Say More about Hope!

This week we discuss questions about the teaching at Fullerton Free Church on May 10, 2026 from a sermon titled "Free from Cynicism, Free to Hope"

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hey everybody, welcome to the Same More podcast. Wow. I was thinking maybe I would let that run. I think maybe uh in the next couple of weeks we should let the song run so people can hear that. There's like a verse thing that comes up after, and it's pretty good. It's the big part of the song, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Wait, you didn't know that I let it run in the background for a long, long time a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

And maybe that tips you off to the fact that I did not hear uh that episode. But to be fair, I was very busy in the Strait of Hormuz trying to get things locked down again, and I was successful.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

So in your face, Katie. What if you had to do it?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

It's only a matter of time before you'll have to go back there and see if you can open things up again.

unknown 1:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I yeah, you just you did an excellent job starting it, having it the right volume, all of those things. That is something that I am highly uh unskilled at. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, so there's like a you would think that I'd done it a few times and I would know what it, but every single time I feel like I sit down and I go, This is a new thing I've done. How do you have to do that?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

There's a hash mark right here. So you just put the volume at that. Uh the Seymour podcast is a weekly podcast uh that's produced at Fullerton Free Church in the podcasting closet. And Wow. Well, that's where we are. That is. And uh it is a podcast where we have uh re we respond to questions that have been submitted by congregants um or looky los, uh people outside observers, who knows where these are coming from? Nobody knows. But these questions are submitted in response to the teaching from Sunday. So, for instance, this week uh we're going to be discussing the message from Sunday, May 10th, which was actually taught by our very own Katie Smiley. And I'm also here with Kyle Kirschner. Hey! And I think I said I'm Darren, but maybe I didn't. I'm Darren, so I'm I yes, that's me. So we talk about that, we answer questions, and um and then also we just do a lot of like, I don't know, kind of just sort of owning our faults and flaws, the airing of grievances towards one another. Yeah. Um, so let's see. Katie, maybe a good place to start would be do you want to give us just like a quick rundown of what you taught? Do you remember what you taught on Sunday? Can you just give us like a quick just give us the highlights?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I clearly have a problem misremembering things.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

It's been like three days, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Well, um, the topic was free from cynicism, free to hope. Yes. And um we talked about, we just define cynicism first as kind of a heart sickness or disappointed hope. Things don't work out over time.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

You're referring to yourself in the plural. We.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Um we, as in the whole lot of us, all of us defined it. No, I defined it. But we were there. We were there.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

This is how this podcast goes. I'm literally only listening to find ways to tease. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Oof. I'm paying attention so that I and then So, anywho's, um Wait, what was the definition of cynicism?

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah, sorry, I I distracted us.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Like a disappointed hope, something that well, the definition of a cynic is someone who kind of has over life experiences, um, learned um this pattern of thinking, which is to not um assume the best of people, to kind of look at life as everyone has an angle, there's always some ulterior motive that is not good. Um, and then the cynic kind of has this thought process that is like if I push people away, then I won't get hurt. So I don't really engage in relationships or ideas or uh things like curiosity because I just have no interest in other people's opinions because they're all in it for their own good, kind of a thing. And then um I talked about how the not we, I, um talked about how the resurrection is sort of the anti-Cynicism event because it offers this other way that Jesus faced all the things that make a person a cynic, like you know, hatred and violence and um everybody assuming the worst of him, but came out on the other side alive. And so he shares this living hope with us for an abundant life in the kingdom of God. And we talked about what it looks like to be um hopeful and kind of contrasted some of that stuff. So it's good. Nice, that's a great summary. I just said it was good.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

It was good, it was good, which I will say was first everyone's first comment in their emails was Katie, we appreciated it and liked it. Uh-huh. They like me, guys.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Oh, wait, no, they liked the message. I don't know if they liked us.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

They liked us, you should say.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I appreciated you owning that you were like the staff mom on stage for mothers. But like you kept kind of bringing that you're like, as the mom, I get it. This is cliche, but here I am, mommy on stage right now.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I mean, even when we figured out that part of the schedule, I kind of said, that's a bit on the nose, don't you think?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah, yeah. Well, we had shuffled it up a little bit, so it wasn't like that. It's scheduled from the outset, but it worked out great. And you did a great job. It was nice to have a mom teaching on Mother's Day. That's fine.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Yes. Yeah, it was good. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

So nice work. So, did we uh have any questions about that? Did people write in? Uh, I'm assuming one of their questions was Is Hope actually the like the opposite? Yeah, is that the antithesis of uh and if not, like who comes up with these sermon titles? Like whose idea was this? Those don't seem like opposites. Are they opposites? Just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

According to you, they are.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah, I do it. I write those sermon titles. And actually, I think those are decent opposite titles. I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I found it to be a great contrasting idea.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

We do our best. And by we, I mean me.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Maybe Kyle could go ahead and read one of our questions. Uh oh shoot, I just deleted webs. You just deleted webs. Sorry, I'm fine, everything's fine. I got it back. I got it back. Um thanks, Google Drive.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

I mean, that there were two different questions that would that we received that were very similar. So I just want to kind of lump them together. I think that when we talk about uh cynicism, I think sometimes that and like discernment can sometimes be a little intermixed with each other. And are they like two sides of a coin? Like discernment's good, cynicism's bad. Really, what they were asking is there like a spectrum from cynicism to like hope, where it's like hope is there, and I'm I did my hand high, and then cynicism's here, and I did my hand low. And then in the middle you have like d doubting and skepticism and discernment and trusting, you know, and like it's all is it is it like that, or is it are they opposites? What let's talk more about uh cynicism and hope.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Well, I think the person who's asking the question is kind of trying to pick apart the idea that you can be curious and ask questions, even skeptical of a thing, need more information, be what did you say, Darren, cautious.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah, I think uh to me, discernment and cynicism don't seem the same at all because discernment doesn't have like a negative connotation. There's not a pessimism, there's not a glass half-empty kind of vibe. Discernment is just like, I'm trying to figure out what is true, and that does require curiosity, but you can bring some caution to your curiosity, otherwise, you can be misled easily, you can be taken advantage of by cult leaders or authoritarians or whatever. Like it's easy to sort of be misled if you don't have some kind of discernment. But I think the problem is when discernment becomes driven by negativity or pessimism or a sense of like everyone is uh, you know, everyone and every idea is corrupt and there's there's no we're we're in a hole and we're never getting out of it. I think when you lose hope is when it's not really even discernment anymore. It's kind of like a it's sort of like a prescripted view that doesn't hold up the possibility of something positive, you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah. Even I I ta I I think of the word jaded when you're talking, and there's I gave the example of the Hebrew word of like scoffer, meaning making mouths at. And even if you think of your facial expression when you're just jaded over it, kind of like whatever, about a person or an idea versus just needing to ask more questions, your face, your body, your attitude, your mind are very different. So we're we put cynicism in that camp of like just over it. Whereas discernment requires like hopeful curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Well, and there's a there's a kind of arrogance to cynicism too that isn't true of curiosity or discernment. So the the posture of discerning and curiosity, I think, is one of humility. It's one that says, I don't, I don't know. I don't know the answer. I don't know what's true, I don't know what's gonna happen. I am limited in my knowledge and my power. So I'm gonna ask some questions and I'm gonna listen closely and I'm gonna watch and I'm gonna lean in, I'm gonna look for opportunities to make a difference because I don't know, I don't know what's around the corner. Like it's an it's an ad like real discernment and curiosity carries with it a sense of like I am a learner on a journey and I know some stuff, but I could even be wrong about some of that. We talked about this before. The problem with cynicism is it goes, I know for a fact, like there's there's an arrogance to it. I know for a fact that nothing's gonna get better, that everyone's out to get me, that everyone's a liar, that everyone is X, Y, or Z, and and the certainty of that, like the opposite can happen on the other end. You can have people who have like a like an arrogance about their optimism too, and that's that's also not healthy on the other side. That's kind of like a blind hope. But I think there's a middle way, which is to say, I believe that that there is the redemptive power of Jesus and that things can get better. I don't know how they will. I think, I think even when we think about like things in culture or sometimes things inside organized religion or things politically or whatever, it can be very easy to say, well, I I don't know how we get out of the mess we're in. I don't know how this thing gets fixed, I don't know what the solution is, but I'm excited to try and figure it out. And so I'm gonna listen to experts and I'm gonna pay attention and I'm gonna be discerning. And because I have this sense of hope that God is bigger than the limitations of human beings, and he's certainly bigger than my understanding. So I'm gonna come to a thing with hope as opposed to going, like, I know this is bad and will only be bad and can never get better, which is that's the way I would characterize cynicism is it's like this arrogance that says, I figured it all out and it's bad.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

I like that. I hadn't really put that cynicism and curiosity are maybe opposites, you know, like uh that that are you saying that maybe Darren made the whoever wrote the title the first time, I could have done better. We uh wrote the title originally, and uh whoever did the title, I think they and so I if curiosity and cynicism are really kind of on the opposite ends, that that's helpful because I can feel I can be more curious, right? Like that gives me an opportunity, like, no, no, ask more questions, find out more. Like, there is a path away from some of the inherent cynicism that I know I feel, and it's uh that that's I really like that. That's that's good.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

One thing I would add to that though is I would say I think even a person that doesn't even a person that isn't inspired by Jesus, right? So let's just say like your average human being who doesn't know about Jesus, doesn't understand the way he lived and what he called people to, that person can still be curious, but sometimes that kind of curiosity doesn't have the same kind of hope. It's a curiosity that says, Well, my knowledge is limited, so I'm gonna explore. The difference for a Jesus follower is that we do in Jesus, we have this other way. We have this uh redemptive way, we have this way that cares about those on the margins that uh bring supernatural sacrifice and love and grace and kindness to bear. And so I think for me, it isn't it there's something more beautiful even than curiosity, and it's a curiosity that is able to sit in the pocket of going, Jesus has modeled certain things and looks a certain way, and therefore I'm not just curious about it, I'm curious to see how how this will align with what Jesus taught and said and did. So there's um there's a Christian framework that makes it more hopeful. Does that make sense? Yeah, whereas without the view of Jesus and his way, um, I think you can be curious, but it's like I'm I'm curious about the range of options, but I'm not necessarily uh hopeful because human power is limited, and you know, like I can see the cycles of human history and all of the uh you know, all of the selfishness and all the pride. I was having a conversation yesterday over breakfast with a guy where I was just saying he was asking me, like, why does it feel like Christians are so easily drawn into authoritarianism? And I said, Well, it's not just Christians, it's all religious religious systems are historically easy vehicles for people to grab power and influence. So when you get a bad actor who's wanting to like leverage control over other people, religion's an easy way to do it because you can say to people like, oh no, God told me, or this is what God wants, or this is and people go, Well, I don't want to be on the wrong side of God. Right. And so religious people in general are easily susceptible to authoritarianism if they're not careful. It's that's not just a Christian thing. But I said to him, as long as we have our guard up and we can start to watch where even people, sometimes with good intentions, start to leverage their like religious perception for control, then we can wave a flag. And that that can even happen sometimes with people who will be like, Well, I have found, I have found the the pathway to spiritual enlightenment, and it is walking in the forest, or it is meditation, or it is lighting a candle, or whatever. It's fine. Like uh I told this gentleman this yesterday. I said, let's say, for instance, that you connect with God uh by walking in the forest. I do. This is really applicable. Uh-huh. It's relevant. Um let's say I connect with God by going to rock concerts in LA. I don't do that. So yes, this is great. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

You don't like concert.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

There is something really spectacular. I promise we'll get back to cynicism in a second.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

I don't think we're ever getting it. It's important. It's important.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

It's amazing that God created us in such a way that you connect with him on the trail and I connect with them in the city. And that's perfectly good. And it's actually a beautiful thing about the breadth of who God is and who he created us to be. The problem becomes when I say to you, no, no, no, God can't meet you on the trail. Yeah. He only meets us at the concert. Or when you say to me, you need to stop going to concerts and come out on the trail. That's where it turns from my experience of God into control. And so the way our as long as we have our um our eyes open, our radar up for the places where people's experience turns into a control mechanism, then we can still be hopeful. Here, now I'm circling back. We don't have to be cynical. I don't have to constantly be watching to go like, oh, everybody is trying to grab for power, or everybody is trying to enrich themselves, or everybody is trying to be uh you know, you know, like manipulate religion for their own ends, because not everybody is doing that. But I can be cautious and curious, I can be discerning because sometimes people will even slip into that um without noticing. And there is the ability then to come into a conversation and go, well, I'm hopeful about what can happen when I even am just being discerning enough to say, like, oh, I'm glad you like the trail, I like the concert, and both of these are ways to meet with God. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

So, but there's a hope in the. Oh, it doesn't continue to say it all right. Yeah, sorry. I rambled for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Also, I think it's important for us to think about what it is that we're hoping for and why that matters. Because if your hope is in that this person will do better, that this person will see the error of their ways, if your hope is that um, you know, I was giving stories about my kids that they will get along, you're you are set up to be disappointed and build that cynical callous over your heart. But if you recognize that those circumstantial things are just a part of life, but my hope is actually in the resurrection, it is in who Jesus is, it is in God's presence that he's with me always, then you can be a little bit more, you can set up a little bit of distance between you and all those circumstances because it kind of is like, I actually don't know how this is gonna work out. And not to say, and that's fine, or you know, be super perky about it, but instead to just kind of say, I'm not sure how this is gonna work out, but I do know and have trust that um I'm with a God who loves me and that um there is a place that he this a place in this that he understands and I don't, you know.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Yeah. That confidence feels really like like when you're not looking for my validation only comes from if the thing that I want to happen happens, but instead I'm already validated, I'm already cared for, I'm already seen. That that's I can see where that offers hope, right? In the midst of, oh, unless this goes perfect, everything falls apart. That that I see where cynicism comes from that. I like this, this is a good conversation.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Well, good. No, I insist. Okay. One of the things um I thought about too, which I was wondering is the folks that are more drawn to cynicism would be listening to me and thinking, like, so then is hope just like I have to be happy all the time and not upset when things happen to me. But it's not just blanket optimism, it's a different kind of a thing. It's you know, whereas maybe cynicism is um, I'm using my hand and pointing over to the left. I'm I'm like Kyle.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

And and you guys are really good at gesturing on this audio.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

For the record, I'm sitting perfectly still perky is over here on the right. Like that, it's not that when we say, you know, to hold on to hope, we're not saying like hold on to, you know, like, yay, everything's fine, praise the Lord. It's like what we're saying is hold on to what you said, the confidence that this world isn't and and the happenings in it aren't really my um only sense of purpose.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah. Um I was going to say, oh, I had I had a thought, but I uh it doesn't matter. I lost it. I was I think it was bye-bye thought. Yeah, that happens. I'm 52.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

What?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

I know what I know, it's shocking.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I remember your 50th birthday. That feels like it was five minutes ago.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Thank you. Thanks for saying that. That happened. I wasn't a grandpa then.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Oh, yeah, you are now. That's exciting. Yeah, it's so exciting. Uh I was thinking of um I rewatched the TV show Smallville recently and uh and Jonathan Kent, Clark Kent's father, he says it one time I would rather believe the best about someone and be wrong than believe the worst and be right. What are what are our thoughts on Jonathan Kent's quote?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Say it again.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

I would rather believe the best in someone and be wrong than believe the worst and be right.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Is that an anti-Cynicism quote of his? Or is that just a Yeah, I think so. One of the Duke brothers making a that way, because he was from Dukes of Hazard, he was one of the Duke brothers.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

I mean, that does feel like you're trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it also says, like, there's a piece laced into that that is I don't want to be right. Which is weird. Like there's something that feels like I'd rather sort of live in a fantasy uh and than be correct. So I like I I maybe have a slight aversion to the lack of desire for truth in that, but I'm not gonna argue with some fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Right. I mean Would you rather games where they're like, would you rather have four noses or would you rather have 27 elbows? You know, like wait, I don't want any of that.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah. Oh. Um we did have another question, but it was very similar. Very similar. So I think to hit it, it's like thus Yeah. We'd be saying some of the same stuff. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

And I think they were looking to to try to get some guidance on how to not be naive.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Maybe in relationships more than less like trying to logically work your way through a thing. They are saying, like, how do you not be naive with other people and those kinds of things? And boundaries is kind of a whole other topic, but it is it it does work its way into this conversation because you're thinking about, you know, do I just set myself up to be taken advantage of all the time then if I have like a hopeful attitude in my relationships?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah, we've said this before, so but it's worth it bears repeating. I think we're certainly not suggesting that someone put themselves in a situation to be abused or to be hurt repeatedly. Like if you're in a relationship where where it is very clear the other person is abusive, you you should be setting boundaries and you you absolutely can remove yourself from that circumstance and should. So we're not saying like, oh no, just be optimistic that this abusive person will be nice tomorrow. Um, but I would say too that being able to look at facts and say this person is abusive or this, you know, whatever that that's not the same thing as cynicism either. That's not a exact that's not a negative like perspective, it's a factual perspective. And when we know someone is dangerous or when we know someone is uh hurtful or whatever, it's okay to distance yourself from that.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah, it's very true. It's different than assuming the worst, it's actually just knowing the truth.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah. So I I gave that example of my kids fighting with each other and kind of saying, like, you're so mean, or just you did that on purpose, or whatever. That's not real. Right. That's not a real observation. That's a different kind you're looking at it's a different perception of reality when you say you go to the extreme of cynicism. But to say someone has been abusive to me is a it's a factual statement. And so you have to deal with it in the way that gives you the most amount of hope, which is to like figure that out for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

And the way discernment works too is if you're in a circumstance and you can't tell whether you are understanding the truth or whether you have a negative perception, or like if you're dealing with like your take, or if you're dealing with facts, discernment is the process of like seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but also asking the guidance and wisdom of people around you who can see things sometimes more clearly than you. So getting the opinions of others to say, like, Am I hearing this right? Like, did I am I understanding this correctly? My perception is this person is unkind or this person is grabbing for power, they're selfish or whatever. Like, am I is this correct? And then when when that's confirmed by other people, it's able to shift from a place of like, no, I wasn't being cynical or I wasn't being judgmental. This is actually this is the actuality, and I can make adjustments based on the truth of it. But that isn't just me having a bad attitude or being cynical, it's me being able to uh uh pay attention to the actual truth. Yeah, I think that's true. Yes, so true that. Well, yes, all right. Well, thanks very much to those who uh wrote in their questions. We appreciate it. It was a good convo, and uh thanks to Katie for teaching a great message.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

It was a good convo.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

I I enjoyed our conversation today. Yeah, me too. We gotta I'll say it. I'm I'm optimistic that we'll have more.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

I will say I enjoyed the convo, but no two things were happening that bother me. One of them is the artificial plant in this room. It is really coming for you. It's really grown a lot in the two weeks since I've been here and it keeps like touching my ear in a way I don't like and then also this chair. I'm sitting in like this leather kind of what is this, like a love seat?

SPEAKER_03 25:31

It's like a one and a half person seat.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

It's too small for two people, right? But it's way bigger than one guy needs. So anyway, if it presses up against the wall, it makes like a squeaky sound. I don't know if you can hear that on the mic. Um I can. I can hear it. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. And so I've had to sit very still, and I've been wanting to gesture a lot like you guys, and I feel like I can't because of the squeaky sound.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

We uh we got the these wonderful cloth seats with the little silver buttons all over them.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

They're it's very I don't really think anyone needed to know anything.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Next week I'm gonna pull my uh love seat out from the wall so I can be pointing high and low and left and right. That's right. That's how I'm gonna do it. But for now, goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.