Scott Murray Explains How to Build Trust on Camera Without Trying Too Hard (The Secret Strategy)

Meet Scott Murray, content strategist and communication expert, as he breaks down what it actually takes to create content that feels human, builds trust, and connects with an audience in a world increasingly filled with AI and over-polished media.

If you’ve ever struggled with sounding natural on camera, building real connection with your audience, or figuring out how to stand out without relying on gimmicks or trends, this conversation offers a clear and practical perspective on what actually works today.

In this episode, Scott shares insights from over 20 years of experience across media, coaching, and content strategy, and explains why the biggest advantage in content today isn’t better editing or smarter tools, but the ability to communicate like a real human. We talk about what actually makes someone engaging on camera, the difference between confidence and performance, and why trying to sound “professional” often kills connection.

Scott also dives into the role of AI in content creation, why authenticity is often misunderstood, and how creators can balance structure with natural delivery. He explains common mistakes like over-scripting, copying other creators, and focusing too much on perfection instead of clarity and audience understanding.

We also get into practical ways to improve your on-camera presence, how to fix monotone delivery, and what actually builds trust with an audience over time. Whether you're recording podcasts, YouTube videos, or short-form content, this episode gives you a framework to create content that feels more natural, more engaging, and more effective.

Scott Murray is a content and communication expert who helps creators and professionals improve how they show up on mic, on camera, and on the page. Through his work, he focuses on helping people humanize their content, stand out, and build real connection with their audience.

Learn more about Scott:
Website:
ScottMurrayOnline.com
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/scmurray/

Book (Undeniably Human Content):
https://www.amazon.com/Undeniably-Human-Content-S-T-M-P/dp/B0F89LNGH1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1SQU6XMWU6ZAJ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mB7qQ-y__-1tpEDq0mF3gYD0FERfQKLs2GZbsPVMExU.h6Z7xKv0j0uepdnwG0uoy3w7vZFiItgWXm8sbK8CDnk&dib_tag=se&keywords=undeniably+human+content+book&qid=1772650038&sprefix=undeniably+human+content+book%2Caps%2C210&sr=8-1


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In this episode, we sit down with Scott Murray, author of "Undeniably Human Content," to discuss how creators can develop their on-camera presence. We explore practical tips on how to talk on camera effectively and how to be confident on camera, moving beyond the misconception that presence is innate. This conversation provides valuable insights into improving communication skills and making your content more magnetic. 👍 Drop a like, share your thoughts in the comments, and let us know what you're excited to explore next on our channel!

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👍 Drop a like, share your thoughts in the comments, and let us know what you're excited to explore next on our channel!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Most creators think presence is something you either have or you do not. They're wrong. I'm sitting down with Scott Murray, content strategist and author of undeniably human content with 20 years of experience across broadcast media, podcasting, and on-camera coaching. He has helped brands and creators stop sounding like marketers and actually connecting with their audience. The next hour he's going to break down what makes someone magnetic on camera, how to stop killing your content with the wrong habits, and the framework he uses to make content that actually lands. Let's get into it. I usually ask our uh guests to introduce themselves and for anyone meeting them for the first time, just like explain in one sentence what you do or maybe like who you are, just like give us a little bit of an overview of about you.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

My name is Scott Murray, and I uh combine uh 20 years of experience in uh content across media with an extensive uh study of communication to help people do all the things that we say we want to do today in content, which is humanize it, stand out, and make a connection with the person on the other side. That is my core focus, and I help people do that primarily through the three main areas, which I say is on mic, on camera, and on page. And that's uh been my focus. And that really, when I talk about the 20 years of experience side of things, um when I went out on my own, I had to kind of market myself a little differently, you know, because when you're, you know, trying to get hired at a company, you can say things like, Oh, well, I can do all kinds of content depending on what you need. I can write it, produce it, and do all these things. And then when you go out on your own and you want to help people out, you can't say, Oh, I can do everything. So that's not really what people want to hear. Yeah. Uh and it really doesn't help you because people, you know, have really specific needs. So I had to figure out what was the number one thing that was consistently key to success every time I had it uh in my career. And it was always being relentlessly focused on the audience and what I needed to do from a content perspective that was going to help my company at that time stand out and then connect with that one person that's going to be reading something, hearing something, or seeing something. And really that came down to um really kind of the principles we use every day with connecting people face to face. So it really is about content communication. So that's really what I focus on today.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So you've been in like different areas of this industry from what you're saying. Like you've done broadcast media, digital content, coaching. Like, what's the line for you that connects it all?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

It's making sure that when we're developing that content, we're we're spending more time in the development phase uh thinking about the other side. Uh, as creatives, you know, I learned this very, you know, I always shouldn't say I learned it quickly. I did eventually learn that I had I had to be careful because there's times as creatives or as content creators, we get either focused on what we think is a cool idea or a good idea, or maybe there's some sort of old marketing formula we're using that we think is correct, and we're not thinking about what our audience is experiencing and how that might impact what we're about to make. Because at the end of the day, we're not creating that content for ourselves, we're creating it for uh our audience. So I have found that spending more time thinking about the audience and less about what we're trying to get out of it sometimes is really beneficial and it makes the whole process more two-way than one way.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

What's the moment like for you that you realize that presence, for example, was like a measurable um advantage and not just a soft skill to have?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I think it's because a lot of times you can tell in the content. I mean, what's interesting about content a lot of times is, and we we find now with AI that people are already doing this sort of thing. I mean, think about what people are doing with AI right now. They're not even sometimes paying attention to the content as much as they are the signal up, you made this with AI. And a lot of times what that means is is they're interpreting that to mean, well, you were too lazy to put any effort into this, you just threw this out there because you think I'd fall for it. So, you know, that's my opinion. And I didn't even watch the content to generate that opinion. So a lot of times when we're doing content and we're focused on these processes that aren't really involving the other side and involving something that is, you know, a little more, I hate to use this word, I apologize, authentic because it's a buzzword. But uh it is big because a lot of times when we're following these formulas we get stuck in or we're too focused on what we're doing, it comes through in the content and people look for that.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, because AI, if you think about it, it's just a collection of data, but like the human creativity is a completely different thing that we need to bring into this. So whenever I talk to people about content creation, I don't think AI is a threat. And if you think AI is a threat, I don't feel like you're doing like the right type of content, right? Like when you're watching like a creator, um, and you can tell that they're good, but they're not really connecting with their audience. What are the first one or two tells? What do you do about this?

SPEAKER_01 5:01

If we're talking about video, um, although when we talk about like podcasting, it can cross over a little bit. A lot of times, uh, if we're watching it, they're usually probably following a script we've all heard before. So it's clear they're not even talking their own language, they've just seen what other people do, and now they're doing their version of it. So there's already something that's not standing out to the viewer. The other thing that gets really challenging, and I think more people that are doing video content need to work on this, is trying to make it so polished and perfect in what they say that they script everything. And I mean everything. And it's like next thing you know, instead of me looking at the camera and talking to that one person, they're at times doing this and they're reading, and then they're up here again and they're down here, or they're or literally maybe I've seen videos where they're down here the whole time. And there's gotta be more ways to maybe rehearse what you want to say a little bit and not script everything, but do a little more of an extemporaneous thing because we actually live in a day and age where people are looking for less polish and AI plays a role in that. So we can be a little more of ourselves, just be a little more prepared and organized in what we say, where we're not having to constantly look down and sound like reading. That's the other thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Especially for me, I noticed like I started doing interviews now, and I don't want it to be like an interrogation. I want us to I want you to feel like I'm actually listening to what you're saying and we're having a nice conversation. And I feel like that's what people want to see. So whenever like I get into calls, like I always keep that in my mind. Like, I need to make sure I'm not just asking questions. This is not just like a job interview or anything like that. This is like a natural conversation where people can get value from. And one other thing that I find interesting is that um a lot of people they they think they're confident in front of the camera, but that doesn't really translate well for you. Like what most people get wrong about confidence on camera.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Well, I mean, I think sometimes people overthink uh how good they have to be. You know, I I worked with someone just recently on their on-air presence, and it was so fascinating. I mean, it's a perfect case study, right? So we're obviously talking like you and I are. Um, and he was telling me all these big name personalities that he wanted to emulate. And I had to just kind of call time out on that for a second and say, okay, it's it's good to have people you look up to, but here's the thing you have unique qualities on camera that they don't have. And, you know, you don't want to go out there and try to be like them when you have so much to bring to the table yourself. And that's what people are looking for. Um, and what would be kind of interesting is when we got really into the coaching side of things and he started trying to work on how he would describe what he wanted to talk about on camera, he was amazing. But all it took was at that point in time, he was comfortable talking to me. So he just had to get comfortable who was on the other side of the camera. And then when he started to just explain things like he would to anybody, he actually had a really good on-air presence. He didn't give himself enough credit, but he knew the topic and the subject matter so well that once he allowed himself to really start talking about it the way he would, as if he were face to face with me, it's just so happens we're on a camera. I mean, he was he was a natural. So really at that point in time, we're talking about fine-tuning something. So the important thing is just, you know, if you can talk to somebody and you're comfortable talking with somebody, um, that's a I mean, you're already ahead of the game, really. It's just a matter of being able to visualize that person in front of you instead of thinking, oh, I gotta be confident in front of the camera, is a kind of a game changer. But you have to kind of see it happen.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

For for someone like that, what would you say is that makes the the biggest difference in how trustworthy they feel on screen? Like what can they do to make like a difference, even if it's just like a tiny little thing that it could change? If you're a content creator and editing is eating your week, pay attention. VidPros is a professional video editing service built exclusively for creators, not a random freelancer, not an AI tool. A dedicated human editor assigned to your channel who learns your style, your voice, and your vision from day one. Here's how it works: you film, you upload your raw footage to our portal, and your editor handles everything from there. Captions, color ratings, sound design, transitions, effects, all matching your brand. You get notified when your video is ready, send revision notes directly to your editor, and you post it. Clean, simple, and repeatable every week. The results speak for themselves. Our creators go from 4 videos a month to over 17. We have helped channels go from 100,000 to 600,000 subscribers, with some seeing a 200% increase in uploads. Pricing is simple. Start with a $100 trial for one full week. You choose 10 short form videos or one long form video, professionally edited with fast turnaround. After your trial, the full service is $1,000 a month. Dedicated editor, unlimited revisions, direct communication, and consistent delivery every week. Go to vidbrills.com and start your $100 trial today. Stop editing, start growing.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Well, I think um, I mean, first off, practice. You know, there's a lot of thought leadership out there regarding video, and I'm sure you guys have talked about this too. You know, at some point in time, we can really overthink things so much that we're not even creating content. And if we're not creating content, we can't watch it and go, you know, I could have done this a little better. So my next video, I'm going to do less of this, or oh, I repeated that phrase 16 times. Like for me, I do that. Uh, you know, I've caught myself many times. We all have little phrases we say all the time. And uh being on the producer side of things, uh, I I catch my even myself and I'm like, man, I say the phrase, what's interesting is a lot. So I have to make sure that I don't say that six times in one video. Um, so you just really have to get out there and start kind of fine-tuning what you want, and um that that really goes a long way, and it's amazing sometimes. That's how people look at video one, and then when they do video 25, they'll look at the two and they'll go, Wow, you know what a difference it made for me just to get out there and start recording because 25 looks different from one.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah. No, human retention is something that is always in the back of our minds here in this podcast. And like for you, when you talk about the human side of retention, what do you mean in like practical terms?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Well, I mean, again, this is where the self-awareness comes in. This is where we're thinking about the other side. We all have um our own reactions to content. We don't always think about um that when we're developing our content. I I always make the joke that it's almost like the TV series severed. You know, our our mindset at work and our mindset at home are separate. So what we end up doing sometimes is we'll create content uh and uh that if we were on the other side, we'd never engage with because we're so focused on different things when we're creating it. So um I think about, you know, think about some of the things that keep your attention and don't keep your attention when you're watching video. You know, is it the fact that it stays on one static shot for too long and it doesn't cut away to anything? Is it because they look like they're reading? Is it because all these different things that can create, you know, a moment of disengagement that could play a big role in things uh as far as how how long people are are paying attention? So uh we're we're not only talking about organizing your thoughts and organizing the presentation, but if you're thinking about going more than about five, six, seven, eight minutes, you probably should have something else happening on screen or cutting away to something because newscasts have been doing that for years. They have to have things to cut away to because they know they're gonna lose the viewer. So it's the same principle. Um, and I do think, you know, I I I'll sometimes be looking for something on YouTube. And if I'm looking for an answer and I see one answer that took 12 minutes to to give me the answer, and another video that takes six or another video that takes two, I'm gonna go for the shortest one more often than not, because I may be asking, why would it take 12 minutes to answer this one thing I want to know?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah. No, it's interesting because you actually pretty much answered my following question, and I just want to do like a follow-up on it. Because uh my question was, is it possible to be highly edited and still feel human? And where is the line? So where would you say is the line?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

When I think about uh my work in podcasting, the thing that used to always kind of make me a little nuts was the idea that editing is taking out ums and uhs, and that's what editing is. And the thing is, is one of the things that's helped me as a podcaster is I know when I get on a roll, I maybe it's a conversation like I'm having with you, or maybe it's a time where I'm just kind of doing a commentary. I can go back and listen to it and edit myself. I can I know when I veered off a little bit and go, okay, the listener's not going to care about that. I'll take that out and then put it together where it's a more concise thing. I mean, it's very much like when you come out of a movie theater and you say, well, that movie could have been about 25 minutes shorter than than what it was. And it's because, you know, the the thing is they say the editor or the film director fell too much in love with his own work or her own work that they didn't do enough editing. I think just being able to find those moments where you can, you know, keep things moving and kind of know where you might have veered off and just think of uh viewer value, audience value. I mean, gosh, when I was when I first took my first classes in uh broadcast media, broadcast journalism, the word jump cut was some of the worst things you could possibly do, but now it's acceptable. So you have these really nice ways to kind of, you know, don't overdo it where it feels like you're, you know, uh cutting things up too much. But feel free to fine-tune what you're doing because at least it's acceptable. And I think over time you'll just kind of have it in your head, uh, a little clock that'll go off that will keep you from having to do too much of that editing down the road. But, you know, just always be thinking about what's the listener, what's the viewer going to care about and focus on that, even in post-production, and that goes a long way. Just don't overdo it to where you sound too polished and you're trying too hard to sound too perfect, because that's when it gets weird.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

If you were to rank, let's say energy, clarity, authenticity, how would you do that?

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I would wow, okay. Can we do one and one A? Uh I actually would I would actually put it's tough to put I there's probably it's like one of those types of uh things where you know if you rank something today I would tell you one and two is this, and tomorrow I may tell you one and two is this. Yeah because I struggle with where authenticity and clarity uh go. If that's why I said if there's one or one A. Um, because I I I guess clarity has to be number one because that means before I even hit record, I know what I'm gonna talk about. So let's just go that way. So now we're gonna hit record and now we're gonna be ourselves. And as far as energy is concerned, to me, I mean, yeah, you you don't want to make it look like you just woke up in the morning, but uh, and you can always fine-tune how that comes across. But at the end of the day, you still have to be yourself, especially if you're creating video content for your business, because the last thing you want is to have this, you know, high-energy personality on camera, and then you have a client or a prospect reach out to you, and suddenly it's not the same person they saw on camera. So you you definitely want to be yourself. So that authenticity is important. And wherever that authentic authenticity is, is probably gonna dictate where the energy is.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

I actually struggle with that uh myself. I always think like, how corporate should I be in front of the cameras? Is that really me? And I try to be as informal as I can because I feel like that's what people connect with the most. So it is a question that I've always had in the back of my mind that you just answered. So thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Oh, you're welcome. I'll tell you, I watched a video the other day where this um this woman was talking about how she almost quit YouTube and she was somebody who was doing everything, like structuring everything perfectly. Uh, she was scripting things, you know, hair done a whole bit and was trying to be as polished and professional as she was, and she was struggling to get anywhere on YouTube. And it wasn't until she finally started to just talk to uh the camera and she said it was like her best friend instead of like I'm trying to talk to this audience who might be interested in my business. It was more like her best friend because she knows her best friend isn't gonna fall for some, you know, pitch or something like that. But she also got real comfortable just just talking like herself. And I and there was a guy who was doing the interview at the time who said the the fact that she took a moment to actually push her hair back was something that appealed to him because he knew if she was trying to be too perfect, she wouldn't do that. There was just something about feeling like they were hanging out like in a in a living room discussing this. There was a game changer to her channel and to her content. And I think that's pretty good advice. If you can kind of visualize just a person you're talking to, like you're having a conversation, it goes a long way and it takes some of that pressure off. And apparently, you know, that's that's the type of thing people are looking for. I actually think to your point, and you're talking about struggling with it, when we start focusing so hard on that, that puts a lot of pressure on us to make sure we're doing probably too many things right, and then we're hurting our video. So it's nice not to have some of that pressure.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Is there any creator in specific that you know that they their presence carries their content? They have like simple edit, but massive retention. Anyone that you feel like they're doing it right?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I I don't think there's somebody specific. It's interesting watching what different people do. Um, you know, some people just have the natural ability to be able to be engaging, um, and and they know how to build their video around that. Um, and I it'd be hard to say this is what you should do because there's some people whose style is going to be different and their video content's gonna be different. But one thing that I think is consistent about it is that comfort zone with just being themselves on camera, and then just obviously finding some ways to stand out because what I think can be problematic with people who don't necessarily have just that natural ability to just flip on a camera and be engaging, just the just nothing more than you is really hard. And that's why the editing is there, that's why there's so many tools out there today. As if you are talking about something, you can add graphics. If you're talking about a list of things, you can cut away to visuals, you can use t tools like Vyond to um create anime, you know, animation as part of what you're explaining, or whiteboard, just something that might just help people pay a little close attention if you don't have just that natural ability to hit record and go. Most of us don't have that. And I feel like you almost have to have a pretty massive following to be able to rely on that. So give yourself as much help as you can.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah. And if someone feels stiff in front of a camera, what do you fix first? Is it the body, the voice, the mindset? I would imagine it's the mindset, but I'm curious to know about you.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, I think mindset's probably a good place to start because they're you know, it's just like walking out in front of a group to do public speaking, right? And yeah, like you say, you're you're kind of like this. I mean, it's perfectly okay to be you know nervous going into that because that's almost human. But I I remember somebody talking about this, and this might actually be good for video content for the specific situation you're talking about. I saw someone speak, I think it was at uh content marketing world, um, and it was like one of her first few speeches she'd ever done. And the only reason why she was doing is she wrote a book, so she was suddenly getting invited to speak places, which she had never done and didn't plan to do. And she said those first two or three speeches where she'd walk out in front of the crowd, she would be st really kind of tense, which obviously is going to impact her speaking and how she communicates and connects, because people can generally tell. And she said the game changer for her was she she realized what was making her so stiff, as you say, was she was obsessing about herself. Are they gonna like me? Are they gonna value what I say? Are they gonna think I'm an expert? Are they gonna like my and she said the moment I realized I have something to offer, I have expertise, I have something I'm going to do that's going to help people, and focused on them as opposed to everything I'm worried about regarding myself, she said it was liberating. And I feel like we can get into a similar thing when we start thinking about camera. Do I look good on camera? Are people gonna think I'm you know a professional? And all these things that make us, you know, that kind of sabotage. Is our ability to connect with someone. If we can find ways to kind of loosen that up and say, hey, we have something to offer. We're going to make sure we're providing something of value, which I know that's something you focus on. It can go a long way. And it too, I think, can be liberating because it it's it's a lot of just stuff we obsess over ourselves when or ourselves when we uh focus on what we're gonna, why we're gonna help somebody and how we're going to do it, that helps across content even beyond video.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

What do you listen for in someone's voice that signals that uncertainty or low authority? Is there any specific thing that you notice it's a pattern?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I think what I listen to most of the time is is just how natural somebody is speaking, you know, especially since again, and and when I talk about this, I I look at this as a human behavior issue, not so much like a creator issue. And that is we copy what we see other people do. I mean, think about how many times we see things, uh, you know, thumbnails on YouTube that look like everybody else, or intros that look like everybody else, and they say it like everybody else. And sometimes that's usually not even how somebody talks or how they would open a conversation. So sometimes I think what I look for is if someone's really trying to be different in any way, and if they sound like they're actually talking, or if it does sound like I'm copying off of things I've seen other people do, or I just sound really, really, really scripted. And like I said, sometimes that can even be somebody looking down or looking around when I feel like that's already a disconnect, right? So if somebody's talking on camera and then all of a sudden they're down here, you're like, whoa, where are they looking? Where are they looking at? And that just takes uh you know some some work to get around. But those are the type of things I really I I find myself looking for is just where's that where's that comfort zone and just um just getting in front of the camera and being yourself and talking to me like you're just having a conversation helping me with something I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

When it comes to your workflow, like how do you uh coach someone to be confident and not really performative or fake?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

It kind of depends on the situation. I mean, you take the example I gave earlier. I mean, in that case, uh it was it was amazing how much work they didn't need. So, really, what we did, it was more about the organizational aspect of what he wanted to create. You know, there were some questions as to okay, who's the audience? What's your channel gonna be? What's your focus gonna be, and what void are you filling? Because there are a lot of people talking about this, but why are people going to listen to your thought leadership on this or your advice on this? What's different? And a lot of what came from him was personal experience and getting him to feel comfortable talking about that. Um, so what we ended up doing was we just had some trial runs. He wanted to do two or three different variations of video content where we would record it and he could see it, but we weren't gonna publish it and then we could talk about it. So that's one of the things we did. One time it was just him talking to the camera. The other time he wanted to be interviewed, kind of like we're doing. And since I've done that for a very long time, I just said, okay, well, what do you want to talk about? I developed the questions and we just watched how he did. And again, what was interesting about it was um he he had a natural ability to do it. He just thought he had to be this other thing, and it was really great to be able to watch what he did and say, see, look at that. What you're doing there is great, it's perfect, it's you, and and it and once he realized he already had kind of the skill set, there was uh very little we had to do, but it was good that we were both there to identify it.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

But also when it comes to that uh delivery is really important. So, what's her approach to fixing uh like a monotone delivery?

SPEAKER_01 25:48

It kind of depends. I'm not a huge fan of broadcast diction. And what do I mean by broadcast diction? If everybody's wondering what broadcast diction is, I mean the reason why I use that is because that's what we were told when I took broadcast journalism. And and if you watch any local news program, it's that you know, delivery where they're talking like this and they're saying things with over enunciated words, and there's people who will do video content and they think they gotta do that. Please. Most YouTubers are doing that. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that at all. It's so unnatural. I mean, there's even people who do uh sports broadcasting, and it's so over the top during a game, you're like, uh, just just tell me what's happening. This is too much.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I see people doing that on TikTok, which is supposed to be a very uh natural, flowy type of social media platform. So it's that's something that I've always had in the back of my mind, but I I didn't know how to put into words, and I feel I feel like you put it out there, but I do agree with that completely.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

It goes back to what something we've already touched on because I saw this in the early days of podcasting. I've been podcasting since 2011. So what would end up happening is, and this still happens because I've seen actually people on Reddit talk about this very thing like you and I are. It goes back to that whole thing that we've we've seen and heard these other examples, and then we think, okay, that's how I need to sound. So they look at video and podcast as broadcasting, which is a little counterproductive because both of those media, you should only be focusing on the one person who's watching or the one person who's listening. That's why you see all these videos where people say, Hey guys, really, you should be talking to that one person. And on a podcast, you should be talking to that one person. So what happened was in those early days of podcasting, a lot of those people grew up listening to morning radio and you know, the wacky morning crew in the morning. And so they thought, oh, well, we'll just hit record and we'll just talk about how we ate pizza last night and dozed off and did all these things. Meanwhile, the audience is waiting for you to get to the topic. But they started that way because in their mind, well, that's how radio sounds, that's how we're gonna record our uh podcast. Same thing with video. Why see these broadcasters? In fact, that's what you know that client I told you about. You know, he had these broadcasters that he wanted to come on and be like as he's talking. And we're like, no, no, no, talk like a human. People like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Well what what's their day on scripts or bullet points? Because I feel like they could actually hurt your content in a way. I do like sounding a bit natural, but at the same time, I do feel like sometimes it's necessary to have some sort of like bullet points to guide you through it. What would you what would you recommend for different personality types?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

I mean, I think there's multiple ways to go. Um you know, I've actually on occasion used uh it's been a while since I've used it, but I I had an app for a while that allowed me to read prompter. And uh I was comfort, but I was comfortable doing that because I've done that before. Um, but I was able to run it from my computer and then beam it to uh uh a tablet and put it right above my camera so that way when I read it, I'm not down here, I'm not over here, I'm actually looking more here. Um now descript came out with a really nice tool that if you're reading right right about here called eye contact, in which the uh AI will move your eyes up to the camera, even if you're reading it down here. Uh, but you have to make sure it's it's in the vicinity, you're not like over here. It's not gonna move your you're not gonna move your eyes if you're way down here or here. Um so with that in mind, um, you know, a lot of it just kind of depends. If you're gonna use uh scripting and you're gonna go all the way through it, the most critical thing I think is teaching yourself how to read that without sounding like you're reading, which is kind of a challenge, uh, but it can be done. I mean, now with AI, you can teach AI this is how I talk. I want to turn this into a script, but I want it to sound like how I talk. Could you take this stiff script and turn it more into like how I talk? You could probably pull something like that off to help you talk more naturally and not so much scripted per se. Um then there are those who can do what I would just say is extemporaneous style. It's all bullet points. You've got your bullet points in front of you. And really going into this anyway, you should already have memorized um what you're gonna talk about. As long as you have what you want to say memorized, you don't have to memorize a script. But I've also had cer circumstances like in podcasting where I'll do a little bit of both. You know, I have sections that I do want to be very specific about what I say. So I have parts of the script that are just bullet pointed, and then I have parts that are going into something where I want to be really precise because I want to keep things moving. So you can do a mixture of both as well, especially if you're gonna do like just an audio podcast. But if you're doing video, just maybe don't make the whole thing scripted. And if you do um, if you practice that stuff after a while, you might realize after doing a little bit of both, um, what's better for you. And next thing you know, you might be doing all extemporaneous at one point and be very comfortable with it.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

And when it comes like to interviews, what's the difference for you between a good interview and one that actually creates curiosity loops naturally? And what would you say is like the most common interview mistake that kills energy or dev?

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Whoa man, that's a whole podcast by itself.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

And I it can be let's do a part two on that.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

All right, okay, well, you touched on it earlier, and I loved your point about this because you said I don't like to make it an interrogation, which is a great way to to uh to say it because what are we doing in an interrogation? We're following a list, right? And I've even been in I was even in job interviews where there was no conversation, and I'm like, what are they learning from me? Because these two people sat in front of me in this job interview one time and they just followed the list, and they were generic questions you could ask for any job. There was nothing specific about it, and there were no follow-ups like you were getting to before. Because I've heard podcast interviews where they are so focused on that list that what ends up happening is as they go down, the uh guest actually answered question five during question two, but they weren't listening. So then they go ahead and ask that question and the guest repeats the answer again because they're so focused on following that list. I think active listening is a huge part of a good interview. So it's more ebb and flow conversational. When I go into interviews, I have a lot of questions prepared, but I'm not gonna ask all of them, most likely, because I'm gonna be listening. And when somebody says something interesting, I may reroute it and go another way. A couple of those may not even make it. I would say if you're gonna interview someone who's done a lot of interviews, that's a big name guest, go on YouTube, watch those interviews, and look at how many times they've been asked the same question and think about different questions you can ask that your listeners probably haven't heard them talk about. One quick example. Let me give you this quick example because I love sharing this with people. Back when I was doing uh a lot more interviews, I had this one guest on who was very, very, very, very popular on podcasts, always was on podcasts because he wrote all these really interesting books. And I hadn't talked to him in a while, and I came across uh him at a convention, and he said, You know, I have decided to quit doing as many podcast interviews. And I said, Okay, so what's what's driving that? And he said, I'm just tired of the same question. He said, You know what? Here, here he said, here's what I would really love to happen one day. And this just goes to show you how nuance can really make a huge difference. He said, just once. He said, I wish instead of always making the first question be uh, how did you get started? Because he said, I hear that all the time. It's always how did you get started? He said, just once, just once. I would love someone to say, Why did you get started? Just one word. And if you think about it, his how and why are gonna be very different answers. Yeah. The problem is he gets asked that so much, it's like, you know, it's just a triggered answer. He's not even talking anymore. It's just, you know, the same thing. But if someone said, Why did you get started? That's what the guest likes. Because now they're not going to that answer uh, you know, memory bank because they've been asked so many times. Now they're having a whoa, okay, wait a minute, I'm gonna have to think about this. And they like that. And honestly, as an interviewer, one of the best things a guest can say to you is that's a good question. Because that's telling you you thought something out, and I haven't had to, you know, really answer this a whole lot of times, if ever. And that's a good sign.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

No, and it's very interesting because um what's happening right now is an example of what you just said, because you pretty much answered my next couple of questions in one question. That makes a lot of sense. Because, you know, I wanted to know how we can fix this active listening part for a host in a podcast if you were to teach someone. And also a question that I had just after that was what are the few question types that you rely on to get real stories? And I feel like why is a great one, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah, I mean, um, okay, so tell me your first question again.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

How let me rephrase it because it might have been confusing. But how do you teach like active listening in a way that shows up on camera for a podcast host, for example?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Well, I mean, really, it it's really just breaking out of uh relying on the list to uh drive the conversation. Um, I think, you know, if we just have to be a little more inquisitive. And in a lot of ways, this really goes back to thinking about our audience because look, I mean, we we we're interviewers, but we've also been on the other side, haven't we? And we have found ourselves on occasion going, you know, I really wish they would have asked this, I wish they would have asked this, or I would have liked to have known more about that. And if we can have a little bit of that in our heads as we're talking, then maybe we can trigger some of those follow-up questions that if we were a listener, we might really want to know. Because odds are there's other listeners that are also really gonna want to know that question. And we give ourselves room to ask that when we aren't so over-reliant on the list, you know, and getting to that third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh question. Because like I said, I I have no problem moving around my list depending on how that conversation goes. And if I don't get to a couple, it's not gonna hurt the interview. I mean, at the you know, uh when when we look at the bigger picture, it's it's going to be a good interview regardless, and it's gonna feel more like a conversation because those questions weren't necessarily planned.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

On the other end of things, how would you say you recover when an answer is flat, when the guest is not really giving you much?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Well, you just gotta go and moving on. That's really I mean, uh, I mean, the thing is, is you can learn from that. I've had a couple of instances back when I was interviewing actors from TV and film where you you got you can sometimes make an assumption that you think they're gonna have this personality because they play these kind of you know fun characters on screen, and then you find out in real life they're really professional and focused and to the point. So you try to tell a joke and they're like, no. All right, well, moving on. So uh that's why it's kind of nice to have post-production and not do some of those interviews live, so you can take that part out.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah, it's that is helpful, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

But I mean, really, I would say cases like that, I mean, you just learn from it. Um, there's always gonna be surprising moments, and you just gotta think on your feet and move on to the next thing and make it seem like it doesn't phase you at all.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

If you feel like you want them to say something memorable, like what you do before the interview even starts, is there any specific question that is your goal to?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

I don't really. I don't like to necessarily uh, you know, because that's almost like saying I'm gonna make this piece of content so I can go viral. I mean, there's not really a formula for it. I think I think that the preparation for your interview is going to help you do that. I mean, because when I prep for an interview, I mean, there's there's always gonna be obvious questions. When I was doing more pop culture interviews, I feel like the thing that that I would see the most mistakes take place is how many times like amateur interviews would always have questions that started with the phrase, what was it like? What was it like to be in the movie? What was it like to work with this director? What was it like to do this scene? What was it like to, I mean, just all of it was what was it like? But if I could think of like deeper questions, you know, if I if I said, you know, they did this one thing or they've written this book or they focused on this, what what was it about this situation that made them say, I need to address this problem? Or what's what's a story you can tell where this has actually worked? The other thing you can do too is if these your guest has anything online that shows anything about their history, their work history, their background, you know, ask something about that because it may tie something in that's that creates a whole new type of um of questions. Um, and maybe even put what they're talking about into a whole nother perspective because you learn kind of where all this came from and some aspects of their background. I mean, I I've asked questions like that and learned um that someone was a survivor of Chernobyl one time and how that influenced what they were doing. I wouldn't have known that question had I not dug around a little bit. Or they have other hobbies that that play a role that they never get to talk about. And you ask about it in the interview and they light up and suddenly this whole other thing happens. So preparation goes a long way.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

And you said earlier about like getting away from marketing speak. Like, is there anything specific that you notice that is a pattern in that like sort of speech? Like, is there anything that you delete from most brand uh scripts today when it comes to the video?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Yes. I think when we start thinking like marketers and promoters, um our language uh changes immediately. Uh we say things like we we don't uh wouldn't wouldn't say if we were in front of somebody. That's really the key. Because I'll look at even um content on video that's more branded or even just copy and they're written by a specific person, and I I just go, excuse me, they'll say uh they'll say something and I'll go, gosh, you know, if if this person were standing in front of their prospect at a conference, they wouldn't say it like that. And why wouldn't they say it like that? Well, because they know standing in front of them, it would sound weird that the other person would be like, Why, why are they talking like this? And so if we can have the same self-awareness about that when we create video, our language is going to take care of it. Because honestly, that is one of the ways that AI writes when we rely on it all by itself. You know, write this, it will write that generic marketing speak, you know, with all the buzzwords in there. Yeah, because we filled the internet with that stuff, so that's what it doesn't get.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

That's true. Also, like one thing that is really big is clickbait. And like, how do you create surprise without drifting into clickbait?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

We have to be honest about the surprise, you know. There's nothing worse than video content that says, you know, shock or you know, this is going on and this thing happened. And you're like, oh, what happened? You click on it and nothing happened. Um, you know, I mean, that's good for that moment, but after a while, people pick up on it. You know, they they realize, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna to use an 80s movie reference, I'm not gonna fall for the banana and the tailpipe, you know, again, you know, it's just not it's just not a good way to build trust because you know, our brain gets kind of ticked off by that and says, I'm not gonna fall for it again. Um, unfortunately, this is why we can't have nice things, because there might be somebody over here that made a video and said, You're not gonna believe what happened, but but then the brain goes, Oh no, we're not falling, we're not falling for this. So we have to think of better ways to lure people in if our surprise is genuine, because the language that everybody else uses, well, first off, we become desensitized to it, but if we've been hit by those who use that language and don't fall through, we've got to come up with something else so people know that ours is actually gonna be something of value.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

I feel like it's all about rewarding that serotonin that we just helped them release in a way. I see it in that way. One thing that I really want to talk about is your stamp framework, because your book your book uses stamp. Like walk me through each letter quickly, and for each one, give us a real example some that someone can actually apply today.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Uh, it's so funny how stamp came about. Um, this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier when I decided to go out on my own and I had to figure out okay, I need to figure out the one thing that I bring that's going to help content. It can't be just, you know, digital marketing or content marketing or content creation consultant. What's what am I solving? And my my two things that I focus on is standing out and then making that really um powerful, meaningful connection with the person on the other side. Um, that and that achieves everything that we all say we want to achieve, especially brands. I mean, that's so funny today. We see everybody talk about wanting to be more human, building relationships, building trust. We can't do that and rely on old content marketing philosophies back in the day when everybody was a captive audience and they didn't have choices and all that stuff. So I had to develop something that would kind of give people a framework to maybe think through if they Wanted to start infusing uh a whole nother set of things in their content to humanize it and make that connection. So stamp. First thing is self-awareness. We talked a little bit about this. Stopping and saying, why am I creating this content? Is it because I'm trying to check mark a box at work? You know, we know we got out three blogs today. We're trying to do this. Um, why am I doing it? You know, and why is it being written this way? Am I defaulting to old marketing speak? Am I defaulting to old marketing things? Am I repeating the same thing I've been doing with content four years ago? Have I not snapped out of it and tried anything new? And what is my audience is experiencing? What are they gonna think? Thinking a little more about them. So we're taking a moment to think about where's our starting point so we're not going to default to something that might hurt us before the content even gets out. The T is two-way communication. During the uh days of marketing in the 80s and 90s, uh Brafton called that the marketing era. The reason they did that was because they said, kind of what I was just saying, the audience was captive. They were in front of their TVs or in front of their radios, they could blast one-way communication out. And that's that was the goal. The only thing you really hoped for is people saw it, and maybe they'll give you a call, their 1-800 number, or go to their store and buy. Digital media changed changed all that. So now the consumers and the audience are in control. They can ignore this, they can ignore that, they can choose to go here, they can choose to go here. So now we have to do more. And they uh Brafton calls our current marketing era the the relationship era. So if we're focused on building a relationship, that has to be two-way. We have to create opportunities for there to be uh response from the other side, like on social media, or at the very least, we've got to be thinking about them and everything we do because there's no relationship in any part of our lives that's gonna be built with one person doing the talking and one person only benefiting. The third thing is adaptability. That is kind of more of a company culture thing. You know, if you're still approaching blogs today like you did in 2010, that's a problem. You've got to be able to evolve with the times, and the times have definitely changed, but I still see a lot of strategies today that mirror what I saw in 2010. Uh M is meaningful language. We talked about that. It's getting away from marketing language and starting talking, starting to talk to people more like humans through content. Uh, Forrester did a study on this back in 2018 and 2019 because they saw that um that people were uh consumers were wanting more brand humanity. They wanted proof of brand humanity in the words. Those words had to feel a certain way to the consumer. That was 2018 and 2019. Imagine what it is now. The example I like to use is from the Truman Show. If you've ever seen the Truman show, where uh Truman basically has that scene where he's just at wit's end. He's wondering what's going on and what does Meryl do? She turns around and goes, Well, how about I make you some cocoa? And she does this whole ad. It's a perfect example because Jim Carrey is basically today's consumer needing something, needing and saying, I need help. And then the brand is Merrill, who instead of talking to him like a human and solving his problem, is like, Why don't I show you this cocoa? And let me tell you why it's great. And he's like, Who are you talking to? So we've got to start talking more like Jim and less like um uh Meryl or like Truman and Meryl. And finally, uh P is predictive intelligence. So we're doing more to think about why our audience is gonna react positively or negatively to our content. What are they going through out there? We were talking a little bit about this earlier that if our audience is bombarded by the same scripts, the same visuals, the same styles, and then we're about to create something that's just the 930th version of this to hit the, you know, internet that day, we have to stop and think, you know, we could probably predict they're probably not going to pay much attention because it looks like things they see every day. You know, or we were talking about clickbait. Should we create a headline that says this? Because clickbait headlines tend to do that and they get burned. So, what could we do to make sure our audience doesn't think we're trying to fool them and we're going to do this? So we're doing more in our development process to think about what they're experiencing. We're thinking more about human behavior and we're we're focusing a little more on that to better our chances of getting the response we want.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

And it's interesting that you said uh about what you said about the M and the B because to me I've noticed that people are sounding more like AI nowadays. So for you, like, are there things or patterns that you notice that sounds like AI, even though it wasn't made by AI that people are just like gravitating towards?

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Well, in some cases, it's hard to say things that might have been AI that weren't AI. Um, I mean, like in a blog, I I'll I'll tell you this. This is it kind of interesting. Um one of the things I was doing when I first started my business is I was still doing freelance content work. So I would still go and help somebody write blogs or do videos or do social. And I was doing some work for this company. I was doing, it was working out great. I mean, they were happy with everything. I was writing blogs and you know, I I take a very methodical, very audience-focused uh approach to blogs. But then out of the clear blue, they said, we don't need this anymore. And I didn't really know why. A few days later, I went to their blog page, and I kid you not, at least four straight blogs started with the phrase, in an ever-changing world, in an ever-changing world, in an ever-changing technological world, I now knew what happened. They didn't have to tell me. They're t they're having AI write every single blog, and they're so focused on getting that churned out, they don't realize how obvious the AI is. Uh, I watched a video the other day and someone was reading, and they used the word landscape, you know, or you know, or unlock, discover these, these words that AI loves that most people don't know. Leverage. Yeah. Yes. So it's like they're reading an AI script. So yeah, you gotta watch some of those. It's usually buzzwords and phrases like that that are so common. And then and the irony is you could actually use AI and say, what are some of the most common phrases people are tired of hearing or they feel is generic or overused? And it'll give you a list and you could probably guess what most of them are.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah. Now, changing a little bit of the subject, um, what should people know about undeniably human content before they buy it? And who is it for? Because um, for people who don't know it, it's your book, Undeniably Human Content. Let us know a little bit more about it.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Sure. Um, it's it's really anybody who's involved in content. I mean, it's it's mainly uh for for businesses. You know, maybe, maybe you're a business and you're not only the guy that or the lady or the guy who runs the business, but you're also responsible for everything. Uh, and you're trying to create content to build your thought leadership or build uh your brand, and you're saying, what can I do up front? What's a process I can use up front to create content that has a good chance of standing out and connecting with someone day one? Or maybe this content isn't working for my business, and now I want to uh figure out a way to evolve it to be more human and more connective. Um, it's basically giving you a foundation because what I will tell you about the book is I didn't waste any time. You know, I didn't have to get into all these other elements. I literally go through each step. The book's like 175 pages long. I mean, I I didn't want to waste anybody's time, so I focused on the steps and how they apply, but I also back it up. There's over a hundred references in the book, you know, things that back up what I'm trying to uh explain and why it's relevant. So it's not just a, you know, me declaring these things. There's stuff to back it up as well. So the book is really what it says it is. Um, and it's really to help people create content that, like I said, stands out and connects human to human, the human on the brand side or the content side, and the human on the audience side. And because I feel like we've all heard these are the goals, humanize content, make connections, you know, build trust. We hear it all, but have you noticed how much thought leadership will do that? But they don't tell you how to do it. You know, they don't give you like any kind of process or framework. And that's why I ended up doing it. I feel like we hear we should be doing it, but I felt like it was time for somebody uh to give at least a framework for making it at least have a chance of working and following a process that they could implement that has worked for me and my career. Is there like a specific chapter that you'd tell a skeptical creator to just start first? No, because I think it it it depends on the situation. Uh, I will say that it's possible you may have self-awareness down, which is really where it's where it starts. It might be the reason you're getting the book. You're already self-aware enough to know I need to change my processes. You know, so now you're trying to figure out how do I create that two-way communication element. You know, maybe you don't need adaptability as much because you're already trying to evolve. But the two-way communication thing and then meaningful language and predictive intelligence can be huge because those are the things about the communication element of the content. And then really what we're doing more to make sure that we have a better chance of connecting with the other side because we've probably got our side down if we're in that self-awareness phase and we're past it. So maybe you're somebody who's already knows they need to evolve and you're already a lot more aware that you need to change. So now we're focused on the communication and the audience aspect of it.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

And if someone wants your help right now, if they're watching this, what are the main ways that you can help them?

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Uh, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I also have my website, which is Scott Murray, M U R R A L Y Online.com. Those are probably the main ways, but I have my email is Scott at Scott MurrayOnline.com as well. But I'm very active on LinkedIn. If I get message on LinkedIn or connection on LinkedIn, I'm pretty responsive there. So that's my primary social media platform, and I'm there pretty much every day.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Awesome. That's really great to know. I'm pretty sure you can help a lot of people with presence, coaching, podcast strategy, or whatever they need. And honestly, this conversation was so good for me because I've learned so much from you, and that's actually gonna help me a lot with future content. So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much for saying yes. And if there's anything that you'd like to promote, please let us know right now. I know I'm pretty sure you want to promote your book.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Yeah, I mean, it's right there. If people are interested, uh it's right there, it's on Amazon. I actually did everything for it. The only other book I had done was I did a collaborative effort with Mark Schaefer and 31 other people a year before, where we all did a chapter of a book. It's called The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever, uh, because 32 people were involved in it. But this was my first one that I did on my own, and I wanted to make sure that I did it right. So I taught myself how to publish on Amazon, but I also not only had it do the ebook, but I also recorded the entire audio book as well. So uh that that that way I I got to figure out how to do it, and um it is an interesting process to figure out how you do the the physical publishing and the audio publishing, but um, it was worth it. So no matter how you like to consume books, it's all there. Yeah, uh put all the work in.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

I'll actually give it a listen because I do love an audiobook and I like when the author do it themselves.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Me too, me too. And there's some people, this is not necessarily me, but there's some people I've listened to that probably have never done a book before, and I've listened to it, and I'm just like, man, I could listen to this person read the dictionary. Just got that voice, you know. As I've probably demonstrated today. Uh, so uh you know, for them to be able to hold my attention, um, that's that's really saying something. And there's some people out there who just talk and you can't help but listen.

unknown 56:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Honestly, Scott, thank you so much for doing this.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Oh, my pleasure. Well, great interview, too, by the way. Uh, thank you for the questions and love the interaction we had. So keep doing what you're doing because you do it well.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Clarity first, then be yourself. That is what separates content people scroll past from content people actually remember. If this gave you something to work with, subscribe, drop a comment, and come back next week for another conversation like this one. See you then. Bye.