Episode 24 - Sam Jay

Episode 24 of Lemme Ask You This with Talib Kweli and Tef Poe features comedian Sam Jay and starts off with a conversation about justice vs revenge. Sam talks about how Talib's presence brings levity and Talib and Sam reminisce about Sam's appearance on People's Party. Sam Jay talks about not writing ideas down and how comedy should never feel like school. Talib asks about Black Jeopardy and Sam talks about the SNL machine. Tef asks Sam about Boston hiphop and Sam breaks down the Black Boston scene. Tef talks about how smart street folks in Boston are and Talib talks about not being able to wear a Yankee cap in Boston. Sam talks about Boston style racism. Talib praises Sam's show, Pause, and the conversation becomes about cancel culture. Sam talks about how people try to police language and jokes and how racism is usually not intentional. Tef talks about why people invest in MAGA and Sam talks about how republicans are better at marketing. Talib breaks down the impact of slavery and Sam talks about the need for a Black constituency. Sam suggests going to the UN and Tef tells his UN story.  Talib asks about how Tef and Sam spent their 4th of July and then talks about how homophobia helped drive some Black folks to Trump. Sam talks about how younger generations are returning to older values and how having empathy is important. Sam discusses how resistance to change is dangerous for humanity. Talib talks about how MAGA wants Trump to be king. Tef asks Sam about how she became a thought leader. Sam credits her mother as inspiration. Talib asks Sam's opinion on the roast of Kevin Hart. Talib asks Sam about why she shares so much of herself in her comedy.

Shot and Edited By Chino Chase. Additional Filming By Aaron Ross Media Co.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Which side are you on? You don't have to fancy. Which side are you? You don't have to fancy. Which side are you? Which side are you on?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

That's how you win arguments. Like when people just when there's nowhere to go?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

That's exactly right. When when when you um um when the nigga um Ted Kacinski blew up all that shit, he was a domestic terrorist, and he went to Harvard, and they were like, yo, you went to Harvard, you're smart, you're brilliant. Like, how can you justify taking a life because you want to support the environment? He said, I can't. Yeah. It's not justice, it's revenge. I just want to get these things. You're done. And I how could you argue with that?

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Nigga, I was arguing with the nigga in my building, the concierge, or they was like, yo, people can't part to drop our food. I'm like, how the fuck are we supposed to get the food? And I'm arguing with the nigga, and I said, Where's the logic in this? He said, logic has nothing to do with it. Oh, well, all right.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Well, we're done.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

It's OVA.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

You went.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

That's like fighting somebody that believes that God told them that they were specifically supposed to defeat you. Yeah. Never fight a person that believes that God specifically fight you. You can't fight them? Oh, they gonna go out.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

They're gonna get a straight from something they never had.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

You can't argue. That's why I be that's why I be telling these gay niggas. Like, if someone's like really like yelling at you, like, yo, you gonna burn the hell for being gay, what you gonna tell them? What you what you arguing with this person about?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

When we did People's Party, one of my favorite interviews I ever did was with you, and we did People's Party, and you was like talking about uh church, and and and he was like, Why are you trying to force these people to be in church? Just start your own gay ass church.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

That's real.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

We can't make day church gay, baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

You know they don't fuck with gay shit. But you can definitely make your own church, but you can make your own gay church.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Ladies and gentlemen, let me ask you this. I am Talib Kwali. I'm Tef Pope. And we have the wonderful Sam J. It's my people right here. Where's my camera? We have Sam J. What's up, what's up, what's up? They don't know that we really hang out like that, Sam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're one of my favorite people to hang out with. You're a great hang. You're an awesome hang too.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah, man. You bring levity and balance to the hang. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. I couldn't. You always, you always like, we be hanging, and then you'll be like, but remember.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I think so. I don't know if that's accurate. I think that's what people think when they see me. Don't forget. Yeah, people, people, when I do songs. Your presence does that. Yeah, I do songs with a lot of rappers. And um, every rapper I've ever done a song with drops a super conscious verse. So I got a song with Waka Flocca. It's the most conscious you ever heard Waka Flocka. I got a new album with Lars uh Professor, Song with Havoc from Mob Deep. And you know, that first Mob Deep album, Juvenile Hell, they were a lot more conscious than the second one. But I'm we getting conscious havoc. So I appreciate the fact that my presence gets a certain weight and levity, like you said. Your presence demands it.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I'm getting wild, I look at you, I go, Tyler Kwali is watching. Tyler Kwali is watching.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Tear your face on a shirt like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Start pushing a white woman above me. Get on me.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Uh, what's uh uh what's that song that Kanye song back in the day when he used to rap about me and most like that on that first album? Like, I gotta look, oh, Kali and Mose is watching. Yeah, that was just the vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. I'm trying to think of the bar, but I know he's talking about. Yeah, I gotta give a shot to most definitely. But I don't remember what the bar was before he, because he was on some fuck shit on the bar before. Yeah, and then he was like, I gotta get right. Yeah, yeah, I gotta get right. Um, thank you for doing People's Party, by the way. Um you you helped me at a time when I needed it. I don't know if you recall this, but the show I had moved away from the studio situation in Hollywood, and we didn't have the same deal that we had. But the show was still important, and I still wanted to bring it to the people. So I was doing a bunch of shows in the Blue Note. And I I don't know if you know this, but I think you were the first person. You were the first person I called. Oh, wow. Yeah, you were the first guest we had on the new iteration of people. So doing it with you in that episode got me to do it for another year.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Well, I was thinking about that shit uh in the bathroom, because I remember when I had to call you, and I was like, bro, I fucked old girl and I can't come through the show. And then you was like, because she ain't on the show no more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, shout out to old girls. I was avoiding you, and I was like, I can't be avoiding my man. This is crazy. I gotta just tell my nigga what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I definitely rem remember, I definitely remember uh you saying that. But what's funny is that uh like like I called you and you said and you you you came clean to me. You was like, I can't front, I can't do it. You gave me the reason. I said, Well, she's not on the show. You said, I'll do it. But thank you for um yeah, like like people, the way that you did that was very respectful and it wasn't messy.

unknown 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

And I'm glad that we could talk about it years later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you didn't do it in a messy way.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, I wasn't trying to make any mess. I also was ashamed, you know? I was like, I gotta call my man and tell him my my messy shit. You know what I'm saying? But I was like, I gotta do it because I was like, I'm I was kind of avoiding you and that didn't feel right. And I was like, bro, I just gotta just tell him what the fuck it is.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

We all got messy shit.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Y'all met last night? Yeah, we smoked the J. We smoked some of that Urkel with Urkel.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, yeah. Yo, yeah, shout out to Jaleel White. Um, shout out to Issa Lee, who's uh a new smoker. He passed you over.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

The big homie, Isaiah Lee. The big little homie.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

He um didn't give you the blunt and you checked him.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Oh, yeah, that was wild that he did that to me. That was I was like, yo, this way white. He had to learn, though. He had to learn, though. He needed that lesson.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Because I'm not gonna front. Like, I've known Issa grew up around here, and we're in Yellow Springs, and he's Dave Chappelle's homeboy. Dave Chappelle was actually friends with his pops. Oh, okay. So he's like the young and I've never seen Issa smoke or drink until I've known Issa for 20 years. I ain't seen him smoke or drink until the last two, three years. This is like a new thing for him. Wow. Like I'll see him take a shot, like you take shots now. So in the car with Sally, he hit the blunt. And Sally's still in the backwards, too. But he hit the blunt. And um Wow. I didn't mean to backward shame anybody, you know. Like I was about to say. Lacino pulled his shit out of the way. I was about to say. That's my religion. I had to I had to qualify my statement. I don't mean to backward shame. Don't you know what I'm saying? But um, but yeah, Issa, so his his blunt etiquette, his his his rotation etiquette is a little off. It was wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

That was wild. It was a full skip. It was a full skip. It was a full just like over me. I was like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah. But you know what I like? You a real person. You know what I'm saying? Like, there is no, the character is you. Right, right, right. Even in that moment, you like, yo, what's up, nigga? Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

It's kind of what makes you hip-hop. I think that's where our worlds overlap. Because you were a comedian, you're a writer, you know, director, all this type of things. But you are hip-hop. Like, you're a writer, award-winning writer that doesn't write. That's like Jay-Z.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah, yeah. Yo, even when I was so crazy, I was just doing, you ever, you know, my mama told me podcasts. Yeah, yeah. I was just doing a podcast. That's why I heard you say that. Yeah, just like. You don't write, I was like, Don't write. They edited it because Lacey was bad. Because you know, Lacey used to be like the head writer of my show. And he's been a lot cool chiller. And I was like, yo, you you've calmed down a lot. Okay. And he was like, yo, I had to be so rigid because you and Jack were so wild. And he was like, this bitch got a whole show and don't write. I was like, y'all never see him pull out a laptop. And I'm like, bro, I be, I'll be, you know, I be writing. So just a little bit. But I don't write it. It's much deeper than text. Yeah, I'd be I'll be up here with it. Yeah. I'd be up here with it, and I'll jot down a couple of notes, you know what I'm saying? And then I'll I'll just, you know, get to it.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

I'm kind of like that with my rhymes. I write, but it ain't like you're gonna really catch me sitting up full speed writing some raps. Like, I got stuff to do. It's in my head somewhere, you know. See how I write.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

I'm not studious. I've never been studious. I'm not like a school nigga. Like, I don't like that shit. I don't like that type of structure. I've always kind of bucked that system. So, like, the minute like niggas make comedy feel like school, I'm out. I'm like, nah, bro, I'm not gonna be sitting here. I'm not one of the niggas, like, I wake up at nine, I write for two hours every day, and then I it's like, nah, it just gotta kind of flow. Like, if it starts feeling like class, I don't wanna do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

We gonna I want to talk to you a little bit about uh SNL, but what you just said made me think of one of my favorite uh Black Jeopardies. I wanna talk about the Black Jeopardy stuff. Um, when Keenan was talking about when uh Sterling K. Brown was doing Common.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And he was he was doing how Common be rap rapping, and Keenan was like, it's like church and school at the same time. Shout out to Common. That's my guy. Um I don't think we talked about I had I didn't go back to watch it. I should have done my research and watched our old conversation. But I don't think we talked about the um that the the Chadwick Bozeman, uh, the Black Jeopardy skit. Uh probably not. Okay, um, let's talk about it. How did that how did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

I mean, like, anything at SNL, you just kind of be chilling in your office. There's someone will bop by and be like, hey, you want to jam on this sketch? Or I got an idea, you know. Black Jeopardy, to be clear, was already a thing. You know what I mean? And it was a it was uh from Chay and Tucker. So Brian Tucker and Che came up with it. You know what I mean? So when Chadwick came, they wanted to do a Black Jeopardy, they usually call one up anytime there's a black guest. They'll be like, hey, maybe we should see if a Black Jeopardy could get in there. And Tuck just, me and Tuck were writing different things together at that point. We had jammed on a few things. We we had done that Adam Driver joint where uh it's like a white nationalist rally where they're like, we looking for a white state where we could just do what we want. We need to create a place. And then he keeps going, like, hey, we could, we could just go to Vermont. That we did that together. We did uh Melaney Cha-Cha Slide together. So at that point, you know, we had a rapport with each other, and he was like, hey, you wanna um come help on this Black Jeopardy shit? Because at that time, too, Che was also headwriting. So he, you know, he'd be hella busy. So Che wrote on that too, but you know, Tug was like, you know, if you got some time, come through and throw some jokes on it. Right. And I just went through and threw some jokes on it. It's like casual like that at SNL. I know people think it's super like, but it's it's really just a think tank type vibe, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, man, I'm such a fan of that show. Um, was your experience there a net positive? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because a lot of people have uh criticism of the culture as now has it changed over the years.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it is what it is. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think sometimes we, I don't know. I think motherfuckers come into some shit and they think they're gonna make it bend to them. And it's like, no, this machine is what it is. You know what I'm saying? I always used to tell people, like, the show is coming on Saturday at 11:30 or whatever the fuck, no matter what happens. Right. A nigga could die in here. I promise you. But someone could die. They're gonna take you out the fucking back, and that show's coming on. And that countdown is gonna start. Yeah, the it's a beast that must eat. Whether you show up or not, how many seasons you around? Bro, this is this is what I knew for a fact. Nothing will stop the show. So it was a Christmas, Christmas episode. Kyle Mooney and Beck Bennett wrote this uh sketch, and it was like a manger sketch. So they had a camel. So the guy, the camel guy, shows up.

unknown 12:07

The camel guy.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

The camel guy shows up, because they can bring it in a real camel. It's middle, middle of the day, Saturday, we're running around getting ready for sketches, doing what we gotta do. The dude lied about the the height of the camel's hump. The camel gets stuck in the hallway on eight. The camel's stuck. Wow. The camel is stuck. So we literally are being told to divert, like go a different way, because there's a camel stuck on eight. So now we like, oh, that sketch is chopped. They ain't got no camel. This shit is this shit is done. This nigga Lauren says, call the llama guy.

unknown 12:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

They call a llama nigga, put the camel to sleep, take the camel out on the stretcher, bring in a llama, and the sketch, and the sketch goes on. The show's gonna happen, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, this regards it.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Bro, the show's gonna happen. Yo, the question I wanted to ask you being from Dorchester, me, I'm kind of like a Bostonian transplant. I went to Boston and never came back, kind of type thing from the Midwest. Uh the hip hop scene, the artistic scene, the black scene out there, right? People don't know how live it actually is, right? Yeah. And it's actually kind of shocking when you get there, you're like, yo, it's niggas out here. Yeah. And they are doing it. Like, they're really creative, they're really pushing the line. Um, one of the dopest MCs out of Boston, Oompa, the homegirl, she's leading the whole movement out there. If you've never seen an Oompa show, you really ain't seen a hip-hop show.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah, Oompa. You know what I'm saying? You got real P out there, DJ.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Still.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Stars, yep. Yep. So, what do you think the ingredients are that make black Boston so special, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Cause it's been historically a a place for black radicalness that people just forget. You know, like anytime someone's like, oh, there's black people in Boston, I'm like, bro, like the first abolitionist press, all that comes out of Massachusetts, it comes out of Boston. You know what I'm saying? When Frederick Douglass was writing all these papers, where is he living? You know what I mean? Like the first uh black Mason and the first black Masonry law started in Boston, Massachusetts. Malcolm X started his first independent mosque in Boston, Massachusetts. So it's like it's historically been a place and a ground for this type of stuff. And we've been there since the beginning. I mean, Christmas Addicts died in the Boston Revolution. That's the first nigga they teach us about. Right. You know what I'm saying? So Boston, it's in the DNA of the city. You know what I'm saying? And Boston is a like a generational city. Like any, if you're from there, you've from there four or five generations. You've been there. Yep. You know what I'm saying? And in the black community, we really know each other. You know what I mean? So I think it's just like that cook and that history and that knowledge itself that we kind of all grow up with, mixed with a place that is highly educated, you know, the top colleges in the nation or in the city. And as a result of that, kind of the way we are educated and the way they they are forced to divest in the community as a result of being in the community, just lends a lot to the uniqueness of our personality. I always say Boston got the smartest thugs I know. Like the most intelligent niggas yo ever meet. I had from Boston.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

I went to Harvard on a hip-hop fellowship, non Zero Jobs Fellowship. And then I had an American Democracy Fellowship. But when I first got out there, I'm like, yo, I ain't finna spend all my time in Cambridge, I'm out. You know what I mean? So I got to go into Roxbury, Mattapin, Dorchester. I damn near lived in Dorchester. So when I got out there, I started meeting straight thugs, like grimy Boston guys putting in work. But what made them so unique to me was they could tell you so much about the Revolutionary War and all the history of the people, the constitution. Niggas be smart. It was mindful.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

And want to debate you. For sure, for sure. Shout out to Ed OG. Ed OG. You know, just the black United leaders living directly on Groovy Sounds, the Bulldogs. That was, you know, what this I got to have it and be a father was early. Yep. Blueprint, foundational conscious hip-hop, uh guru coming out of Boston. You know, shout out to Acrobatic, the source, the source being started. Yeah. And that was a Harvard thing, right? Yeah, yeah, Dave. Um, to what you were saying. It was a Harvard Hood thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yeah, yeah, but that's that's just what I'm about to say.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Uh you said, like I made me think, the way you speak makes me think of the book, too much uh Too Much Schooling, Too Little Education. Because, like you said, you're not an academic. You don't even move in that way. Yeah, but you are extremely knowledgeable. Yeah, you have a lot of knowledge, and that's what you're talking about, where people are not in the academic and the halls of these colleges, but they still got all this knowledge, and that's that's where you get like uh King uh King and Malcolm X and all of them going through this Boston uh system. Yep. Um yeah, Boston is a man, a very, very uniquely American person.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Yes, I mean it's the start. Yeah, it's the start. It's a hotbed for everything. You know what I'm saying? When you think about like shit, it's like as much as people are like, yo, Boston is racist, it's this, it's like, yeah, it's that, but then the first black NHL player plays for the Brewers, the first black basketball player plays for the Celtics. You know what I'm saying? Like the first state to uh legalize gay marriage. It's this progressive ass, segregated ass, like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

It's just like I'll say this though, all these things. As a New Yorker, I'm somebody, I just by default wear New York Yankee hats. I'm not even really into sports like that. I'm just, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, just wear USA Louis. I would have I wear the New York hat from Boston.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

No, Boston people will stop you in the street. Not doing it. They will jump. They will stop you in the street and address it. Yeah, and confront and become a person.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

It depends, it depends on the energy. They like nickel. It depends on the energy right now. Always. But it's like if if we play in the Yankees that day, we'll take that very personal. If you walk around here, if we're playing that day, we'll take that very personal.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah, and that's the energy I got one day. And it must have been a game that day or something, because one day, because people, the energy was like, You really gonna just do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

You know what I'm saying? We don't, we don't fuck around. Like my girl, you know, she from New York, so she'll sometimes she'll be like, yo, this Yankee hat fly. I'm like, it's dope, but I can't wear it. And she's like, stop being ridiculous. I'm like, no, I cannot put that on my head. Like I cannot do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I walked in, I walked into a place that's like home for me in Boston, right? Like, I got a key to this house. Walked in. They opened the door. I had the New York, I had a green New York Yankee hat on. They say, yo, we hate you right now.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Like, what are you doing? Oh, yeah, because you had the green on. Take that off. Yeah, it's like you're playing in their face or something. Yeah, take that off. Um, like I said, I don't follow sports like that, but I've been seeing in the news this guy, Jalen Brown. Um, he was on the Celtics, right? Okay, I don't really know about it. Apparently he was traded without his knowledge. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Oh, he probably knew he was gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I think he knew. He knew. He's acting like he didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

It's one of the worst trades in the world. People are not happy about it.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

I don't think he's acting like he didn't know. More than I feel like Jalen ain't saying shit. It's everybody else that's like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Well, I saw him, I saw a post where he made where he said I tried my key and my key didn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Right, which sounds to me like Well, he can't say he didn't know because he's been kind of wild on the internet. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

I think I think outside of him saying things, you know, I think they were looking at the team and trying to figure out some stuff. And I think everyone was kind of aware of that, but it's kind of the way they went about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

And the fact that they just didn't get shit for him.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

The merchandise they got back then. Yeah, he's like a top shit as a Celtics fan.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

So it's just like, if you're gonna get rid of my guy, get something, and we didn't get shit. I heard him say we got Paul George. You said it. We ain't get shit, bro. We didn't get shit. Most inconsistent player, like, we didn't get shit. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's fucking trash, bro. You ain't sorry about that. Niggas ain't. I really don't give a fuck. Niggas is not selling that shit. Niggas is not. I was telling my man, I'm like, yo, ain't nobody in the city gonna fucking. I was ready to go out there and protest, bro. Like, that's how fucked up this trade is. It's real fucked up. I was telling my man, I was like, yo, if you see a nigga in a Paul George jersey in a town, he's a cop. Ain't nobody from the town putting that shit on.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Nobody. So I bring it up because I seen this dude, Jalen Brown, talking about, uh, and to justipose what you said, something you said on that podcast that we were just talking about. He was talking about fans in Boston, and he's like, oh no, they're gonna call you the N-word. Like, and he talked about the stuff he was going through. Oh, Tristan Thompson, right? And was it Tristan saying it or was Jalen saying it? Maybe it was Tristan saying. It was Tristan. It was Tristan. Just recently on. Yeah, like a couple weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. But it made me think of what you said about the white people in Boston and how they scrappy. They're scrappy as fuck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

But also, like, I always fuck I gotta say this, and it's not in defense of anybody. But like, when niggas be saying that shit, I'm like, people gotta put that shit in perspective. Because as a black Bostonian, you know, I'll go somewhere and they'll be like, yo, y'all just be sitting there while white people are just screaming nigga and y'all don't say nothing. And it's like, fuck no. That's not what's happening. I go to plenty of Celtic games. I've never heard that. So I'm like, maybe they're yelling it when these niggas is in a tunnel or something, man. Maybe they're doing it. I'm not gonna say they're not doing it. But they not recognized.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

And I ain't never had no white boys walk up to me like, hey, you fucking. I'm like, I didn't know I have one into some bars where I walk into the bar just being a person that's not from there, and they'd be like, yeah, yo, this ain't where we're supposed to be, probably. You know what I'm saying? Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

And you know certain parts of the city, but I feel like that's anybody's fucking city, dog. I mean, yeah, we got we got racist Irish bars right smack dab in the middle of the city. That's what I'm saying. You know. Like, no, like when niggas like, yo, I was in Southie and they called me a nigga, it's like, nigga, what the fuck was you doing in Southie?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Right. But some of that, some of that is like. What are you doing? Some racism in America is like street culture. I hate to say it though, right? So, like, I could understand it coming from a place that's got like a trillion and one gang, right? So I could I go to a place, they like, yo, we don't fuck with niggas that's like you in here. Well, you know, like the Irish get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

The Irish and the Italians and the the ones in Boston particularly, they just now recently became white. You know what I'm saying? That's what it is. That's that's what that's what you relate to about the experience.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

But I'm cool with on defined lines type shit. Like when I'm in LA and people are like, hey, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. Cool. I don't have to do this.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

So you be checking in. I don't want to go there. I'm checking in. I don't want to go there too. I don't want to go there too. Like, I I I forget what I heard like make that point, but it's like some of this shit is like, let it be whites only. I don't want none of that shit. I don't want to eat what y'all eating over there. I don't want to listen to what you listening to over there. I don't want to be over there. Be over there doing your thing. Oh my god. You know what I'm saying? But it's not crazy. Like, people like, how was it? And racist bar, like, I wasn't getting chased home and rops and no shit thrown at me. Like, where there's some white girls that I had to fight, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Yeah. But that, like, I don't think that's in your mind, too.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I don't think that was unique to, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

I feel like my white homies would trip off the racism harder than I did in Boston. Like, that was my issue. The progressive white homies that I would hang out with getting so riled up over racist shit. And I'm like, look, bro, where I'm from, they got guns and shit everywhere. This is a walk in the park. This ain't shit. This is this is hanging out with my legs crossed.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yo, and that's the thing, like, I think Boston also rides with Boston. You know what I mean? I think when you're really a person from the city, you know what I'm saying? People who like know you from the town, it's like, yo, we all from the town. You know what I mean? Like, I'm I used to work at this bar on Boylston Street, and I was a bathroom attendant, right? And it's uh, this white girl came from like the suburbs, like situated or some shit. We could tell she was like not from the city. And she just she did some wild shit and called me a nigger and just ringing the bathroom. And the other girls that work at the bar found out about it, and they was like, yo, and like five white bitches ran down on her and beat her the fuck up. Like, yo, you don't do that. You know what I'm saying? So it's, I don't know how to explain it, but it's not crazy how people be trying to trying to make it seem.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, yeah. I've told you this before, but your show Pause is one of my favorite things I've ever seen on TV. Thank you. It's so black, it's so powerful, it's so unique, it was ended too quickly, for my opinion. Um I think For all those reasons. Yeah, there you go, there you go, there you go. Um, I think you might have been, you might have been too early calling it pause. Because you and me talked about this before. When you called it pause, pause had already been a thing in the hip-hop world for a decade plus. Yeah. We we we had we had already said pause and stopped saying it. Yeah. But now pause is back. I know, I know. It's unstoppable. I know. It's even it's like it's never gonna stop now. It's bigger than it's ever been. Yeah. And I think about your show often because I remember when you first rolled out your show, you had to explain it to people. Yeah, why it was called pause. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I thought I don't think that would happen now. Yeah, no, nobody got it.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah. No one got the the little cheeky joke of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Fans get active, y'all. Bring back pause.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Now we said Or at least watch it, because I've been giving residuals off that that've been kind of nice.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

So it holds up. At least just turn it on. Because this is a podcast that exists in the hip hop space, we have had to actively declare this a pause-free zone. Because if we start pausing each other, that's all the pod. We just gonna be less rap about it.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Some stuff is so egregious, you gotta pause it.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Some stuff be wild. Yeah. But um, yeah, that you would you were brilliant for that.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Thank you. But yeah, we should bring that back. Thank you, Aunt. I think, I think a virgin, a version of it, excuse me, not a virgin, a version of it will appear one day. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

When I seen the Let's Rap About it dudes, and shout out to all of them, because I do, I'm thoroughly entertained by their show. When I seen them on the news, they were on like the news news, and they paused the news anchor, right? And he lost it, right? He he cracked up. And it's like, you know, pause. Uh let's, if we're being honest, because this is Cypher Styles said, this is a political podcast. You know what I'm saying? If we're being honest, there's a part of that that's rooted in toxic masculinity, rooted in homophobia and all that, right? Absolutely. So, but the shit still be super funny. But it's funny. It's fucking funny. So what's crazy to me is that we come, we're on the other side of cancel culture, where they tried to cancel something like pause, right? And the way they did it was so backwards and so tone-deaf that it kind of made words even bigger. Yep. Yeah. So I feel like, you know, when cancel culture first started, and you know, it's no secret, they tried to cancel me several times over several things. You know what I'm saying? And I was an early supporter of cancel culture.

unknown 27:36

I was.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

I was like stay woke. I used to be stay woke, uh, me too, you know what I'm saying? I used to be all that shit. You know what I'm saying? And then they tried to me too me. You know what I'm saying? Like, but like, I didn't stop supporting that move, those movies because they tried to me too me. Because uh, at the heart of the the heart of the situation, the intentionality behind these things, I agree with. Yeah, my tech used to be when it uh talking about cancel culture, look, for the type of correction we talk about, this huge societal correction with the straight, rich white males getting away with everything, some people gonna slip through the cracks, some people gonna be blamed for things. Right. And just no, as a straight male, I just have to accept the fact that like some of the things that come towards me, because uh I might just have to eat because I'm a member of a privileged class. Yeah. But also when I see award shows and I see people who online were being super racist or super homophobic, or I see people who have like weird charges, is what they call them nowadays. And we still giving them awards and still celebrating their songs on radio, uh, and people still trying to cancel me because I had an argument on the internet, uh, and and pause is just bigger than ever. I'm like, man, none of that shit was ever real.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

And you speak about that in your new, uh, not your new, but your last special. You speak a lot about that, like policing words and and and how we went wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because I just feel like it became so performative that it wasn't really about the people being affected. You know what I mean? It just started to be a way to get attention. It just started to be a way to platform yourself, you know, like like and that and in my last special when I do that joke about midgets, and I'm like, everyone's talking about don't call them midgets, but like, do we really give a fuck about midgets? We won't even build these niggas a door to get through. We build dog doors for dogs, but we don't make life easier, access for for fucking little people.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

And this is why I love the comedy, because your comedy makes me want to learn. So I saw it, I saw that joke, and it had me question. I'm like, why, why? That's the only word we don't know why. And I was like, I don't know why. So I looked it up. I said, I don't know why either. I looked it up. And it's because the word midge means insect. Wow. Ah, so we're saying they little like a bug. It's like the little people of America society has decided that we're not supposed to say that. I know this because I looked it up. Because they said it's dehumanizing. Which I had to know. I didn't know. I was like, we don't even know the history behind it.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I knew not to say it, but I didn't know why.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, the the bit you got about retarded is crazy. It's it's I think that's how everybody feels. Like there's certain words that we still need. Um, you talk about how when you start to police words, someone gotta be the cop. Yo, it's crazy. And no one likes a cop. Man, that's that colonizer energy. We were on a river. I know you said you didn't come to the river. You're in a river kayaking. And um, I've been on this river kayaking out here in Yellow Springs many times. But there's always the guy that we go with who gives the talk. Come to this part, make sure you go straight, make sure you have your life jacket. And then I saw like the MAGA group before us go, and they had a different dude. And like, you know, they hate this 4th of July weekend, so what's are y'all feeling patriotic? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it was like they had on, like, one lady had on like the the red, white, and blue Mickey Mouse, Mickey Minnie Mouse, and they all like these MAGA women, they all wear the red, white, and blue bikinis. I didn't know that was a thing on the river. Like, but the guy's talking to them, and his energy is different than the guy who's talking to us. His energy is like, look, you know, these people come around to the to the river and they be littering, and we don't want that here, and you know what I'm saying? He's he's being like, I like the way he's talking, it's like a cop. It's like, nah, it's changing the vibe. I'm like, I don't, he makes me want to go back. Right. But as he's talking, he said, if you see someone literate, call up to them and say something about it. And it was this white MAGA lady, and she was listening to him like this. And I was like, that's that colonizer cop shit. Like, like he's the type of person who'd be like, when you come to my river, like, this is not your your this is our river. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. But they'd be one of police shit. Oh, they love police and shit. And I'm down with communion. Um they call it communism or socialism, but that's the political terms. I'm down with the idea of collectivity, that we all in this together. For sure. You know, let's all, but the whole like something.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

But there's an authoritative in it. Someone appointing themselves sheriff. Yeah, it's an authoritative, especially when when it comes to uh white people, police, and black people. They they definitely feel any white person feels they a lot of times they have the right to address you or correct you or question you, you know. I always think about that, like with the Trey Wall Martin case. I remember watching the news, and one of the white guys who lived in the area was talking to the news reporter, and he was like, Well, I just don't understand why he didn't just tell him where he was going. And it's like, because he doesn't fucking have to. That's right. Like, that's why. That's right. But in their minds, it's like, well, you should just answer because you're always uh, you know, at a lower space in society, and you're you you're required to divulge this information to them, and they take all logic out of it. It's like maybe he didn't tell him where he's going because he's a fucking stranger that's following him.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah. What the fuck do you mean? And that's where George Zimmerman comes from, that's where Chud the Bill comes from. Exactly. That's where all this comes from. The indoctrination from the sordid history of slavery. Every person of color, even if you weren't born in America, even if you're not what they call foundational America, if you're a black person of color and you live in America, you wear the scars of that slavery because you're you're treated in ways that started back then. And if you're white, whether you want to or not, you benefit from the privileges that come from that. And so, yeah, so they they they looking at the world without even intentionally doing it, like that's whether I'm white and I say social.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

But I think, but I think it's also uh if we want any level of like progress, there is a a part of it with black people, we have to understand, I think a lot of it's not intentional. I think most of it is uh just a an ignorance that they don't care to correct because they're just living, like I said, they're just being white. They're just having white days, doing white shit. And for a lot of white people, blackness doesn't come into the equation until it's a conversation that they feel is being forced upon them or they're being forced to have. And it it's a it sounds fucked up, but it's an inconvenience. They don't want to do it. They're like, no, I'm over here being white. I don't want to think about black people getting killed by the cops. I don't want, I don't want that concern.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, when it comes to oppression, intentions don't matter, only results in. Yeah. But it doesn't change the fact that it matters that people do this without intention. Right. And that's why the the the academic version of it is that you can't just be not racist, you have to be actively anti-racist. Right. Who wants to be actively anti-racist? Who wants to be actively anything? That's right.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, like, sometimes I'm like, we're asking something that I think most people wouldn't want to do being put in that situation. I don't really want to be actively shit. I'm not an active reader, nigga. Like, I'm not like what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Right. Um That's where the MAGA niggas get scary, though, because if they do identify as MAGA, like say, it's the difference between like a casual Republican-leaning citizen, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Like who thinks that they do, they're I'm conservative. I like the tax policy.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I'm just gonna go vote. Fuck you, right? But I'm anti-abortion, so I'm gonna go with this. I'm actually with the MAGA movement. That means you are starting to buy into the ideology that, hey, we do need to self-deputize. We do need, we do need to be the extension of. Rate replacement is happening. Trump can't watch everybody. We gotta watch them for him. You know what I mean? Like the people are starting to metastasize that by the other.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah, and I think those are I think those are two different types of people. I think there's, like you said, just leaning, casual, I guess, white whiteness, white people, and then there's like people who believe in white supremacy. You know what I mean? That's like a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

They look at politics as a game that they have to win. And you had made a point that ties in with this great that you said, I don't, you said I vote Democrat because I don't want to piss off my aunties. You know what I'm saying? Like, but like you said, the Republicans are way better at marketing. So much so that you're not even sure that Democrats deserve to win. Right. Republicans can market what they're selling to their audience way better.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they've figured out their audience and like how to tap in. I think Democrats have just always had us baked in. So they're not trying to figure us out anymore. They're just like, you know what to do when you get to the polls, you know what I mean? You're not black. You know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, I mean, just the scope of blackness has changed greatly. You know what I mean? We're definitely not a monolith, and like niggas need to be, you know, talked to and catered to to some degree. I honestly don't think black people should be any fucking thing. We shouldn't be Republican, we shouldn't be Democrat. I feel like when we complain about shit, like, why are the Jews have it like this or that? I'm like, because before they're anything, they're fucking Jewish. Yep. And they get on a Jewish accord, and then they go, well, who is going to tend to our Jewish needs? Yeah. And whoever that person is gives their vote.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

And that's where the slavery thing comes in, because that's a huge part of how I've not been able to other immigrants from other places come together and get together as a community, and that dollar stays in that community and circulates many, many, many times before it leaves community. With us, we're so used to.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

It's a pipe dream, but I always feel like there should be a black constituency, and we should argue amongst each other. Within this, you could be Republican, you could be Democrat, you could be whatever. But when we first argue in-house, we say, well, these are the six or seven things we've agreed upon that we need from a candidate if they're gonna get our black vote, and then that's how we move.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

I knew that you were on that. I wrote down this Malcolm X quote to share in this conversation. It's one of my favorite Malcolm X quotes. He said, I don't believe in America because I'm black. No, you said that. That's what that's you said that I'm you said that in the special. I don't believe believe in America because I'm black. The Malcolm X quote is I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat nor an American. It got sense enough to know it. I'm one of the 22 million black victims of the Democrats, one of the 22 million black victims of the Republicans, and one of the 22 million black victims of Americanism. And when I speak, I don't speak as a Democrat or as a Republican. I speak as a victim of America's so-called democracy.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah, exactly. And we I just feel like a big part of our problem was assimilation. A big part of our problem was desegregation. It was the we started to believe in an American identity that really is not built for us, nor does it serve us. I'm like, we should be moving like foreigners. We should be moving, like, I don't know why we're not asking for political asylum. We need help. We need to get the fuck out of here. We should be in front of the UN like we're dying, we're being murdered. Can you send us some fucking wear? We should be walking in droves across a fucking border. Because what the fuck? You know what I mean? But we're so comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

I went to the United Nations in Geneva a few years ago. And I've been into a lot of sketchy places, you know what I'm saying, in my journey as a rapper activist. No place I've ever been was more sadder than the United Nations. Like I went into a side room and cried. I never cried in the field over nothing. But I I people don't even know this. Like in the UN, I had gone to testify against the police for using chemical weapons uh in Ferguson. And it was so just ugly what we saw because it was like everything was just set up to be political theater. Like we telling these folks, like, really, what's happening. For real, for real. And you see other instances of people from smaller countries telling them what's happening. And it's like, yo, this ain't even real. Like, me just being an objective thinker, just looking at this, I'm like, this is not real. This is this is play. This is fake. Like, this is all set up to American interests. And at the end of the day, nobody really gonna buck against US interests. So all these people going up there complaining and coming with real evidence, real cases. It was some young people from Chicago came out there, queer activists from Chicago was out there. They had like a real case against the Chicago police for torturing folks. And just the way you get treated out there just makes you just straight up sad. It's like, what's the point of going back?

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Yeah, yeah. It's it's no, there's no love for a nigga out here, man.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

So, how y'all spending y'all fourth?

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Uh, I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna eat barbecue. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm keeping black. Uh July, like uh Sam and Johnson said, Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's so crazy as black people. And I like what Dave had to say last night talking to CNN, because I agree with that take on it. Yeah, yeah. About I I'm not here celebrating Americanism. I celebrate my countrymen. Yeah. Much like soldiers in a battle in the foxhole. Doesn't matter where you come from, we all we we in the well, once we in this foxhole is we looking out for each other. I do believe that, and I'm not, I'm not, no human being is illegal. I'm not someone who cares about borders that white men drew up back in the day, but I was born here and my people from here. And um, and the only way that because because of what America has done in the world, the imperialism, the colonialism, man, we have to get better. I think we have no choice, all of us, regardless of race, genders, whatever. Like, we all have to.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

And it's because of what what the world has done in the world. That's where my brain is starting to be. Like, I'm way less specific and way less like white people or this people or that people. I'm like, all right, America was colonizing, but so was the UK, and China was making their attempts, and like, it's just what people did to the world, it's what what power does to men. It's how power corrupts. It's we we all got lost. We all gotta get back right.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Do you agree with the idea that, and this is something I don't think I've ever really vocalized, but I was just thinking about it now as we're talking about uh the MAGA people. Um I push back against the idea, like a lot of people try to blame Palestinian protesters and black men in particular for Trump's second terms. Like, you know, all these black men all sudden voted for Trump, and if it wasn't for these Palestinian protesters in Dearborn, Michigan, who was, you know, anti-Kamala and all this type of stuff, and it's like for me, because America's majority white and majority white people voted for this guy in a majority uh three times, he was gonna win no matter how many black people voted. So that's that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

And I thought the data got dispelled on the data dispelled that wrong.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

The data does dispel that, but people still run with that narrative. People don't care about data. But for the black people who do support MAGA, from my perspective, it's the homophobia. It's the being anti-trans rights, is that that makes them be like, you know what? I relate to what that's a big part of it, I think. That's a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

That's a big part of it, I think. I've always thought that. You know what I mean? I always thought that was drawing a lot of black people in was the the homophobia, the transphobia. Um, I think just in general, the world is moving fast, and there's people that are trying to hold on, and he kind of represents a way that isn't changing in the way that the world is changing, you know what I mean? Um I I I I uh I don't know. I just I think as much as we advance as people, we uh we go backwards, you know what I'm saying? And for every time you push forward, there's gonna Be a resistance that wants you to stay. And you're gonna see things like be cyclical in that way. You know what I mean? And so for all the advances that happened, I think there then there was a swell of like, it's too much too fast. That that came from a lot of people. I mean, the youth, and you know, he had a lot of young people that supported Trump, right? And when you look at the youth now, it's like they're they're going back to like, these kids ain't fucking, these kids ain't drinking, these kids are super. This is the most religious group of young people I've ever seen in my time. You know what I mean? These kids are super in the church. These kids are mega churching it the fuck up. And I'm like, we wasn't doing that shit.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

You know what I mean? So I think there's been some type of not regression, that's not the right word, but you know what I mean? Some change. A change. Because I think it it went too far for a lot of people too quickly.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I I remember, man, I could tell you some stories being involved in um black liberation pushes over the last 10 years about that exact type of stuff where culture clashes with with me, with different groups of people, uh, bruns coming out of prison, coming into certain meetings, and being like, Don't got the language, and they like, yo, they like, we didn't even know this was this. We was excited to come here out of jail, but we didn't know it was gonna be like this, you know? And so, uh man, yeah. I just say I've I've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and it's just it's a part of it, I feel, is just people gotta give people more fucking grace with everything. It's like, bro, shit is changing at a rate that it's like you can't be just screaming at people because they're not right where you at.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

And you can't just keep villainizing everybody who doesn't understand. Live and let live. You know what I'm saying? It's like moral. You gotta, you, you just gotta make room for niggas, man.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah, you're talking about empathy, and you talk about that in the salute me or shoot me, which is a great name for a special. Um, but you talk a lot about empathy in there, and it makes me think about the Charlie Kirk situation, because he, his movement and the things they represent, the core of it, before you get to the white supremacy or the Christian nationalism, the core of it is lack of empathy, which they vocalize, right? They're like, no, we are against empathy because that's making us weak. And it's like, that's what that's what everybody needs, even them. Even them.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

They need it. You know what I'm saying? It's it's uh, I think it's just it's we can't we can't move forward without it. You gotta see everybody.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

I think some of them have reached a point where they don't want to move forward without a certain type of radical discourse. I mean, the slogan is again, that's like I had started to really start studying like uh stuff from the other side of things that I don't believe in, just to understand like how Vita was going. And the shocking part about it, which you know this going into it, but they a lot of them really do view this as their this is it moment. Like if we don't do something now, yeah, our way is done.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Our way life is done. But if we're being honest, it's true. But if that's supposed to happen, the world has to evolve, thinking has to change, people evolve, like that is the nature of stuff. And and things die, and new things are born from it. Yeah, and some things get reborn and some things do not. And so, you know, that resistance to change is what has always been dangerous for humanity. But it's always been a part of who we are. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Yeah, it's like Elon Musk, you see that interview with him with when Trump was running this the third time, interview with him and Steve Bannon. And Steve Bannon is like, yeah, like so if Trump doesn't win, what's gonna happen to you? He's like, I'm going to jail. I'm fucked.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

And the Tommy, and he laughed, like, I'm fucked, is what he said. And they both chuckled, but at the time he was investing 250 million into the campaign. So it wasn't a joke. You know, you're up there laughing. It's like, no, they they understand what it is. It's that's why it's like they're trying to make him a king. That's why it's like third term, fourth term. It's like once he's gone, it's like they feel like this is it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

This is the last, the last stronghold.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah.

unknown 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

And if they don't get it now, you know, everybody's gonna be like interracially mingling and bisexual and like, you know, in their mind, it's just like the world's gonna burn.

unknown 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

And there's people who are actually truly terrified of that.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

You know what I mean? Like they really, like, like I always have these conversations with people, like, people like, yeah, how could someone be anti-abortion? I'm like, well, some people really think you're killing children. Yeah. They believe this fully in their heart. Like believe they're protecting babies.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Let's unpack that a little bit because. You know what I mean? Like, that becomes even with the whole, like, and this happens on the left and the right, the people, like the anti-abor, they really believe that people weaponize children for they fuck shit that they be doing. So they be like, like, you say something, they be like, they try to frame themselves as protectors of children. And the people who try to frame themselves as protectors of children, when nobody mentioned children, those is the ones you gotta watch out for. When when when with their argument against you, is you a pedophile? It's like, wait, what we what were you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what's happening in the news. Like, that's the first thing people call each other. Because it makes them feel like I'm better than you. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Or also like I'm serving a higher thing. Like, I think like, you know, not to get heady, but one thing we we don't discuss with all of this is like people be looking for purpose. There's a lot of lost motherfuckers out here. People, there's uh most people, I believe, are just pushing through this thing. You know what I mean? Like, they're not really connected, they don't they don't feel purpose-driven, they don't know why the fuck they're here. They're just waking up every day, they're going to work, they're coming home, and they're laying down, and they're just like counting down. You know what I mean? And so a lot of this shit, too, just be like people looking for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Yeah. One thing I did want to ask you again, you might have to edit this. This ain't necessarily attached to this conversation. Okay. But back to kind of being from Boston and being black from Boston and walking a certain walk from a city where not a lot of people make it out, it kind of makes you a thought leader automatically. Like just being a person who navigated that differently than other people. Um what are some of the things you feel made made you tick differently than other people who were trying to do the same thing? And you said, nah, I'm gonna be the one that makes it to the target.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Just the way I was raised, I think. You know? Just my mom. You know, like just a true belief that I could do anything I wanted to do because I was told that from a very young age. You know what I mean? Like, just just a not a I didn't really believe in limitations, and I believed if they existed, it was me. Like I'm a big believer in like I'm in control. When things don't happen, it's because I'm not making them happen. When things do happen, it's because I'm making them happen. Like I'm the ultimate in the beginning of my own life. Um, so I just think it was just just the the way I was grew up and kind of my uncles, my aunts, and kind of everybody around me kind of like reiterating that type of shit to me. Um that made me just think it was even like possible to do, you know. My mom was always opening up my world, always taking me places and showing me shit, and like, you know, just making sure I got out of the projects when we were living in the projects, and then I got out of my neighborhood. We, you know, we moved out of the projects and just, you know, sending me off to Girl Scout camp with a bunch of white people, even though I didn't want to go, and being like, you're gonna go out there for two weeks and just do some different shit. You know what I mean? I think all those experiences opened me up to the idea of a bigger world and that life could be bigger than just what was going on around me. You know, I think that those types, it's like inception, you know, those fucking ideas gotta get planted in there pretty early for you to start to see it. And sometimes it comes from your parents, sometimes it comes from a teacher, sometimes it comes, and for me it came from a lot of different people in my life. You know, my mom passed when I was 16, but I I had some great educators in my life that that led me to different things and showed me different things. So I've just been blessed with the people that I've come across, and I I would I would have to give it to them.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Sam, your time is very valuable, and um we appreciate you spending it with us. Um we're gonna I got a couple more questions, and then we're gonna get to that barbecue. Shout out to the whole town of Yellow Springs for hosting us.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

And um, I love doing the summer camp thing. I just ran into Prince Paul in the hallway. Oh, right. Yeah, um, Big Daddy Kane is here, Nesse Kane tonight. Um but I wanted to ask you about you were in the room, you were on the Tom Brady roast. Yeah. It was amazing. And you were in the room for the Kevin Hart roast. What was the vibe in the room?

SPEAKER_02 53:29

We was all just at a roast.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Right.

unknown 53:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

I'm gonna keep it real. Like, I think sometimes it's like sometimes shit is hard. It's like if you're not in a room, I don't know. Shit hits the internet and it's like, I don't know. I don't know. You know, like I know Tony, you know what I'm saying? Um very well. You know, we came up in in comedy in LA together. Um do I he's a he's a fucking Yeah. He's trying to shock you. And he does the shit. Um it's like, I don't know. You I expect a joke like that to come out of Tony's mouth. Yeah. I'll say that. Yeah. I expect a joke like that to come out of Tony's mouth.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Uh point that's lost on a lot of people is like the idea that roast is is supposed to be friends and it's people in the room, and it's it's usually in small uh locations and back rooms, and then in the Comedy Central era and Netflix era, it's now in the arena. In the arena, they call for blood. And so in Arena, you got a lot of Kevin Hart fans who never heard of Shane Gillis, who never heard of Tony Hitchcliffe. Maybe besides the one Puerto Rico joke, that's the only thing they know about him. Right. So their whole lens is different from how they're even approaching it as opposed to you, who has come in the game with these people, has seen them work and work and work.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Right. And also, I'm of it was a comic-driven roast, right? Let's remember that. This was not the Tom Brady roast. This is the roast of Kevin Hart. This is a comic-driven roast. We are mean to each other. We are nasty to each other. It's how we have fun. It's literally what we enjoy. Like we we love being mean to each other. We love saying the harshest possible thing and making everybody laugh. And so a part of it for me was just like you get to hit back. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

And then it's like we could get, you could say, okay, you gonna say that crazy shit?

unknown 55:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Wait for my crazy shit. Right, right, right, right. Cool. I got you. You know what I'm saying? So it it, I think people are watching it like Tony Henschcliffe is roasting them. It's like this nigga's, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Like that's an interesting perspective. It's like, no. I think that's the right way to look at it. I think, and and and and to that point, you're right. Because people are lacking that context, they're they you if you lack that context, you have a right to be offended if you lack that context. But you did click on it.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Yeah, and it's a roast.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

You know what I'm saying? And you and you also don't have to like it. That's fine. You could be like, I feel like that's a bad joke, or he shouldn't have made the joke. That's that's also cool too. But I just think it's people generally have this idea that if they don't like something, it shouldn't exist. And I think that's insane. Like, just regular people come in my comments and they're like, you're unfunny. You should never do comedy again. I'm like, the thought that you have, like, you clearly see I've done this for a long time, I've made money off of this, but because you don't like it, it should no longer be on the planet. And that's just an overall sickness of human beings. Because you don't like trans people, they shouldn't exist. Because you don't think people should be gay, they shouldn't be around. Because you have an issue with black people, you shouldn't have to see them. And that's fucking retarded.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

That's right. That's right. The word retarded. It's real talk. It's not, it's what you do is deeper than comedy. It's real talk that makes you laugh. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

It is real talk that makes you laugh. You gotta break down, uh, you got that joke about the word retarded. Y'all don't stone me. I'm just Well, she said the joke on I'm doing journalism.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

She said the joke on HBO, so everyone, yeah, yeah, you can go find it. Yes. Um, one last thing I wanted to ask you about, you talk about you talk about, see, that's that colonizer energy. White people, white people. Um, you talk about in your comedy a lot, how hard relationships are. Like Kama says, relationships are effort and well match your work. Um can you just break down for me why you are so open and honest about what goes on in your relationships and why you bring that to your comedy?

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Um because it's where I learn a lot of lessons. You know what I mean? I think I I learn the most about myself and I grow the most in relationships because when you're trying to give to another person in that way and challenge yourself to be open to another version of yourself to suit another individual. I just think you learn so much about yourself, you know what I mean? And so it's a place of discovery for me, and my comedy usually comes from like kind of a discovery space of like, oh, I stumbled upon this understanding. Um, so and also I just think it's like it's real. It's like I just like I love talking about the shit I feel like we need to be talking about. You know, I love going right to the like heart of something. Yeah. And um, a lot of that lives in in relationships, you know what I mean?

unknown 58:36

Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Well, I thank you for being so open and for sharing so much of yourself. And you were very important and you were necessary. Oh, thank you. Yes, Sam J L.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

That was Mad Gayo.