8. 🔬 You Can See Your Mouth's Bacterial Ecosystem. Whole-Body Dentistry with Dr. Denning

🔬 See what's living in your patients' mouths and watch your case acceptance change. 🌐 tosh.care

🦷 Ready to reset your oral health in 6 minutes? 

Start here: 🌐  www.mouthymatters.com/start-here

Most dental practices treat the mouth like a mechanical problem. Scale it, plane it, polish it, send the patient home with a floss lecture, and call it a cleaning. Dr. Joseph Denning, DDS, looked at that model after turning 40 and asked himself a question that changed his entire practice. Am I treating my patients the same way my doctor failed me?

In this episode, Tosha sits down with Dr. Denning from Lake Hill Dental Care in Burnt Hills, New York, a dentist who has built a whole-body practice around actually seeing what is living in his patients' mouths, and then managing it like the biological ecosystem it is.

Dr. Denning talks about the moment he saw oral biofilm under a microscope for the first time at a seminar and bought five microscopes for his practice before he even fully understood what he was looking at. He talks about a skeptical team that turned into true believers the moment the first microscope was plugged in. And he breaks down why he stopped having deep cleaning conversations entirely, because the terminology itself was never grounded in the actual biology of the disease.

What comes through in this conversation is a dentist who has fully made the shift. He is not treating surfaces anymore. He is managing an ecology, identifying the invasive species, removing them, and coaching his patients to maintain the balance. And he has a lot to say about why patients feel sold to in dental offices, and what a genuinely patient-centered conversation looks like instead.

Key Takeaways

The reactive medical model fails patients and practitioners alike. Dr. Denning's turning point came when he realized he was practicing the same "your bloodwork is fine" mentality he experienced as a patient, checking a box of well or sick instead of actively optimizing health.

Seeing is believing, for teams and patients. His team was skeptical until the first microscope lit up a screen. His patients were curious and engaged from day one, because co-discovering what was living in their mouth together removed the feeling of being lectured or sold to.

Scaling and root planing is a concept built on the wrong assumption. The problem in a diseased mouth is not a rough surface. It is a disrupted bacterial ecology. Managing that ecology is an entirely different clinical conversation, and a far more honest one.

Patients are smarter than we give them credit for. Dr. Denning has high-level conversations about oral bacteria, systemic inflammation, and whole-body health every single day in his practice, and his patients follow every word.

Hygienists have been overtrained and underutilized. One of the most rewarding parts of shifting to a proactive, whole-body model has been watching his hygiene team step fully into their clinical expertise and become the stars of the practice.

Connect with Dr. Joseph Denning

Lake Hill Dental Care, Burnt Hills, New York
 lakehilldentalcare.com
On IG: 📱 @lakehilldental_

Connect With Tosha:

On IG: 📱 @toshardh  

🔬 See what's living in your patients' mouths and watch your case acceptance change. 🌐 tosh.care

🦷 Ready to reset your oral health in 6 minutes? 

Start here: 🌐  www.mouthymatters.com/start-here

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only.  Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner.  Opinions from guests are their own.  This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Transcript

Welcome And What We Tackle

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Mouthy Matters podcast. I'm so excited for you guys today because you get to meet the wonderful Dr. Joe Denning. He's a fabulous dentist up in Burnt Hills, North New York, which is northwest of Albany. And I have had the opportunity to get to know Dr. Denning over the last couple of years. And I absolutely love what he is doing with his practice when it comes to oral health care. He is just a fantastic leader. Their team is doing some exciting stuff. And we're also going to talk about, I don't know, I'd say it's maybe like a tricky topic that not enough people talk about, which is going to the dentist and feeling like you might be getting sold something. So we're going to get into all kinds of fun stuff. Thank you for being here, Dr. Denny.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

What's an honor Tosh? Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Awesome.

From Reactive Care To Wellness

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Well, before we get into microscopy and protocols and all the wonderful things that you're doing, I want to ask first about how you kind of got into this space of, you know, pr practicing oral health care, getting your patients healthy kind of differently. Like, did you have a patient that just had bleeding gums, didn't seem like they were getting healthy, and you just thought, man, like maybe this traditional model isn't working for me anymore? Was there for a moment that you thought, I want to, I want to do things differently?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

So it's kind, it's kind of a long story. I'm a nerd. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life and I'm and I'm kind of philosophical. And I had a big birthday. So I I recently turned 40, you know, and I started, you know, at that point you start having different priorities. And I started focusing on my own my own health, you know, and how I want the rest of my life to play out, you know, and not just on aesthetics, but on longevity and and you know, feeling, you know, you want we all want to feel good and and live, you know, as high of a quality of life as we can, right? And you know, I love my primary care doctor. I think he's great. But I, you know, I went to him, you know, after that birthday, and I said, hey, you know, is there anything I could be doing, you know, differently? Are there any vitamins I should be taking? You know, is is my my diet? Can we discuss that? And, you know, he kind of just looked at me puzzled and was like, you know, your blood works good, you know, you're you're nothing to worry about. You know, your BMI is good, right? And it was kind of like, you know, and I'm not an alchemy. He's a he's a great guy, but that's like this, to me, that's that represents the standard medical model, right? It's it's deeply reactive, right? We we we we either check in a box of well or check in a box of illness, right? And I think this this area of wellness, of optimization, right? I don't want to not, I don't want to not be sick. I wanna I wanna feel as well as I can feel. And so for me, that was kind of my own kind of journey to trying to find out, you know, what can I do to optimize my own wellness, right? And then I thought, am I treating my patients any different than my doctor was treating me, right? Am I being reactive as well? Right. And and so that was the big eye opener. It's like in a lot of ways, you know, that you come in for your checkup. If it's not, you know, if it's not bleeding or not even that, if it's not painful, you know, is it a problem, right? And and am I doing everything I can to not just, you know, keep my patients' teeth in their mouths, but make them healthy? Right. And so that was kind of why I started looking in in this area, just directly.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I love that. I love that. So when you were like, okay, so now step two, how do I know for sure that my patients are healthy? What what did you start to pursue like personally? Did you just get on the message boards, get on Reddit, get on dental groups and go, hmm, microscopy, hmm, what of our what do our protocols look like? How did that transition?

Discovering Biofilm Through Microscopy

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Where did you start?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

So I'm really, really lucky because I'm surrounded by a really smart, capable advisors and people, right? And to kind of put a sh a plug for Shelly Renee, I mean, she she's a my consultant and she's really she's changed my life in my practice, right? And I've worked with her for years and I trust her. And so there was an oral systemic kind of seminar, you know, run by our by our friend, our mutual friend, Dr. Larkin. And she said, listen, you gotta be there, you know, take some time off. You need CE's anyway, check out what's going on there because I think, you know, it I think it will jive with what you're looking to do, right? And I didn't know anything about microscopes, and I honestly I didn't even know there was gonna be a microscope there, right? Yep. And so I went to the meeting, and on the way to the restroom, they had the microscope set up with a screen, and I saw the biofilm for the first time, and I mean my mind was blown and I was captivated instantly, and I was like, what is going on here? And so that really lit the fire. It was so compelling to me. You know, I'm a dentist and I'm married to a dentist, and all my friends are dentists, you know, and so you there's not a lot of things in dentistry that you know ignite that initial passion you have for the field, right? And get you as excited as like, you know, a young kid, right? But when I saw this, it was just so compelling. Um, that I was like, I I and I went back and without knowing much, bought a microscope for every operator in my practice. I said, you know, this is gonna be this is gonna be the direction we go. Because if it was so compelling to me and this is kind of my world, I knew I knew it would be compelling for my

Team Skepticism And Patient Trust

SPEAKER_01 5:32

patients.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah. So when you guys started taking slides on patients and showing them what was living in their mouth, not what what did your team think of what they saw initially? Were they as shocked as you were from the event just seeing, wow, that stuff is in my patient's mouth? Did they were they surprised by their findings?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So this is like a super hard area, and I'm just gonna answer it truthfully. My team was really uh skeptical, right? And they were afraid that kind of I was sold a scam.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

You know, their doctor went away for a weekend and came back and, you know, all of a sudden said, you know, we're gonna change the way we practice. And they're like, oh boy, what salesman got to him? Like what, you know, what are we in store for? Kind of thing, right? Yeah. He's just so excited about it, right? And they were like, you know, like anything else, change can be hard. And I so they were super skeptical, but like I've got an amazing team. They were skeptical in like a protective way, like, oh my gosh, what did they do to him? You know, poor Dr.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Danning. No, but he bought he bought some snake oil.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Five microscopes, this guy, like is that that kind of thing, right? But I will tell you, when it the first one came and we hooked it up and we put it on screen, it was like they all were equally, if not more excited than I was when we first saw it. And then and then their looks, you know, were less skeptical, right? And so on board right away. Because when you see it, no, it you know, when you see the reality of it, it's it's quite uh striking.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah. I feel like it's so akin to when photography became like the big thing in dentistry, and we just started taking photos of everything and being able to show our patients, and it was like the veil was lifted. We no longer had to use all kinds of dental terms and terminology to try to explain to a patient that had something that didn't hurt, but looked very suspicious to us. And with a restore, like from a restorative standpoint. And for me, once I started using a microscope, I was shocked at what I could see on there in the blink of an eye. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is gonna help explain to my patients the inflammation or the bleeding that I'm seeing so much easier, even though I was terrified to show my patients because I thought, what if they, what if they don't believe me? What if they think that everyone has this bacteria? And there was those kinds of conversations as well. How did your patients adapt to starting to look at a microscope slide? Were they really curious? Did you have anyone that felt like, I don't know, Dr. Denning, I think you're trying to sell me something?

SPEAKER_01 8:10

I mean you never know what's in the mind of others, right? You know, I I hope not, right? I'm super blessed. I mean, I work in like the most amazing community. I have like the most amazing patients, you know, and I've built their trust, you know, over the years. And so I really didn't, I didn't have a lot of bad experiences. I really did. But also I was super earnest about my level of expertise with it, right? Like I didn't um initially anyway, I didn't roll it out like, hey, are I have all the answers. I rolled out like this is something really compelling. We're training the team right now. Would you like to look with me? You know, and then we kind of like co-discovered what was going on.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

And that can be hard as you know, I'm an expert and and I love what I do and and I speak with a lot of expertise on on the things that I know about, right? And so when you're out of your comfort zone and you're expanding the scope of your practice, I think honesty is just the best policy. So, you know, you just you just tell your patient, you know, this is something new that we're all learning about together, right? Would you like would you like and it's not invasive and it's not like you know, you're not we're not learning something, you know, scary together, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

If you take a sample, you know, just you know, as part of the regular exam. So there's really there's no risk to doing it. We just started looking together. And if they had questions about, hey, what do you what do you what is that? And I didn't know, you know, I was thankful to have you as a resource. I was thankful to have, you know, other dentists doing this as a resource. And we'd get back to them and answer their question, right? And so, you know, with that level of honesty and earnestness, it it was really well received, you know. Um, I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think that being able to show somebody any additional information is so valuable because all of us want to make informed decisions on our health, or at least I certainly do. And the more information that I have, the better choice I can make for myself. So if I go into the dentist and and they tell me that I have bleeding, first thing now that I know that I have a microscope, it's like, well, let me look what's in there. And if I see some icky looking creepy crawlies, my next question is going to be, help me get these creepy crawlies

Rethinking Deep Cleaning As Ecology

SPEAKER_00 10:27

out of there. So the difference between a traditional cleaning and a deep cleaning, I think for some people can feel a little bit confusing. You know, you if if a patient's coming to the dentist every six months to get their teeth cleaned, and then all of a sudden they come in and we discover that they have some bleeding in their gum tissues. Maybe they had some bleeding before, but now all of a sudden we're taking a deeper look and we're looking at the microscope slide. We're taking a piece of plaque from their mouth and we see some really unhealthy bacteria. The conversation from like a deep cleaning, which is what we used to kind of call it, I would consider that maybe some older vocabulary, still used commonly, but doesn't really articulate what we want to be doing to get that person healthy. Do you feel like the microscope has has helped those conversations for your team? So if they see inflammation and bleeding in somebody's mouth, that doesn't come in with any pain. They have no idea that they have a problem. But then the team is able to show them a microscope slide with bacteria that's not part of health. Do you think patients are more accepting and understand and realize like, I just came in contact with some bacteria and now my mouth is sick? Do you think that that conversation is easy, is changed in any way?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Um, I'm not sure. You know, I don't know, right? That there's so much, there's so much wrong with what's going on there that it's difficult to answer, right? Like the terminology itself, like if you're calling it a deep cleaning or even what it, you know, the codes are now, scaling and root cleaning. It's such it's such an antiquated, um, ill-conceived um from the like from the initial um how do I want to say it? From the initial conception, it's ill-conceived, right? So like scaling and and and you know I'm talking to a hygienist, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

You're you're great, you're great.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Right. Like, so there's a tooth and it has something called cementum, and and that's the the part, the covering that's on the root, right? So that's a really rough surface, and it needs to be rough biologically, because that's where the fibers that hold your tooth in are hooked on, right? And so with disease process, you can lose gum and bone and expose some of that rough surface, right? And so scaling and root planing was was just that planing roots. So you're taking a sickle, right? Like like metal object, and you're going, you're digging under the gum, and then you're planing the root. You're trying to literally remove the material off the cementum to make it smoother, right? And so, like that, so that's the call.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Sounds so barbaric, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Well, because like it is, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

And it I agree.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Because like, what are we assuming? And let's talk about the assumptions in that treatment, right? The assumptions for that treatment is it's the rough surface that's the culprit, right? And so it's like ignoring the the the etiology of the disease, which is the bacteria that's there, right? Yeah, and so we can make it as smooth as glass. And if you have bad bugs in the mouth, there's gonna be inflammation and disease, right? And so the whole thing is wrong. Yeah. So so for me, it's not even discussing a deep cleaning or scaling and root planing or anything like that. It's about we're gonna manage this, we're gonna manage this ecology in your mouth, right? Yeah, and so it's it's an entirely different discussion. It's a discussion that's based on the actual um, you know, biology and science of the disease. And so it's it's not even as if I'm defending that treatment. We're not doing that, right? We're we're doing something radically different, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And and we talk about the different instruments involved, distribution, different technologies involved, but it's not an individual tool or technique, it's a concept, right? And the concept is managing that mouth, right? Just like I was imagining the mouth as a forest, right? And it had once had a healthy, balanced ecology with all the animals and plants and all the organisms living in harmony, right? And now we have an invasive species, a nasty predator that's in there, right? And it's disrupted the whole, disrupted the whole biology, it changes what's living there, right? It's no longer healthy. We want to go in there and selectively eradicate these invasive organisms, right? And so that's it's just an entirely different conversation, right? And it is. And when you're having it at that high level, and what's really cool, right, about 20, you know, 2026, you know, people were really smart. I don't know if it's all the podcasts like this or AI, or it's just like we were always this smart, but we didn't know it. Like these are super high-level conversations. I have them every day. And it's like we're not losing our patience in this. You know, they're fascinated by it, they follow it, they get it, and then it's like, oh, okay, you know, this is an entirely different approach to what came before it. I don't know if that answered your question.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

No, it does. I totally agree. I mean, when I started showing people the unhealthy bacteria, the conversation completely changed. It changed from a dirty mouth problem, is how I feel like we used to talk about gum disease, gum infections, gingivitis or periodontal disease. We used to talk about how we need to get in those nooks and crannies and really dig around and scrape and all the all the things that sound very painful and like nobody would want. But once we can show them that this is just like any other infection, you came in contact with some unhealthy bacteria, your mouth got sick, your immune system didn't fight it off. I love your analogy of, yeah, there was an invasive species in there. Let's get it out so things can return to balance. It's all the focus of the conversation completely shifts from to me, it's like, well, if somebody's been coming in every six months and they're doing a really good job at home and then all of a sudden they get an infection. The old model was a bit of a lecture for some patients. Like, Dr. Danning, you weren't brushing and flossing well enough. You didn't make that C shape with that floss. You must have been slacking off. Whereas for the most part, that's never true. Like somebody doesn't get streped throat and you go, Well, you know, you really weren't cleaning your throat well enough. We would never think that.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, it makes sense. Like our treatment in the dental field was mechanically focused, and our home care was equally mechanically focused, as if the problem is a mechanical problem when it when it's a biological problem.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah, yeah. So within your practice, when you guys are doing, I like to call it like medicated therapy, a medicated cleaning, something more like that, something that's more using antimicrobials, targeted treatment to really cleanse and lavage the mouth and to get rid of those unhealthy bacteria and then train our patients the same. So do you guys handle that type of cleaning different now using the microscope and some and updated protocols than you did before? What does that look like in your office?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, it's not even the same office. Right. You know, it's it's and what really at the end of the day, all this is nice. And I I'm a nerd, like I said, so I like technology and it's all really cool. But at the end of the day, six months later, your patient's healthy, you know, and they feel better and they're jazzed about it and they notice a difference, not just about how they look, you know, how they you know, how the gum looks, but how they feel. And now they're caring for themselves at a higher level. We've empowered them and given them the tools to be healthier. Who wouldn't want to go to work every day and do that? You know, that's so that so that's that's the best, right? So yeah, it's it's changed the approach, but really it's turned it's turned us into more coaching, uh, you know, and and and like co-partners in their health, then you know, we're doing something to them.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yep. Yep. I love it. I love it.

Avoiding The Feeling Of Being Sold

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Let's switch gears here a little bit and talk about the elephant that's in a lot of dental practices and maybe the elephant that's in a lot of people's mind before they walk into a dental practice. I know I've definitely in my career had some patients that just walk in, even as a new patient, and they feel kind of guarded. They're worried that we're gonna try to sell them something or, you know, they know they need to go to the dentist to get their teeth clean. They, they maybe, you know, took a slight dental sabbatical and they come in and they're afraid of the price tag on the treatment plan, really being able to understand. Do I need this? How do you handle this, the skeptics in your practice? And I mean, for me, I think it's all about communication, but and being able to show versus tell. Have you had any patients ever that just were uncertain and you were able to shine a light for them on why they needed treatment that they maybe weren't certain certain about before?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So I'm gonna try and answer your question, but I'm gonna pick it apart a little bit if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

That's like presupposing I have an agenda ahead of meeting them, right? Which I really try and not do, right? Like I think what you're what you're asking is like are patients being felt like they're being sold to, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Is that is that yep, yep. When you feel sold to, I think the main component is person selling something to you is talking about what they need and want. They're focused on themselves rather than what you know, what you need and want, right? And so nobody wants to be sold anything. That means that person has a pre-assigned agenda, right? They were gonna, you know, it's it's about them, it's about what they need, it's about what they think. It might even not be, it might even be selfish, but it's about their own personal philosophy that they want to like push on you, right? Being sold to, right? So I try, right, and we kind of frame this from our first meeting in our comprehensive exam. I want to talk about what you think's important, right? You know, I have an obligation as your doctor to like not neglect you, and there's things I have to tell you. If it's there, I have to, you know, I have to tell you about. But I really, really try my hardest to talk about why you're here first, right? And I think if we do that, it's a very human gesture. It's genuine. Like I'm not pretending I really do want the why you're here today, right? Yep. And if we can address that together first, right, and I can talk about what you're concerned about, and we can find a solution to your problem, right, first, um, then I think that's the beginning of of a relationship, right? And then and and then it kind of flows, you know, from there. Right. So what I mean, somebody, I don't know. I don't know what, why they're here, right? And so it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love

Oral Health Links To Whole Body

SPEAKER_00 21:00

it. I love it. If any as we're in regards to oral health, is there anything that you wish all of your patients knew before they step foot into your practice or any practice? So this isn't necessarily your practice. So for any listener out there, like that's going into a dental practice as in regards to their the health of their gum tissue, the health of their mouth and how it relates to the rest of their body, is there anything that you just wish like everyone just knew? Like it just became a plain old fact, common knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

You know, it's interesting because like I went, I was really, really blessed. I went to Stony Brook uh dental school, and they have an oral medicine program, and it was really like the first of its kind in the country in the 70s, right? And they were they were focused on all this stuff. And this is not new research, right? So like I remember from year one hearing about you know the link between cardiovascular disease and and and the oral, you know, your oral health, the link between diabetic control and bacteria that's in the mouth. And like we studied it and we learned it, but it was academic. Right. And so we we learned all of that. And I was blessed to learn that. And then, you know, you go out on the clinic floor and you know, you're taking a metal stick and you're measuring the gums, and it's a deep cleaning or a regular cleaning kind of thing. And so it becomes very and it's like, okay. And I'm a real practical kind of person, you know, and so if it doesn't, it doesn't change my behavior, it doesn't mean much to me, right? But we had all of this information for the last 50, 60 years, right? And I don't think anybody's talking about it. And I don't think it's out of neglect or a lack of a concern. It's just there was never a really great way to bring it practically to the chair Monday morning, right? And I think that's what's that's what's great about the microscope, but not just a microscope, you know, bacterial testing, which we might want to get into if you'd like. But it's we can now visualize and see the offenders. We can test for the offenders. It's a real thing, right? And now we can, you know, we can inform patients of this in a meaningful way rather than in a general way. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yes, absolutely. One

What To Ask Your Dentist

SPEAKER_00 23:06

last question. So for patients that are going in to the dental practice, and maybe they don't get to come up to your practice at Lake Hill, but if they were going to their practice and they're thinking to themselves, you know, I know my hygienist has talked about having bleeding gums before. I remember my dentist talking about it, but they just did a cleaning and told me to brush her floss more. Is there anything that you would recommend that patient ask the next time they go get their teeth cleaned, whether they're asking their dental hygienist or their dentist? Like, is there specific questions that might help them to better understand their oral health?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

It's really tricky. I guess I would ask, are you seeing anything that is indicating that I have inflammation? Because we we know inflammation is bad. You're never gonna hear, like, hey, great news. This is inflamed. It's just bad news.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Right? It's just bad news, right? And I think like the future of like medicine is gonna be, you know, we're gonna find out all these diseases are like one etiology, right? Like you have inflammation in your brain, you have Alzheimer's, inflammation in your heart, you have cardiovascular disease, inflammation. So, you know, you know what I'm getting at, right? So that as a root cause, right? And we have individual genetics, and we we have individual like behavior, environmental exposures that make us, you know, express disease in one way or or the other, one particular illness or another, but the root cause is inflammation, right? And so, do I have inflammation is a good question, right? You know, you don't need a microscope to know that, right? Um, and you know, it's and I don't want anybody to think like a dentist doesn't have this is a bad dentist, right? You know, I know No, of course not.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

There's so many ways to practice. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

And there's many, many ways to do it. Traditional methods can still work. It makes our job easier with the new new tools. That's there's no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

But that's a place to start. Do you see inflammation, right? And what can we do to manage it? Right. And then the means and the methods to which you do so are at least grounded in the in the right focus.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yes. Yes. It's not it's not just about having a clean mouth. It's one without inflammation, one without bleeding. I love it. Are there any final thoughts that you would like to share with our audience?

Hygienists As Prevention Leaders

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Anything that we didn't cover?

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Um, well, it's uh, you know, your audience is a general audience, right? But there might be dental professionals.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Um, I've just got to have a big, big hug out there to our hygienist colleagues, right? You know, I I you know I I'm on the Facebook groups, you know, I'm, you know, I I read the forums, you know. There's some, I don't want to say it, there's a there's some tension right now in in the field. I don't know if you know what I'm getting at, you know. And so we're really uh we're colleagues, right? And we can't do our job without you, and you can't do our job without us, right? And part of what I've truly loved about changing this approach in my practice is that we've been able to make them the stars of the show, right? We've been able, you know, because prevention is worth an ounce of cure, right? They're at the front lines. I think for a long time, you guys have been over-trained and underutilized, right? And and I and you have a lot to offer, you know, our patients. You have a lot to offer the dental community. And I think this is a great way for us all to do this together, make our patients healthier, you know, uh, make our practices more attractive for patients. Win-win for everybody. So that's that's been probably the most rewarding part of this whole thing is watching my very capable team blossom and take this on and become better versions of the professionals I know they want.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

I love that, Dr. Denning, so very much. I'm gonna say nothing else because I couldn't end this podcast on a on a better note than that. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

No, thank you. It's been a pleasure.