Say More about pointing to Jesus

This week we talk about John chapter 3. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Kyle's just singing along as usual.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

I know all the words.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

I don't want to brag.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Good morning. Although you might not be listening to this in the morning, but it is the morning for us. And we wanted to say good morning, good evening, good afternoon, or good night. And you're listening to the Seymour podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Was that were you quoting uh um what's the movie where he's in the big dome and he um Jim Carrey and um The Truman Show? The Truman Show, yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

I was quoting that, although as it came out of my mouth, I didn't actually know I think you got the order wrong, but I was like, I think this is from a movie, but I didn't know what I was doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

And if I don't see you, good afternoon and good night.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Good evening and good night. I think he says all those.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Anywho. Did you ever see the Truman show?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I did. I saw it a long time ago, but I really liked it. But yeah, I haven't seen it since I was a kid.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Great. Yeah, Morgan is younger than us. While you are younger than me.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

I believe I'm all ages on blast right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

I think I'm the elder statesman in the in the room. Anyway, the Seymour podcast is a weekly podcast from Fullerton Free where we discuss the scriptures and the sermon uh from the Sunday previous and get a chance to process some of that a little bit more with each other in community and then with you. And we love getting your questions. So don't forget, while you're listening to the sermon, if you have questions, email those to podcast at fullertonfree.com. We will get them and we will discuss them on the show. We didn't get any questions this week.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Um, on the show today, we have uh first off, we have Katie Smiley.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Oh, hi. Sorry, I'm Katie Smiley. I haven't done this in a few weeks. That's fine. We were jumping.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

You didn't need to point that out because I was uh bringing us in.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah, every time I introduce things, I she hasn't done this in a few weeks, clearly. I feel like I don't remember what I'm supposed to do. It's a problem. Anyway, and I'm here with uh my two amazing guest no co-hosts, not guests, but I'm a guest.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

I'll admit I'm a guest.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

The other person that's here is Morgan Peterson.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Hey, I just want to say thanks for having me back on. I feel like sometimes when I get on here, I say the first thing that comes to my mind. And you know how it says say more. I'm I'm trying to say a little less to just be a little bit more less less word vomity.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Morgan is our shepherd for high school ministries, so which explains kind of what I just said.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

You gotta share.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Also entering her summer season, which is like, you know, it's pretty busy around high school parts. So anyway, thanks for being here, Morgan. And I'm also here with Kyle Kirshner. Hi. What is your t shepherd of local mission?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

And I I it's crazy because you're my uh senior leadership team member, and so it feels like I shouldn't be sharing what my title is with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

I think it would be nice to tell people what it is you do around TV.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

Like you, for example, would be one of the people who want to hear what the title is. Please, that'd be nice. My title is Shepherd of City Admission. I already knew that.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

It just it's like I didn't know how to introduce a podcast. I also couldn't quite bring up. City admission? City and not admission.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

I'm not with that. Dude, you're not allowed in my city. Actually, Kyle also works for the D.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

If you have yeah, if you have somebody that you do not want in your city, come find Kyle.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

I am a great city admitter.

unknown 4:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Our mess. Our bouncer.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

I am intimidating.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, okay, we're moving on. So our message was from Sunday, June 7th. Uh-huh. And we were in John 3 with um Darren McWaters, and it was his last message with us. What? I know. Thanks, Kyle. Welcome. Oh my gosh. Um, and so it was a it was a special morning for him to be able to talk about some things that were really important to him and have been uh vital to his philosophy of ministry. And he's um obviously not here because he's um not working here anymore. But um it's great for us to be able to talk about this message and try to think about some of the things that apply to us. We didn't get questions, but we do have these community group questions that um go out every week. And if you're in a community group, you will receive these. But if you're not in a community group, well, you should think about getting into one.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

I love how you like edited yourself on the you should do it.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

You were like, I don't want to like put guilt on you. I was gonna say you should think about it. And then, but also if you wanted to receive these questions, you could you could do that by emailing me and I'll put you on our list. So katie.smiley at floorchinfree.com. That's the second email I've wow. Yeah. So Kyle, give us a recap of the scripture from John 3 that like where um Darren was uh landing in in scripture on on Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

So it was just uh if you weren't there and you're just hearing our recap of it, I encourage you to please go listen to it. Uh it was great. And like having known Darren for a long time, it's very clear that this is the message like of his heart. Um because the message was this in John chapter three, we have John the Baptist who has kind of grown in some fame around, you know, Israel. He has been doing his baptism thing down at the river because that's what he does. He wears his camel clothes and his eats his honey locusts and chills there, and that's like his thing is being honey locusts, which is a delicious treat. Um, and he's hanging out doing his thing, and he's got his disciples, and his disciples come to him one day and they're like, Hey, uh John the Baptist, you know how your title is like the Baptist? Um, there are people, there's this guy down the road, Jesus, who you were like, Hey, he's gonna come and he's gonna be like way bigger than what we're doing. He's the Messiah. You know that guy who you were like, we should all look at all the time. You know what he's doing? He's baptizing people himself, and he's stealing our business, and we're not happy about it. And John the Baptist, can you go take care of this issue? And John the Baptist is like, um, don't you remember when I was like, hey, I gotta get smaller, he's bigger, I am not the one, he is the one, so stop it. And I hope everyone goes to him. And John the Baptist spends all his time reflecting that it is not about him from the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

And that's really where Darren went with the week was hey, it's not about you. Um, and he had some like really cool uh, you know, he did some alliteration on that day and he had his uh his four points.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

He mentioned that this passage from John 3 really teaches us um a pattern, and that is dependency on God, um, deflecting attention to Jesus. That's the second D, yes. Deflect. Deflecting. And he gave the example of like how John the Baptist is portrayed in in art over the centuries, and it's generally speaking, his hand is pointing away from himself, um, and that that was reflected in the scriptures, and that John showed us about being dedicated to the joy of someone else. Um, I've heard Darren give this message a few times, and that's something I think about all the time. Our lives as followers of Jesus being dedicated to the joy of others, and then um that last verse about um he must increase and I must decrease, um, that that shows us this pattern of decreasing self-importance, just like you said, Kyle, that our lives as um ambassadors and followers of Jesus should reflect a certain amount of decreasing sense of importance in our own um activities and our own interests, but really an increasing the presence of God and his character in our lives. So there you go.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yeah. I loved it. I loved the uh the the word competition comes up like so much in his message, and how like when we allow competition in like when we allow ourselves to compete with other people, um how like bad that can be. Um and he used that that an or his story that I have also used so many times because we I was a camp person, you know, and so what Darren was talking about, I'm like, I've experienced Morgan when I shared this uh analogy that Darren usually gonna be like, Oh yeah, I remember every moment of this from camp. Um he shared about at camp at the end of the week when the high schoolers would be like doing victory circle. Oh gosh. And the first kid gets up and they're like, Oh, I had a hard day, you know. But like Camp, you guys were here for me. I met Jesus, it was great. And then the next kid's like, Oh, well, I had a hard week. Yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah, and then the third kid's like, you guys can't even imagine. The last millennia in my life has been miserable. And then like the next kid's like, so since I was born underground and have never seen the sun until this week, um, I just really feel like God's really shown up. And it's like this competition to be the most changed at camp, to be the most spiritual, to be whatever. Like we used to call it youth pastor tryouts, like, because it was like, how do you tell a funny story that turns into like a point, you know, in the middle of it? And uh and but like how we let something like competition get in the way of real excitement for each other or real growth, you know, and like in the and I was like, oh my gosh, like I know that so much. I this won't be the first time I've like complained about this in ministry, but like I at one point in my ministry career was at a church where we were super competitive, and it was the hardest thing for me to deal with. Like, I was someone new would come in the door, and it would be like, oh, who can get them for their ministry? And not, oh my gosh, what's the best place for this person to connect?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Where's the place where they can really thrive, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:01

And it was it it like it is so corrosive and gross, and uh and that yeah, that that really hit me kind of in the message on on Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

I even was reading an article the other day that was talking about um well like people and careers in general, but like reading it from specifically like a ministry mindset of it was talking about how a lot of times we and like my generation is definitely more uh prone to do this, but like we cirque we circ seek to serve, seek to serve God um in our jobs, um, careers, whatever. Um, but we a lot of times focus on like, okay, but what what am I most passionate about? And I've been guilty of this in ministry where you know my job is uh clearly like, oh, I'm I'm serving God, but I'm I'm really like, well, but I need to be in a job or a position or at a church or whatever where I have all of my needs met and where I am feeling full passion and full like life and whatever and what I'm doing. And it was this challenge in the article of it was like, well, we should work where there's like the greatest need and where you know we are serving others in the best way possible, not about like us being and it's not that being passionate about what you're doing is wrong, but it just is like I'm constantly convicted in so many ways, but about how much I put myself and my desires and my needs at the center of everything I do, even in my serving God, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Right, it's true. That's an interesting point. It is, you know, we think about how um the idea of I heard someone say recently, like, you're not allowed in church to not like kids. Meaning, like everybody kind of nobody wants to serve in kids' ministry because, well, I don't like kids or kids aren't my thing, or oh, I raised my kids and I'm done. And I was listening to this gal speak and I thought, what a hot take. She's gonna get some emails about that, you know. But it was her point was not so much you're not allowed to not like kids, although that's what she said. She just said, We're a family and there are jobs in this family that nobody really wants to do. But in order for the whole to flourish and to be um running on full steam, we all need to be willing to do some of those jobs. And it's it's kind of that same mentality. So I thought that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

That is interesting. I feel like that as I think through like some of the best growth times in ministry were when there was like a big glaring gap in something, and I'm like, oh, I better learn how to do this now. Yeah. Like I I loved when I became I was like the video guy for the church. I was at because we didn't have one, but I'm like, I just happened to be in my 20s at the time. So they're like, of course he can do it, you know. I gave up my bus license when I left my last church. I remember at my last church a week after I left, is when my license I went into DMV and said I'd like to get the class B taken off of my license.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yes, that's we've had other people that have left their youth ministry positions and stayed in the church and all that, but just been like, nope, nope, nope, nope. So I thought we could talk about some of our community group questions. And um, this is this is along the same lines of the comparison thing that you talked about, Kyle, but I love this question. John's disciples came to him with a complaint rooted in envy, yet John responded with contentment and even joy. Where in your own life do you feel the pressure to compete, compare, or protect your significance? And what would it look like to respond the way John did? That's interesting. That's a good question. Um, I was contemplating how John's um dedication to the joy of someone else, it caused some real problems in his life, including imprisonment and death. And that's not necessarily something we will face, but um talk about commitment.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

So John really didn't keep his head about himself about the water.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Oh my gosh, too soon, Kyle. Too soon.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Kyle's been waiting the whole time to not say that.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

I was like, oh, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Here we are. Here's my opportunity to make a beeheading joke.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

And like looking over you in the chair, you can just see it's like I now have to wear you like when can I say when can I say that?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Compete for airtime right now, but I also am waiting. I'm not even listening to you anymore.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Excited on my gems, and I've been there. Last time I make it, and I'm like, that wasn't even funny.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Kyle's competing to tell the funniest jokes on the pod.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

I indeed, I'm trying, I want to have something on this show. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

That's right. I will say I something that occurred to me in in this um in this way was uh when I had um small children, um I had left like my job here at the church, and um I can remember a lot of conversations with other moms about like kid products and um how our children were behaving or sleeping or whatever that drew me into this like mentality of thinking my family could look a perfect kind of way, and that that would be a reflection of my own significance. And um as life progressed, I'm thankful that the spirit kind of knocked that pretense out of me because it's so much pressure. So that's kind of where my head went to right away was just thinking about um trying to perfect my life the lives of my kids rather than to just let them be. So that, you know, because their my joy ought to be in their flourishing, not my own. And I don't mean that in like a sort of I get I get no time, no say, no nothing. It's more just like, hey, my my uh hang-ups don't need to become their hangups if I really am looking towards them being flourishing.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

So I don't know if you guys have other examples of that in your own life, but yeah, I I mean realistically, this question is very um convicting to me in general, of like I I feel a sense of competition. Well, I have felt a sense of competition in so many areas of my life. I um I honestly in the over the past couple of months, like because I feel like my whole life I was learning how to earn love. And in the last couple of months, I've been learning, unlearning that. And so God has done some like really big things just in me um in that. So I feel like I can look at a little bit more clarity with it, but I still I still definitely do it. But yeah, I think there's like such this pressure. I think, I think the competition aspect, like it's easy for me and I think a lot of people to like when you're like, oh, I'm competing for um, you know, to win. Like it can be this idea of like, um, I don't know. I I beat myself up a lot. Where sorry, I feel like I'm like talking in circles. My mom does this. And the sins of the former generation pass now. Yes, yeah. See, this is what I'm saying. I need to edit. Okay, here's my point. Um, I felt like for a long time pretty bad about myself because I was like, oh, I just care about winning. Like, is that what it is? Yeah. Um like I'm just really selfish, which like, yeah, I'm a selfish person, but the reality is like I'm I care about winning because there's something underneath where I go, what happens if I lose? And like, will I be okay if I lose? And will I still be loved if I lose? And if I'm not good at these things, and if someone is better than me at something. Um and so I felt it in my job, I've felt it with friends, I felt it in sports growing up, I feel it like in all of these aspects of this feeling of like I have to be the best because if I'm not the best, then maybe I won't be loved. And so I think like realizing that that's the root of things helps give myself a little bit more compassion. Yes. And then be able to go, okay, God, like now that I know what the wound is, how can you help me to heal this?

SPEAKER_03 19:57

I know that this might be even though maybe a little different side to it. I was uh um, we do yoga here on Monday nights, and I was at yoga on Monday night, and uh the instructor was she had us do like little I am statements to like uh meditate on through the through the yoga session. Um, like what are these truths that God has shared that you like want to be meditating on? And one of the, and so we were like fill that thing out, and as I sat down to write, like I started like the immediate thing in my head was like, I am enough, you know, like uh, and I don't need to prove myself and I don't need to, and I was like, honestly, I feel like that I've been saying that to myself for so long now that I kind of just believe it. Um, and so then instead, when I was writing, I was like, I am not just enough, I am also like good, and like uh, and I had to like kind of transfer my mind a little bit more to be like, hey, not not only am I loved just because of who I am, because I was created by God to be loved, because I'm a vessel of his uh build and he put his love on me. Like it's it's not only that, but he also like gave to me things, and like and it's okay that I like am excited about them. And and but as you're sharing that, I'm like, yeah, like I if I use those things to try to uh put myself above another person, then like I've forgotten what the very thing that John was trying to point to here is that those things didn't come from you in the first place. Like uh like competition in itself is rooted in a false belief that your skills, your abilities, your whatever are you given um or you owned. Like uh, but if we start with it's not my body, it's not my life, like I am a participant, I am a secondary character in the story, like then those things are just they're they're they're a step away, you know what I mean? Like uh yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So I love that. And it's not um it's not within you to try harder to be even gooder. Right. That's a word. But that God made you. Yeah. You're fearfully and wonderfully made. You have his his spirit in you, and that is enough to face any kinds of circumstances. You don't have to create your own. They're right in front of you. Yeah. That's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

And I'll just add to I think it's easy to not think that you're competitive when you are winning. You know, you're quote winning. Yes. Um, I think I have been, I I figured out what I was good at, and I said, these are the areas I'm gonna compete because I know I may be more likely to win. And so if I'm doing well, it's easy to go, well, like I'm doing really good at this, but like if I wasn't, I would be okay. But then when you stop being good at it, or someone is better than you, that's when you get triggered to go, whoa, I'm way more competitive about this than I ever realized, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

I don't want to get stuck on the question, but I am I feel that so much, what you just said. Like, I remember when I left the last church that I was at, this was in like 2019, and uh, and I was like, I am good. Like, I can go anywhere, I can like do whatever. I, you know, I have this experience, I can like I could go be a contractor again, or I could go into ministry again, like whatever. And then I like spent a couple years uh caretaking for my grandma. And at the end of that, as I was starting to be like, oh, what am I gonna do for a job again? That insecurities just like overwhelmed. I was like, what if I'm completely unhireable? What if I am not good at any of this? What if I just happened to be like a kid who was popular at 25 at Hume Lake? And so now I've had all my ministry success because of that. Like uh, what if none of this is me, but just circumstance, you know? And like uh, what if I am was luckily born as a middle class white dude in America, and like, and so now I can kind of do whatever. And I'm like, oh wait, you know, like but so all those things that like when everything was easy, when I got offers all the time of like, oh hey, would you be interested in coming over here? It's like I don't need that, you know, like the Lord, and uh yeah, and uh but when you're like, oh my god, what if it what if it doesn't work? You know, then yeah, then that it changes so much. Yeah, it does change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

The idea or being on the precipice of failure reveals a lot about um how success fuels your pride or love for others or sense of peace of mind or any of those kinds of feelings. Yeah. Um, let's do the next question. John found his deepest joy not in his own success, but in facilitating someone else's. Who are the people in your life whose flourishing you are called to serve? And what might you need to let go of to do that? Well, yikes. That's a big one. Yeah. I um I have this little thing that I say to my young people in my house as they leave the house. I don't say it as much anymore because it's almost gotten to be we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know, we know. But um, for a lot of years I would just, especially at youth group, just because I had had some bad experiences as a teenager, but I'd say include everyone, you know, just include everyone. And they kind of rolled their eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And honestly, my kids are so good at this. So this story is issues. I can second that her kids are, she has done a very good job at instilling that. It's not me, but it's their behavior. They could still decide not to. But um, it was a lot like many years ago, one of my daughters was at camp and it was a counselor who or a pastor who eventually told me this story, but um their group was huddled up and they were talking, and and one by one, this group of gals, some of them friends with my daughter, some not, kind of started confessing that they just felt ostracized often, or they felt like everyone else had best friends, but they didn't, or they felt like everyone else was hanging out, but they weren't invited. They just were all confessing their lack of community or feeling tethered to a thing. And um the the the gal said, and then your daughter just kind of like started to uh almost like ugly cry in the moment, you know? And they said, What's wrong? What's wrong? And she's like, Well, my mom always says, include everyone. And she's like, and now I'm getting it. Like I'm I'm looking into your eyes and I'm realizing, like, even though you're all 100% included in my heart, you don't feel it. And I can't control that. And so just trying to look around and see who's in the room and who's not tethered to a person. And sometimes that's like not for any bad reason. It's just like someone is like, hey, I'm fine to sit here. I'm introverted, I need a moment, whatever. But there are people in our lives who are more difficult, who require more energy, who require more patience. And we are naturally uh going to ignore them, you know, or avoid and do the bare minimum. Do the bare minimum. And Jesus, well, John the Baptist in this case, uh sort of teaches us that being dedicated to the joy of someone else means sometimes like it could mean suffering for you, it could mean character development for you, it could mean a feeling of wasting your time. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile because those folks like are actually being included in the kingdom of God, and we just need to join in with that reality, you know. We just we our lives will be better and more full of joy and peace if we just live in that reality that Jesus is including everyone in that way, and so we can just live in that. So I don't know. That I overtook the conversation with that story, but it just reminded me of that.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

It was wonderful. In a respectful conversation, only one person is talking at a time anyway. So it was good job, Kyle. Well, where are other options? We've been waiting for you to finish because we didn't want to be rude.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Listen to me.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Oh my god, sorry. Kyle's about to filibuster. I've got so many texts right now.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Um, so good.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

I am going to circle back to the same time period, but when I um moved in with my grandma to caretake for her, um, it was the loneliest time of my life because I had gone from being constantly surrounded by people all the time and like and always like busy and always, you know, someone else, whatever, all this stuff, to I moved in with her, I moved in with uh her and my grandpa in 2019, and then a year later COVID hits, and she has all the reasons to not be around other people during that. And so, like, we were shut down. Yeah, she had you know a growing dementia, and so the conversations were a little less fulfilling than I would hope for, and a lot of like repeats, and a lot of and I was so lonely, and also it was the least lonely that my grandma had been in her life. Um like she had not had like her and my grandpa, you know, were married for 70 years or whatever, but like they had their routine, and and like, and so no one was asking her, tell me more about the house that you grew up in. And no one was like, and so for her, she like thrived during that time, yeah. And uh, and that was so telling to me, and so like important for me to see as like I'm like, I what I am viewing as a goalie, like as a gone down, a valley is like a mountaintop for others in in in like relationship. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have been so privileged, like I have been so blessed, I have been so over, you know, like abundanced, and I'm like, I have to do what I can to make sure that no one else feels that, you know, because I it was it was just that moment, and like in coming out of it, I was like, I I am a person who is great at finding the like ways to end to like care in a way that is very controlled, and uh I can end it really quick. And I'm like, and that is just gross, and I don't want to be it anymore. Like, I remember going to the camp I was at after that, and uh, you know, if any summer staff at a camp, you have you know, 50, 60 college students, college age students, and some of them are great and good hangs, and some of them are a little more awkward, and I was like, and I I'm like, I need to be so intentional that like I'm just there, and like uh and that I don't, you know, yeah, mm-hmm. It was it was so good for me to see. So sorry. I love that. There's my story.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, that kind of made that yeah, that was a beautiful story. It made me a little weepy.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Like, yeah, just the goal. I was competing with not crying and the crying one.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

He was like, let me tell Katie told her story, so now I immediately am back.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah, yes, yeah. Um my long, you know, dark night of the soul. Um, okay, my story is this. I um so um I started doing youth ministry like five years ago. Um, and I feel like throughout my time doing it, I felt like I was I did a really good job of loving students. Um, and I think that I think a lot of people would agree with that. Um it wasn't until I got here and was, I don't know, maybe a year in. I don't remember totally when this dawned on me, but I I had this moment of realizing I am loving the students for my sake, not for theirs. Um I wanted to, I wanted people to think that I was a good youth pastor and I wanted students to like me. Um, and that's a you know, those are fine things to want, but um I realized at one point I walked away from a conversation with a student and I said, I think that the the voice in my head throughout that whole interaction was how can I get you to like me? Not how can I love you well? And it took longer than I would like to admit to actually be able to step in, be in a conversation and switch that line of thinking, because I usually would walk out of it and go, Oh, I did that again, I forgot about that. Um and so what I've been trying to do is whether it's students or anyone in my life, like when I start to feel the anxiety of like performance of like, I need to get you to like me, I need to to be like, okay, stop. How can I love you well? This is not about what you think of me. Like, how can I how can I show up for you regardless of how you will leave, you know, thinking of me? Um and that that has taken a weight off of my shoulders to be able to be like okay, I'm not, I don't need to jump through hoops. I can take down the performance of this, like I'm safe regardless of what they think, like I'm okay. Um but I just realized how much that mindset of trying to get people to like me was causing me to do the bare minimum in loving them. Cause as soon as I did enough to change have them, you know, have a good opinion of me, I was released to leave and you know, do go do it with someone else instead of like doing what Jesus does, which is like going above and beyond and like you know, showing abundance and abundance of love and care, you know. So that has been convicting for me um and has helped me to start loving people more instead of putting myself at the center of everything. But it's very hard.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

No, I I was just gonna affirm that uh process and watching you grow and knowing that that is happening, not because you told me, but just being able to see it in the way you're you're operating, but also how cool is it that the love and mercy of God showed you a thing and then also gave you the ability to see it in real time and to make adjustments and to actually grow and mature and be more complete in that way. Um that is that's that's just the spirit of Jesus like moving in you and and changing the way you operate and show up in this world, you know, which I think is is um it's just incredible. Thank you so much. Yeah, so good. We probably won't have time to do the third question. The same way. I was like, I think we got there. I think we got there. And and just um my closing thoughts are that John the Baptist is pointing to Jesus, but he's presenting this same pattern that Jesus presented, which was um the willingness to uh put sacrifice and service at the center of his love for others. And um and so reflect on that this week. Think about the ways that sacrifice and service may reveal Jesus in his li in in your life. Um and that doesn't mean to wake up tomorrow morning and try so much harder to be so much nicer. It just means, yeah, have ask God to open your eyes and see the ways that your character can be developed in that way. We're doing it, the three of us.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

That's the goals, that's what we want. And it's not the strategy, it's like the aim. You know what I mean? It's like this is what we're aiming for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Okay, and I'm I hesitate to play the goodbye song because it just means Kyle's gonna sing some more, but we're gonna be okay.