Choices Over Chaos I Interview with Evenor Pineda

On this episode of Speaking Our Minds, we sit down with Evenor Pineda from Manchester PAL to discuss the power of mentorship, youth development, and creating positive opportunities for the next generation.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Health Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Speaking Our Minds Podcast. Where health is more than healthcare.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Welcome to Speaking Our Minds Podcast, where health is more than healthcare. This podcast is provided by the City of Nashua Division of Public Health and Community Services. I'm your host today, Savitri Horrigan. I'm the behavioral health strategist with City of Nashua. And I'm here today with Evanor. Welcome, Evanor.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Thank you. I feel very welcomed in this space, so I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Bienvenido, bienvenido.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

And we also have Rita here today. Welcome, Rita. Good morning. How are you today, Savitri Evanor? Welcome. Very good. I'm very excited about this topic today.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

So today we're going to be talking about the Choices program at Manchester PAL and how it aligns with trauma-informed communities. Evanor, would you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do

Evanor’s Path From Prison To PAL

SPEAKER_04 1:05

in the Choices Program?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Absolutely. So uh good morning to all the listeners and to everybody present here today. My name is Evanor Pineda. I am the Intervention Services Director for the Manchester Police Athletic League. I'm the co-creator of the Choices High Risk Youth Mentoring Program, which we piloted two and a half years ago. Following several years of volunteering with the Manchester Police Athletic League, following an extensive stay at the New Hampshire State Prison for Men, where I served 15 years. And once I was released, I was connected to the Manchester PAL through a probation officer who's actually the current chief pro officer in the city of Nashua, Bill Duffy. He was a corrections officer for a long time. That's how I met him. He was a part of the security threat group at the prison. And he kind of set himself apart as far as his approach with dealing with the inmates and the gang-involved inmates. So he really earned our respect. He wasn't trying to turn us, you know what I mean? Like to work against anybody else, but just establish relationships just to keep guys safe behind the walls. So basically, once I was paroled, you know, he had the opportunity to see me grow behind the walls. He ended up moving on, becoming a corrections officer, but in many cases the corrections officers come or the parole officers work overtime in the prison just because of a shortage of staff. So he got to see kind of like these, you know, where I was and how far I had had grown. And he started planting those seeds of like, hey, you know, when you get out, what do you, what do you plan on doing? You know, and do you have any interest in giving back to the community? And I'm like, absolutely. I mean, I'm already doing that on the inside. I started volunteering on the inside. I mean, I was a part-time barber, I was a peer supporter, I was on the hospice team, I was the chair and co-chair of the inmate communications committee, which we later changed the name to Resident Communications Committee. Uh so again, he saw he saw my growth.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

That's amazing. That's a lot of like wonderful work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Thank you. And yeah, so once I was released, you know, we reconnected. And he wasn't in Ashware yet, but you know, he did reach out. We connected and he made the introduction to the then operations and development director at Manchester Powell, uh, Jana Stevens. And she was piloting a program called Futures. So that was a skill and mentoring program or group that met weekly every Wednesday for an hour and 15 minutes. And it was experiential learning, speakers with uh lived experience. So that's how I got my break at that time, and you know, made several guest speaking appearances, and then I was extended an open invite, and it just became like a no-brainer for me. I just every Wednesday was showing up, hanging out with the kids that morphed into a co-facilitator role. Later, they actually they actually offered me a part-time position. And at first I was kind of like, I didn't want to muddy the waters and and you know, accept money for something I wanted to volunteer to do, but they're like, Well, we have this money and we're gonna lose it if we don't use it. So, and we want to honor your time, and you've already shown us that you know you're committed. So I I reluctantly accepted getting paid. That led

When Diversion Changes Overnight

SPEAKER_02 4:00

to basically in the state level, what happened was there was this juvenile probation transformation. So, what that did was a you know a valid attempt by the state to further divert kids from the system. However, that there was no backup plan of like what does that look like? So, okay, you're diverting kids from the system. So, where does the onus lay on? Who's responsible for helping these young people? You know, they're not gonna be at the uh Sununu Youth Services Center.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

So basically we we had to step up and we felt the the the impact immediately. So the juvenile court diversion program historically was a first-time nonviolent offenders who would participate in the program. After following the transformation, now we had repeat offenders, we had violent offenders, and there was an incident that took place in central high school in which a dozen kids from rival gangs got into this huge brawl in the middle of the school. And so we had a dozen kids refer to us all at once, and we weren't equipped for that, you know. But we felt like we had to do something. And what we did was we made space in the group. We immediately referred the kids to the group versus waiting for the diversion panels because diversion panels are once a month. And the way it fell, it would have been like another three or four weeks before these kids would have been in front of a panel. Exactly. And and our fear was that this could escalate. And so what we did is we contacted all the parents, we had all the parents come in, we did this like mass orientation, we had this kind of show of force. You know, the officer that's assigned to PALs typically aren't in uniform, but it was like, hey, you know, wear the uniform today. And we had the juvenile probation officer, one of the juvenile probation officers show up again, just kind of a show of force. And then I also recruited one of my friends who also had recently been paroled, kind of kept cut from the same cloth, same background, someone I trusted and knew would make a huge impact with these young people. And we saw success right away because we had these, you know, 12 kids sitting in our group and they weren't fighting, they weren't at each other.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

They and they were the ones that had been fighting each other. Yeah, I was gonna ask, like, what is what was that like to navigate a group dynamic like that?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Challenging. I mean, it's a little scary as a you know, but at the same time, it's not unfamiliar, it's not uncharted waters. I've I lived that, you know, and you know, in my childhood and and you know, I grew up in Nashua, which

Growing Up Brown In New Hampshire

SPEAKER_02 6:10

again, I love to say this because people, there's a misnomer when it comes to New Hampshire that they're like, oh, New Hampshire is this super white state, you know, it's low crime rate. Yeah, I mean, yes, the majority of the population is white. Yes, we do have a low crime rate. However, you know, there is the you know, the tree streets. I mean, that's the other side of the tracks. And, you know, not to further the the stigma when it comes to this tree streets, but historically, that's the low-income families, you know, single-parent homes, large minority population. And, you know, and I grew up in that, you know, so you know, born and raised in Nashua, you know, in the 80s, you know, there was maybe a you know, a few dozen, you know, Latino families, not what it looks like today, you know what I mean? It's very diverse. You feel more welcomed, you feel more a part of the community. But back then, especially for me, where I feel like I I forget the terminology is like white white passing or something like that, right? So I felt like, oh, I'm light skinned, so I can pass.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

And but that's how I feel like people have treated me that way too.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. But at the same time, I was quickly, I remember nine years old being called for the first time, you know what I mean, and not even understanding what that meant.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah. I wanted to pause there for a minute. And because I am a Nashua resident as well, I'm a woman, I also have experienced similar, you know, senses. And and I work with low-income families as well. And I work with single moms and moms that have boys that are similar ages that you were, you know, experimenting similar situations that you were saying, that live in that particular neighborhood. And I'm not just trying to like focus on that neighborhood. I'm now trying to, you know, talk about families that are experiencing similar situations in general because we know a lot about Nashua because we live here, but now we're trying to expand it to maybe other neighborhoods because this podcast can be listened in other areas that might be experiencing similar situations. I wanted to ask you, you know, how was your experience as a nine-year-old boy like growing in that particular circumstances and maybe not having the resources available to expand your opportunities as a brown boy and not recognizing that the system was built that way. So you were just having less opportunities to take advantage of maybe the resources that maybe boys from other nationalities or white boys could

Language Loss And Identity Pressure

SPEAKER_00 8:40

have.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

You know, so I feel like my experience may differ just a little bit from from others that grew up around the same time just because of where I was living at the time. So I was on the the north side of the river. So I was on Auburn Street, you know, I went to Amherst Street School, where again, like I I didn't feel like I stuck out, but I did stick out. I mean, I remember my mother telling about, you know, going to kindergarten, she's like, you didn't speak any English and they didn't know what to do with you because we didn't have an ESL program back then. Um I think I may have been one of the first ESL you know classes at Amherst Street School. But to but to your point where, you know, it was even at nine years old, there was like this identity crisis. You know, I didn't I don't know how I fit in, but I was I grew up in a very in a diverse family. My my you know, I didn't grow up with my biological father, so it was my my first stepfather. My first stepfather was African American. His family was actually the first black family in in Nashua that moved to Nashua. That he was the first African-American to graduate from Nashua High School when it was still on Spring Street.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Uh so I I learned a lot from him, you know, because he was very well educated, you know, college educated, stuff like that. But at the same time, he, you know, at the time we didn't recognize it, but he suffered from you know mental illness. And because of that, our home life was very tumultuous. It was like walking on eggshells, you know. I don't know who would show up that day, you know what I mean? The the happy go lucky, you know, you know, let's chum it up, or the strict by the book, you didn't make your bed right, or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And then the belts, you know, I mean, and just the answer to everything, the consequence was always the belts. So, so it was it was very tricky because again, I felt like I had unfair expectations of me at school. And and I and I and I need to plug this in as that that I lost my Spanish because my my steppop's first my mother is like, you guys don't speak any English, you need to learn English. That is the land, you know what I mean, the the language of the land, that's how you're going to advance. So that's cool, but at the same time, like we were barred from speaking Spanish.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

How did you feel about losing your maternal language? Was that something shocking to you as a boy, as a teenager growing?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Absolutely. It it added to that, the you know, I exasperated the identity crisis because I'm a Latino and I feel like more Colombian than American because of my mom and my family. Like, I don't know anything about my my my Nicaraguan heritage, you know what I'm saying? For but for my father, but my Colombian side, I'm you know, my mom and her sisters, my aunts and my cousins, you know, and they're all still, you know, the majority of Roman Colombia. I only have, you know, one of my tia's lives up here. Uh, and she just came up a couple years after 16, 17 years of that process with the with the visa. Right. But yeah, it just added to that where I'm just like, okay, not only you are you a brown kid, but like you don't speak Spanish. So it's it's you know, in our community, I think we're our our own worst enemies sometimes. And it's cultural and historical, but you know, definitely there's this like, oh, you're not even really Spanish because you don't speak Spanish.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Definitely you will say, and I want to emphasize this so bad because it's important for me. Building, building a case here is important to me. And I don't know your opinion. I want to know your opinion. It's important to me as we grew up, as we raise our kids to emphasize in our roots, in our own people, our own personas, and where do we come from? So if we lose culture, if we lose language, if we lose the way we, you know, the the place we come from, and language is part of it, then you know, we're not necessarily building up on, you know, raising a person. So I want to know your experience and you're telling me that that definitely was something that really influenced in your in your life.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Oh, yeah. Negatively. Oh, absolutely. And I would say more so when I became a teenager, because then I overcompensated for my lack of Spanish. And there was this this point in my life where again, like we're we're race and and where I fit in with everything, like and this and this is gonna sound funny, but I remember there was this show on PBS called Ghost Rider, and that was my first time seeing, you know, they portrayed some some gang members in New York, and they were all Latino, but they were all my complexion, you know what I mean? And they're using the N-word and they're using all this other stuff, and I'm just like, I'm you know, and they're saying white boy and this and that, and it's just like, huh, you know what I mean? So I am different, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not, I'm I do not fall into this this category. And it empowered me in a sense, you mean, to to try to grasp, you know, grab hold of of my my roots. And again, it was further exasperated because my mother was an orphan, you know what I mean? Like her and her sisters were all orphaned in Colombia, so we didn't have that connection to like a grandma, grandpa, none of that stuff. You know, we don't know our our history, our family history. So it was just a lot of guessing. And and and me, I was always into history, and more so like I guess you could say I'm a hispanophile, you know what I mean? Like where I looked at it from that that that lens of the you know the Spanish experience coming to the Americas and the conquest and colonization, et cetera, et cetera. That's all I had. It was it was definitely like a rabbit hole that I that I explored.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

I I think it's really amazing, like everything that you just shared. It's it resonates with me a lot too, with when it goes when it comes to like growing up passing, light-skinned, white passing, Asian American. I had like I knew more Indonesian when I was younger, but I had some family members that didn't want us to speak it or anything, so kind of similar. But the thing that I wanted to point out was that you mentioned the seeing yourself represented, that media representation representation for ghostwriter. And I totally feel you in that, like seeing yourself represented means so much. And also when that limited representation is kind of a negative stereotype. And I think bringing it back to like what your work is at Manchester PAL, how incredible it is that you are living positive representation for these kids. Like that's that's huge. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yeah, no, no, no, absolutely, and that's I I feel like that's what makes the work that much more meaningful

What The Choices Program Really Does

SPEAKER_02 14:40

to me and purposeful, not only for myself, but to to my community. When I say my community, like I mean there's an intersection of so many communities, right? The you know, my you know, the first generation American, being Latino, being uh a male, you know, heterosexual, you know, the pro-ly, all these things.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Coming back to the choices program, which I understand stands for creating hope, opportunities, inspiring change, excellence, and success. I love that title. It it reminds me a lot of the Hope Framework Healthy Outcomes for Positive Experiences for Children, which is addressing that adverse child experiences. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that program looks like and how people can get more involved in that?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

And I'm glad you brought that up because how we came up with the name originally was being able to recognize that the the young people we're working with are autonomous, they're super independent or seeking more independence. We want to honor that. And just, you know, it's it's the whole cliche of you can't, you you can bring a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink. It's the same thing with these young people. And we want to recognize that we're not trying to duplicate or replicate anything any of the other adults in their life are doing. We're we're we're just peers, right? We're not trying to be big bro, we're not trying to be pops, we're not, you know what I mean? Like we're just we're a peer. We're your equal. However, we're older and we've we've been through the the mud. And so it's shining a light on on the on the different pathways and and why you have choices. You have choices. This is your choice, whatever you go decide to do going forward. So as far as services, what the program looks like is uh basically we have multiple uh referral referral sources. Primarily it's the juvenile court diversion program, it's uh juvenile probation, it's the juvenile courts, it's the school resource officers and in-house. You know, we'll have families that just are struggling and they'll come and and they're just desperate for help. Not surprised, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't cease to amaze me how how much families are looking for resources and for connections, and honestly, even law enforcement, like law enforcement, like I always frame it this way that we are the equivalent to controlled fire, fighting wildfires. You know, so the mentors with lived experience, credible messengers, you know, we're the controlled fire. And the young people, they're the wildfire. And we're, you know, in this case, police are asking for our help. They're like, hey, it doesn't even matter, right? Because, you know, I think of this one individual, you know, he's a Dominican and Italian, grew up in Chelsea, Mass. I mean, but he's like, you know, I grew up in the hood and you know, like, you know, gang-infested neighborhoods. He's like, but I can't connect with kids the way you do because of this badge that's swinging from my from my neck, you know what I mean? And there's so much truth to that. So it doesn't matter, you know, it's what they see and how you present and and why so important the the work that we do and the approach and being authentic. So getting back to the to the services, so you know, I present, I always talk about the four pillars, so how we deliver our services. So there's the the education piece. So education originally was the non-traditional uh sense in which we're just really challenging the the false conceptions or perceptions, challenging the false perceptions these young people have when it comes to the streets, when it comes to violence, when it comes to gangs, drugs, etc. It's really turning it on its head. Because unfortunately, nowadays with social media, you know, all these things are like romanticized. You know what I mean? Glamor, you know what I mean, uh glamorized. And we want to, you know, really, really paint the a vivid picture for them of how ugly and nasty and full of pain this world is if you choose to go down that path. Over time, you know, it's it's morphed into identifying that the the education gaps, right? There's these kids that are again pushed along in the middle schools when they get to the high school. Then, you know, you get you're in this huge school and now you get lost in the sauce. Right. And they think they're, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna get pushed along. No, no one's giving you a credit. You have to earn that credit and having those real world conversations with them. So that's why it's so important for us to have a partnership with the Manchester School District, um, which has allowed us to have access to our kids and other kids in the schools. And I'll speak a little bit more about that in a in a moment. And then there's the in addition to the education piece, it's the it's the mentorship, right? So the mentorship and what sets us apart from other mentorship type programs is that we utilize credible messengers like myself, people with lived experience, you know, and I can speak at length of it. You know what I mean? You know, my involvement as a teenager and the juvenile court, you know, I was at YDC before we came to Sununu Center. I was in YDSU, which no longer exists, was absorbed by the Sununu Center. I was 17 years old in in county jail because at the time in New Hampshire, 17 years old, you were in adults.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

So so again, we can speak at length to those, and that's just myself, right? And then the other mentors too, they have you know maybe different angles that they can play, but it's it's not too far, you know, different and and just makes us more relatable. It's nice to have diversity on our our team because we're going to connect differently with everybody, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:19

And that's to understand too. And like honestly, the the thing about the 17 years old that shocks me because of all this science and and data out there that shows that our you know frontal lobes are not fully formed or developed until our mid-20s or even later. Yeah. And so I just, you know, my heart goes out to those young people that are experiencing that.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. No, no, no. And and it's sad, and and not much has changed other than it's 18 now, you know what I mean? And there's still kids, 18 year olds, you're a baby, you know what I mean? And you're in in a county jail with a bunch of grown men who honestly they're they're they're really just a lot of big kids. That's what it comes down to. And in my experience, it was like kind of like a reunion. Every time I went, you know, I graduated from one, you know, facility to another or upped it up, you know what I mean? So so going from the juvenile system into the adult system, you know, from county to state prison, it was the same guys I would see almost throughout. And it was just it was mind-boggling to me. But at the same time, like, you know, I'm smart enough to understand, like, there's a reason for that, you know what I mean? It's the system, it's this cycle that we get caught up in and where different guys like but then you look back and you reflect and you're like, Well, why didn't so-and-so, you know, like he he went to juvie, but he never went to county, never, you know, I mean something he caught it, you know, early, or he maybe there was a support of some kind of resource. Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, so that's the the the mentorship piece, and there's mediation. So, mediation is is is something that we take great pride in that we're able to coach the the these young people in real time in many occasions to deal with the different situations that they're dealing with. Because again, so a lot of them have different backgrounds, some of them are already court involved, so they may have a probation officer, so we can coach them up and how to engage with their probation officer in a in a meaningful way, in a productive way. Also, if they're it at SYSC, because we also have access to the kids at SYSC, we'll visit them and they're having difficulties with the staff. So again, we get to coach them up and how to approach and to engage with the staff there so that they don't extend their stay, unfortunately, you know, from their actions. But it can be as simple as a parent, you know what I mean? Like how to talk to your parents. And unfortunately, in many cases, these young people have to be the adult, they have to take the higher road. So again, we're trying to coach them up and to coach these young people up in real time to to you know make the best of their situations and with their peers, you know, and how do you interact with your peers? That's very important, you know, or it's you know, school staff, teachers, etc. So I'm in the police. If you're on the street, you know what I mean? Why, why, why is it a bad idea to wear a shisty when you're walking down Elm Street because it doesn't look good, you know what I'm saying? Having covering your face. You look like a bank robber, but that's the style now, you know. I mean, to each their own. And I'm not trying to pass judgment, but also make them understand like, you know, you know, help them grow that that skill and empathy to be able to put themselves in the Of of law enforcement or their parents or teachers so they can look at it differently because they're just looking at it from a first person lens. And and we got to get them out of that because unfortunately, this world has become really self-centered and everything revolves around us and we're not thinking about others. So again, this those little skills that we're trying to help them in real time so that you know they can be productive and they can kind of get out of their own way. In addition to the to the and the last pillar is community connection. So the as a program, we pride ourselves in being a resource to the community, but at the same time building meaningful connections with community resources and also vetting them. Because again, this is something that was kind of shocking to me at first was that a lot of these organizations in the community, some of them like they're not really doing the work. It's smoking mirrors, you know. And unfortunately, because of that, these kids are suffering. These families are suffering. They're thinking, like, oh yeah, you know, I always refer to this program or this organization, and they go and it's it's lip service, you know, it's it's nothing meaningful.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

There's no real the support that they need. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

And so we we try our best to vet our community partners to ensure that we're connecting them with the right people that that that truly

Making Therapy And Support Feel Safe

SPEAKER_02 23:10

care. And sometimes we have to, you know, find out, you know. And so what we do is we're gonna walk alongside them through the process to ensure that they're getting the services that they need. And honestly, there's just a lot of stigma too around a lot of these things. Like again, when it comes to, you know, we know we're talking about mental health, especially young people. Like, I don't want to talk to a stranger, you know, we're talking about like counseling or therapy and things like that. And I'm like, hey, you know what I mean? I felt the same way, you know. So I again it allows me an opportunity to share my first hand experience. I'm saying, like, you know, I have a you know, I had a therapist and it was really good, you know what I mean? And and you have to understand that they're not gonna solve your problems, they're just gonna ask the right questions. They're they're trained professionals to pull the answers from you because you have them. Yeah, they're locked up inside, you know what I mean? So it's just asking the right questions, but you have to allow yourself to be in that space. And you know, something I learned is that you have to kind of treat it like dating, you know what I mean, when it comes to therapy.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

So you're not gonna click saying this with my friends the other day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

You know what I mean? So it's exactly the truth. So just because you don't connect with this person doesn't mean just like, oh, I'm done, I'll never go to therapy again. Like, nah, man, keep keep trying.

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Because there's different kinds too, and there's like, you know, there's there's so many different things that we can look for in a therapist that yeah, I I think it's awesome that you're like positive role model for them to say, like, hey, this is like something I do and it helps me, and it could help you too. Thank you so much, Evanor. I appreciate you coming on today and talking about all this. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

And if if we if we want to continue conversations with you, if someone that is listening to this podcast episode wants to connect with your organization, what do they need to do? How to connect with you, where to find

How To Get Help And Connect

SPEAKER_00 24:50

more information. Sometimes the desperation is so big they really don't have any other place. I we always talk and say, always call 211 is the number one resource we share. Or if someone is really in desperation and they uh are considering suicide, 988 is the right number. But if they want to touch base directly with you and your organization, where do they call or how do they find more information?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Well, I was just saying reach out to me directly. Uh my phone number is 603-670-6815. Also, email. It's gonna be this is a very lengthy email, but it's ePanetta, e-p-in-e-d-a at Manchesterpolice athleticleag.org.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

And anybody can call us at the police at the public health department, Savitri Horrigan, Iraida Muñoz. We are available to help you out connecting you with resources, our direct line 603-589-4500, and we're happy to connect resources to any families that are interested in connecting with you. Well, thank you so much for being with us here. Thank you. Thank you, Evanor.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Thank you both.