She Shows Up the Same Way for Her Students, Her Kids, and Herself. Jacqui Giuliano on Training, Teaching, and Never Losing the Thread.

When asked to describe herself in one word as a teacher, Jacqui Giuliano said efficient. As an athlete, she said persevere. As a mom, she said loving. Three words. Three roles. One person who has never separated who she is from what she does.

She is a seventh grade math teacher in Illinois, a mom of three kids under four, a nine-time Kona qualifier, and a ROKA STNDRD Racing Triathlon Team athlete coached by her husband Ryan, who races alongside her and shares the weight of everything it takes to make race day possible. The clarity and accountability she brings to her classroom are the exact same tools she uses to hold training, motherhood, and herself together without losing any of it in the process.

She tells her seventh graders that 2.4 miles is from their school to the corner, that 112 miles on a bike is all the way to Madison, Wisconsin, and that the run is from school to the mall. She does not just inspire them. She makes 140.6 miles feel real. That is how she moves through every part of her life. Present, goal oriented, and always making the abstract concrete for the people around her.

This one is for every mom who understands that a strong village is not a luxury. It is the plan.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi everyone and welcome back to Strong Core. I am elated to have um the guest today, and this is Jackie. I have been following Jackie for a while now. She probably came up to my feet because she's an athlete and she's a mom. But there's something really special about Jackie, and um I'm so glad we found the time, and it took us a while to do that to meet. And in a second, I'll tell you why I'm so excited and what's so special about Bet Jackie. But welcome. Thank you so much for having me. We are having Jackie, you can see in the background. Um she's a teacher, and we're gonna talk about that uh part of her identity. And I was able to get I think 55 minutes in between uh is it your lunch or your planning period that you're giving up for us right now? Uh they're back to back, so I got lucky with that. So um, yeah, every minute counts. That's what I learned with Jackie. Um I I remember Jackie particularly because almost three years ago, um a little actually less than three years ago, there was a photo of her that I think is an iconic photo. Uh, it was in an iconic race where Chelsea Sodara won, which in it for itself was a big deal as a mom after many years that a mom hasn't um won the Ironman Ireland World Championship. But and not to take away from that win, Jackie ran the Kona three months after having her twins pumping along the way, and then as the trophy at the end, there was the medal, but also those tiny two babies. And I want to take us back to almost three years ago, Jackie, and tell us a little bit about what you were feeling when you were holding the babies next to the big sign of um the finisher.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

I feel like I have like tears in my eyes now just thinking about it. Like it was just the coolest experience. Like I've done I've had like, you know, a lot of great races, but like that was like the best like finish line I've ever had because I didn't, you know, obviously I didn't know even going into it, like would I be able to finish? Like I had done some training to show me that I should be able to finish, but I didn't know like logistic-wise with like pumping and everything, and like how my body would respond, like, you know, biking for almost six hours and then running for three hours and however long. I just didn't know with all that extra energy being used for like feeding my children, would I be able to be okay to even finish the race? So it was just like the coolest thing to be able to like be there with them at the end, um, even though they didn't love that I was all sweaty and gross. But it was fine, guys.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

So there's those pictures are like my favorite pictures still. Really? Because you have that picture again a few years later, but we're gonna go back to it uh in a little bit. Um, I saw in the post that um you wrote that many women um rooted for you when you were pumping. And um, what do you think? What did evoke in them when they saw you pumping?

SPEAKER_02 2:57

I feel like a lot of women like don't like have never really thought, oh, I can be a mom and do this at the same time, like even while I'm still, you know, pumping and or breastfeeding or whatever the case is, like just because that's something that takes up so much time and energy that maybe people didn't think, like, hey, I'd be able to also do an Iron Man, because that is so demanding of your time as well. Um, and there's just not a lot of even like pregnancy and postpartum, like a ton of like research out there or experiences out there. Like, I mean, three years ago there wasn't as much. Now more people are becoming more open about it, but there wasn't a lot of information out there. So I think a lot of people were just surprised, like, wow, this girl is doing it.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

That was literally my reaction. How did it work? I'm curious for those maybe I'm postmenopause. So my kids, I have four boys and they're a little bit older, but I nursed and I worked full-time, and I remember it's really hard to keep um, you know, the sanitary and you're in the middle of the race and sweating and dirty. And how did you keep everything clean? Or was it just pumping and throwing the milk?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Um, so the first time right after the swim, um, my husband had my pump and it was like totally clean. Well, I guess I pumped before the swim. Um, and so that then he washed everything and then he brought it. He was allowed to go in the tent. Well, not in the tent. Um, he was allowed to be in transition area with the pump. So he had cleaned it and everything, um, and then brought it to me. And then after I was done pumping after the swim, since I didn't really have any like, you know, gels or anything in me at that point, he did use that milk for the boys. Um, and then when he came back after the bike, he had again like sanitized the pump and everything, but we didn't use that milk. It was like our backup milk in case because I didn't know too how my body was going to respond the next day. Like, will I have any milk? Like, will I be able to feed the boys? Like, I have no idea what to expect. And so we just kind of kept the the gel-filled milk as like a backup. Luckily, we didn't need it. I would, my body responded just fine, just fine. I had to wake up in the middle of the night. So we were good, but I was very nervous about that part. Like I didn't want them to have, I didn't use gels with caffeine, so I guess it could have been okay. It just felt like there was a lot of sugar, and so maybe that wasn't the greatest choice. But yeah, he he was a rock star and he probably did just as much work as I did during the race.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I mean, there are some photos of him holding the twins, and I'm thinking it's hot there. And Lingo Sherpa as it is for so many hours is hard. So with the twins, he's definitely a a trooper. Both of you were uh were amazing and and inspiring, even though I'm I won't have, you know, babies anymore. Um, it was really inspiring to see that. And I was asking the question about sanitary, not because I'm a you know nurse or that I was worried about your kids' um health. Obviously, I was just curious to see what what was the planning. Iron Man, preparation, you know, all the setup is so complicated, I can only imagine what it means to also travel with three months-old twins. It's was there any moment uh that any of your doctors or support, PT, um maybe even close family asked you to rethink this decision? Given it's so close to uh giving birth?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

I so the practice that I delivered with, um, there's four doctors within the practice, and one of them she she actually had done a couple of 70.3, so she was like, Yeah, absolutely you can do this. Like, we'll continue to monitor you and everything. But like if you have a good delivery and a good pregnancy, like, and uh I knew I was gonna be there for my six-week visit. She's like, if everything checks out, like you're you're good. Um one of the doctors is he's on his way to her retirement, so he is a little more cautious. But um, he never said no. He just said, you know, we'll we'll we'll see how things go. Um, and then my mom originally was like a little worried about it, just more so sh she's more so from the angle, like she doesn't want anything to happen to me as a mom, like you know, crash on my bike or something. Like she wasn't worried that I wouldn't be able to do it. Like she had full confidence that I'd be able to do it, even if it was super slow. But she was more concerned, like, what if I got into an accident or something and then wasn't there for the boys? So um I, you know, online. That's what moms do like 100%. I mean, there were definitely some like people that I didn't really know that voiced their opinions, you know, and I would like be posting about training and stuff, but um, I think it's just a lot of people aren't like there's not a lot out there, like I said, like about training during pregnancy and postpartum and stuff. Um, so I think I think some t some of the comments were just mean in general, but then some people were just uneducated, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yes. I'm asking the question, not because I want to be no noise nosy about this, but you have posted about it. I I'm sure to inspire other moms. You went through fertility treatment quite a bit. Yeah. And then you got pregnant with the twins. Was there any moment uh where you were afraid to push yourself too hard in training and preparing that could maybe do any harm for the babies?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

I think the first round um through like we we did a couple rounds of like I IUI and then we went to IVF after that. So like the first couple rounds of IVF, I was a little worried, like so I didn't really work out too much. I did a lot of walking or very minimal, like on the spin bike, not even my tri-bike, um, just in the beginning. And then I started to kind of, you know, look into it a little bit more, um, like ask other friends who are active, maybe not necessarily Iron Man's, but just like active in general, kind of their experiences. And it was a lot of a lot of people didn't really have too many experiences to go off of. But um, after two failed transfers in a row, I was like, well, this not working out thing isn't really working for me. Maybe my body just needs working out because that's its like comfortability. Um, and in I mean, really, like if the transfer is gonna stick, then like it's gonna be strong enough that like working out isn't gonna ruin that. So um the bigger risks like that IVF doctors worry about is when you're doing a retrieval because um it can like your your body can like have almost like hyper stimulation, like you're it's just dangerous at that point. So more so for the retrieval part, but the transfer part when you transfer the embryo, like there really isn't like as much harm in working out. Like again, don't go run a marathon or something, but um yeah, and I feel like there's a lot more out there now, and like that fertility doctors are a lot more like, yeah, you can you can do the normal working out there you're used to. Like, don't go and start doing CrossFit when you've never done CrossFit before. Um, but if you're used to, you know, running 10 miles a day, then great. Run 10 miles a day, maybe a little later than usual.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

I'm really curious about the mindset of an athlete. Um, were you itching um and missing being um working out and being an athlete where you had to scale back and walk? Or were you able to use a mindset that tells you this is worth it, this is temporary? Again, no judgment. I'm trying to learn, and maybe for others who are in your shoes um to to borrow the mindset. What what was going on in the mind were you kind of restricted doing what you love? How how are you able to continue and move forward?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Um, I think a big part of it was like the first couple transfers. I was very much like, you know, my body right now is just focused on the hopefully getting a baby and like there's a time that I will be able to work out again. Like I just need to focus on doing whatever I need to do to get my body prepared for this, like hopefully getting pregnant. Um, I also I started um an SD shop during that time too, because it was COVID and everything. So there's a lot of, you know, a lot of a lot of downtime for a lot of us. Um and so I I think that helped too is like making, like, you know, because one of the things with IBF or infertility in general is like when you have a transfer, having warm feet, it's supposed to be warm feet, warm uterus. So um I would make socks for people, um, just things like that. I think having other things to like distract me from not being able to work out, because ever since I was little, working out has been like a big part of my life. And so it was really hard in the beginning to like not be working out. Um, so I think having things that like still made me feel like I had a purpose, like making things for other women that were experiencing the same things as me, like that made me feel like, oh, I could either run or I could make somebody a pair of socks. I I feel more purposeful making someone a pair of socks. So that was like a that just came at the right time for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

So we jumped straight into the highlight, I guess, of doing uh Kona with uh three-month-old twins and bumping. So that was always an athlete. Uh, who is Jackie? Tell us a little bit about your background, um, and then we could take it from there to a couple of other questions that I have.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Um, yeah, so my parents used to run together. Well, they don't they don't run as much anymore, but my parents used to run marathons together. And so growing up, it was me. I have a brother who's 18 months younger, and then another sister who's five years younger. And so we were all kind of a big running family. Like I thought it was cool. My parents did the Boston Marathon together, they did other marathons together. And so I always thought, like, it's cool that you get to go and do something active in a new state and like explore like the United States or even the world. So they kind of hooked us right away. Like they never forced us to run, but it was always something like that we saw them doing and so we wanted to do. And so I ran um in junior high and then in high school, I played volleyball my freshman year and then was basically told by my track teammates that if I don't do um cross country, they're gonna tell the volleyball coach to cut me from the team. So I decided to do cross country. Um, and then I went to school for one year on a scholarship um for a cross-country and track, but things were not working out there, it wasn't my place. Like the I just kept getting injured, and the coach just really wasn't great about that. So I transferred um and finished my college at the University of Illinois. Um, I I ran on the team, I was a walk-on at that point. And once I started my student teaching, I was like, I can't do all of this, it's just too many things going on. And I was always injured anyway. So it was like, why am I continuing to try when I just keep getting hurt? So I even though I kept getting injured, I switched to marathons because that seemed like the next logical thing. And that's actually how I met my husband because he he was also on the cross-country and track team and he quit as well. And he started training me because he knew that I was always injured and he was doing triathlons at that point. So he was like, Let me train you. I won't hurt you, you will be able to run. And so that's kind of how all of that started. And then he eventually a few years later hooked me into triathlon because I was already doing the swimming and biking anyway. So he was like, You might as well just start doing triathlon. So um, I had my goal of just being a runner, but that kind of transitioned to a triathlete, which I'm very thankful for.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yes. So it's you've been triathlete first, then you met your future husband, who is also an athlete. You guys are amazing together, supporting each other. When you train, um, I'm curious to know, do you? I think you do. I think you in you mentioned in one of the posts that you raced one day in the championship and he raced the next day. But do you have seasons for each, or do you race train and race together each season?

SPEAKER_02 13:58

So it's been so we actually, one of his um athletes, he and his wife are really big into Iron Man as well. And so they would do, you know, the husband would get an Iron Man this year, then the wife will get it the next year, and so on. And, you know, we just kept saying, like, until it gets too hard for us to manage, let's do the races together. But we're starting to find three kids is kind of like the magic number where things become a little more challenging. Um, because I feel like with the when we just had the twins, it was like it was fine, we could figure out time management and stuff. And I don't know why. I mean, our daughter is like the easiest kid ever, but like for some reason that third child just kind of like it makes it more dis difficult logistically, I think, too. There are more. Now you have more kids than parents. Yes, yeah, and figuring out child care, like having someone watch three is like a lot harder than just asking them to watch the twins. Um we we actually have the same races planned this year. Of course, Rockford 70.3 because it's like right at our, you know, 45 minutes from our house. We can sleep in our own bed. My parents will bring up the kids when we're on the run, so like it's it'll be good. But um, we're trying to think of races that we could do that like wouldn't be a super inconvenience to whoever's watching the kids. Because I I want to go back and do Kona, but it's it's just so hard because like putting in all that training, it you know, if we're both trying to put in so much training, like then the other one has to be, you know, with the kids the whole time and like or find childcare, like so we're not sure that we'll be get to an Iron Man this year.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

How many times have you qualified to Kona? Um nine. Nine, yeah. Okay. And how many, if you remember even, how many Ironmans um have you done?

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I think well, so and I guess technically we qualify for Kona more than nine times. We we've done nine konas.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

But you might have qualified more but didn't go, I understand.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yeah, yeah. I know I I think am I at 15 maybe for Iron Man, 14, something like that. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

I I I want you to know that for the Everett Slow age grouper, it's just uh mind blowing um what what the two of you are able to do and and what you're doing as a as a mom. I know at some point you become a teacher, and I want to talk a little bit about that identity of a teacher. That's what you studied in college? Yeah. And and then became a teacher. I assume in Illinois, that's that's where you reside. When it when it comes to teaching, what are some principles that you have as a teacher that are non-negotiable for you?

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Um, I guess kind of like without saying it, kind of like no excuses. Like if you didn't do your homework, just tell me, like, that's fine, just then do your homework tonight. Like, um, but don't come in saying that you're not prepared for an assessment when I've provided you with all the tools. Um, because we we have everything like so incredibly organized. It's like if as a parent, you're like, yeah, there's no reason for my student to like not be prepared because everything we have like a Google document that has like everything, all the resources the kids could ever possibly need. So like I think that's my biggest pet peeve is when they come in and they're like, or if they come in and they're like, oh, we have a pro uh an assessment today, because they see my desks, you know, organized differently. And I'm like, yeah, it's been on our our weekly grid, our calendar for like the past three weeks. Yep. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

The listeners, not that there's level of difficulties in being a teacher, but for me, I'm more towards the history and the arts and psychology. Math was always harder. And to make it even harder to be a Jackie, you're a math teacher. Right? Yeah, yeah. In which grade? Seventh grade. Okay. And so do you bring your athleticism, identity, and maybe even motherhood now into the classroom to give examples to the kids, or do you keep those separate?

SPEAKER_02 17:45

No, they they all know um that I like amended this Iron Man stuff. And like even at the beginning of the year, I tell them and I kind of correlate the distances for them. You know, I tell them how 2.4 miles is, like from our school to wherever. And then like I tell them all the distances. And, you know, when I tell them the 112 mile bike, they're like, what? We're going all the way to Madison, Wisconsin. I'm like, yep, that's how far you ride your bike. And then you have to run from our school to the mall. And they're like, what? So like I like kind of being able to relate. And I even tell them too, like, you know, something good about math. Like, I don't care if you like get an A plus on this unit. I what I care about is these problem solving and critical thinking skills. Cause like that's what makes you successful in real life. Like not being able to, you know, find I don't know, the circumference of something. Like, um, but I I try to like bring in my athletic experiences as much as possible. Like, even like if I'm doing a run workout over the weekend, I'll tell that, like, kind of recap, like, oh, and then, you know, because my run workout was this, that I had to kind of calculate all this in my head so that they see that like you do use math in real life, maybe not the learning, but you do use it in everyday life.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Awesome. I remember when I did Iron Man Maryland, one of the nicest things the community does is when you do the check-in. Have you done Maryland? No. So one of the things the community does is that it's beautiful. In the check-in, in the bag, they put a note from um a school kid, um, the local school. There, I know. I that made me ball when I got to them. And they write like the most cutest things about don't give up and you know, you can do this, and I'm gonna stand there and tear up for you, even though they don't know who the notes is gonna end up with. And I'm sharing this because I'm curious, have you received ever any like cute notes before a race or after a race that you maybe made you maybe teary?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah, um, especially like when I I would, you know, I tell them ahead of time that I'm going to Kona the years that I've done it. And like sometimes I would come back to just like my school email inbox just like flooded from kids, like just you know, with emojis and their emails and everything, like totally not formal at all, like just saying like, I watched you on the TV and like I see it up past my bedtime to see. Cause it's like 10 o'clock or so when I finish, I think, at home. Um, so it's just been real like because you know, I don't tell them like you have to watch it or anything, but I just tell them like that there's an app and they can use it and it's broadcasted well online. Um, and I'm always shocked at like how many kids actually do pay attention, or like when I come back from Kona, they'll be like, Yeah, I saw I can't believe you did blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, these kids are actually paying attention. Like, I never like force it on them because I don't know. It's just my hobby.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

It is my own personal story, but I've heard other participants in the podcast saying this, uh, that they saw it on TV, Kona, and that's kind of what they got their attention about to rest on that. That's how I learned about it. And I'm mentioning this because I'm going to bet that one of those kids one day is gonna tell a story that my teacher, this teacher in seventh grade, was an athlete, and I watched it and she inspired me. I I'm willing to bet on a story like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

That actually happened. Well, so this kid, he wasn't one of my students, but I my first year at my school that I'm at, I was coaching track, and this one kid, he was super smart, um, but I only teach seventh grader, so I didn't have him. He was in eighth grade. He went to state um for track, and when Ryan, so Ryan and I are both on the men and women's um Roka teams, and so Ryan was texting me when they were at their team camp. He's like, Hey, do you know this kid? And I was like, No way, yeah, the name sounds familiar. Why? He's like, Because he remembers you. He said that you were a math teacher, but he didn't have you, but that you were his track coach. He's like an amazing athlete, and he does iron now. Yeah, so cool. Like, I was like, Wow, I cannot believe. And I did have a student a few years back reach out to like saying that he wants to get into triathlons and like so. I messaged with him back and forth advice and stuff. So it it has been really cool to like have students. I mean, usually, you know, it's not like when they're in high school that they want to necessarily start doing an Iron Man or something, but like after college, they start to kind of like be like, okay, I need to like maybe kind of stay a little active and stuff. So, like I've had students even just reach out about like, hey, I'm gonna do the Chicago Marathon. Do you have Advice for that. So, like, it's been really cool to see that, especially kids that you're like, you hated running into your eye.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

So it's been fun. Absolutely. I love, I love this. Um I now let's transition back to the everyday life. You have a husband who trains really hard, you have yourself training really hard, and you have jobs and kids. How do you split it? What's your schedule look like? Walk me through the night before.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Um, so or like just normal training days? Yeah. Okay. Um, so I wake up early because Ryan does not like to wake up and work out in the morning like he hates it. So I'm usually up at like 4:45-ish, unless I hit the snooze, which I have been lately.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Um, let's just stop for a second and explain why, what's going on in the background, the cutest strawberry.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah. So my little daughter, she just turned one yesterday. She um every time she's teething, she has an ear infection. And so then she doesn't sleep through the night. And so it's just been awful. And I'm, you know, I would wake up and comfort her and stuff. But um, she's just started sleeping through the night the past, what did I say, four days out of six days or something like that. So like she's on her way again. I don't think she's teething, knock on wood. Um, but yeah, so some nights, like when she wakes up multiple times in the middle of the night, I either work up at 4 45. Yeah. I either just don't work out that day, like, which is some something new. Cause like with the boys, I feel like I always push through that. Um, but like now that my daughter's here too, I feel like I don't um always push through it. Like I I prioritize sleep a little bit more. But usually if she does sleep through okay or if there's only one interruption, um, then I wake up between 4:45 and 5 and I either run or bike for an hour. Um, if I'm actually able to wake up at 4:45, then I get strength training in on those days too. It's only 15 or 20 minutes, but it's better than nothing, is kind of bad. I have to go with. Um, and then a couple days a week after, so I get home from work and then the health club that we're a part of, they have child care. Um, so I get home at like four, and then the child care starts at 4:30. So a couple days a week, I'll bring the kids to the child care and then I'll be able to get my swim in. Um, and if we are all fast enough, if I didn't get my strength training in, I can do that too, because we have to leave the gym by six o'clock so that we're home in time for dinner because then it, you know, go it goes dinner. Everyone is cranky. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then Ryan, um, after we're done putting the boys to bed, well, all of them to bed, um, then Ryan goes and works out. So sometimes that's 8:30, 9 o'clock at night. So um, yeah, it's it's a wild, wild day at our house every day.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I mentioned uh I in in in a few of the podcasts, one of the interview interviewees at my uh doctorate degree, uh, an Iron Mom said to me it's every night. My husband and I are turning, it's like a rubricube, and we're turning and shuffling and trying to solve it for the next day. I want to ask you a question that might not be comfortable for the listeners. This is more of me being um critical of my the way I behaved when I was younger, and I wish I knew differently. I wish I had role models like you. I used to work full-time, high-pressure um executive role in corporate America. I'll drive with my two boys back then to work 45 minutes, put them at the daycare that was on site, worked from whatever it was, 9 to 5, let's say 9 to 5:30, drive 45 minutes back home. We're getting there. Now it's dinner time. I wanted to make, you know, nice dinner for my husband. Although there was never the I expect you to do that. My husband is the most supportive person, but I still wanted to be a good wife and a good mom and have it all French and good. And then there's like story time and bath, and I was dying, because I was a swimmer, right? And when I was younger, I was dying to do exercise, but this is now I'm getting to my question. I felt guilty. I felt guilty saying, oh, I we just arrived home at five. I'm gonna put them at the daycare at 5 30 again, so I can go bike. And so for me, for 30 years, 30 years, I disappeared. I actually want to cry saying that. Um and I'm glad I found myself later. I'm I'm going I'm actually 56 today. Happy birthday! But until I was 48, between, you know, 20 48 almost I disappeared because I gave everything to my family. And nobody asked me. That's how I prioritize. Long story to ask you. And it's no judgment. I really want to learn so maybe others listeners that are like me can get that uh mindset from you. Do you not feel guilty when you come home at four or three thirty and you're already putting them again at the at the daycare at four?

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Um, I think with the boys, like I would well, I guess part of the pro the I guess good thing is that my parents have always been like so supportive. So like when I was on my maternity leave with the boys, like training for Kona, they were always there with the boys. So I always knew they were in good hands. And so that was kind of always my mindset with them. And now with my daughter, like um, I'm trying to like always think of them going to the gym as kind of getting that extra socialization for them too. Because the boys are three and a half. So, like, you know, they they do go to preschool for three hours during the day, but then like I want them to still be interacting with other kids, like, and maybe not in the same type of setting, you know, in a in a more unstructured setting. Cause I feel like you learn a lot of like life experiences, like valuable life experiences that way, versus like in a school, it's more structured. So um I kind of and we don't go every single day, like we only I feel like we used to swim like five days a week, like and that's why it always felt so smooth. Now it's like a little disjointed, but I feel like we only probably bring them three days a week now, maybe. Um, and I kind of always remind myself, like, I need to be happy if I want to be able to like make my family happy. So like I I have to get that in, and I'm not I'm gonna be very unhappy if I don't swim for a week and then try to go in the water, that's gonna like that's not gonna end well for anyone. So like I always try to think of it as like they're getting those experiences too, and just like comfortability being with other people that aren't mom and dad. Yes. Um, and I also remind myself, like for me being a teacher, like I have the whole summer with them too. So I try I try to like remind myself of that. Um, that you know, first of all, that they're always in good hands, like because other people like that. I try, you know, they wouldn't be employed at the daycare gym if they're not good people. Um, so that's I always tell myself, and getting experience with other kids and just that I'm gonna be a happier person when I'm done working out and be able to like give myself to them versus like thinking, oh, when's the next time I'm gonna swim? Like, you know, I try to kind of think of those things.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

This is this is so so good. And and again, I wish I wrote a post on LinkedIn a few months ago saying I what would I have told my younger self? And one of them was about strength training. I wish I knew what I know today. It's so important at midlife, but all this information wasn't available. And I, for once, didn't have parents like yours, which is amazing, you know, that were the role models. By the way, let's talk about what your kids are getting out of it, right? It's very likely that they will be active. They don't have to be necessarily an Iron Man, but they would love all the trouble. And so that's amazing. Um, but I I I wish I knew all that, and and I love that we have role models like you that are young and vibrant and continuing because that's what I heard in my research. One of the things is women told me, iron moms told me, I'm a better mom and a wife because I exercise. And uh for me, because it was it was such a void for such a long time, I didn't even know I was missing it. Um, you said something that uh caught my interest and I want to get back to it. You said usually when when I we only had the twins, I would hardly do miss a session, but now with the baby it's getting a little bit more complicated. I every once in a while I will miss a session. What goes through your head when you have to skip a session? Are you disappointed with yourself? Are you do you do you exercise self-compassion and say gentle things to yourself?

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I feel like it's kind of a mix of both. Like I I the first thing I always try to tell myself is tomorrow's a new day. Like you can, if this was like a key running workout, just move it to the next day. Like life goes on. Um, so but then some days there are like, you know, I I'll say something to Ryan, like, you know, I really wish that I would have gotten my run-in today. Like, are you able to watch the kids when we go home from work? Like it was a really important run session or whatever. Um, but I feel like a lot of the times now, like I'm okay with my training piece being read because I I just feel like sometimes I have to prioritize, like if my body needs a recovery day, like I just have to take it and be okay with that and just kind of hope that you know I I eat well and hydrate well and stuff so that I'm prepared better for the next day. And like I think too, like part of it for me, like working out, like I don't know, it I like I said before, it kind of just makes me so happy and like I can I can be happy without working out too. Um but I just I yeah, happier. And so I just try to also find a way that like I can get to bed earlier so that like even if there are interruptions in my my night that I'd be able to be okay with okay, I got seven hours of sleep, even though it was in our un even though it was interrupted, um, I still got seven hours total. So like I can wake up and work out versus like you know, if I complain about it and then don't get to bed until 10 o'clock and I only get five hours of sleep, then definitely don't know working out. So I try to think of like how can I make changes to whatever happened last night so that tomorrow morning I can wake up and work out, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Yes, yes. I I think I'm not as organized as you are. I've seen how you manage your time. But I think a lot of it has to do with habits. I was just thinking, what would make me as a young mom wake up at 4 45 and it's probably not spending half an hour cleaning the sink from last night and folding the laundry because it bothers me, right? So you've I'm I'm assuming you finish all of it the night before so that in the morning when you wake up, everything is ready to just grab the shoes. And I this is my assumption, but yes, is it? Yeah, oh definitely, yeah. So it's like a yeah, that's why I said maybe walk us through the schedule the night before because I figured there must be something happening in the habits in the schedule that allows the morning to be so smooth. The you before kids and the you now is obviously a different body, but same spirit. And I'm curious, same competitive spirit, and I'm curious to know do you feel like you slowed down a little bit? Are you okay with slowing down if you if you will if you are? Or are you still pushing to um beat beat uh you know your own PRs?

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Um, I think I feel like my running hasn't slowed down that much, but I I mean that makes sense. Like I feel like each time I've been pregnant and come back from it, like my running is always the fastest thing to come back. And like I don't I think probably because I've been injured so much in my life that I'm my my body's used to having an injury or you know, it's disruption, I should say, and then coming back. Um biking, I still feel I mean, Gianna's a year old, and I still feel like my biking is just like not where it used to be. Um and I don't know, I think biking because you have to put so much time into it, I think that might be why too. Cause like, you know, I'm lucky maybe on a weekend I can get a two-hour ride in, but like normally during the week, it's like an hour at best versus running. I feel like an hour of running, I can make so many more gains than I can on the bike for an hour. Um, so maybe that's part of it. And swimming, I feel like I'm about where I was before Gianna, so it's okay. But yeah, each time I feel like with the boys, I don't know why it felt like it came back easier. Um, maybe because there was only two of them, you know what I mean? So like I didn't have as big of a like, I guess, mental load too, because it was only two kids and they were in the same stage of life versus now, you know, three and a half year olds are very different from one-year-olds. So like it's just a lot more going on in my brain, maybe. So that's why I'm like even just more tired going into sessions because I have so many other, like, so many logistical things going on in my brain that like I don't have as much energy as I would normally going into a session, definitely not before a kids.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

It seems like though, you don't spend any energy on feeling guilty that you're away from the kids, they're in good hands and and and you're okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Which is amazing. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

One of the things I found out in my research, I did eat, it's called mixed methods, you would know, you're a math teacher. So I had 350 women who answered different surveys with different questions, and then uh a few that I did an in-depth interview, the qualitative part. In the quantitative part, there was the one of the correlations was that moms in the US only, not global audience, in the US only, moms with kids seven and under, so your kids' age, there was a correlation between the kids' age and level of guilt. So they felt guilty when the kids were younger. However, interestingly enough, when I did all the interview, in-depth interview, I heard the different stories. Their moms told me when the kids were younger, we could leave them. They don't know if I was away for one hour or four. When the kids got older and they start verbalizing, I want you to come to my recital, can you come to my game? I want you to be at that's when the guilt started creeping in because missing that felt they could verbalize that they they want you there. So that will be interesting. If you can tell your future Jackie how to deal with it, what what would you what would you say?

SPEAKER_02 35:40

I think maybe like, you know, if if it's a thing like a recital or like a big game and stuff, I would definitely, you know, be there for that. But like if it's you know practices, because I know having parents at practices are seem to be important to kids too. But like I might even come up with like a I'm really into like Excel and using color-coded spreadsheets and stuff. Um, you're not.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

I know of course you are. I literally just made fun for a school field trip thing. That's what I was working on my last plan, period. So um, but I would probably have things like color-coded of like, okay, dad's taking you to this one and mom's gonna be at this one so that the kids could see and like then they wouldn't have any disappointment, like, oh, mama's not there, why isn't mama there? They would know that you know Ryan would be there or grandma would be there. Because I think like then if the kids aren't disappointed, if the kids know what's going on, like if there's a plan in place, like then maybe there's not that level of guilt or that feeling that you're gonna have a disappointed kid because they know what the plan is, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I love what you said. I think it's brilliant, and always brilliance is in the simplest things because what you're doing is that anticipatory, right? You're telling them what's gonna happen. You look ahead, it's not just tomorrow I'm I'm I'm gonna be gone. You tell them a week in advance and you do the color and they're part of it, and maybe they choose, I need mom in this one, I'm okay with dad in this one. I love it, and I think it's such a practical, simple um way to decide as a family and and anticipate uh and and include everyone. I love it. Thank you. I hope it works. I think so. I mean, this is exactly where you're bringing your teacher skills and identity, I think, into parenthood, right? And athleticism, and I'm sure vice versa. Um when you race, do you have a mantra for the hard moments where you're like, my legs are giving up or my head is failing me? Do do you even first of all? Let me ask this: do you have moments where you almost break?

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Oh, yeah. Um, so the second time that we brought the boys to Kona, 2023, um it was brutal. I didn't know that I was riding on a flat tire, a slow leak tire the whole time. Um, had I known that, then it would have made sense on why my legs were suffering for the run. But like I just had no idea until after the race when Ryan brought my bike back and he was like, So did you know your tire was flat the whole time? And I'm like, no. Um, yeah, so that that was a whole different thing. But um, like all I kept thinking was as much as I want to give up, like because my my wanting to go back to Kona, the the boys were 15 months at that point, which was the same age of Chelsea Sidaro's daughter when she won Kona. So like I was like, oh my gosh, this is like meant to be. I'm supposed to go and win Kona. Like, I mean, in my age group, not like win the whole thing. But um, I really truly thought that I was in like that kind of shape. Like I was super confident going in. And then, like I said, I didn't know that I had the flat tire, which is why my legs suffered on the run. But on that part of the run, all I kept thinking was we put so much sacrifice and not just like for the training to get there, but like, you know, we had friends that were there helping with the boys, like Ryan was there helping with the boys, like just so many different things in place. Like, I'm not gonna not finish this race just because I'm having a bad day. Like, I'm physically able to be doing this, like quitting isn't an option. Like if if you know, if I pulled a hamstring or something, then yeah, that might be a different story, but I was just not feeling good. And you know, my bad run is still good for a lot of other people. So, like I kept telling myself, like, just keep going and like your boys are gonna look back someday and see that you persevered even when things were not lining up for you. And uh, the best picture is Ryan's the I don't know who took it. Somebody took a picture. It's me running with like this mad look on my face or like this you know, frustrated look on my face. Ryan's in the background hold holding the boys, probably just as you know, annoyed of his look as I'm seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

I didn't I didn't I didn't get the read of you being upset, but this is interesting. I just thought you were you were exhausted, but yeah, I've seen that photo you uh that you posted.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

And they couldn't look on my watch and the boy, oh, it's it's on my watch right now, and when the boys see it on my watch, they're like, Mama sad, mama sad. I'm like, yeah, that that's one way to put it. Um are they trying to be active? Are they trying to run? Yeah, um, we did Challenge Roth in Germany last year for their third birthday, and there I was so mad. There was a kids' race, but it was raining during it, so they didn't want to run. So here I am running with one of them. Ryan's like dragging the other one by his hand. But when they see us at races now, like they want to run too. So like I'm hoping, you know, Rockford is the next one that we're doing, so maybe they'll have an Iron Kids race there that the boys can do. But we definitely have, you know, some local like one mile type races that we're gonna put them in. Um, because they do like running. They are, they're really active.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Amazing. But and that how you continuing your family legacy of your parents. Yeah. Doing it with you, you guys. I want to stay for a second at the 2023 Kona. You're with the twins. How old they are then? 15 months. They're 15 months, and um, you wrote in the post um something along the lines, excuse me, that it's not the exact words, but something along the lines. It doesn't need to be a killer performance to inspire other mamas. And what did you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Um, just knowing like that my performance wasn't like what I'm capable of or what I came into that race to do. Um, and I knew that too, because like a few months later I did Arizona. And like if I compared myself to the people that did Kona and Arizona, like I would have had I not had that flat tire, I would have placed, I think, second in my age group. So like I did have that performance, I was capable of that performance that like I was.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Which makes it even worse harder to yes, it did make it very frustrating, but um which makes it even harder to digest the fact that you knew you had it in you. It's one thing if you got injured, then yeah. So I I totally understand. So the question was Um, you said it it doesn't take a killer performance to inspire other mamas. And I was wondering what what did you think about that? Why did you say that? And maybe there were stories about other mamas being inspired by you that made you write that.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah, because I think you don't have to be like, you know, at the top level and like, you know, go and win Kona like Chelsea did after having a kid. Like you can just even just being at Kona, but having enough, you know, time put in to be able to qualify at a race to go to Kona is like a huge accomplishment. So I think just like, yeah, it would be nice if everything lines up, but even whether you've had kids or not, like not nothing ever always lines up for an Iron Man. So um just being there and like let it like pushing your body as hard as you can on that day, I feel like is just is inspirational, like that you that all the stars lined, that you were able to like somehow train with children, even getting to that starting line. Like sometimes that's just an accomplishment.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

I mean, for what it takes, I'm not a mom for little kids anymore, and I got inspired, and that's why I was chasing you. I gotta have you for the interview. Um and I in my the beginning of my doctorate degree, you explained a little bit kind of your setup almost like as a almost like it could be a storyline of the the setup and how everyone is at the start line. And one of the things I quoted um Chelsea saying when she did it uh was it 2021? Two, twenty-two. She was saying that as she was running up, I think it was Palani, other women were yelling, do it uh for Sky, do it for the moms, and that gives me chills and I'm like right. And so uh I I I I love that uh example, and I'm sure many moms were inspired. So want to ask something. There's hard trainings, there's sometimes that you skip, you're not met with yourself, you just move on. Um when you are hitting a tough moment, maybe like the one in 2023, do you have a mantra that you keep repeating to yourself that helps you get through it or not?

SPEAKER_02 43:25

I feel like I used to have a mantra for every race that I would go into. But I before kids, I I don't know, I I like would write it down and like have like when I'm gonna say it to myself at different times, like, you know, different parts of the course or whatever. But since having kids, I feel like I I don't at all. Like I just, you know, just try to always remind myself like think of all the the you know effort that you put into the preparation to get here, like even if it wasn't perfect, like the time away from the kids, the all the coordination of other people to be able to give you those moments to be able to train. Like I just kind of think of all the sacrifices that other people have made on my behalf. Half and like I have to go and do this. Like otherwise, their sacrifices were for nothing. Like, I want to make those people proud and like show them that like I'm grateful for all of the support that they provided me with.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yeah. I am not in the business of comparing who has got it harder, moms who work full-time outside of the house or mom who works in the house. I actually think it's harder to stay at home in many ways. But I'm curious to know for you personally, if you were not a teacher working right now full-time, do you think it would have been easier for you to integrate motherhood and sport? Or actually by having one more role, it makes it an efficient machine that makes it, you know, there's no other way but getting it in.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

I feel like I go back and forth on that. Because like yesterday I stayed home from school with my daughter because I had to take, well, we didn't have childcare. So I had to take her to the doctor also for her one-year appointment. So I wasn't at school yesterday, and I still woke up as early as I would and still got my run workout done in the morning. And then um actually my dad came over. He was able to give a couple hours yesterday. So he came over and watched Gianna. Well, she was napping, so he didn't really watch her, but he was at the house while I went and swam when the boys were at preschool. So like part of me does feel like I don't know, because I feel like staying at home, there's more of like a mental load going on. Yeah. Like when I'm at school, I know all of my responsibilities. Like, yes, there's a lot going on, but like I have a checklist. I have like, I know what I'm doing, it's a routine. Versus at home, like with kids, there's always something, you know, that's a wrench in the plans. Like you just never know what it's gonna be. Like you're on your toes a lot more. Like, I feel like making even more decisions, like, so there's that mental fatigue piece. Like, I feel like yesterday when Ryan, by the time Ryan came home, I'm like, I'm exhausted. Uh and I didn't even go to school today. So I think, I think the unpredictability of kids, like being a stay-at-home mom, even well, that I did for a whole day. And I feel that way in the summer too. Like when I'm, you know, a stay-at-home mom, because teaching and I'm out for the summer, I feel like kind of the same thing. I just I just have so many more pivots that I have to make. Like I have to make more adjustments on the fly than I would necessarily with a schedule and a routine at school. Because yeah, kids will throw things at me all the time, you know, like that have to change some plans or like a kid was absent, things like that. But um, at home, like you can predict those kind of things with school, you know what I mean? At home, I don't know what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Like, and there's also, I think at work sometimes a team member you can pull in and ask, can you cover for me for 10 minutes? Okay, there's none of it at home. You are the one who is orchestrating everything. So yeah, again, I'm not comparing it's individual, but I have been in both worlds, kind of. I've worked full-time. One of my jobs was at Microsoft. I had to fly every time from Philadelphia to Seattle while I'm having four kids at home, nursing.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Don't ask.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Brutal. But yeah, right. But then and then I um started my own business a few years ago where I could control my time, but you're also you have half time of your own practice, but also full-time stay at home. And it's just like I don't know what was easier, actually. I think maybe working full-time was somewhat easier because you could I said in in an interview um earlier this week with someone else, I said I felt like there were some meetings that you can coast because it's like you're invited, but maybe you're not managing the meeting, so you're listening, but you can also like drink coffee. Yeah, it doesn't happen so much at home. But, anyways, uh for you, it sounds like um more to come uh on that. Um before we transition to the rapid fire, I want to ask you one last question. What would you like a mom standing on the sideline cheering in a race, maybe for a husband or her best friend uh racing, take from your story?

SPEAKER_02 47:43

Um, just that, you know, like the saying is like anything is possible, like as long as you have a solid support system. I think that's the biggest limiter for a lot of people, like whether that support system is like how my parents are so helpful all the time with in terms of childcare and even like the gym childcare situation. Like if you don't have all those different supports, like last summer I would hire high school or yeah, junior high kids um to come over and just hang out with the boys while I trained. Um, just have like so having those people in place, like just having a system in place that'll support you and know that your goals are important to you. I think that's the biggest way that you can set yourself up to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

A thousand percent. I think it's so important what you're saying, right? Some people will listen and say, duh, but it's so important because a lot of what people might think endurance sport is all about is your abilities, mental and physical. And I think so much of it, if not more, is the societal um um support that you're getting, either from the spouse, from a club, from a coach, whatever your village is, it doesn't have to be a big village. You can also have a small village of two, but that that support is uh came up again and again in all the interviews that I did. So I I love what you said. Ready for the sp uh rapid fire? Yeah. What's something you're terrible at that will surprise other people?

SPEAKER_02 49:00

I mean, Ryan would probably say cooking, it's not my strong suit. I hate doing it.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Um I guess no, I'm the default parent, so I usually do cook, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Um You're so good at everything. No, just I'm just trying to think of like the thing that would be surprising. Maybe like um anything that's like agility-based. Like I have no coordination, like, so I don't know all all the sports and stuff that fall into that category. Like, I I don't I don't want to do yoga in front of anyone. I don't want to try any type type thing like that in front of anyone because it's embarrassing for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

That's a good and funny answer. Um, I feel like I know the answer based on the fact that you qualified iron ends, but half or full?

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Full, but right now in this stage of life, I feel like we have to do half.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

When you train podcast, music, or quiet?

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Um, I usually have uh the TV on. Um, and it's usually just like, you know, TV shows that are on like NBC, CVS that are like anyone that comes down is like, oh, you're watching this show. Like I love the Chicago shows, like Chicago PD, Chicago Fire, because it's Chicago stuff, you know, it's fun to recognize things. So those type of shows.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

And you were able, by the way. I'm curious about this because for me, TV sometimes takes me away from like I'd say I have to do it at hard interval, multiple intervals, then you have to pay attention to the time. And it doesn't confuse you.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

No, I think because I have like maybe that math mindset of mine, I don't know. Because I when I'm doing a race, I'm always thinking about like, you know, I'm dividing it in half and quarters and eighths and stuff on the bike. Like, so maybe that's the math thing that I can keep like the numbers in my head, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Yeah, yeah. I could see that um as a good answer. Okay. Another one that may be hard to answer. What did you believe about yourself at 22 that turned to be wrong?

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Um well, that I'm that I'm meant to be this like strong runner because I I truly thought like when I was in college, I was gonna go and not in the Olympics, Olympics, but the Olympic trials. Like that was 100% what I was gonna do. And um, I thought that running was gonna be my life. And uh Ryan completely converted me to triathlon. He he by the way, he's a triathlon coach?

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Yeah, yeah. That's really good to have at home. Very handy. Um what's harder? Mild 20 on an Iron Man or hard day in the classroom.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

I think probably the hard day in the classroom, just because I feel like with seventh graders, there's so much emotional like baggage that they come in with that it's like the emotional part is so draining.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

So that I have a seventh grader, my youngest, and I can totally see that this and also that split personality, right? What's happening at school and then at home there when the teacher writes you a note, we're like, Are you sure it's my child? Yes, I've had a lot of people. That's very different because of all the social pressure, and I I get that, yeah, definitely. All right. Three last question. What's one word that describes you as a teacher?

SPEAKER_03 52:13

Um totally. Totally. What's one word that describes you as an athlete?

SPEAKER_02 52:26

What's a I'm trying to think of like the word that you would say, like like perseverance, like how would I say that as a one word? Like I like I persevere. Yeah, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Right, the passion and perseverance. Yes. And the last one, what one word describes you as a mama? Loving. Oh. Well, I loved spending time with you. You are such an incredible young woman and such a great role model for kids at the school, kids at home. Um, and I I am honored that you gave me the 50 minutes that you did, or a little bit more, um, to to sit with me today. So thank you so much, Jackie.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Thank you. This was this was like the best use of my planti all week. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

All right.