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Discipling Kids
How to Have a Family Passover Seder (With Dr. Christine Palmer)
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How can you lead a meaningful Passover Seder in your own home with your kids?
In this episode, I’m joined by Old Testament scholar, and mom, Dr. Christine Palmer to talk about how families can walk through a Passover Seder in a way that is both faithful and practical.
📎 Download the Family Passover Seder Guide: HERE
We discuss:
- What a Passover Seder is and why it matters
- How to include and engage your kids
- Simple, practical ways to lead a Seder at home
If you’ve ever wanted to make Passover more meaningful for your family but weren’t sure where to start, this conversation will give you clarity and confidence.
Welcome to Discipling Kids Podcast, where practical parenting meets practiced theology for families and ministries, discipling kids for Christ. I'm your host, Pastor John Scheller. I am so excited about today's episode. I have with me Dr. Christine Palmer, who's going to be talking to us about a Seder Passover meal and how to be doing that in our own households. Christine, thank you so much for being here today.
SPEAKER_01My pleasure.
SPEAKER_00And before we kick off, just to help our listeners get to know you a little bit better, so you have a PhD from Hebrew Union. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01That's right. A PhD in an Old Testament, really, it's Hebrew Bible and it's ancient background. So ancient civilizations and the culture at that time.
SPEAKER_00And you are a mom?
SPEAKER_01A mom of two wonderful children. They have both graduated college and they're they're doing wonderful things in the world. So we're we're just blessed. That's great.
SPEAKER_00That's great. And you've also recently published a commentary on Leviticus.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Ross Powell Yes, Leviticus in the ESV Expository commentary series with Crossway. And that has been uh just a wonderful labor of love.
SPEAKER_00And out of curiosity, how many women have published commentaries on the book of Leviticus?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Ross Powell As far as I know, and as far as my publisher has told me, I was the first one. And about a year later, there there has been another commentary out by uh Katie Davis from Australia. So as far as I know, the tally is two women, which I think is very important to have women also commenting on this portion of scripture because God's word to worshipers encompasses the whole family.
SPEAKER_00Amen. And I'm really excited to talk to you more about your commentary on Leviticus and understanding how a holy household is a witness to the nation. Right. And so stay tuned, listeners. We'll have that in a future episode as well. But for now, Christine, we'd love to hear about a Seder Passover meal. Um can you just kick us off? This was uh something that as a Christian family that your family practiced at home. Can you can you just tell us why you felt like as a mom, as a wife, why that was important?
SPEAKER_01Well, we uh we practiced it as a family because um it seemed that with with celebrating Christmas, we had the whole Advent season to prepare our hearts and to get ready to celebrate the birth of our Lord. But when it came to Easter, that was a little bit of a different story, and we wanted something, we were looking for a way to have uh our hearts better prepared when when our children were young. At the time, my husband and I were also students at Hebrew Union College, which is um a Jewish school. It's the first Jewish theological seminary in the United States, so we were steeped in that environment of uh of being at a Jewish school. And I think it was that that really helped me realize that when Jesus himself was discussing his imminent death, his sacrificial death on the cross with his disciples, that he did that using the Passover meal. How did he explain that he was going to be handed over that evening to be crucified and to be the substitutionary sacrifice for our sins? He did that using the Passover meal that of course Judaism had done for well over a thousand years. So it was a symbol that people did every year sitting down to a sacred meal that they understood, that they knew that was uh the national story of who they were as the people of God. And Jesus used all of these elements to explain himself and his work. So we thought, well, if Jesus did it, we might as well in our home, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's beautiful. And so it it may seem self-explanatory, but then just a little more specific on then why is that helpful for discipling kids?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell I think the meal itself is very helpful because it is incredibly participatory. There are elements within the meal that tell the story. Uh they tell the story of God's redemption. They tell the story through food and embodied enactment, and who doesn't love a good story? Children love good stories. And uh and the Lord, in fact, instituted this as he was taking his people out of slavery in Egypt. It's a fast-paced narrative, it's exciting. There are plagues, there is rescue, the Lord shows up as fire, it's amazing. But in the middle of all of that, in chapter 12, the pace slows down. And we enter this holy moment where the Lord says, I'm going to bring you out. And before I do, I'm going to prepare a table for you in the presence of your enemies, and that is the Passover table, the Passover lamb, and celebrate this in the years to come. And the the scripture itself says, so that you may tell your children, so that when your children ask, so that when they get curious and want to know why we are doing this, you can say, because this is what the Lord has done for me. So it's a catechism as well as a great meal. And the more you tell the story, the more you wrap that story around your children and the more they become embedded into it. And it's the story of God's redemption. So that's a story that needs to be told and lived. So that's uh that's why we did it.
SPEAKER_00Well, there can be, and we'll talk more about the elements of this dinner here in a moment, but it can be a little intimidating for some families approaching this for the first time. So just in your own experience, did you and your family did you do everything?
SPEAKER_01What we did was we tried to adapt. Um we we tried to adapt the Passover Seder. Seder means order, and it refers to the order of the ritual meal and the order of what was done that we thought came close to what Jesus Himself would have done. As is typical for a lot of things, um, over time you you have more elements that accreed into ceremonies. So there the way that a Jewish family would celebrate the Passover Seder has a lot more that has been added to it through the years than what Jesus would have done in the New Testament, although it's uh very similar. So we uh we tried to follow that closely, um, of course, adapting it for people who know the Lord. There are a lot of actually messianic uh satyrs out there. So uh I think that those are easy to find, to be streamlined, easy for a young family as we were at the time, and uh and maybe more true to to a closest to what was going on in in New Testament times.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell Well, thank you so much. So would you please walk us through what the Passover meal would be like for some of our listeners? Where are some of the elements and how should we begin to approach this?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Yeah, some of um I think one of the things that that you want to do as a family is make this a very special and memorable occasion. And however that helps, uh, if you don't usually have tablecloth, put down a tablecloth. Uh we we didn't usually have tablecloths in our homes with one with young kids because um, you know, there could be a lot of accidents, but tablecloths and candles and creating a special moment because uh I think children really respond to that, that they feel the atmosphere of something special, something different. And uh of course the the kids are are going to ask questions. A part of the Seder is that the youngest child is going to ask questions that begin with, why is this night unlike any other night? So you do want to make it unlike any other night. You want to create something special, a special environment. Um, usually there are Passover plates that that you could use that that guide you to the several elements of, this is before the meal, elements of the meal that help tell the story in a very embodied way. Uh you could you could have a Passover plate or you could just set some of the elements uh on a platter as long as you are telling the story in those ways. And uh of course it's very helpful to have some kind of some kind of Seder to guide you, to guide you through that. And that's uh that's how to set up the time and the place.
SPEAKER_00So something that's really exciting that's part of this the Seder order, this Passover meal, like you said, is the participation of children. And there are certain questions that children are are prompted to ask. Can you can you walk us through them?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Uh the participation, I think, is one of the best parts. And this is supposed to be the youngest child who asks the questions.
SPEAKER_00Real quick, just do you ever rotate that? I'm just curious because like, do you have children ever fighting over like, well, they got to do it last year? It's like, yeah, well, they're still the youngest.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it's it's a way for the youngest to feel special. Okay. Um this can help set the table or do other things or put the the blood of the lamb on the doorpost as we we tried to enact. But but there is uh such an acknowledgement that no one is too young to be part of the story. And that even as the youngest, that you have a really critical role in asking about this story. And it helps children to take their curiosity and uh it helps them to become more curious about other things that we do throughout the year as well. If you're teaching your children to ask good questions about the Bible, about the Lord, it doesn't just stay at your table. It's something that then you're training them to do about life itself and everything you do in life that you you just walk through your days finding the Lord in it. So I think it's it's wonderful to teach young children how to do that. And these questions are really leading you through the different elements of the Passover. Uh one of the first question is um on all other nights we eat vegetables of any kind. Why on this night do we eat bitter herbs? And the story begins by taking these bitter herbs, which is horseradish. And uh some people enjoy horseradish, but at a young age that is going to taste rather bitter on a child's tongue. Um, taking taking a little bite of horseradish and telling the story of being slaves in Egypt, of being uh an ethnic minority that was oppressed, of being a people who found ourselves away from our homeland, and um uh experiencing trials and suffering which we are apt to experience throughout life. So eating some of that horseradish and experiencing the bitterness. In our family, my husband was really big on this, and he would say, take a big deep bite because it was over 400 years of slavery. And he would tell our kids, if your eyes are not watering, then you're not experiencing the slavery of Egypt.
SPEAKER_00So that's knowing your husband, I'm actually not surprised.
SPEAKER_01That led to memorable moments. Maybe in the next years they didn't take as as big of a bite.
SPEAKER_00But um, only 200 years worth.
SPEAKER_01200 years. So then we would say that even um that the Lord knew this bitterness because he had promised to Abraham years before uh Jacob and his f family went down into Egypt, he had told Abraham, I know what's going to happen to your descendants. They're going to be enslaved, but I will bring them out. So even in our sorrow and suffering, the Lord knows. And he is uh in control of our circumstances, and he is uh working a plan of redemption. So we we do the horseradish, and then we tell the the kids, even as this bitterness is yet in our mouths, we know that our God is able to turn our sorrow into sweetness, and then we eat some of the sweet mixture that is chopped up apples and uh really some nuts and and uh nice dried fruits, and uh this this portion right here is is to resemble the brick and mortar, but it's sweet, and we we focus on the Lord transforming our tears into joy and our hardship into victory. Um the second question is about dipping herbs. Usually it's parsley. Um on all other nights we never dip herbs. And why on this night do we dip our herbs in salt water? And uh you dip your parsley in very, very salty water and you eat it, and you say, because we remember the tears that we cried in slavery, and our cry went up to the Lord and He heard us and He came down to deliver us. So kids, even if they're young, they they really know the taste of of hot, salty tears on their cheeks and and uh in their mouths, and they they know that the Lord will hear them. The youngest child will then ask about why are we eating unleavened bread? And you'll you'll know the matzah crackers uh that are that you see in the grocery store. Um and and the answer there is because we left in haste. Because we left eating the Passover meal just ready for God's deliverance whenever it would come. And he worked these ten wonders to set us free. He set us free with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. And then the maybe the father will will take the bread and break it into pieces and pass it around the table. So it's one one loaf, one one piece that is passed around. And here we explain that though, of course, the way that they made bread in that time, and for many uh many people who make bread in their home with a sourdough starter, the way that they made bread is by mixing flour and water and salt, and then they would take a little pinch of the loaf that they had made the day before and add it to that as a leavening agent. But in this situation, they left in such a hurry that they didn't add that, so their their bread was flat. But what that teaches us is that when you leave Egypt, you are a new creation. You leave the leaven behind. That whatever life you lived in slavery and oppression, as someone who was not, uh as someone who who didn't have any status in that community, you leave it behind, and this is a new beginning for you. And this loaf that is not made is a continuation of every other loaf that you've made. It's a new meal, it's a new day, and you are a new creation. Later the Lord will say that this month of the Passover is going to be the first month of the year for them. So this really underscores that this is something new. You're a new creation, it's a new day as a people of God. And finally, we get to uh on all other nights we eat any kind of meat. Why on this night do we eat only lamb? And we say it's because we remember the blood of the lamb on the doorpost that made the destroyer pass over us. And at that point we tell the entire story of the Exodus and that it took the the blood of a slain lamb that was applied to the threshold of the house. And the door of the house represents the whole house, and the house, of course, is representing who is in the house, the family. So we we huddle under under the blood of the lamb that makes us free and delivers us. So it's uh it's a wonderful way really to tell the story as we read it. We make a big deal about the different plagues that the Lord brought, and uh really talk about how it's the substitutionary death, that is the death of the firstborn that that really sets Israel free. Um the death of the firstborn, of course, being in judgment of the Pharaoh who killed the firstborn, of of God's own people, of God's son, as he says. Um but but in every other plague the Lord makes a distinction between his people and the Egyptians. Their cattle die, but the cattle of the Israelites live, uh they have darkness, Israel has light. But in this final plague, they have to do something whereas they didn't before. And in this final plague, they have to put the blood of the Lamb over their doorpost, meaning that we all we all really deserve the punishment of death and um and that we have to act in faith uh and to obey what the Lord has said to us and to come under that blood of the Lamb so that w we would be uh safe and that we would be forgiven, and this is a blood of atonement over the doorposts.
SPEAKER_00Praise the Lord.
SPEAKER_01Praise the Lord.
SPEAKER_00Question for you. Even as I was shopping for the lamb for our Passover meal, my wife and I are just practically asking, like, well, do we do we get the lamb with the bone in it? Do we do we not get the like help me, what should I be choosing here for the our lamb portion?
SPEAKER_01If you get the bone in it, whatever is easiest for you to do, it doesn't matter how you do it, really. Kids kids don't know. I mean, it's like it doesn't matter how we do it, as long as we just have joy and enjoy doing it and just really get in there. If you get the bone in portion, it's gonna be, I think, a little softer. Uh and it'll it will allow you to have to have the bone on your Passover plate as well, which is one of the elements on the Passover plate.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell And what should I do for the blood on the doorpost?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Yes, don't don't slay any lambs. That's that's uh you can we used uh red streamers that we would put on the doorposts and uh or or kids could actually take their brushes because in the scripture it takes us uh it says that um they had a bunch of hyssop that they dipped in blood and they painted it on the door so you can have like paint brushes with red paint on a piece of paper that then you you put on the door. So it is very interactive. Um and at at the end of this time, what we would do is that we would give a little plunder of Egypt, because when the Israelites left, they left with plunder, which uh which really shows us that this was a battle against the Lord and the forces of evil uh represented by Pharaoh. So the Lord uh w when when do you collect plunder? You collect plunder when you've won a battle. The Lord won the battle. It also is poetic justice in a sense that if um if the Israelites have been enslaved, building the cities of Pharaoh, and the Lord sets them free in order to build his kingdom. Remember, he says, uh, let my son go, set him free, let my people free, that they might worship me. So we are set free, not to belong to ourselves, but to belong to the Lord and to worship him and to give him all that we have. And so this plunder from Egypt, additionally, then is the payment of of what they hadn't been paid for their labors, which later shows up in in Israelite law that if you have someone like an indentured servant work working in your home, that you set them free in the seventh year, and then you give them in the way that they helped you prosper by the work that they did for you, you give them something back, you send them away with gifts and payment. So this was like the slaves being compensated for their labor, which they willingly and joyously gave to build the Lord's dwelling.
SPEAKER_00So the first time we did our Passover meals. The family, I was rather surprised at how many cups of wine as as the adult was like asked of us, and I was like, wait a minute. So what is your recommendation? Or what are like does it have to be wine? Can it be grape juice? Like what are some practical things that families can be doing?
SPEAKER_01It has it has always traditionally been wine, and the reason for that um is sometimes we think that we we have a certain taboo around wine that that we certainly the the scripture speaks very clearly against drunkenness. I want to affirm that. But in ancient Israel, there was no taboo over wine. It was something that was enjoyed and it was um a way to rejoice and to thank the Lord for his bounty. So if you if you rejoice at a festival at a celebration, you have wine. The the Mishnah says it's you know it's kind of one of the fruits of the land. Um the Mishnah says that even that was that was that's a body of Jewish literature. That's some of the earliest commentary on the Old Testament compiled around A.D. 200. Um, and it it reflects a lot of the customs from the New Testament. It's very valuable to read. But the Mishnah says, even if you are a poor person, you must drink four glasses of wine. Anyway, so the traditional way to celebrate the Passover is to have wine. But if that's something that you would rather not do in your family for whatever reasons really you have to abstain from that, then by all means grape juice. Of course, the kids always get grape juice.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for clarifying that. And are there any, you know, so you have you have this buildup, this anticipation, kids are excited, you have this meal, this high point. Is there anything after the meal to kind of continue the conversation? Any books or any movies that you would recommend for the kiddos?
SPEAKER_01We um we, you know, you I think you this is a celebration that can really grow through time. So you can do this with young children and they have a certain level of understanding, and as the kids get older, I think they have another level of understanding. Sometimes we might watch uh Prince of Egypt or like a nice movie like that. Um other times, as they got older, they really wanted to know how this related to the Last Supper of Christ. So I think the beautiful thing about this is that you're building layers of understanding every time you're telling the story. And when our kids were young, it was a riotously good time. And as they got older, they invited friends because they wanted their friends to experience this and participate in this. Uh and that's actually scriptural, because in Exodus we are told that if there if if you have your lamb, you you pick out your lamb on the tenth day of the month of Nisan, and then you have it in your home until the 14th day when you slaughter it. But if your own family can't consume the lamb, because it's almost like a sacrificial meal, it's a covenant meal. Um so if if your family isn't big enough to consume this lamb, then you invite your neighbors, you invite others around you uh to become your family that night and to eat it together. So as uh as our kids got older, they would they would invite friends and we would celebrate that together, which is I think the more the merrier. That's uh it's an opportunity for catechism in your home, but it's also an opportunity to practice hospitality. And uh if you're if you're a little if you have some trepidation about doing this alone for the first time, do it with another family from the church. So we would do that. Um traditionally the Seder ends with singing the Psalms, the Halel Psalms, Psalm 117, Psalm 118. We've had times of of worship and praise and singing afterwards. So um it's a time of great joy is the Passover meal. And the very next day, if you then attend a Good Friday service, you have the opportunity to enter into a more somber and reflective season of worship as you consider the cost um of the Lamb of God, the Son of God who takes away the sins of the world.
SPEAKER_00As we're thinking about Holy Week as an entire week, Palm Sunday kicking us off. So where would this Passover meal fall within that week?
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Very good question. Um so that would fall on on the Thursday, um, and and many churches uh uh do commemorate that through like a Monday Thursday service where there is foot washing and they're focusing on the aspect of the meal where Jesus washes the feet of the disciple, the disciples, but actually the Passover, what they celebrated on the you know, at the time that he was washing the feet was the actual Passover meal. So it would fall on a Thursday. Um we see that uh more clearly, I think, in the Gospel of John, uh, who begins, so the Passover is as bookends for him. He begins in chapter one with Jesus uh identified as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and then he bookends that with at least five chapters on on that night of what happened on that night, the the mysterious mystical night of the Passover. So um Jesus celebrated that a day early with his disciples to explain to them what was about to happen the very next day, and also so that uh when he was dying on the cross, that was at exactly the same time that the lambs were being slaughtered at the temple. So you have no doubt whatsoever that he is your Passover lamb, that he is crucified and hanging on the cross, as in the temple what they're doing is that they are slaughtering the lambs. And all of the trials that that happened, those happened the day before, and there are little details in the gospel about how the high priest and how when they went to the Romans that they just they they didn't want to enter the home because they didn't want to become impure since they would be celebrating the Passover the very next day. So um so Thursday is a wonderful time to do that.
SPEAKER_00Well, Dr. Christine Palmer, this has been so helpful. Are there any other final thoughts you'd like to share with us?
SPEAKER_01Um I think uh as as the as your family grows, as the children get older, I think it's wonderful to think that you are preparing them for taking communion. I think making those links between the Passover meal and um the new meal that Jesus institutes in in his body and blood are very important ways for children to continue to understand uh what we do in church, uh, that this is the new covenant meal, and celebrating the the covenant of the Lord, just uh and and embracing our role as covenant storytellers, as parents, I think, is uh an encouragement I want to give. You're meant to be a covenant storyteller, so use every opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Praise the Lord. Well, you have created a really helpful document for families that I'm gonna post in the show notes. So as a listener, you can click on there to access that document to help you walk you and your family through a Passover meal. Uh Dr. Palmer, how can we how can our listeners reach you? Do you have a faculty email or anything?
SPEAKER_01I do, yes. I would be happy. Um I'd be happy to answer any questions or be in communication. My email is C for Christine C Palmer at Gordonconwell.edu.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
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