Private Culture
This is Private Culture — private conversations about all things culture.
Hosted by Ingrid Paskell.
Made by North Node.
Private Culture
E6; Private conversation with Bobby Bovell - The many lives of Bobby Bovell, Part 1.
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This is Private Culture - Private conversations about all things Culture.
In this episode of Private Culture, host Ingrid Paskell is in her Studio Space in Copenhagen. She sits down with London-native-Copenhagen-based artist and career-wizard Bobby Bovell.
This time Ingrid’s iconic green Togo is swapped out for a new edition to the eclectic collection. They explore and discuss a wide variety of subjects; being nepo-babies, unconventional paths in life, switching careers (many times), reading Hebrew, taking chances, faith and community.
This conversation offers a behind-the-scenes peek into the world of someone who is unapologetically themselves and really acts on what matters to them.
There is a lot wisedom, personal stories, and practical advice offered as Bobby generously shares from the unique perspectives he has gathered in his many lives - combining knowledge, soul and creativity - Bobby is truly one of a kind, and his life reflects directly his mindset.
Bobby is born in London, Caribbean parents, and based in Copenhagen.
He is the founder of Alfa Munk - see instagram link below.
Stay tuned for Part 2 - the many lives of Bobby Bovell.
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Follow Bobby Bovell :
Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/bobbybovell?igsh=eHM0eml4Y3FkOWt3
Alpha Munk : https://www.instagram.com/alfamunk/
Follow Ingrid Paskell:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ingrid.paskell/
Follow Private Culture :
Instagramm: https://www.instagram.com/private__culture/
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Credits
Host: Ingrid Paskell
Guest: Bobby Bovell
Creative Director: Simon Søby
Sound Design & Edit: Carsten Sherpa, Simon Søby
Music: Giordano Léon Makholm
Art Work: Peter Westh
Producer: Ingrid Paskell, Simon Søby
Presented by: North Node
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Hello, this is Private Culture Podcast by North Node, Private Conversations about all things culture. We explore creativity, culture, and connection through authentic dialogue with all kinds of cultural architects and disruptors, bridging the personal and the professional, giving you a glimpse into creative worlds that you might not have access to or even thought about otherwise. So here's the episode. Let's go. Hey, so I'm still in Copenhagen, and the studio has been updated a little bit. I've swapped out the Togo. I've just moved it to another spot in the room, but I've swapped it out for another sofa called the Dante Serpentine Sofa. Just trying something new. We'll see what happens. Maybe I'll sell it. Maybe I'll keep it. But um I'll definitely post pictures of it as we start the episode off talking about it. It looks it's very comfortable. It doesn't look like that. It looks very artsy, but um it's surprisingly comfortable. Which is one of the reasons why I'm like, should I keep it? We'll see. But for this episode, I sit down with Bobby Bovell. I knew when I started the podcast, it's like I I have to talk to Bobby. I really, really want to talk to Bobby because I just think that the way that he has so fearlessly pursued his curiosity and what felt right, and not cared about what people thought or like the very kind of conventional measures of oh, fame, success, you know, all these different things. I just think is so inspiring. And um yeah, it takes courage to really follow your heart and follow your interests, and it takes a lot of self-worth also to believe in yourself that things are gonna work out. Um and yeah, so uh the conversation is is incredible, but there's also just so much more that I wanted to get into, so I'm probably gonna make a part two because we didn't even get to what Bobby actually does for a living today. Um, because there's just so much interesting things to dive into. But just a little bit for context before we start, um Bobby and I uh we met in London, but he lives in Copenhagen now, um, and he's from London, and one of the things that also connected us was the fact that or is the fact that both of our parents are famous musicians. Um my mom is a singer, her name is Sissel, and Bobby's dad is Dennis Bobel, who's a very famous reggae musician. Um, so yeah, so just a little bit of her context for people who might not know, um, that's something that we also talk a little about. We briefly discuss the whole Nepo baby thing. Enjoy.
SPEAKER_03Hello, and welcome back to the rest of your life. Everything is going to be fine. Especially if you decide that it's gonna be fine. Remember. Alright, cool.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03So are we putting this? Yeah, we're we're talking into these. This is very cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just it it is very cool. It's very casual.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it's this is my this is one of my favorite mics.
SPEAKER_00Is it?
SPEAKER_03It is. I think my I feel like my voice always sounds really delicious in these types of mics.
SPEAKER_00I mean I like it too. Yeah. I think it's and honestly, that was one of the m the main things that I when I was I knew I wanted to start the podcast was that I know I'm gonna be recording while travelling. So I'm gonna be in environments that are gonna be super unpredictable, and I don't want to be tied to being to needing to be in a studio or a soundproof room or yeah, yeah. So I knew that it's like I'm gonna invest in some good mics that can really pick up the voice and also really um makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Very, very nomadic approach to your podcasting. Yes, yes. I like it. We can pick up sticks and do this anywhere. Yeah, I think that's uh that that's beautiful in itself.
SPEAKER_00Also a little bit um, I think it's also a little bit that feeling of like, I want to depend on nobody.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, there's a lot to be said for that, especially if you know you're thinking about you know culture and being able to, as you said, pick up as I said, pick up sticks and just say, All right, um let me look at the culture from a different place. It's like you're you're a you're a researcher of uh of unique individuals around the globe. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so Bobby, um where are we right now?
SPEAKER_03We are in the magnificent uh space studio of uh Ingrid here in Ammar. I I walked in, I was like hit and hit by a immediate wow effect. No, so I was like, wow, this place looks fantastic. Yeah. I noticed the sofa straight away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, trying out on your couch, we'll see what happens with it. But it feels good. Yeah, that's good. You're the first guest to be on, not in the togo, but on a it's called Dender Serpentine Sofa.
SPEAKER_03Dender Serpentine sofa, okay.
SPEAKER_00Like a snake serpentine, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So um it's gorgeous. Feels it's comfortable. Surprisingly comfortable given the shape.
SPEAKER_00It's very comfortable. It's very balanced.
SPEAKER_03You would you would think that you'd sort of be sitting here balancing and being like, oh, what do I do?
SPEAKER_00But it feels like very, very comfortable. And the door is open, the sun is out. Oh yes. I feel like I don't know if the mics are gonna pick it up, but we have a little um um me and my neighbours are a little dysfunctional family here in in Silangill. We have we have um a pond. A pond with a fish in them, and all the fishes are named after big female singers, so it's like Mariah, Cher.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean Um, so yeah, so I don't know if if the sound is gonna pick up the the water running. Do you hear it the water running? I do, and that is also very calming, yes. Super calming, it's so nice sitting outside and also falling asleep too. And yeah, it's great. It's great. Life is good here in Celia and Gill. Oh yes. But um, okay, so I wanna start with when I met you, because I think that's uh very logical. But also it's an interesting place, I think, in your life because you were you were kind of in between um careers and um yeah, we met in 2019, 18, something like that. Somewhere around there. And the funny thing is is that we we were put in touch by two different people. Yeah. Yeah. One was Charlie, shout out Charlie. Yeah, hey Charles. Yes, amazing healer, and but well I met Charlie because she had the sustainable fair trade clothing store in Copenhagen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's where I met her too. Yeah, and we met her there too.
SPEAKER_00And um and she without knowing her, this is so her because she's such a you know, psychic medium healer type person. Very intuitive. You have to meet Bobby. I was like, oh, okay. And she like found you on Instagram and you know, I started following you and all this, and then half a year later, um, at uni, I have a lecturer who tells me, Oh, Copenhagen, you're from Copenhagen. You should you should meet Bobby. And I was like, who is this Bobby person that like now this woman, this amazing woman in this shop in Copenhagen, and now my lecturer in London at the uni you know at Westminster University now has been like, you have to meet this person. So I reached out and I think I reached out being being a little bit like, I hope you don't think this is weird, but people keep telling me that we need to meet.
SPEAKER_02I didn't think it was weird, but I was like, okay, let's let's go with it then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I have no idea who you are, but we have to meet. And so we met, we met at this bakery in close to the King's Road, close to the Sarchi Gallery. And then we just like, I think we were there until they closed, and we just talked and talked and talked about music, about life, yeah, about everything. And the reason that the lecturer connected us was because you did my degree.
SPEAKER_03I did.
SPEAKER_00It's sometime earlier.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, a lot earlier. That's very kind of you. It's like 20 years earlier or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, and then you moved to Copenhagen. And um and I just feel like you're yeah, I I've been very excited for you to do this, and and I have a feeling we're gonna do a part two because you're just one of those people that have so much wisdom, but you also have like I mean, I feel like you you really have nine different lives or like are working your way up to filling the roster of nine different lives.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's a lot of different uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because you start off with music in London. Yes. And you make this incredible album that you made independently.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Not signed. No. No label involved at all. No. Really?
SPEAKER_03No label. Any like management, any I mean we had you know, we had a team of uh of people who were doing stuff like, okay, how should how should the visuals look? And you know, professionals, uh but people from my network, you know. What what should the styling be like? Um what should the uh what should the soundscaping be like, how should, you know, what should your position be in the market, so to speak? But there was no real massive budget or push in terms of marketing it or promoting it. It was all very grassroots and um just based on community, based on people connecting to to the messages of the music and uh knowing them. So yeah, no no no record label involvement at all.
SPEAKER_00And it gets nominated for a MOBO.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it got nominated. It is, and I was completely shocked. I thought, well, how do they even know who I am? What do you what do you mean I've been nominated for a MOBO? Um so that was that was also really cool, and then then uh you know uh having having the opportunity to then meet all of the other artists who were nominated. And one really cool thing was what happened was I got to meet one of my musical idols, which is uh Omar Lifhook, because he was also nominated the same year. And I remember I I called them over and I was like, Have you done the seating plan yet? They were like, Yeah, we're working on it. I was like, can can you can you seat me next to Omar?
SPEAKER_02Really? Yeah, and they did.
SPEAKER_03So so at the not at the award ceremony that I was sitting next to Omar, and yeah, that was that was cool.
SPEAKER_00But that's the same Omar who's been who came to visit you here, right?
SPEAKER_03Um Omar, not to visit me specifically, he was here, he's been here lots of times, and he's been on tour with with Danish bands. Uh uh, my good friend Jonas Rembo and the the five to eights, and the rest of the crew there have but you know, not the five to eights, but that crew of musicians have um backed him on like a tour um in different parts of Africa and stuff. So and he's been here and done gigs, and and the most recent time he was here was actually for Jonas's birthday party where he performed and oh nice, yeah. So it was it was really cool, and then yeah, so so he he listened to the album and then he gave me like a cool quote, like you know, it's a nice selections of tunes on heavy rotation in my car, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I was listening to my album. He thinks it's good. Um that that kind of made me feel like I was good, you know, because uh yeah, with my dad being a musician and and uh you know sort of feeling you have to earn it, then I yeah I felt like okay, well he he yeah, he he thinks it's good anyway. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because that was also one of the things that we we really bonded over, having parents that are both in the industry, yeah, and kind of both having like our own musical universe, but then also being very clear on we're not our parents. Yeah, yeah. So and we don't want to be. So so we also want to kind of find our own way and explore other careers and do other things and and distinct and also just yeah, just the whole kind of classic, which everybody goes through regardless of what their parents do, but just figuring out what life is about and who they are. Yeah, definitely. Um and yeah, and so we definitely also can kind of weigh in heavily on the whole Nepo baby discussion, and then at the same time also Yeah, kind of see the the pros and cons.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's also interesting though, because both like you know, I don't think that either you or me could be described as Nepo babies in the classical sense because it's not like I feel like both for both of us, and and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's never been like okay, this is this is something that you're gonna have as a result of who your parents are. That that for me is the classic Nepo baby sort of situation where you inherit a career or maybe you inherit um some kind of uh I don't know uh prestige or influence in in that way. There are elements of that, of course, but I think that you know my dad's always been really clear on you better you better be good, you better you better be the best, you better, you know, whatever you want to do. And he never pushed me into music, or you know, in some ways he kind of actively discouraged me. Uh so it was always like you know, that's one of the reasons why I did the course because my dad was like, if you want to do music, oh you want to do music, then you're gonna go to uni. And at the time I was like, yeah, he didn't go to uni. No, exactly. Um he's probably the only one in his family that hasn't, because they're all about lots of academics in his his family. He when he became a musician, it was like, You're gonna do what? Um that this was this was all in uh in Barbados, yeah, in Barbados and UK and different parts, you know, Canada and different places. But so but my point is that he he said to me, You have to go if you want to do music, you have to go and study for for a degree. And then I then I applied, but I felt like it was a bit backwards because I was like, Well, we're already on tour, Dad. Like I was and I was I was playing on some stuff and and I was working, you know, I was on tour with him and um you know worldwide, we're like we're in Japan, or we're in we're in Brazil, or we're in, you know, we're in South Africa or we're in wherever, Spain, you you name it, we've been we've been he's taking me everywhere, right? And I was like, what's the point of me now stopping this? Because I had to stop working for him to go to uni to learn about music when I'm already doing it. Like the people I was thinking saying to him, the people that are there is because they want to get into the industry. I'm in the industry, why? But I'm so glad that he he uh he insisted because it it rounded me and then gave me the opportunity to have a bachelor's that I could then pivot and do other things, and if that hadn't happened, I wouldn't be in the place where I am now.
SPEAKER_00No. But that's another thing that I that I think which to me is a little bit the whole Nepo thing, which is that although people like if anything, my mum has been kind of like pushing me away from it, I feel. And like, like, no, don't, don't, don't, don't. Um like maybe you should think about but have you have you what about you've oh you're very good at you know but um and obviously I do lots of different things, so it's not it's not like like like I I kind of did take her advice, but but I think that what I definitely feel like and what you can maybe also attest to from what you're saying is that you know it becomes a little bit of course it's it's gonna be an advantage because even if they don't do anything to kind of encourage or help you or or like you know be like, I'll call this person, or you know, like oh I'm I'm gonna be in the room and make sure you get a good deal or whatever, then it's um it's just by proximity as well that it's like you've like for example, like we've grown up on tour, we've grown up like the the conversations that we're having around our like kitchen table was about you know session musicians and you know dealing with labels or like you know planning a tour and like doing all this. So so there was a lot of stuff that just by being in that world and around it that we just learned without anybody having to tell us about it. And also learnt in I think in the in um in kind of seeing behind the curtain in that way that you know the stuff that it actually requires, like how how much you have to sacrifice, yeah. And um how hard you have to work and yeah, yeah, and like and um and the very nomadic circus-esque type lifestyle that you you have to you have to have the temperament for.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and also the whole dealing with dealing with fame and and um losing parts of your life or people you know uh not being able to uh walk down the street without someone wanting to talk to you. Yeah, so so and I mean obviously they they they do it and they they have a lot of energy for people and always are very kind and gracious, but um we've also seen, like you said, the reality of it. I've grown up in the studio, like when my dad's recording some of his biggest hits, I remember being in the studio at the time. Right.
SPEAKER_00Did you know? Could you hear that it's like, oh, this is different?
SPEAKER_03No, no, I just saw it as another day because you know, you know, there's the hits that he's got, but then there's also you know, thousands of other songs he's done that have maybe never been released, or you know, artists that never actually came out, or you know, projects that didn't end up going being shipped anywhere. So I don't really feel like I ever thought, okay, yeah, this is this is gonna be a bit hit, but look looking back, you know, uh I'm like okay, wow, I was in I was in the room for that. Um maybe not for a particular song, but definitely for for that album, then I would have been in there at that time, right? And I didn't know, you know, you're just hearing like a drum track for everything, and then bass tracks for everything and keyboard tracks for everything, so you're not necessarily seeing the whole picture uh until it it comes out. But um my point is that that's a part of my brain, so yeah, I I agree that when it comes to music, there are certain things that I understand about structure, there's certain things I understand about how to create music that I haven't learned anywhere else apart from being in proximity, yeah. So yeah, so in that way I feel like, yeah, you're right when you know Nepo babies for sure. But but uh but what my point is that you know when people talk about Spama being a Nepo baby, often I feel like there's a sort of negative connotation that's like, okay, this person got this just because they are, yeah, but I'm like, okay, but they don't realise that that we've got parents who are are professionals and who are not gonna let us slide with being mediocre. If anything, we're held to task at a higher level because you do have that family legacy to live up to. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00100%, 100%, 100%. And um, but then one thing that that really surprised me, and now we're getting into all the the many lives of Bobby Bobell, which should just be its own podcast series, I feel it's not a bad title.
SPEAKER_02So no, it's not the many lives of Bobby Bobell or a TV show. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It could be it could be it could be all of it. Why limit it? Why limit it? Why limit it? But um I feel like so you did the the album independently released it, because that's also another thing where I feel like you know, you also get sorry, I want to move away from the Neppo Baby topic, but but both like in terms of what you've grown up with, it's also I see that as well with like a lot of my family friends are also people in the industry. Same thing, you know, whereas like kind of like oh yeah, my so there's artists, even even if it's like artists like you know, like like painters and all this, and it's like, oh yeah, well that's just my godmother.
SPEAKER_03So that's why I know I was at that art exhibition and yeah, you know, in Venice and like I feel as well, like it's almost like a magnetic pool because there's all the people that you've grown up with that you know from industry wise, and then because they're pair because you know they're just hanging around and know each other, yeah. And then uh you meet their kids and you know them. Yeah, and then there's also Like when I meet people and then I'll find out that okay, this person is you know their dad is whoever, and and I'm like, how am I am I attracting these people? Are we are we magnetically attractive? How is this possible? Everyone I meet is just like no, okay, another one, all right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's it's funny.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, but I suppose it's also like attracts like maybe your your vibe attracts your tribe in some way.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, well the law of attraction, you can you can get into all of that, all of that, you know. 100%. But um, but yeah, no, so when we meet, you've done the album, The Mobo, you've done like you've kind of did you feel like you kind of proved yourself a little bit to the industry, like once you totally and the fact that you did it all independently, totally.
SPEAKER_03I felt I felt really like um people weren't necessarily expecting it from you or weren't expecting it to be good or weren't expecting I don't know if that's just in my head, it's probably just a limiting belief in my head because typically people, you know, uh have been very kind and and even still listen to that stuff even now. Where I where I sometimes feel like okay, I've moved on in my head from where that was, even though I like what that was, but you know, as an artist, you're you're creating all the time and you're on the next project and someone's listening to a song that you did 10 years ago and it's cool, but you're like, oh well, you know, I wrote this one yesterday. Yeah, yeah. It's just it's just another song that you've written out of out of hundreds that you know is is a different level. So so yeah, I I I definitely felt like it it gave me it gave me a credibility of my own as an artist.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then after that you went and became a police officer.
SPEAKER_03Well no, this is the thing. This is the thing. So the so you have to get the the the the uh chronologic chronology in order, right? So I actually became a police officer before it was in between, sorry. Yeah, so I came I I was uh I met police officer before um doing the album, but after doing uni.
SPEAKER_00Why?
SPEAKER_03Um I th I suppose for every little kid we've all played at you know cops and rubbers and or sort of being superhero. I think I've I've got some form of um I don't know, Messiah Complex or something. I want to do jobs where I'm a hero. And uh I just thought this is this would be a great, you know, you this is this is the closest you get to being a superhero. I was always into comics and uh a bit of a uh you know uh yeah, Marvel and uh DC. Like I've still got I've still got hundreds of comics that I had when I was a kid, and and I got into it because I wasn't I didn't really like reading, so that got me into reading. One of my cousins was reading comics, and then I started reading the comics, and then that led me into being uh an avid reader, right? Um so we're like now I probably read like at lead at least one month, one book a month every every year since then, right? Um just on all sorts of topics, but anyway, uh so so I I did it because I wanted to do something completely different.
SPEAKER_00Completely different. I wanted to do something completely okay. So you go from being on tour with your dad, touring the world, working for him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, were you in the band or were you like I wasn't in the band, but I played on I played on some stuff. You played on someone. I used to be a trombone player, that was my first my first trombone. Yeah, so I played I played on some some projects and uh yeah and it's crazy because I was in Japan a couple of years ago and I met one of my dad's friends who's got this reggae bar there called Open, you know, shout out Harry Asu, uh Uncle Harry, and he he we went to his house uh afterwards and he showed me an album, like a vinyl album of the recordings that we did at that time. And I see a picture of me with the trombone, I was like, I nearly forgot all about that that I did that. It was kind of crazy, and I was just playing it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I wasn't the band.
SPEAKER_03My point is I was the sound engineer. I was the I I was the I was the on stage sound engineer, so the monitor engineer at first, and then the the guy that was doing the monitor engineer got let go, and I and I got um pushed into the role of doing front of house sound.
SPEAKER_00Wow, okay. So I'm just gonna quickly for all the people that have no idea how what these terms mean. You're talking to the civilians now. I'm talking to the civilians I am okay. So when you're on stage, you have monitors, which are basically the speakers for the musicians. Yes. So the speakers for the people that are on stage so that they can hear what they are playing in real time. And um, and then you have different sounds, so everybody will have their own monitors, or you'll have in-ears. Yes, but it depends a a little bit, but then monitors or in-ears, and um, and so for example, for a singer, like they might be like, I don't really need to hear the drums that much and the bass that much, but I really need the piano because that's what what's gonna give me my notes. So they're gonna usually have like piano, guitar, like these tonal instruments, like way higher in their mix, way higher in their monitor or their in ears, where like it's super important for the drummer to be able to hear the bass because they are doing the whole foundation. So you're gonna have be like, don't really need that much vocal, like not listening that much to the singer. I just really need to know where the bass is at. And then you kind of so that's this that they there's always like a separate sound engineer for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so there's a stage mix of music, and then there's a front of the house and front of the house is the audience. That's the audience, exactly. Because when you're on stage, you can't hear, you're behind the speakers, so you can't hear you can't hear the speaker. What's going on and then going out, and there's two different worlds, two different worlds, two different worlds.
SPEAKER_00So um in terms of sound, yeah. Yeah, in terms of but um okay, so you go from being on tour, traveling the world, being in the industry, being professional, and then just you know, suddenly being like, Why do I need to go to uni? And then you go to uni, end up being super happy to go to uni because it just shapes you as a person. And I do think that's important. Like, I I think that that's also the reason why my mum was so like kind of study this, go do that, like you know, oh great, you're opening a gallery, let's go, you know, kind of like you want to do this, let's go. Because it is very much about like, you know, at least for them who got professional and just caught in this whirlwind because of their talent and because of the times and um and where the industry was at as well at that time, you know, they got caught up in that at such an early age, and then it can be really difficult to get out, and suddenly then you're you you know, you're like, wait, okay, I haven't done anything else for 25 years, and I've done it since I was like 16. I don't like I don't really know how to do anything else, or like I don't know if I want to do anything else, or I don't know if I can do anything else, and there's just like there's just like a different, it's it's a very bizarre and quite isolating experience, and so few of your peers can actually relate to that. And I can imagine like athletes have a bit the same, um, but within athletic careers there's often a shelf life, there's often like a cutoff point where like if you're if you play your cards right in entertainment and and music, the game is to have the longevity of like your dad, for example, who is still going strong, yeah, and you know, yeah. One of my friends, Cash met him on the set of the Steve McCor the the McQueen movie. Right, the small acts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So he's he's still doing all like he wasn't playing himself, he he had a character that you was there was a character that he was playing in uh in the dance. Uh in the dark, yeah. But uh yeah, he's I mean the same, he's you know, since he's the teenager, right? Been been professional musician.
SPEAKER_00So I think it's quite wise of them to kind of be like, go out, like fuck around and find out before you kind of get locked in and exactly because if the industry gets a hold of you, it can be really hard to let go. Yeah. So so you go from being sound engineer trombone player on tour with your dad, uni, suddenly finding yourself a little bit more, and then figuring out you don't want to do music and you want to become a police officer. Yeah, so now you're a police officer in London. Yeah. Were you wh wh which station were you at?
SPEAKER_03I was at a station called Belgravia.
SPEAKER_00Belgravia? Yeah. Posh.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was very posh.
SPEAKER_00You refused to wear a uniform. No, I didn't refuse to use it.
SPEAKER_02I was in uniform. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03I was on yeah, I was in uniform and uh out and uh in the in the car returning, you know, responding to calls. Uh did you become a detective? Public safety? No, I mean we did some, you know, I did would have done you do some plane clothes work, um, you know, on as a part of different initiatives or whatever, but I wasn't a detective as such.
SPEAKER_00No. How many years?
SPEAKER_03Um in total, the whole experience was like three years, so from start to finish. And uh yeah, so yeah, then then I decided I wanted to do something else. I was happy being there. I mean I enjoyed it. Uh you know, you know, you've got lots of stories, uh some you can you can reflect on afterwards and say, okay, yeah, that that that made sense. Others where you think um this was this was a great time of life for me to learn more about myself, you know. Do you want to share? Um I've got I've got lots of stories. I mean, I know that when it comes to being there, um, you know, there are there are some things you you can't share, some things you can. Oh yeah. But um confidentiality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but um you know, just the whole experience of making someone feel safe, yeah. Right? Um protecting somebody or um supporting a victim of crime, that that was some of the stuff that I f that I felt was was most valuable there. Also, situations where I know that I made an impact on someone's future through through guidance or through through compassion, through empathy, uh and sort of you know being being there to yeah, like I said, protect someone who who needed it and who needed someone with authority to do that for them. Otherwise they would have ended up in a situation that was uh disadvantageous for them. So yeah, like I said, I can't really go into details about it. There were just lots of situations where I I could I could I felt like I helped somebody today. Yeah, I used the power that I have in the right way so that um someone doesn't have fewer options but has more options in life.
SPEAKER_00I think that's really powerful. I also think it's really powerful that you you connected the words compassion and empathy to police work. Yeah. Because that's something that I think is not very highly associated with that authority in that um Well, that's the way it should be, you know.
SPEAKER_03I mean completely agree with that. You know, I think um I think that uh in the UK when I did my training, one of the things they emphasised was there's a we are a police service, not a police force. Oh and the wording means something, right? If you're a police force, then that has some behaviour and some intention behind it. And if you're a police service, then it also has some intentions and some behavior behind it. And that was one of the reasons why I joined, right? Not I didn't I wanted to be a I wanted to be a help, you know, I was trying to be a superhero, like I said. So you wanted to be of service, yeah. I wanted to be of service, you know. Um if uh yeah, so so it's also like okay, there's for some people, if we've we all think about it, right? You know, the fact that if you're in an emergency situation and you know that you need someone to help you because you're in physical danger or because um you know someone is someone is um threatening you or threatening you or someone is um someone is stalking you or someone is uh you know someone is is trying to defraud you or whatever, you know, and you need someone who can look at the situation and assess it and see that actually um there's someone who was right and there's someone who was wrong in this situation, um then that for me is is is what you know uh is a a big part of what my role was as a police officer.
SPEAKER_00Um but I think it's interesting as well because a lot of the stuff that it seems like you then you know took away as the the personal rewards of doing that job, which was the the way that you were able to be of service to others but also guide and influence and see the way that you could help people. Um and um Yeah, I think it's interesting that that leads into the next life. Oh my gosh, yeah. Which um which kind of feels like taking a lot of those energies and just diving deeper into that.
SPEAKER_03Sure. So Well I think I think um one one of the um uh I was uh had an interaction with a a member of the public who'd got themselves into some trouble and I asked them you know why why why have you gone into this life? And they were like the answer is drugs, like that's why. Um because they're an addict, right? Um and I think okay, if somebody's saying that that that's the reason, then I'm getting in here a little bit late with my compassion and my empathy.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03Right, because the decisions that they're making now leave me with fewer options or leave them with fewer options because now you've you've you've um you've gone over the line, um, and and it's not like people don't have to take responsibility for their actions, everyone has to take responsibility for their actions, but I just thought, okay, what if they had had guidance earlier?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What if they'd met you earlier?
SPEAKER_03Well, well no not necessarily just me, but like what if what if they had what if they had had um a community around them that could help them to medicate in a more healthy way, yeah, right? Because we all medicate, it's just that some of us you know some of us have more uh destructive ways of medicating and others have more, you know, less destructive ways of medicating. So I was like, okay, what can what what what what job could I do where I actually can uh get to people earlier and create some community and create some values around it. And I was like, okay, the the way to do that is to be like a priest. That's the way to do it. So then I made switch number two. Okay, but it was also it was also like my own um my own spiritual journey. It wasn't just about that, but it was also about okay, how does the universe work? Like, what is the nature of reality? Those are the types of questions I was thinking about. I realised that not many people or that that wasn't normal. I thought that was normal for people to think about it like that, but I didn't realise that it wasn't something that a lot of people ever thought about. Like it doesn't matter, right? And and to me it did. So I wanted to like I wanted to study ancient languages and ancient uh religious texts and be able to say, okay, what is the root of this? Like, you know, does it give us any information about how life should be lived or about the meaning of of of reality? Uh so so yes, I then I went and studied theology and uh yeah instead and became a priest.
SPEAKER_00And what what what ancient languages did you Aramaic?
SPEAKER_03But Hebrew. Um and uh I touched on a little bit of Greek, but then uh I was like, yeah, I don't know if this is gonna be uh for me, but I started I started learning it, right? And then I decided okay, no, I'm gonna go with the Hebrew. So then I I uh and again because I had the the bachelor's in music, then I could do a a gap year or a a a sort of access year, okay, and then go straight into a theology master's.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03So so that was like I had I I felt like I was being tested, but in a in a kind way, where they were like, okay, you you don't have information, you don't have you know the background on this subject matter, so you have to take a year and do access year in the basics of of theology before you can go into the masters, and if you can prove that you are sufficient there, then you can go and enter the master's programme. A part of that was learning um biblical Hebrew.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03So that was and that became my favourite subject. I was like, I got I always got A's in in Hebrew. I was like, this is this is so fun.
SPEAKER_00Do you still do you still remember Zim Hebrew?
SPEAKER_03Um it's not spoken Hebrew, right?
SPEAKER_00So it's not modern Hebrew, but yeah, I mean uh if I put if I put prayer Hebrew right in front of you right now, would you be able to read it?
SPEAKER_03Probably. It's been a while because you want to test it. Yeah, let's let's have a go. Let's have a go and see what's still there. It's been years.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'm gonna get my little my granddad's little pocket Torah out.
SPEAKER_03Okay. The pocket Torah.
unknownPocket Torah, it's very cute. It's up here in the kitchen. I don't know why, but we've always kept it in the kitchen.
SPEAKER_03Alright.
unknownSo we just had it by the salt and pepper.
SPEAKER_03So it's a pocket torah, so so you've got you've got okay, so Genesis.
SPEAKER_00What do you want to do?
SPEAKER_03If you give me, if you give me Genesis, I probably can still read that beginning of it.
SPEAKER_00Is it because you know it by heart? That's cheating.
SPEAKER_03No, no, I don't have my glasses on though, so this is also an issue, but we'll see.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I can I I can remember it by heart. I'm um um I I can remember the first first, you know, uh Genesis chapter one, verse one, you know, Boroshiv Bara and everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so okay, I'm I'm just gonna open on like a random page. Okay.
SPEAKER_03But I can't see it. I don't have my glasses, so this is this is this is an issue.
SPEAKER_00This is an issue?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this is an issue. I can't see this really properly. And I don't have my glasses with me. It's very small though. Yeah, it is very small.
SPEAKER_00It's very small.
SPEAKER_03That okay, I can tell you that uh uh shadar. No, not kadar.
SPEAKER_00Sorry to put you on the spot. I just thought it was really funny. I mean, I know that that is a that's uh I mean your Hebrew is way better than mine, I'm just saying anyway, so it does.
SPEAKER_03I really I really can't see. I really can't see it. Um so so yeah.
SPEAKER_00But uh Do you want glasses?
SPEAKER_03I d I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no.
unknownThat's okay.
SPEAKER_03But yeah. Yes. Wow, this is uh this is gorgeous. Yeah, this is very cool. It's making me want to go back and brush up. Yeah. Yeah, that brings back memories. That brings back memories, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's got yeah, it's cool. But okay, so so you you then go and work as a priest.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I do. And um so yeah, started in in South London and uh got sent straight in when my my supervisor uh asked me what my speciality was. And I said uh I said new projects is my speciality. So he's like, well, it's new communities, and like yeah. So okay, we're starting something in the in the district on the road, so that's gonna be your job. You go down there, um, you're in charge, just uh make it happen.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_03And um and and it was in line with my training, because that's what I've been trained to do, like to to you know, set up these communities that have impact locally. Uh so so yeah, I got to work, I started knocking doors and saying, Yeah, hey, we're we're we're gonna start a community church in this area, what do you think? And we knocked on hundreds of doors, and I had like the whole team doing it and doing a survey, trying to find out community needs, um and we we found out that there was a need for community spirit. We found out that there was a need for youth activities, activities for uh for single mothers, uh for some kind of health initiatives, and uh yeah, we got to work. So before we even started doing like church services, that we we had uh you know all these programs running in the week. So I I went to this local community centre and I found out that there wasn't there was some stuff happening there, but they weren't using it all week. So I made uh a deal with the the heads of that community centre that we could use that. place for services and local community projects. So we had a youth club on I think it was on a Sunday. And we had a mother and baby group on a Wednesday morning. We had uh you know the keep fit class on Monday night. Um and we had like some and then we had like these study groups where people could like create where we could create community with local people in the community. And um you know looking at looking at some biblical texts and thinking about how could this be practically applicable, how could this make people's lives better um and give them an anchor of some kind right and it was it was really cool. I mean we went we met so many um so many great kids in that in that local community that uh yeah and and a lot of them you know the the kids that were at that place they're just doing so well now I'm so proud of them they're all like they're they're like doctors and lawyers and and uh you know that community is still there today so yeah so it was it was I I did what I wanted to do um on a on a social level and on a spiritual level so that was really yeah that was that was really cool.
SPEAKER_01Very fulfilling and rewarding.
SPEAKER_03Very fulfilling and rewarding because you're with people in some very uh milestone moments in their life right you know I just had a kid you know then there's like a a baby blessing I I'm getting married so then I I do the wedding right yeah um then this person just died I'd do the funeral yeah um you know um I just bought a new house can you come and see it you know um and and and say some prayers for me there and and uh you know from from that as well to you know someone who's addicted to drugs in the in the housing estate over from the road where we are and wants help and and uh we we were able to provide that kind of support you know um yeah and just create community people that are you know loneliness uh was was solved and and we did trips away to different countries and really yeah wow we were like you know I mean we uh we did like I remember one time we did this like the the big community treasure hunt where we had like a treasure hunt over the whole of the area where um you know everyone was in teams and then we we'd place little things in different places and then everyone came to the to the to the um to the church for a service and we gave out the I think at the time the prize was like a an iPod for the it was like four because there was four in the team and another four person iPod and uh I remember some of those little kids you know from the local community um they they've met some other kids along the way who had not gotten as many posts and had not done as many uh uh because you had to get like a certain number of tickets to be able to whoever had the most tickets would win right and they saw that they had so many and that's the other kids didn't have any and they started saying you can have some of ours I was like you not realize you might not win it were just like ah this is this is uh this is just gorgeous so there's just so much humanity in that type of a of a project um yeah and I think where where does then in terms of creating community and being a priest like that and then spirituality in the relationship to God where the what is what are the the ties and the threads that kind of run through that because obviously I think a lot of people they think that oh if you're part of a community like that then everything is about God and it's very Jesus Jesus Jesus for example but then it also really doesn't have to be yeah I think it's like you know because because some 'cause it that it's it's very obviously it's it's everything goes back to you know the like the the head of the the head of the snake I was about to say.
SPEAKER_00Not a snake well we're just gonna talk about Genesis. So let's just snake it's a snakey is yeah we're not in the sh snake year anymore but there's definitely like we've shedded that but there's still like some snake theme hanging on lingering. But um but no it's I think that um it obviously depends on you know the person the priest who's running it how much they how much preaching and how much um of like you know God and stuff they insert into every single activity. Sure. Because that can also be dialed up and down depending on the focus you want to give it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I think I think that there's there's two models right there's a model where your spirituality separates you from reality and you you think about another world and that's your focus so the material world doesn't become of consequence to you because everything is about heaven or whatever you know you want to call paradise right that's the goal then you've got um religion that really focuses on trying to live out the principles of a heaven in the here and now so you know compassion courage uh you know hope joy and those types of things that they try to you know patience they try to put that into the lived experience of individuals and your and your life so that becomes your your um your your your practice or your the way of um bringing that spirituality which is something that's invisible and um impossible to completely capture into the here and now right so I think that any any religious um expression uh sort of travels from one end or the other of that scale of everything's about the next world or everything's about this world and I think in the middle is something that is beautiful because then you've got people who say okay I have I have belief in something that is beyond me. This is not all that we are there is something transcendent there are some things I can't explain and I would like to connect with those and then there is the the um the sense in which your your connection to that can also be something very internal and just about okay um like you said Jesus Jesus Jesus and then you then then doesn't really make you a better person. Doesn't really you know I mean it doesn't doesn't doesn't people don't know like people can't feel the love no like because it it then it becomes about um controlling what other people do and trying to impose um in the worst case it's like in a legal way you know your own your own religious beliefs and spirituality on others um or it can be like you're you're more sort of uh interested in the welfare of others and letting people have their own choice and saying you know if if God gives people free choice then I should do it too and if I want people to be free and if I want to be free rather than I should allow people to be free to believe whatever they want and live how they want to live instead of trying to impose that on them. So it's like the you know that in the middle is where we have projects like I feel like what we did where there's a strong spirituality there is a a clear uh a clear guidance and and sort of set of teachings a person that we're following um but it's not you know in in in the person and teachings of Jesus right but it's not something that should outstrip your care for uh people uh in terms of trying to pr introduce a policy or trying to get people to follow certain rules when you can see that this is not helping that person. Right? Yeah yeah so so so I don't know if I explained it properly I think that you know for for me it was always about like it's about love as the guiding principle like so love is the love is the religion love is the is the goal it's the beginning the middle and the end and it's about trying to create a community where you can show as much love as possible for as many people as possible over as long a period of time as possible and you to also be that embodiment of that love instead of it being something that you know it's a set of teachings and we we you know we we follow them whether they're good for people or not we follow them whether people believe them or not whether they understand them or not that that never made sense to me and that was never the way that I saw Jesus I always saw him as like um in in terms of my um theological understanding it was always that he uh was very much about helping people to have a real connection to this stuff instead of it being well you you you have to do that because that's what looks right and what the respectability demands but it's actually killing this person. Like you know I mean I don't he he never did that he was always just like no I'm not I'm not really worried about those types of silly rules that you've got that are just traditions that are man-made that are not actually anything to do with any higher power it's just that you don't like that idea or you don't like that person or you believe that this particular way of doing things is is the right one so so yeah so so that was you know a challenge but but it's always it's always a it's always a discussion it's always a it's always a collaboration with people on that right because we we come to different places in terms of understanding we had people coming there that didn't believe in God as such but that was okay. Yeah because it's like okay you do do do they have to do they have to have signed some kind of contract and terms and conditions of I believe this this and this to be a part of this for us to think that we want to come close to them I always felt like you know the fact that we're all here and we didn't choose to be here also speaks of an idea of of of a God of love because none of us deserved being here or were asked if we as far as we know were asked if we wanted to come here but we're here right and um I was like okay you should give everyone else that same choice that you got at birth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah that's a beautiful way of looking at it. That's a really beautiful beautiful beautiful way of looking at it. So thanks I'm glad you think so yeah and I I I mean we have these conversations all the time because we do because obviously I'm also very spiritual and I've had my own relationship with like faith and religion and and searching and asking those questions especially since confronting death and um and grief and these very heavy emotions um and also just being an insatiable curious person who just you know it's also like what is a soul can we quantify it really like I'm with you. What's the structure with the ego and like you know anyway so um so so so I love getting into these uh topics with you but I also know that you you have uh as we say in Danish a balkent um you gotta run to a meeting yeah at some point so but uh so I'm just I'm just we're definitely gonna do a part two because I feel like we only got to like half of your half of your many lives I know oh my gosh we don't we haven't even we're still in the UK we haven't even gotten to how we ended up in Copenhagen yeah exactly that's still a mystery yeah it's a mystery to be continued but it's good it's important to have good stuff to look forward to yeah so I feel like I will leave my audience with this incredible teasing cliffhanger of um of part two to come. Let's do it but um but just to round off before I send you off we're gonna do the questionnaire because I do that with all the guests. So we're just gonna do them super rapid fire so you're not late for your meeting.
SPEAKER_03Alright let's do it so we're gonna do what's your favourite curse word ooh my favourite curse word is probably a bit boring uh I love asking we've just spoken about like God being a priest and then I'm like what's your favourite I suppose my my my favourite password comes from my uh my great grandfather who often would say Jesus wept what so it's a it's a quote but it's a yeah what okay wept Jesus wept so Jesus cried is what it what it literally means and it's from the story of Lazarus when his friend Lazarus dies and there's a part in the Bible where it says that there's a it's a it says Jesus wept so I just like it as well because it just serves a lot of humanity right especially when you talk about you know the the modern man or people thinking like oh you know you men don't cry or whatever and then you've got like the the saviour of the world who's who uh see someone die and cries so yeah I just thought it was very humanity affirming that's beautiful but why is it a curse word? I don't know my gr my great grandfather just used it as a like if if there was uh if there was someone because I I was lucky enough to meet him and then all my great grandparents actually wow and yeah and um and I was like about five at the time and he said it and then um my grandmother explained to me that that's what he always used to say when she was a kid if one of her brothers or her was behaving in a in a way that he didn't like then he'd be like that was him showing his frustration like Jesus wept yeah that's a lot of yeah that's and my mum's got a variation she's Jamaican so my mum's got a variation she said Jesus father okay yeah Jesus father so yeah there you go yeah in the Jamaican in the Jamaican parlance yes yeah yeah wow okay what sound or noise do you love sound or noise ooh I love the sound of rain yeah and I suppose maybe that's a bit of a cliche everyone maybe everyone likes it like the sound of rain on a rooftop I just yeah it just gives me gives me the feels okay what sound or noise do you hate ooh uh again I'd probably go with a cliche of uh chalkboard or like one of those one of those magic markers that's gonna when they start well not even not even just on a white wall like on a piece of paper if something like that just makes my skin crawl but I suppose that that I'm not unique in that I suppose that's for everyone one other person has said the the nails on chalkboard thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah nobody's had the the the just the magic marker on like a marker you know like I'm just like can you stop or I'm gonna explode okay when you're running out from a burning building what and it's like so it's your home when you're running out your home is burning you're running out what physical object do you save and you can only save one. So don't think about like kids, wife dog like none of that just a physical object which object do you save um I don't know in in my mind now it's coming up my my computer.
SPEAKER_03Okay yeah just my my Mac like but I suppose that doesn't really make make sense because it's backed up but uh yeah maybe maybe uh maybe my um I don't know I don't know I I just got so many things in there that are precious to me I'd be like just leave it just because there's no way you can take them all um maybe my my uh John Stewart uh Green Lantern figure.
SPEAKER_00Oh I I really like that okay okay and then what turns you on?
SPEAKER_03Oh um intellect um yeah intellect and and uh you know uh someone I suppose like i yeah intellect but also sort of a little bit of uh you know lion intellect like sort of quite you know quite forceful uh strong opinions or yeah strong just strong personality yeah yeah cool what turned you off oh uh probably the reverse right logically speaking that's it was just like that I'm like oh yeah uh yeah and we're just recording a podcast so can you come back in five minutes thank you um that was so ham for everybody who needed to know again it's a community it's a community is good dropping off the car keys um yeah and um what's your favorite compliment to receive oh I like it when someone says I'm kind because I've always tried to be very kind um I did a gig the other day and then someone came up and goes you you got very kind eyes I was like that's a very wow how did you know but that's just the type of compliment because everyone else is coming like oh that was a great song or you sing really well or you know oh wow you know but this person was like you've got very kind eyes.
SPEAKER_00I was like thanks wow and what profession other than your own would you like to attempt? Ooh I've got so many Ingrid I know I know and you've already taked off so many of like you're probably one of the people which is why I wanted you on because you know you're so incredibly bold in terms of just like pivoting and changing your careers and just like whenever there's a new interest you just go for it or whenever there's there's like a calling to create a more powerful change you just take it and you run with it and I think that's very fearless and I think or brave and and I think we need more of that in the world.
SPEAKER_03So we we need a part two with all these many lives so so although you already I've got two that I'm thinking about okay okay tell me I'm so one of them is uh actor yeah yeah I'd love to I'd love to do some acting I could totally see that right I'm I'm not like yeah so and then the other one is author. Oh yeah but that would be me doing like sci fi fantasy type of uh novels.
SPEAKER_00Would you want to do a comic book?
SPEAKER_03Uh since you're such a fan of that I have actually I have actually recently done one uh that should be connected to a song that I've I've uh I've written so yeah and it's not it's not it's in very early stages like just speaking to the to the artist and stuff and looking at yeah I mean the story's there but um it's just a short story anyway. But yeah okay what is the most irrational fear that you have or that you used to have oh okay irrational fears um I suppose irrational fears irrational I mean I don't know it it's it's difficult to say if you if you feel like they're irrational like to to to know that it's irrational that kind of stops it maybe from being a fear maybe well that that's kind of so it takes a lot of self-awareness right it's kind of the purpose of the of the question yeah of the purpose it's just and also like a little bit to kind of because I think sometimes we like everybody has these irrational fears you know that that might just feel a little bit silly to say out loud and so it's again it's just to kind of sprinkle some humanity in there to kind of show that it's like you know all right I've got one that that I will end up even though I've successfully changed career so many times and I've never um not been able to to make heads meet or or survive right that is probably my my irrational fear then that yeah well I won't I won't be able like I'll end up destitute or really homeless and destitute yeah that's probably my rational that's probably my rational fear. Wow well well I mean which which makes which is crazy in terms you think that someone who has that has an irrational fear would seek stability and always doing the same thing yes I secure a job I'm just gonna stay here for the rest of my life until they give me the gold watch if they still do that. But that's uh I mean yeah well okay and then uh what's the biggest misconception that people have about you ooh uh I I don't know recently I'm thinking that maybe it I thought it was a misconception but maybe it's not and and that is that I am I usually think about myself as completely open and you know an open book and I'm easy to read and and I don't know that I actually am I think I'm quite a mystery and confusing to to many people um just in terms of me thinking all right yeah I'm just really open and you know I'm easy to understand I don't I don't think I actually am any I don't think I actually am so I think maybe misconception about me uh probably one of the biggest misconceptions about me is probably people think I want to be famous. A few people have said that to me like yeah but you want to be famous though, right? And and even when I'm like doing music stuff and they they you know if I'm doing a gig and like oh there's not a lot of people there or something right And they're like, then they feel sorry for me. And I'm like, uh why? Is it because because I'm doing what I'm doing music? Like I'm doing, I'm also like I'm I'm getting paid for this. I'm doing like I'm doing music like professionally and I'm I'm I'm exercising my creativity. That's my goal. My goal is not to be famous, like I mean, but I suppose maybe they think maybe, oh, do you do you have you got the amount of success you want with this? Which which I also find weird because if if someone says, Oh, I'm I'm gonna go and play football at the weekend, or if they say I'm gonna play basketball, people don't say to them, Oh, when are you gonna go into the NBA or when are you going to Premier League? They just realize that this person is doing this because it's good for them, they enjoy it, they love it, and and that's enough. That is the goal with the music. So so again, um I think that's probably a uh common misconception that people think is he disappointed with his uh with his level of success or without people not knowing him or whatever. Um and then I'm also like, well, what what do you mean by famous? Like how how how famous are we talking about here? Yeah, like so yeah, I think that's a common misc misconception that people think I want to be famous, and I'm like, I'm not I'm not in this to be known by more people. I I'm I'm in this to make um music that impacts people in a positive way and gives them hope. If somebody was gonna give up, that they feel like, okay, I'm not gonna give up because that that actually kept me going. That's my mission, right? That's what I'm supposed to do, not uh be famous. If if fame were to serve that end that I could reach more people with a message, then so be it, but it's not the other way around.
SPEAKER_00No, and then the last question. Very very excited to pose this question to a priest. Okay. So would you like to hear God or whoever you're being there when you arrive? What would you like them to say to you?
SPEAKER_03I love you That's it, and I and I and I have to say that I've had I've had experiences where I feel like I've looked down on myself from the third person and you know some people might call it an out-of-body experience or a dream or whatever, where I've I've I've been like in that position and I was filled with so much love and grid. It was it was like and it was like that type of love where it's like nothing's a problem, everything's gonna be fine, you're okay. And I could see myself in the bed sleeping, and I was looking at myself from like the the god's eye view, where it was just like, I love you, I love you so much, and like yeah, so I kind of feel like for me that's the fabric of the universe, like yeah. Um you know, we we you know, I don't I don't necessarily believe that you know heaven is like a a place that exists in the way that it's described, like um that that is human metaphor to try and describe something that's beyond, right? Because they're using like you know, table chair stuff that's from the physical realm to explain something that is beyond that, right? But um certainly um love exists. So that's what I want to hear. A confirmation. But I feel like I've already heard it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well um, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. This has been fantastic.
SPEAKER_00I can't wait for part two. Yeah we've gotta we gotta Oh my gosh, I can't wait. There's so much to get into. Yeah. I really appreciate you taking the time.
SPEAKER_03Of course. Anytime, anytime anytime, and thanks for uh thanks for having me and your fantastic uh magical, magical environment. It's so you, it's like the Sony extension of you. It's it's so you, it's like screaming. It is, it is, it is that and that that's that's great because not everyone has the ability to do that to create a space that actually is the extension of their uh their uh their aura.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, creepy energy. Anyway, thank you so much. Okay, um you you you've gotta get clear.
SPEAKER_03I do, I do.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Bobby. I'm so excited. We're definitely gonna do a part two, and I'm sorry that I sprung the whole like reading Hebrew in the middle of I just got excited, honestly. And I mean, your reading Hebrew is way better than mine anyway, so I'm not one to talk, but uh but maybe I should have also bought your glasses once I brought the book over. And also I will say the book is like it's a pocket-sized like Torah that my granddad had, so it's like it's super, super small. It's like meant to be, you know, fit inside your jacket pocket. It's like it's it's like the same size as like a deck of cards, playing cards. So I think you did great. And um, yeah, without glasses, I think you were also very fucked in that situation. I apologize, that was bad hosting on my end, not not thinking things through. But yeah, these things aren't very planned, as you could also hear. Suddenly my neighbor comes in with the car keys. He's also really cool, so ham. Yeah, he's um yoga instructor, miss massage therapist, makes his own essential oils. Yeah, we might do an oil workshop with him or something for an episode. He has he knows so much about smells. Anyway, stay on track. Um, so yeah, we're definitely gonna do a part two. And um, I really enjoyed this. And thank you so much for listening. And thank you for being part of this little universe that I'm creating um with all these magnificent people that are doing interesting stuff and giving you glimpses behind the scenes into what else is out there. So, yeah. Have a good week. It's done now. Thanks for listening. Thanks to Gio for playing my piano so beautifully while I made us dinner. He's awesome. Go check out his jazz band, Office Park, and the Duo Cosmo Club. Artwork used for the logo is by artist Peter West. The painting is called Lemon and currently hangs in my living room. This would not have been possible without Simon for his emotional support, his world class opinions, and overall art directionslash vibes. My name is Ingrid Pascal. This is the Private Culture Podcast produced by North Node. And um, until next time. Bye.