The Just Checking In Podcast

JCIP #361 - Jenny Tomei

• The Just Checking In Podcast by VENT

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 49:30

In episode 361 of The Just Checking In Podcast we checked in with Jenny Tomei. 

Jenny is the Founder and CEO of JenUp C.I.C. 

JenUp is a social enterprise specialising in training teachers on how to spot the early signs of an eating disorder. It also provides workshops for students on eating disorder awareness and body image.

Jenny has lived experience of eating disorders herself, when she developed anorexia when she was 19 years old. She struggled with the anorexia for over 10 years, and in her words, should have been admitted to hospital as an in-patient in 2009 when her BMI dropped to just 14. 

At 23 she was forced into treatment but wasn’t ready to recover. She then moved to Australia, ended a toxic relationship she was in at the time, and went travelling. 

However, she came back and relapsed. 

It was only when she was around 27/28 years old that her first steps of recovery began. 

She then relapsed again aged 29 years old, before finally overcoming it in 2020. 

Because of the Covid-19 pandemic, she had to close her personal training business and in the ashes of that, she founded JenUp in 2022. 

Since then, she has spoken in secondary schools about her journey of recovery, has qualified as a nutritionist and is in the last year of her qualification to become a specialist eating disorder recovery therapist.

We discuss this journey from crisis to recovery and now advocacy, the impact she has had on young girls and boys she’s spoken with and her goals and ambitions for JenUp going forward. 

As always, #itsokaytovent

You can find out more about JenUp here: https://jenup.co.uk/.

You can follow Jenny on social media below: 

TRIGGER WARNING: this podcast contains discussions about eating disorders, which some listeners may find distressing or upsetting, so please listen with caution.

Support Us:


SPEAKER_00

Trigger Warning. This podcast contains discussions about eating disorders, which some listeners may find distressing or upsetting. So please listen with caution. Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Just Checking In Podcast. I'm your host, Freddie Cocker, and this podcast is brought to you by Vent, a place where everyone, but especially men and boys, can open up about their mental health issues, break down stigmas, and start conversations. In each episode, I check in with a special guest. We have an atta and a chat about all things mental health, as well as anything and everything else they are passionate about. If it helps that person with their mental health, we discuss it. My special guest for this episode is Jenny Tumei. Jenny is the founder and CEO of Gen UpCIC. Genup is a social enterprise specialising in training teachers on how to spot the early signs of an eating disorder and provides workshops for students on eating disorder awareness and body image. Jenny has lived experience of eating disorders herself as she developed anorexia when she was 19 years old. She struggled with the anorexia for over 10 years and, in her words, should have been admitted to hospital as an inpatient in 2009 when her BMI dropped to just 14. At 23 years old, she was forced into treatment but she wasn't ready to recover. She then moved to Australia and ended a toxic relationship she was in at the time and went travelling. However, she came back and relapsed. It was only when she was around 27 or 28 years old that her first steps of recovery began. She then relapsed again age 29 years old before finally overcoming the anorexia in 2020. Now, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, she had to close her personal training business she was operating at the time, but in the ashes of that, she founded GenUp in 2022. Since then she has spoken in secondary schools about her journey of recovery, has qualified as a nutritionist, and is in the last year of her qualification at time of recording to become a specialist eating disorder recovery therapist. She has also secured funding for Gen Up from the National Lottery Community Projects and the Smile of Hope charity. We discuss this journey from crisis to recovery and now advocacy, the impact she has had on young girls and boys she's spoken with, and her goals and ambitions for Gen Up going forward. So this is how my conversation with Jenny Tamay went. Jenny, welcome to the Just Checking In Pod. Thank you so much for letting me check in with you. When I came across you on LinkedIn via my good friend and all round just checking in pod legend, that is George Mycock, I knew I had to have you on. It looks like you're doing so much important work with Jen Up. First of all, how are you on this Saturday morning?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, I'm good, thank you. Sun's out, so I'm happy.

SPEAKER_00

Excellent. Any friend of George's is automatically a friend of mine. We'll see if you love a chat as much as him. So without further ado, are you ready to start the show and talk all about your wonderful journey?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I'm ready to start and thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00

Let's start your podcast, Jenny, by diving into your mental health journey, as it's the origins of all the amazing work you're doing right now with Jen Up. So I ask all my special guests on this topic this question first. Take me back to early life, teenagers, and looking back, were there any early mental health experiences? If any, who's the Jenny we meet here?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, yeah, my teenage years were pretty good to be honest. I'm really lucky. I've got a really lovely family. I'm very close to my mum and dad. I've got two older brothers, they're a lot older than me. There's a 10-year gap, actually. So I was the youngest. So I had a really amazing childhood and very good sort of teenage years. Sort of my mental health problems started around when I went to university. So like kind of 19, age, 18, 19 years old.

SPEAKER_00

Before we get to university, you said to me off air that you did struggle with anxiety when you were in your secondary school years. So what were the factors behind that and how did that impact your mental health at the time?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think I'd always been an anxious person, but I didn't really recognise what anxiety was. I didn't really understand it, and I didn't really know I had anxiety. I think there's more awareness around it now, isn't it? And kind of like how to like manage it and what are the signs of anxiety. I did put a lot of pressure on myself, especially when I was doing like my levels and stuff, because I wanted to do really well. So that the pressure led to like anxiety and stress. I had a lot of stuff going on in my mind, that kind of unconscious sort of thought process I wasn't really aware of. I had a lot of that as well going on. I guess it started like to creep in around that kind of you know, six form just starting to go to university.

SPEAKER_00

We fast forward to university, so you're around 19 years old and the eating disorder is starting to develop, which you had and take hold. At the time, you're a cross-country runner, you're into your exercise, you're still into your exercise now, but in a healthy way, obviously. So tell me how that manifested, and also what were some of the factors do you think looking back that might have led to the ED in the first place?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure. So it all happened, yeah, when I was 19, sort of going to university. I came from like a private school, so it was very small. My mum and dad put me in private school because I was sort of struggling and kind of needed that extra support, especially with like things like maths and sort of English and stuff like that. I definitely think I had a little bit of dyslexia that wasn't really picked up, to be honest. So that's why they wanted to put me in private school. But with the private school that I was in, it was just sort of very small. Like it was obviously a small amount of students in my class, which was good. It was really helpful for me. But I think I sort of became quite sheltered in that environment. And then going from school to university, it was a big change for me. So I think change is a massive risk factor for an eating disorder. I didn't know how to deal with that change, so you know, I met lots of different people from different walks of life, like different cultures and stuff, and I think it was a massive change. So there was that which created a lot of stress and anxiety, and then yeah, my first year of sort of university, I was a victim of like bullying and like abuse. So that really triggered the anxiety basically and the anorexia. So I didn't know how to deal with that. I'd never experienced emotional abuse or bullying in my entire life, and then I just didn't know how to deal with it, and I just suddenly stopped eating. I don't actually remember what I did as part of the anorexia and the kind of the PTSD, you don't really remember it because obviously I suffered a trauma and I just decided to stop eating, and then I dropped an extreme amount of weight. My BMI went none to about 14, and I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_00

We'll also discuss it a bit later in the pod, but you told me that you also had undiagnosed ADHD at the time, and you also said something that I'd never heard of before called relative energy deficiency or RED or red for short. Now the name sounds quite obvious, but can you just tell my listeners what it is and how it I guess interacted with the ED or the ADHD traits at the time as well with your mental health?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure. Yeah, so I actually got diagnosed with the ADHD probably about a year ago now. And I was Same. I'm not one of these people that kind of thinks that I'm ADHD, so I can't do this, I can't do it. I just kind of like I'm like, okay, I have that. Because I'm quite a hardworking and determined person, so I don't like to see it as something that, you know, something that's holding me back or, you know, some sort of disability that I have. I don't see it like that. I just try and get on with it. Yes, you know, maybe I'm being quite modest, but it probably is quite hard to deal with, like having ADHD. But I think I'm so used to dealing with it and how how I am, but it did explain the kind of exercise addiction that I had. And it is obviously a lack of dopamine in the brain. So I used to run a lot as well, which obviously created a lot of dopamine for someone like me. But yeah, I mean, getting diagnosed with that was a big sort of eye-opener and it has helped me to understand like why I did what I did and why it also wasn't a massive sort of exacerbator of like all my symptoms because it it heightened everything, like the body dysmorphia, the strong emotions, the exercise, the addiction sort of traits and stuff. So yeah, I guess now I kind of know how to manage it better, like having understood it. And like with the red, so the relative energy deficiency syndrome. So I basically went into that when I came back travelling from Australia. So this was like after university, so I wasn't really sort of fully recovered when I came out of treatment. I started training basically. So Bromley and Blackheath Harrier sort of running club, and you know, it was good, but it was kind of you just sort of turned up there and it was like, yeah, do your session, you kind of that push hard kind of nature, like you'd push yourself hard in their sessions. I'd turn up and it would be like 10 lots of 400 metres with like 90 seconds rest in between. That was the kind of session that you would have. Like you'd obviously have like a warm-up before, and it was really intense. But I started to go like every week, like Tuesdays and Thursdays, and I became really good and I started doing like races and stuff, doing like county races, and I got asked for races, and I just saw my time coming down. And obviously, I got very addicted to that, but I was very underweight, I had no period at the time, and I had reds. I fell into reds like just immediately. So that went on for a few years.

SPEAKER_00

I just want to come back to the BMI point because thankfully, you know, my friend Hope Verko has done so much amazing work on changing the conversation around the link between BMI and an eating disorder or the threshold for diagnosis, right, to be precise. Yeah. And like you said, your BMI dropped to a dangerously low level. And you said to me that you should have been admitted on reflection as an inpatient at that point. But you're also in denial about the ED. So would it have helped at that time looking back or not, do you think?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, probably not, because I was very much in denial that I had a problem, but everyone obviously no one really said anything. I mean, my family were very worried when I lost an extreme amount of weight, but they didn't know how to approach it. So I was very snappy with them. You know, I sort of call myself a dragon, as it were, because I was. I was like that.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't addiction pal. That's how people in addiction react when they're called out for it, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And they were never gonna like drag me to a hospital and do that because my family aren't those sort of people, but that's probably what I needed. Because with anorexia, I do you've got to be harsh but kind, sort of, with it.

SPEAKER_00

Tough love, innit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's sort of that kind of yeah, that's tough love. But yeah, it's I mean, that is probably what I needed at the time, but it's okay because I I know that they were just trying to do their best for me and they didn't know how to handle it because there was that lack of education, and that's okay. No one sort of knew, so but I think there is definitely more awareness around it now, and when someone's being my doves drop that light, yeah, it's definitely immediate referral.

SPEAKER_00

You spoke earlier about that relapse, right? And when you came back to the UK was when it happened after going to Australia. Yeah. So, how do you look back on that relapse now? Because I think one of the main, I guess, talking points when I speak to people who have had addictions, whether that's a food addiction, whether that's an alcohol addiction, whatever form it is, and especially an ED, is this idea that the relapse means so much more stigma, or that it means that they can't come back from it, or people will judge them more harshly for it. So, how do you reflect on that relapse given how much you've done with your recovery now?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, relapse is very common with anorexia if you don't have the tools going forward, like how to manage it and how to manage emotions, stuff like that. So, you know, I don't really blame myself for that because you know, I was experiencing very strong emotions. I went through sort of like a big trauma and like I just, you know, I didn't really know about the ADHD. I honestly look back at that time and I think, what was I doing? I was probably very unhappy, I was very high achieving, and I joined this club, it became my whole life, it became my whole obsession. I look back at it now and think, who was that person? Because I was just so like narrowed focused, like on this goal. And I'm just like, I mean, it's changed me and it's made me appreciate what I do have. I can be still like that, but when it comes to fitness now, I'm just like, I don't really care. Like, I'm just happy to like have my health. Because I think I look back on that time and I think, oh my god, that was like so detrimental to my health. So, you know, I do a lot of water sports now and I actually competed last year, and I was very mindful of being like, no, be happy with that. Don't go further, like just be happy with where you are now, be happy with the speed you're at. I have the tools to understand myself a bit better now because I can always just kind of drive and want more, and then I get obsessed with that, and then I end up pushing my body to this extreme limit, which is what I did. But now I have the tools to just tell myself to actually not do that because it's not healthy, and also my experience taught me a lot.

SPEAKER_00

It's really interesting you said there about gratitude for your health, right? And I remember one of the key points I took from Hope's campaign quite a few years ago. I remember she had Jeff Selling from Sky Sports News give her a shout-out, and the statistic that for a person, an eating disorder is one of the most dangerous, and I'm sure you'll know you'll know this, that conditions you can have to the person. I mean something like schizophrenia is probably for the person, but also for other people, potentially violence, etc. But from an eating disorder perspective, were you quite aware of that? And and still are aware of that now in the sense of having that gratitude for your health, because in many examples, I know survivors and I know people who have sadly lost their lives to it. It's life or death, really, in many cases.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is. I mean, you're slowly starving yourself. That's what you're doing. And that's what I did, and you know, that can create detrimental side effects and long-term side effects to your body. So I think that and I want to say this when I decided to actually speak about my journey a bit more and do it as like a keynote. The anorexia has made me more grateful, the things that I do have in terms of my health. I realize that okay, yeah, I can still exercise, maybe I can't run anymore, but at least I can do this. I don't push my body to the max anymore because that's not healthy. You know, I have rest days, I don't need to train every day. It's all about mindset with this, and it has made me grateful. Like I'm so thankful that I have my health because I was in a really bad way at one point. I had a lot of issues with my bones and stuff, like my bone density.

SPEAKER_00

Um I've got that the hip and the spine as well.

SPEAKER_01

So that's where you're most sort of affected, especially with runners as well. Yeah, and I had to go on HRT for that. So hormonal replacement therapy, yeah, I was on that. That was the most traumatic time ever for me.

SPEAKER_00

I had a You're in your mid-20s, right? When you're doing that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like 28, 29.

SPEAKER_00

God, that must have been tough because HRT, and I've spoken to women who've gone through the menopause, I've spoken to HRT practitioners, and it's something for menopausal women, traditionally. So that must have had an old new dimension, you know, that feeling of losing femininity or being associated with something which is a loss of femininity, for example. Is that how it felt as well? Kind of having to go on it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I hadn't had hormones in my body for so long. Like I always say like I felt like this like robot. Honestly, I was like, I just thought I was just that machine. I was so numb, I was so numbed off. There was no emotion. There was just like one goal, push my body to the max, kind of very just tunnel sort of visioned, and I didn't listen to my body at all. When I was tired, I just pushed through that, which wasn't healthy, so I didn't have hormones to deal with, I didn't have any emotions to deal with whatsoever. So a part of me was like, Well, I'm loving this because I don't have to deal with all of this. But then the other side was like, you know, actually, when I started to go on the HRT, it was actually quite traumatic. You know, when I first had hormones back in my body, I was like, oh my god, I've got all these chemicals in my body. And it was like I'm Your body's like, whoa, yeah, yeah. I'm starting to like feel emotion again, and it was actually, yeah, that was a very traumatic and hard process. That took me years to uh actually recover from that and kind of just get through it and heal the body and stuff. So I'm just getting used to like having a regular period again and kind of learning how to be a woman, actually, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

These are the things that people don't hear about as much in recovery from EDs, especially from a female perspective. So I'm really glad you talked about it there, Jenny. With recovery itself, you're 27, around 28 years old, when you make that first proper step, right? Why was then the moment you felt ready? And who is the Jenny we meet at that moment in time?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I mean, I remember I was in the gym, I was trying to do this workout. I think I was on the stepping machine, yeah. I was on the stepping machine, just to work on my endurance a little bit. I could barely even do like 10 minutes on it because I was just so out of breath. Like I had this like shortness of breath, and I remember just feeling exhausted, and I was just like, Do you know what? Like, I can't even do my sport anymore, like I can't even train the way I want to. I was just I think you get to the point, like they always say with anorexia, they do say that some people do reach a turning point, and I think that was my turning point because I lost everything, I couldn't do my sport anymore. Like sport was a big driver for me. Like, I'm very sporty, I love my sport, and I couldn't even do that anymore. And business was failing and stuff, and I thought, well, what am I achieving here? I just said to myself, there's got to be a better way, there's got to be a better way of life, and then that's when I started to go back into counselling and seek out a hormonal specialist to help me.

SPEAKER_00

Friend of the pod, James Roffey, who has overcome his own ED, he spoke on another podcast that unlike alcohol or other drugs in recovery, he said, you know, those people can park it to some degree, they can lock them away, block gambling apps on their phones, etc. But he said, with food, you can't do that, because otherwise you'll die. In his words, you literally have to face your demons every single day. How much do you relate to that?

SPEAKER_01

A lot. Yeah, I was saying that to our partner actually. We're talking about that. Yeah. And I was talking to someone about it that I know who had a very bad gambling addiction and alcohol as well at the same time. So you know, I'm really glad you actually mentioned that because not many people talk about that. But with foods, like if you don't eat, you're not gonna survive. So yeah, I'm not gonna lie. Every day it felt just hard. And there are some days where I'm like, oh god, but they're less now, obviously. But I'm not gonna lie what's hard because it's not something you can't just give it up. So, and yeah, that's the hardest part of recovery. So that does take time to kind of work through it, and just obviously going to therapy and kind of talking through that is key.

SPEAKER_00

Was your mantra then building on that? Just take every day as it comes, get through the day, fight on, and just keep doing it like that and just keeping it really slow, baby steps?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and just seeing feed in a different way, like and kind of notice how I am when I feel myself properly, like I have better mood, I can function better, I can run my business effectively, you know, I have more energy to do the sports that I do, and that brings me joy. So focusing on that way and kind of flipping it and seeing feed in in a different way, and it allows me to do all the things that I want to do in my life, that's really helped me to sort of focus on that element that some days, yeah, I I felt like some days, especially when I was in recovery when I had to gain a lot of weight, it felt like an eating competition to me. I was just like, oh, like every day. And that's what sometimes it feels like for some people, especially like when you're in recovery, it's hard. But when you obviously gain the weight and you balance everything out, you know, your eating does balance out eventually and it does get easier. I try and see food as that kind of thing. It allows me to do the things that I want to do in my life and do well at and be present with my family, my friends, you know, not be this irritable person that has no time for anyone.

SPEAKER_00

I want to come back to relapse because you have a second relapse when you're 29 years old, 10 years after you're first diagnosed. You then get through that, you go back into recovery, which is great. But when did you feel like and I guess this question is probably quite open-ended, when did you feel like you had overcome the worst of it and you could actually just keep progressing? The ED no longer had the control over you for the best part of 11 years.

SPEAKER_01

Um, probably sort of like early 30s, really. Yeah, started to kind of feel you know, I mean Yeah, I think early 30s. I mean, even now, some days I'm like, okay, it was a little bit hard, but I don't have that every day. Like every day used to feel hard. But you know, those days got less, maybe 33, round 33.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. When I came out of the most intense period of therapy that I did for the best part of eight years from I say 20. Well, I started when I was 20 and then I did very intense therapy from like 25 to 28, 29. And I kind of said often on this podcast and privately to friends that when I came out of my victimhood mentality, I often say it felt like the proverbial wool had been lifted off my eyes and I could see the world in like full technicolor. I also realised that on and off for 20 years I was kind of lost, I was never fully present. How do you reflect on that 11 year period and the journey in that period of life, mate?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. Um That's a really good question. I look back at it now and think like I don't know who it was. It just felt like a bit of a blur. That's probably What it kind of feels like to me, having kind of given that question some thought. And like, what was I doing? Like, I must have been actually really unhappy if I look back on that time, especially when I was trying to run races all the time. Because I used to race like every weekend, it just became my whole life and my whole obsession. And my life was very small. Now my life is a lot bigger. I do more things, I have friends, I have a bit more of a social life. So I do look back on that and think, wow, that was a lot. There was a lot going on. And just how much happened in that time as well, and things I had to kind of work on and to get through. And as you say, I think I just had to take each day as it sort of came, to be honest, because recovery was never a straight road, it was always just up and down. And that's how I approached it, really. And I truly believe, like, because I always had this sort of like athlete sort of mindset. I truly believe that sort of helped me to sort of stay strong and to kind of get through the bad days, like when there were bad days. So I'm quite thankful for that to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

We're going to talk about your advocacy work and all the brilliant work you do in a bit, mate. But given what you went through, there might be parents listening to this who've got kids who are going through what you did, men or women, boys or girls. There might be people going through this, men or women who are going through an ED themselves, or maybe they're in recovery or they're in crisis. What advice would you give them at each stage if they're trying to support someone, whether it's in crisis or in recovery, or maybe even preventative stuff, definitely. Or if they're going through it themselves to help themselves get the support they need.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think if you've got like a loved one in recovery or they're going through something, I just, you know, obviously trying not to base a conversation around food or talking about weight or like diet talk or like reflecting on your own relationship with food and your body image. So being careful of that and the language that you're using around food and your own relationships, just be mindful of that. Because if someone's got an eating disorder and you're saying, Well, I'm going on a diet and I need to burn off X amount of calories, that's going to really trigger them and trigger that part of their eating disorder brain. So what was helpful for me in recovery was that my family had a very good relationship with food. Like, you know, my family were like, Yeah, we eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So just seeing them eat was helpful to me. And like being around people that had a normal eating routine, didn't speak bad about food, ate all foods, ate dessert every now and again. That said to me, in a part of my inner sort of brain, oh okay, that's fine. I have permission to eat because others are eating as well. So that made me feel more comfortable. So sitting with them, eating with them, positive language around food, that can be really helpful for someone in recovery and quite therapeutic, actually.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say, was it almost in a way a very basic, nonchalant but powerful grounding technique just to see that behaviour modelled?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean that was that was massive for me at home. My home life was always really good. Like my mum and dad's very sort of traditional people. We all eat our meals together as a family. I was always had breakfast before school. So mine was sort of more external factors that influenced it. So home life was really good. Because now I, you know, I get a lot of teachers telling me that parents, I know, sometimes struggle with their food or their own body image, and that's okay. Like we're not all perfect. It's okay to not be okay. But it's just being mindful of how that might be affecting your child who may have an eating disorder and it may trigger them. And when someone gets triggered in eatness or recovery, it may set them backwards.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you've also got to think about either a bad home life affecting the eating disorder or traits or developing it, or even parents who've got eating disorder traits projecting it onto the child as sort of um Munchausen's by proxy, sadly. So there's lots of things to consider there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's just sort of being mindful. When I talk to parents, I say it in a caring and compassionate way. I don't sort of come across and say, like, don't do this. I just say just be mindful of this. And then some of them are quite grateful for that because they come to me and say, Yeah, thank you for that. I'm gonna be a bit more mindful of how I'm speaking about food, or like I shouldn't eat this, or I feel guilty for eating that. And so I think they do appreciate that. All I say is just language, just think about your language, it's so important.

SPEAKER_00

Let's reflect on your mental health journey, Jenny. So, first of all, what has it taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01

Um, no one's ever asked me that. Um I think I'm actually a really strong person. So it's yeah, having looked back on kind of what I've been through, I think that my mental resilience is actually really good. And you know, I used to get really awkward saying that. I was like, no, it's not, because I was very hard on myself. And people who do have anorexia and who've been through that, they're their own worst critic because they're always so hard on themselves. So that's one thing. They're almost bullying themselves, unsadly, isn't it? Yeah, you are, yeah. You're your own worst critic, and I've had to learn to be kind to myself and have that compassion for myself. And I do say, yeah, do you know what? I went through a lot, and you know, I'm happy to be where I am, and that's taken a lot of strength to get there.

SPEAKER_00

And as a final question before we move on, if you could go back and talk to that 19-year-old Jenny in the depths of her anorexia, the 25-year-old Jenny in Australia relapsing, or maybe the 28-year-old Jenny who has taken her first steps in her recovery, what would you say to her, knowing what you do now, if anything at all?

SPEAKER_01

That's a good question. Oh gosh, this is so hard because I want to say so many things. I'm just trying to think like pinpoint one thing. I'd probably say to be kind to myself and recognise my achievements. I think they're the two big things. I was never recognising what I achieved. Like I did so much in my 20s in terms of like what I did achieve in my sort of sporting sort of side of it, because I had to stop sort of competing, which was really hard for me, but I did achieve a lot in that time. So just to congratulate myself, congratulate my achievements and be content with what I've actually done because I never did that, nothing was ever good enough. I was always striving for more and just looking at things and just gratitude, being more grateful, like tell myself to be more grateful. So definitely those things.

SPEAKER_00

We've talked about your mental health journey. Let's talk now about how you've turned this massive negative into a vehicle for positive change with Gen Up and your advocacy journey, Jenny. So, when did the first realization come to you that you wanted to turn the negative into a positive in the first place through Gen Up?

SPEAKER_01

Probably actually during COVID times. I used to have a PT business, and during COVID, that sort of went downhill. And I lost my PT business. And I thought, you know what, I want to do something different. Like, you know, lockdown COVID was a really tough time. I really struggled during lockdown, and I kind of knew that eating disorders were gonna go up because it was probably the perfect environment for an eating disorder to sort of thrive in that because we had all the time in the world to focus on our food, our exercise. So people who were in recovery may have really struggled. Obviously, you know, services and everything being shut down. So I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna use this time to try and build something to help people because I do, you know, I did sort of believe that I thought, right, I think eating disorders are gonna go up. Like, I think that this is gonna cause an extreme issue. Calories on menus as well, pal. Yeah, yeah. Like there's so many different things that are gonna trigger this and kind of make it worse. So I thought, right, I need to do something. So I was like, I want to do something empowering, I want to help young people, I want to support people with this, because I just thought in my head, I was like, right, I don't want anyone to go through what I went through, because what I went through was so hard. And I was like, right, I'm gonna turn this into a positive. And then all I did was I just started talking to people. I went a bit mad with the Zane meetings, to be honest. I think I went a bit bonkers, sort of went into this like tunnel, like wolf, like, and just did all this like extreme amount of networking. I think I burnt myself out with the amount of networking that I was doing during lockdown, but I had to keep my brain sort of occupied in some way, otherwise I felt like I was gonna go insane. So yeah, I was doing like all this networking, talking to people, and then I just found these two amazing guys that were kind of like design websites, helped you with like kind of creativity and you know, loved my idea and kind of like he spoke to me. And basically, like after sort of lockdown sort of ended and we came out of COVID, I basically met with these two guys and we brought my concept to life around like the kind of goal that I wanted to achieve. You know, I started making all these toolkits. I got funding for them from a charity, so I started making all of those and kind of like rolling all of those out, and then yeah, working with these two guys, sort of like creating the website basically, and it just sort of all followed on from there, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

Tell me now how you share your story through Gen Up in schools, academic institutions, workplaces, and how you tailor it based on the audience, because I imagine you'll need to make it far more appropriate and more careful when you speak to children, young people, whereas you might be able to be a bit more open with the teachers or the parents or adults in a workplace, for example.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure. So yeah, I've got different talks for like different year groups. So I talk from like year seven up to sixth form. So with the year sevens, I basically talk about different types of eating disorders, like disordered eating, body image concerns. And then yeah, I do bring my own story into that. I just say like what I went through, what caused it, you know, learning about myself and that I've learned to be kind to myself and working with the perfectionism issues that I had. So I kind of just do a little timeline of my journey, really. Good, don't go into too much detail. And yeah, I kind of do that for all the year groups. I mean, these year sevens, year eights, like they know all this, like it's social media. They knew more than me on some things. Like some of the questions they asked me are like, you know, they've seen this on social media, like, is this true? And I'm like, how do you know this information? Like, you're in year seven, so they know all of this. So yeah, I kind of do a little snippet of my story, and then for the six-formers, I kind of go into my more over-exercising sort of addiction and talk about that and how that took over, and how chasing thinness didn't make me happy, and how it led to like sort of my health issues, and then I pair that with a talk with George from My Own Minds, and he talked about his muscle dysmorphia side to the boys, and it works quite well as a talk.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you've answered my next question nicely there, which is about the work you do with George. So I want to build on that a little bit because George obviously is a great lad. I've had him on three times now, and he's spoken a lot about his experience of muscle dysmorphia, and he does all the talks that he does. So, when you do the talks together, how do you dovetail in more detail? Like, how do you work together to ensure that the boys feel heard, the girls feel heard, they don't feel victimized, they don't feel demonized if maybe there is someone in the audience who's going through that, and also that you don't blame their own femininity or masculinity for the reason why they are suffering.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, basically in the talk, we go into a little bit about what healthy eating is, like body image and how to have a healthy relationship with feed, keeping it nice and sort of simple. I literally just bring my own story in and say it how it is and how I just sort of became that tunnel vision person. I wasn't feeling my body well enough, I was tired all the time, I couldn't run my business, what it took away from my life, the health issues that I had from it. And I just sort of say, you know, if anyone's struggling with this or you want to talk about it, or if it's triggered anything new, I always say like they can come talk to us after the session or speak to a member of staff. I like to make myself very authentic, very approachable. I'm quite sort of an empathic sort of person, so I like to come across them that way. And it is quite vulnerable. Like I'm standing up in front of like two to three hundred people, like telling my story. So I like to think that I'm being vulnerable, I'm showing myself, so I hope some people in the audience think, well, like, you know, I feel like I'm going through something similar. And it might motivate them to talk about it or seek help early. And then with George, he basically talks a little bit about what is muscle dysmorphia, so a little bit of the science sort of side of it he brings in, which I think is really good. And then yeah, he tells his own story of how he struggled with muscle dysmorphia, and he tells it in a really lovely way, really, and kind of honest and just really open, which I think counts for a lot to be honest. I don't think men sort of talk about their mental health a lot. So maybe seeing him say that we're getting there, pal. We're getting there. Don't worry about that. You know, I think that having someone like George in the school is good, right?

SPEAKER_00

So Yeah, very much so. Has there been one obviously protecting confidentiality, but has there been one particular moment or conversation in these last four years, three to four years of advocacy, which has really meant a lot to you and maybe the people you're helping as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, do you know what? I've had teachers come up to me and say, Thank you for doing this, that I've struggled with my in-eating disorder. I've had that. And like I said, I think it's really good what you're doing. And that's what they said, which was great, and I really appreciated that. Yeah, I've definitely had parents sort of come up to me and say, like, when I do talks around the language and stuff, and say, like, definitely gonna be more mindful about the language that I use. That's been really nice. And with students, yeah, I have had a few students come up to me and sort of ask me about, you know, how did I recover? What helped me to recover? Because I've done a bit of international work with schools as well. I had a couple of students come up to me and sort of say, you know, my biggest sort of thing that I say in my talk is that I wasted a lot of time and you can't buy time. And a couple of students came up to me after that and said, No, you're right, because they were trying to chase this sort of thin ideal, and they were saying, Yeah, do you know what? Like, I feel like I am wasting time doing this, and what have I got to share at the end of it? So I thought that was really powerful. What else? Generally, it's more just like, How did I recover what helped? I feel like they just wanted hope that recovery was possible.

SPEAKER_00

That's it, pal. Exactly it. Before we reflect, you're a qualified nutritionist, but also at time of recording, you are in the final year of qualifying to become a specialist eating disorder therapist. So, why did you decide to embark on this journey, this new journey, this new chapter? And what different tools have you learned along the way through it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, I've done my eating disorder training and I did my nutrition training quite a while ago, so that was three years. So, God, and this counts. I've done another three years of study. Like, I feel like all I've done is just study all my life. And my mum goes to me, When are you gonna stop? I'm like, I think this is the last one. Then I'll find something else to do. But yeah, so I did my level three and my level four. So, well, yeah, I've done my level two as well. So my level three counselling course was one year, and then your level four is two years. So yeah, I'm in my last year of my level four. I was debating whether to do that or not because Jenat was growing and I had to dedicate like whole one day to this course, and it's two years, and you have to do like a lot of clinic hours alongside of it. But I just thought, you know what, I need to do this because I'm doing so much in schools, I want to work with more young people, and I need my counselling in order to do that to help them to get them to where they want to be. So it just adds value as to what I can do and what I can deliver to the schools, so you know, and that's what I wanted to do. I'm all about providing more value for someone, and that's the reason why I wanted to do it. And yeah, I might start working and take on my own patients who have anorexia because I work with anorexia now, but I work alongside in the team, so with uh psychotherapists, and I work on the nutrition side.

SPEAKER_00

Let's reflect on your advocacy journey now. So, what's been your proudest achievement on it so far?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, do you know what? I mean, there's quite a lot actually, and I've got better at this at sort of noticing what I have achieved. So I think generally sort of receiving the national lottery funding for Gen Ups, I've received two rounds of that now. That has been really great because it's really hard to get funding, it's not easy. And I think you know, when I received that email of like, you know, congratulations, you got the funding. That was just like an amazing moment. Yeah, I got a bit of a dopamine hit from that, but it was an amazing moment, and I thought, oh my god, yeah, and that felt really good because I was like, it just gave me the motivation to kind of keep going with what I'm doing, and just you're here for a reason, keep doing what you're doing. So that really helped, and then sporting sort of side, I have competed in my water skiing last year and I got a ranking, so it's the only sport I'll get a ranking in. So I was quite happy about that.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, what a turn up for the books. I wasn't expecting water skiing on this podcast, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is good. Skifund water skiing.

SPEAKER_00

And second of all, what goals and ambitions do you have for Jen Up in the future? So, for example, you mentioned to me off air you wanted to get more funding and you wanted to get it specifically for something I'm very passionate about, which is early intervention support and training. Yeah, and that's something which for EDs is just absolutely massive because this is something I've rail against a lot in the mainstream conversation about boys. It's very much aimed at crisis, right? If you're struggling, reach out, if you're struggling, reach out. And actually, people who are mentally ill aren't going to have the capacity to reach out. We need to be reaching in, so that's the first thing. But also, we shouldn't be doing this at crisis mode. We should be doing it far earlier because not just for the person, but the money you save, the people's pain and experiences that they won't have to go through. So tell me how you want to go about doing this as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so at the moment I've been sort of running this program in schools on early intervention of disordered eating and body image sort of concerns. So I've run it as a program now. Um, because I first started doing like workshops and stuff in schools, and I kind of realised that there's a deeper issue, and one workshop wasn't going to cut it. And then I was like, right, I need to do something more. So then I went away and for the second lot of funding, so I got funding to deliver this course and had some really good results with it actually. So, because there's a lot of disordered eating growing in schools and body image concerns. So I've really enjoyed running this course. I've made little tweaks to it along the way, had some really good results in it, like students' eating patterns improved, like improved sleep as well, because we talked about phone usage a lot, like these students are just on their phones like way too much, and just talking about social media, like what's real, what's not. So we've had some really amazing feedback from that course that I'm running in school. So I definitely want to keep rolling that out and maybe offer that to more schools and sort of expand upon that. It's working really well. So I think once you've got something that works, just keep doing it. So I definitely want to keep doing more of that. And yeah, I do have a coach every now and again that I speak to just to kind of speak about where I do want to take it. I am someone that needs to go away and reflect and think deeply about what I want to do and where I need to kind of take this forward and what I want to do with it. So I still feel like I'm in that phase of just understanding where I want to take this, what I want to do, whether I get other people on board. So it's just kind of thinking about that and what the next stage is, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

And as a final question before we move on, what has this advocacy journey also taught you about yourself so far?

SPEAKER_01

Making me think a lot about myself. Um that I can actually run a business, that I can do it, that I have the skills to do it. Um, because I never used to sort of believe in myself that I could do it because of the anxiety and the self-doubt that I had and that I could be an entrepreneur. So definitely that. It's given me the belief that I can do it.

SPEAKER_00

We've come to our final topic of conversation, Jenny, and it's one I try and have with all of my special guests if we have time. It is a general natter and quick fire chat about our mental health. So, firstly, how is your mental health out of 10? Eight. What age were you when you became self-aware of your mental health for the first time and you realised that the feelings you were having weren't physical and they were actually in your mind? 26. And was it a Eureka moment or a gradual process? Gradual. Can you remember the first or the most important conversation you've had with someone about your mental health? So who was it with? What did you say, and how do you feel looking back on it? Did it feel like the stereotypical big weight had been lifted, or on the other, something quite natural, easy, and normal to do?

SPEAKER_01

I'd say it was always with my counsellor who it was with. I've got a great relationship with my counsellor, like for so many years, so she's amazing. She knows me so well. So definitely with her, we were discussing sort of like emotional abuse and stuff and the effect that had on my brain and how that fed into kind of my unconscious and how I believed that I was this bad person. So, like, even just kind of like working through that and just sort of rewiring that and understanding that I am not that person, I am this person, I can do this, understanding what's going on in my unconscious. That was a big moment.

SPEAKER_00

What things in life do you find that trigger your mental health, if any? So it could be things people say, sound, smell, sensation. Or have you not figured all of them out yet?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think with triggers I mean, yeah, if I sort of like if I get sad or anxious by triggered, like for example, if a family member comes really unwell, which I have had, that made me so anxious, and it kind of sends my body into this fight or flight state, and it really triggers me because I don't get hungry when I feel like that. And I understand there's a big emotion going on there for me, and I tell myself that, well, we're not gonna listen to that. It's not gonna be a long-term thing. This you're gonna damn regulate yourself. You let yourself cry, you're gonna let yourself feel this emotion, and then the next day I am better, and I'm does help regulate my eating because I think you don't want to go backwards. What do you achieve if you go backwards? It's okay to feel this emotion, even though nobody else is showing it. It's okay to not be okay.

SPEAKER_00

And conversely, what positive tools do you use to improve your mental health or help you feel better? Which ones have worked for you and which ones have you tried but haven't?

SPEAKER_01

Positive self-talk is really beneficial for me. Understanding when I'm thinking negatively. So, you know, if I'm thinking negatively about myself or a situation, I sort of say, no, I can do this, and I'm quite proactive. If I say I'm gonna do something or have a goal, I just do it and I take action on it because that's how you make stuff happen. You just do it. And then so noticing when I feel negative and putting steps in place of that. I use exercise in a really good way now. Like if I'm feeling a certain way, like I'll go for a walk or I'll go to the gym, but I don't completely trash myself in the gym. Like I just have a normal session, I don't need to do that anymore. Or just talking to a friend, I've got really good friends that I talk to, so I speak to them more openly now.

SPEAKER_00

If there was a mantra in life that summed up your mental health, what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_01

I always think if you believe that you can do something, if you tell yourself that you can do it, and you put the steps in place in order to get towards the big goal, like small mini steps in order to get to the big goal, what's stopping you from doing that? I used to have so much self-doubt like growing up and so much anxiety, especially around my belief and capability that I could run a business because there was a lot of uncertainty running a business and it is hard work. But I just say no, I wrote down every single day that I can do this and what my goal is, and that positive thing of like, yeah, you're gonna have a bad day today, but tomorrow's a new day, and just writing down all those small manageable goals that you can take in order to get to the big one, that really helped me.

SPEAKER_00

I've got a feeling this is gonna be the most difficult question you'll have to answer on this podcast, Jenny. So I'm gonna ask it anyway. What do you love about yourself?

SPEAKER_01

You've asked me a couple of different questions. That's probably the hardest one. Um, I love that I am a resilient person because I believe that I am. I'm a very kind and sort of caring person. Yes, I have big, strong emotions, I am an emotional person. Sometimes I hate the fact that I'm an emotional person, but it actually makes me really good at my job, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00

Well done. You got through it. I've got one final question. You can answer it any way you want. What more do you think we have to do to ensure people from all backgrounds, all walks of life feel comfortable and safe in opening up about their mental health issues or just their general mental health, if most importantly they want to do it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think having sort of little small groups or communities and stuff, like where people feel like you know, other people are going through the same thing, like having a community of people, I think that's really helpful because if someone opens up that they're going through something and then another person does, that person is gonna think, oh well, I'm not the only person that feels this way. So I think that's quite powerful. Like having you know small little communities, like self-help groups. I think that's definitely something that could be really powerful.

SPEAKER_00

Jenny, it has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the Just Check In podcast and talking to me, pal.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks so much for having me. I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's all we've got time for this episode of the Just Checking In pod. A big thank you to Jenny for being my special guest and for letting me check in with her. I'll put some links to where you can find out more about the amazing work Jenny is doing with JenUp and follow her on social media in the show notes. As always, thank you to all the vendors who tuned in to this episode. Remember, if you've liked what you've heard, give it a share on social media by tagging us at VentsHelp UK. Tell your friends, family or work colleagues about us. If you're feeling generous, please do write us a review and give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to support us further, go to patreon.com slash eventhelpuk or make one off donation to our PayPal. All of those links are also on our link tree. That's linktr.ee slash vent helpuk. We hope to check in with you again very soon. And remember guys, it is always okay to vent.

Contributor

Freddie Cocker

Host