The Sunday Morning Hangover Part 2: Dealing with the Space Religion Left Behind

Welcome to Episode 2 part 2!

In the final installment of The Sunday Morning Hangover, we continue to discuss how to navigate the "what now" phase of religious deconstruction. I'll provide definitions, examples, scripture references and laughs (I MAY even cry during this one) as we leave our standard issued maps behind and continue our curiosity driven steps away from the alter!

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Ode2nick@hotmail.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

So we've discussed we've discussed uh kind of what now from the breaking away. We've discussed uh some of the fallout, and I didn't mean to just brush over fallout. I really hope you guys don't get the feeling that I did. Fallout fallout's a a big one. You know, we can we can come up with all these grand schemes in our head and we can ask ourselves the questions that we can ask. We can be honest with ourselves, but but when you approach that family member, you know, the parent who taught you this, the uh grandmother, grandfather, the the trusted whomever that that exposed you to this, I assure you that they see that in their mind as something that really strengthens the bond that they have with you. You know, going to a sibling. You know, maybe when you were kids, um your sibling disliked sitting in a pew as much as you did, and you guys were almost kind of comrades in that aspect. The follow can be a serious fear, and frankly it still is with me. Just gosh, within the last three or four days, had the conversation with my brother explaining, hey dude, my uh my podcast rolled out, it went live. I was hoping somebody, at least one person outside my house, would listen to it, and boy, I've got a handful of people that have downloaded it. However, I don't think you're gonna want to hit play on this one, brother, because this is what it's about. And all that was said was I understand that this is a step in the journey that you're on. And I won't read between the lines, um, because because it doesn't matter. I I didn't uh I didn't start deconstructing or recording a podcast to impress the people that I knew would think that I was crazy for doing this or a heretic. So we've discussed the fallout, we've discussed tradition. I'm not putting a bow on any of these because we're by no means done talking about it. I I dug I dug into before I I guess developed the balls or about the self-confidence. We'll go with balls. I was trying to figure out why am I struggling so much with the what other people are gonna think. And then the next logical thought was, well, I mean, as far back as I can remember, it was, you know, you're wearing your Sunday best, Nick. God forbid the you know, the bitty four pew's back make a comment about how, you know, we looked a little too disheveled at church, you've got to put your best best foot forward. It was programmed in me to to care, which is kind of contradictory to the vast majority of the Bible. Really the only person you're supposed to be worried about is Jesus, because that's how we're gonna get we're gonna get to spend eternity praising him and thanking him and all of that. What I found out in my search uh why this why I'm so hung up on this, and and I felt like, gosh, every example I could think as far back as I could think, it's been difficult for me to make decisions because of my fear of what other people would say. I kept stumbling upon a phrase that piqued my curiosity, so I looked more into it. That term is enmeshment. Again, we'll start with with definitions, and this is an easy one. Enmeshment, that's one word. It's definition, entanglement. That's it, also one word. And no, I promise I didn't look another saurus to get that to get that answer. I also did then look it up in a thesaurus, and uh interestingly enough, entanglement was not one of the words that was listed. Do it that what you will. So it got me looking more into enmeshment, what enmeshment is, and what I learned very quickly was that I know exactly what enmeshment is. And if you're listening to this, still listening to this, this this far into an episode, you clearly understand what this is about. You also know exactly what enmeshment is. Sometimes we don't have things named the same way as everyone else. So let me run through enmeshment real quick. Not that I need to dive much into entanglement, I think you guys can figure you can figure that one out. And again, I am gonna credit my audience with most likely being significantly more intelligent than I am. So if you're already rolling your eyes at this this idiot's gonna now go through enmeshment, bear with me. Remember, this podcast and sharing this is as much a step in my deconstruction as listening to it might be in yours. There are characteristics of enmeshment. It's kind of that kind of that checklist, hey, read this, and if you can say yes next to some or all of these, you're experiencing the consequences of enmeshment. So I was able to find this checklist. One of them was called characteristics of enmeshed families. One was called characteristics of enmeshed religion. And would you believe that of the about fourteen things listed on each list, there was only one difference between the two? I'm only going to read the one to you because it's obvious that that these are pretty much the same thing. So characteristics of an enmeshed religion. And keep track in your head here. Maybe if you if you're driving, you know, one finger on the steering wheel, well, both hands on the steering wheel, obviously, but you know what I'm saying. Keep track. Characteristics of an enmeshed family, characteristics of an enmeshed religion. Does it a lack boundaries? The second one, children are not encouraged to individuate and become emotionally independent. We're gonna get back to the word individual because clearly that's not something that uh that we've heard a lot. Next, an intrusive or needy quality to the relationship. That explains my religious upbringing to a T because it was more often than not it was both, but it was always one, at least one of them. Intrusive. I don't think we need to elaborate much on what intrusive aspect of religious education is, religious formation is, and needy. Intrusive or needy quality to the relationships. Oversharing or demands to know all about your life. I'll do I'll say that again without laughing. The next one requires oversharing or demands to know all about your life. Now, my mind just ran a hundred miles an hour into the confessional. And those of you that are are from a religion or have experience in a in a faith that does not have confession, I'm about to employ one of the deadly sins, and I am envious as hell. Um you want to talk about psychological damage, send a 13-year-old boy who discovered, boy, not only do I like girls, but God, it kind of kinda seems like I really do. Now put that person in a dark booth that smells like shit across a half inch screen from an old man and tell that 13 year old that if he doesn't tell this old man exactly what he's thinking to the dirtiest detail, then God's gonna know he withheld in that confessional and you're not gonna be forgiven. I think we could say that that is requiring oversharing, right? Next, you're expected to conform to family norms and traditions. It's that word again, we can't get away from it, tradition. Remember guys, because we've always done it that way. I was forced as a child to sit in confession and tell a priest everything, so damn it you will be too because I turned out just fine. Next, self expression is stifled. Self expression. Now self expression to me goes back into that being an individual. We're not supposed to be an individual, we're supposed to be a sheep. I'm actually going to touch on that here in a few minutes as well. The sheep, obviously sheep, flock, shepherd, this is all very, very, very overplayed in the Bible. But if you're part of a flock, that inherently means that you don't get to be an individual. So no, self-expression is stifled in religion and family. It's not acceptable to have opinions, beliefs, or ideas that differ from the families or religions. I'm really not going to elaborate much on that one. I'm beginning to feel that after I I say some of these, I should just build in a solid three to five seconds of silence for you guys to kind of let that echo back and forth between your ears for a little bit. You know, I I I wrote all these down thinking, hey, what a what a what a great thing to be able to share in this podcast. And as I'm as I'm reading them to you guys, I have goosebumps. I feel nauseous, I feel furious, but you know what I I I feel and and and I feel pride because despite that and I feel pride because just feeling those things reminds me that I have always felt those things, but I'm finally being an individual. I'm finally being curious and I'm finally saying no, enough. Fierce loyalty is expected. In the Bible, we're called to lay down our lives for this. We're referred to as soldiers for Christ. Yeah, I feel like anybody who who is, you know, in the military and would fall into the category of soldier, I know we don't typically f you know use that word, you know, oh yeah, you know, my my uncle's in the Marines. Well what does he do? He's a soldier. Not necessarily, but we all understand. If that is what you do, isn't there just that total understanding that it's inherently dangerous that you could die? And I save this one for last intentionally. And I'm gonna do my best not to choke up I'm gonna do my best not to choke up when I say it. Last one. Guilt and shame are used to maintain the status quo. Let's say it again. Guilt and shame are used to maintain the status quo. God forbid these people think for themselves. God forbid these people believe in themselves. Because frankly, if you know if they believe in themselves, that's less belief they have to put towards God. And we all know how dangerous somebody who asks questions and thinks for themselves is. If you were attempting to brainwash or indoctrinate somebody, a free thinker is your hardest mark. So let's go ahead at a very early age and just start serving a healthy dose of guilt and shame. I've previously mentioned my affinity for visuals. Oftentimes it's, you know, a scene from a movie or a visual that popped in my mind while reading a book, big on visual, and after years and years of therapy, I can actually tell you tell you why, but that doesn't matter. When we were talking in the first part of the episode about the what now, if I strip this away from me then what am I now? The image that I came up with, and my my wife will my my wife will probably be angry, I think it's called a sifter, maybe it's it's kinda like a strain or a colander, um, but they use it for baking. Confection confection anyway, you see him shake like powdered sugar and stuff on top of donuts or so I pictured my I pictured myself in one of those and you're shaking. And what I'm trying to do is get all of the religion and indoctrination and all of that and um and what's left is you could say it's a blank slate, and it is, and that's very that would be a very optimistic word to attach to it in the early stages of deconstruction. I certainly not have the mental faculties to latch onto that word. What I was left with was an extremely insecure man, an unsure man, a shame filled man, a guilty man. The image of the the the wobbly fawn, the brand new born fawn finally up on its legs, and we can all picture it, the shaky legs, and it's putting every ounce of effort it has into just not falling down, not collapsing, it's not even dreaming of taking that first step, much less eventually running. They're just hanging on for dear life, hoping that they can stay standing. I can tell you that the most liberating part of this process for me so far, and sharing my thoughts and experiences via this podcast is very new for me. My gut tells me this answer might actually change as as I'm already feeling I'm already feeling the effects of it. But up until the time that I'd started this podcast, the most liberating and the thing that I had celebrate the most, which interestingly enough was super confusing to me because it was such a foreign feeling, was the amount of self-confidence I gained during this process. Self-confidence wasn't a cornerstone of my upbringing. Um it wasn't a cornerstone of my early adult life, it wasn't a cornerstone in my life leading up to the up to my low to mid thirties. But self-confidence, and I'll tell you what, it is intoxicating. What an unbelievable feeling. Please do not interpret that as me being this cocksure, arrogant guy running around. That's not the case at all. But there's a huge difference between guilt, shame, and humility. I I suppose even the Bible would agree with that. When I started thinking about why self-confidence didn't exist, why insecurity was pivotal, why guilt and shame were daily meals. I began digging more into Bible verses and in preparation for this episode, and uh and and it hit me pretty quickly. Like I said earlier in this episode, if you ever want somebody to to walk away from their faith, hand them a Bible and offer no commentary. Leave them alone with their own thoughts, a notebook, a pen, and a Bible, and I will tell you nine out of ten people are not going to come back to you as a practicing Christian. My experience growing up with theology was a theology of self-deprecation. You're not enough, you're not good, you are you're damned until you receive salvation, you're you're you're damned, you're flawed, you were extremely imperfect. Didn't take a whole lot of digging in the Bible to come up with a couple really great verses on self-deprecation. Obviously, if you go to a an online search engine and type in deprecation chapter one verse one, it's it's not going to show up. However, we'll read between the lines. Self-deprecation. Like I said, you're not enough. Left alone, you're going to hell. And your sin that is damning you was simply being born. The part that really kind of confused me about that, you know, we we've mentioned, you know, the authors of the Bible talking out of both sides of their mouths. I've said it before, but if you read it like a book, not a reference book, it talks itself into so many circles, even if you can just get past the the inaccuracies, if you can get past the contradictions, because there are so many of them. There were a few things made crystal clear to me. I didn't have to dig long to find three excellent examples of how confusing and how out of both sides of the mouth this is. So we are created in God's image, and God is perfect. God the creator is perfect. First Peter chapter one verse nineteen Redeemed with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or sin. That's perfect, that's that's pure. So that's that's our creator. That was God. Perfect, unblemished. God is perfect. But now God created us. Aren't we lucky to have a perfect creator? Because you know, my mom and dad weren't perfect, yours weren't perfect, in fact, there's only ever been one example of perfection, and that is the creator. And it's a very achievable standard. We just have to be perfect, and it's it's it's been done. It's not like it's never been done, it's been done once. So God is perfect. God's our creator. We had a perfect creator. We're pretty damn fortunate, if you ask me. So we're created by God, perfect. We were created in God's image. Genesis, even earlier in the Bible, chapter one, verse twenty-six. Let us make man in our image after our likeness. Well, we've already established that God's perfect. God is our creator, first Peter. First chapter Genesis, we're made in his image. So far things are looking really up for humans. And this is where it takes a turn. Remember what I said, we we are damned just by being born. So Mark comes in. Mark chapter sixteen, verse sixteen. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that does not shall be damned. We're created by God who is perfect, we're created in his image, which is perfect, but if we die on day one, we're damned. It's it's can it's confusing. That's the way we've always done it. So I guess you can't say, well that doesn't make any sense. What if you were to ask well, mom, dad, you know, mister, fill in the blank, misses fill in the blank, father, pastor, whatever it is. Well, hold on, I'm confused. That doesn't make sense. How can all three of these things be true? They'll basically just say the uh well, you know, that's what the that's what the Bible says. Because they have no good answer. They have nothing behind that but fear and tradition. It became very apparent to me that looking back, I was taught from the word go that I was flawed, I was dirty, I was I was damned. I mean literally I was headed to eternal suffering, the the fiery pits just for being born. So trying to make sense of how an innocent, a newborn is damned. Just try trying to make sense of it. If you ask anybody um in religion, they'll tell you, obviously, original sin. Well the baby didn't sin. A man and a woman in a garden of all places in a desert um garden, of course, hasn't been discovered, but there's still time, right? It's only been a couple thousand years. So I did ask in one of my apologetics classes, well assuming that I will just blindly accept original sin, which of course I did because it's expected of me. As I got a little older, I was trying to find a way to challenge this without sounding like a heathen that was that was implying that he doesn't believe this. So I just asked, but you know, what is it about original sin? So I understand I didn't. I understand original sin. What were the other effects of original sin? Granted, there's a ton of them, but you know, my my apologetics in high school was I mean, honestly, it was kind of next level, and I promise you that is not a flex. The answer that I received when I said, Well, what else what else can I blame original sin for? And here's a fun word, um, core memory word. I have no idea why. I will never forget this word. Concupiscence. If you're not familiar with it, that's fine. You're in luck because I'm going to define it. Concupiscence, according to Webster's. Disordered desire for things forbidden by God, a result of original sin. Now the word forbidden, I'm assuming you guys are already drawing the jumping to the next conclusion here. The first thing I think of when I hear the word forbidden, it's followed by fruit. So we've got this forbidden fruit, and there are people that will tell you that it was not an apple, it was not a tree, it was not a snake, this is metaphor, you can't take it literally, however, you do have to take just about everything else literally, until you can tell me something that clearly goes against how I live, then we'll tell you that that was metaphorical. Either way, forbidden fruit. So let's go back to the definition. A disordered desire for things forbidden by God. So Adam and Eve, if we're we're gonna we're gonna play in their, we're gonna play within their their boundaries, okay? For the sake of the argument, Adam and Eve are real. They're in this real garden, there's a real tree, uh, and there's a real apple on it, and there's a real snake. Then nobody talks about that being, you know, a miracle. Granted, he created the entire planet, humans, blah blah blah. Eve came from a frickin' rib. God was so powerful he had already found some sort of anesthetic um that Adam didn't even feel or have any recovery side effects from a major surgery like that. Eve is then created from a bone. Um, again, we'll play along and say we get it. Adam and Eve had. No original sin. That the Bible is very clear about, and that every single teacher of the Bible is very clear about. Because remember, they were the first human creations, and they were identically created to God. Minus, of course, some of the intangibles, right? The all knowing and and and all good. Adam and Eve didn't suffer from concupiscence because that was a result of original sin, which means they did not have a desire for things forbidden. This is a layup. This jumped off of the notepad when I wrote it down. I probably do an entire episode just on this one Bible story. Adam and Eve are perfect. They don't want to sin like we do. Like we're just we're inherently bad. That's what we do. We wake up in the morning, we say, Yeah, bring on the sin. Adam and Eve didn't. They didn't have that. Remember, they were even naked and it didn't bother them. But for some reason, they were drawn and desired this forbidden thing. So Adam and Eve had no original sin, but they still had concupiscence. That seems to me like we never really had a chance. Here's this father who created life because he loved everything so much he had to share it with them. But they were set up to fail from the start. Again, all knowing. Well obviously you're gonna know that they're gonna take that frickin' apple. All powerful could have stopped them from taking that apple. All good would have stopped them to spare every future human being sin. But who would invent something that they know would fail? Like isn't that the point of creating something to make it in a way that it won't? I'm not a creator, I'm not an engineer. I dabble here and there on very basic building. I built a garage, I built a shed, I guess we'll call it, up at my land up north for all of my all my stuff. I call it my beats lab, I like to go in there and tinker. I've never done anything like it before. Although you'd think, with Jesus being a carpenter, that I would have been taught some mad carpentry skills growing up, but I wasn't. I built this shed before I cut my first board and before I put my first footing in, I sat down with a ruler and some graphing paper, and I started drawing. I spent probably fifty percent as much time designing this as I did building it, and the reason I did that was because I didn't want it to fail. I thought about as many things that could go wrong with it as I could. But I do know that if I were to just build this free standing on top of the ground, I might have some structural integrity issues. What does that look like? Cue of the Google search that shows me how to do a proper footing, and so on and so forth. The whole point of me building that, and we'll substitute creating for building right now. Not that I created a shed, I guess technically by definition you could say I did, but my first intention, my my primary goal with it was for it to serve an outstanding purpose for my family and I for years and years to come. Shortly after that came the thought, well, if it's gonna serve us for many years to come, I sure hope it doesn't fail. I should try to design it so that it doesn't fail. We're talking about a shed here. In fact, give me my green award here. It is built out of about 99% repurposed material. So there you have it. My fasteners were new, other than that everything was uh upcycled, we'll call it. But anyway, I made it hoping that it wouldn't fail. But we don't stop there. If I'm gonna make a shed with the hope that it collapses, that's a it's really kind of a sick concept, but there might be something to gain from it if there is a benefit for me and it collapsing. So let's say I I approach my wife and I say, honey, I'm gonna build this shed. It's gonna be awesome, I'm gonna tinker in it, and it's gonna be super cool, and it's gonna look like a log cabin. All those things are true by the way. But I would much rather hire a company to come in and build a garage. And she says, Well, I'm only gonna hire somebody to build a garage if yours doesn't work. Now we're gonna transfer back over to this creation story. So I'm going to go create this shed now, and I'm gonna make it like shit so that when it does collapse, I benefit by my wife saying, I told you so, here's the name of the contractor, and they'll be out shortly to build the professional and perfect garage you wanted. There's a lot of effort on my part, a lot of time, a lot of sweat equity, but I would willingly put that in to have the garage of my dreams. So God creates life in his image perfect because he wants them to praise him and make him happy, and uh arrogantly enough probably thought that that would somehow make him happy. However, if you're gonna create them to fail and give them the ticket to salvation, and that ticket to salvation makes you happier, I I I I feel I feel like we just find gaslighting. We have an understanding, at least a basic understanding now of enmeshment. We have an understanding of the theology of self-deprecation. You put yourself through that sifter. I still haven't Googled it to find out what it's called, and we'll call it a sifter. You guys know what the hell I'm talking about. I still think I think it's confection something. And what we're left with is this, in my case, insecure, unsure, wobbly legged fawn. Well, that insecure, unsure, wobbly legged fawn needs an identity now, because it's not I'm Nick the Catholic, now it's I'm Nick. But but what am I? Now that we've all accepted that we are a goopy blank slate of insecurity, self doubt, and shame, the next step is to accept it. And then the next step is to rebuild. Definitions of course are important to me. This will be the last definition I give in this episode. Identity. The distinguishing character or personality of an individual. I'm not going to repeat that quote. I'm just going to repeat the last word. Individual. Because we get to be that now. Like I I get to be that now. It still feels weird. It still feels like I've got that that brand new car, right? Still has that new car smell to it. I'm an individual. Like I'm I'm a what? Having never felt like an individual in the past, it's very foreign. And like a lot of things I like to search. I'm curious. I I like to ask. So why? It starts out with the what am I feeling? And then it goes to the well, why am I feeling that? A huge part of the struggle for me trying to figure out my individual identity. This is a byproduct of the indoctrination. This is a byproduct of enmeshment. And that's this this built-in, this inherent distrust of my own intuition, my own opinion. I can't think for myself because every time I do, I land my ass back in the confessional because I didn't run all of my decision making through God. The Bible doubles down on that and tells us that we can't trust ourselves. We have to go to God for the answers. Jeremiah 17 9. The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. I think the first logical question, of course, is well, but damn it, I thought we were created perfect. So not only is our heart deceitful, but it's beyond cure. Like I mean this was this was made, this came off the assembly line. Fucked. There's there's no way to fix this. Well, I've got some good news for you because there is a way to fix it. Just pray to Jesus. But anyway, I I did tell myself that I wasn't going to try to be that scorn sarcastic jerk about this. But maybe part of my identity is that I'm human and that I'm emotional and I get to feel that. I get to feel anger, I get to feel resentment. They're not things that I ought to hold on to, but I will identify them as they come up and I will bid them ado as they leave. I'm not going to slow them down so that I can stew on them, but I'm not going to deny them either. And this is the the God's will trap. You know, we've got this inherent distrust. We can't trust ourselves, we can't make good decisions without God. We are unable to do anything without God's guidance. And that's kind of the trap. This is God's will. We are taught to outsource every decision to God. Now, if you think back to when your religious formation started, for a lot of us it started before we can remember. There's obviously situations where people's indoctrination starts much later in life than that. But I think oftentimes it starts pretty darn early on in somebody's life. If we go to a child developmental side of this, outsourcing every decision to God at a young age we're taught to do this, that prevents the development of adult agency. That's something that is is is required for survival is the ability to make crucial, critical decisions in a split second, almost instinctually, to avoid to avoid death, to avoid danger, to avoid harm. But the God's will trap kind of robs us of that. Like, oh I guess I don't have the answer to that, but I know who does. So now I can just put the guard down a little bit. And this ultimately drops us into the the void, an identity identity void. If I'm nothing without this system, like even as a practicing Catholic with the strongest fire in me for Christ, I would admit to you that without Christ I was nothing. Again, I mean I'm not going to reread these Bible verses, but it's everywhere. Without him you're nothing. So that same human being is deconstructing years later. But that voice is in my head saying, Well now that the system's gone, who am I? So let's go back to something I said earlier with self identity. I'm Nick, and I'm a Catholic. Remember we discussed that that's not healthy. I'm Nick the Catholic. That's my identity. Okay, Catholic is in my name. That's identity. So if I remove that, I'm left with what? Well there there's a lot of things that you could be. Maybe it's not necessarily appropriate to just list all the things you feel, but I am a compassionate person. I'm very empathetic. I don't know if I hold more compassion or empathy for a group more than I hold for the people who've been indoctrinated their entire lives. Boy, there's some empathy there. Every one of us is on a different journey. Every one of us has a different story leading up to the moment right now when you're listening to me say this. Many were likely far worse than mine. Law of averages would say some weren't nearly as bad, and I'm putting that in air quotes because that's really a relative term. But the simple truth is that I I I get it. As much as I can, I get it. And as much as you can believe it, I understand you. So how's that for empathy? Compassion? Ambitious? I don't know. I bought a microphone and a laptop and some headphones, and I spend hours and hours a week writing my outlines and recording and putting myself out there. That's ambition, isn't it? And this all started with what? Curiosity. Here it is again. That is part of my identity. And I'm really proud of that. I get to say why and not just be slapped and told because that's what we've always believed or that's what we've always done, or smarter people than us said this Nick, so this is what we're doing. I don't have to do that anymore. And I don't have to accept that anymore. And I don't. So we'll go back to the logical question of then who in the heck am I? And that's what determines what your identity is, what you settle on. So we have to figure out what we stand for. I shared a few of mine, okay, and they're believe me, there are plenty in there that um are not so perfect. Um and the thing is even those even those less than sought after traits, part of my identity too. So we have to figure out what we stand for. And you, the listener, has to figure out what you stand for and what are your traits? I don't know you. Again, I I would love to hear from people. Uh if I put my podcast uploads together properly, I'm pretty sure that there's a way to contact me. Um I know on a couple of the platforms there there is. Either way, I I believe I've got my my personal email address on it. It's not an email address that I created for the show or or anything, it's actually the same email address that I've used since I was thirteen years old, which is why it's a hotmail account, so but I don't know you, and I would like to. But I do know a few things about you because you're hearing this. And that would mean that you are curious. That would mean that you are bold. That would mean that you're you're thirsty, right? Hungry, you're thirsty for for knowledge. You're strong. I remember when I when I hit play on my first deconstruction podcast, I felt naughty. I actually used that word in therapy once, and my my therapist and I identified that a grown ass man using the word naughty, and not in like a comical way, but that was the word that I kept coming back to and settling. I said, This is naughty. And I said, Boy, that sounded really childish, didn't it? Like who uses that word? Well kids do. Young kids. Perhaps around the age I was when my indoctrination became apparent. Maybe that was the boy from my podcast title, The Man of the Boy. Maybe that was the boy saying the worst thing he could think of at the time. That's naughty. That's naughty. Because that boy was still left way the hell back there. And the fact that you're willing to face this means you're brave. So I think we've put together Excuse me. I think we've put together a pretty damn good start to a list for you. Curious, bold, thirsty, strong, brave. Be damned if these aren't all awesome things. So if you're listening and you're thinking, what the hell? I'm this little bala goo, I'm this goopy blank slate, I'm this wobbly-legged fawn, sure you are. Sure you are, you absolutely are. But you're also all those other things seriously, strong, old phrase. And that's something that's all right. Now that we've discussed tradition and we've discussed enmeasurement, we've discussed identity, I would like to discuss what I think was the biggest part of my identity finding. We've already said that we went through our sifter. We've already said that we were wobbly legged, we've already started from scratch making our list of traits that's going to go towards our identity. We're going from one thing to the other. I promised you I wasn't going to read you another definition, and I'm not going to. But we're moving from one thing to another. We're transitioning from an authority based to a self-guidance. If we're going to transition away from our old way of thinking, our old way of living, and our old way of viewing the world, then we have to go from an authority-based identity process, kind of a self-guided one. So that's going to be the transitioning from authority to self. Earlier I made a reference to being lost in the woods, again, big on imagery. Up until the deconstruction process began, maybe even you know before the deconstruction, you know. The first question, that's that's the start of your process, and frankly, you could say that when you were eleven years old and you thought, what the hell? Why? Boy. Foreshadowing, that may have actually been the first deconstructive question you asked, and it's honesty. So for most of our lives we were given this map from authority. It was detailed. It was older than hell, tradition. It's been handed down from our fathers and our fathers' fathers and the whole lineage in the Bible all the way up to the Creator. Careful looking into lineage though, because depending on what book you read in the Bible, there are about eight different lineages for every notable character in that book. And most importantly that map was non negotiable. We were told where the paths that were safer on the map were, and we were told where say the cliffs were, but most importantly, it told us that we were never allowed to walk without a guide, be that guide the map or that guide the authority. From my experience, we're now diving into the hardest part of deconstruction, the hardest part for me, and that was firing the outside authorities and learning to trust the person in the mirror. I don't have an answer book anymore. I don't have the cliff notes on forming an identity or determining my morals. It's just me now. In many religious traditions, authority is the ultimate safety net. The Bible says how many times that you have a shepherd. So we've got the shepherd. In my case I had a priest, and other religions they have pastors, they're elders. If nothing else, there's the text, the Bible, and the message is clear. We're gonna go back to Jeremiah. Your own heart is deceptive. Don't trust your eyes, trust the map. It's not for us to ask why. The answer's there, look at the map, consult your authority, they'll get you squared away again. But without a deity or theology, how do we determine morality? I'm not gonna say that, you know, once you step away from religion that we turn into this feral group of immoral, you know, monsters. That's certainly not the case. But like I'd said, you know, during the during the enmeshment, the undoing of the entanglement, religion was tied to everything. This is where we're gonna go a bit away from Nick's personal experiences because this is such a defining step in this process, because these are the first steps, and I think it's really important to make the right steps. There are five widely accepted secular frameworks for morality. Now some of these are going to be newer, and some of these, as you'll soon find out, are very, very old. We've got utilitarianism. This is credited to Jeremy Bentham. So in this view, morality is a matter of math and and outcomes. It's an equation. It defines good as the greatest happiness for the greatest number. In each of these theories we'll talk about the logic behind it and the focus, and by focus I mean kind of the proof of the pudding, the results. So the logic in utilitarianism is that an action is moral if it minimizes suffering and maximizes well being. That seems so simple, doesn't it? An action is moral if it minimizes suffering and maximizes well being. The focus, so here's your results, the results of an action rather than the intent behind it. What is done is more important in this premise than why it's done. But the ultimate test is does it minimize suffering or negativity and maximize well being or positivity? The second widely accepted would be deontology, duty based ethics. This is credited to credited to Emmanuel Kant. This framework argues that morality is derived from pure reason, not a mathematician. Purely nuts and bolts. This brings in humanity. So the categorical imperative is you should act only according to the rules that you would want to become universal law. For example, if you wouldn't want lying to be universal law that everyone follows, then lying is objectively immoral. So I I think it's a super simple example, but we can plug in any word. I may feel benefit from having a new truck. So I'm gonna go steal a new truck. But I guess I don't want everybody to go out and steal a new truck. So perhaps I shouldn't go steal a new truck. The focus is that the moral duties and rules that apply to everyone, regardless of the consequences. The consequences, Nick you want a new truck, but since everybody is gonna follow what we just decided was best for the society, you don't get to go steal a new truck, Nick. Next we have the social contract theory. This perspective defines morality as a functional agreement between individuals to make social living possible. In a state of nature, life is chaotic. To survive, humans collectively agree to give up certain freedoms, like the freedom to steal, in exchange for security and cooperation. If everybody steals, we have chaos. Nothing that we have is. Safe because everybody's allowed to steal whatever they want. I do have the freedom to go steal right now. I'm gonna lose certain freedoms if I get caught doing it. We have the freedom to steal. But if everybody exercises that freedom, then we do not have security. We do not have safety. So if we all agree to give up the right to steal, then we have security. And what we also have because we all agreed is cooperation. Those are two extremely important things for a functional human, a functional society. Security and cooperation of the people in that group. I like the social contract theory. Now we're gonna go to the really old one. Virtue ethics. Now look past the word virtue simply because of all the times it's listed in the Bible. Like earlier when I told you to offer yourselves grace. Don't let its use in a book that hurt ruin what the word is. Virtue and Ethics, this is Aristotle. He argued that the goal of human life is to flourish and live well. To achieve this, a person must develop virtues, excellent character traits that become habitual through practice. So to plug this one into the previous question of well who am I? This approach would shift the focus from what should I do to what kind of person should I be? Morality is the practice of developing excellent character traits, like courage, honesty, by hitting the golden mean. Now not the golden rule, we'll get to that too, but the golden mean. The balance between deficiency and excess. If you can find that golden mean, then you will reach, according to Aristotle, human flourishing. So character development and personal excellence. To further illustrate this golden mean, you know, the balance between deficiency and excess, couple examples. Courage. That's the mean, the golden mean between cowardice and rashness. Cowardice being the deficiency, rashness being the excess, courage. Pretty smack dab in the middle. Generosity, so that's going to be the balance between the deficiency, stinginess, and the excess, extravagance. Right between the two, generous. You're willing to give, but you don't have to have everything. And then the last one, temperance, so that's the mean between insensibility, that's your deficiency, and self indulgence, which is the excess. Smack dab in the middle ish of insensibility and self indulgence, temperance. And the last one would be evolutionary and biological ethics. So this view argues that morality is actually a biological adaptation. For social species like humans, moral behaviors such as empathy, fairness, having these increase the chance of society's survival. Groups that cooperated outlived groups that were purely selfish. One of the examples that I came across was when they were talking about different indigenous tribes, because there were ones that were historically selfish. They were the ones that were not giving up certain freedoms for security and cooperation. They were stealing what they wanted. They were looting what they wanted, they were conquering what they wanted. But they didn't outlive the groups that practiced moral behaviors. Those tribes survived. Those tribes flourished because you didn't have all of the ego and all the pride. You had the people that were okay not being the hunters and gatherers. You had people that were okay fulfilling other needs for the group. And when everybody cooperated, they flourished. So I made a little chart on my computer, kind of a cheat sheet to the secular frameworks comparison. It lists them all sources, morality, and then and then the core question. And that core question is the super quick question. I'm gonna drop a link in my notes on this episode to a table that I made, which lists what we've just gone through framework-wise, kind of a quick reference. Again, I've discussed that I'm a visual learner. I like imagery. It was insane. There was there was not a test that you could throw at me that I would not pass if I had flashcards. So I made this because this is how I learn. I'll drop it in the in the notes on the episode. Framework, utilitarianism, the source of morality, are the outcomes and the well being. The core question does this cause the most good? Deontology, rational duty, core question. Would I want everyone to do this? I want to go steal a new truck. I don't really want everybody to steal a new truck, so I guess it's not moral for me to go steal that truck. Social contract, this was the mutual agreement. Does this help us live together? It's not about self-advancement, it's not about personal benefit, it is about the improvement of the group. And then virtue ethics. Is this what a good person does? Does a good person and we inherently know, does a good person go and steal a truck? A good person doesn't steal a truck, even if it's a really cool truck. I think the last secular concept, certainly the most widely known one, in fact some people might just consider it a bit of a cliche, the golden rule. I told you we were going to mention that. So even without divinity, many people default to the principle of reciprocity, and that is treat others as you'd like to be treated. So this is often seen as a logical realization that other people are just as real as you, and those people have the same capacity for pain and joy as you do. So we've covered breaking away, we've covered tradition, we've covered the fallout, we've covered enmeshment, we've covered identity, and we wrapped it up with kind of a boring one. Unfortunately, I ended with a boring one, but the previous ones were necessary to make any sense of it. Transitioning from authority to self-guidance. It's not as dry as you think, and and I think if you take a a few quiet moments to think about what that means, transitioning from what you were handed and fed this map to being wobbly legged and figuring it out. It's actually such a crucial step. Out of all the steps that I've taken so far in my deconstruction journey, while it wasn't the biggest, and it wasn't the one that gave me the most self-confidence. I feel like it was the one that made me the most sure that I'm not doing something wrong. Because that was so deeply ingrained in me that without this, you are bad. And this puts that to rest for me. I'm I'm not bad. I I'm absolutely not. You're not bad, even if you steal the truck, but don't steal the truck because that is bad. Um and you wouldn't want everybody stealing a truck. So that's going to wrap up this episode. I really appreciate you coming back. Um, I welcome you to reach out to me, let me know your thoughts, throw me some questions, tell me I'm an asshole. I don't care. I love interaction, and the hours that I've spent on this podcast is quiet time. I mean it's it's alone time. I got my earbuds in, I'm listening to whatever the hell I'm listening to. Human interaction is always good. I appreciate it. With that, thank you again for joining me. I hope that you tune in for my next episode. And in the meantime, let me just take your own.