Discipline as Discipleship (Part 1): Rethinking How We Discipline Our Kids

What if discipline isn’t just about correction—but about discipleship?

📎 View the Pyramid of Discipline HERE:

In this episode, we begin a short series on how to think about discipline as a key part of forming our kids spiritually. Rather than focusing only on behavior, we explore a more intentional and biblical framework for discipline.

Drawing from Psalm 23, and insights from Justin Earley’s Habits of the Household, as well as The Whole Brain Child we walk through models that help shape how we approach discipline in the home.

We’ll cover:

• A different way to think about discipline
• Biblical models that shape how we discipline
• How discipline fits into the larger goal of discipleship

This is Part 1 of multi-part series on using discipline as a tool for discipleship in the home and classroom.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Discipling Kids Podcast, where practical parenting meets practiced theology for families and ministries discipling kids for Christ. I'm your host, Pastor John Scheller. In this episode, we begin a multi-episode discussion on how to use child discipline as discipleship. I'll be sharing why children need discipline and provide helpful models parents and caregivers can consider when disciplining a child. Be sure to check out the show notes for helpful links on visuals discussed. In the upcoming episodes, I'll be interviewing Jen Powers from Tried and True Parenting, who offers many practical and helpful considerations that you won't want to miss. So, why do we need to discipline our children? Because children are born sinful, they have, as Augustine summarizes, disordered desires. Parents and other adult authorities in a child's life are appointed by God to help a child reorder their desires towards loving God and following his path for their lives. Parents and caregivers are very much like shepherds, shepherding the hearts of their children. This reordering of desires and showing a child the way to go is a discipleship relationship. And one of the key tools for forming disciples is discipline. As discussed in the book Habits of the Household by Justin Early, our English words discipline and disciple are so connected and similar, it can be hard to tell them apart. And as much as they are connected in sound and appearance, so they are connected in practice, meaning you cannot create or personally become a disciple of Jesus, someone who is becoming like him by following his path, without discipline. Thankfully, we have a model of how to use discipline for discipleship in Jesus, who disciplines us as a loving authority to form us into disciples. And in his chapter on discipline, Justin Early says that all discipline needs to be established upon loving authority. And when I think about an example of a loving authority from Scripture, one example comes from Psalm 23. In this psalm is a shepherd lovingly shepherding his flock down the right path. And so I'm going to be polling from Psalm 23 to help inform this discussion. That for many of us, the terms authority and discipline, they can bring up a lot of past hurts because many of us have experienced a kind of authoritative discipline that was not from a place of love. Rather, there was, it was like a gap between what an authority may have wanted from you and what you actually needed. For example, an authority could have wanted you to be quiet, but what you needed was to be heard and understood. You see the gap there? And that could have come from parents, coaches, teachers, pastors, or other figures of authority. Perhaps you were disciplined not for your own benefit, but rather for the selfish convenience of the one disciplining you. Perhaps, as Justin Early points out, you were seen as a problem that needed to be managed rather than an image bearer who needed to be discipled. If that's you, I'm sorry you had to experience that. But may you come to know that kind of discipline is a warped version of the loving discipline God wants for you. In the household of God, the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son whom he receives, as we see in Hebrews chapter twelve, verses five through six. With God's plan for you and for your children, there is no gap between what he wants and what you need. The path he has is the right and best path for all of us. But as the Lord affirms for us from Isaiah 53, verse 6, all of us like sheep have gone astray. Each of us has turned to his own way. And this really speaks to what I mentioned earlier about our disordered desires, meaning there is often a gap between the right path we need and the wrong path we think we want. You know, we think we want one thing, but the Lord knows we actually need something else. If you consider Psalm 23 through the lens of a good shepherd disciplining his sheep, we see in verse 2 sheep who need to rest after they've grazed, but they don't want to. And so the Lord disciplines his flock by making them lie down so they can get what they need. If you've ever wrestled down a child for a nap who you know needs one, but they don't want one, yeah, it it's easy to grasp the gap in view. Discipline both physically guides us back to the right path and also trains our hearts to want the right path. So the goal of our Lord's loving discipline is that over time there develops harmony between what the Lord knows we need and what we want. And that's what we want for the children under our care. We want them to have rightly ordered desires that desire the path the Lord has for them and to walk in it. Within the chapter on discipline and the habits of the household, Justin early provides the pyramid of discipline. So picture a pyramid in your mind. At the base of the pyramid, for its foundation, is loving authority. The very pinnacle and top of the pyramid is our goal for discipline, which is reconciliation. The parts in between are different habits of discipline that parents, teachers, and caretakers can implement in order to reach reconciliation. These habits are like tools in a similar way that a shepherd has tools to discipline and guide his flock, like his rod and his staff. To help illustrate how this pyramid of discipline works in action, I'm going to share a parenting experience where my wife Roseanne and I were able to use some of the tools described within it to help our family reach reconciliation. My family and I had traveled to Arizona recently, and we had the chance to explore Antelope Canyon. Now, this particular slot canyon is located on Navajo territory, and it receives over something like a million visitors a year. And it's probable that you have seen photos of it from screensavers or advertisements or music videos without knowing that's where it came from. And in order for us to go, I had to book permits with a certified Navajo guide months in advance. It was expensive, but Roseanne and I were pumped and excited to go. So the morning of the tour, we loaded up as a family into this big four-wheel drive tour truck, and we drove further out into the desert. And it was rocky and sandy and very hot. And we arrived at the bottom of a cliff face, and to the untrained eye, it just looked like a solid wall of rock without a canyon. And as we unloaded from the truck, we told our two kids, who were five and six at the time, to grab their jackets. But of course, they didn't want them. After all, it was a hot day in the desert, but we insisted and they refused. Remember that gap I was talking about a moment ago? Well, that's exactly what was happening. So the tour group was moving forward, and so Roseanne and I finally said, fine, and the kids left their jackets in the truck. So once we approached the rock face, it wasn't until we were probably like ten feet away that the entrance to Antelope Canyon became evident because it was tucked away around the corner of the rock. And even towards the entrance, you could see within the narrow canyon the dramatic waves in the sandstone formed from years of wind and sand and floods and rain. And it was breathtaking. But also at the entrance, the temperature suddenly dropped. It was like walking into cold air conditioning from a hot summer day. So while the canyon is narrow and winding, it is open at the top, and you can see the blue sky, and dramatic rays of sunlight, they they shine down to the bottom of the canyon floor. And while this bright light allows for you to see where you're going, it also creates dark shadows in the corners. For many of you, this is probably bringing up to mind verse 4 from Psalm 23, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. We often view the valley of the shadow of death as the path you end up on when you've taken a wrong turn. Rather, it is itself part of the right path our shepherd guides us through. Since shepherds didn't herd their sheep at night, the valley in view in Psalm 23 is probably a narrow slot canyon, like the one my family and I stood before. And as you might expect, my kids were suddenly cold and freaked out. And one of them said, I don't want to go in there. But remember, to get to this point had required a lot of planning, time, and money on my part, so I'm thinking, Yes, you are. And I was feeling the pressure because the tour group was beginning to move forward while my child was physically digging in his heels. How many of you have been in a situation like that? You know, maybe it wasn't Antelope Canyon but the grocery store, or you were at an amusement park, or maybe it's when you're trying to drop off your kids at your local children's ministry. And as Justin Early points out, in moments of disobedience like this, as a parent, I might wrongly think they're doing this on purpose. Which as a parent can quickly bring out anger within me, or I might think, this is a personal insult. After all, they know how hard I worked to get our family to this point and how much it cost me over the last four months, which can quickly build up in me as a parent bitterness and even sometimes a desire for revenge. If that's what I'm thinking, then I'm viewing my child as a problem that needs to be managed. And so my first tool for discipline will likely be the shepherd's rod. And now, while I don't have physical rods that I use against my children, I do have metaphorical ones, like changing my tone or my physical posture. And while it might get me the desired action of them moving forward, which is what I what a purely disciplinarian wants, it would also potentially get me a bitter and resentful child for the next 45-minute hike. So maybe that's not what I want or what my child needs. So still viewing my child as a problem, another tactic I can use is pulling out some sugary snacks and bribing them by saying, hey, you know, every 10 steps you take, I'll give you this sweet treat. And that might work. And another option I have is my phone. I could just play a cartoon for them or give them a game. You know, it doesn't matter that they're at the threshold of one of the world's geological wonders, just so long as they are distracted and quiet. You know, they won't notice the painful cold or the scary shadows if they have a screen sedation. The reason I'm so personally aware of all these responses and tactics was because I have experienced them and used them. So if you're feeling uncomfortable by me listing these out, I'm with you. But in Psalm 23, the Good Shepherd doesn't beat his sheep into the valley. He doesn't bribe them, nor does he distract them from the physical pain and discomfort. At that moment, Roseanne and I we paused and took a deep breath, even while the rest of the tour group was beginning to move forward. And so the first tool within the pyramid of discipline you could begin to use is that before you discipline your children, get into the habit of pausing just for a moment. I know there is always an exception, but an exception proves the rule that you generally have more time to pause than you think, and it doesn't have to be long. But get into the habit of even taking a deep breath. And you can involve prayer in that these pauses can become prayer pauses. In another book, Justin Early recommends breathing in and out scripture as prayer. For example, as you breathe in and breathe in, you'll hold that breath for four seconds, and it can look like it can sound and look like this. The Lord is my shepherd. The simple act of deep breathing, it can potentially diffuse an angry response. And the next tool and habit within the pyramid is body language and understanding. So rather than towering over our kids, we got down on their level and took their hands. Roseanne or I, we gently asked, Why don't you want to go in there? And just by asking a question is an attempt at understanding. And they told us they were cold and it looked scary, which they were probably willing to admit because we weren't intimidating them by our tone or body language. Justin Early further says that we should use body language in space more than words and threats. So Roseanne and I we took off our jackets and put them on our kids, and we said to them individually, I'm here, you're safe. Now, this is an example of discipline from a loving authority. While many of us think of discipline just as consequences, notice that a consequence wasn't even necessary in this form of discipline. Now, in some instances, consequences are absolutely necessary, and consequence is included in the body of the pyramid of discipline. But remember, consequences for a child should be timely, relevant, and age appropriate. For example, if a child steals their sibling's toy, a relevant consequence might include they lose that toy for the day, rather than losing pancakes the next morning, which is neither timely nor relevant. While the consequence wasn't necessary at that time at Antelope Canyon, it is important that children understand consequences, because if they don't, then Jesus' death on the cross, which was him serving the consequence for our sins, yet that's that's not going to make any sense. So within the pyramid of discipline, just beneath the pinnacle and goal of reconciliation is confession. Confession serves as an acknowledgement of going the wrong way and a need to repent, to turn back so that reconciliation can be reached. At that moment with my kids, a confession wasn't necessary, but in other instances of disobedience, a confession can be a simple apology. And you may begin to notice that this pyramid structure is intentionally similar to our relationship with God the Father, the biblical storyline of God as a loving authority who seeks reconciliation between Him and a broken creation. So as we're disciplining children, there are often opportunities to remind children of this biblical storyline as they themselves are being disciplined and working towards reconciliation. And it's a good reminder that while Jesus' authority is loving, God's word affirms in Hebrews chapter 12 that for the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant. You know, calling it love, it doesn't take away the pain and discomfort. But as the verse continues, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. So just because the discipline our children are experiencing may not be pleasant, doesn't mean it isn't fruitful. Well, as a family, we experienced reconciliation and that we traveled lovingly and relatively peacefully on the right path into Antelope Canyon. And even there in the depths of the shadows and the cold, I mean, my goodness, we saw some of the most beautiful and awe-filled things about God's creation. At one point, someone asked our guide, you know, how was the canyon discovered? And our guide said that it was discovered in the early 1900s by a young girl, a shepherdess, who guided her flock in there to escape from the heat of the day. And in Psalm 23, the sheep travel through the valley without fear because they trust that they are in the loving presence of the shepherd. But in order to be a loving authority like our shepherd Jesus, there is a big hurdle we need to address, which is that our bad experiences with discipline often often inform how we discipline those entrusted to our care. Even with this knowledge of the pyramid of discipline, we can often still slip into habits of discipline that are more about just controlling behavior than it is forming disciples. Why does this so often happen in our lives? Where we think one thing, but we do another. Well, it's partially because of how God created our brains. God designed our brains to have different parts with different jobs. That our brains have different parts is actually a gift from God because we can then multitask very effectively. For example, when you tie your shoe while also talking to someone about the day's schedule, you're actually using two different parts of your brain at the same time. Now I want to focus on just these two parts, the upper and the lower part. As discussed in the book, The Whole Brain Child, the authors say, imagine that your brain is like a house with both a downstairs and an upstairs. The downstairs brain is more primitive because it's responsible for basic functions like breathing and blinking, or impulses like fight or flight, and for strong emotions like anger and fear. But your upstairs brain is where things like thinking, imagining, and planning take place. It's also the place for sound decision making and planning. It's where we have control over mature emotions like self-understanding, empathy, morality, etc. The downstairs part of your brain, it's mostly formed from birth, but the upstairs brain isn't fully formed until about your mid-twenties. Well, if your downstairs brain is primitive and your upstairs brain is highly sophisticated, in which part of the brain do you think habits occur? Yeah, it's actually the downstairs part. So tying my shoe becomes a habit because I don't have to think about it anymore. I just do it. This takes place in the downstairs part of my brain while I can simultaneously talk about the day's schedule using my upstairs brain. It's pretty cool. Until the habit becomes a bad one. Like when someone habitually yells at their kids, even when they know another tactic will be better for everyone. Disintegration is the non-biblical word for describing when you know something is wrong, but because of habit, you do the wrong thing anyway. Oftentimes, the word for that is sin. Now remember that gap I talked about earlier? As followers of our shepherd Jesus, we want our upstairs and downstairs brain working together so there is no gap between knowing and doing what is right. Many of us as parents have established habits in our downstairs brain that we learn from those who disciplined us, or we developed on our own, and they reveal themselves when we're trying to discipline those entrusted to us. Now, a great thing about our brain is something scientists have come to call neuroplasticity. Essentially, neuroplasticity means that the brain itself is plastic or changing. In a similar way that plastic can be molded based upon what it experiences, so our brain can be molded and changed based on what we experience. And when we pay attention to something, it reshapes the way we respond and interact with our world. Basically, you can change your brain. You are not stuck with your current habits, but through attention and focus, you can create new ones. So as you begin to implement the pyramid of discipline, give yourself grace when you slip back into old and unhelpful habits. They are ingrained in your brain, and it will take time to reshape your downstairs brain. As much as we as adults suffer from disintegration or a gap between our downstairs and upstairs brain, so do our children. Earlier I mentioned that as parents, we can often wrongly think that our children are misbehaving on purpose. But if we think about that moment with my children before Antelope Canyon, even though they knew we were there to keep them safe, their fear, which comes from the downstairs brain, was flooding them so they couldn't even access the upstairs portions of their brain to think clearly. So remember, the downstairs portion of the brain, it's formed from birth, but the upstairs isn't fully formed until someone is in their mid-20s. So my five and six-year-olds, they still have some brain development that needs to take place. And it would be wrong for me to get angry when they can't logically process like I can because they don't have the physical ability to do so. In the book Whole Brain Child, a way to help a child shorten the gap between their upstairs and downstairs brain is by engaging, not enraging, which is similar to Justin Early's approach of seeking understanding, or as others call it, connect before you correct, as Roseanne and I tried to do there in front of Antelope Canyon. But in a culture like ours that's always pressured for time, this approach takes more time. But is time well worth taking and shepherding our children down the right path in a way that's loving? So as parents and teachers, consider the pyramid of discipline and the model we have in our good shepherd Jesus when you are faced with moments of discipline. Rather than something to shy away from, realize that these ordinary moments of discipline are opportunities for forming disciples. Thank you for listening to Discipling Kids Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe so you can receive the latest updates about new episodes and other events.