Episode 6- Fannying Around with Jodie

Jodie is 41, works in a secondary school with teenagers… and is tired.

Not just end-of-the-week tired.
Not just “I need an early night” tired.
The kind of tired that’s been quietly building for years.

After heavy periods from her teens, 20 years on the pill, a difficult experience with the copper coil, and managing an underactive thyroid, Jodie has always just got on with it.

Because that’s what we do, isn’t it?

But recently something shifted.
The overwhelm felt bigger.
The anxiety crept in.
Things that used to feel manageable suddenly… weren’t.

So she asked the question so many women find themselves asking in their 40s:
Is this just life… or is this perimenopause?

In this episode, we talk about what happens when you’ve spent years adapting to how you feel, and then something changes.
We get into “normal” blood tests that don’t tell the full story, starting HRT without really knowing what to expect, and that strange in-between phase where you don’t quite feel like yourself… but can’t quite explain why.

We also talk about being happily single, making peace with not having children, and what it actually looks like to start putting yourself first.

This one will resonate with so many of you.

Episode 6. Out now. 🎧

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

This episode is supported by the Women's Health Clinic. At the Women's Health Clinic, you'll be seen by our accredited menopause specialists, working to the latest international clinical guidance. We believe that knowledge is power. When you understand what's changing in your body and why, you can make decisions with clarity and confidence and feel back in control of your health. We really take the time to listen to your symptoms using evidence-based assessment and testing where appropriate and explain what's happening in a way that actually makes sense. From there, we support women to explore all effective treatment options, including prescriptions when needed. Our aim is simple: to optimise women's health care wherever you are. No funnying around. Find out more at thewomen's Healthclinic.eu.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Hello there, fanniers. Welcome back to Fannying Around, the podcast where we talk hormones, women's health, midlife, and all the bits we were absolutely not warned about. Episode six then, and today we are fannying around with Jodie. Jodie is 41, works in a secondary school with teenagers, and in her own words, is tired. And honestly, that might be the most relatable sentence ever spoken on this podcast. But Jodie's story goes much deeper than just being knackered. She's had years of heavy, painful periods, went on the pill at 14, stayed on it for around 20 years, tried the copper coil, had a truly grim time with that, and has lived with an underactive thyroid since her twenties. So when exhaustion, overwhelm and anxiety start creeping in, it wasn't immediately obvious what was hormones, what was thyroid, what was work, what was life, and what was just being a woman expected to function at full pelt. We talk about the question so many women ask how do I actually know if I'm in perimenopause? Especially when blood tests come back normal. Especially when you're still having periods, especially when you're forty-one and wondering whether you're too young, too tired, too anxious, or just imagining it all. We also talk about contraception, fertility, not having children, being happily single, HRT, and the strange moment in your forties when you realize you finally might be living life on your own terms. But your hormones may have other ideas. This is a really honest conversation about listening to your body, not doubting yourself, and not accepting you're fine, I'm fine, when you know something feels wrong. Right then, let's fanny around with Jodie. I'm gonna kick off, Jodie. Tell us a little bit about you.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Oh, what to tell. Um I am 41 years old. I feel like I'm in a job interview. Or a date. You watch the best one ever. Tired. Best date ever for sure. Um yeah, I'm 41. Um, I live in East London, work in a secondary school, and um tired.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

You're tired. Why are you tired, tired, Jared? What year do you teach? Remind me.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

So I teach um, well, it's a cross-secondary, so 11 to 16. I work with 11 to 16 year olds, um, and I also work in the special educational needs department. So I wear a couple of hats, and it's, you know, one of the nice things about working in a school is no two days are ever the same. So you never know what you're gonna get on the way in every day, which is which I do like.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

I was just looking at Katie's face when you said you'd teach 11 to 16 year olds. Katie's very hideous. Hideous.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Give me an adult woman any day of the week. 100%. So, Jodie, as I'm sure you know, the whole gist of this is not just, you know, us boring on about, you know, perimenopause or menopause or PMDD or PMT, but it's really about, you know, we're all women and we all have, you know, really busy, active lives. And I hear, I get to hear every single day of the week how hormones are impacting our lives and what we, you know, what we thought our lives would be and what they are now, and whether it's, you know, making us feel like we have got superpowers or, you know, a disability. And I think everything, you know, we're really kind of exploring the stories that come along with this. And so you are trying to fire on all four cylinders, Jodie, doing your job. Do you feel like you are firing on all four cylinders?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

I mean, I kind of think I have to most days. I don't really feel like I have a choice. I guess it's a bit like being a parent, right? You just have to, you know, go with it regardless. Um, but I think it's just, I think I've just had issues with hormones and periods for so long that I just kind of feel like this is this is just life. And I've only just really recently thought, oh, this actually might not be how other people experience life. Like other people might not be so tired on the weekend that they stay in their pajamas and don't leave the house. You know, it's it's one of those things that I think you can reflect on more as you get older. But also the other side of that is just like, but I feel like I still don't know what's wrong. And I sort of feel like it's it's it's a tough one to go through your life and kind of feel like, I don't actually know if I'll ever know what's what's wrong with me, you know?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

I really I I've got so many questions, Jody. So start from the beginning. What what what do you mean? So when did you start thinking, oh, hang on a second, this is my hormones?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Um that's a really good question. Um I feel like I knew from a teenager that something was up. Um, because I um I had I went on the pill when I was 14, um, purely because my periods were every two weeks and very heavy, would last for 10 days. And when I went to the doctor, they just said, well, you just need to go on the pill, there's nothing else we can do. Um, so I was then yeah, on the pill for 20 years, roughly. I think I had a little bit of a break um once or twice, but really I was on the pill for for that long. Um and then in 2014, um, I was actively trying to lose weight and it just wasn't happening. Um, I was living in Mexico at the time, so I went to uh I went to the chemist over there. They're great the pharmacies over there, you can uh do all sorts. So they um they gave me a blood test and diagnosed me with an underactive thyroid. So then a lot of things kind of started to make sense. Yeah. And how old were you then, Jodie? Um, how old was I then 28, I think? Yeah, 28.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Okay. Um so And how how did that feel when when they said, you know, when they kind of gave you a solution that how did that feel? Because I think sometimes when you feel like something's wrong, and and sometimes the worst thing is for somebody to say it's nothing. Yeah. So when they told you it was your thyroid, how did you feel?

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Um, I felt I felt it was good to have uh have an answer, actually, um, and a reason. I felt quite validated. Um, but at the same time, like a bit pissed off, like, well, why didn't I know this like 10, 15 years ago, you know, why am I only just finding this out at 28? Um, so I was, you know, I obviously started taking the medication, um, uh, which I still take, which I have to take for the rest of my life every day. But I think the frustration then came when despite taking the medication and trying to do everything right, though, you know, the symptoms, the tiredness, the you know, the weight, like this kind of stuff, nothing was changing. Um so yeah, I think that's it it's it there's positives and negatives to it.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So, Jodie, you were on the pill for 20 years and then you came off the pill for a bit of a break. What what happened then? Did you see any difference in in your mood or in your weight? Or what what was happening with your hormones then after coming off the pill?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Um, after that, I all I really saw was that my periods got much worse. Um, so they went back to being every 14 days. Um, you know, the pain, I I've always had period pain. Like even on the pill, I've I've always had pain. I've had always one day where I just feel like it's you know it's really intense. Um but you know, this was much worse than that. So I decided, okay, I've been putting hormones in my body for enough time. I don't want to go back on the pill. Um, what else can I do? So I went to get the copper coil, um, because obviously it's non-hormonal. Um, and that was hell on earth.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

And were you so I think this is really interesting. I don't know why anyone has the copper coil. I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

What's the difference between the copper coil and the coil?

SPEAKER_03 9:55

No non-hormonal. So the copper coil is non-hormonal, but I am yet to meet a woman that has the copper coil, and you know, is like, yeah, that was this, this is this is the way forward for me because it always just seems to result in just really horrible periods and just feeling a bit a bit rubbish, whereas the Mirena coil uh has hormones in it. But Jodie, you're not on your own, and actually what I you know, I'm gonna launch into my tirade about, you know, GPs offering the right advice about contraceptive. But but were you given, so why did you make the decision to go for the copper coil and not the Mirena? Or or the IUD?

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Purely the the hormonal aspect of it. Um it was very much a case of well, you just like look into what you want and we'll we'll do what you say kind of thing, which is actually a similar experience that I've had recently again with the GPs. So yeah, it was just purely because I wanted to see what my body was like without hormones in it. And obviously, I was already on the levothyroxine for my thyroid at that point. Um so I just thought I just want to see what my body um is is doing by itself, if it if the periods can regulate. You know, I've I've got friends, it's interesting, I've got probably four friends who have had the copper coil in their lives, and two of them had a horrendous experience, two of them had the most amazing experience, one of them had it for 20 years with no issues. Oh wow. So I'm very aware that all of our experiences are gonna, you know, will differ massively. Um so I just thought, yeah, let me try to avoid hormones if possible, let me see what this can do.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Yeah. And I think that that there seems to be such a common experience. It's like we're all just like stabbing around in the dark, aren't we? And you know, you know you've got a problem, and then you finally get the time and the the confidence to go to your GP, and then they say, you know, well, what do you want to do? It's like, well, I I don't know actually, and I know, you know, I know I don't want hormones, but it's kind of having an understanding about you know what the hormones are doing in your body. So if you're having heavy bleeding, could it be hormonal? And if it is hormonal, is just not having hormones the answer? Most likely not. It's just finding what the right combination of hormones is, isn't it? But without having that information, it's almost impossible. And so you had the copper coil in, and then what happened, Jodie?

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Um, I had it in for about a year, and it got to the point where I it was like affecting my daily life in terms of, you know, I was still having a period every two to three, well, three weeks. Um, but it was so heavy, I've never had anything like it in my life. Um, and the pain was so severe that one time I had to take myself to A E. Um, so I just was like, um, and then when I went for, I, you know, I was going back to my GP, saying I was worried, I thought there was, you know, something wrong. Um first time I went, I had um actually I went twice and had an internal examination, and they just said the strings were, you know, a bit too short, they'd been cut a bit too short. Um, and then I was still having these problems, and then they uh referred me for an ultrasound, and um the person who did the ultrasound said, um, yeah, it is a little bit low actually. It's a bit lower in your uterus than we'd like it to be. I was like, can you just take it out, please? Because, you know, it's obviously not working.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

None of this is very comforting.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Um, so yeah, I I think after a year, it was probably after a year, I was just like, no, I'm I'm done with this, I've tried it, it's not for me. Um, I then went back on the pill probably for a couple of years, just because I didn't really feel like there was an alternative. I I knew the pill, I kind of knew what um what I was getting with it. Um and then last summer I just decided I don't want to be on that anymore, so I stopped, I've come off. Um, and to be honest, I haven't really noticed um much of a difference. My periods are much better than they were with the coil for sure. They're still every three weeks, but they're not heavy, um, which is a blessing. So there's that. Jodie, we didn't ask at the top, how old are you now? I uh I've just turned 41, but I'd like to stay at 40 if that's okay. I don't I don't wanna I don't want to accumulate any more years. I'm quite happy at 40, for him was a great year.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

We were talking just before we came on about being because I'm a similar age to you. Um I'm older than you, I'm 43 now. And we were both we've both had a similar joint journey up to this point where we we don't have children. And I think it's very important to note at this point when you do come off um contraception, you you want to know what your body's doing, but there is also that sort of in the back of your mind of about possibly getting pregnant and getting pregnant at our age. Um, and I know you're happy to speak about this. So uh what's your situation at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Um I am currently single but dating miserably. The the dating scene in London right now is in that absolute gutter, so um I don't recommend it. Um so yeah, I'm I'm single, but I'm happily single, and I think I'm happily single probably um the last I've been single now for well, single for six years, I guess, but dating on and off in that time. Um and I think the last sort of two years have been the first time in my life, in my adult life, where I've actually been really happily single. Um so the thought of having kids is kind of it's a bit of a it's a bit of a scary one, you know. I kind of feel like when I was a teenager and you know, when we were teenagers, it was always that scary thing of don't get pregnant, don't get pregnant, whatever you do, do whatever you want, but don't get pregnant, don't get pregnant. And then suddenly you're you're a 40-year-old woman and you're like, oh, I actually don't know how I'd feel about it right now.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Um Do you feel like your clock's ticking a bit? Do you do you want children or you don't, or you just don't know? What how do you feel? Do you feel the pressure?

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Well, until I was 30, I thought, no, I definitely uh I don't really want kids. Then I realized it was just the relationship I was in, I didn't want to have kids with that person. Um so fair enough. Um so then I in my 30s, I was like convinced, especially like in COVID, I was just like fixated almost on the idea of you know having children and how I was going to do that. And you know, having if I was gonna be a single mum, that would be okay. And I think that was just kind of like very reflective of all of the uncertainty and all of the like scariness going on. Um, and now I'm at a place where I think, you know what? I'm I've made peace with the fact that it might not be for me, and I am enjoying my life so much as it is, more than I ever have done before. And I kind of don't want anything to ruin that. No offense, Katie, because your kids are lovely, but oh, are they?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

They are, but all kids have their moments, and I think when you get to our age, you can you can quite selfishly say, um, and and I was I was reading a really good book the other day, and it it made the point. It was Greg James actually, is his book, and he said, you know, if you have to question whether you want children or not, I think the answer is pretty clear. You probably don't, you know. And I think as as women, especially we get to an age where we think, oh, I need to recreate. Um and I think it's more than alright to go, do you know what? I love my life and I love doing the things, I love having the freedom. I'm happy, I've got great friends, great family. I don't want children, and I'm I'm I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yeah, yeah. Do you do you think that I I mean I I kind of think that there's something quite empowering about this, isn't it? And and I think it comes back again to this like stage in life where you know it it's such an empowering time because you kind of talk about the uncertainty that you felt in your 30s and those kind of, you know, those feelings where you weren't quite sure. And actually now in your early 40s, then it's the time where you think, God, no, do you know what? I'm actually really happy for the first time. You know, I'm happily single, I'm happy with me, I'm happy in my job. And and I think, you know, it kind of is all the more important that actually we talk about the impact that your hormones can have on this like bloody marvellous period of time that you know you don't want anything to ruin, exactly as you just said. You don't want anything to ruin this period of time, whether that be a screaming child or you know, a deranged estrogen level. You know, we need to make sure that you're firing on all four cylinders.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, and I think it's something that having biological children, I just think is something that we are, especially for our generation, we're ingrained in kind of it's kind of like ingrained in us, like that's just what you do. You grow up, you get married, you get a house, you have children, and actually I think we're seeing more and more women choosing not to do that because absolutely we have the choice to not do that, and I feel like you can get love, you know, that love in so many other ways.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Um, you know, I have it at work like you made a really important point though, Jodie, that you haven't met anyone that you want to have children with, and I think that's uh uh the biggest point that I can make. That I I met someone that I wanted to have children with, albeit a bit too late. Um, but I think that's I think having this sort of built into us as we grow up, we get married and we we have children, and I think it should be instilled in us that you meet someone that you want to recreate with, and that person is going to be a product of you both, and you've you know, that's the important part. And I think to stop and I think the selfish thing is to go out and go, I want children. I I don't care who I am with, I I've got to a point where I need children. That that's when things start to go wrong. So I think, you know, amazing for you, and actually amazing for me, you know. We haven't just rushed into it and gone, Oh, yeah, I've had children, but because I wanted children, not because I wanted children with this person, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

But it's interesting because that was very much the mindset I had in my mid-30s. Um, and then I had to really check myself, and you know, and I don't know if that is a you know a sociological thing or a biological thing or a bit of both, but I had to really check myself and be like, hold on, like think about, you know, because I I have so many people in my life who have been single parents and I see the struggles, I know how hard it is. And I had to just like constantly check myself, like, you you know how hard this is, is this what you really want? And you know, the answer was no. Um, so I think it's and and look, don't get me wrong, if I met if I met the person of my dreams tomorrow and you know it was a beautiful relationship, healthy relationship, and they wanted to have kids, absolutely, I'd like to think I've got another couple of years left in me if I did change my mind. Um But you know, I think if it's just gonna be me by myself, um, I've got wonderful, you know, nieces and nephews who I love so much. The kids at work drive me, you know, round the bend, but I love them, I love working with them, and I've got the best cat in the world.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

So actually, you know, yeah. I'm good. You've got it sewing.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Fly in, Jodie. You're flying. So, Jodie, you've gone on you've you've you've been on the the coil, yeah, you've struggled with your periods, you've been on and off the pill, you're off the pill. How are you feeling? Because, and I hope you don't mind me disclosing, but you did send me a blood test that you had the other day. And I think this is really interesting because I hear this a lot, and I think that if we did a poll of the number one question that women had under the age of 47, it would Be, but how do I know if I'm in perimenopause? Or how do I know if this is the beginning? Or how how do I know? And quite often women will look to having a blood test. And so you sent me the blood test, and actually your blood were really normal, weren't they, Jodie? Surprise, surprise. There was nothing, nothing amiss. And I did a real kind of you know, deep, deep dive into anything I could find. And you know, we were looking at your estrogen levels, your ferritin levels, your vitamin D, your progesterone, your testosterone, and everything was absolutely beautiful. And so really, I think that if I didn't know better, then I would expect it you to be saying, and I feel fantastic. And is that the case, Jodie? Sadly, Katie, that is not the case. No. Do you know why? Because you're a normal woman above the age of 40.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Think he's trying to tell you, Jodie, that you're in menopause.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

No, do you know what? It's this is the thing, and this is so crucial because your hormones start fluctuating in your late 30s. This is really normal. And it's really important as well when we're talking to women about fertility as well. And, you know, just because your hormones start fluctuating doesn't mean it's like, you know, the end. It just means that your hormones need extra support. And so when we're looking at symptoms associated with hormone fluctuation, absolutely, fatigue, you know, anxiety, increased anxiety, a feeling of kind of unease, I think, is what most women tell me. And all of these things, if you're over the age of, you know, 38 and they're new, a new onset of symptoms, it most likely is your hormones. And I think that there's such a misconception about what that means. And quite often women will go and get blood tests and they send their blood tests to me, or they look at their blood tests, or their GP looks at their blood tests and says, everything's absolutely fine. And for me, the saddest point then is when the the woman goes, Oh well, you know, that must be me then.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Can you protect menopause? Can can you diagnose, should I say, menopause from a blood test?

SPEAKER_03 24:26

It's very hard. So under the age of I and I mean, so really I'm going to talk from my clinical experience rather than guidelines, because I think the guidelines aren't particularly fit for purpose at the moment and they're always changing. So under the age of 40, we would always encourage somebody to have a blood test. And that needs to be a blood test done on a specific day between day two and five. And it needs to be done, we used to say two blood tests, at least six weeks apart. And the reason that we say that we can test your for, and I'm using inverted commas for anyone that's not watching the video, but that we can test for perimenopause under the age of 40 is because there's more of a pattern as to what we're looking for, so we can detect what's abnormal. But what we know is actually women were saying, but I still have all of these symptoms associated with perimenopause or early perimenopause, or you know, I still don't feel great in my luteal phase. And these women, despite having normal blood tests, were responding beautifully well to, you know, a bit of progesterone or a bit of estrogen. And so really, you know, I stand firmly on the fact that perimenopause, whether it be early perimenopause, perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause, whatever the hell we're talking about, should be a clinical diagnosis. And that should always be that we take into consideration your symptoms. And if your symptoms are uh, you know, uh indicative of symptoms associated with low estrogen, low testosterone, low progesterone, then hell, let's trial it and see if you feel better.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

So, Jodie, you've had blood tests and they've come over. Yeah, you're fine, get on with it. Yeah. Which most women always go, oh, I must be weird, I'm fine. How are your symptoms manifesting then? What are the things that you used to do that you can't do anymore? Have you got any anxiety that's crept in? Or how how are you feeling in your mood then?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Well, it's it's difficult because I think with my thyroid condition, I've just been so used to being tired all the time. And, you know, like I was saying, realizing quite recently that not everybody feels like that. Like some of my friends are on the go all the time, and they're this we're the same age. And I'm like, how are you doing that? Um, but you know, we have different jobs, or we have, you know, different hormones, we're different people. Um, so I think I got very just kind of used to feeling like sometimes life is a struggle, and sometimes I do just need to have a day in bed, and that's okay because I'm wiped. Um, but I think it's only been a couple of months. So, Katie, I sent the blood test to you, I think beginning of January. I think I'd had it done beginning of December. Um, and I think, you know, the reason for that was just curiosity more than anything else. It wasn't necessarily that I was having symptoms. Um, but I just wanted to check, you know, in terms of yeah, I guess fertility more than anything else, just the curiosity. And then it was only sort of January time where I started to have new symptoms, which were feeling more overwhelmed than usual. Like, yes, I feel overwhelmed regularly. Yes, that is part of my, you know, choosing to work in the job that I work. Um but it was it was more, and it was kind of like, oh, I uh this is actually a a new level of overwhelm that I have not had for a very long time, and this doesn't feel like my usual levels. Um so it went on for a couple of weeks, and I did just sort of feel like, oh, I'm not really coping as well as I usually do. You know, I'm a bit more emotional. I'm a very emotional person, you know, anyway. It doesn't take much to set me off. But, you know, it was, it was, you know, things that normally would just be quite small. Um so that was when I went back to my GP and just said, you know, I sort of I don't really know what's going on here. And they said, Well, we gave you your um, because I had my first over 40s health check. I don't know what they're called, but you know, the NHS calls you in once a year to give you a bit of an MOT. I had my first one last year, and they said, Oh, but we did tell you at that at that appointment that we would give you HRT if you wanted it. And I said, Well, I didn't think I needed it, so I didn't want it. Um and they said, Well, we can offer you that if it, you know, we we we've cut they they almost made me feel a little bit guilty because they were like, Well, we've had this conversation before and now we're just sort of going through the same stuff again. Um wow. So I was like, okay, give me the HRT, let's see what happens, because I kind of feel like this is my only option right now. Um so yeah, so I started taking, well, they're patches. So I started using the patches about a month ago now. Um so watch this space, we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Hang on, so Jodie, I am fascinated. Right, so you go to your GP and they say, You're 40, have some HRT. And then but they don't, they haven't discussed was there any discussion about your symptoms or just I feel a bit crap? And then that was their answer.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

So initially, when I went for the test, uh sorry, for the checkup, I they called me in. So I hadn't made an appointment. This was like last summer. Um, I hadn't made an appointment, but they wanted to see me to do this annual health check. Great. And actually the nurse who I met was, you know, she was brilliant. She was talking to me about, you know, doing more exercise. And, you know, I was saying, yes, I, you know, I enjoy strength training and yoga and things like that. But it's a having the mental capacity and physical capacity to actually fit that into my day sometimes. Um, she was, and then she said to me, it was brilliant. She said, Well, you don't want to become a decrepit old woman, do you? And I was like, Well, actually, no, I don't. But you know what? I quite appreciated that because it was the straight talking thing that I needed to hear about like you need to take better care of yourself. And absolutely, yes, I do. So I I although it was very blunt, I appreciated it. Um at that point, she said, Um, you know, because I was saying about how I feel tired all the time, it's hard to get that motivation to go to the gym when I'm I just feel like I just literally come home from work, take a shower and get into bed sometimes some days because I'm so tired. Um, and she was like, Well, you know, we can offer you HRT if you think you need it. And I was like, Well, no, I don't, but thank you. Um, I appreciate I'm probably perimenopausal age. Um, so then it was only it's sorry.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

No, no, so I just am outraged. Like it's like it's from one extreme to the other, isn't it? Because what good is that, you know, why uh I think you know, I I applaud I as everyone knows, I am very pro-HRT. However, I you know, I I think again, where's the choice? You know, where's where's the where's the motivation? Where's where's your agency there? Because actually, why like Jodie? I bet you couldn't tell me why you're taking the HRT or what it or what it's gonna do. And and I think that, you know, the most important thing, if we just give people HRT and say, oh well, you're 40 and tired, yeah, you must be perimenopausal, and HRT is definitely gonna help you off you go. But that's equally as unhelpful as not giving somebody HRT because you know, we're women, we're not stupid. Like, just just tell me, you know, how, you know, for example, the reason, Jodie, that you or that women, not just you, but the reason women get that kind of overwhelm or that that kind of high stress, unable to deal with stress as well as you used to be able to, is because your cortisol levels, if you think of your your cortisol levels, which is your stress hormone, so you need your cortisol levels, they're super, super important because that's what's going to get you up and get you dressed and get you ready for the day. And then your your hormones and specifically your estrogen help to turn down or turn off that cortisol once they've done their job or once that's done its job. So if you're in a period of hormone fluctuation like PMT or uh, you know, perimenopause or early perimenopause, or perhaps just your luteal phase, then your cortisol levels are gonna be kicking around for a little bit longer, causing a little bit of bother. Now, when I tell you that, and then say, so maybe, Jodie, a little bit of estrogen might help you. It's giving you that agency to be able to say, ah yes, now I understand. Because it's so important that we understand these very important regulatory hormones and the role that they play in every single process. Because, you know, we all know women that say, Oh, I took HRT and it wasn't for me. Well, that's mad because that's like saying the hormones that I was born with don't suit me. You know, that's that's that's not correct. It just it most women don't understand why they're taking it or what they hope to get from it, or the fact that the doses can be changed and you know, optimized.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

No, it's a really interesting thing. Um, I was today years old, but I'd probably say about 10 years out 10 years ago. I mean, obviously, since meeting Katie, I'm I've been educated against my work. Well, I honestly thought HRT was a drug. I didn't realise there were different types of HRT, even. You know, and I'm I'm I'm absolutely happy to say that on the podcast that I didn't realise there was all different types of HRT. I just thought HRT was a drug.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Do you know that your body, if you're taking body identical hormones, so Jodie, that's that's you, your transdermal patch, estrogen patch, and then hopefully you're taking a micronized progesterone. Um, and the I'm gonna come back to that one in a minute. Um So, you know, if you're taking a body identical hormone, so uh progesterone, micronized progesterone, body identical progesterone, or transdermal estrogen, patch or gel or spray, your body has it can't tell the difference between what's released in your ovaries and what it what what you're what you're using. So when we look at, you know, for example, the impact on your fertility, then we know that actually that's not going to impact your fertility at all. If anything, we tell women, you know, it's probably gonna increase your fertility a little bit because there'll be points in your cycle where you're a bit more hormonally balanced. And so, women, I think, you know, one of the biggest things that that or one of the saddest things actually that's happened is that we're all terrified of our own hormones.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

So, Jodie, tell us where you are now and how you're getting on with HRT.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Well, it's very early days. I'm uh I'm learning obviously from Katie just by uh just by being here that there's still a lot I don't know about it. Um but look, I think it's it's my moods definitely feel more stabilized. And I think look, that was the thing I was feeling such overwhelmed like at the beginning of the year. Um and I, you know, I've I can only put it down to the HRT if I'm honest. Um I haven't had any, you know, any it hasn't bothered me, you know. It's just this patch that I change twice a week. I st I think I start with the estrogen one and then I switch to another one, Katie. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 36:22

Oh, you've got the matrix. So that's why you're not taking a body identical progesterone. You've got the special patches that combine both the estrogen and the progesterone. So, yes, so you will use one for your uh follicular phase, so one for one half of the cycle, and then one for the other. So when we're looking at HRT, you have the estrogen that uh, you know, it is effectively gonna get rid of a lot of your symptoms, and then you have the progesterone that we used to say just thins the lining of your uterus, but actually we know a lot more now. We know that it it also has lots of other benefits. And did they, you know, did they tell you what to expect? Do you know how long you're gonna be taking it for? Let's get into the nitty-gritty Jodie. What did they tell you?

SPEAKER_02 37:12

I have no idea. After that conversation on the phone back in January, where they were just like, well, we've had this conversation before, like, do you want it or not? I was like, yeah, sure. So they literally, um, I get my prescriptions delivered to my house because of um, you know, obviously because I have to get them um quite regularly. So I just literally a couple of days later got a box of HRT to my house. And I was like, okay, great. So let me start reading this list of instructions that is um about as long as my road. But um yeah, I read through, I did make sure I read through it all because I wanted to know what I was getting myself into. Um, but it did feel very much like a very lonely journey, you know. But I do have a couple of friends who have um, you know, who I work with who are older than me, so they've been through this. Um, you know, and one of them is very, she's very um clued up on menopause. She runs a menopause group at work. Um, and she had a real struggle with her GP trying to get the right medication. So I just felt quite lucky, I suppose, that actually, because I was kind of prepared if this is, you know, if I if I if this is something that I want in the future, I'm prepared for it to be a bit of a battle. So I was just quite grateful that I was able to try it without having to fight for it. But went in completely blind, well, pretty much completely blind, just read what I had to read and then slapped the patch on.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Yeah, I I think you know, and for anyone, there'll be lots of women listening who are in exactly the same position as you. And I think, you know, I always say you have every right to have an expectation to feel exactly as you want to. You know, this HRT is the real beginning of a really exciting journey, I think. And not just, you know, it's not just the HRT, it's about being getting off the back foot. So having a little bit more energy, so perhaps you can squeeze in a bit of strength training, and you know, being able to level out your mood, so perhaps you can do the things that you want to do, and it's about you know, being able to, you know, continue being the best version of yourself that you can be. And I think for so many women that I know, there is a period of time where we just wrestle with that, and whether that be because we've always struggled with our hormones or because we're going into perimenopause and don't know it, or because we're in postmenopause and thought it would be all over and done with. But I think that you know, it hopefully, Jodie, for you, this is the beginning of you kind of beginning to feel a bit more in control of your hormones.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

I hope so. It'd be nice after 30 years.

unknown 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Jodie, we always ask all of our guests if they could speak to their younger self and offer the 20-year-old self a little bit of advice. What would you tell a young Jodie?

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Gosh, I feel like I'm on RuPaul's drag race now. Um that's what he always asked. Oh gosh, no, that's such a it's that's quite an emotional question, you know. I think um just to not doubt, just not doubt yourself. Don't doubt yourself. Um, don't feel like you are less than because you're absolutely not. You are an absolute powerhouse, and people might not always see that, but you are, and don't let people tell you how you feel. How you feel is is your experience, that's your lived experience, and that is valid. So um just don't take any shit. And girl, I'm gonna say sachet away.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Here is to, you know, amen to all the queens, absolutely. This episode of Fannying Around is supported by Clearboost, a women's health supplement range I created after years of working in clinic and seeing how confused and overwhelmed women felt by supplements. Each product is designed to support the symptoms that I see most often. Hormone changes, low energy, poor sleep, low mood, and stress. Using ingredients chosen for their specific roles in hormone regulation, energy production, and nervous system support. The idea was to replace long random supplement lists with a small number of targeted formulas so women know what they're taking and why. Find out more at clearboost.eu.