Gabrielle Dolan On Why Storytelling Is Your Greatest Competitive Advantage

Meet Gabrielle Dolan, bestselling author, keynote speaker, and storytelling expert helping leaders, creators, and professionals communicate with more clarity, trust, and authenticity.

In this episode, we talk about Gabrielle’s journey from the corporate world to building a career around business storytelling, why she believes personal stories are one of the most powerful ways to connect with an audience, and how her latest book, Story Intelligence, explores the craft of authentic storytelling in the age of AI.

Gabrielle shares why so many people believe they don’t have interesting stories to tell, why everyday moments are often the most relatable, and how leaders, founders, creators, and podcasters can use stories to make their message more memorable.

We also discuss the decline of trust in business, media, and leadership, and why facts, data, and corporate language are rarely enough on their own. Gabrielle explains how storytelling helps people feel connected to the person behind the message, whether that message is being shared in a keynote, a podcast, a LinkedIn post, or a team meeting.

The conversation also covers podcasting, consistency, audience connection, and how a regular show can build familiarity over time. Gabrielle opens up about her own podcast, Keeping It Real with Jac and Ral, what she learned from her first podcast, and why she now focuses more on usefulness, consistency, and connection than chasing metrics.

We also get into AI and storytelling, including where AI can help, where it can hurt, and why creators need to stay in control of their own voice. Gabrielle shares how AI can act as a storytelling coach, but also why it should never replace your personal perspective, lived experience, or the words you would naturally use.

Whether you’re a creator, entrepreneur, CEO, marketer, leader, podcaster, speaker, or someone who wants to become a better communicator, this episode offers practical insight into how stories build trust, make ideas stick, and help people communicate in a way that actually feels human.

Learn more about Gabrielle:

Website:
https://gabrielledolan.com
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielledolan/
Keeping It Real with Jac and Ral:
https://open.spotify.com/show/5yIs5ncJGvJyXhI55Js0if

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Today we're joined by Gabrielle Dolan, storytelling expert and author of story intelligence. We talked about trust, personal stories, podcasting, and how AI can help storytelling without replacing your voice. Let's get into it. Thank you so much for joining me today. And for people discovering you for the first time, who are you and what are you up to today?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

So sis, who are you? Um my name is Gabrielle Dolan. Uh I'm I uh I'm from Melbourne, Australia, which you probably picked up with the accent. Um but I'm a storytelling expert. And what I mean by that is I teach people how to communicate through stories better. So um I left my corporate career um 20 plus years ago and teach people around the world how to communicate more effectively through stories. So that's that's predominantly what I do. I run workshops, I do keynotes at conferences, I've written, I've just published my eighth book, well, you know, six months ago, and I also run a pretty popular podcast called Keeping It Real with Jack and Ral. And um, I mentioned that because you said, What are you doing today? And we're about to record a whole bunch of podcast episodes today after this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

That's crazy. How many episodes do you usually record in a day?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

We normally try to go for about five. Uh so that they're short. We we keep we deliberately keep the episodes to about 25, 30 minutes because we think they're night by size, and we record them in person. So we drop one every Monday. So uh yeah, we would we try to do about five or six in one hit.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I do want to get into all the public speaking and storytelling skills that I'm sure you're very good at, but I do want to understand more what was the process like for you starting your own podcast and what is the outreach like for guests? If you could get us give us a little bit of an insight of what it's like, because I know there's a lot of people that watch these types of videos, and the first comment that I get is how do you get guests? How do you prove that you're credible in the industry? So, yeah, what would you tell those people?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

So uh podcasting's been an interesting journey for me. I probably started my own podcast probably about 10 years ago, and it was called Authentic Leadership, and it was literally interviewing senior leaders, CEOs that I thought were authentic. I made all the mistakes possible when it went doing that. Uh, you know, the audio was pretty average and I was totally inconsistent. I guess the reason I was um running the podcast is I wanted it just an opportunity to get closer to my clients. So the the how I got guests was normally my clients. I'd run in and do a storytelling workshop and I'd meet the CEO and I thought, oh, she's pretty cool, she seems authentic, that he seems authentic, and I'd invite them to come onto my podcast. So I found that that relatively easy, but of course I was um, you know, uh a slave to their diary, and it's pretty hard to get into their diary. I stopped that after about four or five years, and like I said, I I wasn't even overly concerned, the views or the likes or whatever, because it I wasn't doing it for that reason. And then a couple of years ago, a friend of mine who used to be a client, and then I mentored her, and then we became really good friends. She suggested that we do a podcast together. And I thought, yeah, like do it co-hosting a podcast, but could be really could be a lot of fun. And so we started that um two and a half years ago. And what I love about that is we think of subjects, we both research them. It's it's all around career and leadership uh advice. So she's she's a career coach, and I do what I do, so we're sort of bringing our skills together. It's a bit of a bit of life advice thrown in there too, but I just really enjoy it. I I love it. So um our metrics, we have a producer that comes in and um films it and edits it and and sort of manages it all for us. And our we keep growing, we sort of keep growing about 10% a month. So I think with podcasts, it's a gradual, gradual, gradual build. We don't really have any goals or targets for it. We just really enjoy doing it. And and we and we know, we know it sort of is good for our brand, and we know it we get clients because of it. But yeah, I I think the main thing now is I just I just really like doing it and trying to reach as many people as possible.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Do you have any sort of strategy behind it when it comes to the algorithm and actually helping the episode back up?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

We we sort of do. Um so we aga I guess it's through trial and error what we've known works. So um when we do the podcast and and we do it, we film it and we do it live so we can produce little short. What we've found, and this is deliberate, it's almost like it if you can get a controversial title in it, um, they seem to go really well. Like we did an episode on um the CV is dead, and that that seemed to be really controversial. Yeah, so trying to get controversial things like episodes or clips. Also, we've found, and because this is what we're focusing on, always trying to have the word career or work or leader, having that in the title seems to attract our target audience.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

And also, one thing that I find very interesting is that you're aware that it helps more leads and clients into your business. And I think the reason behind it might come from what you're an expert at, which is storytelling, because people want to feel connected with you and they want to feel connected with businesses that they're trusting, that they're giving money to. I want to know for you what the importance of storytelling really is.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

It's interesting you say that because in in my latest book I talk about when I talk about storytelling, of course, it's called story intelligence, but there's a whole chapter on um storytelling for social media, and and it was particularly like um, you know, influences or or on a podcast. I think, not I think, I know, because the research shows that we're in a massive um decline of trust. So there's a company called Edelman and they do a global trust report every year, and they've been doing it for 20 years, and and it's at the lowest it's ever been. So we don't trust people where there's a low trust in government, there's a low trust in employer, um, there's low trust in media. So, what what stories do, and the research shows this as well, what stories do is they build trust. If you share a story with me, I actually feel a stronger connection with you, the storyteller. And so we build trust. So I think the rise of influences and the rise of podcasting, like the video format, is if you do that and you combine it with stories, people trust that person. And because they've got low trust in everything else, I think sharing stories in a video format, you're just doing a video and putting it on LinkedIn or putting it on Instagram or in fact doing a podcast. I think sharing stories is really critical. And my focus is the most powerful stories you can share are your own personal stories. It's still related, you can still relate it to your message or your values, but they're the most powerful stories to share, but yet they're the most underutilized. People sort of are a little bit reluctant to do them. But um, yeah, but I see it influencers do that all the time, and I see it more and more in podcasting, people are sharing personal stories because it builds a connection with your audience.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

When it's so interesting that you talk about this because at least uh when I think about the creator economy, for example, if we look, let's say two or three years ago, things were a bit more polished. It was all about trying to look mainstream, and we kind of had lost the storytelling, raw content that's what YouTube was primarily. And I feel like now we're getting back into this, and it might have something to do with this massive amount of AI-generated content or polarized information in the world right now. And I I it's so interesting that you mentioned this because I've never thought about people becoming more skeptical. But uh, when it comes to the other side of things, do you think for a founder or a creator or a business leader, what do you think is the real cost of communicating only through facts, features, and corporate language?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Well, the real cost is people don't understand your message. So, you know, the the the my work is working with those business people to communicate more effectively through stories. Because if we're just communicating through data and logic, and and I'm not saying you don't need that, but when we've also when we're using a lot of jargon and acronyms and corporate speak, first of all, it's bland. It's it's you're sounding like everything else, you're sounding like a robot. Um, and people do not connect with it. So the real cost, the real missed opportunity when people are reluctant to share stories is that they're not connecting with their audience. Now, whether that be a podcaster to their audience or a CEO to their employees, or even just a leader to their team, they're missing the opportunity to not connect because the research shows that when you share a story, a well-told story that makes sense, that's relevant, that's succinct, and all that type of thing, people not only connect with your message, so they actually remember the message, but they connect with you, with the storyteller. When I run my workshop, storytelling workshops clearly teach people how to tell a story more effectively. And then I get them into small groups and share the story. Now, the reason I do that is it's two reasons. It's uh it's training 101. You've just learned a skill, so practice it. But the real reason I do it, they experience the power of it because the very first question I asked them after they shared their stories in their groups, I say, tell me what you liked about that process. And they will all they will all go, it was actually really enjoyable to hear other people's stories. I go, I feel like I know them better. And then I go, so do you feel like there's a bit of a stronger connection? And I go, absolutely, absolutely there's a stronger connection. And that's with one story. Now imagine, imagine you're sharing lots of these stories over time. Every single time you share a story, it strengthens the relationship. So that is the real missed opportunity when people are not sharing stories.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

It's also funny because I see a lot of people that I know in my personal life, and people say that like, oh, I don't have interesting stories to tell. So how do you work with that type of people? Do you have any sort of advice or like a strategy that you that you have come up with to help people?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Absolutely. I hear that every day. Every workshop I run, I will hear people go, but I don't have a really interesting story. So what I say to them is, I'm not when I talk about stories, I'm not talking about the most amazing you've climbed Mount Everest type stories or you've you've recovered from cancer type stories. These are not big stories, the most powerful stories you can share are sort of the day-to-day stories. The stories that you are almost thinking, but they're pretty boring. Why would anyone be interested in that? The reason they are most effective because they're most relatable. So it just, you know, even a story when you're a kid and growing up and your friend told you to steal a little chocolate bar and you did, and you like you really were scared and you regret it to this day. Stories like that really um provide insight to who you are. So they're everyone's got stories. Every single person's got stories. It's just they're dismissing them. They're going, oh, no one would be interested in that. And but they are the most interesting ones.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Do you think when you're um, you know, coming up with a storytelling technique or you're actually recording a video, you should end to some sort of parasocial relationship? What do you mean by that? If you're a content creator or business owner trying to stay consistent online, editing can easily become a full-time job. That's why VidPros exists. VidPros is a professional video editing service built specifically for creators. You get a dedicated human editor who learns your style, pacing, and workflow over time. You upload the footage and your editor handles everything: cuts, color baiting, sound design, thumbnail, and short form clips. We also offer unlimited revisions within your editing hours. You can try vidProils with a $100 try a week that includes 10 hours of editing. Go to vidprills.com to get started. Stop editing and start growing. That relationship that people have with influencers, celebrities, where people know everything about you, but you don't know them. They're strangers to you, but they feel connected to you somehow. Yeah, so they have a connection that is one-sided pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Of course it's one-sided because they're hearing everything from you and you're not hearing anything from them. So you see that a lot with um, you know, celebrities. Like people come up as if they know them, but of course the celebrity has not known them. I actually find that even when I do my podcast like so every week, I caught up with a client just this week, and I probably hadn't seen her for about two years. And she just goes, Oh, I feel like I talk to you every Monday morning when I listen to your podcast. And even I've got like one of my really, really good friends lives in Ireland. I hardly get to see her at all. And she will, you know, and we catch sort of catch up on have a um FaceTime chat once every six weeks or so. And she just says, I feel like I don't miss you at all because I feel like I'm having a conversation with you. I even respond to you in like talking back. So, but see, that's almost like shows the power of building the connection that you can build a really strong connection with your audience, and it is literally only one way. You you are the only one doing the talking or doing the content creation. They might make a comment every now and again, but 99.9% of them don't, but they still feel the connection, even though it's one way. So I think I think the fact that that happens shows the power of doing this, that it doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to be a two-way conversation for this to happen.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

It's about being consistent in someone else's life, which is insane. And it's so cool that we can do that now. And it's much more accessible, I would say, nowadays, because anyone can do this. Anyone can buy a camera and just start a podcast. The real beauty of it is in how things are more accessible now, so people just expect it to be more relatable to. So they expect to find people that are just like them, even though they're on the other side of the world. Who cares?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yes. Like I said, I made the mistake before in my pre first podcast of being totally inconsistent. It's weird how that keeps coming up as a really important thing that people are expecting, like I said, we drop a new episode every Monday, and it's like we have to do it. It's like it's expected. I've got a friend of mine who runs a catering business, and she's probably the last year or so sends out a newsletter every Friday, and she often has a story, and it and I really enjoy it. And then I can tell sometimes she's really busy because she'll go, I didn't have time to write this week, you know, the menus open, blah, blah, blah. And I feel a little bit disappointed that I haven't, you know, that she hasn't read it. Um, so part of me thinks, oh, you know, I really, I really value when the next Friday I get it, and I so I really value that. So, but there's something in this incon inconsistency. And isn't the stat you probably know this better than me, but most podcasts don't last more than seven episodes or something. Yeah because they like people start, people go, Oh, yeah, I could do this and find actually it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to be consistent.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

And yeah, I think creating content in general when it comes to YouTube, social media, people think it's just turning your camera on and uploading footage, and you're gonna make money. If you think about it, there's a lot of techniques and strategies that go behind it, and it's a lot of work to get something done. So that's one other thing. How do you think we can work so much and do the best that we can and try to come up with so many strategies but still remain relatable?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

So when I when I think of the content that we create for our podcast, um, you know, we we sort of have an overarching theme that we want to do. So and it is all around, you know, if basically career advice would be the overarching thing for it. I I often joke to my co-host Jack, who was like, you know, I thought after 10 episodes we'd run out of things to say, but we'd we've done 100 plus episodes, but we don't because as a content creator, you're constantly um taking in information and thinking of it as a yes or and yes or but, like, yes, I agree with this, so we should do something on this, or yes, I sort of agree, but I think times have changed and it's different. So you constantly, in my mind, as a content creator, as a thought leader, or whatever you want to talk about it, it's always an approach of yes and or yes but. Like, you know, for example, a really quick example. I saw a LinkedIn post the other day on the seven different generations in the workforce and the the what the way they like to be communicated to. And it was sort of saying, so it's really hard to communicate because there's now seven generations in the workforce. And I think it was Gen Z, the way they want to be communicated with is they they want they want the communication to be authentic and it can't just be words, it can't be action. And so I'm sort of looking at all that, go, yes, I agree, but what if we just communicated like we were communicating to Gen Z and actually communicated authentically and backed our words up with actions? That would cover every generation. So I'm sort of thinking, well, there's a podcast episode on how you communicate and like let's not over-complicate it by going, oh, there's so many different generations in the workforce. Everyone wants to be communicated in an authentic way. Everyone wants your words to be backed up by your actions. So why don't we just do that? So straight away I'm going, that's a LinkedIn post, but but it's also a podcast episode.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Do you think that also includes story intelligence? Because I really want to get into this and know more about what story intelligence means to you.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah. So look to me, story intelligence is how you deliberately and strategically use stories to communicate with clarity, as in people get it, but really to communicate in a way that connects and engages and potentially inspires your audience. So, you know, for I mean, the message I do, if you're if you're putting a message out there about the importance of, I don't know, work-life balance, you can have all the data you want about why work-life balance is important. But a story, a personal story on that, will will make that your message sticky. It's what people will connect with. They won't connect with the numbers. Logically, they go, oh, yeah, that will that logically makes sense. But work-life balance is hard. So how do you share a story about that? So, I mean, even when we're planning podcast episodes, we will go, oh, there is some research we can bring in or we can reference this article, but it's literally what stories can I share and what stories can Jack share? And it's just the stories that will make your message a lot come to life. So to me, concept of story intelligence and the the reason I called the book that, it's almost like emotional intelligence. It's sort of you gotta, you got, you do have to work at it a bit. Literally, how could I use a story to communicate this message better, to connect with the audience better? So they actually understand and remember and connect with the message. And then, of course, the book goes through how you actually tell a story well, because there is a very big difference between telling a story well and not well. And if you're not telling it effectively, people are just going, oh my, it's either too long or it's bragging or it's just not relevant to your message. So there's a real skill. I've spent my last 20 years teaching people the skill of of sharing stories effectively.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Who do you think is actually going to benefit the most from reading your book?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

It's a really good question. And I'm sort of gonna say everyone, and I know that's really broad, but it's the first book that I've taken it away from purely business. So for example, there's a whole there's a whole chapter in there on stories for speeches. If you have to give um, you know, a best man speech or a 21st speech or even a eulogy, like my father's eulogy is in there because it was just story after story. But it's definitely people that lead a team. So how do you communicate your team? It's definitely people who are doing any form of podcasting or so or content creation that is absolutely they would benefit from this. It's um people perhaps it's startups or entrepreneurs. So how do you get your message out there in a really noisy, crowded market? It's salespeople. You know, storytelling is the most powerful influencing skill. So how do you influence teachers, like even parents talking to your kids and or people going for jobs? If you if you're going if you're going through the job process, the job interview is a perfect way to share stories and people that need to do presentations. Whenever you're presenting information, you should be sharing stories in that. So that sort of um someone said to me once, so your audience is anyone that needs to communicate better. And I went, yeah. And they said, that's everyone. I go, yeah, I know. That's that's a pretty good, that's a pretty good market to have.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

So yeah, like you mentioned, everyone needs to communicate, and storytelling is so important, it's key. What do you think of AI now, which is growing so fast, and it's something that we might not even be keeping up with? It is affecting storytelling somehow. It's in a way helping, but it's also hurt again. Making it generic. So, what's your take on AI content, AI storytelling?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

So the reason I wrote my previous book uh five years ago, and I was convinced it was going to be my final book on storytelling because clearly there's only so much you can write on one subject. But a couple of years ago, I started increasingly having people ask me, Will AI replace storytelling? And the question actually horrified me because no, AI will not replace your storytelling. And then more and more people sort of said, Can you use AI to help with your storytelling? And my initial response was no, that would be cheating. It wouldn't be real, it wouldn't be authentic. Um, but as a as a so-called expert in storytelling, I thought, well, maybe I better experiment with this. And I did start to experiment with AI on in creating personal stories. And the reality is they were okay. They were pretty good. They surprised me that they were pretty good, but they were missing something. And what they were missing was it just didn't feel right. So yeah, so ironically, I wrote a book on that. So the the my the book the book is called Story Intelligence. So ultimately it's a book on storytelling, but the subtitle is The Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with AI. So you don't have to use AI to have really great story intelligence. But if you do use AI, you have to use it wisely. And in the book, I take you through the process of how you can almost use it as your storytelling coach by sort of saying, Hey, um, I need to I need to come up with a personal story on I know being courageous. Can you ask me questions? And you get AI to ask you questions, which will help you think of a story. The real where you have to be really careful then is AI will come back and go, Do you, you know, give me a few bullet points and I'll turn it into a story, which is good and very tempting and can feel very efficient, but you've got to make sure it's it's true and it sounds like you. So for example, it might come back and it will fill in the gaps, and it might go, oh, I was really excited when this when I got the opportunity. And you might go, I actually wasn't excited, I was absolutely terrified. Okay, so you change it. So you've got to make sure it's true, totally accurate, and also that the words, and I and I think this is relevant with AI, whether you're using stories or not, that the words it's coming up with are the words you would use. So it sounds like you. And if you're not doing that, you run the very real risk of people just thinking, I think this sounds like AI, and then you you start to lose credibility. And I think that's the real danger that's happening now. I think people are going, no, that's AI. I I'm not even reading, but uh you've lost a little credibility in my eyes because of it. So I think we I think we have to be wary of not using AI too much or not, you got to keep control of your voice. That's the main thing. Stay in control of your voice when you're using AI.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

And also from what you're saying, what I understand is AI might be good to help you with the structure of things if you're a bit messy, you know, you don't because I'm one of those people that I'm telling my story and then I think about another one and I want to start telling the next story, and yeah, it's a mess. But um, what the final goal is to be understood and be memorable. So that takes us to the final question that I have to you, which is if you were to give one advice to people in the industry, what should they start doing tomorrow to be memorable?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I would say think of the personal stories. Now I'm I'm using the word personal as in you can still use work-related stories, but think of the stories about you that reveal something about yourself and how you could share them in a relevant way. I'm not just saying just they're all these random stories. And that takes courage. It really takes courage and and there's a skill involved. So um, if you buy my book, I can give you the skill and the insights, but it will still take courage on your behalf to share it because especially if you're not used to sharing, um, revealing anything about yourself. And again, I'm not talking about your deepest, darkest secrets. I'm not talking about that. It could just be something about when you were growing up or or a fight you had with your kids or something like that. They're the most powerful stories you can share.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

That's true. Awesome. Thank you so much for doing this and for saying yes and being here and being so down because this is actually the second time we try recording. We had some issues and you were amazing about it, and you were a good sport. And if there's anything you'd like to promote, please feel free to do so right now.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah, well, I do I think if anyone's interested in in how they use storytelling, um, you know, my latest book is sort of it covers everything, so it's a good $20 invest. Um, I'm very active on LinkedIn, and um, if you want to check me out on my website, it's Gabrieldolan.com. Thank you so much. Oh, and of course, and of course, listen to my podcast because clearly you like podcasts, you're listening to this one. So um, yeah, keeping it real with Jack and Rao is my podcast.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

I'll leave it in the description too. Thank you so much. Right. People do not connect with corporate language, they connect with real stories that make a message stick. Like and subscribe and check out the rest of VitRill's Insider's podcast. I'll see you next time.