Say More About Acts 28:1-16

This week we discuss questions centered around the teaching at Fullerton Free Church on March 8th, 2026 in Acts 28:1-16

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:23

I don't know if you guys noticed this, but I hacked into the mainframe and I increased the DBs on the Seymour song by like, you know, I don't know, seven DBs or something.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Just make it a little bit louder.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

It was yeah, because it was a little too quiet before.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

I agree. And I did notice, and thank you for doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I I just I know how to do technical things.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Now we can say more just a little bit loudlier. Loudlier.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Say more and louder. Hi everybody. Welcome to the Say More podcast from Fullerton Free. My name is Darren, and I'm one of the hosts of the podcast this week, and I'm here with Katie Smiley.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

And I'm also here with Kyle Kirschner. Hello. Didn't screw up anybody's last name this week. So that's progress from last week when I called Kellen the wrong the wrong last name. Yes. Cool. The smiliest.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Aw. Look at that. Um just a smile.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

It was yeah, it was like a big, it was like a yeah. You can't see, but I nearly she nearly smiled. This is a podcast uh for the week of March 8th, following the Sunday of March 8th. So the Seymour podcast is a weekly podcast from Fullerton Free Church where we discuss the Sunday morning teaching uh from the previous Sunday and uh respond to questions or comments from folks. Those comments and questions can always be sent to podcast at Fullertonfree.com. And uh one of the comments actually this week that came in was they were having a hard time finding that email address on the website. So we fixed that and it's available and accessible and all that. Um but so this is for uh a response to the teaching from March 8th, and that was uh the text was Acts 28, 1 through 16. So if you're listening to the podcast and you haven't heard that teaching, or you haven't read that text, you could press pause and go back and do it. Then go listen. Or if you're driving, you could just you could just press pause on your thing and then ask Siri. Actually, I'll do it for you. Hey Siri, give me a summary of Acts 28, 1 through 16.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Can she do that?

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Now just listen to what she says.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

I've never tried it. Have you tried this? Does Siri No, I don't know if Siri would do it or not.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

I was just waiting for one of your phones to light up and start.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

We'll test it out afterwards. But anyway, uh I'll let me give you a brief summary. It won't be as good as the one Siri could do, but it might be more accurate.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

I mean, second place to Siri is pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah, it is. Yeah, especially considering how many uh virtual assistants there are out there. Right. So if I'm just you know, like I'm assuming if I'm second to Siri, I'm over Alexa.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Take that, Alexa. In your face, Alexa.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so in this text, uh Paul is still under Roman arrest. His ship was shipwrecked in the previous chapter at the end 27. They find themselves on the island of Malta. And in these 16 verses, basically, what you've got is quite a bit of movement. So they get on the island of Malta, the people there are hospitable and give them, they build them a fire. Paul is trying to serve and gathers up some sticks, but when he does that, he gets uh a viper attached to his hand. It doesn't say he gets snake bit, it just says a viper attaches to his hand, whatever that means. The people assume, like, oh, this guy got out of the shipwreck, but then immediately got bit by a poisonous snake, like he's definitely a villain, he's a murderer, and so they're now they're just waiting for him to swell up and die because they think he's an evil. When he doesn't, he just shakes the snake off, it goes in the fire, he doesn't puff up, he doesn't drop dead. Then they change their opinion of him and they go, like, wow, this guy's not a murderer because he survived a you know, a shipwreck and a snake bite. He must be a god instead. And the text doesn't really tell us how he responds to either of those perceptions. But what does happen is then he's invited into the local governor's home. He finds out that some of the local governor's family is sick, he prays and heals uh the local governor's father, and then a bunch of other people from the town who are also sick come to be healed and he heals them. Then that group of people from Malta. Sorry, I had a little bit too much coffee, and now I've got like a kind of a non-podcasty throat. I'll try to work that out off away from the mic. Anyway, the people from Malta um generously provide for him and his ship as they leave, and then well, they get on another ship, it's not his ship because his ship is it already crashed, and it wasn't his in the first place, but they get on another boat, the Maltese people provide for them generously, and then Did you say the Maltese falcon? The Maltese milkball. Um thank you for laughing. Sorry, the Maltese peoples with their falcons and their vipers and their candies. Um they provide uh all the whoppers he could eat, and they put them on the ship, and then he goes and he moves to a couple of different places where he meets up with different groups of believers in in a couple of these spots, a group of three here, seven there, or whatever, and then finally makes his way to Rome. The the teaching basically focused on the fact that like in each of these scenarios, there are a lot of different variables. Like Paul can't control what the people on Malta think of him, they've got their own frameworks and their own perspectives. He can't control um, you know, like the way people are gonna respond. But also when he when he's got an open door and an opportunity, he he comes in with the spirit of Christ and heals people and cares for people, but is also willing to receive generosity from people who don't necessarily see things the same way he does and whatever. So there's just like a lot of my my focus in teaching it on Sunday was to say there are always in your life gonna be things you can't control. There are gonna be uh exciting, miraculous seasons, and there's gonna be slow, like plotting seasons in your life. And in any of those, you can't really can there's a lot of things you can't control, but what you can control is how you shine your light. And the way you put Jesus on display, that's the thing you've got control over. The way people perceive it is somebody else's business. But what you can be actively doing is putting Jesus on display in whatever circumstance you find yourself. So that was that was the message from last week.

unknown 6:33

Yeah, thanks.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

It was great. Sound like a decent summary. Yeah, I thought that was good. And I was I was there on, I don't want to brag, but I went to church on Sunday and it was good. I thought it was really, really well done. I enjoyed the message. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

You know, I gotta get a paycheck. I was gonna say, was that is that uh your is that your day off? And you opted to come in.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Yeah, that's a you know, or were you on the clock?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

I don't know if yes on my. Let's talk later about your days off.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Whether or not you choose to come in on Sundays.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

I wonder how many people were at church on Sunday were paid to be there. That would be an interesting question to kind of look into.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

I was anybody that came to church because you know Sunday was daylight savings or whatever, anyone that arrived relatively close to on time that had the small child or uh, you know, anything, I was like clapping and cheering for them at the wall. You made it. I was very proud of them.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Let me ask you this, Kyle. On the days you don't come to church because you don't feel great, do you take a sick day? Um did you approve? I haven't seen any requests, so that's what I'm I think maybe you owe us some sick days for the Sundays you've ditched.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, I should uh see we should talk about some of the questions we received. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

You and I can talk later about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

That's something I think we reserve for like uh uh like a one-to-one. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

That's smart instead of uh in public.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

On air in on the I think that's that's for the say less podcast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So but you might just want to retain an attorney. Just think about getting an attorney before we do that. That'll be fun.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Oh wow.

unknown 8:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

So the last little thing that you said will lead us before the um attorney comment with Kyle, um, will lead us into one of the questions that we received this week because you mentioned that um we're responsible to let our light shine and other people's perceptions is really up to them. So one of the questions we received said, thank you for um mentioning and appreciating they appreciated the reference to Matthew 5.16, which says just that in the same way, let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. Um, and their question is kind of um attached to that verse, that in secular settings there's non-Christians who are just as kind and helpful as I try to be. How do these works that cause how do I do these works that cause others to glorify God rather than um just appreciate that person? Or some volunteer work requires us not to talk about God or religion. How do we work within this restriction? Or finally they say there are times when I'm thanked for helping in some way. How do I redirect this appreciation to God without offending someone? So just some questions for you.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

So like three three different things there. Um the uh the first thing I would say, and I'll I won't just talk and talk and talk here, but the first thing I would say is Are you sure? No, I'm not sure, but I'm gonna try not to just I'm gonna say a couple things and then I'll shush.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

But my first uh thought would be with regard to the first thing he says, where he talks about like, well, there's uh you know, there are other people who are doing kind things. Like, how how can I be confident that people are going to see my good deeds and glorify God? And I think the the question, the the answer I would give is I don't think you have to worry about that. I think in some ways that's God's business. God is the one, you know, the Holy Spirit draws people to the Son. So that's not my job. My job in the whole equation is not to draw people to saving faith of Christ. Like, as I go, I have the opportunity to make disciples. But that that tends to be where people in relationship go, like, I want to follow Jesus the way you do. I can offer to people, like, hey, would you like to follow Jesus the way I do? Or have you ever, do you know who Jesus is? I can I can do all of that, but many times, even as he says in his own thing, sometimes there's no relationship with which to have that conversation. But other times it's uh it's not appropriate. So yeah, you can work in some places. I've done work with AmeriCorps, you know, at Habitat for Humanity or whatever, and they're like, this is kind of a faith-based organization, but when we're on the job, we've got people from all different kinds of faith. So we'd prefer it that you not be proselytizing on the on the job side or whatever. And I totally understand they're trying to create, you know, what they're they're trying to achieve an objective, and so I'm respectful. But I would say that kindness and generosity and love, those things speak about God to people, even without having to do like a four spiritual laws presentation or an evangelism explosion outline or whatever. Like it's possible to trust that God will do that work, sure. And that we don't have to be the ones to articulate. Like it doesn't have to be me that uh does a kind thing and then says, like, you know, the kind thing I just did. Well, let me tell you why I did it. I did it because I'm a Jesus follower, and I want you to be a Jesus follower too. Like, I think there's a place of trust in the Spirit of God where we can go, the kindness itself is what's asked of us. And even in Matthew 5.16, it says, you know, live such godly lives or let your light shine before men so that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. That may sort of implies that they they might not also. Like there's a, and again, without looking at the original language, I don't know how present that may is there, but there is kind of a uh, there's the potential for them to see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. So it's worth living a life of love and generosity and kindness, letting your light shine. But they also might not see, and that's okay too. Like God's working with them. You don't, you don't it wasn't a waste of kindness or a waste of your energy to be kind and generous and loving and gracious to others if they didn't see your good deeds and glorify your father. God is still glorified in it because of your intent. So your intent sets God's glory, whether the other person sees it or distinguishes it or not. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, I think I think that's great because there when we follow the leading of the spirit, there are times when we are to sort of obey our earthly kinds of powers that be, and we are just doing a thing without saying a word. We're just being kind because that's the thing we're doing, and we're not supposed to say things, and that's okay. We're working within those parameters. And then other times we're gonna be somewhere where it's perfectly fine for us to speak up and to give a reason for the hope that exists within us, and it's all right, and we're not gonna offend a person, and the spirit prompts us to do that, and we can say exactly what you said. I'm doing this kind thing because I felt like God led me to do it, and it will open a door for a conversation, and that's great, and it and it works to the good of the person and to your good, and it's a beautiful thing. That's all um also a situation where God can work in it, and each day it might be something different. Um, and you can't make a formula for it, it's just gonna have to be like there are times when you're not supposed to say anything, and that's the will of God. And there are times when you are supposed to say something, and that's the will of God too.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

So and there's like a freedom in it that I didn't know for a long time. Like I really had this pressure on myself that if I didn't like make sure that the person knew that I was being generous because of Jesus, that I had failed God. Um, and there was like for years of my life where I had all this like doubt and mad like anger at me because I didn't point clearly enough. Um and it the freedom to be like their response is not my like I'm not in charge of it and I and I'm not accountable for it. And I'm not like there's a freedom just to be like, I just get to love, and and it almost gave me a freedom when I when I put that pressure on myself to do the wrong thing, which was to check in and check out of Christianity or check in and check out of my relationship with Jesus, where I could be like, okay, like right now I want to show God so I'm gonna be really nice so I can do my God thing now and tell people I'm a Christian, and then when people don't know, then it's fine, you know, but instead I'm like, no, no, I'm just accountable to being the good guy all the time. Like I'm accountable to being someone who loves no matter what, and I'm never accountable for their response to it. And there's like a simplicity that I've really enjoyed from that.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it takes away the it takes away the even accusation from other people to go like, well, you were only being kind because you had an agenda. Um I was at a pastor's conference two weeks ago where there was a guy that got up and spoke for a minute, and he said, In the past, we could count on the fact that our neighbors would be interested in having a conversation about God's divinity. And so you could lead by going, like, did you know Jesus was God and that he rose from the dead and that he's coming again? And do you want to live in heaven with him forever? Because you know, and you could have these like supernatural conversations with people, and there was kind of a baseline recognition about the divinity of Christ, but in the last 70 years, that's gone away. And so now if you try to lead with a conversation about God's divinity, you'll get blank stares from generation Y, Generation Z, you know, millennials, alphas, whatever. That you have to lead with your understanding and uh solidarity with the humanity of Jesus. So it that's the place you start a conversation is with love and kindness and acceptance and inclusion and all of those things then build a pathway for you to ultimately have a conversation down the road about God's divinity, but you can't start there. So, in some ways, when I think about Matthew 5.16 too, I think like basic love and kindness, it will create a path to have supernatural conversation at some point down the road, but that's God's work. And what I can be focused on right now is just demonstrating that I see the beautiful humanity of Christ and the ways in which he cared for the poor and the way he cared for people on the margins and those who'd been outcast. I can put that on display. God is glorified in it, and that will then potentially open up doors for me to have deeper, more meaningful spiritual conversations.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

And it's so tempting to want to do the one big thing that draws the attention, because one big thing is easy. Like we can all do something super sacrificial uh at one time. But if it's a consistent, over and over, you know, self-sacrificing love, if it's continually caring about someone when their story is the same over and over again. If it's whatever, if it's caring for someone who maybe not even knows that you're doing it, like that that is harder and it's better. And uh and that's gonna lead to that long time, uh, hopefully, you know, like uh a better communication about it in the end.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

One little thing I want to add that isn't part of the question he's asking, but I just think it's sort of fascinating, is to remember, too, that even a person who's not a follower of Christ glorifies God, both through their kindness and just through their existence. So um the Bible talks about the fact that the the sky and the mountains and the rocks and the trees cry out and they they speak to the glory of God 24-7. They do that without intention. So obviously that's poetic language, but when we think about what the sky and the trees and the rocks do, their existence speaks to the goodness and the beauty and the creativity of the creator, but they don't have consciousness, they don't have will, they don't, they're not acting. They just by their being, God is glorified. So I think sometimes in the system I grew up in, we had this sense that like Christians were the ones who glorify God and nobody else does. But your coworker or your neighbor or your friend or your cousin or whatever that maybe isn't a follower of Jesus, like they have the potential to glorify God when they put God like attributes on display in their kindness and generosity, or even just to be honest with you, like their circulatory system as a human being glorifies God. It's amazing, right? Yeah, the fact that their hair grows and like all of that is for some people their hair grows. I shouldn't have brought that up. I'm jealous. Where's the thing? Hold on, let me find it. Hold on, let me get to it. It was too slow. No, I'm never on the right page. How about again? All the bald people unite.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Um, okay, so I love that. And that was because I was like raised in a similar kind of brain where if someone was nice and they weren't a Christian, I was like doing gymnastics in my head to be like, well, here's how that was really an evil thing that they were doing. Like when they were giving food to someone who needed food, that was really them.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

It's so interesting too, because I was raised in a different tradition. And we, you know, our basic catechism was kind of like that human dignity was a God-given thing. And so I I've never had to do that backwards gymnastics. And it's helpful to like exist in the world to kind of be able to just go like, that's a beautiful thing that's happening. It feels it, it helps you to be able to enjoy life in a different way, um, and not have to feel so like tied up in knots all the time to just be able to look at like your kids playing baseball with other kids and just be like, aren't they the cutest? Because they're just kids playing baseball instead of having to be like, but are they, you know, saved kids playing baseball or not? You know, it's just true. It's it's an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

The last thing he asked, that I just want to hit it quickly, was like, how do I deflect people's gratitude? You know, so that's you know, and I think I I'd say two things on that, and you guys can feel free to disagree or whatever. But the first thing I would say is all you have to do is check your own heart in it, right? So, like, I think sometimes we feel like when someone goes, even for me, if somebody says, Um, wow, I I liked that message you taught, or I I really appreciate the conversation we just had. Um, I think sometimes I feel like, wow, and now they're glorifying me. And in order for me to make sure God is glorified, I have to say it wasn't me that had this conversation with you, it was the Holy Spirit speaking through me. And I think that um assumes something, number one, about the motivation of the person who's just showing gratitude. I actually have come to the place in my life where I've gotten fine with going, oh, I'm I'm glad it was a blessing, you know, whatever. Because I I recognize that was God, and it's most likely the person that was acknowledging their gratitude was also acknowledging God did something. And even if they didn't, I don't have to splice and dice it. And if I do splice and dice it, it can come off pretty judgy because I'm I'm uh I'm like projecting my guess of what they're glorifying, and that sometimes is not great. So I find it much easier to just if somebody goes like, Thanks for a great message, these days I just go, I'm glad you liked it, you know? Which isn't like, Well, I worked really hard and I'm it's just like I'm glad that God used it or whatever. But it's also not a like, well, don't thank me, thank the Lord, which is a little preachy. Uh, I would also say Say that I have to constantly check my heart, and this is true for all of us, because you can get to a place where the things that God has done, you are internally taking credit for or externally. And so if you if you get to that place, then there is some correction that needs to occur, but that's all internal work. That's you like purging yourself of that pride. But if it's just like somebody's coming up to you and they're saying, like, thank you so much for helping me clean up my backyard, you don't have to be like, that wasn't me. Um if we are the body, you know, why aren't these hands cleaning?

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

I think I think it's fine in those cases to say, like, oh, I'm glad it was a blessing. Yeah. And just like let it go. Because most of the time, especially if you're dealing with um just people from your where you work or your neighborhood or whatever, they're not thinking about it in such deep theological terms. And when you come back with theological like distinctions, it'll make them feel like you it'll you you run the risk of shaming them for a thing that like they don't even sure know what you're frustrated about. So I'm just I kind of turn loose to that.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

I same thing. I I know that that was a really hard thing for me for years because I didn't want to be that person. And so one of my New Year's resolutions that I did one year was to get comfortable just saying thank you instead of saying like, no, no, right, not me, which is so preachy and grandizing myself. Um, I made myself for a year go the opposite direction. And when when someone would be like, hey, thank you for sharing today, that was great, I'd be like, I know it was so good for you to hear that. And like I had to agree with their compliment for a year so that after that year I could still go back to the normalcy of just being like, Oh, thank you. I'm glad that you enjoyed, instead of because I'm kind of glad I didn't talk to you during that. I was miserable for that year, but I'm miserable before that year. And now it made me hopefully look slightly less miserable, which is really all I'm working for. Slightly less miserable.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Someday I want a list of all of your New Year's resolutions.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Because you have some interesting ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

They've made me a different person.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

No argument.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Different.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

All right. We're at uh we're at 24 minutes. Oh, dang.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

But let's do Kyle, yeah. You have one more. So I I um listening to it, the thing that kept kind of bouncing back to me is uh I know that I am tempted, as I think a lot of people are, when you're reading scripture, you're hearing scripture, to think of yourself in like kind of the main character's uh position, like that real, as the the youths would say, real main character energy, like you think that you're the center of it. And so when I originally heard the passage, I was like, oh my gosh, Paul, I'm Paul here. People are starting, are viewing me with like their expectations and their prejudices and their uh you know, frameworks of the life. But then I was like, wait a minute, if I'm not always the center character and I'm just one of the people on Malta, how do I better respond to someone without putting my stuff on them? Like without putting my framework on them, and I just uh as a life thing, because that that that felt like something that I wanted to walk away with from that message. Like, how do I just listen to people for what they're actually saying or what they're actually doing instead of like trying to fit them into my categories? Uh because I want to be that part better.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

So I want to affirm two things. I want to I want to give my thoughts on the answer to your question, but I also want to affirm the value of looking at a text multidimensionally, so like being able to like sometimes we do, we read it and we're like, Well, I'm I'm the people of Israel, instead of being like, I'm the Roman Empire, you know? Or like we have this ability to project like who's the good guy, that's me in the story. Right. But sometimes we're the we're the people who are the oppressors or whatever. And so it's really helpful to look from those different perspectives. So I just want to affirm that and say to anybody who's listening, that's actually a really great Bible study device and and tool in the process. Is don't just think of yourself as Esther or David or Paul or whatever, but look at the other character, the Pharisees that are refusing to sit at the table with Jesus and see yourself in both of those places.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

You mean I'm not always the good guy?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

You you are, but that's but you're an You're an anomaly. Yeah, you're anomalous. You are always the good guy, Katie.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Except when you're making bald jokes, and then you're the mean person.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

God's glorified in your follicle growth, Darren.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

So yeah, I've I'm the sad trombone page is gone. Okay, so from the your question then becomes if I see myself as a Maltese and I'm I recognize that I've got my own biases, my own frameworks, my own prejudices, like I've got my perspective, my worldview, all those things. How do I not be a person who, when I meet someone, goes like that guy's definitely a murderer because he got bit by a snake? Right, which is a little silly, but I it the the essence is still there. And I I think my answers on this would be a couple. The first one is I I don't think you see your biases. And I'm not just talking about you, I'm talking about me. I don't if I could see my blind spots, I would correct them. That's why they're called blind spots. I think the only way, it's kind of like using mirrors on your car. The only way to actually see all the way around your car is to adjust those mirrors. You gotta sit down and like work the levers and move the mirrors all around. In in relationship, I think that's curiosity from uh like asking questions of other people to sit with other people and go, what am I missing here? Or how how did how did this situation hit you? Or what even I mean, I think even understanding like the history of America, my understanding of the history of America changed when I started reading other viewpoints than just the white evangelical viewpoint. And that was really good for me because I realized, like, oh, there are things that I take for granted with regard to the founding of this country or even the existing laws on the books that never would have occurred to me because they just don't affect me as a white middle-aged guy. The moment I start trying to hear other perspectives is the moment that I start then to see my blind spots, understand my biases, my frameworks. And then sometimes I can look and go, well, that that perspective is based on truth, or my perspective is based on a real-time experience and it's it's valid. Other times I can go, like, just because a person gets bit by a snake doesn't mean they're a murderer. Like, why did I think that? Oh, that's what I was trained to think. But now there's a guy on the island who says that's not what that means at all. And I'm gonna listen to him and evaluate what he said and decide if his worldview maybe is better than mine and or or clear or more rooted in truth. Right. So I think we have to constantly be sort of adjusting those mirrors to be able to see all the way around.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Okay, so here's where I think that gets a little harder. Well, okay, no, personally harder. It's easier for me for some reason to do that externally or like in society or kind of look at something educationally and kind of go, like, okay, let me look at different sides of that when I'm reading the news or whatever. I'm I don't know why. I can kind of do that a little bit differently. When it's relational, sometimes it's super hard for me to do that. Like when I'm look thinking about a family dynamic or something like that. How do we do that in the moment when like things are stressful? You know? Like, isn't that hard?

SPEAKER_02 29:29

It's really hard. And I don't you can't get multiple perspectives in the moment. You there's just not possible. So, what I think my my strategy in those moments is just be very aware of my own fallibility, yeah. Like questioning my own presuppositions, and then try to just be as quiet as I can, you know, like try to not because I just I I have a healthy suspicion of my own bias, and I know I'm not I know that I don't know what my blind spots are. So if I'm in a in a a critical situation with a family member or I'm in a difficult conflict kind of conversation, I don't have the ability to consult other people. Yeah. What's nice in a professional relationship, like we've got at church, is like sometimes I'll get into a conversation with somebody that's complicated, and Katie, you're a good example of this. I can come back later to Katie and go, hey, can I replay a conversation with you? Like, what am I missing in this? And Katie can be like, Oh, yeah, they said this, and you didn't you just ignored that, or what like she can kind of help me see it, and vice versa, we'll do that. Totally. But I can't do that in the in the moment, I run the risk of just missing it because I'm only seeing it with my goggles. Totally. So I think the key is go really slow, hold your opinions very loosely, and and like always be aware of the fact that you have a blind spot, and if you knew what it was, you would have fixed it. You don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

I I think it's interesting to think about this text in particular because you see the people swing so drastically from one to the other, right? And I think we to me, like that's I don't see myself as Paul at all. I am those people on the island because I've been watching a thing and I can go from like to, you know, in a matter of moments. And I um I can I can even say shame on me, you know, so fast because I have been swung um or um the you know, I can change my impression of a thing so fast. So I I totally love your question. Um, and I can put myself in those shoes. And I think Darren is right, that slowing down and recognizing that especially in media settings, in the things that we are consuming, sadly, the older I get, the more I am convinced that the intention of most things we consume is to sway us to a particular point of view. It is a narrative that is meant to give me something to consume. And so it is my job to be discerning.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

My job is to be discerning, and it's okay for me not to immediately go, I believe that. My job is actually to go, that's interesting. Right. You know, kind of think about it.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

I've been thinking about uh how they would af after this after this uh moment, after Paul meets them there after the snake bite, like what they think the next day. And uh now that they've had an experience with someone who's not them and who wasn't raised on Malta and who doesn't grow up believing snake bite equals murderer, they now, next time that someone has a snake bite, they have multiple options in their mind of what could that mean. Yeah, that's what experiencing people outside of yourself is, outside of your echo chamber, outside of like people who view the same thing as you, people with different perspectives, different upbringings, different worldview, whatever. That's why that's so important. Because now the next day, uh they might be a murderer, but they also might be something else, which is why they're bit by a snake. And that's a cool thing that they get to walk away with the next day.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Yeah, and don't you think once you've tasted that in your own life, then you get hungry for it? So, like you can build in a real hunger to hear multiple perspectives and to meet people who are exceptions to the rule and to have a conversation with someone who sees the thing completely different than you because of the way it broadens your view. Yeah, and that's actually really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Um, but a lot of times, again, you've only ever thought snake bite equals murder, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

So I mean, that's all I've ever thought.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've all seen there, yeah. Episode of The Incredible Hulk with Lou Ferrigno where he gets bit by the rattlesnake. Do you remember that? I don't remember that. I didn't watch the old Lou Frigno Hulk. It was weird.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

I can remember watching it when I was little. Hi, Grandpa.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Well, we should we should wrap it up. Yeah, we should. It was lovely chatting with you all. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Thank you for not coughing anymore.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

I tried.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

I tried to you did a good job.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

I coughed into my shirt there.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

I saw that. So you're gonna have to watch that later. Time time for us to go. And uh come back next week. We'll we'll be saying more. But goodbye for now.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Sing less.