Season 1 Wrap! The Fanny Files

So for this final episode of Season One, we're opening the case files.

The Fanny Files.

We're looking back at the biggest themes that kept cropping up again and again. Why so many women struggle to access good information. Why we're all so bloody tired. Why so many of us ignore our bodies until they start shouting. Why women still have to fight to be heard. And how menopause somehow became a marketing opportunity for every supplement company on the planet.

Most importantly, we're asking what we've learned from the women and men who have joined us this season and whether any of us are actually any wiser than we were when we started.

So grab a cuppa, pour a glass of wine, put your feet up and join us as we open The Fanny Files.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

This episode is supported by the Women's Health Clinic. At the Women's Health Clinic, you'll be seen by our accredited menopause specialists working to the latest international clinical guidance. We believe that knowledge is power. When you understand what's changing in your body and why, you can make decisions with clarity and confidence and feel back in control of your health. We really take the time to listen to your symptoms using evidence-based assessment and testing where appropriate and explain what's happening in a way that actually makes sense. From there, we support women to explore all effective treatment options, including prescriptions when needed. Our aim is simple to optimise women's health care wherever you are. No funnying around. Find out more at thewomen's Healthclinic.eu.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Welcome back, Fanniers. How are you? Uh it's the end of season one of Fannying Around. Hurrah! How did we get here? Well, when Katie and I first sat down over a glass of wine one windy December evening close to the smoker's corner, in conversation with a drunken lady, Fannying Around was born. And we thought we'd be talking about hormones, hot flushes, and HRT. And we have. But we've also talked a lot about relationships, body image, burnout, fertility, dating, confidence, healthcare, strength, identity, parenting, menopause husband, and of course, uh Fanny Magnet. If you know, you know. So over the last eight episodes, we've had some incredible guests share their stories with honesty, humour, and more than a few moments that both made us laugh and cry. So for this final episode of season one, we're opening the fanny files. Yeah, we're looking back at the biggest themes that kept cropping up again and again. Why so many women struggle to access good information? Why we're also bloody tired? Why so many of us ignore our bodies until they start shouting? Why women still have to fight to be heard? And how menopause somehow became a marketing opportunity for every supplement on the planet. Most importantly, we're asking what we've learnt from the women and men who have joined us this season and whether actually any of us are any wiser. I'm sure we are. You're still upside down, which is very exciting. Sorry, I'm not flashing you.

unknown 3:29

Woo!

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Oh, we would just say it's been one of those days, weeks, years.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Can we extend it to oh years 2026 has been a real pain in my butt, actually.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yes. Let's just let's say the the first half has been challenging. Um but we're actually celebrating today, aren't we? Well, we're moving. We are at we're at the end of season series, depending on where you're listening and what you say. Uh, one of Fanny and Rusen.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Who would have thought, Rosie, that this went from a chat over a glass of wine on a winter windy evening. And now we are at the end of season one, which is super exciting. And I'm always, do you know what blows me away is how many people listen to it and how many people are, you know, listening far and wide. And actually, it's not just my patients. Sometimes I speak to people, you know, that uh are calling about, you know, not like the gas man, but like people that are calling about a potential, uh, a potential appointment, and they reference the podcast. So yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah, all the time. I was actually thinking of that moment when we kind of stumbled upon this idea, and it was Christmas time, and we were sat outside um of a bar near where we live. But there was one lady um that came out who was a smoker, who came outside where we were sitting and who'd had a few refreshing beverages and just sat talking life with us for a while, didn't she? And um, like I say, she'd had a few refreshing beverages. Good on her, it was Christmas. And um we had a good old laugh with her. So we thought we could get more, not drunken ladies, but we could get more ladies talking to us. And actually, that relates really well to um what you do and what the podcast is about sharing stories, sharing information, sharing experiences, and um making anyone that feels uh that that's listening to this feel a little less alone. So that's how it was born from not so much us a drunken knight, but thank you to that lady. Absolutely. Who's probably who's probably still sat there having an Aperol or two, you know, who knows? Um so what I thought we'd do is a bit of a roundup ep. Yeah, I love it. Go through some of the um tremendous people we've had on series one and just some of the uh key themes or surprising sort of things that have come out of series one and um probably put a bit of a personal spin on it in in in terms of what surprised me and what probably didn't surprise you because you hear this every day. Um so I've I've put them as the fanny files, they're case files. So if you can imagine we're a bit like Moulder and Scully. So case file one, I think I've called the great information heist, and I think what's been really one of the I think ticker box on every episode has been information or lack of it.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Every single episode. Every episode, and I think that uh you know I know that from my patients I see day in, day out, but I think that even I had underestimated how much that lack of information impacts the decisions that people make and have made. And uh that just was the most recurrent theme. You know, that that's what everyone said, oh, but I didn't know. And you know, or or or even, you know, when when we look at Katie, for example, like I don't know, like I've got no idea. And you know, it that was that was just so apparent that that not only is there a uh a lack of information, it's a bloody great big black hole.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

And I think three people that stood out to me were were Taz, episode one, where she had to fight for answers, didn't she? You know, and she from being a young lady she blamed herself. She didn't she didn't know there was even a problem. She didn't even know there was a question to answer. She she automatically thought it was her problem. Uh in comparison to Lisa, who be more Lisa, I think we both said, but who didn't have the answers. You know, her her story was fantastic, and and the the journey she went on through um through her cancer diagnosis and uh how she prepared for that. She was going to the nurse, the doctor, the gynee with lists, lists of questions. And if they didn't have the answers, she'd research them. And and that was a a theme throughout her episode. You know, she challenged anything that and and and any answer she was given, you know, she she she challenged that.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Do you know what else I think is well when we look at information is even if people are getting information, there's the inability to tell whether it's the correct information. You know, I can't have HRT because I have a family history of breast cancer. Like, no, that's wrong. Um, you know, I can't have HRT because I, you know, have got a family history of blood clots, like absolutely definitely still incorrect. And I think that there seem to be just uh a very everyone's very insecure about what they know and whether it's true, and it's you know, what a confusing space to be in.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah, and I think uh, you know, going along that theme and thinking about Michael's episode, I my my brain always says, What's behind me making this decision? Is there someone making money out of it? Is there you know, we talk about supplements and all the crap that we're trying to be sold at the moment and sold, you know, sold to based on our anxieties or what we think we might have. And Michael's episode was fascinating because she'd um gone through the healthcare system in the US, had a really rough time of of um insurance, finding insurance through the workplace. But that one moment where she had all the information she needed was when she privately went to a sperm doning um clinic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She said, you know, I felt empowered at that moment. I could make choices based on all the information I had. And she had, I mean, we were fascinated. That episode was brilliant, one of my favourites.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

You know, she was picking eye colour and personality, and she could hear the sperm sperm domer's voice, you know, to even down to that last detail. And exactly. It really struck me, you know. Well, it is possible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 10:26

But that yeah, yeah, but then then really the information that she had about her hysterectomy that she went on to have was relatively sparse. You know, why did you have it? Not quite sure. And were there any other other other options available? I don't fully know.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

The point where where they said, you know, shall we take the ivories as well? It's like it's like taking your car to the MOT. Well, we can you can send you a full set of new tires if you want, might be better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

I I actually and I I spoke to somebody this morning actually, uh, who was inquiring about one of our appointments, and she said, Well, I don't know whether I need a well-woman check or or a menopause consultation. And I said, Well, you know, uh, how old are you? She said, 47, but it definitely, I don't think it's menopause because I've had a hysterectomy. And and that, you know, that is the the level of uh you know lack of knowledge that is being passed on when people are having these kind of major organs taken out that just absolutely nothing. And you know, I I think that uh, you know, uh podcasts like this in season one, uh we've paid a lot of attention to to information and and trying to make sure that this is just another way that women can arm themselves with factually accurate, clinically up-to-date, evidence-based information.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Why do you think then? Why is it so hard to access? Is it is it that the information hasn't been there? Um, is it relatively new, or are we just putting our trust in the wrong places? Why why is this information?

SPEAKER_02 12:10

I think that that is a very complicated answer, but I think there are a few things that kind of give an idea as to how we ended up in this situation. So I think the healthcare service is predominantly and historically patriarchal. So what I mean by that is actually, you know, really there is very little research that is done on women. And, you know, if you think up until the 80s, early 90s, there was no health research done on women, not one. So all uh all pain relief, for example, was just tested on men. And I think if there's one thing that we've learned, and that's you know, this was 20 years ago, 30 years ago. If if there's one thing that we've learned, it's that we're not small men, you know, we're we're very biologically very different. Yeah. And so that's the healthcare system, and then we look at what's being taught. So actually, what's being taught is not menopause, it's not specific to your hormones in any other way, apart from, you know, endocrinology and then your sex hormones, like your estrogen, progesterone, testosterone are just these other hormones that act completely independently of everything else, and they just control whether you do or don't get pregnant, which is completely incorrect. We know better now. And, you know, I think that the education system for medicine and for nursing, you know, all aspects just hasn't caught up. And then I think you have the bias, where I think, you know, in a in a patriarchal patriarchal healthcare system, quite often women are encouraged to downplay their symptoms. And I think that that is the narrative we have, you know, your periods, well, they just hurt, it's normal. Childbirth, well, it just hurts. It's just normal. And I think that women tend to think, well, this is probably just normal, then I just get on with it. And I think it's it's it's created, you know, this perfect storm where if you look 20, 30 years ago, even 20 Rosie, it was kind of irrelevant because I think most women just put, you know, not being able to drive or not being able to make decisions or having achy knees and not being able to play sport and putting on weight, they put that down to age. Yeah. But but now we have bigger and uh higher expectations for what 40 looks like and 50 and 60 and 70 and 80.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

And I guess, and to be quite honest, I think that goes for a lot of men as well in terms of aging and aging better. Um, I think I think as as a human race, we know a little bit more and we're more informed. I think biologically women have a lot more to deal with and go through.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Um well, but I think there's a lot more barriers, mate. So, you know, if me and my husband both went to the GP to ask for hormone replacement, so for him testosterone and for me, estrogen and testosterone, I can guarantee you in 90% of uh healthcare facilities that the reception that we would get and the outcomes that we would get are entirely different. And that's because we associate virality with men, and you know, men are allowed to want to age better, but women, no, we're just vain.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah. Um so case one um verdict, get your in get your information, get informed. And you know, thankfully things are yeah, things are changing slowly, albeit but they are changing. Um, and I think that's been quite evident in the ladies we've spoken to. And I think podcasts like ours, and thankfully there's a lot out there now to encourage women and empower women to to, you know, like you say, advocate for themselves. Absolutely. Case file two then. This has been another recurring theme. Are women just permanently exhausted? We I mean we said to each other as soon as we came on, uh everybody I speak to when I walk the dog, I see certain people, I just feel shattered all the time. Looking back over some of the episodes, we had Katie with her moments of calm in the car, which was one of my favourite favourite moments. Uh, she just you know, take her moment of silence and calm before she picked the children up. Um yeah, we had Jodie who had almost normalised her exhaustion. Um, it was a thyroid problem, and thankfully she pushed and pushed for that diagnosis. But just going back to the point we just made, a common theme and a common symptom, and and maybe put your clinical hat on now, is being tired. And I think a lot of us put that down to age.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Oh like I that is my pet hate. And right, so I say that with love. Still that is my my pet hate, but I almost love it when people say it. Because if you are 40 or 50 or 60 and putting things down to age, I think you really need to question that. You know, have we just normalized becoming more tired? And have we normalized being lesser? Because that's not that not not on not on my watch, melee, absolutely not, no. And um, today I am tired, you're right, but that's because uh for all parents in Spain, the teachers are having a strike, which they should, and it's fabulous. But my kids are off school and it's exhausting. But actually, generally, I'm no I I I really push against being tired. Actually, I'm busier. Yeah, and I think that what I try and do, and certainly in my clinic, is reframe that. And you know, if you're tired and you're over, you know, 35, have your hormones got something to do with it? And what are you gonna do about it? Because, you know, do you need to change how you exercise or when you exercise? Do you need to change your, do you need to change, you know, how how you work? Do you need to change what you eat? Do you need to add some hormones? Uh, you know, all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

And what do you say for me being tired is a physical sort of I've done a lot today, sit down, cup of tea, end of the day type thing. But sometimes I I experience it and and and and you feel this just this sluggishness. And I think they're a different it's a different thing. And I think we we we can all lean into using an excuse and saying, Oh, it's just my age. Um, but I think they're a different thing being tired and being sluggish and quite exhausted all the time. Because yeah, it's the end of the day, you've had a busy day, you've been running after children, you've been working, you've been to the gym, you've done all these things towards the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, you're starting to feel a bit tired. That's fine, that's normal.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

But also tired isn't bad, you know. Tired, that tired that you were talking about there, that's a great tired, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

That's yeah. I'm glad you're bloody hell. I'm really excited. Yeah, I'm a bit sadistic with that because I have to earn my sleep. And my I I like I like to have had like, you know, when you go to the gym, you're like, oh a good ache. You know, yeah, I like I like to earn my bit of chocolate at night and absolutely my sit-down. And that is a like you say, it's a good tired, and you have to be ready for bed. Absolutely. But if you're waking up sluggish, and I think that's it, is it uh is is it reckoned? Is there a difference? Is it recognized?

SPEAKER_02 20:17

100%. So, and I think you know, commonly we would call that fatigue, you know, where you're waking up and you're feeling not rested, and it gets to the afternoon and you just have to just sit down and close your eyes. Yeah, you know, that's not normal and that shouldn't be tolerated. And, you know, it is that that's your body's way of trying to tell you that something's not quite right. You know, I think at whatever age you are at, and perhaps not as we push on into our 80s, but certainly anything before that, you know, I think I always say to my patients, it's entirely reasonable that you should be able to complete the things that you want to complete. And whether that be a full day at work, whether that be a full day at work and go to the gym, whether that be two social things a week, you know, absolutely you should continue being able to complete those. And if you feel that you can't do that comfortably, then why? You know, why? Because it's certainly not because you're 30, 45, you know, or 57. That's not that's not your reason.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Look a bit, look a bit further. So verdict being exhausted isn't just being older. No, Christ, no. Um case file three, then, Katie, one of our faves. Is it perimenopause or do I just hate everybody?

SPEAKER_02 21:42

I think I think there's a bit of both there, isn't there? Because sometimes I think, God, you know, I'm on enough HRT to sink a ship. Um, but sometimes people just piss me off. And I know that it's not their fault at all. No. But I've just got no interest. And and I do think that I think we we spoke a lot about it, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 22:07

That you know We had a whole episode on it, didn't we, with Katie?

SPEAKER_02 22:11

And like, but is it a good thing or is it a bad thing? And I think sometimes it is a good thing because you're you're you know your your tolerance for rubbish or interesting. Yeah, yeah. And and even you know, going to Melissa, who who is saying that, you know, she's got a social battery now and it runs up quickly, so she has to be, you know, wise about who she spends that social battery on. And I feel very much the same.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

And you know, I I think before I would be, you know, out and about until the early hours, and now if it's past 10 o'clock, I am absolutely not interested.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

So do you think menopause kind of removes your filter of people or or does it kind of just reveal what you've been putting up with and you just think, yeah, done with that? What do you think it's a symptom of menopause or do you think it's just getting older?

SPEAKER_02 23:06

I think it's an outcome of knowing yourself better. So I think that when you're perimenopausal and your hormones start to change, you have no choice but to become more in tune with your body. This makes me feel good, this makes me feel tired, they piss me off, that person makes me happy, you know. I don't like that colour, that noise is very annoying. And I think it all of these things you have no choice but to confront every day. And I think that an outcome of that or a product of that is that you're like, no, it's probably not wise that I go, you know, for a drink with that person that grates on me because you know, I feel like I might not be hormonally optimized today.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

That's a funny, that's a great way to put it. I like that. Very diplomatic, Katie. Thank you, darling. Um, verdict then. I I I think we should say maybe the jury uh remains out on that one. Is it parametopause or do I just hate everyone? Depends on the day and the person. Case file four, then I quite like this one. The invisible woman. And this is mainly about women um not being heard and why they spend so much time trying to convince people that they're struggling. So I'm thinking um uh about Jodie's episode and her thyroid diagnosis, and uh when she went to um the doctors, she'd had the diagnosis of thyroid, still didn't feel quite right, was asked questions about her weight. Um and I think the nurse said to her, Well, you don't want to end up being one of those old women, do you? She felt quite ridiculed in that moment. Um and Taz, throughout her whole episode, didn't feel hurt. Hugely, hugely.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

I I think uh but I think you know, if you look at uh the lifespan of a woman, uh I think that's pretty evident from beginning to end, right? You know, if you look at everything that's coming out about endometriosis now, and you know, poor women that suffer from endometriosis and for years have had to fight, you know, to say actually I have to like take to my bed every month for four days and I faint from the pain. And you know, women with PCOS that say I just don't feel right, you know, and I I something's not it's not normal. And and I think, you know, women in childbirth that, you know, sadly, and with all of the stuff that, you know, the investigations in the UK with maternity departments, you know, I I think as women, I don't know why we have to fight harder than men, but we do, we do, and I think we're not asking for uh, you know, and I'll get down off of my feminist box, but I I do think that this is where when we look at equity, you know, is just making sure that we know as women that our bodies are different, and at the moment we do have to fight to be heard, and that's rubbish. But, you know, it's a bit like I had a chat with my kids the other day.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Not for fashion advice this time.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

But but I'm gonna go, you know, it's slightly off-piece here, but I'll bring it back. Um, so you know, I was talking to my children about what would you do if somebody touched you inappropriately and mummy and daddy went there? What would you do? And they said, Well, I don't know. I said, Well, you'd tell an adult. Uh and they said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I'd tell an adult, I'd tell someone. And I said, Brilliant, but what would you do if that adult didn't believe you? And they said, Well, I don't know. And I said, Well, then you'd tell another adult and you you'd keep telling adults until someone believed you. And for me, that was really important to kind of give them that power. And I feel very similar in my job, and I suppose that's what this podcast is about, and what you know, all of the outreach work and all of the campaigning that we do is, you know, if you're trying to tell somebody that you feel rubbish and you think that it's because of your hormones, and actually you've tried everything else and this isn't working, and they don't believe you, what are you gonna do? Well, you're gonna keep telling someone until somebody helps you, and and that's that's really important. And you know, is it fair? No, but you know, get on with it, let's do it. Because it's fundamental that you don't spend the next 10-15 years feeling rubbish while all of these golden opportunities to shape your life pass you by.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

And thankfully that's how we've got to where we are today. But I would say there'll be a lot of ladies that just thought, oh, well, that's me then. I'll get back in my little box and suffer. Um so yes, uh, verdict is if the first if if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. All right, case file eight, then our final one. Um I think throughout the episodes we've got quite quite mad about um the amount of shit that we are we are sold or or they tried to sell us. But I suppose my point is at what point did menopause become a marketing opportunity?

SPEAKER_02 28:30

People are always going to make money out of you know, other people's misery, it's just how it goes. Um, and that's not really my problem. What my problem is is it's in the absence of decent information, and so you know, really, I am you know faced with women, oh god, all the time that will say, you know, oh I'm gonna do it the natural way, and then you say, Okay, and they reel off the 485 supplements that they've tried over the last five years, and you know, the Reiki that they've been to, and the you know, kinesthesiology and the acupuncture and the hypnotherapy and the therapy and the supplements and you know all of these things, and this isn't me being dismissive of all of those things because actually there's some of them that are brilliant, but why are you doing it? Because if you're doing all of these things to try and treat your symptoms, you're probably not gonna get very far, and you may do, but that's not gonna be the true for every woman. And actually, if you're doing all of these things because they make you feel good and you want to support your hormones, then go for it, you know. And it it's I think it's just knowing realistically what is going to help me and what's it going to do, and what can I expect from it, and then do I want to spend my money on it?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Because actually, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

If somebody's saying, you know, there's a supplement, it may or may not help you, then you know, you can decide whether you do or don't spend 55 euros on it.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

I think we've always said get the basics nailed, you know, get that foundation of getting your hormones balanced, you know, seeing an expert, a medical expert, getting the basics done, and then anything you do on top of that is a bonus. Whether you want to spend two pounds, twenty pounds, or two hundred pounds. If it makes you feel good, no one's stopping you. But there are basics, there are basic boxes to tick before you do all that, I think is what we say.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Exactly. And you know, I I think that uh anyone that's listened or anyone that knows anything that I talk about, I'm very, very, very pro-HRT. But that doesn't mean that I, you know, am dogmatic about everybody taking it. I'm dogmatic about choice. You know, I I think that we should have a choice, but you could only make a choice if you have the information. I feel very similarly about, you know, all of the extras that are out there. And I think, you know, if you don't want to take HRT, that's fine. But make sure that your reasons for not taking it are correct.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Because I would say, controversially and anecdotally, in 90% of cases, they're not. And I think what happens then to those women is you have a myriad of symptoms that you're just going to spend the next 10 or 15 years trying to correct with weird and wonderful supplements.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Spending lots of money going round in circles.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah. And maybe not, you know, I also do meet um in my personal life and professional life, I meet women who have absolutely nailed it for, you know, the by the grace of God, if you like, she says as a non-religious person. But, you know, uh by some fluke, they have ended up with this genetic code that means that they you can do a bit of yoga and a bit of pilates and give up drinking and they feel fabulous. And and good for you, that is absolutely amazing. But it certainly should not be a benchmark by which we are all measured.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

No. Season two on the way then. Got some cracking guests lined up. Thank you for your time today. Lovely to see you as always. Oh, and you, my love.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

This episode of Fannying Around is supported by ClearBoost, a women's health supplement range I created after years of working in clinic and seeing how confused and overwhelmed women felt by supplements. Each product is designed to support the symptoms that I see most often. Hormone changes, low energy, poor sleep, low mood, and stress. Using ingredients chosen for their specific roles in hormone regulation, energy production, and nervous system support. The idea was to replace long random supplement lists with a small number of targeted formulas so women know what they're taking and why. Find out more at ClearBoost.eu.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

And sponsored by Clear Boost Supplement and the Women's House in Europe.