anyway, the point is I'm just I'm mostly comfortable in like doing the stuff.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

So advertising for the stuff or the website stuff or the social media stuff, not good at. Like just not. Um, I'd much rather be doing doing the job. So yeah, we did not do like advertising or any of that. It was it really was word of mouth. And so um it was about 20. So we started in 2016. 2018 was um we had started having a really great year. And 2019 was our best year, and then 2020 was COVID. That it, you know, from there. But um but 2018, 2019, we were like that was when we were like, okay, this is working. Now what can we do to serve the community?

SPEAKER_03 11:38

So at this point, how many employees are you looking at?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

I mean, probably 20 at that time.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

And I Which is nothing to like sneeze at.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

I mean, that's like No, it's yeah, it's a lot it's a lot, and it it um I think that has been pro that's probably the hardest part of this business is is managing people. And when you actually also operate from like a heart place where heart meets business, this industry you you meet a lot of people who who need a lot of help. And so it's there is this line that we're constantly walking of like okay, she just called out again. Like, do I understand what's going on in the home? Like, do I you know what I mean? And and but also I we I have a business to run. So there's a lot of that anyway. But um yeah, we were we were doing really well, and that is when we we also wal uh work closely with an organization called Tennessee Kids Belong, and that's a foster um to adoption organization here. And so we were this is a part you kind of skipped over, is that we were you know doing some discounted cleans or free cleans, we work with them closely to to just help foster families or adoptive families. And um we kind of got that idea like what what can we do next to help these families? Okay, laundry. Like we see piles of laundry in these homes. So it's like, what can we do? How can we do that?

SPEAKER_03 13:06

And we started thinking through the trailer idea for that first, but so a like trade, so just so everyone understands. So when you say trailer idea, you're talking about couple washers and dryers, like a like an actual mobile washer and dryer set. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Mobile laundry. So when we started looking into it with Gary, who is like the brains behind everything, everybody needs a Gary. Everybody needs a Gary.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

You know what I mean? Literally shout out to Gary. Shout out to Gary, wherever Gary is right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

We love you, Gary. Um, yeah, he was doing the math on like generators and what could run these washers and dryers and all of that. And when we started thinking through pulling up in a truck and trailer with these generators running for how many hours, HOAs would definitely like have our heads on a platter like that. Duty tootie's too loud. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Shut it up.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah, so so that's when we started going, who who could we serve with this idea? And we went downtown and started talking to people because we were like, is this a need? Like, you know, do people not have access to washers and dryers? And so we I mean, truly, when we started talking to folks, they were like, Yeah, I throw my clothes away and just wait for the next donations to come through. They don't have access to clean clothes, so so they throw them out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah. That's basically what I do with my blue jeans.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

I was gonna say just wear them till they're kids and wear them until they fall apart.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Yeah. Except the socks. Chris always washes the socks. I've got to get them new socks.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Um or or they're not within walking distance of of laundromats. Uh or laundromats, if they can make it there, they can't pay ten bucks a load. Yeah. You know, and so um we started looking into things, talked to uh found a an organization in town called Shower Up who um knew how to hook up to the fire hydrants.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

They do mobile showers. What? Yeah, so they do showers. Mobile showers for fire hydrants. Yeah, and basically just got this like one connector and it has all these hose outputs. It's insane. It has a water meter on the boat.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Water pressure's good.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Oh, yeah. Yeah, never a drop in water pressure. They we yeah I'm used to like the business side of things where if you cold call or you send an email, you're probably not gonna get a response. Like if you're trying to connect with somebody. Right. Um, or you know, I've got an offer, I you know, you won't be able to refuse. They they do not want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

That's uh her mafia impersonation. Yeah, that was. I've got an offer, you will not be able to refuse. I've got an offer, you cannot refuse.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

You will not be able to refuse. Um, so I emailed shower up, and like I feel like within the hour they wrote back and they were like, Oh my gosh, we've been wanting to do this, we don't have the bandwidth for it. Like, yes, like we will help you however we can.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

So you identified need that they already knew was a need.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

And so since we became an official nonprofit in 2019 and ran a w ran a trailer with two washers and two dryers. The dryers, man, they it they weren't always working, and it was it was just like a whole thing, like learning, you know, what we were even doing.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

A lot of learning. Lots of learning. A little fickle, very fickle, and but generators breaking all the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Shower up, like walked with us through it, and we would do events together, like just all the time.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Well, it'd be awesome because uh people can show up, get a shower. So just imagine a homeless person. Yeah, they are wearing dirty clothes, they look crazy, their hair's all up crazy. They can get their laundry done by Jess, take a shower, and there's people giving like beard shaves and haircuts, like barbers out there. Those are the best events.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, then like food station. I mean, they could literally go to a job interview after they they look so cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

That's cool. They're like brand new clothes. That's amazing, fresh haircut.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

So it was it, yeah, super cool. The two washers and dryers we outgrew basically when we the moment we took it onto the streets.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Oh, I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

What did you call it?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

The laundry stop.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

The laundry stop.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yep, it was the it was the laundry stop.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

And we have a cute little logo. The laundry truck with the heart.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

We did, but it was gone. Yeah. Um, but they um we we worked with shower up, did all of that, um, knew we needed to really work towards a bigger trailer. And so we raised the funds, bought a brand new truck, like down to the hour before we had to go pay for the truck, like we got our last 10 grand in. Like, I'm I'm not joking. Like, we didn't it was crazy. So got the truck, got the trailer. It's a big, beautiful trailer with eight washers and eight dryers. Eight? It feels like driving a semi-ruck. I've never driven a semi-truck. It's just under the threshold for needing a CDL. So do you drive it too? I do I love to drive it.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

She freaking loves to tow it.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I love to tow that thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

She won't even let me drive the RV. She's like, I don't trust you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I mean, did I say it exactly? Jasmine's a boss lady. That's really what I love.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

No, I freaking love sitting in what I call the back lounge of the RV. I'm like, heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Driving across the US and I don't see him for, you know, I'm like playing games on my phone.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Just writing new songs.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

That's what that's what I should be doing.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Singing Michael Bolton together. Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

It might be a control issue on my part, but I do like I do like driving.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

It's okay, guys. This isn't like a marriage council. No, she loves it.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Should we unpack that?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

I drive everywhere except road trips, and then she is go for it. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

Dang. So you get you have this eight unit set up, and then uh where where is all that at today?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah, so um we I mean that it's out on the streets, I think five days a week right now. I mean, we're we're downtown quite a bit. Um but we last year, I just knew with with my businesses and what I really wanted to see, where I wanted to see the laundry stock go and the growth I really wanted to see, and knew that it could really impact people. Um I didn't have I didn't have the capacity to do it. And so um we started talking to shower up about because they're in several cities. Okay, they've got a lot of locations, lots of trucks out. And so started talking to them about merging with them, coming under, being a part of the shower up family. I mean, you I just you know, we had a small board, um I had a friend that that co-founded it with me, and and we just we both had full-time jobs. Like it was not a and so it was This is truly a passion project. Totally, totally. And I I cried once when we were like sealing the deal, like this is happening, and it was just I just knew in that release that God had it and and this is where the growth could happen. And so far, I think they've launched four or five new places with laundry, and it's it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

So this started from you wanted to put your kids in private school, and you thought about how to make extra money to essentially doing a really good job and then having more people go, hey, let's let's hang out, let's talk. Were you always entrepreneurial?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Like how when did you know you were an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Uh when I was eight, I was going door to door selling macrame door hangers with people's addresses. They could custom order. This is an 88.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

An 88?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

And it sounds like a scene from Napoleon Dying.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

I know. You want to buy, would you like to buy a custom name?

unknown 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

That's exactly what it was.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

It's only 50 cents. It's for a good cause.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Photos of the case. What's that girl's name on the photo?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

What is her name? I can see her face. Yeah, I can totally see her face. Would you like to buy a bracelet? Would you like to buy a bracelet?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

We just dropped them and ran off. Yeah. What a great movie.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Your mom goes to call it. Anyway, Napoleon, that was a tangent.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

That was that's exactly what it was like. And I sold, I saw quite a few of those. I was making bank at eight years old.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Yeah, you were. Um and then Did you do that because you wanted to, or like money was tight? Or your parents were like, if you want shoes.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, no, at that time, no. Uh later on in life, there was more of a necessity to work. You know, dad left, single mom. Um, you know, when I was twelve or thirteen.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

I know the story. I was thirteen.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yes, that's yeah. So so there, but at eight, there was no necessity. I just wanted I loved the exchange of cash. Like I just wanted that cash.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

So she's she's so funny, she doesn't like to spend money. Like she won't buy herself stuff. She loves to make it. Yeah, it's like the making of the money is the fun part to her. Yeah. And so it balances out. I love to spend it. She loves to make it. It's kind of a perfect. It's perfect.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

It's a marriage made in heaven yet. She's like sweet. He's like, honey, look at my Chris's like, honey, look at my shoe collection. It's growing.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I have a bunch of things.

SPEAKER_06 22:42

I love your cleaning business.

unknown 22:44

It's so good.

SPEAKER_06 22:47

Keep going.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Um, but but uh so out of necessity, but eight years old, you kind of saw that. You um so I think there's different types of entrepreneurs. Was any of this ever scary to you?

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Um No, I don't think so. I I just I love working with people. I love being in people's homes. I love I will say, so I I sat down with he's actually our governor now. He's we're close with our family.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Um the governor walked her down the aisle. Wow. Because uh like she said her dad left when she was my dad wasn't yeah, my dad did not attend my wedding.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Um we're cool now. Yeah. Oh yeah, we're cool now.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

Um I'm glad we get a stuff just so you guys know.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

He'll stay in our backyard. So tell me how that made you feel like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, yeah. Where was Jesus? Um so no, I I sat down with him. This is when he was at Lee Company. So, you know, he just I wanted the business like, you know, give me the tell me what to do. This was like probably a year in or something. And um he I said, I just want to be, I just want to be cleaning toilets. Like I just want to be in there with them. Like I don't wanna, you know, I don't know if this is really for me because I just want to, and he goes, if you stay there, like if you stay cleaning toilets, which is admirable, go for it. You know, you're working with your team or whatever, but if you do that, you won't ever be able to create the opportunities that you could create if you step outside of that and and focus on growth and focus on on the people, focus on your clients, but but you can't be in there all the time doing the stuff because you won't be able to manage your team and and and you know, you want that single mom to be able to pay her bills, you've got to lead this thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

So and she pays that was scary as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

We try to pay a living wage, but that is getting increasingly more difficult.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah, well, we we can't afford to live now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:04

Like, my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Less shoes, less shoes.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Less shoes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Oh, we get free eggs now? She tell you about the chickens? No, we have six chickens.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Let's not call them free, they're probably more expensive eggs than what we'd buy in the store because we feed them really well.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah, you need to just make some bug like catching stuff. Just let them eat the bugs. Free bugs.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

You go ahead and why don't you take eggs? They're probably really good eggs.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

They are really good eggs, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Yeah, I love eggs. I eat eggs every day. Yeah, heck yes.

SPEAKER_06 25:35

Oh, we should have bought eggs.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Love the eggs. Yeah, it's fine. I'm here to fly. I'm here, I'm here tomorrow. I'm just kidding. No problem, no problem. But so uh as an entrepreneur, did you do anything entrepreneurial before that? Was this your like here's what's interesting about your story. I think a lot of people are trying to find how do I how do I do something I'm passionate about? And lining up passion with like meaningful income is kind of a hard thing to do. And I think a lot of times when we really get down to it, we're like, I was a little bit trial and error, to be honest. Like um, I don't imagine like as a 15-year-old, you're like, my dream is to clean toilets, but something in you came alive at the opportunity to serve people in this way, and then you saw that. Um I think that's really significant because I don't think that people put those together. Like, oh, you know, like I can make money doing meaningful work. Yeah. Period. And and I think people get a lot of stuff, they get really stuck. So I'm just curious, like what that process was like for you prior to all of this, um, like in your twenties and things like that. Was it just something that sat in you or was it who who how did you develop yourself as a business? You're basically a business operator, you know?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, I the You used to have a jewelry business.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Oh, I did do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

And then before that, she was sewing stuff and selling it at the markets. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Oh, you were such an entrepreneur. She was.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

She did like our whole marriage.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

She even did one of the I did an MLM Arbon, sold Arbon for a while.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

You're never doing this again, Pai.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, that yeah, that was, you know. Um, yeah, I forgot about all that. Just I I don't know. I I think that um the key for me, I mean I it's something I'm passionate about serving people. I'm not necessarily passionate about scrubbing someone's shower. I'm passionate about serving people. Um and when you pair that with with meeting a need, like meeting a need and your passion, I think you're unstoppable. Yeah. When you find a need, that's where the that's where the money is.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Um the money is finding or is meeting the need of a rich person.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

Not necessarily the meaning is finding a way to make money with the best. Let's put that phrase.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, I don't know. I your your podcast description says something along the lines of uh what is it, the tension between making a living and making a difference. And that literally describes the tension that we've lived in for definitely the last couple of years. But um where you kind of you you go out on a limb, you risk a little bit more um in order to change the community around you or the world or impact the community. And um I don't know. I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah. I I think you're I love that when I'm like, what'd you do before that? And you're like, and he's like, You did jewelry, you did this, you did this, you did this, like he's going through it.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I I think that they're I know I miss some businesses. Almost every year you'd start a new business to make money. She loves to make money. You'd probably still macrame something and sell it door to door.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Where where does that come from?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

I don't know. I've I've just always been that way. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

She really has. And it's so funny because she doesn't spend money on herself. I've seen her spend more money at thrift stores. The only time she ever bought something cool for herself was the card that we have. The Yukon. And it is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Drive a Yukon. Yeah. Nolan on Ducks. I love that I tried to just see. Like Justin Beaver. But the the uh so I have what I call part of my good money moves stuff is this idea that everybody has a money story. And your money story is that internal script that silently influences the way that you make decisions week to week, day to day. And it's often subconscious, it's often learned from childhood, it's often only partial truths. Um and it's not necessarily bad. I think when most people hear me say that, they go, Oh, so like I need to identify the lie and replace it with the truth. We're gonna go through that exercise right now. Um close your eyes, put out your hands, and we're gonna do this together. Um uh, Chris, repeat after me. I'm just kidding. I will not buy more shoes. Um but the uh but everybody has a money story, and and regardless if you're aware of it or not, it affects the way that you make decisions. So a big part of what I do is I take people through a money story discovery process where we invite the Holy Spirit to speak to us and show us things, and it's it's really powerful because what happens is most of the time you're reminded of two or three, maybe four moments in your life that in that marked you in this in this way, and then you step back and you go, I have always known about that moment, but I never realized how it affected me. So, for for example, one one thing when I for me was when I was fifth grade, came home in the summer playing with my buddy, we got hungry, so I was like, let's go get some food. Went to my house, opened the fridge, and there was baking soda and ketchup. And I was so embarrassed, I opened up the freezer, there was ice cream. So I was like, You want ice cream? He's like, Yeah. So we got ice cream, and I said, he wasn't a Christian or anything, but I'm like, hey, do you mind if we just pray for food? Because I was embarrassed, and for some reason, as a fifth grader, I thought that was like how I would posture.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Well, then, you want 12 baskets of ice cream when you're done praying.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

God ice cream multiplies.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Dude, I'm right there with like do you want do you want to see God multiply? Hold up, hold up.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

I mean, this was before phone, so you can have it on video. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

It's not documented because it started breaking the ice cream. There's only accounts from the witnesses that were there.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

They lowered that one back guy through the screen.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

That's so good. Man, how did you know my story? I I didn't even have to finish it, and you knew it. You knew the whole story.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

That was the whole story, wasn't it? Wow.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

What did happen, which is funny, is it wasn't ice cream, but we pray, and 15 minutes later, somebody knocks on the door. I go answer the door, and it's our house church, and they knew we were going through a hard time. No way! And they were standing there with a refrigerator-sized box full of food.

SPEAKER_07 33:26

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

And I remember standing there, and I was like, I was so impressed as a fifth grader that like that's my God. My buddy Keith, he's not a believer, he's sitting there and he's like, Holy big! Dude, we just prayed. Like, like, you know, and the fact of the matter is we prayed, but that was already in motion. That provision was already in motion. That was part of my money story. Oh, God's my provider. Like, that's so good. Like, I'm I'm an 11-year-old going, yeah, that put a confidence in me that like I'm never gonna lack with God. Yeah, yeah. Like he hears, he, you know, he and and maybe we didn't always have everything we wanted, but but there was all so that's part of my money. That's not a negative thing, but I I can go through those. And I'm I'm just curious, like, as we're talking, you know, how aware you are of maybe your money story in in and how it sort of dictates some of this conversation, because I think the truth is, um I do think that there's a wiring-iness of like entrepreneurism. Like, I think that's a thing. I I mean I'm so grateful that I had like people when I was a teenager like, you're you know you're an entrepreneur. And I'm like, I didn't know what it was, but I'm like, Oh, it sounds like manure. I'm like, what? What'd you call me? Say it to my face, man. You won't say it again.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

I like how country he was with you.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

I feel like uh the judge on American Idol, what's his name?

SPEAKER_06 34:57

Yeah.

unknown 34:59

What's his name?

SPEAKER_06 35:00

That was real good. Luke Bryant.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Luke Bryant. I saw him at the sushi shop one day wearing a quarter of a million dollar uh Richard Mill watch. And I did not see him, nor I don't think I would have recognized him. I just saw the watch. And I go, holy crap, are you wearing a Richard Mill like over him? I'm not even looking at him. And then I look down at him and he goes, I sure am. I'm sure I am sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

That's a great story. I love that. But yeah, do you um, you know, if if if obviously we're not doing like a sozo session right now or anything like that, but if you were to think about as we're talking, um, you know, what what what comes to your mind as I'm saying that, like your money story and the way that you're wired. Because I just think it's so important that we identify yeah, like the things that drive us and the things that fuel us.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Um that I I think there's some similarities between us, but um I think the the things that come to mind would be the earlier years where I think it was wired into me. Um I also watched my grandparents um who lived in a in a built-out boxcar from when he worked on the railroad. I don't know. I wow he just I don't know, they just saved everything. They didn't throw anything away, they didn't there was no waste there, you know, it was just like kind of watching them, and then they would go to the flea market on the weekends and sell. He had stuff in sheds and um and so kind of watching some of that and then coupled with the when my dad left and the single mom, we weren't getting child support. And so I was 12. 12 and 13, I started babysitting. I had to pay for my own field trips. Like I we we were church pantry, like, you know, to fill the fridge kind of a thing or whatever assistance we could could get. My mom was, my mom, um, she's now she went to She's the hardest worker I've ever seen. She is. She went to TSU on a minority scholarship after we left as a white woman. I was gonna say, I'm trying to figure out what ethnicity we're talking about. That's why she's named Jasmine.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

So real light skinned.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Just makeup.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yeah. Um and after we were raised, my sister and I, and uh she became an electrical engineer, like after and worked.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Your mom did flight or flight of the jets in at Lockheed Martin and the like at the time, the top secret jet uh at Lockheed. And for my birthday one year, she sent me a signed photo from the pilot. Are you serious? Oh cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

So she so so that's such a cool gift.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

She watching how hard she worked, she was so she was selling Kirby vacuum cleaners door to door. She was doing, she's a musician, so she was doing, she started something called Providence Productions, where she was taking the craziest songs we've ever heard and like trying to program them in like back in the 90s to make them be something they could use or whatever. So I think watching her she grew up behind the bar too.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Well, yeah, people get tips and stuff, probably. You were like, I like that exchange.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

No, I did not care about tips. No, tips I did not know.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Just the exchange of money, you were like, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

No, my parents, okay. Uh we lived in Alaska for five years in the 80s, and my parents um were musicians and played in Eskimo bars. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

And so we made more uh seen them make up with just rubbing nose. When they get real into it, it's not it's good.

SPEAKER_07 39:10

Literally cannot.

SPEAKER_06 39:12

Hey, get a room.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Eskimo kisses. Eskimo kisses. No, they played Eskimo Force. They made more money in Alaska in the 80s than they could have ever been. Yeah, I think they still do a dividend check for living there.

SPEAKER_06 39:28

That's amazing. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

So but that's how we ended up in Nashville is my mom was trying out for You Can Be a Star, which was the TV show back then.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

I totally remember that show.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

And so she went back and forth a few times and then we moved. Yeah. So um she's a musician through and through, and so she tried to do that, but then she needed to like pick up side jobs to just make everything work. So the vacuums, the whatever else she did. So watching her work hard and make it work for our family, I that's like ingrained in me.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

But I also knew and I and made a decision then that I never wanted my family to go that route. You know what I mean? To be to struggle like that. And so um I think that's I think that's where Yeah, we we we have the same story.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

The the late the last podcast that I episode I released was a little bit of my story, and it's it's literally the same uh same conversation, the same, the same thread. Um and uh I I I think it's important I I ask you that question, are you aware of your money story? Because I do think that I don't know, I kind of feel like I I kind of feel like if you've never had to go through anything, like I don't know how much I want to like partner with you or like like because there's something about going through hard circumstances and situations and having to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

It's almost like it creates character, yeah. Yeah, um, uh like James says.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Yeah. You will it's so crazy how the Bible says that. And then it plays out live. But it's it it we read that and but we don't want to live it.

SPEAKER_07 41:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

And we we read that and then we we wanna anything bad happens like this is the devil. I'm like, uh I don't know, like God doesn't promise us well.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

I mean, if you think about it, suffering is the norm in the world. We're lucky that we were born here at this one place, at any other given place in the world, suffering is the norm. Yeah, and it's like I don't know, the you know a little bit of our story kind of Leroy Jenkins in and buying a studio just out of nowhere. Yeah, um I think part of what I've been learning is just the joy of sharing and suffering with the body of Christ. It's like, I mean, there's real Christians right now being killed around the world.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

And it's like I'm I'm sad because I have to eat rice tonight, but like that doesn't make any sense. Like, yeah, what take just take a moment to share in that suffering, commune with the believers around the world and what sh is normal for them. Right. It's like God doesn't promise that things are gonna be good all the time, He promises that He has a plan that it will be good, yeah and it's gonna work out. Yeah, and it might not it's definitely not gonna look like what you think because you're not God. Like, how would you even know? But the idea that Yeah, what you just said, like we're so scared of suffering. But how boring would uh the hobbit be if he just got the ring and they flew it to Freaky Mordor, and then that's the end of it. Right, right. Well, but that's what we want for our own life. We're always seeking like some sort of oh no, I don't like if it's God, I won't be in the fire at all. And it's like, no, if it's God, you'll probably be feeling the tension. Yeah, like most of the Bible stories are like, and they thought they were gonna be killed, and at the last second, God gave them an idea, yeah, and they were like, it's not about it being good, it's about him getting glory for being awesome, yeah. And everything in our life. And yeah, I that's something we we've been thinking about a lot, is what you just said. Just the idea that like you have to lose your life to find it. And I don't know exactly what that means, but I think taking big risks and just seeing what happens is like somebody asked me what like what do you think is your gift? And I'm like, I think I'm just brave. Like, I'm not really gifted, I'm just brave. Like it's easy to do it for me because I've seen God work so many times in our life before. Yeah, like over and over. And over, and even when we just talking about money story, the first time I got offered a deal, so I had written Your Love Never Fails, Jesus Culture was gonna record it, and every label in town was calling me. And I was like, No, I I don't need to make money from people singing this song at church. What do you mean? Like, wow, that's crazy. Like that, no, no, they can just do it for free, and they're like, That's not how it works, man. There's gonna be money waiting for you. Wow. You have to get. But I mean, it all felt icky, and so I just asked Jazz, like, what do you think about the idea of what if we give away the advance? Because the advances just kept getting bigger and more crazy. So, what if we give that away, and then we won't make a decision based on money. And uh and so we did, and the just the goodness of God in that one choice, um so integrity had offered me a bunch of money, and so had uh Brentwood Benson, and so had they were labels that existed back then that don't even exist anymore. And um and we signed with the tiniest record company out of England, and the beauty of it was they immediately they immediately got bought, and then that company bought integrity, and integrity was partners with Sony, and also the company I was with was partners with Capital, so for like six years of my life, I was signed to every Christian label in town. And it was all because of one decision that we took it out and we built a school in Brazil. It cost 10 grand to build schools and like in the Amazon, and we were like, let's do it. Fucking gave it back.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

I think I think what's it the thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is most of the advice that the gurus want to give is about how to risk how to mitigate risk. Yeah, how to like you know, what's what's the risk profile? What's the you know, there's all of these equations and let's just say, and I'm not for I'm not against stewardship, yeah. But I think I don't know a lot of places in the Bible that talk about don't take risk.

unknown 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

But that's like the that is that is the the message. I mean, part of part of what I'm going up against and challenging is even some of the the I'm grateful for Dave Ramsey, but uh a lot of that is like don't be a dummy and don't take risk. Yeah, why would you do that? Because that's risky. And I'm like, well, I actually generally when he's saying that I agree because I'm like, yeah, they're talking about taking on 30% interest, credit card interest. And so it's like, yeah, don't be an idiot and like that's stupid risk. But what about having faith to step out and go do things? Because I I feel like on the other side of that are some of the most amazing, insanely cool stories and the most amazing, insanely cool cool experiences and memories and what we're showing our kids and what we're modeling to them and all this kind of stuff. So I'm I'm not like a take risk and abandon all, but at the same time, I'm like, no, I actually think that there's something healthy about walking through life, taking leaps of faith about things that you feel God's put in your heart and seeing them come to fruition at some level. You're you're very much uh you're very much there right now with what you guys have done with uh with tell tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Okay, so say whatever you want to say. So like 2020, well, 2019, um, my best friend, a guitar player, James Duke, you know.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

Yeah, I know, James. Um he just oozes cool without trying. He's the guy I'm always like, I'm like, I just wish I could just wake up and be cool like that.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

I know. And then he wakes up and is cool. Yeah, but I don't even think he like No, he doesn't even have to think about it. He's like, Yeah, I'm awake. He's like here we go. Sorry. My bad. Um no, he was really struggling because the gigs were kind of not what they used to be. I mean, you know, we're in the middle of it too. And um, he said, Dude, we pray and fast so I can get a real job. I I like I don't know what I'm gonna do like next month or the month after. And we did for a week, prayed and fast, and he got a job at Centricity. But what was crazy is in that moment, and I've been in this business for a long time, but in that moment I had the realization that like, wait, Stu and James Duke are like at the top of the ladder of of worship guitar players, they're legends, in the right. And you're telling me that he doesn't have the ability to just live his life, like retire someday, like he's he's the best at the top of the ladder. And it for the first time in the history of doing this, I realized my god, they only get day rates, they only get so they get paid to be on the road. So I started asking, like, um, how much do you make to play on one song? Like, do do the math for me, like just tell me I'm I'm working on something in my head. And it came out to like 75 bucks. Now I rounded that up because that sounded bad. I didn't want anyone to think that was normal. And so I told I started telling people it's about an average of a hundred bucks a song. What's crazy about that is everything you hear then, every note you hear on a song costs about 500 bucks. Wow, and that's nuts. Okay, so who's keeping all the money? Um, so they'll loan you 50 grand to make a 10-song album. The record label will. They call it an advance, so it's not a loan, they're just giving you the money.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

It gets recouped after you make that much money.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Now, we know Jesus Culture was way different. It was such a healthy setup and super cool. Um, but the typical deal is not like what we had at Jesus Culture. We were just a church movement doing a thing. Like money wasn't the main thing anyway. So, but these these labels, the typical deal is they keep 85% of everything, and you get 15%. That means you have to pay it back at 15%. Every time it makes a dollar, you pay back 15 cents. So if you do the math on that, a typical record in this town will cost the artist $333,333.33 before they make a single penny. Wow. Because that's what it'll take to recoup 50k.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

You know how much you get for uh one million streams? 5,000 bucks. Nobody's recouping. No, it'd be impossible. You'd have to be like Beyonce times 10. Right. Like just to get like back to your your recouping spot. And the life of these songs are so fast, it's like boom, boom. And basically, I realized nobody in the music industry makes money except for the label. Like, that's the only one that wins. And not even the guys that we know that work at the label. They're still on the losing, they don't get a bonus. Yeah, yeah. They're just if I but if I sell a million records, they're just on salary. They're gonna get it the same thing they got last year. Yeah, they're on the losing side too. And it made me so mad. I just had the thought we don't need them. Like me and my friends write the songs. My other friends are the best players in this town. Uh, my other friends are like the the graphic designers that do it's like we don't need a label, we need community. Like, what if everybody my my community doesn't have money? You think about acts, it's this, and they brought everything they had and shared it together, and that's how they like. Well, I'm like, hey, we don't money, but we have gifts. I don't know how to play bass, you do. I don't know how to play drums, you do. Yeah, bring your gift together. And basically the concept was let's just share it all. Like, if we like an artist, let's make a song for them. And we'll share it. We can give the artists more than they've ever gotten in a deal, zero recouping, because we're not loaning anything. We're saying we believe in you. Yeah, let's do this together. And guitar players keep, you know, 5%, and drummers are getting 5% of a record that lasts forever. The guy that does the graphic design. And um, I mean, we've had moderate success. We released about 40 songs last year.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

Wow. It was cool. So, okay, so you have this epiphany, which is amazing and accurate. But how does it- Well, it made me mad.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

It made me like real frustrated that like.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Is this is this you mad, by the way? Is this mad? Yeah, this is me mad. This is mad. Yeah, this is peak mad. I'm trying to imagine Chris mad.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

I do it sometimes. Uh Charlie said I crashed up.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

He crashes out on if people don't drive like they're.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

If people are mean to her, I'll crash out. Makes me so mad. I'm like, what are you talking to her like? Yeah, you and I both. And I'll like, and I will crash out a little bit, and I'll be like, I'm super calm until that. It just makes me mad when like, even though they're my kids, I'm like, that's my wife and your mom. Like, I can't hit you anymore because we're not in 1980, but you deserve something. Um so I got mad basically that it just felt like that this industry, the Nashville principality, is one that just takes advantage of God's people. You think about in the Bible, the Levites, the ones that got the tithe that people brought, like that was for them, they the sacrifices and stuff. And it's crazy to think that nowadays our Levites can't even make it past 35. If they want to get married, they can't. Wow. And and how do how then do we have base dads that teach, like, how do we make base disciples if we don't have base dads and base guides? Because they all have to quit when they get a family. I mean, we we saw it happen over and over, all of our friends. Yep, yeah, like uh like when I was talking about the guy that owns the coffee shop here, sitting in.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

And most in the other aspect there that's really interesting is most of the most talented creative artists, they don't care about money, no, even a tiny bit. They don't, and then they don't. I remember talking to some of our friends, mutual friends, and asking them when we were at the peak of stuff, hey, so what are you gonna do like 10 years from now if this sort of slows down? Oh, it's never gonna slow down. I was like, what? What are you talking about? Yeah, I'm like, well, this probably will end at some point, right? Like, they don't even think about those kind of things. So then you're out there, you know. I just talked to a buddy who just he ended up getting a job at a grocery store because he was like, Well, that's that's what I had to do. Okay, so you have this anger epiphany. Um, you start throwing things, you start tearing through Nashville.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

No, I just started uh I started telling my friends, like, I'd just be like, guys, we just need a studio. That's all we need. Like, you do that and you do that and you do that. And um I just kept saying that. And finally I decided, like, screw it, I'm gonna sell my catalog of songs. So um shopped around for about a year or so trying to get top dollar for it, and finally got capital to give me a million for my catalog. And it was like, all right, let's buy a studio. Now, what was crazy was the buy a studio was like down the road in my mind. Like, we're gonna sell this, we're gonna figure out what we're doing with our house. Well, this studio in downtown Franklin goes up for sale 1.25. Now, because we're both self-employed or we own our own. Right, right. The bank says we're like, you've never made money in your life. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, I just like I had a million bucks. Because you deduct things ethically, yes, but you like you make a million bucks, and they're like, I can't give you a loan. How will I know if you make money? It's like, bro. Right. Um, so we can only get a loan for a million. We had paid off debt with some of that money, and that was the top of what we could do. Well, that was it. And so I went back to him and I just wrote, like, bro, I want to buy this house. This is what I want to do with it, but I can't pay more than a million. It's impossible. They won't give it to me. And um two weeks later he said, All right, I'll take it.

SPEAKER_07 56:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Now, as when it got appraised, it appraised for what they were asking. And then we had a year ago someone come up and say, What about two million for this? And it was like, What? What? Um, it's the front line of the Battle of the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

You could move to North Dakota with that kind of money. I know he's good. You know what I mean? He lived real well.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Um, but it was a god thing we got in the studio. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

Um so you sold your catalog, you started it. What's it called?

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Real fun.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

Real, it's called Real Fun, of course. Real fun records. Of course, you would start a record company and call it real fun.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

We do real stuff and we have fun doing it.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

Oh, that's that's easy.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Let's help orphans, let's help widows, let's help the least of these, and let's have fun. And honestly, I think the community is the ultimate goal for me. Wow. It's like, yes, uh, building catalog for these guys so that 10 years from now they can survive forever off of tails, or maybe sell it like I did, and just invest a million bucks in something. That's the ultimate goal uh for money, which will come. It's an orchard. Uh right now, goal, we're building a vegetable garden. So we're gonna do some cohorts, do some training stuff. Uh, just because again, we've got the best players in the business. Josh Fisher's there, like every time we do anything.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

He's like I love him.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

He's the best.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

And um, you know, so basically the business model is we make music for zero dollars, and everybody shares the outcome. Wow. So if it wins, all boats rise. Like the whole community goes, and this like again, we we are offered a so I said 15's a normal deal. We started at 30. So the artist doesn't have to recoup and gets 30%.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

So a third of what now that's a whole different deal.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Now they can make money off of their music.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

Are you um how how do are you just are you taking on artists or how are you doing that? Okay, so what's that look like?

SPEAKER_01 58:49

The first year we had to design a system. Like, how's this gonna work? Like, cool, Chris, you said it out loud. Neat, like that's not really legal. Yeah, cool, that's not legal. My business partner, Jesse. He um he's really the smart business guy. I'm more of the dreamer, like inspirational guy. I'm like, we can do it! Yeah, come on. Heck yeah, and he's like, we can't, man. You gotta get legal. So we spent a year kind of designing keep it all legal. Like, how do you share? How does it stay fair for everyone? Like the amount of work you have to put into it, you get back. And we wrestled with that and with the boys, and we did a little recording uh that first year. Last year, we released uh 40-something songs, and most of those were with artists, like just friends of ours that we knew. Um we did start a band called Good Things Collective, and here's the ultimate goal of that is I want to just build a platform for regular church people to be able to put out their music and it be seen and recognized. So I attached my name to every song we put out on it. So if you like Chris McClary and somebody else, and what we found is that my audience immediately starts listening to them, and you'll look at like, I mean, I think one girl got a hundred thousand percent increase in listenership. And I was like, how does that even work? That's amazing. Um, but the the goal being, and we're at the very beginning of it, but um, we'll create a platform of genuine worship music, but not necessarily worship individuals. Like, here's worship personality, so and so, but like, no, here's music coming out of a church. Um here's music coming out of the big C church instead of the four big name churches that we get most of our music from.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

Right. Um would would um would any artist fit in this environment?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Yeah, so we also made uh rock imprint this year and started releasing uh rock and roll guys. I love that. Like tooth and nail style.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

Um yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

If you do an emo, screamo, let me know. I'm I'm totally Jasmine and I. We can do it tomorrow. The studio's open. Jasmine's a bass player. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

And uh, you know, she's a little too groovy for she does backup vocals and they're like um so where do you see this 15 years from now? I see a really healthy community that looks like church, and um I mean honestly, I just want to see the Levite. For lack of a better word, it sounds so like spiritual, overly spiritual. And you guys know I'm not. I can prove it. I can curse or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

I'm not overly spiritual, but the Levites, the people that I feel like God anointed to do this thing, whatever that means to you, the idea that God said, I made you to do this, that's what I feel. I don't feel good at anything. I I definitely don't know what I'm doing, but I feel like I was made to lead worship. So it just feels comfortable. It's like, yes, this is where I belong. Um and I want to be able to give that to all of my buddies and be able to support their families, like real Levites growing old, just worshiping God.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

If this just if this just paid the bills, but built a really great community. That's a goal. Is that still the win?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Well, okay, so the label we created, and I told you we split up all the percentages. How much do you think was for the label? It was only five. Five percent. Now, that was supposed to be our take-home. Now, that will work, it'll take us 10-15 years to get there. We'll make more money than everyone else. It'll be fine because we'll tell we'll have touched everything that came out, and they'll touch individual projects. That was our thinking. But it's been two years and we haven't made any money. Yeah, um, I mean, I say that. We have started to make money, it will generate, and again, 10 years from now, it's an orchard, yeah, yeah. It takes care of itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

I love that perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Um, but how do we get there? So this year we really started digging in on okay, now how do we support this long term? That means we need to make money right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

And um well, also how do we keep the lights on?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

Well, yes. Um but I I do really well with risk. I just think it if I build it, it's gonna break. It will. It will break. If God builds it, then it will stand forever. Now, I don't know how to build like God builds. So you're just gonna have to listen and be brave. Like, um yes, it's been a sacrifice, but it's less about sacrifice and more about obedience. Scripture says obedience. I desire obedience over sacrifice. The idea that like we just felt like God told us to do it, so we did it. Wow, like it doesn't have to be more complicated than that. It it's been like the crappiest couple of years ever. I've made zero dollars. It's also been some of the most fruitful years of my life, like building relationships, finding maturity in myself, like growing through the pain of this, and realizing like like what am I gonna somebody real early on came in. They love the idea so much. They're like, this is gonna work. They said, I'm gonna work for you one day. And they said, you need to think about right now what kind of person you're gonna be when you're rich. And I was like, Well, is that really the goal, man? He's like, You need to think about it. Like, think about what kind of person you want to be. And what's been beautiful is being able to think about that while not having money. Because it's a lot harder to think through when you're flushed with cash.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

Yep, yep. It's like, yeah, oh, I don't know, I'll do anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

I can make it rain all the time. But being here, it's like, no, I want to be wise with the money I make, I want to maximize the impact it could have. Like, if I could get this business to be making like five grand a month, and if we took a grand of that and invested it into one of my buddies' businesses, I mean it's like we could do anything. Right. Like, uh, and that is the big goal, is just kind of an ecosystem of people that are part of the Big C church, want to do something real, and they're cool to share. I mean, there's honestly places for everyone. Um, and that's what we're trying to build. It is crazy hard. It has been uh I yeah, I've woken up with a lot of sore tummies from just stress and not being able to sleep. But I think ultimately you said it at the beginning of this combo, which is suffering, it creates character. It's like you you can't get it any other way. Yeah, like congrats, Chris, and you found yourself in the fire. And Second Corinthians talks about like it's all gonna be burned. Yeah, like all that can't be burned will be burned. So like Build with gold and diamond and stuff that matters and not straw. And it's like, oh, what does that look like? Well, it's hard. It's hard. You gotta refine gold. Like it's not easy. And I'm not saying that God wants us to struggle. I don't think he does. But I I don't think it's God's will that we always don't struggle. Or that we never struggle. Right. It's like, no, we we need to learn how to make it through. How boring is our story gonna be in heaven? Like, I worked a nine to five my whole life, God. Well, cool. I mean, you got all eternity to talk about that. Yeah. Janice and accounting. That's gonna be such a good story in heaven.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

Good job. I, you know, sadly, I talk to people all the time, and that's how they feel. And that's one reason, that's one mission for this entire podcast. Well, I think the world has let's let's get out of this idea of comfort, comfort, comfort, not going after the dreams in our heart or the passions that we feel God's purposed us for. Let's do it. And I think to to both of your guys' stories, one of the most important rules, if you will, if there's any rules, I don't know if there's formulas for all of this, but if there's any rules, it's like I I firmly believe that if your goal is to go build something only to make money, you probably won't hit it. When your goal is to go solve a problem, bring value to a community, serve somebody else, you always win.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:43

You might hit your goal if if your only goal is is money, but you're gonna there's gonna be a lot of people in the that you've stepped on, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Yeah, that's the ultimate truth. It's hard to honestly make a crap ton of money. Yeah, it's like without hurting people. Without hurting people, and especially with her business. I mean, most of the people that work for her, single moms, like uh lower income people that she's now paying a living wage for the first time in forever. What a cool gift to be able to give the world around you. Like it's beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:21

Yeah, it's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

She can probably make twice as much as she does, but she treats people the way they're supposed to.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

Uh gas is expensive, she charges her customers more. That's a gas surcharge.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

My people gotta drive.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:35

Yeah. Yeah. She's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

She thinks that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

That's not my generosity, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

That's uh but do you um what what what do you say? I just would love for you to just speak to that creative or that entrepreneur through the screen, you know, so to speak, and and um that's terrified, that's scared, uh, that has things that they want to go after. I I what I love about your guys' story is it's just a story of taking steps of faith and stepping out. But there's something in it, guys, that's so important to talk about, and that is this beautiful word that I love to use that nobody seems to like, stewardship. Yeah, you know, so many believers are sitting on the sidelines deep in their own fear, and they're calling that deep fear. Well, I'm just waiting on God.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

Yeah. I think it's so weird because in the music biz you run into a lot of people where you're like, you need to wait on God, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:44

Yes, yes, yes, yes. No, and I do think there's a place for that. So I'm not discounting that. There's seasons where where we do that. But I I do the more people I talk to, I'm like, oh, you're not waiting on God. You're just terrified. Yeah. And God is gonna start showing up when you start moving. And it and it feels like you guys have both lived a life that's like, all right, well, here it goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

And I mean, how much worse can it get than whatever you're at right now? Interesting, you can only get better, the world's falling apart. It's time to try this stuff, you know. Let's make a better world.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

Well, we tell our kids all the time, too, that because there's a lot, especially as teenagers or early 20s, like, what I don't know what I to do next. I'm, you know, trying to figure this out. Do I take this next step? And we just encourage them. I mean, we're we're obviously seeking the Lord together, but um, also just walk through that open door and trust that God is gonna just He'll shut it if it's not right, He'll redirect. Um, but if you're frozen and you're just like waiting on God, you you could wait there a real long time to take that first step.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:59

And then you blame it on God.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:03

You know, and then you're like You've done this to me. Yeah, yeah. And um, there's just something about I would rather live my life knocking on doors, pushing on doors, and letting God close them, yeah, than just standing in the hallway going, just waiting for God to open one. And it's like, you know, there's something around stewardship, there's something around uh, you know, the way that God created this whole experience that we're in called life in in the universe and earth. And uh there's something in his design that if you step back and you look at it, he designed us and he turned around and said, I want you to help manage this.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

Here, like, let's do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

Name all the animals, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:50

Yeah, like there's there's a collaboration that's about to take place, and and I'm I'm you know, I'm assigning you as a manager, and I just I want to manage my life well. I want to manage what God's put in my hand well, and frankly, I I'm trying I'm at a loss right now to think of anybody more than the two of you as a family unit doing what you guys are doing. It's you were living out stewardship in your own ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

I will say I messed up a little bit in the studio purchase, um like Abraham. So I felt like God told me to do something. So God came to Abraham and said, Bro, I'm gonna give you a bunch of kids. And Abraham's like, okay, cool. But he doesn't understand, so he tries to help God out. And um and in doing that, he kind of made the enemy uh the real product, which is crazy to think. Um so when we first so we buy the house and I immediately get a loan for the studio portion. And that thing has been like the bane of my existence ever since. It's like a big loan payment every month. And uh yeah, I went through the exactly what you said. Why are you doing this to me, God? But the truth is I probably just ran ahead of him. And it's like you can be your worst enemy by running ahead of God too. That's not a counterpoint to the one of like walk through the open door, because this wouldn't have happened had I not ran through, like jumped out the window, you know, kung fu style at this thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

But in doing that, the wisdom that I wish I had had was um a little bit better stewardship of not just the word that I felt like God had told me, like, do this, but the actual like running a business. Which part of it was I don't know how to do that. Yeah, I write songs, man. Yeah, and it took a lot to learn. But the other part was I do think that there's a serious risk for people that are like us that take risk, that we run ahead of God and end up making the enemy of the thing that He's promised us. That's why I said sacrifice is great, and our story involves a lot of sacrifice, like giving of ourselves for other people, but it's obedience that really matters. Yeah, like just giving of yourself to anything. I mean, anybody can sacrifice anything. Yeah, it's like like cool. Yeah, um, but the idea of doing that in stewardship and for for the idea that like with God it's gonna be better. It's gonna be hard now, right? But there's something way better on the other side. We can have it easy the whole time and never reach anything better, or we can have it hard and reach something truly better, and it'll have its new struggles and complications. That's the beauty of growth. Yeah, like we used to only make 30 grand a year, and we felt the same way we do right now. Like we just don't ever have enough. Yeah, it's like we went, it's always felt the same. It's like learning that like I need to change the way I think about money instead of like I don't my money story is I've never cared about it, and God's always just provided. And um I genuinely don't think about it, I don't like it. Like, it's cool, whatever. Now I learned from Donald Miller in his book, Small Business Something. Um, as soon as you say I don't care about money, your business fails.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:33

I read that like first chapter with the. It's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

I was just gonna say that. Um, so there was a lot of learning. Like, I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know that um you couldn't run a business like a straight ministry. I was like, man, this is gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

We'll give everything away. God'll give us more. Like, no, we're getting smart about it now. Like, yeah, how do we sustain for the long term?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

Yeah, but stewardship. Tell me this, guys. Um, you guys have such a unique dynamic in that you're both entrepreneurial in your own right, uh, creative, artistic. Yeah. Has there been the tension in the marriage of like, how have you juggled? Like, Chris is trying to build this studio and this record label, and da-da-da, and you're building uh, you know, I think maybe there's a lot of couples that are going, like, I how do I how do we do that? You know, how do you pr how has that been for you guys?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

I think the the biggest like butting of heads would be the not caring about money versus I'm like, we have this bill, we have this bill, you know, and so in that so that's been there's been tension there that we've we've been working through. And as he's kind of discovered, it's uh it has been a really terrible couple years.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

Um, like even with her your business as well, she made a big leadership change, like trying to move forward, let's grow the business. And a hire didn't work out, but it was such a like kick to the butt of what she was trying to aim higher, pull herself off of doing the work every day, and like actually grow a business, and it ended up taking her back like probably a year's worth. So, in an attempt to move forward, she's back, and it took her a year to recover, basically.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:31

What's important from those types of situations is what you do next.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

So what's important from this place that he's been in, not caring about money, but now that realization is there, and and so now we can move forward with that. It's just not a motivator.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

It's okay to say it doesn't motivate me. Sure. But I need to care about it because we need it to pay the bills.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:51

You money is a tool that you put in its place.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:54

Simply put.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

It's not my boss, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:57

So yeah, you don't have to call it your boss. It's a tool. It's just just like a mop for cleaning or a guitar for you know, uh it's it's uh and and when you put it in its right place, I think it helps you. But anyway, keep going, because it's so insightful.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

It just just that is that we could let any one of these things tank us. I mean, I I did, I mean, there's been a couple of times where it's like, I'm done with this. Like, I'm gonna throw in the towel here. But but then about five minutes later, I'm like, okay, just needed that cry, I'm good, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:30

Just need to walk it off for a second.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

Yeah, it's just overwhelming. Yeah, there's been some overwhelming places and weeks and months, but also the growth that he's experiencing, it's like, okay, now let's walk forward together in this. And uh I mean, he could give up, I could give up, but we're not we don't want to do that. It's not who you are.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:50

Nobody really gives up. Did do you when you started the the record label in the studio, was that like a family, like we're all in conversation?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:01

Yeah, I don't think there was any kind of pushback from any. It was like, why would we not do this? This sounds like an awesome idea. I think part of that is I'm pretty good at once I feel like God's given me an idea that feels like a god idea, I'm like, check this out.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:18

You're driven.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

Yeah, it's like check this out. I'm not driven to accomplish, I'm driven to get the word out. Like you like, I have an idea, I think we can do something. Um and just realizing that I can be good at that and let my business partner care about how we make money. I can build the community. So it's like in that business relationship, I'm doing that, and that's kind of how we do in our life relationship, where it's like she keeps us straight, and I keep us uh like on the edge.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:51

On the edge, you know. She keeps you straight, you keep her everything fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:55

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, she's real on fun. Real fun fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:00

That's actually where the name came from. You know, I think any startup, uh, there's stages of startup. And the first stage is the ideation, which comes with uh idealism, which was what optimism, this is gonna be amazing, it's fantasy land. And then the truth is is that you're gonna hit a wall at some phase in that stage where you move to realism, which is like, oh, this isn't as easy as I thought maybe it would be. But it doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for. Right. And that's again, um I think we we we've got to break through the fear piece, which you guys have just done really well, but then but then you've got to build the grit and the muscle to steward through what feels like winter.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

Well, it's the only reason we're able to do it is we've done it our whole marriage. Yeah, there's been many times we've given more than we had, like it like it. This is the story of how we've done life. It's like let's whisk it. Every time she wanted to start a business, we'd pour everything into it. Let's just do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:10

Um, there's no like failure doesn't bother me. Yeah. And like you've seen that on stage. Like, if I train reconciliation, you're like starting over most enjoying it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:21

You're the one sending it to worship fails.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

But dude, it brings it brings me the most to it. It's my favorite thing to happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:28

I would crawl in a hole and die.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

So I'm glad I love that. I just freaking love it. I love failure. You learn a lot from failing.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:35

100%. It's you learn more from failing than you do winning.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:38

Oh, you I don't think you learn when you win. Yeah, that's the problem. No, because you don't know which you're really good to do. I've been winning at leading worship and have no idea what I'm doing. So it's being okay with that, I think, makes it I love that so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:53

Jasmine, tell me uh, what would you say to the the women entrepreneurs out there in in the uh just just every every woman in your that maybe that has a dream or feels stuck or feels like they've had to put everything on the back burner for the f sake of their family or you know what have you? What what would you talk to the women out here?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:17

Talk to the women.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:18

I have 48.2% of my listeners. Wow. That's actually amazing. I think it's because I have five daughters, but oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

Wow. Did you get any five daughters donuts while you were out here?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:29

You know, we saw that yesterday, and I was like, oh. They're crow nuts, they're the best. No, I just I like to talk about my five daughters and then I like to take an offering. That's what I like to print out in that order. But yeah, speak to the women.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

Gosh, I just I don't know. I, you know, being a woman entrepreneur is can be a very lonely place. And I think that the the most important thing is surrounding yourself with with your people and with people that call you higher. Because girls, we can be, you know, we can we can, you know. We can do that. But but it's really important to to just push out past that kind of first layer and and find your people. Find find other people who are doing what you want to do. Um there's a lot of fear that can come in, and it's it's just important to not hold on to fear. I think that for me, every every next step that we've taken, I mean, yeah, sometimes we fail. We just do. Um but we like we've talked about this whole time. I mean, if you just don't take that step, you're just stuck. So that's been a huge, that's been a big part of our lives and of my business and nonprofit and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:59

About your business is most of the people that work with and for you are women.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:04

They are all women. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:05

Currently, you've had like a guy here or there, but just the idea that it's all what did you say?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:13

She's had what?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

A guy. A guy.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:16

She said gay guy. Yeah. I was like, I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

It's kind of cool the idea that like even her leadership team, it's just woman-run business.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:04

Hey, I would hire I'd hire a guy if if we found the right way.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:07

Yeah, I I I don't think it's about, you know, I'm not like, oh, that has to be equal, this and that. I like to me, I think at the end of the day, for me, I've got five daughters, and I want to raise them to be strong, independent, passionate, gifted, walking in the talents that God's put in their hands. And um, uh so hearing just your wisdom, that's I'm like, talk to my girls, Jasmine, because because I got some entrepreneurs in there, you know, and and creatives, and they're they're gonna they're gonna do amazing things. But I I love highlighting people like you because I feel like you're such a boss lady, and you're doing you're doing the work and you're doing the thing, and um you're doing it because you care, and you're doing it because you want to bring value to your community and serve your community, and I think that's such a beautiful thing. So thank you for just being here and sharing that for all of my 48.2 percent female listeners. Guys, thank you so much for sitting down, having this conversation. Thank you for doing the work that you're doing. Um, I'm just believing blessing over both of you guys as you continue to build. And Chris, how can people connect with real fun?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:24

Um just go to real fun records.com. Look at us.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:27

But there's there's an is there a giving component and a artist component?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:32

Not right now. No, we're gonna start a Patreon so that people can support. I mean, that was the original vision was that like rich people would support a renaissance, if you will. Like, let's just make art for art's sake. Uh surprisingly, not an investable business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:52

Well, they want to see they want to see profit margins and blah, blah, blah, for sure. But um, well, create that. And it hopefully by the time we air this, you have something like that set up. If it's there, you'll see it in the description. So we're gonna we're gonna link everything in the description so you can connect with real fun. And um, if you are in the Franklin region, Nashville region, um uh what's your what's your cleaning company?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:21

Uh green room cleaners. Green room cleaners.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:24

Music row cleaning co.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:25

Green room cleaners is non-toxic residential. Music row cleaning co is uh Airbnb only.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:30

Very toxic.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:31

And then shower up, showerup.org. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:34

Yeah. Let's uh let's let's go blow up their businesses. How about we do that, guys? How about that be our mission as we end today? Is operation blow up McLarney's businesses. Yeah, in a good way, not a bad way.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:46

Yes, so anyway, I get get insurance payout. Blow up my business. It could be a win. I'm not saying do it, because then I'd be part of the fraud. But if you blew up my business. Personally, and I didn't know about it. And I didn't know about it, so it was legal. That'd be fine. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:06

Chris, you're one of my favorite humans. Thank you so much for hanging. And Jazz, thank you too. I we I feel Kendra, yeah, we've got similar stories. Yeah, we do. And uh and you're both awesome entrepreneurs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

That's what amazes me about people like you is just the drive to accomplish. So I don't really have that drive. I'm like, the drive is to have fun, like to be friends. Um and then the way I accomplish that is via that stuff. But it's cool how your brains work. Fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:40

Yeah, we're pretty awesome. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:42

So she's definitely my better house.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:46

Awesome. Well, love you guys.