Who Gets to Be “Gifted”? Access, Bias, and Twice/Thrice Exceptional Learners

 In this episode, Dr. Alejandra A. Fernandez-Morgado shares research-based insights on special education, gifted education, and creating more equitable opportunities for diverse learners. 

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Find all of Dr. Alejandra Fernandez Morgado’s work here

Book and quote mentioned in the podcast:

Quote by Paola Ramos: “Storytelling has always been a form of resistance for generations of Latinos. Some have used it to resist assimilation; others to resist change and preserve the past.”

Defectors by Paola Ramos

Resources for Teachers

• Supporting translanguaging in your classroom
• School-Wide Enrichment Model
• The Fairchild Challenge
• Testimonio
• More Testimonio
• Cultural sustaining/relevant/responsive practices
• Reimagining homework
• Equity in School–Parent Partnerships: Cultivating Community and Family Trust in Culturally Diverse Classrooms
• Including student voice in educational decisions

Research & Background

• FLDOE Plan B for Gifted
• Bushi, J., Aliaj, A., & Kristo, E. (2024). Homework and Academic Success: A Critical Appraisal of Research and Practices. Journal of Education and Human Development, 13(2), 57-69.
• Chávez-Moreno, L. C. (2024). Examining race in LatCrit: A systematic review of Latinx critical race theory in education. Review of Educational Research, 94(4), 501-538.
• DeNicolo, C. P., González, M., Morales, S., & Romaní, L. (2015). Teaching Through Testimonio: Accessing Community Cultural Wealth in School. Journal of Latinos and Education, 14(4), 228–243. https://doi.org/10.1080/15348431.2014.1000541
• Floyd, E. F. (2024). Supporting thrice exceptional gifted students. Teaching for High Potential, 4-5.
• Haller-Gryc, I. (2022). When Teachers Are the Gatekeepers of Gifted and Talented Programs: Potential Factors for English Learners' Underrepresentation and Possible Solutions. Journal of English Learner Education. (14)1.
• Novak, A. M. (2022). Not white saviors, but critical scholars: The need for gifted critical race theory. In Creating equitable services for the gifted: Protocols for identification, implementation, and evaluation (pp. 246-262). IGI Global Scientific Publishing.

Artwork and logo by The Interior Gaze

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Research to Practice Gap, a podcast that bridges the research to practice divide in education. Each month I sit down with a researcher in the field of education to translate research into practical, evidence-based strategies and activities you can use in your classroom right with right away. Today I have with me Dr. Alejandra A. Fernandez Morgado. She is a scholar, special educator, and advocate for equity in special and advanced education. A Cuban American educator, her work centers multicultural and marginalized learners, as well as the working conditions of Latinx teachers. She is currently an assistant professor of special education at the University of Minnesota, Duluth. She has taught across special education settings in K through 12 and beyond, prepares pre-service teachers at the university level, and contributes nationally to inclusive gifted education through leadership, editorial, and research roles. She is committed to dismantling systemic barriers and expanding access for underrepresented students and educators. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

You know, the imposter syndrome comes in during that moment. Like, are you talking about me? That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

So let's jump in. Okay. Okay. All right. In one or two sentences, what problem in education does your research aim to address? Access.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

The access that students who are underrepresented in advanced education that a demographic demographics that are also overrepresented in special education, that they have access to opportunities to be as successful as they want and to go into and navigate any space that they want. And so my focus has been on gifted and enrichment because of the parallels of the power dynamics between those educational microcosms and what it means in the society at large. So who is the 1% in control in society? And then who is the 2% that is allowed to be gifted? And so that's that's that's my spiel.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

I love that. And it's interesting because in episode one, I spoke with Dr. Baruch Tunsil and her research is on the other half of that, right? The overrepresentation in special education and culturally responsive practices. So it's really neat that this comes right after, because looking at that other side and who gets access to the highest quality public education. And what first drew you to this line of research? Was there a classroom moment that sparked it, something else?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

So it was, well, it was my own experience first, that I think probably was like this underlying reality that I that I was carrying with me. Uh, I was part of uh the like first class of the International Studies program in Sunset Elementary in Miami and then Carver Middle School in Coconut Grove. And so we were like taken aside. Like there were a group of us that were pulled aside and we were all from diverse backgrounds, and they wanted to test us for gifted. And then none of us passed, right? This was before Plan B existed. And by plan B, I mean the the this like the the other uh pathway to being gifted, where they, you know, they the the qualification, the benchmark is lowered in the state of Florida. Um, it takes into account, you know, being an, you know, multilingual person or a person from a lower socioeconomic background. Um, which we all were, right? We all had that. We all spoke like three languages. We didn't pass, and then we went on to graduate, top top five percent of our class, all of us. And then with my daughter, I lived it again. And I and that's where it really hit me, right? Like she was she was shy, she was quiet, and her intelligence wasn't validated for a while. And she was called things like moon child and space cadet, and her IQ was off the charts, right? But nobody validated that until they did, and then they didn't support the other part of her, right? She wasn't ever fully supported. And and it also, and then it I saw it as a resource teacher where I had this little boy. I mean, I had quite a few students who I knew, but it was this one child who really changed the game for me. Ultimately, he was in my resource room, he was reading at a second grade level and he was in kindergarten. And uh his peers in my class were reading at pre-primer levels. And then I kept pushing from kindergarten, like, hey, this this kid is gifted, you know? And I was told, no, no. And I remember the psychologist walking away, walking away with him, saying, I don't know why I'm testing this kid. And then walking back and saying, So, you know what? It turns out he's gifted. I was like, Really? Oh, I am so surprised. And I had to negotiate constantly, like, hey, just do this writing work that is way below the level that you're at. And I will let you work and research about planets. And so it was a constant negotiation. And then after that, the school district I was in, who has a real need for special education teachers, wouldn't let me expand into gifted. And I ended up expanding into gifted in another district. And that is when I also simultaneously came into this doctoral cohort, and that was my focus.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Wow. Well, I'm very grateful for you and teachers like you that recognize the kids who are gifted that don't meet what I think some gifted teachers consider to be gifted behavior because I I think that happens too often, where if a child does not behave like uh what we think of as a straight A student, then their intelligence is questioned also.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

They hired me in the in the new district that I was at um to diversify the gifted program. And I encountered a lot of resistance from teachers. They and not like all teachers, just the same same teachers. And they happened to also fit um, you know, the the narrative of being part of the 80-something percent white teachers and women. And they would tell me, no, I can't, I'm not gonna refer this person yet, because either they felt like their English wasn't good enough or they didn't feel their behavior was good enough. And by behavior, I mean like there were students who, yeah, they were hyper, but there were also students who were just quiet. And so there was a reluctance, unless you fit a certain mold, to refer those students. So it was really frustrating. It's uh it's a really frustrating problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, absolutely. We and we talked about that on the first episode too, how that cultural mismatch between a predominantly white female teacher workforce is so different than the very diverse student population. And so it's interesting to see how that affects not only overrepresentation in special education, but also underrepresentation and gifted education. And who should so who should care most about this researcher? Teachers, administrators, teacher educators, policymakers?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I mean, 75% of referrals are coming from teachers. So they're the gatekeepers. They are the first the first point of contact that can really identify a student's um strengths, their talents, and areas where they need to be supported. So teachers really need to, you know, understand this more. And I don't think, like as a system, we're really not training teachers to understand how intelligence manifests among different cultures, among students who are multilingual, among students who are twice or thrice exceptional, who may have a disability. We don't know how to like multitask all those things at the same time as a system. I think it's important for administrators to be really aware and create a culture that is culturally sustaining, culturally responsive, culturally relevant, and so that it has that trickle-down effect into their into the classrooms and teachers know how to look out for these things. How do I support the whole student? How do I support the student who is gifted but also seems to space out? How do I support the student who has a learning disability but is super intelligent and their verbal skills and their leadership skills?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Can you can you explain what you mean by twice or thrice exceptional?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Sure. So twice exceptional is a student who is, let's just say gifted, and also who has a disability, right? So they have those two exceptionalities. And then thrice exceptional is a student who is gifted, has a disability, and the the layer of being multilingual or multicultural is that third layer, which further marginalizes that student.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

And I imagine that additional intersection of being considered thrice exceptional possibly makes them more likely to be not only missed for gifted, but maybe completely misplaced into special education because of the disability and multilingualism or different race or ethnicity as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

So multilingual learners that we tend to label English language learner, English learner, they make up, and this is a obviously this is a growing demographic, they make up roughly about 12% of the student population. They are about 2% of gifted and advanced education. And then in certain categories of special education, they're about 45%, right? So they are disproportionately overrepresented in some areas of um special education and very underrepresented in advanced education and those opportunities. And I saw that. I saw it in the classroom. And I tried to create pathways for students who had IEPs and for students who were considered English language learners. And I got a lot of pushback from certain teachers, you know, and it was constantly this struggle to make people understand that speaking English really doesn't make you gifted, right? That means these kids are code switching, they're translanguaging, they're doing all these things.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

When I taught students with emotional and behavioral disorders, I had one student that I will never forget that extremely intelligent third grader had bounced around to multiple schools because of how complex both his mental health and behavioral needs were. He was never placed in gifted. And when I brought it up, it was sort of like, well, that's my job as the special education teacher to differentiate his work, to make it more challenging, with no experience as a gifted educator, and you know, the compounded issue of how many students and how many grade levels and whatever in my classroom, but was never, while I was his teacher, he was never given the chance to be tested for gifted because of his behaviors. He also uh spoke more than more than one language. So I I I think about him once I once we spoke the first time and I learned about your research because he just immediately is brought to mind. So I'm I'm going to ask for sort of a two-sided as a special education teacher who experiences this, what is one thing that they can do to try to, you know, educate their peers or try to get their students tested for gifted? How can they advocate? And then on the other side, as a gen ed teacher who may have gifted children in their classroom that don't meet the norm, how do they support them holistically?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

So I'm a big advocate for school-wide enrichment because what it does is it overcomes that potential bias of testing and teacher bias, you know, and um if you just have a school-wide enrichment program available to everybody, then you are allowing everybody to have access to these different programs. Um, last school district that I was in, I incorporated something called the Fair Child Challenge. It included science, it included, you know, math, reading, writing, art, cooking. And so there were these different ways that a student could demonstrate what they understood. And so they would collaborate together in these project, in this project-based learning opportunities. And the person who was strong in, let's say, organizing data would focus on that. And then we would have somebody who was just a great public speaker who would focus on that. And then we had someone who was a great artist. And so there were different ways of communicating what needed to be communicated. And I think that creating project-based learning opportunities where they, where students are collaborating, where they're allowing themselves, allowing their talents to be validated and to shine, I think can help. I know a lot of students in my class, like once I had created three pathways, nobody really knew who was gifted and who was not. And that is an another thing that's really important. You know, these labels, I had students who would skip out of their class saying, I'm going to my gifted class. And then like making the other students who stayed behind feel really bad about themselves. And so eliminating that and just, you know, having like a school-wide culture where everybody is gifted and talented, where everybody has a talent that can be shared is really important. I think the language that we use, I think how we present assignments is really important. You know, how we connect it to family life is also really important. These homework packets that students are still taking home, which are the most absurd thing. And so we have to connect what's happening in the classroom to what's happening in the home and validate those uh those cultures in the how in in the home. So I think as a general ed teacher, if you're incorporating things like testimonial work, I think that's something that you can incorporate into the classroom. And you can incorporate it at different at different levels. Um, if it's a young child, then it's an opportunity to talk to the child, hear how they verbally express themselves, talk to the family. You know, as they get older, they can validate where they're coming from through their own stories. And so there's different ways of approaching this. So project-based learning, narrative, storytelling, including the culture within the classroom, it's really important. So those are just different things. And as a special educator, we wear so many different hats all the time. And we have so much paperwork that we have to contend with. But I think back to that child that I had in my class who I still am in touch with. And he's going into he's going into high school soon. I got the chills. And it was a game, his family reaches out to me all the time. They're like, it was a game changer. So you have them finish their this tedious work and let them explore what they really like and and validate that. And I know that's not always easy because we have eyes on us all the time, but I'm thinking of your student also, because honestly, the students who are in EBD classrooms, that's at the heart of why I started this whole pathway. Because how many of them are gifted? And how frustrated must they be? Because their intelligence, their talents are not being validated whatsoever. And so I would act out, I would be mad, I would lash out, right? I mean, as you know me, you know I have a little bit of an attitude problem at times when things don't feel right and when they don't feel just. And so, how do those kids feel?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah. I did my dissertation on perceptions of students with EBD and their teachers on inclusion. And some of the most beautiful perceptions I got back from the students and also heartbreaking were their reflections on being in the EBD program through the years and saying things about the level of academic support that they got, you know, and just them being able to reflect and understand. There were three grade levels in that classroom. Of course, the teacher couldn't teach us. So this is what ended up happening. Yeah, that's those are all really wonderful tips. I want to go back to a couple of them. One, could you explain a little bit more about testimonial and how you would use that both in the classroom and to a connection to home?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

So it's actually something that I'm in the midst of expanding on gifted critical race theory with the author of gifted critical race theory, Dr. Novak. And so we're in the midst of incorporating that. And it hit me recently. You know, we've been going through that and we've been talking about it, about Lat Crit and the realities of what the Latino Latinx community are facing right now, because GT Crit was written during the in response to the Black Lives Matter movement and everything and the atrocities that were happening towards the Black community. And so it's incorporating more of what's happening to the Latinx community now. And so testimonial is almost like counter-story telling. You're telling your story. You who are telling your story. And so the publications that I'm involved in now, not everybody is an academia, not everybody is Dr. So-and-so. There are students, and their stories are equally important as anybody else's, and it should come from them. And so testimonial work is about amplifying our voices into a collective, getting louder together, but individually telling our stories as a form of resistance. And if you do this in your classroom, you have to really rethink how your assignments are going to be. You're going to look at your standards, and then you have to look at, but can you frame it in a way where they are able to reflect on their own experiences and share with you part of themselves and have that part validated? And also you get to know what kind of writers you have in the classroom. You get to know these strengths of these students. What are they doing when nobody's watching? Are they constantly translating for their families? Are they advocating for their families? Are they natural leaders that nobody really knows? Because in class they're quiet and they might be trying to not rock the boat, or they may be really, you know, just have a lot of energy because of everything that they're seeing happening. So that so testimonial work is that. Heal some of what they've experienced, share it with the world, and join a a powerful voice of people saying, this is not okay. This is not okay, and this is what should be, you know? And so um we can we can incorporate it at every level.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I think that's beautiful. A few things stuck out. One, you know, our the world, our country, whatever is so polarized. And I think when we listen to the stories of people, that's where the importance is, because it's very easy to get stuck ideologically in things that we believe in. But when we listen to the stories of people, I think that's really hard to refute and also so important for us to understand the people behind whatever ideology you believe in, right? I love too so much that understandably there's standards, there's things have to get done, but who are our students when nobody's watching? And what happens when we let them break the rules of education and just write whatever they want, however they want, about who they are. I've noticed with kids through the years related to art, when I've seen very strict art teachers or very strict art rules, there are a lot of kids who dislike art because for a variety of reasons, because it's not perfect, it didn't look like the teachers, they didn't follow the rules and they got in trouble. But the majority of the time when I have let my students or my own children just be and just express themselves with a mess of stuff in front of them, they love it. And it's something they can connect to. And that reminds me of what you're saying about testimonial, just letting people be who they are, express themselves how they want, and what we can learn from that and how freeing that can be. Uh, because it's, you know, of course, not just the students, but their entire families that are going through whatever they're going through, whether it's, you know, related to current policies and politics, or just the daily struggles of their life and what we can. Learn from them and how to help them and better serve them through that. So that's beautiful. That was the perfect definition of testimonial.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

And what you said, actually, giving your kids all these different means of expressing themselves, testimonial is also that. It's not just written. And so my third study in my dissertation was about visual testimonial. That can be captured through art, that can be captured through photographs. Testimonial can come about in different ways. It doesn't just have to be written. So a child who maybe has a learning disability or has dyslexia or has a physical difficulty maneuvering and writing, they can they can record themselves, they can speak, they can use different modes to communicate, but those are different forms of testimonial. And you're right. When I was writing all this, I was in the midst of reading Defectors by Paola Ramos. And there's a quote in there, you know, that I'm gonna slaughter in a second. So I'm sorry, Paola. But but it's like storytelling is something that Latinos have been doing for generations to resist simulation. Her book is about that. She went through the entire country before the election and she talked to Latinos who were supporting the current administration, not what they're doing right now, obviously, but the the idea that they had of the current administration. And I know that when I read it, I was a lot more understanding of why this was happening, right? And so when we understand each other, when when we have the opportunity to share our experiences and why we think the way we think and why we are the way we are, I think there's a there's certain, you know, bridges that are created and um a certain level of civility that we can have where we can communicate with one another and understand each other more.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

That's beautiful. I'm going to look up that book. I'm gonna jump back to one other thing. You mentioned homework. Some places require you to give homework as early as kindergarten. I guess what advice can you give if teachers have to give homework to make it both relevant and meaningful, but also not require teachers to do a whole lot of extra work? Because listen, I did that as a teacher because I felt like I had no capacity at the end of the day to do more than rip math pages out of a book, staple them together, and send them home, right? So with the enormous responsibility that teaching is, how can teachers make homework more meaningful? And I I want to say that I also did it.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

We're also just trying to get by. I've been using I've been using this text in my in my classroom. It's called Equity and School Parent Partnerships, Herrera et al. They talk about burying fossilized practices like homework. And I think that this entire chapter, which is a chapter three of the book, gives you different ways of re-envisioning homework. It gives you an example. Like in kindergarten, have parents, caregivers, or family members work with their students to find nursery rhymes, songs, and stories that align with the topic or the content of the week. Have the students or parent caregivers or family members share with the class. It talks about sending homework, like as far as the spelling words. What is that spelling word? Can you find that spelling word in your own language at home? And if you can, can you connect it with the spelling words that we have this week? They go through math, sending pictures of familiar objects to introduce shapes, numbers, colors, and other mathematical concepts. It's creating a bridge with the family. It's bringing the family's culture into the classroom. And so does it become a lot more difficult to grade? Yeah, because all of a sudden you have all these different ways. But did they complete the homework? That's it. Do you have to include your bias by judging if it's A, B, C, D, F work? Can you just give them a complete? Like they completed it, right? They did, they hit all the markers that you needed. Maybe some words were misspelled, but what was the point of the assignment? You have science. You can go into the community and they can talk to their family. How do they use plants culturally? What do they use plants for? I would have talked about my grandmother. My grandmother, when I had chicken pox, she made a whole bath with chamomile. And so it was the healing properties of chamomile and learning about chamomile. And so all those things can come into the classroom in very individualized ways that validate the family and validate their culture and changes what homework is. They don't know what they're doing with these homework packets. So make the homework packets authentic ways of learning and make it so that it enriches your classroom.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

What a beautiful way to revolutionize something that's so simple that is such a stressor for families. A lot of research shows that in elementary school, homework has no actual utility for improving academic scores. I'm just thinking, wow, if I had thought of those ideas, I would have loved that. Because do you think I loved grading math packets from multiple grade levels when they came home? Half the time I gave a completion grade because I couldn't add something else. And what a neat way to like knock out a whole bunch of things at once. You're connecting with families, you're building trust. You are learning about students and their families, and you are simplifying your homework process in one in one fell swoop. I don't have to add a whole bunch of things to do all of those things. Does that book go into secondary, like middle school and high school also? Yeah. Yeah, it does. Imagine that's maybe trickier, maybe more challenging with the amount of students you have and the complexity of the topics being taught. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

It actually starts with a secondary level. They start with biology, chemistry, and physics. Wow. Botany, earth science, literature, algebra, geometry. Like they go through the list and provide ideas. How do we change this so that it's not just this tedious work, right? But something that's meaningful. So you are building trust because ultimately we want to create classrooms where our parents are our allies and we are theirs. And we are each other's like partners throughout this process. And we're including our students in what is happening with them. And I think that also is really important. One of my co-authors also happens to be my husband. He talks about it.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Which I love because not the education background. But he is co-authoring academic papers with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

He is, and he is he was a gifted child who was not identified for a long time. But part of his story is he was kept back when he came from Nicaragua in fourth grade for two and a half years. All right. And he was identified for gifted in seventh. But if he would have been included in those meetings and in the conversations, he could have advocated for himself because his family was scared. They were, they were fleeing in all sorts of very difficult situations that were going on in their home countries. So they just wanted to survive. And we, how many families do we have that are surviving and just trying to like not kick up a lot of dirt, just get through it? So include student, including the student voices, uh, could is also really important. And it's not waiting until they're 14 and they have to sit in on the IAP meeting, but let's include their voices earlier on because they should have a say in what's happening to them. And we and that also lends itself into the classroom and creating that culture of trust and love, right? Love, carinho.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

So that's my spiel.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

I love that. A lot of really good stuff in there. So, what what questions remain unanswered for you? What are you looking at next?

SPEAKER_01 30:24

I want to address the school to prison pipeline and the overrepresentation of students of color in EBD classrooms, right? In that intersectionality of giftedness and EBD, SLD, OHI, SLI, and looking at that and to go into the juvenile system and see how many students actually are gifted in there as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

That's wonderful. Is there any other uh any other work you want us to know about or any other places we can find you, any other projects you're working on?

SPEAKER_01 31:01

So um my collective with Voces Valientes is um going to be coming out soon through the Journal of Advanced Academics. Um, I also published a systematic literature review there a few months ago that has to do with access, the access that students who are multilingual have to advanced education. I'm also working on a chapter with one of the authors, is Barouge. And so it's it's looking at what resistance looks like as an educator in South Florida and that intersectionality with urban education and special education and advanced education. So those things are kind of some are coming out already, some are under are being reviewed. I'm presenting at AERA, uh, and I and uh the NAGC has something coming up for uh their conference for opportunity and access as well. So all those areas people can reach out. Like I love to chat, whatever, however, I can help.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Well, thank you, Alejandra. This has been so, so lovely. I cannot wait for everyone to hear this. I hope a lot of people do, because this is just some really incredible stuff that I I always I think like, man, if I was still in the classroom, the ways that I could use some of this could be life-changing for my students and the school. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

No, thank you. And maybe, I mean, this is what you're doing, is so important. You're you're providing all these different avenues for folks to think about how we can do this. How can we do this in a way that's better for students and for teachers? And so, you know, I think that's great. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Thank you for listening to the research to practice gap. If this episode challenged your thinking or gave you something practical to try, share it with a fellow educator. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at the Research to PracticeGap. And subscribe anywhere you listen to your podcast so you never miss an episode. If you have any questions, feedback, or would like to be a patron on the podcast, you can reach out to us at research to practicepod at gmail.com. Research doesn't change classrooms. I don't have time, keep reflecting. Keep watching.