TALENTS with Cody Williams
The TALEN†S Podcast is for creatives, entrepreneurs, and anyone tired of playing small with what they’ve been given.
If you’ve ever felt the tension between making a living and making a difference…If you know you’re built for more but not sure where to start…If you care about impact, integrity, and building something that lasts…
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We’re here to change the way you see money, work, and identity. Not as things you chase, but tools you steward.
Through unfiltered conversations with artists, builders, and everyday visionaries, we’re unpacking how trust is the real currency, authenticity is the new strategy, and your life is your loudest brand.
Because success without alignment isn’t success.And money without meaning won’t move you.
This is about real work, real stories, and building a life that actually feels like yours.
TALENTS with Cody Williams
She Finds the World's Best Talent for a Living - Shine Thomas
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Her whole job is finding the best people on earth. Adidas, Nike, now Specialized.
You'd think someone at the top of that game would tell you to chase the title. She says the opposite. Chase the calling. Protect your peace. Be who you were made to be, and don't wait for things to come to you.
This is Shine Thomas. If you caught the episode with her husband Ranji, you already know this family. Part two does not disappoint
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A new playbook for getting clarity around money, meaning and momentum.
You're a boss lady, and that's like a big compliment in our world.
SPEAKER_05I worked at Adidas and then moved to Nike and I became the global vice president of all talent acquisition. And now I'm the global talent leader for a company called Specialized Bikes. There were times when I wasn't moving up the way that I thought I should. It's not about climbing the corporate ladder. I want to do what fulfilled me. When you go to bed at night, peace is the most important thing. Be really strategic about pursuing opportunities. Don't think that things are just gonna come to you. Be proactive.
SPEAKER_01How do you tell the difference between somebody chasing a title versus more of a calling? It's about how you do the best with. Shine, you are so wise.
SPEAKER_00Right. So can I interview Shine then? Is that how I'll do this?
SPEAKER_01Shine, thank you so much for being here with me.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Um I have to admit, uh selfishly, I have I wanted to have you on and have this conversation because you are um this is the biggest compliment to me, but hopefully this isn't offensive to you. Like you are truly when you look at the scale of your life and your giftings and your talent and um the different roles that you've played, uh, I I think it's fair to say, like, you're a boss lady, like in the truest sense. And that's like a big compliment in our world. Why? Because I have five daughters. Right. So for me, um I'm really excited to have this conversation and I really want to selfishly treat this as like you're across the table for my five daughters, and you're speaking into their lives and your experience and the things that you've learned and gone after and done, because you've done quite a bit in your life that is is really awesome. I'm excited to get into that story today. But um my heart in this is that you inspire that next generation of young women who have a gift in their hand. Thank you. I love that. And and and move into it. So let's start with um, let's just start with your story. Like, you know, what give us a little bit of your background and and sort of where how is your career where what have you done and how is that, you know, what's the the woven thread to that? And then um I'll probably just start asking questions off of that. Sounds good. That's okay.
SPEAKER_05And I love the fact that you talk about your daughters because I have a 21-year-old daughter too, and I think I can see that, you know, having a mom who you know is a mom first, but then also does work in the business world has shaped who she is. So I love that. I think that's such a unique perspective. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I and I look at my girls and I can see I can see that talent. Yeah. And I can't I constantly, I always told my wife, I said, would would we be parents that are in tune enough with our kids' giftings where if I had the next you know, great athlete or great singer or great whatever, would I have the skills as a parent to resource them and champion them into what it is they're gifted to do? And I think what I'm learning as a parent is some of the best mentorship is through other parents, yeah, and through other adults who are doing awesome things with the gifts that God's put in their hands. And so um, yeah, so tell us give us your background.
SPEAKER_05Love that. Okay, well, let's see. If we start with my career, um it's hard to start there, I would say just for perspective. So I grew up in Sydney, Australia. Uh, I'm the daughter of um my parents who were immigrants, they moved from India to Australia, and I think that shapes a little bit of how my career started because um it's stereotypical, but also not in in terms of the focus and value on education um and choosing very specific career paths, which I really appreciate that. There's a reason why, you know, you have a lot of people of different, you know, Asian types of ethnicities that might choose different career paths, and there's there's a lot of comedians out there that make awesome jokes about this, you know. But um, but I will say that I uh, you know, so growing up in that environment, my parents are amazing, faithful people, um, incredible, my biggest cheerleaders my whole life. So they um I'd say I'm a creative person, you know, so my dream was to be a journalist or a copywriter for an advertising agency, I'd say. So I did internships in that regard. My father's dream, though, was to pursue a more stable career path, which is interesting. But I took his advice and I ended up doing a business degree um and oddly majored in accounting, and my career started at Pricewaterhouse. Um, it's Pricewaterhouse Cooper's now, and I was actually an accountant, a chartered accountant. And so that was how my career started, which most people don't know because you would never never think that. And um, but I really appreciate the foundation that I got because I think that's I consider myself to be a business leader, um, not like an HR leader or a talent leader, but a business leader, and I think that gave me an amazing foundation. So my dad was right, wow um in in in in that really giving you some foundation for what I needed for my life. And so I did that for about five years, and I think this is an important story because it teaches you, and I think you can do it more so these days, is that it's important to pivot your career. Yeah. If it's not your passion, if it's not using all your strengths, or you feel that you should be doing something different, um you can be unfulfilled, you know. And I was unfulfilled in that career. Uh, I loved many elements of it consulting, going to clients, working in teams, all these skills that I learned back then in my 20s that I take into everything I do today, much further, later than my 20s um now. Um, but uh, but I wasn't fulfilled and I wasn't satisfied. And I think that's really important for people to know that when you talk about your podcast being about talents, like God creates talents within you. So my passion was leaning more towards creative. But I ended up doing this very, you know, very linear sort of job with some creativity, but not a lot. And so I had to make a decision and take a risk and got a lot of advice and really prayed about it. And it was probably a bit of a lull in my career, you know, when you pivot and then decided to radically change my career. And I remember having this conversation with my dad, who later on was like saw how happy it made me to doing what I was supposed to do, what I was called to do, which I believe is my calling. Um, it just just the fulfillment that it gave me. You know, going to work was really not because the work the company was bad or the people were bad, but it became a drudgery, and then it became like this is my passion, which is what I can say for the last 25 years that I've been doing what I've been doing. Even if you have good days or bad days, it's like still what you're passionate about. And I think you know this from what you do, that's what keeps you going, is you're doing your calling.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I can imagine the tension at that point of I've committed so much time to this thing. Yeah, it was a lot of time, and I've pointed myself at this thing. Yes, not just for the five years, but also schooling at some level maybe the pressure a little bit of pleasing your parents, yes and making making sure that your father's happy. Was that process um was that a quick process or was that a long process?
SPEAKER_05It was a long process, you know, it was a long because that's not how I'm wired. I'm not wired to make changes quickly and you know, like very committed to what I did. It was like three years of school and then a long internship for a year and then 18 months of getting a chartered account. So it was it was a lot. It wasn't like being a doctor or anything, but you know, it was a lot. Um, and so it was probably the first time, and I would say this to anyone, you know, as they're thinking about your daughters or my daughter, it's like you can pivot and you can take a risk and then you can go back. And so that was my decision was I will try and pivot, make a risk.
SPEAKER_01And this is my other is that what made you able to say, I'm gonna do this?
SPEAKER_05Is when you when you kind of reverse engineer that and you go, Oh, yeah, I had like a safety net a little bit, but um, but I think that this is the other theme, and I was just telling you about this before we started, is that I planned my ways, but God directs my paths, and I think that's exactly what happened. Um and so but it was a long process, and anyone could I'm a I'm not like a fast decision maker about major life things. So I had to evaluate the risks and and the cons. And then a an amazing leader came into my life that provided an opportunity for me to stay in the same organization, but shift into the exact career path that I wanted to.
SPEAKER_01So Okay, so you made that call, and then what did you move into?
SPEAKER_05So then I looked at different things and I I moved into what I do now, which is um at well, I'm a talent leader now, is what I would say. I'm a global talent leader.
SPEAKER_01I love that title, by the way. I love that title. I feel like if there's any title you could have that's just like I'm really proud of that I'd love to put in my my bio or my signature line. Um in are you allowed to say who you do that with or now? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So fast forward, I moved into recruiting, I worked for different companies. I think the two notable ones, which I think have led me to what I'm doing now, is I worked at Adidas. So I was a recruiter, that's really my core thing, which is all about talent, right? You're finding talent, you're finding the world's best talent for an organization. And then moved to Nike, and I became the global vice president of all talent acquisition for Nike, which was all geographies, all functions, all everything.
SPEAKER_01And it really is just a small little known company.
SPEAKER_05Small little company. It was amazing. It was truly the best part about working for Nike. It's an amazing brand. I got to work with amazing people, but you actually get to do the best of your craft, which is hiring the world's best talent, which is what I'm so going from being an accountant to this, I was like, you know, this is this is what I was meant to do. Um, and then God had a different plan, right? So I left Nike and now I'm the global talent leader for a company called Specialized Bikes, which not everyone has to be.
SPEAKER_01So just a little tiny, just a little thing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a lot smaller than Nike, but it's very is very you know, you know, like in the cycling industry and very much similar to Adidas and Nike, it's specialized, they're all very rooted in design and innovation, product, and as well as technology. So I think that creative with technology with business is really um that's that they're the sorts of businesses that I gravitate towards. So it's an amazing opportunity, and so that's that's what I'm doing right now.
SPEAKER_01When you uh made that first decision to get out of the accounting, yeah. Did you move into did you sort of work your way up the ladder, sort of the corporate ladder, so to speak, or was it um what was that journey like? Yeah. And did you know you had the skill then? To be a leader or not to be a leader, but the did you know you had the skill then to do what you're doing now?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It just felt so innate. I've I you know, recruiting, like anyone will tell you, it's not it's not like you get a degree in recruiting, like it's really business related, it's assessing people, it's really being able to judge people's skills and capabilities, as well as having it's like an IQ EQ job, I think, um, and as well as being very organized. So did I I I felt so successful at it almost immediately. It wasn't hard work for me. It was hard work in that you have long hours, you have to manage clients, you have to manage expectations, but it didn't, and still to this day doesn't feel like hard work, even though it's hard work, if that makes sense. Yeah. It's hard work that you or you're wired to do it. Yeah, I'm wired to do it. And eventually I became I went from being an individual contributor doing it to it's a really it's a craft role. Like you, you know, you lead teams, you know that every single person you hire makes a difference. Yeah. And you have to think about it from that point of view. And so now I lead teams that that are able to do that at at a scale that is, you know, large and global. So it's not like I I know what I'm how to do everything in my job because my job has evolved and changed. And I yes, I have climbed the corporate ladder, so to speak. Yeah, and that wasn't always easy at all. It's a journey. Um I imagine. Yeah, it's never linear, it's never easy, and you know, um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you uh do you have any stories that uh you could share with us?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, let me think. Like I always think of when we had to hire this unique executive position who was a significant design leader and finding this talent, uh, hired him from what started recruiting him. He worked for a major tech company, really well known. I won't mention any brands here. We were I was hiring, recruiting him to Nike. Very expensive talent, very tenured, really well known in the industry. So, you know, like a really significant hire that, you know, sometimes in recruiting, you don't you don't know the names of people. People aren't all famous, it's not like the movies, it's not Hollywood. Um, it's core corporations, right? But there are some people that, you know, just are known for what they've done in the in the world, and and he was one of them. He's an amazing person, amazingly talented. He was interviewing with my organization and with another top 10 Fortune 100 company. And he had an interview with my corporation CEO and this other corporation CEO in the same week. And so somehow we had to it was, you know, part of recruiting is there's a thing called closing the candidate. Yeah, which if you work in real estate, you know, you have to close the thing. Wining and dining. Waning and dining, but it's so, it's so it's not just about the compensation, it's also about the EQ connection and how do you close that person? How do you understand what their intrinsic motivations are in an authentic way? Because you can't sell something to someone that's not actually authentic or what they need or want. But I knew that we needed him and he would love working for my organization. So it was it was like a like when you talk about a war for talent, that was we are fighting for you and two CEOs of two Fortune, you know, one was a Fortune 10 company, it was a Fortune 100 company. And so closing him was hours of conversation, hours of and but that was after weeks of relationship building and weeks of getting to know him and his motivation and finding the passion that he had. I think that was the unlock there.
SPEAKER_01Did did you so like I think of uh I'm admittedly like I I read Phil Knight's um Yeah, Shoe Dog? Yeah, I've read Shoe Dog, um I've seen the movie uh where they they they showcase the recruiting of Michael Jordan and Affleck and that whole thing. Um so as you're talking, I'm imagining you know, sort of that in that situation, are you how did you how did you land that in the sense of it it I I think people can have a sense of desperation? Yeah but you just said something and I want to like just on that more you you you you talked about passion. Yeah. Um how did you land that? Was that was was there an element there that uh made him say yes?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I I think that's a really good question because and I love the fact that you say there could be a sense of like des you don't ever want that, right? You don't ever want to be desperate for a deal to close or something, it has to be the right thing. So um I would say you start landing any business negotiation, you start from the moment that you enter a relationship with someone. You know, if you know very quickly that this is the person, you don't you don't you have to go through a process, you have to assess talent, you have to know that it's they're the right fit. But you start relationship building with the goal of I'm going to close this person, but you see something in them, and I think in that movie that's what happened, right? Some people see something that other people don't see, and you have to be a little relentless in wanting to close that candidate, but with like a high level of integrity and a high level of authenticity. So integrity in that situation is well, you're coming into this role, let me tell you all the downsides, all the things that you're gonna walk into. Because it's not about you know, paint like you know, like you know, everything's perfect and you get to come to this amazing brand. And because we hired him to help elevate work, and so he was coming into some things that needed fixing. Yeah, so it's really presenting that, but I think you have to be strategic as a business person and in knowing what again what motivates someone and why you should go that extra mile. Um, and you only do that for for the right person in the right role, that's why talent's so important.
SPEAKER_01D did you um it just seems like you've got a real gift for seeing what someone else is capable of?
SPEAKER_04I hope so. That's great. I love that.
SPEAKER_01I I think that there's uh I think one of your gifts already that seems so clear is you have that ability. And and I think that's um probably deeper than just a role or a title. It's probably something that's innately within you, just like you said, you're sort of wired with a position. When did you start to recognize that skill in your life? That's a great question.
SPEAKER_05I think professionally, through the process of recruiting, I think I could I could just tell. Because talent, you know, when you run organizations, putting the right people in the right role, it's a bit of a jigzle piece, right? Like no one's ever a hundred percent perfect, there's never a hundred percent the perfect role. Um, but you you you have to I I think it's art and science, you have to understand experiences and skill sets. We have to also just know how to evaluate people and who they are. And I'm sure I've known this earlier on in my career, but had leaders help me practice the skill set that was, and that's where I really have to I have so much gratitude for leaders in my life that saw this in me as well, and I think that's really important. So I have the role that I have because I had so many people along the journey who's what I hope to do for other people from a business perspective in in hiring and and developing talent, succession planning talent, and also my own teams, other people did that for me, and so I think it's really getting to know people, what motivates them, what they're interested in, what their passions are, and um, and and then just using good business sense as well. Like it is it is really not just a people-only job, like you have to think about the business results that you're gonna drive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Talk to me about um leading teams. Uh that that is a skill in itself, right? So you've got you've got certain uh skills that we're talking about, and then you've got just this dynamic of of leading teams. Um how many how many people were you leading? Uh what's the most amount of people that you've you've led? I'll just maybe ask it that way. And and how have you navigated that?
SPEAKER_05That's great. That's a good question as well. I love all your questions. They're great. I'm usually on the other side. I'm the one asking questions, so I feel like I'm in the hotel. Tell me your greatest weakness. That's right. Um, so leading teams is really the thing that I think I am the most passionate about. Like it is not about just the work itself, it is leading teams because what you can do with a team of really motivated, talented people is just incredible. Um, especially in a work environment where people come together, you know, that people come to work, that's where you spend your majority of your time. Most people, right? So who you work with and how teams work and the health and the um psychological safety you have in teams is a make or break, I think, for people's lives. So that's why it's so important. Wow. So I have led in my last role, um, I led because I was very deep in talent acquisition. I had about 250 people globally, and um, several direct reports, and so then it was leading through leaders, and and that really the whole process of leading teams came from the first person I led to then building teams, hiring people into my own teams, you know, knowing knowing what the right dynamic is of that. So I think leading teams starts with building a team. You have to build the right team, and then you have to inspire your team. I think they're the two things that go together. Um, because if you have the right team, you have the right experiences, you have the right motivations with the people that you hire, and your team should never be all the same type of person, right? It should be people that compliment it. It's like a sporting team. Everyone has their position, everyone has their strengths, everyone comes in to do different roles at different times that helps the whole team to succeed. So to me, it's building teams and then it's leading teams, and I'm a big proponent of whether it's on-trend or not on servant leadership, which means that as a leader, you're not there to be self-serving. It's not about your agenda, it's about the people that you're leading. Yeah. And how do you create the best environment for them to be successful in in terms of work results, but also for them to come to work and and feel fulfilled and feel that they can drive great work, but also be in a psychological psychological safety, I think is very important. You know, and again, it doesn't mean that uh anyone that's be ever been on my team will tell you they did not have perfect days every single day. I wasn't a perfect leader, and I don't think it's about being perfect, but I think people see good intent, right? They see um they see how you lead and um how much you you care for your team. And I think that sometimes in business there can be a perception that if you're driving high performance that you can't have care, and that's something I'm really passionate about. I think if there's one thing that I'm I hope that I'm known for as a leader. Yeah, I I've I don't know, I've thought about this a lot lately, but as a team leader, I hope I'm known for driving high performance because I am a business leader. I'm not there just to, you know, you can't do that. Like you have to we're in 2026, the the world is complicated, you have to drive results. So a high performance team, you can drive a high performing team, but also have a high care culture. So I want to be a h a leader that drives high performance with high care. And I actually think the two can go hand in hand. It doesn't mean that you don't not manage performance, it doesn't mean that you don't not give feedback, but you do it with care. And I think that's How you get the best value of team.
SPEAKER_01Could you like I actually think that's so profound? I think a lot of organizations have that desire for leaders. Yeah. How does that manifest itself in in a day-to-day, week-to-week culture? Because really what you're talking about in a lot of ways is culture. Yes, it is culture. I I want to create a culture of care.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I want to create a culture of high performance. Yeah. Um so how does that how does that play out in in the day-to-day operations?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's I mean, there's so much that goes into that. I think one, it starts with who you are as a person and being a leader that you're the same all the time, right? You know, being a values-driven leader, and then how you build leaders around you, because it's not just me leading everyone myself. I cannot lead a team of 200 people directly, but it's how do you multiply that that culture that you that you might desire as a as a leader? And sometimes a high care, and I I want to be really clear, high care doesn't mean lot you lower your standards of work, it doesn't mean that you know people don't you don't need to have performance conversations with people, but it means that you respect everyone and you you you value every single person and what they bring. Because like I said, people come to work in not in all companies, not in all roles, not all people, but so many people come with their heart and soul. I've worked at organizations where people do, and so you have to respect that. Yeah. And I think if you have that, you get the best out of your team. So I think it's the high performance comes from everyone knowing what their role is, how they do their work. They should you should try and remove, you know, um, you should try and create a culture where there's clarity around work, around expectations. And I will say that I've worked in organizations where there has been a lack of clarity and a lot of ambiguity. I think every organization has that now, right? Not yeah, not because of anything, any negative intent, just the world, right? The business, the world that we live in. Right. So I think it's about, I always say this to my team, you communicate with appropriate transparency, you overcommunicate. So I think it's setting people up for success. I think high performance also comes from hiring the right people. Yeah. Can't have high performance if you don't have individuals that are qualified for the roles and skilled or what they do. They can produce that. Yeah. So that's why hiring is so important because if you get the wrong hiring, you you stop that. And then it's about making time. I think it's about making time for people. I think it's knowing people in your team. I think it's knowing things about their life, what's going on. I think it's about every single person having authentic experience. So who I am in a leadership team meeting should be the same person I am when I'm meeting with my team. Oh, so right? Because there shouldn't be a difference. It's it's I'm the same person.
SPEAKER_01I have a friend that um started a business in the tech space, and uh one of the things that has made them so valuable is uh again kind of the culture of care that they've taken. What's interesting about it is um they've scaled the business to I think uh around they just got value around 300 million. And um what's fascinating is when I talk to him about that the same thing that you're talking about, he he has a similar thread of conversation. And I think one of the things that we talked about was just that idea of hiring right. Yes. But he talks he also talks about the difference between um we say leave home at home and work at work, but you know, bus business here and home. And he just said, I just learned that like if someone's just going through something at home, it's almost impossible that they don't bring that in. And when you don't have a culture of care, yeah, yeah, um, absolutely you're you're not able to identify that and be and be in tune with that, if you will. Does that does that resonate with you in sort of the culture you guys have created?
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. I think that's super insightful. And I think you can you can go extreme in either way, you know, like you do have to go to work no matter what. Like I've I've raised kids and and worked, and you know, like no matter what, you do have to show up. But when you know that you're walking into an environment where your team cares about you and cares about the whole of you, not just what you bring from a work perspective, that emotional weight I think really helps people, like the emotional coverage. It doesn't mean that, and I I will say this as well, like I am not the therapist of every single person in my team. Like I think you have to be really careful with those sorts of boundaries. Yeah, but but these are human, like you know, these are people here, and you can't you can't always just leave things. So I think that allows people the opportunity to leave things, but knowing that they're again psychological safety, right? And and I think you have to have also have compassion. There are times when people just need a little time, a little grace, and that will get repaid a hundredfold, you know, because they'll they'll they'll when you give grace to people, they will they will work even harder for you.
SPEAKER_01When you hire somebody, how long are you hoping they stay?
SPEAKER_05Oh, I really don't like my teams. But no, I think I think um I think some sort of attrition is important. I think when you hire someone, you don't want them to stay actually in that role forever, right? A good leader wants to see people grow. And sometimes you're restricted because organizations have there's not there's not always a lot of positions for everyone to move up in, right? But that should be the goal. The goal should be that they continue to grow, not to stay in doing the same position. So I think it depends, you know, depends on if they're a leader or if they're an individual contributor. Some people have been doing the same role for a decade and and they're fine as long as they get growth laterally. Some people want to climb and and grow up, and you have to just try and create those opportunities. It doesn't always work out perfectly, but I'm thinking, yeah, you just have to do that.
SPEAKER_01How do you how do you tell the difference between somebody chasing a title versus more of a calling? And I say that even within the context of you discovering your wiring. Yeah, I love that. Some sometimes you didn't know at a young age how to put yourself there necessarily. Right. Um, but you got there. Yeah. You know, through that process. Are you able now in the seat that you're in to tell the same about others?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I would say I love that. Chasing a title versus a calling. I think when you chase a title, I mean, I I want to caveat this with you can be ambitious, you can want to grow, you know, because I had a I had a career goal of what I want to do. Yeah. But I would never compromise my integrity, I would not compromise how I work, I wouldn't compromise how I treat other people to get that title. And I think that's what's important because when you're chasing a call and you're doing what you're passionate about, you're doing what you've been called to do. You you're how you make decisions is not about climbing the corporate ladder, it's about how you do the best with, I think, being a steward with what you have. And that I think is really important. Um, yeah, and I and I knew like back in the days when I was a price waterhouse, I knew I did not want to be a partner. So then I knew I did not want to choose that title, right? I want to do what fulfilled me, and if I had pursued that path, that would have been a high income earning role. Like luckily it all worked out, but um, but you know but uh but I think that like doing what you're called to do just gives you greater fulfillment, and I think that it's like strength finders, you know. That's what that's what allows you probably to be more successful. Um, and I always say this like when you go to bed at night, peace is the most important thing, and that's the difference as well. Because if you chase a title, you might not make the best decisions, right? But if you're chasing a calling, you'll make hopefully the the most God-filled, integrous decisions that you can make and the decisions that He wants you to make for yourself, but also your decisions impact every other person that you work with. So I think that's really important as well.
SPEAKER_01I love that so much. I think I think what you just said is so important and so vital because we don't always know at a young age exactly where we want to go. Sometimes we think we do, yeah, and then we go out into this world called life and we experience different things, and um I think being able to make that decision and and tr and and pivot and then learn all the skills that you've learned over the years. Would you say that um you're in a corporate lead position? Would you say you're entrepreneurial? Would your husband, would Ranji say you're entrepreneurial?
SPEAKER_05Well, no one's entrepreneurial quite like Ranji, so I don't know another entrepreneur on the planet like Ranji. Yes, neither do I. Yeah, I would say I'm creative. You have to be entrepreneurial, you know, being an entrepreneur, but I am not like a rainmaker type of entrepreneur. I've worked for corporations and I I really like working for corporations, actually. I prefer that. But I think you have to have an entrepreneurial spirit about you because being an entrepreneur is also about being a leader, having a vision, seeing things two to three years down the road that other people don't see, or maybe they don't have the vantage point to see. And I think that's the most important thing about being an entrepreneur. So I do consider myself to be entrepreneurial. Um, not a rainmaker, but I do consider myself to be entrepreneurial in that regard.
SPEAKER_01I I actually think that's so important because I do think that there is a perception that we can carry of what an entrepreneur truly is. Right. And really what you're talking about is traits. Yes, it's giftings, it's skill sets. Yeah, that's right. And I I think that if if I were to only say I'm entrepreneurial, I guess in my own definition, I would think, well, I can't go work for somebody. Right. I have to do your own thing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I gotta be the founder or I've got to whatever.
SPEAKER_01But no, there's actually a space in corporate for entrepreneurial people with entrepreneurial skill sets and giftings to shine and thrive. Yeah. No pun intended. Yeah. Um did you ever have a season in your life where you thought, am I supposed to be an entrepreneur in that, in the in the sense of like not corporate, but start my own thing? Was that ever, was there ever a tension for you in that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I think it's a question that I've considered because I come from a consulting background, and so that would be that was one of the avenues for me, for sure, um, in the last year was should I do that? Um, and I and I could have, but I think what I like, what I'm good at is if I believe in the vision and the mission of an organization, I can bring my entrepreneurial skill sets, and that that's how I'm wired. You know, there's there's an infrastructure there, there's a team of people there that I can come in to help make things better. So it's not going into corporate and it's the same old, same old. It's actually, I'm drawn to organizations where it's transformation. It's about transformation, and you have to be entrepreneurial to join a role, join a join a company or take on a role that's about transformation, which is my new role, which I'm really excited about. It's it's not just running things, you know, as status quo, it's about transformation. So I love yeah, I never thought about the word entrepreneurial in my role, but I think it's about innovation, it's about future casting, you know, um, and building a plan. Um, and so for me it was an option, but this is again like when you know what you're supposed to do, what worlds you work best in. It's this is this is I think what I'm meant to do. But yeah, very specifically the types of companies that I think I'm drawn to.
SPEAKER_01I think the older you get, the more aware of the seat that you're best fitted in. Yes, yeah. And it doesn't mean that that couldn't change within an organization, but I do think there's something really powerful about finding the seat that you're supposed to sit in. Yeah. Because I love that your life then it's it's almost like optimizing for impact. Yes, yeah. Or fruit, yeah, yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Can we talk um for a minute about um how it has been being a corporate leader and a mom and raising kids? You've got you've got two kids that are how what's the ages?
SPEAKER_05So Sydney's 21 and Pax is 16. So they're like it feels like they're very old kids now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How how has that journey been for you?
SPEAKER_05So I feel that I've always known that this is what I wanted to do. I I was really privileged in that I I did take some time off and I was able to freelance and you know, when the kids were younger, so I I got the best, but I had to, I had to choose, like I sacrificed something so I could not sacrifice, but it was a choice, right? I made the trade-offs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Wanted to keep a little foot in the door while I was raising my kids. I wanted to be at home, you know, didn't want to be gone five days a week. And I and I will say that as a woman, as a mom, I think that's a privilege to be able to have that. Not everyone has that privilege. There are a lot of moms that have to work to help provide single moms, and and so I just, you know, I think that's so important to for us all to remember that. It's it's I was in a privileged position. I have an awesome husband who also allowed for this to happen. Um, and so for me, that was that was great. It was great for our family. Um, and then when I decided to go back full-time, that was the it was a consideration for me, you know. Um, but I will say my number one priority is always my kids and my family, always, you know. Um being able to support my husband, being able to raise my kids, that's always my number one priority. And I I don't think you can you can you can't do it all, but you can you can do different things at different capacities at different times, if that makes sense. So I grew up with um with my mom working, so I wasn't something that was unusual for me, and I think culturally it's it's pretty normal. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so I think it's it's what I know that I'm supposed to do, which makes me the best mall that I can be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean I yeah, I was, you know, my teen years, my mom worked three jobs. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like you have to. I think sometimes I feel like I think there's a tension of the two. And I think what's interesting about your journey is um it feels like some like you just said, like sometimes sometimes we can feel like we're sacrificing one for the other. And I think when um when you're in a position that you were in, what I love about your story is it's it's not like something was missed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's not like, well, your prime years of your life, you could have been building this career, but you were being a mom, so now you've lost that. It's like, no, you've yeah you you have the season that you were in, and then you fully have just skilled.
SPEAKER_05Um yeah, and I think that's the thing is that it's not linear, and that that I think is really important, is my own. I I think moms need to hear that. Yeah, yeah. Moms do need to hear that. And I think that like you you you don't want to compare yourself to other people that that do like for like I think as women we have to really support each other because a lot of women do go back to work full-time. A lot of people leave the workforce if they can, and I think that everyone should do what's best for their families, right? What's best for the and I think that comes back to down to your calling, what's your calling? Yeah. Um, and yeah, absolutely. And in in the grand scheme of life, I think everything, you know, if you commit it to the Lord, yeah, and you're and you're really aware, but it does mean that you like I've had to burn the candle on both ends. It's like your kids uh if they're sick, you know, you have to take care of them. I've been lucky to work for leaders who are in companies that are very supportive of raising families. I think it would be hard if I wasn't, and that makes me be supportive of, you know, not just moms, but also, you know, new dads and dads and you know, people that are raising kids by themselves.
SPEAKER_01So you you just mentioned faith. I'd love to kind of move into um how your faith has shaped the way that you make decisions and the way that you lead. Um do you you know, where you know, where do where's that line for a lot of people? Yeah, they say there's there's uh you know, there's there's Christian businesses and then there's businesses that are run by Christians or whatnot. You know, I think that's that's I think it's an always how has that been to navigate from the corporate world and how has your faith come into that world at all and helped the way that you lead or make decisions?
SPEAKER_05So I think it's not like I really believe that. I'd love your philosophy on this. I feel like I can tell you guys something. I don't know. I just I think that my faith and being a Christian, that's who I am, and that doesn't change. Like I don't I'm I'm the same person at you know church on a Sunday as I am when I'm in a meet. Like it's not it's it's it's who I it's just I'm who I am. And but you you you you can still make business decisions, you can still show up as a leader, and obviously have your faith. I think where it helps me is just knowing that God, my father, is always, you know, like I this is the last over the course of my career, you know, careers don't just go up, it's not like that there are low points, there are hard seasons, and we could spend a whole hour talking about those seasons as well, which is where you learn the most actually is from the low seasons and the hard seasons. But my my um philosophy or you know what I believe is that God is my provider, God is my defender, and God is my promoter. And I think in the corporate place, the fact that God is my promoter is something that because I am, you know, I don't know, type A is the expression, but I am driven, I have goals, yeah, and so I can tend like I can fall into the trap of striving and what about this? And I wanted to do this, and so then um I had like a season where my striving wasn't actually getting me anywhere, and God had to remind me that that He's my promoter, right? So that's that's really important, and so then when you let go of that, how that helps me in my work is that you don't get sucked up in trying to run like live the rat race because like you you can't actually do anything just in your own striving because God always has a plan, He's moving things that I can't even see why He's moving things, and that's happened to me so many times in my career. So for me, number one, my faith comes from the um ability just to be really um grounded in the Lord before all things, you know. It doesn't mean that I go into a corporate environment, doesn't make sense. I shouldn't, because you know that that's not what I should be doing, is coming in there. And um, I know my husband works for a you know many Christian organizations and you work for a church, and you know, like it is you have to be aware of your environment, you have to be aware of all the people in your world. But I think how I show up is based on who I am and God. Um, and that shows up through how I live, you know, how I lead with integrity and um and how I make decisions is through prayer. It's it's so much, you know, and praying before meetings, like it's like a cliche, but it actually makes a difference. I don't always remember that. But I think it's just knowing that God is my provider, my defender, and my promoter. Wow. Because corporate world can be pretty harsh at times. It can be a little, you know, I don't know, hunger games me, maybe. I don't know, little dummy dog, you know. And so you have to make sure that you guard that you don't get sucked up in that. That you have to, and that's easy to do. So then you have to just bring yourself back to, okay, but what what is the purpose here? Like it's nothing is to just, you know, succeed and climb a corporate ladder. It's a bigger purpose that God has.
SPEAKER_01Have you ever had any moments where the Holy Spirit has just given you sort of insight in a moment where you it kind of feels like you're you're like the um undercover. Yeah. And so, you know, Rangi, Ranji is uh he is h so Holy Spirit-led you know, in his day-to-day, and and that's that's a really big uh tool. Yeah. That that, you know, um do you find yourself in the same situation where the Holy Spirit's giving you wisdom or insights in a corporate setting?
SPEAKER_05For sure. Ironically, the thing that I feel he always tells me to do is to stop talking. Wow. It's like in a meeting, it's like, just stop talking, just listen. Wow. Just you know, like so he's my counselor, right? So that yes, I do I do have that. And I I I feel like God gives you wisdom, he gives you intellect, he gives you capabilities that that you should always be, you know, leaning into. It's there, it's not like you have to go get it, he's already given it to you. But I do feel like the Holy Spirit does. That's one thing I've noticed frequently, and it's probably when maybe if I'm reacting emotionally or if I'm reacting in a way that maybe isn't the best. That that is like one example where I feel like the Holy Spirit is always helping me there. And then I think also just you know, in all your ways, acknowledge the Lord. Like you can like everything, you know, everything. And I do pray for that. Pray for favor before I go into meetings and pray for um, you know, wisdom and clarity. It doesn't mean things always work out the way that you want, but they always work out the way that God wants them to work out, right? So um, so absolutely. Oh, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It it feels like you're um it feels like you you're saying things that are you're saying it so simply.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Like I'm simple person.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I just I just think that's worth noting because I think that uh we can overcomplicate these things. Yes. And I think we can fill a tension that doesn't need to exist. Yeah. You know, of your faith and your corporate job and your position in your leadership, yeah. Um, and in the way that it shapes. So I do think it's I I'm I'm fascinated at how simplistic you communicate it. Yeah. Because yeah, I think we need to we all need to we all need to steal that. We all need to do that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I because I think it's it's there sh there should be you're not putting on a different version of yourself, right? And to me that's about being authentically who God created you to be. Um and and that's to me that's really important. You know, he created me to be a business leader. Yeah. But I don't need to be singing hymns as I walk down the the aisle, you know, the the the corporate world to be doing that. It's it's who I am, right? It's it's how you know how he wants me to be, how he wants me to show up.
SPEAKER_01Do you have a philosophy on retirement? Like you said you like to work. We were just having conversations with our friend Leslie. Yes, yeah. Like I just like to work. Yeah you know, I I like going to work. Yeah. Um it it nothing in our conversation has been about compensation or obviously you get paid for what you do. Yes. But um, but it feels like everything you're talking about, you're not sitting here going, like, well, I do this job and I hate it, but it pays me really well.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01So I just do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You're lighting up talking about the things that you get to do, yeah. And the purpose that you get to bring and the culture that you get to set. Um so you like to work. I do like to work, yes. I do. Do you have a philosophy on I I ask everybody this because I let me just take this, let me first. I don't see retirement in the Bible. Yeah. I see rest, you know, yeah, but I think one of the biggest tragedies is some of we get to a certain age where we now have maximum life experience, yeah, maximum leadership skills, maximum, and then we're like, cool, I'm gonna just quit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's true. You know, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01And uh you're obviously decades away from even that age. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Maybe a little closer than what you might think, but you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But uh, you know, how do you think of that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's a really good question. I do love to work. I don't I'm not, you know, working so that one day I can retire. I'm I'm still building, I'm still able to be challenged and accomplish things. And maybe you haven't even thought about this at the level that it's Well, I'm I think my husband and I are old enough we we do think about it from a you know like financial standpoint. You have to think about it, you have to be prepared, you have to be wise. Um, but I don't see myself as ever retiring. I feel like I will have a hand in something at some point, you know, and I that's just the benefit of being married to an entrepreneur because he'll always have something for me to do.
SPEAKER_01I I can only see Rangy at 85, yes, still sitting down, still doing something somebody speaking life and vision, like creating a new company that no one's you know thinking about, like absolutely.
SPEAKER_05So I I love to work because it's what I love, but I also value rest and vacation. But you're right, like the retirement isn't talked about in the Bible. It's so interesting. So I do see myself as doing something productive always, and and this is the world that I love, and who knows what that will look like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. I love that. Let's let's can we talk about you and Rangy as like a powerhouse couple for a second. Um, you know, I would say sitting here with you now, I'm like, wow, um, I've known who you are for a long time, so I I've always admired you and Rangy, you know, as a as a family. I think you guys have inspired so many people, but you guys really have a such a unique gifting. You're you're both really uh highly gifted, highly talented, uh entrepreneurial, amazing leaders. Um how have you guys navigated this and this this idea of purpose and impact in your life as like a as like a unit, as a family, as a couple? Yeah. Um how do you guys support each other in what you guys are doing?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you. That's so kind of you to say that.
SPEAKER_01I really genuinely wasn't even trying to compliment you. That was just like everybody should know this is the same.
SPEAKER_05That's so great. I think Ranji and I are really unique, and I think he would say this as well, in that we both have really distinct callings, but we work so well together, and I think God brought us together for a reason. Um my like he's like my he's like amazing. He's like my business coach, mentor, leader, you know. Anytime I'm in a you know, like situation at work where I need wisdom, Randy's the first person I'll go to. And then what he does is um just he's an entrepreneur, right? So he does numerous businesses that I don't I don't work with directly, and that can be unusual because we both have fully fledged our own careers.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But um, but they work together because we we support each other, we're interested in what each of us does. We we we give grace for each other, like we somehow make it work, you know. If I'm I was traveling for work last week, I was in Switzerland for the first day of my new job, which is you know really great, but it was also really hard to be gone. So he he steps up and he does a lot of things during the so I think it's about you supporting each other and then navigating how to do that. And it's not like it's always perfect, but but we have to we have to support each other. There's no our family unit is is the most important priority, but I'm really grateful that my husband is so supportive of my career. If anything, he's like pushing me more than I push myself, you know. Not like pushing me in a bad way, but believes in the world. You're a cheerleader, champion. Yes, yeah, more than I I have I feel like I have so many people around me, my parents, my husband, who all um believe more of me than I probably do of myself. And so that to me is really important. Um, and so and Ranji and I have, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, you go through ups and downs, and it's not all like, you know, like constant bounty of you know, new revenue streams, and we've had plenty of, and I don't know if you know Ranji's story, you know, we've had a lot of downtimes as well, and I think it's really important to talk about that because that is that is life, and that is when um you have to sustain each other, you have to be there for each other, you have to figure out how to make it through those hard times together. Um, as a couple, I think when I was early in my career and when you know arrangers different businesses were taking different um different journeys. I don't know the best way to describe it. I know what you mean. Yeah, you know, we have to we have to change plans, and I think that's really important because I mean some people just have success upon success upon success, but it's not it's not true.
SPEAKER_01That's actually very rare. It's actually rare, right?
SPEAKER_05That's what that's what you see from the outside. So I think that um knowing that we you know we love each other no matter what, no matter what happens. And I had a recent career change where if Randy wasn't there, I don't know how I would have survived.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna make me cry. So so I think that's how.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's really powerful. Thanks, Randy. He's sitting over there. How many years have you guys been married?
SPEAKER_05Tw we always lose track now, so it's been like means a long time. So it's been a long time.
SPEAKER_0324 years this October. This October.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we thought it was 24 years last year because we were getting ready to celebrate our 25th and do a big trip, and now it's like, oh, we have to wait one more year for that. Yeah. So yeah, 24 years.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That is amazing. How how um give me some marriage nuggets?
SPEAKER_05Oh my goodness. Uh, I just you can give us marriage nuggets. You and your wife and your cousin.
SPEAKER_01Well, I just I think um a lot of the listeners of my podcast are entrepreneurial in spirit, creative artists. And I think that the there's there is a tension of um let me let me rephrase that. I think the power of a supportive spouse moves mountains in a lot of ways. Yeah. And um I imagine you guys have learned a lot over the years. Yeah. You know, do you have any any any any uh marriage advice there?
SPEAKER_05What marriage advice do I have? We can pull Ranchie back in if we need to. We can we can pull up another. I think it's what you said, like it's about being supportive of each other, knowing that God has the calling that he has. I think it's also about being honest um and uh understanding like there are like you know, uh to say that like it's just easy and you just have a conversation and it's just like I think that's false. Yeah, you know, there are tension points.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But at the end of the day, like where we are, you know, God called us together, you know, how we met and how we're together and what we're meant to do together, even though we have these distinct career paths, which I think it was like someone had a word that we would be like that. So I think it's it's knowing that there are tension points you have to talk through, you have to get through, you know, and that has happened for sure over the over the years, but ultimately, like we're all we got. Like it's Ranji and I here in Portland, Oregon, with our two kids. Come on. That that is you know, that is the most important thing. And no matter what, like Ranji has my back and I have his back, and I think that's really important. And I believe, like, I so believe what Ranji's mission is. He told me this before we got married. He's like, you know, you're marrying a pastor. I was like, that's fine, you're a lay pastor, whatever, you're actually a businessman. And I didn't really understand, actually. I was like, oh yeah, I did marry a pastor, even though he's in the business world. And so I I know that's that's who I wanted, and I really love that because when I see him, like he works long hours, I work long hours, and so not every every couple can. We're a little non-traditional in that way, you know. Um but I think as we get older and more mature, we have grace for each other, you have hard, you know, all couples do, right? When you're raising young kids and you're working, it can be it can be a lot, but we get through it because he's he's my bestie, you know, he's my best friend. He's the best. That's the best. You guys, I would say he's waving to me and blowing me kisses right now.
SPEAKER_01So I would say uh you guys are both pastors, is really is really the way that I'm I'm hearing this play out. Okay, I'm actually gonna stop us for a second because you've got all this wisdom on marriage, and Ranji's in the room with us, so I don't know who I would I I would be remiss to not pull him in right now and and and add his conversation because marriage doesn't matter. So, Ranji, you're actually gonna come take my seat right now, if that's okay. I'm gonna bring you in. Right. So can I interview Shine then?
SPEAKER_00Is that how I'll do this? I almost couldn't skip past this question without backing my wife up in this. And uh we both get emotional on these things, so um so I have to be careful um on just not losing the whole composure of the moment. But what I'd want you to know, and I'm really speaking to your audience, and I know you've lived this, so you're a living example of it in so many ways, but um the power of God bringing shine into my life um is uh she has a crazy gift that I still to this day don't think she fully understands about um being um and I'm speaking to the people who may be looking for this in their own life, right? She has faith when there's not a lot of evidence for faith. And when you're an entrepreneur, to have a wife that can kind of hold it together, I can't look at her because I will start bawling, you know. Um, to have a wife that can believe you to become who you need to become, not just who you are now, and then to have almost like a reckless abandon in a in the most mature and wise way, to just be okay with it, to have such a deep trust in who the Lord is. So, yes, to answer your question, um, if there's a thing I could answer, and I'm again I'm really trying to like take seriously the people that I know you reach, it's not that shine or Ranji was ever perfect for the other from day one of deciding let's do this life together, let's get married. Um, because we weren't. We've matured, we've grown, we've gone through lots of life experiences. But who you choose is your spouse absolutely sets your future. And that doesn't mean that you need to look for perfection or like really elongate a decision or not choose to decide because you're afraid this person's not the perfect one. But, and I'll speak because I'm, you know, I can only speak from my own point of view, but her character has to be kind of above reproach, her understanding of who God is, and then I lucked out with a woman who knows the word of God, like very, very few people I've ever met. Um, and so what's so powerful is those things are are resonant in her. She's not, I don't think she could try to unlock it. I mean, I like as in have it go away. It is just who she is, you know. And so when you ask her, I loved Cody when you said, man, it just sounds so simple. Like it's almost almost uncannily simple. And when someone has the word of God tapped in their heart as deep as she does, and has the faith, you know, so she's kind of believed me into be the husband that I have become. I know I'm becoming, still becoming. I'd like to say it goes both ways, but I'd give her more credit. I really would give her more credit that she has been able to deal with an entrepreneur's life. And she's not an entrepreneur, she's entrepreneurial. I love that when she answered the question, she said, Oh, I'm entrepreneurial, and she is, there's no question. She is not an entrepreneur. She builds health into structures. And today there is nothing more valuable in corporate America than someone who can build health into the structure. And so, um, yeah, I just wanted people to know, hold out for that man or that woman in your life that actually values the idea of many things can change. We have no idea what the future is going to look like. We don't know how people will earn a living or how money will be made in the future. But we can know that if the person we partner with has that deep peace that surpasses understanding, there's just nothing you can't do. And you are all of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay, I have two more questions. Okay. Um in no specific order, but I I I want to, I'm just so curious what the it's it's I'm so grateful for your time um and your story. Um but when you picture the mark you want to leave on people, what what does that look like?
SPEAKER_05That's a great question. These are great questions. Um you know the mark that I'd like to leave on people is that I was a leader and a friend that championed them and their success. I think that's what I want because that when I lead my team, that's what I want. I I don't thought about me. That's what's a certain leadership, right? Is I able to bring out through my leadership the best in other people and then in my friends the same, in my family the same, you know. Um so I think that's yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. And then um speak to the 21-year-old daughter that you already have. Yes, um, speak to the young women who who are ambitious and love to work and are creative and desire to to to do the things that you're doing at some level, whether that is in corporate or even entrepreneurial. Like what advice do you give to those young young women that are just getting started?
SPEAKER_05I love it. Well, the Indian mom of me says, get a great education. Whatever you whatever it is in, it doesn't matter, but you don't have to. It's it's not like a make or break. I would say really pursue um your strengths and work really hard and get great leaders and mentors around you from an early age. I think, like I said several times, like the best learnings I had were from leaders who cared about me, who spoke into my life and gave me difficult feedback. So I would say that as well. So I'd say one, find your passion, you know, um, find uh know that careers, especially 26, 26 and beyond. Um I'm gonna go into like HR speak, but skills and AI, like everything is changing, right? Everything is changing. So how careers look for the 20-year-olds of today will be very different, right? You know, we don't we don't actually even know, but I would say be flexible. But the grounding is find what you are uniquely called to and talented at, because everyone has unique strengths and talents, and you'll do the best work if you if you do the work that you are naturally good at. So for me, that is this world, and it wasn't to be an accountant, and so that changed everything for me. Um, maybe I would have still climbed the you know the corporate ladder as an accountant, but I don't think I would have had the level of joy that I have. So I think that's really important. And then I think um be really strategic about you know pursuing opportunities, be proactive, don't think that things are just gonna come to you, be proactive. I think that's really important. Um and and know that, you know, a a 30-year career, like whatever position I have today, I didn't have that 30 years ago. You know, like it takes time. There were down periods there, there were times when I wasn't moving up the way that I thought I should, but I learned something from every experience. And I think that's really important. I think getting critical feedback is really important, and that can be that can be hard, but like I said, like the biggest growth I've had have been from leaders who have given me feedback that's been hard to hear at the time. But then when you take it and you're like, okay, they might be right, let me adjust some things here, that's when I've had exponential growth every single time. It's come from like either a low period or from like hard feedback, and I think that's really important. The the exponential growth didn't come from just moving up, moving up, moving up, it came from like a low period. And I think that that happens in the Bible all the time as well, right? Like, you know, exponential growth comes from the hard times, and I think that's really important. Um, and I would say don't be don't be ashamed of being ambitious, you know. You you but be authentic to who you are. Like if you are a a young girl or a young 20-year-old, be authentic to who you are. Because that's the other important thing. We didn't talk about this, but that's something for me learning over the years, is I had one role where I felt like everyone wants me to be like this. I'm gonna try and be like that. And I failed at that because it wasn't how I communicate, it wasn't how I it just I was just I wasn't good at it. Like it didn't come naturally to me, right? Um, but then once I decided I'm gonna be authentic to my personality and who I am, one, it gives me peace, which is the most important thing in the world, and then two, it allowed me to be more successful. So I think that's really important. So if you're in a world, you know, I don't want to throw out stereotypes, but if you're in a world where it's a certain culture, if it's, you know, maybe like it's a high-tech world and some there are more male leaders and female leaders. Don't feel like you have to be like a male leader, bring in what you bring as a female leader, and and remember that. And I think that's really important because women have so much intuition and so much EQ, and in as the world changes, with technology changing and AI changing, I think EQ is the is gonna be the magic skill set of the future. And I think the great thing for for young girls is that you know, not everyone has high EQ, but but I think that you you can reach into that, and that's that's how God created you, you know. And um, yeah, and I I've been blessed with so many amazing female um peers and leaders, and you know, it's just yeah. Yeah there's so much I could say. I'd say just go for it. You can, you know, you can achieve anything you want to.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Shine, you are so wise. Oh, thank you. I'm so grateful to just have this conversation. And um I I have to ask you because I know every listener probably not, but I probably not wondering what I'm about to ask you. But you know, if you uh, you know, growing up in this area, it was always about like who did you know that worked at Nike that could get you into the Nike employee store. Oh right? That was that was always the thing, and it was always like if you knew somebody is great. If you knew somebody, it was like kind of a big deal. I remember Randy tell me one time, like, hey, right now it's kind of like you know, an act of Congress to get in, but I'm gonna see what I can do to help you out here. And um that that was always the hookup. It almost felt like a status to me as a kid, as a teenager, if I got the chance to go to the Nike employee store and get the 50% discount. So I have to ask you, because I know that at least I'm interested. Um, did you lose that status when you when you moved on?
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's such a good question. So Nike has amazing benefits. Really? It's such a good company for taking care of its employees. So I have a lifetime discount. Oh, but only online. Okay. And I can go to the employee store, but I can't hook you up anymore. That's the only difference. But I probably know someone who knows someone who can still hook you up. So just let me know.
SPEAKER_03I do, I have a lifetime discount.
SPEAKER_05That is amazing. I know. It's a great bit of it. It's after five years.
SPEAKER_01Secretly, as soon as you told me you were transitioning out of Nike, that was one of the first things that my brain went to.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm sure we can we can figure out a way. Oh my god. Yeah, yes. Very important question.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for taking the time with us. I cannot wait for my girls to listen to this episode and be inspired. Um, I've got a I've got a bunch of little uh little upcoming entrepreneurs and creatives and um and and girls that could literally run any of the companies I'm a part of. They they've got that in them. So I'm excited to just see them get inspired through your story and your journey.
SPEAKER_05That's the biggest compliment that you would say that, and I love how you believe so much in your girls and their abilities and their potential. I think that's really amazing.
SPEAKER_01It's it's one of the greatest things we'll do with our lives.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I agree. I agree. I love it. This has been amazing. You have uh great questions, I will say. Well, it's been fun. It's been fun.
SPEAKER_01This was part two of the Thomas family. Yes, that's right. So if you're listening to this, you you hopefully have also listened to the episode with Rangy, uh her husband, who is also an amazing individual. But thank you for just the deposit in the wisdom that you and your family have given my life over the years and uh and just pl praying blessing over you as you move into this new this new role and this new venture. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05Thank you for making a single family too. So thank you. Awesome. Thank you.