Episode 9 - Chace Infinite

On Episode 9 of Lemme Ask You This with Talib Kweli and Tef Poe, we welcome Los Angeles raised artist and executive Chace Infinite. Talib asks Chace about being a conscious record executive. Chace breaks down how the music industry is not designed to help artists. Tef asks Chace about his selfless nature. Talib asks Chace about the legacy of his group with DJ Khalil, Self Scientific. Chace talks about how he misses Talib being on social media and then breaks down his working relationship with Wyatt Waddell. Chace and Talib discuss whether or not hiphop will remain relevant and how it's always been for young people. Chace talks about how record companies are relying on TikTok to find new artists. Tef asks Chace to define talent, and then Talib asks Chace about how much of a factor talent is when it comes to being a successful artist. Chace talks about his working relationships with A$AP Rocky and Westside Gunn. Talib Kweli asks Chace how he feels about Jack Harlow's recent controversy and then tells a story about how he learned about Jack Harlow. The conversation starts to be about white privilege in hiphop spaces. Tef asks Chace about artists creating controversy for clickbait. Talib points out the similarities in what Jack Harlow and LaRussell have been criticized for saying. Tef, Talib and Chace discuss the Afroman situation and call him a hero before debating which Jay-Z album is the best. Chace talks about his Harun Coffee shop and how it adds to the legacy of Leimert Park before breaking down the unique history of Leimert Park. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:12

So your girl was excited when she found out we was gonna interview uh Chase Infinite, huh?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Yeah, well not exactly Chase Infinite, but Chase Infinite.

SPEAKER_06 0:22

Yeah, but we doing big things. We just covered a podcast. We got Chase Infinity already, bro. She's not even in our demographic. You know what I'm saying? Our demographic is still like over 90% male, between like 35 and 44. They don't even know who Chase Infinity is. So just blur out my face and say Chase Infinity anyway. But they know who Chase Infinite is. Yeah, there you go. We got Chase Infinite. My name is Talib Kwali.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I'm Tef Poe.

SPEAKER_06 0:48

This is Let Me Ask You This, and I'm glad that we got today's guest on Let Me Ask You This, Chase Infinite. What's up, Chase Infinite? What's up, brother? How you doing? I got some questions. Super Legend, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Super Legend. It's a legend right there. One of the hardest on the mic. You know what I'm saying? It must be a mirror over there. You don't know because I've been a lot of your swag player, but we'll talk about that later.

SPEAKER_06 1:10

Yeah, man. You have done People's Party before. And um when I I started People's Party interview by saying I couldn't find no interviews on you. Right. And you sent me the ninja emoji on the phone. Because you really is like a ninja out here in these boardrooms and these back rooms. And for people who don't know, Chase Infinity, a good friend of mine, one of my favorite MCs as an artist, he has always inspired me. Him and DJ Khalil were self-scientific have always inspired me. And then when I came out to the West Coast and I was really tapping in with Strong Arm Steady, Steady Gang, you were a part of that. Still part of that. That's your family, that's your peoples. And so I went from being someone who was like marginally aligned with you to being good friends with you. And then we've worked together on management situations. You work with Yassine. But the first thing I want to start out asking you in this conversation, the second iteration of us potted together, is how tough is it for you to be a conscious record executive?

SPEAKER_04 2:12

I mean, it's probably tougher to be a conscious person. As a record executive, it's probably two things kind of anchor me as an executive is the fact that I've still am and always have been an artist. So I see things from an artist's perspective. So you know, in the industry, people often look for in the building, right? They always look for people that can speak to artists or explain things to artists. Whether they're upset about the structure of a contract or having to do a radio or press run when they don't want to. Like I'm always a person that even when I was, you know, kind actively working in uh record companies, I was always a person that was like, you know, go talk to Ty Lib, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:57

We think we want him to go on a ra he doesn't want to do it.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Uh, you know, so I they send me because I you know it's easy for me to kind of Yeah, go talk that black talk to him. Whatever the in, you know, the uh apprehension or opposition is to that. And then being conscious is like, um for better or for worse, I really don't have a price. I don't necessarily do things for money, and that's rooted in the the idea that we're, you know, or the practice of being a conscious human being.

SPEAKER_06 3:27

So Well, I mean, I say that, and I ask that because you are an anomaly. I've met people in this business who are righteous and conscious, but just like trying to be a police officer, right? And I'm not saying you the cops, I'm not saying you the boys. Yeah, but if you have a righteous conscious mentality and you're trying to be an upstanding police officer, you're gonna get murdered.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:50

Those other police ain't gonna have your back. You're gonna run into a lot of problems. So I imagine in the music business, as an artist, I've never been a management in a management. I do I am a boss, and I run a record label. So I guess I am an executive too. No, for sure. To a degree. I guess I am. I just had that realization right here in front of you. No, you definitely are. Yeah, you definitely are. But because I still look at myself as an artist and uh uh first and foremost. But yeah, I mean, I guess you have gone into working with different labels and different artists, whereas your job becomes the vision of the label or the vision of the artist. And so I guess that's why I never put myself in that bag because even for Javodi, it's never been any other vision but mine. Yeah, so but you've I asked you this question because you've been successful at it. No one doubts who you are as a man, no one doubts your credibility, no one doubts your accolades. Everyone bigs you up in the business from hip-hop to to anybody who's ever you've ever worked with, they enjoy working with you. Um, it's a pleasure to work with you, but it's like these two worlds don't always jell.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

No, they don't. And it's you know, it's rare that you know you get an opportunity to, I guess, have one foot on both sides of that line, but there is a line. Um and you know, I've probably suffered on what we consider the executive side sometimes because like I said, I'm you know, 99.9% of the time, I'm side with the artists. And if it's a situation I'm put in to translate or be involved in something that's gonna put the artist in a bad position, I'm just not gonna do that. Because I figure I've always figured that whatever longevity I have on the business side is gonna come because I have a relationship with artists and not because I was, you know, in favor of the music industry is a place where it was never, you know, just like the law in America was never meant to aid and abet citizens, but the the laws or the structure of the music industry is not designed to aid and abet artists. You know, it's changed somewhat since since I started. I've been doing this like 37 years now. But yeah, it's it's it w it's not somewhere where artists get a fair shake. The structure of the music industry, and it has a lot of times it has nothing to do with uh the company's intention or whatever executive is in a in a seat for making the decisions, their intention. It's literally the structure of the music industry. Yeah, the artists get paid less, and that's why people like Ray Charles was an anomaly. Uh people like yourself, you know, you say you're not an executive or you didn't see yourself as that, but that's from my experiences since I've known you, this absolutely not true. Where there's been, you know, your experience with Rockets Records into venturing into your own things, and you signed, you know, as you talked about Strong Arm Steady earlier. Strong Arm Steady was signed to you.

SPEAKER_06 6:41

Like, you know what I'm saying? So um it's crazy though, because that's exactly right. But my memories of that experience is being at the crib smoking backwards, words and swishes, but that's how it's riding on mixtapes. Because, but yeah, you're right. It's like, okay, I I use my platform to be able to bring that music to a wider audience. But for me, it was about me tapping in with them, not me providing the opportunity for them.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

And that's how it starts a lot for me too. Yeah. Like, you know, people that I've worked with, whether it be on the management side or somebody I signed or did marketing for, because I've done it all, but it generally starts as a friendship that develops or a mutual admiration for art and and then some people recognize maybe that I'm in a position or know um certain executives that they can't necessarily get on the phone. So I'm in a position to help. And then as a result of that, people are gracious enough to let me sit at the table and eat with them. You know, for a long time that was kind of the hardest part is not finding opportunity, but figuring out how to justify a way for me to get paid for what I do versus just being a homie that hooked everybody up.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

So that's you know, but you know, both have happened, and I I don't have no qualms about any of it. Honestly, I'm I'm grateful to be in a position to do any of it. Um, because you as you know, you know, because you're a conscious artist and have been for a long time. I think you're probably the standard when a nigga starts to have, you know, uh, it'll be like, you know, your Talib Kwali shit is literally a verb motherfuckers use.

SPEAKER_06 8:10

Oh no, we were talking about that with Razcast, because we had we were talking to Raz last night, and he went on the uh bag few and he was like, you know, I don't I don't fuck with the chew stick rap niggas. And they was like, oh, you mean like Talib Kwali? Yeah, I was like, what the fuck happens? Yeah, how my name can throw? But you're but you're synonymous with a certain I am I'm synonymous with this certain energy when it comes to hip hop, which is which to me is a badge of honor. Absolutely. When I see that when people say I'm jokey jokey when I when I talk about it in that way, but I really when I see that I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

No, you have to. You have to because I mean if we if we I'm 53, bro, I'll be 53, God willing, in March 27th. But bro, like the the era we come from, that's what I aspire to be. That's right. You know, when I was listening to Brother J and you know, whatever, a lot of artists that came before us, like that's what made me Chuck D or J. Ruder Damager. Like, I aspire to be somebody that was, you know, that people looked at in that light.

SPEAKER_06 9:04

Somebody acknowledges itself worse things you could be the poster child for.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

Man, straight up. Straight up. And true sticks, miswax are actually really good for your teeth. We was just saying that. They keep your breath, they keep your breath from sticking. I said that's the goggles tell you it's good for your breath and your teeth. So yeah, straight up. That's the Ramadan cheat code. So yeah, you know, you know, I please associate me with uh true sticks. I'm with it, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Man, one thing I think about when I think of your trajectory, me and an actual very talented MC, having one of the best producers in the game. Thank you, brother. Um, but you also chose to do a lot of things that are very selfless in the name of the entire community and the entire ecosystem. Word. Um a lot of people who were in your position with the producer, with the accolades, with the flow, with the credibility. They just simply wouldn't have did that. Uh what's what motivated you to be that person?

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Um, I'm not quite sure, man. I think it's about how you how I enter a relationship with an artist. Um and it probably comes from I started in the music industry when I was 14 as an intern, right? And but I was also actively in a group with DJ Khalil called Self-Scientific. And I think at the time, even though you had some examples of people that were artists and executives, there weren't a lot of examples of that. So you didn't, I never really wanted to have my work as an executive be overshadowed by the fact that I was, I didn't want people to think I was seeking an opportunity as an artist when I'm actually doing work and occupation. Sometimes that seems difficult. You can't do a marketing plan for Rascals or Snoop Dogg, and they're thinking you're trying to talk to everybody that you talk to, you're trying to, you know, listen to self-scientific too. So it can't, so I guess in some ways I did develop like these two identities. You know, if it comes up and you want to talk about it, cool, no problem. You want me on a song, I'll show up. I'll write a verse. But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna utilize whatever leverage I have as an executive to improve my position as an artist. And and then vice versa. You know, most of the stuff that we put out, even though I know a lot of the people who quote unquote write the checks for these companies, Sus Scientific is we had a development deal with Loud Records. That's it. You know, of uh as a demo. I did a demo with them, but other than that, we put out our own shit. Yeah. Always have. I went to Rainbow and Santa Monica and pressed up lacquers and made vinyl and sold it and peanut butter wolf and all that. Yeah, funded our own tours overseas, and you know. But yeah, that's always it's always been the case, man. So, you know, um I think the selfest part comes from just probably thinking about how I want somebody to interact with me if if if I if the if the shoes on the other foot.

SPEAKER_06 11:55

Um you mentioned Ray Charles earlier, and Khalil's been working on his Ray Charles record. Yeah, I think I'm on that. You are.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:01

You definitely are.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Thank you for that too. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 12:04

Um, what's going on with new self-scientific music?

SPEAKER_04 12:09

We have, man, probably like, I don't know, over 80 songs. And the way the self-scientific works is I do the lyrics and the concepts for the songs most of the time, and Khalil finishes the music.

unknown 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Khalil is busy as hell.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

Um, which is great. I actually recorded over three of them, Khalil. He sent me a pack back in September. Shout out to Jazzy Jeff. That's one of the best things I've ever seen. For real. Shout out to the legend Jazzy Jeff. But seeing Khalil there, and um, it was good. We tapped in.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Yeah, I mean, Khalil's just, you know, well, number one, it's kind of like you and y'all seeing. Like, Khalil is literally my best friend. Right? So when, and we both, you know, have children and have responsibilities and you know, we're each other's confidence when it comes to just life stuff, right? So if Khalil's going through something, I'm not gonna call and ask him about did you finish that song? Right. If he knows I'm going through something, you know, challenges and shit, like he's not gonna be like, well, you need to finish that second verse. So, and I think in a in a in a group, you need that dynamic a little bit to hold each other accountable. And not that we don't hold each other accountable, we just never let the music and how we interact as brothers interfere with, you know, because you know this is important, you know, the music's important, but not as important as you know, the bond that we have as men, as is as brothers.

SPEAKER_06 13:31

So you spoke on uh on self-scientific not being like a major group in terms of the deals, and you put out everything independent, but not just for the West Coast, but in the hip hop canon, y'all definitely have left an impact, an important stamp in the form of like the dynamic of a one MC one producer thing. It's like if you think about that, we were talking to Blue and Exile about that, and there's a lineage there, for sure. They they come after y'all, for sure. Um, you I think self-scientific and reflection eternals around the same time. Around the same time. Um, but we come after gangstar, and so we're part of a fraternity or uh, you know, a secret society of producer MC groups. For sure. And I'm I'm proud to be cut from that cloth that you cut.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

I I agree. I would if if I had to like, you know, if you're asking me, I think we're all probably gangstar babies. Oh, it's always gangstar, yeah. Yeah, when it when it when it comes to that. So yeah, no, I I feel honored to be uh a part. And you know, sometimes when we get into the hip-hop conversations, I'd be like, damn. You know, it's just like you maybe having a realization and presently, like, oh wow, I am an executive too. I what you just said, I'm like, damn, sometimes I realize that too. Like, man, it's not a lot of duos. So when people give us accolades or say the type of things that you just said, I'm like, oh yeah, I guess it's true, you know, because it's only been you know, you can make it's maybe a handful of songs with me over somebody else's beat. And it's probably with you or uh evidence of somebody. You know, and most of the time when I'm recording, it's just DJ Khalil and we formulating this whole idea of what self-scientific is.

SPEAKER_06 15:08

Yeah, self-scientific. There's a lot of self-scientific babies running around here. Well, particularly in Los Angeles, I think.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

I feel like I'm a self-scientific kid for sure. I think I recognize that now too. You know, just a certain because it's conscious, but it has street elements. You know, we have, you know, we you you categorically call us a conscious group, but also there's some ignorant ass moments too. Yeah. So just giving, making way to be a human being, but also having a through line that's like rooted in something that some choice stick energy, choostick energy, big choic energy, big juice pause. But yeah, big choice stick music, you know, that's that I think that's what we contributed to the Los Angeles. Los Angeles is such a car in gangbang culture. Like we made a conscious effort to not fall into that, but to to represent so many other things. And in the name itself, we come from an era where your name is your title. And what you choose to what you chose as a name for your group or your entities, which you kind of had to embody in some way. So self-scientific literally means knowledge itself. So I'm always explaining an emotion or a circumstance or something as it relates to like from yourself outward. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, when I was younger, I was a huge self-scientific fan, man. That music turned me out because it was conscious and it was also street. You know what I'm saying? So it had a vibe where I was learning something, but it was also like, these niggas ain't punks, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the idea, you know, like Khalil, and if we ever did go back and forth about something, that's you know, Khalil's always trying to like, nah, go deeper. Don't, you know, write up, you don't bring that street shit into this shit. But you know, I gotta be true to you know my experience as well as an MC. So I was always trying to sneak a girl record in there or you know, talk about the homies in some way without you know getting caught up in gang shit. But so you know it's it's in there, and you probably get the energy more than like a direct explanation of certain shit. But like, you know, those that know know.

SPEAKER_06 17:21

Blue, uh XL was saying similar things about blue, and and high tech doesn't say those things because he's quiet, but he does those things. He does. You know what I'm saying? Like, for sure. I would go in the booth and I would spit my heart out, and you know, I'm uh you know me, I'm trying different things. I'm trying to be international, trying to touch the people. Right. And I'd be like, how was it? It's cool, it's cool, and that it's cool, you know. It is a lot of it's a lot of it's carrying a lot of weight that that is cool. There's a lot of to unpack and that is cool. For sure. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

Khalil does the same thing. I'll be like, You like it? You'd be like, eh. You know, and you know, usually that means like not really, maybe you should do it again.

SPEAKER_06 17:57

Right, right. But man, iron stop, iron sharpened iron, and I'm glad that we have people like that in our lives. Word, workout, work. Um, before we sat down for this talk, we were listening to Wyatt Waddell. Incredible. You put us on. Uh, I first got hip to him on your Instagram. People don't notice, but I look at Instagram through the through the the podcast, because you know they don't let me on your screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But through the podcast Instagram, I was able to see.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Damn, I was telling C Sick, I was like, man, as much as I should talk shit, I kind of miss Qualio. Listen, bro.

SPEAKER_06 18:31

Y'all needed me. I'm y'all needed me. Y'all just didn't know y'all needed me. Everybody who said get off the internet, now y'all like, man, I wish I had quality here to talk to you.

SPEAKER_05 18:39

I was definitely one of those friends that call you sometimes. Like, bro, what is going on, bro?

SPEAKER_06 18:43

Yo, D-Ray Davis said, he said, ain't it a bitch that everything niggas told you to stop doing is how niggas get paid now on the internet.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

That's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:51

But that's the unfortunate uh that's the position that we're in. Yeah, they kicked me off and got me out the way.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

So all these things make money paid. Yeah, there's no you don't get no, you don't get no points. You don't get no money being first. Right. Yeah, right. Somebody right behind you, or you'd be like, I just did that.

SPEAKER_05 19:07

That's crazy as fuck.

SPEAKER_06 19:08

Right. But um, especially when us when I see these podcasts, it's like a lot of goofy shit. Niggas arguing on podcasts and having fights in the podcasts and and and uh talking about the grievances they have with each other. Yeah I'm like, that was me on Twitter just against the system.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

The only difference is like you're actually well read and you have a real international perspective because you really travel and you know have respect for many different cultures and walks of life. Right.

SPEAKER_06 19:36

We induck in Morocco.

SPEAKER_04 19:38

Yeah, so a lot of people, a lot of people don't have that though. Yeah. And that's the thing that I when I was telling at this CSIC, I think that's what we've you know really miss, is the fact that, you know, you know, having an opposing opinion or a controversial opinion, controversial opinion nowadays, it gets you a lot of bread. People do it just to do it. Yeah. Um but the problem is that most people don't care to actually study or read enough or don't have enough lived experience to actually number one, sound intelligent or have a perspective that they can actually defend.

SPEAKER_06 20:12

I just wrote an essay about this, about uh the pitfalls of being a contrarian and how uh being a contrarian is a straight line to not just narciss, but really to fascism. Because if your entire identity is based on I'm going to take a contrary position, then you're going to end up siding with people who are wrong. And you're gonna end up siding with dictators and people who want to have authority over human beings because at this point you just want to be right about something. And you want to be right about something, or not even be right, you want to feel like you're right about something more than you want to help create a solution for a problem. And when that happens, it's just this is why you're just a disruptor without having a cause to disrupt. This is why the James Dean of it all with with white societies, it's like these motherfuckers just want to just want to rebel against their parents for no reason. They just want to be contrary, it's not really based in anything, it's not based at actual belief, beliefs, or or actual solutions. And and and that's a real big part of the problem. Well, I mean, I got off track. I was asking you about the guitar dude.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

So whyot is a um 29-year-old brother from Chicago who's an exceptional singer, songwriter, producer, you know, me musician. I actually, you know, you were joking with me earlier, but I, you know, my new passion for the last four or five years is smoking cigars. And I smoke cigars all the time with an artist named Devin Morrison. He'll come by the house because he lives close, who's another incredible RB artist, Devin Morrison and producer. But he'll come by the house mostly because he's bumming cigars off me. But one day he was like, Man, have you have. Seen this kid on TikTok. Not a kid, but you know, a younger man. He's like, Man, you gotta check this dude out. And he showed me this. He was doing he I thought it was really smart. At first, I thought it was a real strategy. Um, he was on TikTok singing songs, like you know, 20 seconds of the song all the time and kind of alluding to it coming out, but he didn't have anything on uh DSPs or you know on the internet. So I was like, wow, who the fuck is this guy? He was a song called uh Should have stayed home, and it was just the texture of the music, man. Like, you know, he had just acoustic versions of it, or he'd be with his musician friends, and and I just went crazy, completely fell in love with the music and you know, began the process of trying to figure out how can I get a hold of this dude. Fast forward, I'm telling a story fast, but fast forward, um, he put out a song that he was a feature on with a group called Patchwork Inc. Patchwork Inc. is a you know a loose collective. This guy named Blake Ryan, who's uh musician and producer from Chicago as well. He's uh Durand um I forget what's the name in the in the indications. He's in the group The Indications and Um he started this collective, which uh, you know, I can only really describe kind of like how salt or like uh so-to-soul is or whatever it's a collective of artists, but it's always different feature vocals on the lead. And um this song with Wyatt was crazy. I was like, man, he he's gotta know who Wyatt is, gotta have connections to him, obviously, because he's on the song. So when I reached out to Blake, because you know I do AR at Empire currently, too. So I reached out to Blake, like, man, what are you guys doing? Um they uh put out a record through his independent label called Colmine Records out of Loveland, Ohio, who's an incredible. They do mostly vinyl, but they do like all these, I guess, retro soul type records that I think.

SPEAKER_06 23:48

They wanted to put out we yeah, yeah. I spoke to the Colmine dudes because uh we are y'all scene is likes we and we were trying to find the original singer and they put out that we record and tracked it down.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Yeah, yeah. So it's uh it's a great family-owned business from Loveland, Ohio. They own a record shop too called Platroom Records. They do a great record record digging day or whatever. They just had it this weekend. Um, but um I asked him, I was like, bro, do you know why Waddell? Because I'm I've been trying to reach him for like five, six months now. I'm leaving messages on TikTok and shit. He's not really responding, he doesn't know who the fuck I am. So Blake was like, Yeah, no problem. I connect you guys. He connected me and Wyatt, and we just connected instantly. He's like, bro, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind having you work with me if you're open to it. I was like, I thought you'd never ask. Man, and um we signed him to Empire. I manage him. He just put out his record, it's called The Under Studies, a 12-song uh album that's completely produced and written by him and some of the musicians that he works with. And it's the understudy is a perfect name for the album because when you hear his music, for people that know music, you go, you know, it's coded with all these influences, you know.

SPEAKER_06 24:55

And he told me a story. It's black American music. It's it's literally black American music. It's blues, it's rock and roll. Yeah, it's a little bit of funk of soul in there. Yeah, and it's um, it's it's these Midwest cats, man. They the black Midwest has not let go of rock and roll in the way that a lot of people have from band called Death to this guy. Where's Mono Neon from? Anybody know?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

I don't know where he's from, but he's cold as hell.

SPEAKER_06 25:20

Yeah, I wonder if he from the Midwest. Let's the brother be having crazy ass outfits playing.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

One of my homegirls, Frankie Duwap, got a track with him. He that boy cole.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

He's crazy. But he's um he's a singer song, a classic singer-songwriter style, and it's refreshing to hear. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

It's a lot of that. I mean, I I feel like me and Tyler the creator always go back and forth about this, like the tide is actually changing to where there's such a there's been such an oversaturation of certain types of black music or hip-hop in particular, that people are now, I think, are more opened up to a more uh uh a form of black music that focuses more on musicianship and how you write the lyrics and a certain song structure.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

Are we ready to address the fact that hip-hop is adult contemporary music for people our age and there's people who go out to clubs and and go out to party? It's not like the cutting edge like it used to be.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Yeah, well, you know what's crazy? I think it always has been to a certain degree. Um, you know, the first word in hip-hop is hip. And I think you I think you almost have to be young to be hip per se. Um, so it's always gonna be a contingency or a section of hip-hop that people our age don't really understand. Yeah. Hip hop has definitely evolved. You know, I worked with an artist named Playboy Cardi early in his career that people, you know, is now it's kind of the norm in terms of like what we consider to be hip-hop, but it's morphed.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

I think what, you know, I think certain forms of hip-hop which are sample-based, which concentrates on a four-four time scale, like rhyming around the snare and shit like that, maybe that can be considered or sounds like to most younger people something that's adult contemporary. But think about it when we were coming up, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like there were certain groups that definitely were that felt older than us, like, you know what I'm saying, and more mature to the point where we're learning from the things that they're putting in the music. And then the sound of the music sometimes was almost like, okay, and it helped elevate us in terms of like our appreciation for music, yeah, but it definitely was not something that was contemporary to us.

SPEAKER_06 27:24

Well, I think about the conversation around people was mad at Yachty because he was making fun of the Sugar Hill gang. Yeah. He was like, they say what I say is nonsense, but uh hip hop, hip doesn't sound crazy to me. Yeah, of course it does. Right, but because you had to kind of be there and be outside to understand why that was cutting edge and revolutionary at the time.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

Or the lineage of that particular style MC.

SPEAKER_06 27:44

And it reminds me of the Rama Reason documentary. And there's a scene when Method Man, this documentary comes out in '94. Right. And so at the time, the cutting edge was big and and and Wu-Tang and these is like young, just barely fresh out of teenage age. Right. You know what I'm saying? And Method Man said, yo, they had a book, you know what I'm saying, where they try to have the hip-hop slang in the book, and they had words in there like deaf and fresh, and we don't even be saying them words no more. You walk up to a nigga nowadays talking about, yo, I'm chilling in the fresh way, the nigga gonna look at you like he crazy.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

And and in retrospect, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, uh, it was true. What Cameron Ress says 50 years down the line, um, don't start this, because we'll be the old school artists. It's like, yo, it's like you're gonna have your time to be cutting edge, and you're gonna have your time to not be cutting edge. Yeah, man. And and then when you're not cutting edge, you become part of the mainstream culture.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

Bro, I remember I was me and Khalil were like 23, 22, 23 when we got the development deal with loud. And we were recording our demo at Ice T's house. Ice T, who was a legend by any, and probably one of the eldest members of the hip hop community. I think Ice might be, I'm 53, Ice gotta be 67, 68. And you know, he's been around for a long time. One of the longest, most successful. He was breaking and breaking. Bro, he's one of the longest.

SPEAKER_05 29:15

He was damn near 30. You know what I'm saying? He was in his late 20s already.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

So he said to us, he was like, I'm excited about the opportunity and shit. And we're talking about, he's like, How old are you? I was like, I'm 23. He was like, Oh. And it was like a look of disappointment. I'm like, what? I was like, what's up with that? And he was like, he's like, honestly, he's like, you know, you kind of right outside of the sphere of influence for hip hop.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

And I was like, what you mean, nigga? I'm out of here. I'm you know, I'm going back and forth to New York and I'm going to clubs and shit. I'm thinking, I'm in it. And then he's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

He's like, but honestly, like the people that are responsible for making the decisions about where this shit is actually going are five, six years younger than you. He's like, hip-hop is a young man's sport. He was the first person to really tell me that or get me to understand that, like, oh shit, no, it really is. And this is somebody who's, you know, 14 years older than me.

SPEAKER_06 30:03

Yeah, man. To that point, you mentioned that you discovered this artist on TikTok. I remember, I don't remember which executive it was, because this was a number of years ago. I went to have a meeting with a record executive who was an AR. And he said, Man, uh, my job is easy now. I just scroll through TikTok. Yeah. Whatever's cracking on TikTok is what I bring to my bosses and be like, this is what's cracking on TikTok. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Is that accurate? Uh it's accurate to an extent. Like they have, it's not accurate for me per se. I still discover artists most like technically I found out through another artist. Okay. But he told me, but he showed me. So it wasn't like I scrolled. I did some research after the fact, like, who is this guy? Is he personable? Is he charismatic? Because you start trying to plug in all the other variables that make an artist. But I was like, I heard about it, and most of the time, the things that I'm into, I hear about from other artists still. But there are whole, like, it's changed great. I mean, listen, they got whole research departments. I have a um an AR call that I'm on once a week, actually twice a week, with uh Empire. And we start the meetings with the research department. And the research department, a young brother named Elijah, who's brilliant, you know, he's uh ridiculous. He's a beast when it comes to like data. So he searches, they have these, you know, programs now that kind of uh give you the highlights of the data from each of the individual social media platforms and like what's spiking. So he'll but it's his personal taste combined with data that determines who he presents in the AR. And at first I was like, you know, I was like, man, what is this shit, bro? A data. I'm like, research department. At first, as an older person, one of the oldest ARs on the on the on the team, I'm like, uh, I don't know if I want to hear this shit, but then I really began to understand, like, it's not, it's just like AI. So AI is a is a compilation of these keywords and intelligence from people like yourself trying to troubleshoot or find a solution for something, right? But it still relies on the intelligence and Tyler of Kwali in order to regurgitate or give you a suggestion or figure out something. Somebody had to actually write a document or put a document together in order for them to give you the structure that they provide through AI. So there's still a considerable amount of like natural intelligence.

SPEAKER_06 32:21

Yeah, that's why robots are going to be racist in the future. Because people are racist.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Because people are racist. So my point is there's still a degree of like natural intelligence in combination with data that informs people, even in research departments. But yeah, to answer your question, it's we just it's over. It's over. The long story short, it's over. It's over.

SPEAKER_05 32:44

If I hadn't discovered the brother, like within two months, somebody would have brought him up.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

Like, hey, this guy's spiking on social media with Waddell, yeah. But why is incredible? Y'all got he's you know, people say Stevie Wonder, the Beatles, you know, Blood, Sweat, and Tears, like classic groups that, you know, and that's why his album's called The Understudy, because he actually he regurgitates and represents, uh, represents uh all those nuances without sounding on the nose. It's like it's it's still something new and contemporary, but it's like it feels like some shit you heard before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:19

Like putting on a a jacket or a shirt that you might remind you of your childhood. A good vintage shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

I remember I couldn't afford this polo when it first came out, but I got it. But I got it now. I got it, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

So with that said, what actually defines talent to you these days?

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Um what defines talent is a very good question. Um if you can if you exist within the canon of uh artists, either contemporary or order artists, that if I can find a way for you to exist in my understanding, within the same canon as artists that I respect. Um a lot of people play the guitar, a lot of people sing, um, a lot of people rhyme, you know what I'm saying? But do you are you reminiscent of something that I remember is great? Um can I see you within the landscape of whether they be really good unknown artists or you know, legendary artists? Can I see you within that canon? That's the thing that kind of determines maybe it doesn't just determine talent, but it determines for me whether or not I can work with you or find a way to help you exploit your talent. Um because I mean 50 years later, man, there's a lot of really talented you know, people that can rhyme, but I don't know how many people, you know, actually sparked my interest in it. Because it's not a lot that I haven't heard. I'm good friends with Tyler Kwali. Is I'm good friends with Yasin Bey, I'm a good friend with the city. You're Chase Infinite. I'm Chase Infinite. Right.

SPEAKER_06 34:56

So it's hard for a motherfucker just to be like, you know, if you can rhyme, that's cool, but is there something else that well as somebody who's been an artist and is an artist and is on the executive and management side, if it's a pie chart, yeah, what percent of the pie chart does talent represent in the metric of success? In the business wise, I don't mean success in life, but like to be a successful artist where people are like, yo, he's doing it big in the industry.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Yeah, for me, it's still probably, you know, over half of that. I can't say, but to me, it's definitely over half because everything, you know, the business of music you can learn. You know, you can a motherfucker can become charismatic by proximity. And you may not be able to be as charismatic as you know.

SPEAKER_06 35:44

I know I had to learn how to uh speak to people, deal with people, be personal. I'm I'm naturally a shy person. But you always been able to learn how to rhymes.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

But you always been able to rhyme good as a motherfucker.

SPEAKER_06 35:54

I've always been able to rhyme good, yeah. That's my point. But I had to learn all the other things, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

But that's what I'm saying. Some of the other shit can be taught by proximity or by showing a motherfucking example. You know, it's like I can't, you know, I can't teach you how to write, like, you know, or express yourself in a compelling way. So talent to me is, you know, probably still 60, 70% of it. Everything else, you know, I the dude's shy, okay, cool. You know, he meets the right girl. He may not be shy. He'd be here forever. You know what I'm saying? He says some weird shit, uh, media trainer a couple times. Even if you don't learn everything, you know, it's other shit you can work on, but talent, you know, still to me, you know, it probably the only person that has like, you know, and this man is incredibly talented, but like somebody like Rocky, right? Like Rocky's, you know, charismatic as hell, you know, by the grace of God, the brothers, you know, a handsome brother, pause. I know I'm gonna get that, but you know, it is what it is. Um, subjectively, man, he, you know, but but the brother standards of of consequence. And he makes great music, but you know, he's 90% editing, 10% execution. Rocky's an over-editor. And like, so it depends. Like, every artist is different, but you know, Rocky's the type of motherfucker that can edit over and over. And he'll spend four years editing, you know, and you know, taking away.

SPEAKER_06 37:15

I could tell everything about what he does was very intentional. This last project, The Don't Be Dumb, the rollout was legendary. People talk about the clips rollout, but I think the ASAP Rocky rollout was right up there. Yeah. The Amazon thing, I watched that live when it happened, and I was just, as a New Yorker, right? I was so proud.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Right.

SPEAKER_06 37:33

Because I didn't feel like it was about ASAP Rocky when I was watching it. It felt like it was about the culture, right? About the city, about Yams. Right. It felt like it felt like he was doing it for us. And even some political statements. It was political statements. Even the vision, the visual of it was a political statement. Here we are on this platform that's owned by this billionaire, right? And here we are. Even the fashion choices, Rocky's a Hama Fashion dude. Right. But the they had it was Hama Fashion, but look had to look like what you're wearing now. It was Hama Fashion, but still street, and the record choices was great. Um, it was very black, yeah. Unapologetically black. Yeah. And um, you know, you brought Rocky around early, the black start things, uh things, man. Um how did they hook up the Tim Burton thing?

SPEAKER_04 38:21

I think that's just Rocky's um celebrity and access. He's well, first of all, he's always been a huge fan of Tim Burton. I don't know where they met, to be honest with you. Um, but Rocky's just always been a huge fan. He's a big fan of uh oh man, what's the director's name that did Darjeeling Express? Uh uh uh Wes Anderson. Huge Wes Anderson fan. Yeah, I watch all Wes Anderson. He's a huge Wes Anderson fan. That makes sense. Huge Tim Burton fan. Yeah. Like, and you know, so he's quirky. Quirky, but still beautifully shot.

SPEAKER_06 38:53

Wes Anderson, all his movies, every shot looks like a postcard. Yeah. Which is what makes his mute movies extra beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Absolutely. And then Tim Burton, he's got another one. Yeah, that's Tim Burton. It's Tim Burton. So I think Rocky just was a natural fan, met the dude and took a shot, had asked him to be involved. Yeah. Because of you know who Rocky is. Obviously, he was like, man, fuck it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:15

The Danny Elfman shit, too, the way that they reveal Danny Elfman.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

That was surprising to me. Yeah, that was surprising. Oh, I didn't know. Well, I worked on an album with Rocky, so I found out during the course of work on it. I was like, oh shit. When you realize how much of a Tim Burton fan he is, it's like us. Yeah, you read credits, you know. Yeah, you read credits. You start to read credits, you're like, oh shit. So I think it probably happened the same way. He's like, man, he did the music for uh Christmas. What's the uh what's the name of the Christmas record? Uh the Nightmare Before Christmas. Nightmare before Christmas and shit like that. So the Batman stuff. Right. So cinematically, if you're interested, you know, in soundtrack wise and the scoring and stuff like that, I think Rocky just got interested as a result of his appreciation and admiration for Tim Burton.

SPEAKER_06 40:00

And did you are you the one that got Westside Gun on that record? Yeah. Okay, because you work with Westside Gun as well. Yep. How does one manage Westside Gun?

SPEAKER_00 40:09

You don't.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

You can't really manage Westside Gun. Right. I love his wrestling. Like I said, but that same shit. Me and Westside Gun just became really good friends. I think I had him come out to Yams Day one year, 2017, 18, something. So I've been knowing Gunn for a long time. I didn't start working with him until 2019. And um, you know, we him and Benny both. I started I managed them and helped him renegotiate a couple deals. And, you know, but but I I work with Gunn in a much different capacity than I did other artists. Like, Gunn literally came to me and was like, he came to my house and was like, man, I need your Rollodex.

SPEAKER_05 40:47

At first I was like, nigga, what you mean?

SPEAKER_04 40:48

First of all, nobody has Roller Dex no more. You mean my phone? I said, Well, I don't have no fucking Rollodex. He was like, No, I need your roller. Because he obviously is an artist that had interests in parts of the business that I've had experience working in with other artists and some success and some success. You know, especially a guy like Rocky, like Gunn at the time had never been to Europe. Um, he hadn't really, you know, been to Paris Fashion Week and always had an interest in doing certain shit. So whether it be, you know, connecting him with Virgil, you know, I'm the guy who got Virgil to actually write brick on a brick, brick form for the uh for the Grisel. Tell Virgil write brick on my brick. So just have me understanding him as an artist and Griselda as an artist, I think just I was able to just help connect the dots with things that he probably didn't have connections, but at this point, it's like, you know, Westside Guns, Westside Gun, and he's impossible to actually manage. Like, he's he's got so much shit going on. Like, you know, you'll find out. But sometimes people call me, like, man, Gun is doing his thing, man. Can you get me in? I'll be like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 41:53

But yeah, let me call him. Right. Yeah. All types of shit.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Yeah, I'm I actually watch his uh wrestling promotion a lot actually last week. Fourth road. Uh I'm sitting on the couch watching it at the crib in St. Louis, and Kwali said, Hey, I need you to get to Spain. I'm like, I'm watching fourth road, bro. Yeah, we went to Spain.

SPEAKER_06 42:11

Um we went to Spain to tap in with Yassine. We did an episode with Y'all seen a brother Ali. How was that? How many hours was it?

SPEAKER_04 42:18

Uh about two and a half hours. I mean, that nigga can talk, man. I love that nigga to death. But me, I mean sometimes I gotta look at the clock before I call my brother. I'd be like, Do I have two hours last?

SPEAKER_06 42:28

You know, he uh said that he wanted to do a podcast with you, me, and brother Ali. I'm ready. Yeah, man. I'm ready. Let's do it. Did you have a relationship with Rich Nichols? Yeah. The Roots? For sure, for sure. I feel like rest in peace. Yeah, rest in peace to Rich Nichols. When I hear about Yams, I feel like there's a comparison between the vision that Rich Nichols laid out for the roots and how it plays out, and the vision that Yams laid out for ASAP.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

I I I think that's probably accurate.

SPEAKER_06 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Definitely accurate, you know. And it's like, I don't know, every artist, I think, you know, you have a consortium or uh a small group of individuals that you respect enough to even have input on your experience, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that's important. And if you're lucky to have somebody like a rich nichols, like a Yams, and you know, it's uh Masterminding, then consider planning. Consider yourself blessed. That you know, I think Teff spoke on it earlier, is like that's a selfless uh undertaking, you know what I'm saying? To be like the person that is behind the scenes and wants to contribute to an artistic movement without having to be seen. Um, yeah, I mean, you know, there's probably a whole show that can be done on those types of people. Yeah, man. Because everybody, every great artist has some, you know, when we talk about Ray Charles, John Abrams, you know, right, who was his I think it was his last name.

SPEAKER_06 43:51

No, you got Blue Williams, you got Corey Simpsons for all the outcasts, Dave, a lot of people like this.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Come on, so Dave Flowers who absolutely Absolutely need their flowers. And they do to some degree because of their proximity and involvement, they actually get paid. But there's a it's like linemen on a football team. You know, the quarterback always gets interviewed. You'll never see the 320-pound nigga that runs a 4-6 that opened that opened up all these avenues for this dude score a touchdown.

SPEAKER_05 44:21

They always talk about the quarterback. But that's a good analogy. In some ways, you gotta be okay with it. Nobody ever talks, nobody ever talks to the center. This man spend the whole entire game hiking the ball to a motherfucker to start the you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 44:33

But you never get, you never, nobody ever interviews the center. You know? If he has a bad day, everybody having a bad day, but nobody ever interviews the center. You gotta be okay with that.

SPEAKER_06 44:43

Um thank you for also getting us on that uh that peppers, man. People heard me on peppers and they was like, Yeah, oh Kali, you're back. I'm like, I've been doing music this whole time. People like peppers a lot, though. They love they love peppers. Shout out to West Side Gun.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

To point to your point, you know, West Side Gun can't be managed. It wasn't like I was I heard his song, I was like, you know, you should get quality. He sent me the song. Right. I was like, this is dope. He's like, yeah. Then he called me.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

He's like, yeah, what I'm thinking is I need to get, I need to get Yasin, and I need quality. I need to be, I need to have a whole, you know what I'm saying, Black Star. I don't want I don't want to get one of them. I need to get both of them.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

He got it. Yeah. I was happy that actually happened. The video was a trip that you almost didn't happen. Who somebody was late? Was it what y'all seeing? It was y'all seeing he was. It wasn't me. Of course it was. It was y'all saying, we did a video in my own neighborhood, you know that?

SPEAKER_06 45:35

You uh yeah, the neighborhood I grew up in. It was getting tricky.

SPEAKER_05 45:38

Motherfuckers was like, oh shit, y'all seen quality. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_06 45:41

Back in the hood, flat push.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

Yeah. It was cold in New York that day, too. Damn.

SPEAKER_06 45:46

Alright, so as a manager, I've been looking at things that have been happening with artists recently, and artists saying things and doing things that that people make people upset, intentionally or not. So recently, Jack Harlow has been rolling out a new ring. Oh Jackie Harlow. And uh people have been heavily critical of his approach to how he's been rolling out the new album.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:14

Um, he did an interview with John Karamica from uh New York Times and some other white dudes, which first of all, I'm gonna start out with this. The optics of that interview that even everybody's talking about is wrong. Because you got this white guy, John has been writing. John's my man's fucked up. That's the homie. John is John is like, he been he's been writing about hip hop for one of the most respected journalists that we still have around, to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Right?

SPEAKER_06 46:39

He's a highly respected journalist, knows what he's talking about. But by nature of his birth, by the lottery of his birth, he was born a white man. He was. Right?

SPEAKER_05 46:47

Not his fault, not wrong. His name ends in the valley, he's not Nigerian.

SPEAKER_06 46:51

Right. You got this other white guy who I don't know, but I assume if he's up there having a conversation with an artist that's successful, successful as Jack Harlow, he's earned his place. Right. He's another white guy. Right. Now you got Jack Harlow, another white guy, because you got three white guys. Three whites. Three whites, three whites accomplished in our in the black space and respected in the black space. Yes. Talking about how black Jack Harlow, the I there's not one nigga in the room for this conversation because if a one black dude.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

I think that would have made it better.

SPEAKER_06 47:20

If not, if there's one black dude in the room, when he said my music is sounding blacker, blacker, yeah, there would have been at least a joke made or some sort of.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

I think the I think the I think the point he was trying to make, if I'm just being like, if I'm giving if I'm making way for some kind of understanding, I think the point he was trying to make, and it took me a minute to realize that because I watched it like four times before. Oh, me too. Before I called my nigga Lakey. I had to call Lake like, yo, what's up, man? So but but I think the point he was trying to make was um, you know, we often, it's the whole post Malone thing or kid rock thing where you start with these, you know, hip-hop nuances or influence, you actually rapping and wearing gold chains and shit, and then by your third album and some success, you decide to be a country artist and abandon that.

SPEAKER_06 48:07

Van Lathan calls them uh white vacationers. Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

He said they take a vacation in black culture. He was trying to he was trying to pinpoint the fact that I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'm not going, I I didn't do, I didn't do what those other artists did. I actually went blacker, but it just don't it's like a big thing. But you know why?

SPEAKER_06 48:25

Because if he had actually, if he had actually popped up with, and I'm not saying this because I want to do a song with Jack Harlow. Yeah, that's not the end of just but if he had popped up with a song with Talib or a song with Kamen or a song with instead of just the hat. So you don't want to do something. You know what I mean? He's like dressed like nigga.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

So you are you telling me that Talib Kwali doesn't want to do a song with Yaku Ka? Yaku Kwali.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

That's so wild.

SPEAKER_06 48:51

That's what they called them. Here's some other names that they called them. They called them Link Condition. They called them Neocolonial Soul. That shit was hilarious. They called them Music Stoll Child. IRS 1. IRS 1 and IRS One? Most definitely not. Which is fucking hilarious. They called them White Thought. Yeah. Ghost Face Vanilla. IRS One and Slum Privilege was the best one. Slum Privilege is I like that one. But it's just, you know, it's like you're wearing it as a costume. And I'll I'll tell you a story from People's Party stays. So People's This podcast is very black and very independent, right? On purpose. People's Party. I loved working on People's Party. I still have great relationships with all the Uprocks people and shout out to Jared and everybody who was involved in it. But also it's also very corporate. So they let me do stuff, but I had to like explain shit. So if I wanted to have like Ajah Monet, or we had Tori Russell on, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:50

For me to have this. When I saw that episode, I said, damn, yeah. Tyler got a boss up there? Like you wild.

SPEAKER_06 49:54

Right, but I had to go and tell them, explain to them like this is who this guy is, and this is why it's important for me to have this. You know what I'm saying? And it was a thing. And with this podcast, I don't have to do it. But also, they would come to me. Right. And they'd be like, yo, we have to have this person on. Right. And so one day they came to me and they were like, we have to have this dude, Jack Harlow. I was like, who is this? He was like, yo, trust us, he's going blow. Uh he's a white dude from Kentucky. He could rhyme. And I'm like, well, I know a lot of black dudes who can rhyme whack why can't because he's white. That's the reason we go. Right. Because that's what you're saying to me. Right. You're saying the deciding factor is because he's white. Right? And I don't think y'all realize that's what y'all saying to me. Right. But that's exactly what y'all saying to me. Two white boys saying this to me.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 50:36

You know what I'm saying? And I they got they caught them say, oh, that is what we're saying. Yeah. But then they start. Actually, this is what we're saying. So Monday, is that good or not? Right. No, but then they start coming with the with the talking points. He works with this person, works with this person. So I had to, I did my research and I'm researching him. And I decided to not do it. Because I was like, yo, if if y'all put in all this effort into this white boy, and because you're telling me he's going to blow up, you could put the same effort into an artist of color who's not getting the because a lot of people think, you know, a white person in hip-hop, he's gonna have it harder. No, no, no. White person in hip-hop's gonna have it easier. Macromore says this, Mac Mac Miller says this. People, already the rugged man says this. People really about the hip-hop, and Eminem says this. The Eminem says, you know, uh, uh, if I was black, I would have sold half. Yeah, being white makes it easier for me. Right. You're right. So um I was like, why are we doing this for Jack Harlow? He'll be fine. Yeah, there's somebody else we could uplift. Let's go talk to an activist or something. And so then Jack Harlow comes out with the record with uh Tori Lane's and Lil Wayne, everybody on the record. And um I really did like that record. So I remember being like, damn, yeah, maybe I should have done that. I should have done that. Jack Harlow's dope. I need to follow the show. Jack Harlow's just kind of dope, right? But so then I was thinking, okay, maybe they was right about that one. But then the spirit, then I realized they wasn't right because then I saw footage of Jack Harlow during the Kentucky Derby being carried over the mud by his all-black crew. Right? Now, again, it's that didn't sit well with you. It didn't sit well with me. It's optics. Like, these are young people, right? They don't have the historical lens I got. And the Kentucky Derby, you have a white suit on, you want to get your shit dirty with the mud. And if that's the dude who made it out the crew, yeah, we're gonna lift our brother up. But bro, it's the optics of what it looked like. I'm sure they didn't look at it on some racist shit. I'm sure they looked at it as we just helping the bro.

SPEAKER_05 52:32

I don't know if I've seen that clip.

SPEAKER_06 52:34

But it's like they can't go for me to see it. He's going from his trailer to the stage, and he got all these black dudes, and they carry him so his feet don't touch the ground like Jesus. Right? So he's like white hip-hop Jesus and the all-white Kentucky Colonel Sanders at the Kentucky Derby.

SPEAKER_05 52:49

With the Colonel Sanders on.

SPEAKER_06 52:50

So now you look like a plantation owner, too. Right. You know what I'm saying? Optics was terrible, bro. But again, I didn't hold it against him because I was like, they didn't mean that. Yeah, it just looked bad, right? But then the song comes out. I don't want no whips and chains. Now to my ear.

unknown 53:08

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_06 53:09

I'm I'm I'm let me land this as they stay in the West Coast. Let me land this plane. You know what I'm saying? To my ear, a white boy talking about whips and chains. You don't want the whips and chains. I know he's talking about SNL. You know what I'm saying? I get it. We it's kinky, it's sexy, I get it. And then he says I'm vanilla baby. And then you go I don't want the whips and chains, I'm vanilla baby. So now you're playing in my face. Now you play in my face. Now you and I I still don't think they're doing it intentionally.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 53:35

But there's a lack of there's a lack of historical perspective. There's a lack of conscious lensing, there's a lack of like someone around to be like, no, like if you want to put on the music soul child hat and the you know the common pants and you want to Technically it's a Dwele hat, but whatever. Dwele hat is whoa. Dwele. You could do that, right? But bro, you gotta go tap in with my dukes, yeah. You gotta go sit with Dwele, you gotta sit with James Poiser, you gotta do, you gotta sit with the soul, you gotta do it, and you might still get dissed. Right. But at least if you get dissed, like there's a lot of artists who, you know what I'm saying? Like, you might still get dissed, but at least us would be like, nah, he tried though.

SPEAKER_04 54:14

Yeah, I don't feel bad for any scrutiny that he gets. I think he's obviously part of what he did. I mean, he can't call the album my nickname and not expect somebody to say that. Did you know that part? Wait, wait, wait, wait, what? What now?

SPEAKER_00 54:25

He didn't know that part. What now? I was gonna bring it up.

SPEAKER_04 54:27

The name of the album is Monica.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Yeah, it's a joke. Say it slow from a white comedian who said Say it slow. People kept calling him Monica and he didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 54:33

Say Monica slow. Sound it out. Both syllables. Hello, uh all three syllables.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

My Jack Harlow ain't got no friends. Monica. This is the problem. Jack Harlow ain't got no friends, bro. Your friend's supposed to tell him. He does. So his manager, Lakey, is my brother, good dude, man. He said, no, he does. He does. He has friends. And I think people definitely, you know, attempted to tell him, like, man, you know, but it's it goes back to what we're talking about. And today, you know, negative attention sometimes, it's a conversation starter. And I think the attention that he's getting, the conversation that he's got as a result of the name of the album and the sound of the album has has actually benefited to people checking in for better or for worse.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

I feel like he's gonna have a song with Chet Hanks in a second, bro. Can I ask you this, Chase?

SPEAKER_05 55:21

When Chet Hanks gonna be checking, I told you my answer. My answer is that Tech Paul's next album needs to be a uh motherfucking uh uh heavy metal album, we're gonna call it Dwight.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

And I'm gonna come out love the vest, no shirt on under the drawings.

SPEAKER_05 55:35

Tech Pole Dwight.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

But let me ask you this, bro. When a situation like this happens, right? Because I I'm gonna preface this with this. I'm surprised that this is going this way with this Jack Harlow campaign because he was actually kind of like one of the more respectable white MCs. You know what I'm saying? So when a situation like this happens, uh how much of it from your perspective as an AR and as an executive behind the scenes is intentional, given the fact that it is such a data-driven game, such a clickbait-driven game, it's such a conversation-driven game. Yeah. How much of it is like, fuck it, man. It's going, it's negative attention, but everybody's talking about it, so who gives a damn?

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Jack Harlow is an extremely intelligent person. I think he's a obviously a gifted artist. And I refuse to believe that he didn't know that all of this shit was gonna happen. You know what I'm saying? I think, you know, he just, you know, and to be honest, it takes a lot of balls to be able to be like, fuck it. Like, what they're gonna say, like, and then also, and Quali's gonna love this, but it's it's also very indicative of the climate of America or the world when we we live in a time where our president has said far worse, way you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 56:57

Yeah, so it so if I'm Jack Harlow and I'm rationalizing it against what the motherfucker like Donald Trump says, it ain't so fucking bad. Like, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Like, yeah, so it and that, you know, it doesn't make it any better, but it also is like, you know, he's got the opportunity to justify by he's like, you know, because on one hand, it's like you we not put him in the same category as a Donald Trump, right? Or perceivably from his perspective. Nah, nah, there's this levels to it. So you're like, okay, so how bad is it?

SPEAKER_05 57:29

Monica, nigga, put that shit on the back. You know what I think it is?

SPEAKER_06 57:31

It's the it's the it's the it's the putting on the blackness and putting on the not just blackness, right? But putting on the positivity as a costume. Because it's like black people are the moral compass of America. When people start to do stuff like that, it's because they want to feel good. Black people have taught America how to feel good. They've taught America how to have joy, how to deal with adversity. Uh America knows how to celebrate and feel joy because of black culture.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

Right.

SPEAKER_06 58:01

You know what I'm saying? Um, and so when you say it's I think it's kind of parallel to what LaRussell's going through now, right? Because I like LaRussell, but I feel like the internet is like turning on him right now. He he did a thing where he was like, he was, he said that uh we all have a sense, right? Uh Donald Trump is heavy set. It was the order in which he did it, right? He said, We all have a scent. Martin Luther King is heaven's cent. Even Malcolm X is having set, even Donald Trump is having set, even Hitler is, even Jeffrey Epstein. And then even you. And even you, like, nigga, what you what?

SPEAKER_05 58:35

What would you mean?

SPEAKER_06 58:36

And you know, to me, I'm not angry that he said that. I think it was a little goofy that he said it. It's a semantic thing. I get what he was trying to say. We all God's children, we all come from God. And it doesn't mean the ability to decide. Yeah. Um, but I think what the problem is, is that he's trying to be positive for the sake of being positive in the song. There's no real depth or weight to what he's saying. What he's saying is I'm just a human being. We're all human beings. Well, no shit. That's not a profound point. Yeah, we're all human beings. Yes, we all, if you believe in God, yeah, we all come from God. What else you got?

SPEAKER_04 59:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:12

You know what I'm saying? And it's like he's with the way he set it up, like, I'm an artist. That's what he's saying. In the in the clip, I'm an artist. So I have to say what needs to be said that other people ain't saying.

SPEAKER_04 59:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:22

Ain't nobody saying that Donald Trump don't come from God or Jeffrey Evans.

SPEAKER_04 59:26

I think the issue in the brother La Russell, because I I I like La Russell too, but I think from his perspective or what he was trying to I mean, obviously we all know what he was trying to convey. Is it, you know, but even when writing, man, and I know you know this just as a writer, like, you still gotta like there has to be a way for you to tether yourself and look at what you actually wrote and see how it will affect people, even if you don't care. Because sometimes, you know, the art calls for that and for you not to consider somebody else and how you express yourself. And I I support that, I'm I'm in favor of that. But also you do need to have a lens sometimes on how it's going to land.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:12

It's the lack of the political education. I always say this with the Malcolm X grassroots movement, we weren't always on this. My politic is not the same, exactly the same as Dead Prez, and it's not exactly the same as David Banner, it's not exactly the same as Commons. But before we got on a stage, it was like, look, this is the goal, this is the code, this is what we on. And they're not these, I don't feel like I don't, I'm not, I'm not saying they're similar artists, but I think their mistakes are similar. I think the mistake Jack Harl's making is similar to the street.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

The crash out tour.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:49

Hands across the man explaining themselves tour.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

The we crashed out tour.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:53

The we crashed out tour. But I think the mistakes, there's a similarity in the mistake that you're speaking on something that you're not actually tapped into. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

I'm having a problem with skewing.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:07

It was very Kanye-esque, though. When I saw the Russell shit, I was like, Kanye would have leaned into the negative, toxic part of it. The Russell's trying to be like, look at how above board I am. Look at how I can I can look at every human being and not be a judgmental person. Right. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

I'm having a growing problem with stuff like that in hip-hop right now, though. To be real with you, though, dog. Like, it's a lot of cats bringing a religious uh functionality or moral functionality into the whole culture sometimes. And then they like issue like these blanket statements, like, well, I'm just trying to help everybody. I don't believe the same shit you believe, nigga. How you trying to help me? You know what I'm saying? Like, I might I believe in the political functioning of the society. People need to be able to eat, get jobs, stuff like that. Like, if you're gonna start talking about like a moral utility of the world, if you ain't starting there, you really ain't talking about shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just telling me your philosophy on what's gonna make me a better person. Like, all right, cool, that worked for you. That where I'm from, that may not, you know, apply to my lifestyle. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:14

What's what's what's crazy about this era and in the news cycle was like the person who's really like representing for the people in a way that is being paid attention to.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:28

It's Afro Man. I knew you were gonna bring him up.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

That's my dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:32

You know what I'm saying? The living legend is hilarious, bro. Yeah, legend. That nigga's hilarious. Yo, that's the man. I never heard that song until I actually watched parts of the trial. I was like, yo, this nigga is that shit happened years ago. That shit happened like five years ago. And here's the thing, but then politically, like you said, we may not agree politically because there's some points I'm like, yeah, bro, it's wild.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:54

Yeah, I'm rolling, Chase. I'm rolling with the tapping with dogs. And here's why I'm tapping. First of all, I gotta state white people love Afro men, yeah, particularly white women. Yeah, every white woman in my life, it's not many, but every single one of them sent me that video as if I don't know what's going on. You know what I'm saying? Like all the white women I know, all of them, and even the I know too. What y'all think about? Yeah, them too. It's the it's the American flag suit. Nah, I don't think it's the Mr. Don King costume. I'm telling you why white people love Afro Man, man, because because that song I got high, fucking Kevin Smith and you know what I'm saying, like stoner ass white boys love that shit. It's like that's I got high as part of white stoner culture. It is so white people just love Afro Man. Yeah and the way that he trolled the police, bro. They they for people who watching who don't know what happened, the police broke into his crib saying that they had warrants for kidnapping and drug trafficking and all this. They broke into his crib, broke a bunch of shit up, left.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

He asked for the money, stole the bread.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:02

$4,000. He or he did, all he did was like, yo, apologize. They said no. So he made a record talking about you gonna pay for my door? Lemon pound cake.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

And you all he said some of his pound cake out of his kitchen. His grandma's grandma's pound cake.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:16

And he made a song about it. No, I don't think they ate, they ate some of the cake. They stopped to look at the lemon cake. He said, Oh, they found all they found was lemon pound cake.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

His grandma's lemon pound cake. And then he made a song came.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

Then he made a song saying the female officer was a hoe. Bro, did you transvestite? Is that what he said? Yeah, he's the footage of transvest.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:40

Is that the right word? Transsexual.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:41

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:41

Listen, did you see the footage of them playing? Don't cancel me.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:44

They're man, this is take space, Chase.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:47

Trans, whatever you want to play. Trans person.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:50

Yeah, trans person. Transperson. Did you see the footage of them playing the song about the female cop in court? Yeah. And she started. Yeah. Yo, any nigga that makes you my hero.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

And she said, I don't have a penis.

unknown 1:05:06

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:08

No, I died. That shit was hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

I just like the way he stood his ground in court because they kept on saying that the lawyer kept on trying to press them on some like, why would you do this? And he said, Well, this doesn't start if y'all don't kick my shit in. You know what I'm saying? They were talking about the trauma, and we have so much trauma for hearing them songs.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:24

He said, I have trauma from y'all kicking my door in. Man, and he won. And that's he won against the police. That type of shit happens to people who are not Afro Man all the time. Afroman knows how to make a song and upload it and be engaging and charismatic. That type of shit happens to people who don't know how to do that all the time. So big up Afro Man for standing his way.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:46

Big up Afro Man for sure. Yeah, man. For sure, for sure. But you know, it's just funny that some people who support certain aspects of Trump's America also have fallen victim to certain aspects of Trump's America. That's that's kind of neat.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

As Razcats would say, the leopard is eating their faces. Yeah. Leopardy's face. Leopard's face.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

People getting what they voted for. That's how I feel. Yeah, man. You're getting what you wanted.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:10

LaRussell was connected with Rock Nation. You connected with Rock Nation. Yeah. Jay Z just put the um lot. Is that how you say it? Um lot. Is that the right thing? The two dots. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Above his uh only you would go figure out what that word is.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:25

Yeah, the um lot. Above the uh above the regular people, you know we have regular rap vocabularies. I don't know. It's like the two little dots above to make it Jay-Z. Whatever. But you work you work with Roc Nation, nigga. You should tell me.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

I have a partnership with Rognation. I have a partnership with Rognation for the management. Actually, now just on Benny the Butcher, but I have known Jay Brown for quite some time. Somebody I consider a friend and somewhat of.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:53

So call him up, ask him what the umlot's about.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:55

Jay, he'll be like, bro, why even call him about this shit? Like for real, he don't mean he don't even accept them type of calls. But yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know, but I but I think but I think didn't he didn't he maybe I'm wrong. The Jay-Z historians will correct me, but I think he put it back there.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:09

At one point it was It was on the Reasonable Doubt album. Okay. He took it off.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:13

And then he and then he took the hyphen out, and then he put the hyphen back in. And now for the anniversary of the Reasonable Doubt and the blueprint and the Roots Picnic announcements, they put the umlaut back on and well there you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:25

If if he's reliving or celebrating the era in which the um lot was um on the I think that's probably what it's symbolic of. But you know, Jay-Z's, I think I always have this argument with hip-hop about Brooklyn Jay-Z versus LAJ LA years Jay-Z. I was like, LA, LA years Jay-Z is kind of killing Brooklyn Years Jay-Z.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:47

Like the Brooklyn years Jay-Z set the foundation, incredible, unforgivable, like ridiculous. So y'all trying to take credit now? I'm not trying to, I'm just saying like this money evolved into it. He wasn't he wouldn't feed the kids liquid gold. He didn't even have kids. He wouldn't feed the kids liquid gold. He hadn't reached the multi-billionaire status, he hadn't had the hottest party during the Oscars took over the, you know, the gold party took over. Cloud, you got Clive Davies shit the fuck up out of here. He didn't dance, he didn't do so much to help so many artists, you know. You know, I just there's a lot of accolades in the LA years that didn't exist.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:23

So if we are if we are saying that Reasonable Doubt is a ringer of an album and is not allowed to compete, yeah. What's the best Jay-Z album to you? And to you. If Reasonable Doubt's not allowed to compete, because a lot of people just automatically say reasonable doubt. Oh man. Oh man. Some people might not feel that way. Some people might feel like blueprint is better than reasonable doubt.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Let me slow it down. I mean, I'm a blueprint dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

Blueprint and then black album, probably.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

I like both of those albums. I'm gonna go blueprint. And I like I like odd Jay-Z albums that don't nobody else like. Like I like uh American Gangster. I like like Volume One and American Gangster. Yeah, yeah. I love Volume One though.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

Yeah, yeah. I do too. There's some moments on there. But anyway, I'm generally a you know, a Jay-Z fan.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

So I gotta give King Kingdom Come, even though nobody would say Kingdom Come, I'm always gonna roll home team. My man B Money from the Crib did the intro on that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:21

I think Khalil did Mama Made It. Mama made it was on Kingdom Come, right? Yeah, Khalil.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Kingdom Come had some joints, but people was acting like it was terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

Kingdom Come had some smacks. Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:30

He had the uh very few Jay-Z albums that didn't have some smacks. They just, you know, as a fan, you probably go, oh, why'd he put that album on there? But he did things commercially. That's what Jay-Z's gift is to me. Like he'll do things commercially that you might understand right away. Like, you know, uh, you belong to the city. Oh, they like at first you're like, I'm I'm first here, I was like, man, why would Jay do this?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:52

You know what then is which one for me that was? The Forever Young. Forever Young. Oh, for real.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:57

Yeah, it's not my favorite, but you in the context of who Jay-Z is, it makes a lot of sense. You can't do Glastonbury without those types of records. Like, you know, it's just and he's always I think he's always had the foresight to see himself representing something um outside of what Reasonable Doubt represented, which is like I also love that Jay-Z and Jay Electronica album. Oh, I love it. I love it too. Me too. It's a conscious album, incredible album.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

That's the album.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:26

Jay's performance on there is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:28

I love it that's Jay-Z's God Body Coming Out part of the album. That's one of my favorite Jay-Z right there. Word.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

Hove on that album, crazy. Couldn't believe he was saying half the stuff he was saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:38

Yeah. Inshallah. That's it. But when we said that, I was like, Jay-Z, Jay out of here.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

I take the headphones off at first, like, whoa.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:45

Yeah, man.

unknown 1:10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

Straight up.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:48

That's the thing I think that makes Jay so popular, man. Aside from obviously being argued to be the most gifted MC ever. It's like, but it's like he got so many sides that, you know, as long as we've known him from a fan perspective, he's still things he can 444, you know, the shit that he can still reveal or put into a perspective that is hard to articulate for other artists. Yeah, man. Him and him and him and Nas, man, they're kind of a league of their own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:15

Nas stepped up his business just so much. Nas didn't focus on the business at all. Yeah. And just focused on the art and being an ill lyricist. But when he stepped into the business side of Nas, a whole nother thing. He went straight tycoon. Yeah, crazy. Yeah. Proud of what he's able to represent for the culture.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:31

Incredibly, like, just you know, happy to see that shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:34

Yeah, Massapo's a good situation. Um, yeah. Shout out to Peter. Shout out to Shout out to Peter and the whole rest in peace, Sasha Jenkins. Well, rest in peace, Sasha Jenkins. Yeah, man. Um now, I need some new Haroon gear. Okay. I need some hats. I wish you'd told me that before I came over here. I just brought you a bunch of shit. You know what I'm saying? I might have to go over there. I should have known. Um, Haroon was closed for a year, right? It was. Man, shout out to Haroon Coffee. Yes. Uh, it's more than a cafe. It is. It's like the heart and soul of Lamert Park was become like that. Uh, culture is protected there. I've seen you did a thing with Terrence Martin there. Yeah, man. I seen Stevie Wonder, pictures of Stevie.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

How did Stevie Wonder end up in there? A man's crazy. So Estelle, our good, our sister, Estelle, she actually lives in Lamert.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:20

Okay, she's from London, but lives in Lamert. I met Estelle at Deal Real Records in London. She was working the counter. Wow. And I did an in-store there. She's like, I rap.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:30

That's very.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:30

And then I got her number and she put me on a song with her and John Legend. Crazy. And this is pre-this is John Stevens.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Pre-American boy and all that stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:38

So she lives in Lamert and she's actually really good friends with Stevie and his wife. And she comes all the time. She had her, she came by for her birthday, and she's been a supporter of her room since we opened. Uh, because she's lived in Lamert as long as I've had the coffee shop. And uh so Stevie Wonder shows up and I'm calling, you know, I called Warren Campbell, I called Tim Henshaw, I called a bunch of people that I know work with Stevie. I'm like, Did you tell this thing about Haroon coffee? They're like, nah, but I'm glad he's there. I'm on my way. You know, people coming by, and then Estelle showed up. I was like, nigga, Stevie Wonder's here. She's like, I know. I said to him.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:09

I was like, uh, how do you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:11

She's like, I told him and his wife to come by. I was like, oh shit. I didn't even think about it. So she actually told Stevie about her own coffee. Stevie Wonder comes by is having you know biscuits and coffee with, you know, I had to ask his brother to move his seat. Um, he was like, and it's now that the dude who I asked to move his seat comes in all the time. I was like, I can't believe I had to. He's like, man, you helped me, you, you, you, you spark memories of my childhood, man. I gave up my seat to Stevie Wonder. That's right. So yes, and Terrace is a always been a friend of the coffee shop in my, you know, one of my actual brothers. We both have um children that are on the spectrum. And we talk very often just about, you know, the difficulty of being a parent to a neurodivergent child. And you know, and it's somebody I just picked Terrace, you know, has a lot of wisdom and just a good dude. So I I talked to him a lot about just life. And then uh and he's always and he grew up, you know, at World Stage and honed his craft at World Stage was owned by Dwight Bibbs, and he mentioned Billy Higgins earlier. Right. We had Georgia give us the whole history of World Stage yesterday. Were and so his um his relationship with the World Stage and Lemur Park is something that's way beyond me. But because we're there and have become like this sort of an institution in Lamur, like every year, he'll just call me like I'm doing two nights. Yeah. Free, pull up. And last time he came was during the opening weekend, the reopening, because we closed for a year to remodel. Uh I formed a new partnership with a brother named Prophet Walker and Sharon Hall, um, who own a company called Community Labs, who are doing some you know, uplifting in the community and kind of changing the face of a lot of businesses. Um I did a partnership with them and Terrace came out. And Terrace brought Ronald Brunner, uh Kennedy Crouch, who's uh a friend of mine, who was on Keys for a while. He had fucking uh Keon Harold who who I didn't even know this until four years ago. My you know my aunt told me that we're related, we're actually cousins because he's from St. Louis. He's from St. Louis. Yeah, so it's so it's Keon. Yeah, my mother's from St. Louis.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:17

Oh, Keon, uh Keon Harrell? That's a picture. Oh, that's my my my dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:20

Yes, yeah, we actually got a two cousins and I didn't know. You cousins with Keon? Yeah. His mom from St. Louis. My mom's from St. Louis.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

So that means uh Emmanuel is your cousin.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:28

Yeah. That's his brother. But I didn't, I know, but I didn't, I had no idea until like maybe like four years ago. My mother's my mother has seven brothers and sisters, and my father had 15. So I got a big family. Sometimes you you'll meet, you know, Kwali been knowing me for long. I'm sure this nigga done met a hundred niggas probably and came up to him, like, yeah, I'm Chase's cousin. You know my cousin Chase. Like sometimes you think they're joking, but I got a bunch of cousins, and Keon is one of them. So Keon came and I had you know contemporary jazz legends at her own. That's insane. We changed one side into like a speakeasy. I got like a speakeasy door that goes between the coffee shop and uh what we consider the speakeasy. So it was it was it was really dope, man. You gotta contextualize that for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:10

That's like saying, like, yeah, the new Miles Davis is my cousin, man. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:13

Trust me, I was I was already a fan and was like, wait, who? For real? Did you ever see that footage of Keon's son? Uh that's how I found out. That's how you found out that whole situation went viral.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

Did you know about that? That's how I found out my Aunt Danita called me and was like, You know that's your cousin. I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, we got in we got involved with that uh org back at the time. And then when I was working with Georgia, when I was managing Georgia, Georgia's booking agent, Maurice, is Keon's booking agent. So we actually really we got connected through that relationship and you know got to know each other and you know from now time to time now. I'll call him and harass him to come down or take this shit like that. I got a show with Keon. I had no idea, but yeah, that's that's fam, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:59

Damn. I want to read a quote of yours back to you. Oh and this will be the last question. Thank you for watching. No, this is actually a very recent quote. Oh fuck. He said the people who designed Lemert never intended for us to live here. Very true.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:15

Unpack that for us. Walter H. Lamer hired the sons of uh Rudolph Olmstead, um, twin sons of the Rudolph Olmstead, uh I think it's Randolph, maybe. Uh Olmstead designed Central Park. So a little bit about Los Angeles. Los Angeles, if you gotta read a book called City of Quartz, of Quartz, Q-U-A-R-T-Z by Mike Davis. Um and it kind of gives context to Los Angeles culturally. Los Angeles is a wayward city where people from counter-religious movements, religious movements, counter-political movements, political movements actually came to with an intent to create an industry or create something. Uh Walter H. Lamert was from the East Coast. Um, he was a member of the pact of people that came out here with the intent to you know take advantage of the resources in the landscape. Land was cheap. Um so when he developed Lemoert Park, um, so the same man that developed uh Central Park on the East Coast uh designed and developed by way of Walter H. Lemour designed Lemourte Park, which is why it's called Lemourte Park. Um but the the original bylaws of Lemourt Park stated, I think it was clause number 16 and all the clauses of the of the neighborhood. Uh he never intended for a person of color to live in LaMer unless you were a butler mayor servant. Um there's something called it was um Shelley versus Roe, uh 1948 was the end of the red zoning laws. Um the red zoning laws famously prevented black people from living in certain areas in America. Um and after 1948, when that was that ruling was overturned, black people started to move around a little bit, but still economically couldn't live in certain areas. The area that is Lemur Park is technically in the Crenshaw district. Um and that area was inhabited mostly by rich white people, you know, the the guy Baldwin who owned who who owned the ranch for Baldwin Hills and all this shit. It never really intended for black people to live there. Um so we had to sublease uh through white families or really Japanese families because they're after the uh the camps on World War II, a large contingency of Japanese people came to Lamer first before droves of black people came there. And yeah, so it was never really intended for black people to live there unless you're a brother made or servant. And probably still wouldn't be as as a stronghold for black people in LA if it wasn't for uh the 1965 Watts revolt or riot. Um so that that caused what we something we call white flight. Um white flight, why all the white people who were traditionally landowners, homeowners there, uh felt it was in too close proximity to Watts after that type of revolt. So you started seeing a lot of people flee out. And then Lamer actually got established by um the art the black artistic um um community, social political movements, artists, and then to you know, there's something they don't talk about all very often, but um black uh gay males helped establish Lamur Park. You know, they they they don't talk about that a lot, but that's actually the contingency of people. And my father always told me when you're thinking about, and this is gonna be this is gonna be controversial, but he always said when I started making a little bit of money, he was like, if you think about investing, always invest where artists and gay people go because they're usually the vanguard of gentrification. And I was like, damn, I used to trip off that, like this nigga be saying some wild shit. But if you think about it, it's probably the you know the truth. So when you talk about Dale Davis and the Brockman gallery and his brother, and you know, you can, you know, where people like um you know famous black artists were first um discovered. Um you talk about Eric Dolphi, you talk about Billy Higgins, you talk about Horace Tapscott, like you know, you became just this place where artists that had that felt as though they had a responsibility to the to black people um came from and were headquartered. But yeah, they were never they never intended, or Walter H. Lamert never intended for black people to live there unless they were butler made or servant. Damn.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:56

Surprise, nigga. So now 79% black homeowners. Nigga, we all black businesses is all over the place.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:03

Yeah, man. Lamert Park is a very uh integral part of LA culture for black people. And um, yeah. I'm glad you're there. I'm glad you're you. Thank you, brother. Uh love and appreciate you.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:16

Likewise, one of my one of my real friends, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:18

I tell I tell you that all the time. Yeah, man. Spending so much time with us, your time is very valuable. Likewise. And uh, we're proud to have you on.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

Yeah, and I'm just flipping up. Chase Infinite is an honorary STL. We might be cutting his family in St.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:34

Louis, you know.