Discipline as Discipleship (Part 2): Practical Tools for Everyday Parenting (with Jen Powers)

What do you actually do in the moment when your child or student is overwhelmed, disrespectful, or struggling with big emotions?

In this episode, I’m joined by Jen Powers from Tried and True Parenting to continue our discussion on discipline as discipleship. We move from framework to practice, talking through how parents can respond with clarity, consistency, and intentionality.

📚 The Connected Parent  by Karyn Purvis and Lisa Qualls

We discuss:

• The importance of parent self-assessment
• Practical scripts you can use in real situations
• How to respond to big emotions and disrespect
• Approaches that keep discipleship—not just behavior—as the goal

If you’ve ever felt unsure how to handle difficult moments with your kids, this episode will give you practical tools you can begin using right away.

This is Part 2 of a 2-part series on using discipline as a tool for discipleship in the home.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to Discipling Kids Podcast, where practical parenting meets practiced theology for families and ministries discipling kids for Christ. I'm your host, Pastor John Scheller. Well, I am super excited for today's episode. I have with me Jen Powers from Tried and True Parenting here in Cincinnati, Ohio, which is a great organization and been around for 12 years. So, Jen, please, please tell us your role in starting that company and its mission and purpose here in Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Sure. Thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here. Yes, Tried and True, we um we have been around for about a dozen years this fall, actually. And our heart is to offer hope to parents. So we know that parenting doesn't come with any roadmap or how-to handbook. And our heart is to equip parents with research, evidence, and faith-based tools to support their kids across a child's lifespan.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

So in your in your model at Tried and True Parenting, even if you go to the website, there's a lot of mention of common sense parenting or trust-based relational intervention. Can you just give us a summary of what those mean and how they are applied in your workshops and classes?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Aaron Powell Sure. So Common Sense Parenting was our original model that we adopted back in 2014. It's out of Boys Town, Nebraska. That model is filled with easy-to-learn, easy-to-apply techniques, which is why it's called Common Sense Parenting. A lot of it parents are probably already doing, and it's just leveling up their intentionality a little bit. For example, I was raised where there it was, don't do this, stop doing that, without teaching an alternative appropriate way to behave. So it's consequenced on problem behavior, but never really told what to do instead. And my parents did the best they could. They were they're excellent caregivers. But this model is all about this is the problem behavior, and kindly asking them for a redo and practicing the right way. So we know kids have motor memory for the wrong behavior. We want them to have motor memory for the right behavior. So that is really a golden thread between both models. Trust-based relational intervention was built for children who've endured trauma of some sort. However, as we found over our 12 years of tenure, that relation that model, forgive me, is so connection-oriented and really mimics the heart of the father that we've found you get traction in any relationship, really with anyone. Obviously, parent and child is what we're talking about here. But both have the heartbeat, the essence of connecting before correcting, and an equal balance of structure and nurture in your parenting.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Here at our church, we have a lot of different families with a lot of different backgrounds. So can you just walk us through, you know, why is it important for a child to feel safe and connected?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Absolutely. So really any core longing of a human is to feel seen, heard, valued, safe, connected. Yeah. That's paramount for anybody. So I think when we um are able to look at a child with that in mind, that should be the motive, the impetus for any way we engage them. So and it's also so disarming. I mean, if you think about um in our adult to adult relationships, if we feel safe and connected, we can kind of power through anything. And so that is the essence of human relationship. And I think that's the essence of the gospel and what Christ offers to us in a relationship uh with him. So if we can model that and mimic that in our engagement with kiddos, whether they're in our own house or um who we're serving in children's ministry, we're we're offering the gospel, we're offering Jesus to those kids too.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

What can we also be doing if if we're preparing ourselves or the environment um to be connecting with a child to create an environment that feels safe and allows for connection?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Sure. So I mean, so much of that I think is prayer on the front end. While I might not know who's coming to me or how they're showing up, what a child has come from as they transition to me, the Lord does. So if I if I pray for some wisdom from the Holy Spirit to help guide me and receive this child in a way that promotes connection, um that's just being proactive. Um and then responding to them once they arrive. In terms of the physical environment, um, I think expectations are a huge thing. So children know what sort of uh environment they're stepping into. So I've I've seen children's ministries where they offer preview days. So new families get to come kind of scope out the environment before they show up and they're at the classroom door and they're meeting not only their new teacher who's going to be responsible for them and caring for them for the next hour, but they've also had a preview of the space. And also some really good ground rules that are engaging and fun. For example, a lot of our um families and really organizations that we partner with adopt this three phrase, this three script um, they're not rules, they're sort of like boundary lines, guidelines for how we do relationships in this room. And they are stick together, no hurts, have fun. And they're broad enough to be used. So let's say a kid darts for the door. Hey, Billy, are you sticking together? And engaging that child playfully, reminding them of um it's sort of like a course correction. Oh, wait, I'm darting for the door. No, I'm not sticking together. Maybe that might disarm them in such a way if I'm engaging them playfully that they turn around and come talk to me. Um, no hurts can be no hurts um, like heart hurts and no physical hurts. We keep our body uh and our words, we ha we have show regulation and self-control toward that end. And then have fun just helps if we do those things, if we stick together and we have no hurts, then we have fun. Um it and and that's actually an uh such a high value here in children's ministry or in our classroom or at home that we're gonna name it as such and and put it as part of our parameters because we're a classroom or we're um a Sunday school or we're a family that has fun. So usually you get you get some buy-in with kids too, with that last one of having fun.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Well, it sounds like it's consistent and predictable.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yes. And it can translate across different settings, yeah. And most kids they don't need a lot of explanation with regard to those three rules or boundary lines or expectations. Um kids usually fall in sync with those pretty quickly. But again, I would offer to you to to allow families to know that in advance because this is something you'd want to teach to, you'd want to spell it out to them, and you'd want teachers to also be using this language with one another. Um so that it's kids ex they know it, they feel it, they hear it, but we can't hold kids accountable to something that they don't really understand or feels too ambiguous or conceptual for them. So the band of teachers or the band of Sunday school volunteers would have to adopt that language first for it to really get some traction.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

So let's say we're just having a full-on meltdown. What is a way for a parent to first approach or a volunteer teacher to first approach this child?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Sure. So I would suggest in the beginning, you want to see if they can pace with you with a simple instruction. So you want to determine is their executive functioning online? And I think you talked about this in your last episode, that difference between the upstairs and downstairs brain. Yeah. So if they've what we call flipped their lid, meaning they only have access to that downstairs brain, which is where fight, flight, and freeze are housed, right? Our amygdala response, we need to sort of test out to your point, is this a meltdown, a temper tantrum, or is this like something's not firing and wiring and they need a break? Um, so I would suggest a simple instruction of can they even come to you when called? Um, once they get to you, can if can you say, um if you said, would you like a drink of water, or can I offer you a tissue? And they are like out to lunch, or they're so upset they can't, they're not even hearing you. Yeah, I would offer to you then maybe we're in a can't situation and not a won't. Now you have to kind of get past, like, is this a stubborn will I'm working with? So maybe you try it again, repeat the question, or offer a different instruction. Something really cool the way that the Lord fashioned our frame is you can often tell if a child's pupils are extremely tiny, or if they have a super accelerated heart rate, but yet their body is like at rest. Um, you can you can those are signs of hypervigilance, and those are signs that you're also in a can't and not a won't. Um if they're if they're if they can't, you know, lock eyes with you, yeah, but that's another sign of a can't and not a won't. So they're actually, as you're asking them a question, study their frame. Are they able to track eyes with you? It can if you if you offered some connection, put your hand on their chest. Uh do they have a rapid heart rate? That means that that wise leader isn't leading. Executive functioning is online, and no matter how much you talk to them, how many questions you pose to them, they're not going to be more likely than not, if you're seeing those visible signs, they're not going to pace with you. Um, and you may need to remove them from the environment and get them to a place to where their their nervous system, their central nervous system can calm down. Yeah. Offer them a cup of water. Don't ask them if they want water, just give them a cup of water, give them a pack of crackers. Um, that's also disarming to a kiddo. Always hydration, snack, some movement can be disarming to a child. So trying to get that wise leader, this is what we call our executive functioning, our upstairs brain, back online. So then you can review okay, what was the impetus or the catalyst to the meltdown? Why are we having big feelings? But until you can see that they are able to regulate a little bit and their central nervous system is back online, we really can't get upriver with kids. Because you will not get headway unless you're softly connecting with a child and asking for hands and eyes. We don't want to demand hands and eyes, especially for kids who come from traumatic history histories. We cannot um, it's just not something we can demand. Oftentimes, trauma unfolded in relationships where we are demanding eye contact. So we just have to be sensitive to that, and also some kids just get nervous when they have to make eyes with an adult, especially in someone who's not their caregiver. So we ask for it. Um and if not, if if they're if they're unwilling or resistant, we can still crouch down to their level, um, even sit beneath their eye level. So I will often sit what we call crisscross applesauce, so I come under a child's line of sight, which can be super disarming to a kiddo and get you upriver a little quicker. Um, so I would offer to you always asking, never demanding. Can I please have your hands and eyes? And if they're unwilling, which some of that might be shame, that's the leading there. Some of it might just be a child's natural. No, I actually don't know you very well. I'm not gonna offer you my hands and eyes. But there's still so much you can do with what we call engagement strategies out of TBRI, our trust-based relational intervention. 90% of communication is nonverbal. And engagement strategies such as taking our hands out of our pockets, having an open posture in front of them, sitting ourselves beneath them, um, things like that that can totally disarm a child before you mention one word.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So I'm hearing, yeah, getting down on their level, being but even as I'm thinking like my tone, as I'm addressing them, I'm not using a verbal rod, it sounds like, but asking for that that invitation.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Absolutely. And softly, softly and slowly speaking with as few words as possible. Because you're sort of you're sort you're doing everything you said about like looking at their frame. You're trying to perceive what's happening with them in their physical body. You're trying to see if you can get the train back on the tracks by posing a question or giving an instruction. You're doing all that level of insight um and orientation in seconds while yourself trying to stay calm in some pretty messy behavior, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

What if I find myself as a parent or a volunteer teacher, and I'm really I'm finding myself upset and bothered by these big emotions. How do I begin to do what are just some basic beginning points to do some personal introspective searches of like why am I reacting negatively to these big emotions?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Oh goodness. I love that question. I think that's a really brave question, a very honest question. And we want to be able to be what we want to see. So if we're finding ourselves getting poked by bothersome behavior, I think that is a beautiful and honest first step to go there with the Lord and just ask. Ask him, why am I being poked by this? Why am I over-responding in a situation that doesn't warrant XYZ? Yeah. Right? And doing that honest brave work with the Lord is beautiful. And I think once we do that, oh my gosh, we're gonna be able to show up as our best self with our kids more often than not. And time takes time.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Well, let's move on to moments of disrespect. In the book that you recommended to me, The Connected Parent, it says, anytime a child demands something or asks for it disrespectfully, this includes screaming at you, that request must be denied, period. So I when I read that, it it kind of struck me like, wow, I don't know if I've been taking that as seriously or been as consistent as a parent or as a teacher. So can you just help us understand why this is so important?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yes, I can. And I I think we want to always um give the opportunity for a child to say what they need, but in a kind and gentle way. So if we allow these moments of demanding, of speaking disrespectfully to happen to us as a caregiver or teacher, whoever, we're encouraging the wrong behavior. So I think we can cut it short. I think that we can um stop it in its tracks if we uh amp up our structure a little bit and look at the child and say, I can see you want the markers. Try it again with respect. Try asking again with respect. So you you notice my tone is pretty strong. Um I'm still trying to limit my words. I'm honoring the intent, which can help disarm a child and actually get the train on the tracks for a redo. Um I'm saying what they want, right? Um if you want the markers, ask me with respect. So we we want, we have a no-tolerance policy for disrespect. This is not permissive parenting. And back to my point from when we first started, my caregivers, again, were amazing and did the best they could, but they just simply shut behavior down. And that's not um, it's just not honoring to a child's development and growth. We want to, we want to shut the disrespect down a hundred percent, but we also want to offer them a redo and a chance for getting it right. Um, because on the heels of that, we can make sure there's reconciliation and connection by saying, Oh great, Jimmy, um, thank you for asking me with respect. Sure, you can have the marker markers. And now you can tell my tone has changed, my cadence has changed, I'm more playful with the way I've said it. And now we have connection again. We're reconciled to one another.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

But talk to me about redoos, but how can those be done well?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Redos um shift our motor memory, right? And they give a child an opportunity to have success. And they give us a moment to heap on praise after a child practices the right way of a behavior. So uh, but I would honestly even take a step back, and this is what we do in class. We teach to a parent or a caregiver or a teacher redo first, and we model that first to a child because we want to be what we want to see. So we have to begin um well for some people it's beginning, but we have to be willing to own our side of the sidewalk. We have to be willing to own our mistakes and confess that to a child when we've gotten it wrong. Perhaps our tone was off, perhaps we overconsequenced, perhaps um we're a little too firm or a little too harsh. So before we teach a child to redo the wrong behavior, we gotta be willing to model that and be what we want to see for them. So I if this is a new concept someone's adopting in their classroom or their Sunday school room or in their home, I would say spend a few weeks prioritizing parent redo and then teach to the child. Okay, so this this moment of you snatch that toy from your sibling. Oh, I could see that you want a turn playing with that toy. And we are gentle and kind. So let's give it back and let me hear you use your good words of asking for a turn to play with a toy. So they ask for the turn. Great! Good job, Jimmy. Thank you for using good words to ask your sibling to play with a toy. So it can be within 30 seconds we seize, we we catch it low. Obviously, we're not doing a redo when you know they're swearing and we're punching holes in drywall, right? We're not we have to like consider the moment and what is most profitable for a redo. In a situation that I just described, well, the the biggest value is getting calm, right? And something that's quite escalated. But in these little moments that are sort of one-offs, you can invite a child to um do a redo playfully is gonna be the way to do that. If they're like, I don't care about your redo, this is dumb. Well, now we are leveling up our structure and pulling that child aside. So um you just have to consider the when and the how. But it's a beautiful tool for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

So I've heard you say a few things like let me s like let me see your eyes, or try that again. And that that sounds like a lot of the scripts that were recommended in the Connected Parent.

unknown 20:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Can you talk to us about what a script is? Sure, absolutely. And give us some examples of those.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

I love scripts. Um so scripts are short phrases um to sort of prompt a child to course correct on their own. Um, they also keep us as parents from lecturing or saying the same thing again and again. So, for example, my kids used to come home um from school and toss their backpacks, kick off their shoes, maybe remove a binder for me to sign. And it like the kitchen was mayhem. There was stuff everywhere, and it drove me bananas. Um, so I I would be like, you know, pick up your hang it on the hook, put your coat away, put your shoes on the shoe shelf. And I was getting annoyed and irritated with hearing my voice over and over again. So um I would teach to these live scripts, because sometimes we don't know how our, I mean, back to our example of we don't know how a kid's showing up. There could be some frustration in the kicking off the backpack of the coat and the shoes. There could be a I'm home and I just want to relax or whatever, but there also could be, well, I just got in a fight with my teacher, or I just got a feeling grade on my test, and so I'm bringing all that home. These scripts help us. So if I were to say to my son Judah, um, hey, focus and finish. I'm c I'm asking him to co to course correct. So I've given I've given the instruction once hey, I need you to pick up your backpack, put your shoes on the shelf, hang up your coat. And he's, you know, still pulling stuff out. I don't know if he's blatantly ignoring me, disrespecting whatever it is. I can say, hey bud, focus and finish. Focus and finish. Focus and finish. But for the the kiddo that incessantly asks, Can I have a snack? I want a snack. I'm so hungry, I need a snack. Two two seconds later, I need a snack, I'd like a snack. Um and I've already said, hey buddy, um, we are 10 minutes away from dinner. You can you can grab that granola bar and put it by your plate for an after dinner snack, but I'm saying no to a snack. And they're incessantly asking, or maybe it's going outside, whatever it is, but your answer is no, you can use the live script of asked and answered. Hey buddy, asked and answered.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Asked and answered, Judah Powers. Asked and answered. And do you see how it like they're short and sweet? They keep me from flipping my lid and the frustration of as a parent saying the same thing ten times over. So I love focused and finished. I love asked and answered. Those are probably my two favorites.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And one that I got a lot as a child was use your words.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yes. I think we have to be careful about that one. Because that I I would offer to myself and to everyone out there, um, the way that you say that, your tone, it could come across as authoritarian authoritarian. So use your words. Um it can come across as shaming. So if you use that life script in a playful way, hey buddy, I want to hear what you want to what you have to say, but use your words. So you just have to be careful of your tone and your cadence with that, um, how you say it and in what situation, because you want to elicit a response that moves a child toward change behavior. So I I know my tendency is to lead more with structure than nurture. I have to be really mindful about my nurture. So I probably wouldn't use that one because I'm bent to being more structure-oriented. I could hear myself saying, use your words. You know, that sounds very different than, hey, I want to hear what you have to say, use your words.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, and I have found myself, even as you're talking, where I have slipped into a like an annoyed tone. Like, are you asking or telling? Or it's like, well, I could have asked that in a question. I could have done that differently. Um, others that I I really enjoyed or have have used is listen and obey, and then try that again with respect.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Stay in your lane is another good one. Okay. So for the sibling that wants to help you co-parent to keep your focus on the one child and be able to quickly say to the other, hey buddy, stay in your lane. But again, all these life scripts, if you were to adopt them, you have to teach them at a neutral time. Because if I said that in the moment to my other child stay in your lane, they'd be like, What do you mean, stay in your lane? You know?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

What about compromises? So like I know of the script, would you like a compromise? When should we be using compromises?

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Hmm. That's a great question. So compromises are beautiful because they offer the child a little bit of power and control. When you could see, I keep saying train up falling off the tracks, but it's true. You can kind of foresee a moment escalating very quickly. So a compromise is beautiful because it teaches to a child's four things we want kids to do as they grow into independent, sturdy humans. Okay, so to give care, receive care, to act independently, and to negotiate their needs. So if we're doing this well, this idea of using compromise for that four skill of negotiating needs, um, we're offering them in moments where there's there it's not consequential. We're not um they're not big things, big hills to die on. So for example, my son, um, I've given him a break after school, he gets 15 minutes on a PlayStation game. At the end of that 15 minutes, he's in the fourth quarter of Madden, right? And he needs a few more minutes to get this game to the finish line. He might say, I might say, Judas, time to wrap it up, buddy. The timer went off. 15 minutes is over. And he might ask me, hey mom, can I have a compromise of five more minutes to finish this game? If at all within my power, I'm going to say yes. Because I don't want him to know that he has to use manipulation or control to be heard by me. I also want him uh to build the skill of negotiating his needs appropriately. So the thing about compromise is just like life scripts, you want to teach to it in advance, use it at a neutral time. We're not gonna offer compromises or let them ask for one when they're belligerent and super disrespectful. And we want to say yes or at least offer hope for the future. There'll be a time where I can't give Judah five more minutes on PlayStation because we're late to grandma's or we're late to the dentist. And I'll say, you know what, that was really good asking. Next time I hope I can give you a yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

And that was something else that came up in the book. It said, say yes whenever you can. Absolutely. But realizing there's there's limits to that.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Absolutely. There are times you've got to fly out the door. Or they what they ask for, um, you can't deliver a yes on, but you can wrap it with hope for the future, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Well, and even with all of these things, they require time. And so to to do them effectively means we have to slow down in our households to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

It requires attunement, it requires intentionality. We often tell these incredible caregivers in our classes this sort of blunt truth of we're either paying now or we pay later. So we're either promoting unhealthy habits or we're promoting taking the time to teach to and establish healthy habits. Um rather than undo them. Like five years down the pike where we're we've reinforced a negative behavior for so long and now it's harder. And we all know it's harder the older they get, it's so much harder to undo unhealthy habits. So but it does take time, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

And with that, not just taking more time to address these habits, what are just some self-care that a parent or caregiver can do so that they can be at a place to be able to do these things with the right tone, the right posture, um, the right behavior?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Oh, that's so good. I love that question. Um One of the things I've learned so much about in the last couple years is window of tolerance. We're all approaching any given day, any given moment, with either a narrow window of tolerance or somewhere on the grid from no window of tolerance to I'm wide open, I feel rested, fed, I'm connected with my spouse, whatever it might look like. So I think um adopting that mentality and having some deep self-awareness of where my window of tolerance is helps me in any, it helps me in my marriage, helps me with my coworkers, certainly helps me with my kids. Um, so self-care. If I'm coming into a weekend with a very narrow window of tolerance, then I'm negotiating my needs. I'm saying, I need an hour with the Lord, I need a nap this afternoon, whatever it is, so I can show up as my best, most healthy self for the people in my world. That requires a level of attunement to your own self and where you're at at any given moment. I mean, a lot of us, we have the beauty of of parenting with a co-caregiver. Some of us don't. So if we're single parenting, who's your who's in your network of community? Who could you ask to help support you to take your kids for an hour or half hour while you walk around the block, right? So what is it that's life-giving to you that's going to widen your window of tolerance so that you can show up as your best self?

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Whenever I read these types of books or hear these kinds of talks as a parent and someone who works with children, they can be very empowering, but can also bring on guilt of when I got it wrong. Probably a lot of listeners are are feeling that even now. What would be your your words to them?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, for sure. Oh gosh, we've all felt that. It takes the wind to blow, right, for us to feel some measure of parenting guilt. So I would say, welcome to humanity, right? Um we all will feel that, I think, on this side of heaven. And I think it's a it's good fodder for conversation and prayer with the Lord. Like what if that what if this is appropriate guilt, right? Because the reality is like our sin nature gets in the way, and we're gonna um we're gonna do this wrong. So what if this is conviction by way of the Holy Spirit? And what is shame? Shame is the voice of the enemy, right? So um discerning between that first, because there are opportunities where my tone was too heavy, where I came in way too strong, and I have to own that. And that's the voice of the Lord, right? Prompting me to repair and repent and have reconciliation with my child. And then there's shame that you're too much and not enough. Well, you really blew it as a parent, right? What we know about the Lord is his his voice is kind and his nature is good. So we've got to sift out those messages that we're hearing. Um and toward that end, I would say in those moments, what's the next right thing? What's the next right thing to um to prioritize connection with my kiddo? Is it a parent redo? Is it me going to the Lord and saying, Man, I really blew it, Lord? Well, that's always first, right? Before we go to our kids, we're going to the Lord. Or maybe it's Lord, undo this message of I'm a failure as a parent. What do you have to say in place of that?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Creating your own scripts in your mind.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Yes. Yes. And that's like mercy, getting my face in the pages of scripture and reminding myself of who I am and whose I am. That's the landing pad. I don't know how we parent without the Lord. People parenting, leading a classroom. It takes a village, right? We need our kids need an army of people to speak into their lives. We're we shouldn't be the only voices in their world. And we need an army of people to do this well. People that will love us where we are and also call us to more. So I would say surround yourself with people who you feel safe with, back to these like core needs of humans to feel seen and safe and connected and known and valued. Who is that for you? Find one person that you have some relational tenure with, some trust equity with, who will not just commiserate with you on really tough parenting moments, but who actually love you enough to hold you to a higher standard and gently call you to more. I think I'm a better mom because I can think of two people right now who do that for me, who are in the trenches with me and they'll listen to my hard day and they'll also say, Hey, did you reconcile? Did you go back and connect? And I don't hear that as shame. I hear that as, wow, they love me enough to ask me the hard question, and they're so for me, and for me and my kid. So I would say ask the Lord for who that is in your life, and then keep that relationship thriving. Stay connected with them. Let the Lord use them.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Well, Jen, thank you so much. How can people get connected with you? That's through triedandtrue parenting.com.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Sure, yeah. We have um a link on there where they can send us a message if they're curious and want to learn more about what we do. But yeah, or they can reach out to me. Uh, my email is Jen at triedandtrueparenting.com.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Sure, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Thank you for listening to Discipling Kids Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe so you can receive the latest updates about new episodes and other events.