The Research to Practice Gap

Humanizing the Classroom: Restorative Practices & Student Voice

• Helen Flores • Season 1 • Episode 3

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 In this episode of The Research to Practice Gap, Dr. D’Annette Mullen of Boston University talks about disrupting disproportionate discipline in schools through art, restorative practices, relationship-building, and student voice. 

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“When there's no name for a problem, you can't solve it” - Kimberlé Crenshaw

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SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the Research to Practice Gap, a podcast that bridges the research to practice divide in education. Each month I sit down with a researcher in the field of education to translate research into practical, evidence-based strategies and activities you can use in your classroom right away. This episode, I am joined by Dr. Deanette Mullen. Dr. Dee is a lecturer in the special education program at Boston University Wheelock College of Education and Human Development. Her research is dedicated to the preparation of special educators, addressing discipline disproportionality, and integrating restorative practices in schools. Dr. Dee previously taught high school students with disabilities in New York City, where she also served as a liaison between district and city level special education services. She also has experience serving as a restorative practices facilitator. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01

I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02

Of course. To get us started off in one or two sentences, what problem in education does your research aim to address?

SPEAKER_00

So my research really aims to disrupt disproportionate discipline of black and brown students around the nation through naming the biases and then addressing them through restorative practices as one of the ways, for example. And then also using research to break barriers between researchers and practitioners through incorporating arts-based education research.

SPEAKER_02

What first drew you to this line of research? Was there a classroom moment that sparked it or something else? Ooh, child.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So I've experienced and been a witness to so many Black students being suspended and expelled through schooling. And as a teacher and an administrator, I just don't think that students should have experienced those types of violent acts as they go through like a space that they have to be at, right? And Bettina Love would call it spirit murdering, just from a place that they're required to attend. So that's the discipline part. As far as art goes, I was doing my dissertation and talking about it with my mom. And in that conversation, she pointed out that, yeah, I don't understand some of the things you're talking about, but I'm so proud of you, right? You're gonna be a PhD. And I knew from that point that I didn't want to reach such a high achievement and people in my community not understand what I was talking about. So my way of providing access was including AAVE or African American vernacular English in my dissertation, along with poems and different art that I created and ending it with the graphic novel vibe. And I thought to myself, how can I talk about accessibility and not be critical of my own lack of accessibility to my work? Um, and that's how really it all got started.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. The on the last episode, um, I spoke to my colleague Alejandra, and she uses testimonial in her work. And she has a collective of writers that include her husband, who is not in academia, and her daughter and sharing their experiences, and they've been published in research journals. And I think that's so cool, right? Because we're told when we're in school, this is your five-chapter dissertation and this is how you do it. And it's so inacceptable, even to a lot of students that enter into higher education.

SPEAKER_00

And so, who is this research aimed at? Definitely any stakeholder in education, I think all school stakeholders should care about the research. I think as our society continues to construct private prisons while many public schools are underfunded, it's imperative that we focus on where society is putting their resources. Um, so if we're not funding educators and ensuring children are safe, fed, included, and gaining social emotional skills, but we're investing in technologies like AI and teaching children to be responsive to a computer system as opposed to a human being, just thinking through the humanity, the empathy, the imagination that is starting to be taught out of children at earlier ages is something important for all of us to consider as education stakeholders. And I think it will push children out of childhood faster as well. And so everybody needs to be understanding these things and children can participate in a way because we're talking about art here, which can be done and participated in by by any age person. So I think it's just very important that everybody who's an educational stakeholder pay attention to this research.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome. Okay, I want to jump into the two things because we're moving into like the practical classroom application part of this. And so two things that stuck out to me that you've spoken about so far are restorative practices and art. You can start with whichever one you want. How can teachers implement this in their classroom?

SPEAKER_00

One thing they could try first before even implementing anything is building relationships with students. You can open the day with asking students how they are, is anything you need to get off your mind before the learning begins. Um I think that being an authentic human being and acknowledging others' humanity is the first step in the right direction. And then being honest with yourself and recognizing the students that you have biases towards or against through self-reflection would be a quick follow-up to that. Kimberly Crenshaw reminds us if you don't name the problem, you most likely will not address it. And so we have to start naming the pieces that we we aren't even bringing up to ourselves as we move through the school days. To get into restorative practices, you for you first have to restore self.

SPEAKER_02

Where could a teacher go or what could a teacher do to start reflecting on that in themselves?

SPEAKER_00

Thinking about ways to be restorative in the classroom and things that you can reach out and get. Um, there are some restorative practices workbooks that I've used in my work that would be pretty easy to like look up and order online. Doing things like having children come into the classroom and draw how they feel, or bringing things like Play-Doh into the room and asking them to create something that exemplifies what happened over their weekend or what they're feeling about the current administration and the happenings there. You can really incorporate art in any form that you want to, but it has to be intentional. And I think when we're in the classroom every day, sometimes we don't have a moment to think about, you know, how can I intentionally bring this thing in so that I could talk to students about this thing over here? We have to intentionally bring that in. And that looks like planning it before class. We talk about universal design for learning and the idea that, you know, everything should be accessible. But what does that even mean? And for a teacher every day in the classroom, it means how are you bringing back that imagination that that we've been teaching out of students through just teaching them curriculum? Yeah. Like how we bring back the fun in teaching and in learning.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Man, that's a big one. Recently I've seen a couple studies that have come out. Um, one talking about how this group of students is the first generation in the US that does not like out test or is not smarter than their parents because of technology in the schools. So that we have offloaded teaching into programs. So the students that struggle the most sit on a computer for intervention.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I'll have to look up which nonprofit foundation this was. We have now funneled $600 million, I think, into schools to increase accountability. And there have been no positive results.

SPEAKER_00

Don't even let me get on my soapbox pertaining to this. Like we're talking about teachers right now who have learned through writing, right? And that being completely changed to typing, which is not gonna stick to you as much because you're not using those motor skills. So you're not remembering the synapses aren't closing about that thing that you were supposed to learn because you're you're on a Chromebook. Now you're just touching pictures or matching things. And of course it's not gonna look the same. It's not gonna be the same smart as we had to experience. I think we've gotten really far away from the foundational things that have made us the human beings that we are, and we're moving more towards technological beings, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be if it's not coupled with recognizing humanity every day as opposed to looking onto a screen and engaging with that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I love how you talked about the intentionality too of including art and planning it. And because I don't think that teachers would be shocked to hear what we're talking about, right? They probably know it and feel it themselves. And I don't think they're opposed to going back to teaching to teaching, right? We just have so all these things like, oh, well, the kids behind, they have to do this program, they have to show minutes on whatever. So I love that you're talking about this intentionality with maybe starting the day with it. I had a professor that um, when I started my doc program, it was 2020. So, of course, COVID, it was May 2020. So we had COVID, we had Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, all of these things that were happening. And most of my professors were just business as usual. Like, open your computer, get on Zoom, don't turn off your camera. And one of my professors at the beginning of class opened it up and she's like, Are you guys okay? Like, you can turn off your camera, you can take a break. She's like, We fail to recognize at all levels of education that there is stuff outside of this. Students enter the room and we jump into learning because we have the guidelines that we need to meet. So I love this idea of like play-doh for a high schooler. How's how's it going?

SPEAKER_00

Or anybody, you know what, Helen? I even in my college courses, I infuse these things that I was using in K through 12 because so often we have forgotten how to just be. We're so used to what's the right answer for that, that we forgot how to be human and to imagine a different space. And through that imagining, create a space that's inclusive of everybody. Create a space that we also want to be a part of, where it's not just, oh yeah, I learned this and I have something to prove, but it is what can I learn from you through conversation. Um, I open all of my classes, no matter what level, with a restorative circle. So everybody sits in a circle and looks at each other and we are acknowledging who each other are. Like, is there anything that we want to share? And that is how we even start to look at current events and things like that. Nobody's back is to anybody else, and everybody is acknowledged in the space. And I don't care how big or small my class is, they have to get used to that with me. And usually, typically they're like, I've never had a professor that does this.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm like, great, let's start here. And so, how do you do that? They sit in a circle and then it's like an open floor, or do you have structured questions for them?

SPEAKER_00

So, in the beginning, I have structured questions where we're looking at who we are, what are our access points, like what kind of family did we come from? Did they center religion? Did they center gender? What were their thoughts? And it really starts the conversation with things that people are usually uncomfortable with sharing with each other. And it's the greatest thing ever. Because now that you've shared the most uncomfortable thing that you could share, we could talk about anything. And as the year goes on, students start bringing in their own thing that they want to talk about. And I allow them to have the floor to do that. In the beginning, nobody wants to talk, but then as the semester goes on, everybody has something to share. So then I have to start putting a time limit on how much time we can spend in this circle. And it's just beautiful to watch it authentically open up in that way. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

I have a follow-up question because I teach in the state of Florida. And how do you suggest you could form those bonds or broach those topics, or maybe different questions you can ask to still have that restorative circle without feeling like or actually going over boundaries that are being created?

SPEAKER_00

Coming from teaching in Florida, I have so much empathy for you being in that space and trying to teach things that matter. I will say, look for questions that will allow the students to create the connections themselves. Like if you aren't the one saying the thing, then you're not gonna get in trouble for it. If the students formulate this opinion or this thought themselves and they present it. So I would say just like look for questions that lead students to the conversation, but don't start the conversation, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

It does. And honestly, that's kind of how we create critical thinkers anyway. And I have a question here about like, are there specific grade levels, levels, content areas, or student populations where this is especially impactful? But from what I'm hearing, you say, really, everyone needs it. Doesn't matter who they are, how old they are, where they're from.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, all content, content areas and populations are welcome. We know that the majority of the teaching field is white middle class women. And knowing that classrooms are becoming more and more diverse, it's imperative that these educators, all educators engage in reflective practices and how to disrupt negative identity development of all children and especially black children, and just interrupt the disproportionate discipline cycle as well. Like, how do we acknowledge that you exist, you matter, and then move into the content? And for a lot of teachers, that would change how students respond to you as well.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. Because I'm thinking in a classroom where and I taught emotional behavioral disabilities, so the majority of my students were black, Hispanic, male students, right? Different than myself. I'm thinking how impactful that could be, and no matter where you teach, to start with a restorative circle, because then you're checking a whole bunch of boxes. You're learning about students without having to print off some formal survey about what they like or whatever it is. It goes deeper than just what's your favorite sport, what's your favorite color, whatever. And then you are creating these spaces where, like you're saying, they they don't develop negative identities. Can you speak a little bit more to that negative identity piece, Taurus?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, I think it's it's a learned thing that we as educators spend more time giving positive feedback to the students who are doing well and less time giving positive feedback to the students who are not doing so well in the spaces. And that's both academically and behaviorally. And a lot of times we find that if you're doing a behavioral assessment and things like that, students are doing this behavior to get attention. So, what if, you know, we gave attention to everyone? And for the students who are particularly like misbehaving more often than they are behaving, what are the little jobs that we can ensure that they're doing to help you in the classroom so that they feel seen, they feel acknowledged, right? Are they picking up papers whenever they're handed out? Are they ensuring that the bathroom pass sheet that's on the board is filled out correctly by every student who goes to the bathroom? Like, what are they doing? How are you making them feel important? Things as simple as that can change a student's trajectory in schools. And it seems like something really minor, but that is providing them sometimes the attention that they feel like they need from the adult in the room. Like, such and such is doing such a great job with ensuring that all students have this worksheet. Thank you so much for doing that. That could change everything. Um, and I think that we don't recognize how much those little things matter to children. Like they matter.

SPEAKER_02

And that's another good point about identifying the bias in ourselves. Are there students that I'm praising a ton and some that I'm praising not at all? Because we talk about catch them being good, right? And sometimes realistically, that is harder for some students than others. Yes. But everyone's doing something at some point during the day that is good. Yeah. And we talked about last episode too, it was about being twice exceptional and how teachers are the gatekeepers for gifted recommendations. They are also the gatekeepers for behavioral infractions and write-ups. Um, and that leads to that disproportionate discipline because behavior is also very, very subjective. You hit the nail on the head, Helen.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even expect anything different.

SPEAKER_02

So, my next question to go back a little bit to restorative practices. You sort of talked about like the universal design, starting it out. What about when we do make a mistake with a student? We yell at them, we send them to the principal's office. How can teachers engage in restorative practices after the fact?

SPEAKER_00

You know, in times that I have been sent out of the classroom for my attitude, um, I would say whenever I would return, there was no conversation about it ever. It's as simple as when work time is happening, like calling a student to the side and being like, you know, do you recognize like what happened or what do you feel like happened? Um, why do you think I sent you out of the classroom? That student responds, and then you tell them if if your reasoning matches with theirs, and then what that can look like moving forward. So how can we ensure that this doesn't happen again moving forward? Ask the student, what do you need to ensure that this is not a thing? And it's it's interesting because we say that students are human too and things like that, but then we don't acknowledge them as human beings by asking their opinion on a lot of these things. Even if you ask a seven-year-old, you know, what do you need to be successful in this class and not potentially get sent out again? They will tell you, oh, either I need to not be by my friends or to be my by my friends, or I need to have a fidget toy, a plaything uh during this time because I'm bored. They will tell you, and oftentimes we just don't engage in that conversation. And that is part of building the relationship, right? I can imagine if teachers would have had those conversations with me upon getting back in the classroom, that I wouldn't be mad at them anymore for sending me out of the classroom. But now when they don't have that conversation, I'm back in the classroom and I'm angry because you sent me out. Now I'm behind on my work. My friends are laughing at me, like you got sent out again. And like I don't even want to be in your space. So I'm gonna have more of an attitude now that I'm back in here, as opposed to you actually being the bigger person in the space and having the conversation with me. And I think it's something to say about the idea that we as adults a lot of times don't have the skills to have these conversations. And that's why social emotional learning is hard for us to teach the students. A lot of us don't even do it. So, you know, how do we expect them to practice those things if we are not being the exemplar of those things?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, even as a parent, I had to learn how to say sorry when I lost my cool because that was not something modeled to me, because it's I think a new, newish thing in parenting for us to apologize to our own children. You made me think of two things. I worked at a summer intensive behavioral modification thing. And when a kid went to time out, it was literally protocol when they came back in. It was preschoolers to say, like, welcome back to the group. I'm glad that you're back with us. Love it. Yeah. Because there is this, there is this truly counteraggression. Doesn't matter how old the child is. If someone is yelling at you or what you perceive as being rude to you or physically interacting with you, as adults, of course, we still get upset, even if it is a child. But then we have to, you know, regulate ourselves.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I've told students, I am angry with you right now, and this is why. Like, you know, just so you know, we're not just like go over this like it never happened. I'm angry. I'm frustrated.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, that's great because there's plant ignoring and then there's acknowledging what's going on. And I think we do sweep it under the rug. Another thing I was once told when I was an EBD teacher is stop asking why did you do that, and instead ask what happened. And that opened up like because I would see one second of one of my students smacking someone else. And if I only addressed that, I missed out on what occurred that got that student so upset that they felt like they had to smack the other student. That was a game changer for me, honestly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Cause they might not have seen it like that. And a lot of students, like at home, they don't have the same rules as they might at school. So they might not even see where it went wrong. Like at home, if my brother was talking trash, like, of course, I'm gonna punch him in the chest. Now, if I get to school and do that, that's problematic. But how would they know that if that's not an explicit thing that's said? Like we can say, Oh, we practice respect in this room, but if you're not talking about what respect looks like in the space, how would a student know? Yeah. And a lot of times I take it as like just, oh, that's a general rule, respect in my classroom. What does that look like to you though? Because how would a student know if they talk loud at home or like we interrupt each other in conversations at home, that in the classroom that is not what respect looks like, right? And so just being really explicit, um, yeah, I think I think being explicit about those rules that we have is is very important too, because we can't expect children to know that this thing that I expect here in the school space is different from the thing that it looks like at home.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I would often miss the part of what happened. Like the student next to him kept nudging him. And he said five times, stop, stop, stop, and he didn't, so he smacked him, right? I missed all of that because I was working with someone else, right?

SPEAKER_00

Because beyond that question, like what happened, which is so great because they might not even see it as like them hitting somebody or them, you know, um having some type of violence toward another student, but what happened and what did you need? What did you need when that happened? I needed them to stop repeating the same thing to me. And oftentimes students are having a hard time answering these questions too, because nobody ever talks to them about the thing. That they might they might have needed in that space. Right. So that's an important part too.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I think universal design for learning really starts with just asking our students that. Like I love that you brought that up because I teach pre-service teachers, right? And I think a lot of times they get overwhelmed with the idea of UDL because it's like, well, now I have to add wiggle seats and I have to add this and I have to add this. Maybe you don't need any of that. You can just ask your student, what do you need? I need a five-minute break every 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, good, great. Cool. Cool. Oh my gosh, Helen, yes, like you're spot on. Um, so I'm teaching a master's class right now, um, is called Inclusive Pedagogy Foundations. And I'm using Universal Design for Learning as like the underpinning thing throughout the whole course. It is UDL. And we talk about differentiation and how do we scaffold UDL is the idea that you're doing those things before you even know what's needed. That's the difference, right? That instead of looking at the things that you have after the fact and being like, how can I add this to it? Oh, I gotta add this thing. Because how can we ensure that all those things are already built into the space? And yeah, it makes it seem like less of a task when we do it that way, as opposed to now afterwards I learned that my students want this and that, like what should I do now? But how can we include everybody just in even in our own frame of mind? It might not be the most inclusive, but if I was thinking about how to get all students to participate in this project as opposed to the most high-level thinkers to participate, what does that look like? Are there scaffolded questions laid out there already? Is there a B level and an A level to it? The A level is like more so application. The B level is just you got this project completed and you did the thing. Here's what it looks like for more advanced students at the A level. What does it look like if we just started with that mind frame as opposed to, oh, this is a general education classroom and this is what they're expected to learn? I think things could look completely different and be as inclusive as we say we want them to be.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. And then whatever didn't work, then you can fix that and ask them, you know, I noticed this didn't work. I I really think this this is the point that's just driven home to me right now. We treat our students like they're not people. Ask them, what do you need? What's going on?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. They have an answer. And they might be unclear about that answer, but at least you know and they know that you care about what is needed for them to grow forward.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And that's like the most important relationship thing I I think that exists, that someone knows that you care about their perception, their ideas, what they need. Um, has your own thinking as a researcher or educator changed because of this work?

SPEAKER_00

I believe that the work is never finished as an educator and a learner. I believe that we should all always be both educators and learners. And the moment that you stop learning as an educator, you shouldn't be educating anymore. And once you get really good at something, I think that you should challenge that thing because there's always something more to learn about it. And uh that's the thing that thrills me about being an educator, that you can always like go back and edit the thing. Everything is iterative and you know, it's never finished. It's iterative because it just will change the way that it's presented or the process that you use to get there. What are you studying next? What questions do you still have? Oh my gosh, that's not something I can answer on this podcast. There are so many unanswered questions. I love this stuff. So ultimately, I'm getting into everything. One of the things I'm moving into most currently is uh just discipline studies as discipline is impacted by school technology policies. And so I'm looking into or looking at how zero tolerance coupled with uh technology challenges or policies are impacting students of color and impacting all students in a sense that we never ask students what they need when it comes to technology policies. And I think that's a very important thing to cover as we move through this field because we, being people who have not grown up with like our phones on us all the time, are now dealing with something that we have no idea how to make inclusive in a space. So of course, our first thing is we're uncomfortable with that. I'm tired of asking students to put their phone away. No phones. But for some students, they need their phones, they need them as their companion. They need them to communicate with people who make them feel safe in a space that might not always be safe to them is necessary. So I think um asking students those questions and and what just what feedback they might have to the people who are who are creating these policies is very important as we build this technology thing out.

SPEAKER_02

I love your focus on asking students because from like the research side, right? It's like, oh, well, qualitative research, it's not as generalizable, whatever it is, but even if it's never as generalizable, hearing student voice is so impactful. Yeah. And they don't get they don't get asked. My dissertation was asking middle school and high school students about their experiences in inclusion with an EVD label. Some really profound and incredible answers that a few of them told me. Like, no one's ever asked me about my experiences before. We're talking 18-year-olds. No one's ever asked you about, but that but that is that's standard. We don't experience so I love that you're doing that. And Dr. D, you have so many different things in your wheelhouse. Um where can we learn more about you and more about your work?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well, I have several things that are like out right now and more things that are in the pipeline and coming up. I'll tell you the things that are out. There's a a chapter in this book called Racism by Another Name: Black Students Overrepresentation and the Carceral State of Special Education. That's a book that um I have some stuff in. I have another chapter in a book, and it's called All About Relationships, Reimagining Classroom Dynamics to Foster Student Engagement. So a lot of this stuff is really formatted based from restorative practices. I submit a lot of things to the Rethinking Behavior Journal, which is open, open access, uh, so it's free for anybody to look up. And I have something, I have an article called The Gray Area, Realize Student Experiences at Schools. And then I have something called Becoming, the Evolution of Teachers Humanity. And there are several things in the pipeline in the works that are inclusive of my skull artistry, is what I call it. What is that?

SPEAKER_01

Just being a scholar and an artist simultaneously. Wow. Do you want to talk about your bookstore? Oh. At least you want to.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, um, because we've been working through some changes with it based on the climate that currently exists, it looks a little different right now, but um semicolon bookstore and gallery in Chicago. Me and my sister uh own and facilitate that space. Currently, we're working through what does it look like to facilitate that space when there are, you know, people who are walking around with guns and wanting us to know that they exist around it. The space has really been focused on authors of color. And so a lot of people of color come in to read books. And it just looks different right now because when people are of color are afraid to come outside and experience those things because of ICE or you know, general the general population just being violent towards them. That doesn't fare well for a space like this. So we're just trying to reimagine what semicolon looks like during this time. And it is online. Um, so you can go to semicolon shy and find the bookstore and order from there or you know, communicate with us on that. But yeah, I think we're just trying to figure out how to not only survive this space, but to thrive in it.

SPEAKER_02

I'll link to all of your articles that I can find and your bookstore.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, thank you so much, Dr. D. I appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. It's been great.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for listening to the Research to Practice Gap. If this episode challenged your thinking or gave you something practical to try, share it with a fellow educator. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at the Research to PracticeGap, and subscribe anywhere you listen to your podcasts so you never miss an episode. If you have any questions, feedback, or like to be featured on the podcast, you can reach out to us at research to practicepod at gmail.com. Research doesn't change classrooms, educators do. Until next time, keep reflecting, keep questioning, and keep bridging the gap.