The Research to Practice Gap
As a special educator, I struggled to find truly effective ways to support my students. I joined professional organizations, but didn’t have the time to sift through journals or navigate lengthy resource pages. I attended required professional development, yet it wasn’t always engaging—or useful.
Welcome to The Research to Practice Gap, a podcast created to bridge exactly that divide. Each month, I sit down with a researcher in the field of education to translate research into practical, evidence-based strategies and activities you can use in your classroom right away.
The Research to Practice Gap
The Pressure to Perform: Teaching Calm in High-Stakes Systems
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In this episode of The Research to Practice Gap, Dr. Helen Flores speaks with Tabitha Lim about the impact of high-stakes testing on student learning, stress, and well-being. Drawing from neuroscience, embodied cognition, and her experiences in both Malaysia and the United States, Tabitha shares practical strategies educators can use to help students regulate stress, improve memory and retrieval, and create calmer learning environments during high-pressure academic periods. The conversation explores the connection between emotions, physiology, and learning—and why supporting student well-being is essential for meaningful academic success.
Resources for Teachers:
Brain Targeted Teaching (by Dr. Mariale Hardiman)
Embodied Learning: How To Bring Movement Into the Classroom, and Why It Matters
Preparing Students for Assessments
Teaching About Stress and the Brain (Elementary)
Teaching About Stress and the Brain (Secondary)
You Aren’t at the Mercy of Your Emotions: Your Brain Creates Them
Research & Background:
The Psychological Toll of High Stakes Testing
Self Determination Theory (Deci & Ryan)
Third Grade Retention Laws and Effects
Heissel, J. A., Adam, E. K., Doleac, J. L., Figlio, D. N., & Meer, J. (2021). Testing, stress, and performance: How students respond physiologically to high-stakes testing.
Macedonia, M. (2019). Embodied learning: Why at school the mind needs the body. Frontiers in psychology, 10, 2098.
Artwork and logo by The Interior Gaze
Welcome to the Research to Practice Gap, a podcast that bridges the divide between research and classroom practice. I'm Dr. Helen Flores, and each episode I sit down with an expert whose work informs education and translate their insights into practical, evidence-based strategies you can use in your classroom right away. Today with me I have Dr. Tabitha Lim. Tabitha is an educator, researcher, and school leader passionate about transforming how we understand learning and well-being. She holds a Doctor of Education from Johns Hopkins University in Mind, Brain, and Teaching, where her research focused on building teacher capacity to support students' socio-emotional health and well-being in high-stakes examinations environments. She serves as the principal and director of curriculum and instruction at TLS International School in Kota da Mansara. With over a decade of teaching experience across the United States and Malaysia and state certifications in English language arts and ESL, she leads with a focus on developing both academic rigor and emotional well-being. Welcome. Thank you. Hi. Thanks for having me. It's awesome because you're in Malaysia right now. I am in Florida. So we are 12 hours apart, right? It's 9 p.m. there.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I'm on the opposite side of the world. I did, I will admit, I did have to look on a map to see where Malaysia is. Fair enough. Yeah. It's very small. But thank you so thank you so much for joining us. You're my first international guest, so that feels very cool to me. I am not sure people know much about Malaysia. Uh probably not. If there's something you want to ship, like sort of set the stage about Malaysia.
SPEAKER_01Malaysia is a very young country. Like we were only formed in 1957 after the British colonized us, and then in 1957 we became independent. At that time, there were three different branches of education, and they were race-based. So you have a Chinese school just for the Chinese immigrants who came from China, and the Indian Tamil schools for those immigrants who came from India, and then they they're called vernacular schools. Their instruction is in Chinese, Mandarin or Tamil. And then you have kind of like the elite people who have the non-set up schools, and they were taught in English using the British curriculum. When we gained independence, we had a public school system that was still taught in English, but there were some Malay subjects as well. So over time the public schools became more local and uh instruction changed to Malay, but we still retained those vernacular schools. So there was a there was this kind of divide between the races and the classes, and some schools are better than others, or if you spoke English at the time fluently, you were better educated than others and you would receive better opportunities. They also that's when they develop this exams. You take it when you're 12 years old and when you're 17. So when you're 12 years old, if you did really well, you can go on to any good schools you want, or you can continue with the public school system. Long time ago, like when my grandmother was a kid, they just had it until 12 years old because they didn't have high schools in Mandarin or Tamil anymore. So that was kind of a way to make sure certain classes or certain people did not receive a higher education. So if you did really well on that 12-year exam, then you get to go to high school, and then high school you sit for another exam, and that gets you into the prestigious universities in Malaysia and externally as well. So that system has persisted and you still have this high-stix exam for 17-year-olds, and it's still a little bit race-based. So that's like a whole other podcast I can talk about. But basically, if you did really well in that exam, then you can go to good universities. And then if not, there's this idea, of course, that oh, you're you're just gonna be uh a failure, or you know, you're not gonna earn as well as others. So that mentality has persisted throughout the years, and there's uh the corporationism values that immigrants brought from China where you have to do your best, be your best, and um what you do is a reflection of your family as well. So students have that pressure of I have to uh earn lots of money in the future so that my family won't starve. But also I must make sure my family is not shamed by what I'm doing. A lot of family pressure, not just like the uh nuclear family, but the cousins, uncles, aunts, you know. And then we also have that earning part of thing. So that's that's why high-stakes exams, especially in Malaysia, it's very stressful and so anxiety-inducing, not just because uh maybe you didn't sleep, but also because like your parents have all their whole-time dreams on you because maybe they didn't get the education that you got as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Yeah, because culturally that is very different here, right? As in in the US, it's a very individualistic society. So the stress for exams is typically just because it determines, you know, one person's future. You know, what college, how much money will I make? Wow. That's um that's an enormous amount of pressure for what is a child. A 17-year-old is a child. They are a child, yes, that's right.
SPEAKER_01And I'm thinking as well, like my grandparents didn't go to university. Um, and my my dad did, my mom didn't. Uh but yeah, my grandfather was always like, you have to speak English, you need to go to college and get a degree, if you can get a master's or a PhD, uh, that's even better. But you need to be in school at all times and learn English and speak English. So as a result of that, I don't really know how to imagine because of all these expectations of the past that have been inherited. Wow. Yeah. I remember when I was in primary school, they used to post our results on the classroom door outside so everyone can see who got the lowest marks, who was the first, and then you can compare it with different classes, and the parents at the time would be like, Oh, my daughter is here, my son is here. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00They still do that. Do you think there's going to be a change with this research in Malaysia? Or is it maybe slow? It's very entrenched in the cultural system. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The Asian and British uh tradition that we have inherited. Because my brother went to Cambridge and they also do the same thing. They put your results out all out for everyone to see. And the further down you go, the worse you are. You want to be on the top part of the hill. I always tell parents when their kid is not doing so well, like they got three B's, which is great to me. And they're very kind kids, they're really great, they talk to their friends, they're very eloquent. But the parents are just kind of like, Why this one C? I'm saying, but your son is so kind to his friend. They're like, Yeah, but that doesn't earn anything. I'm like, no, actually it does. Yeah. You know, but but a lot of them are still like, how come they're not getting this A or this mark still? And I've seen that become better over the years, but there's still this, you know, mentality. It's very hard to shake. So I feel like in Malaysia it's gonna take a while.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. How neat though, Tabitha, that you're a principal of a school because you have the ability to make a change at your school and make a change for the kids at your school and how they experience standardized testing and anxiety and stress around it.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully, I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_00All right. So to kick us off in one or two sentences, what problem in education does your research aim to address?
SPEAKER_01Um, so when I was doing my research at Hopkins, I was looking at my life journey as an educator uh and as a student as well. And a lot of my journey stems from uh exams, high-stix examinations. So my research was on high-stix examinations and how it impacts student well-being and figuring out a way to look at neuroscience and applying it to this problem of students not being freaking out whenever they are approaching a high-stakes exam.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is super timely, Tabitha, because right now it's testing season. What first drew you to this line of research? Was there a classroom moment that sparked it?
SPEAKER_01When I was sitting for my own high-stakes exams, right, I was incredibly stressed and I had all these physiological symptoms as well. Stomach aches, headaches, had debilitating migraines until I couldn't see. And I was like growing up after uh every exam. So actually, it's very funny because uh I decided at 17 after my high-stakes exams in Malaysia that I wanted to go to America to study because the exams there to me at the time did not seem as high stakes as it was in Malaysia or in the UK. So I did go to the US to learn more about education because I thought that there was a better capacity to explore studying and how to learn in the US and not have to think of an exam, like a big exam at the end of the year. But it's really funny now because I think the US is moving towards having more high-stakes exams. And I feel like that's that's really sad because the the merit of a US education as an outsider was that they did not have these high-stakes exams.
SPEAKER_00It's awesome, not only that you're my first international guest, but it is so neat to have the view of education from a different from a different lens. One thing I love about this podcast so far is that I've had educational researchers, I've had principals, I've had sociologists, and the collaboration of all of those different areas really helps inform education research so much better than from one lens. And so it is so interesting to hear your perspective from a different country and a different system because I think the way we improve education is by all of us globally sharing our best ideas and figuring out how to do this together. Yeah, definitely, for sure. Yeah. So who should care most about this research? Teachers, administrators, teacher educators, policymakers, and wife.
SPEAKER_01It's very useful for teachers, educators, uh, teacher prep people such as yourself, principals, like myself, policymakers. I would hope that maybe one day they would read about this a little bit more, but I feel like sometimes it's kind of pushed to the side because it doesn't seem as important or um bringing in any revenue of the sort. So right now I wrote the research for principals, uh, teachers, and any kind of teacher educators who want to improve how teachers teach and how students learn.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful. So for listeners who aren't familiar with this line of research, what are two to three key findings or important facts?
SPEAKER_01So when I was doing my research, I found that students in high-stakes exam environments experience both psychological and physical stress. So a lot of people think, okay, you have the usual stomach aches and headaches, and that's maybe because you didn't sleep well or you didn't eat too well because you're so nervous for an exam. But actually, through my research, I found that the preparing for the exam itself and sitting for the exam causes these psychological, uh physiological stress. So we always think about stress in a non-physical way. Stress is an abstract thing, but we sometimes fail to see the physical signs of that stress, especially when it comes to exams. So uh in high-achieving cultures, the stress is often normalized. So of course you have to be stressed, and of course you might have a stomachache. It's probably because you didn't sleep and because you need to do really well for the exam. If you don't have this kind of stress, especially in the Malaysian culture, some people might think that you're too chill or you're you didn't study enough, and maybe you're not doing as well as your other friends. So neuroscience shows that chronic stress, especially when it translates into a physical stress, reduces your working memory and the ability to retrieve information. It's kind of like a duh thing that, of course, if you didn't sleep well, you probably can't remember much. But it's actually a very important factor to think about uh and something that teachers know but they don't understand why. Learning about the why of it or the neuroscience of it uh helps teachers increase students' motivation and helps them improve on their intrinsic motivation. I also learned that uh there is a growing work in neuroscience showing that learning is embodied. So the brain and body are not separate. Uh, when students' states directly influence how they think and learn. So when students are stressed physically and emotionally, it affects their attention, memory, and performance. Students are often aware of their stress, but the systems around them do not adequately support them. When you understand that learning is embodied, that thinking has to shift and change instead. So uh when teachers care about well-being, they are do not contribute too much to pressuring their students to do well, and they can change the way they prepare students for these high-six exams or even just for their lessons. So this aligns with ideas from uh Dr. Lisa Feltman Barrett on how emotions and bodily states are constructed and influence your cognition.
SPEAKER_00That's so interesting. Yeah, because I think about the prep that we do in the US for standardized testing. I only ever worked elementary school, so I can't speak to older ages, but uh even with my my son right now, we get an email, you know, the night before, make sure to have a good night's sleep and eat a good breakfast. But I imagine that's not super helpful advice if someone is so stressed out that they can't go to sleep early and eat a good breakfast. So, what can teachers do or what can schools do to help with this?
SPEAKER_01So I developed a kind of training program that I'm trialing at the moment. But the simplest ways that we have improved and um on reducing student stress is by changing the strategies that we use in the classrooms. Coming into the classroom, the traditional Asian way, and I think I used to see this in the US as well. Come in, we maybe do a bit of a warm-up, and everyone take out your books. By the time you reach that instruction, it's very stress-inducing for those students who are already anxious or the ones who did not get a lot of good sleep. So I think rethinking that strategy into okay, how is everybody doing today? I think elementary teachers do this really well. They have the emotions chart, how are you feeling today? But by the time you reach the teenage years, they're thinking, I don't want to ask teenagers how they feel, but I think we need to rethink that as secondary school teachers or um high school teachers, and start with like, okay, how are you actually feeling? And instead of saying, fine, you know, asking more probing questions, like who got eight hours of sleep last night, who got 12, and the teacher also has to be a little bit vulnerable and say, Oh, I only got five hours of sleep because I was also worried about your test today. So starting uh out with just asking them about themselves in this way helps the teacher's bond and also helps the teacher see who is stressed and would need some additional help. So if uh we have five students who are really stressed out, the teacher would go in and say, Okay, let's do a bit of breath work. Okay, let's just breathe in and out, let's just keep it simple so that students can remember this is a simple step that my teacher has taught me how to do. And it seems very obvious, and it seems very like, is this really something we we should study about? But a lot of teachers don't do this, and a lot of students don't know this as well. Students, most of the time, they don't know how to study, but even more so, they don't know how to regulate their emotions. So it's up to the teacher to give these small, attainable, and memorable ways to calm the students down and give them a safe space to uh be vulnerable and tell the teacher, actually, I don't think I can sit for my exam today because I I just feel like I want to grow up. And the school also should uh steps in and steps in and they get to say, okay, um, do you want to take this half an hour later? Or do you need to sit down alone somewhere? Do you need to do something else instead with your hands? Like um, we have these like stress balls or knit knitting corners. Yeah, just something you know that you they can do that can uh take away focus from their exams for a short while so that when their systems are all calm, they feel good, they can go back and do this right now. So those are very, it seems like obvious steps, but they really have been very helpful with some of the students that I've done it with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's that's great. We can't always delay a test, right? The testing time starts at this time, it ends at this time, it's this day, and that's it, unless you're abset, there's no makeup. But I love that idea of doing something else with their hands. I, as a teacher, since I was special education, they had to take the same tests. I wasn't as anxious of a person about them because I knew we were, we might have a good day, we might have a bad day. Me putting all of my energy into those tests was not going to be productive for anyone. But I remember being in school even and observing other teachers, and it's a very rush, rush, rush. Make sure on school at times so we can all use the bathroom, so we can get our sip of water and rush to the testing room. Because at first, when you were talking, I'm like, oh yeah, this all sounds like like like you were saying, obviously, but I I think you're right. I don't think we do it. And in the US, standardized testing is so high stakes, not only for the kids, but also for teachers in schools, because it affects evaluations and school grades as well. So yeah, I don't think I slept well, even though it wasn't high, high priority. I didn't sleep well the night before my kids tested. Um, and now I have pre-service teachers working on their Florida teacher certification exams. And my students have shared with me, I feel prepared for the test, but I'm walking into the room and I'm failing. And so I started asking them why. If you know the content and you're passing practice exams, and they'll tell me things like, oh, well, this one person was tapping their pencil the whole time next to me and I couldn't focus. I got one question wrong and my mind went blank for the rest of the test. So we started doing mindfulness and breathing and talking about that in class, but it's something that seems so simple, but I hadn't even considered until this semester when I was trying to really get at the core of why my students are not passing their exams. And I don't think we do it well, maybe in any level. So those are great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it's true. As adults as well, uh, maybe it's a cultural thing. I'm a millennial and a millennial who grew up in Asia. So it's very like if you have an emotion, you need to keep quiet and keep it inside because nobody has time for this. Um, I really like the Gen Z people now because they're always like, wait, we need to chill or we need to do these certain steps because we need to take care of our well-being. And I'm like, that seems like a waste of time, but actually, no, it's true. It's not a waste of time. We have to reframe our thinking and and insert these sort of short bits so that they can succeed a little bit better.
SPEAKER_00I love that it helps us reframe. I think it's a positive shift towards knowing ourselves and knowing what we need first, because it does seem like a waste of time when there's so much stuff happening in front of us, but it's not because it could, you know, ruin the whole day if we don't take care of that first. So that's a really good point. Um, do you have any other concrete examples of how you've seen these strategies done really well?
SPEAKER_01Um, concrete examples would be starting a lesson by asking students to write down three things they remember from the previous lesson. And this is taught in a lot of teacher prep as well. But I I I found through uh my experience of supporting teachers over the past three years, they do this really well at the beginning, at the start of the term. And then once they need to catch up on the syllabus or they think that they have a pretty good rapport with students, they stop doing this until they think, oh wait, they aren't remembering very much, so I need to do this again. So a key thing would be the consistency of any of the strategy that you're doing to help the students. So activating prior knowledge is one of the best ways to help them with retaining information, especially for a high-stakes exam. And also before exams, using short, low-stakes quizzes to strengthen retrieval. In the US, I think they do this really well. There's lots of pop quizzes, lots of short uh little assignments. In places like Malaysia, there's not a lot of these pop quizzes or short little assignments to strengthen your retrieval. And also another kind of obvious thing is to break instructions into smaller steps to avoid overwhelming students. So getting the students excited about the content, having them attach that feeling, but also breaking instructions into smaller steps or breaking whatever content I'm doing into smaller steps could help them do better when they reach that high. Six exams. During higher pressure periods, um, I would also avoid stacking multiple deadlines unnecessarily because they are even more anxious and stressed out nearer to the exam. So at that time when a lot of teachers are like, oh, we need to do units one to five, maybe at that time a better thing to do would be to slow it down and think, okay, let's just focus on unit three, because most of the students didn't do too well in that. So that the teach so that students they're more prepped for the exam, then they don't be too overwhelmed by the time they reach the exam. Small moments that regulate students' physical states also help, such as pausing briefly or having a slower pace from the teacher. This also supports learning because, again, cognition is influenced by your physiological state. So if I'm super rushed talking to my students, I'm actually causing more of the stress or anxiety sometimes. Having a teacher who's very aware of their delivery and their emotions really does influence the uh students' emotions and well-being, especially in a high-stakes environment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that makes sense. I know the end of the year is crunch time. It's like, okay, we're gonna review everything that we did this whole year. So breaking it up makes more sense and that consistency throughout the year. So it doesn't become this thing that you forgot from six months ago, but something that you've been working towards. Are there grade levels, content areas, or student populations where this research is especially impactful?
SPEAKER_01I would say it would be impactful for all ages because understanding or setting the groundwork for how students think about their emotional well-being, especially in when you study earlier and they're more aware of their emotions and how to regulate them, helps as they grow and become teenagers in the future. If you can set that foundation at a lower grade and then slowly adapt it as students age, that would help the most even, even uh as an adult, I feel like I learn new things about my emotions and how to regulate it as when I'm in a high sticks environment. It's a continuous learning type of thing. And there's lots of different research uh recently on embodied cognition. Uh Lisa Felman Barrett and um Imordino Young, Dr. Marielle Hardiman, who does the brain-targeted teaching method as well, and she's inputting more emotional resilience and regulation stuff. So in the world of any case to embodied cognition and stress in high-sex environment, it's really starting to come up now.
SPEAKER_00There's always more we can learn. But I I'm glad there's attention to this in the US in terms of standardized testing. Recently there's been a lot of scrutiny around it because in the US, we're finding that students are not scoring as high as generations before because of technology use in the classroom, over-reliance on these packaged computerized intervention programs that don't actually seem to be doing a whole lot. There's the lawsuits against some of these companies. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes in the next few years. With COVID here in the US too, a lot of schools got rid of SAT requirements and the research around how that doesn't actually show if someone is ready for college or not, the way that it has been packaged and promoted to do. So it will be really interesting to see where this takes. Um you answered this a little bit just now with like how you think about emotions and high-stakes testing. Any other way that you want to talk about how your own thinking as a researcher or educator has changed because of this work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, the way to look at stress before I started my research was like this giant cloud, uh, dark cloud that hangs over every student's head or every teacher's head. And so we saw stress as kind of like this monster thing that would plague all my students forever and ever, because nobody's ever going to take away high-stakes testing. Um, because they need a they need a measurable way to figure out if a student is doing well or not. But after my research, I thought, okay, stress is beneficial sometimes because we need stress to survive, or you need some stress. Uh, some students use stress as a kind of intrinsic motivation to do well, to do better. But it doesn't have to be so scary. You just need to understand it a little bit more. And just just learning about your amygdala, your prefrontal cortex, and how all the little bits in your brain work. When you understand what is going on in your brain, it kind of tells you this is normal, it's okay to have stress. And I know what's triggering this sort of stress physiologically in my brain, but I have a way to deal with it. It's not something scary and abstract, it's something that I can pinpoint. So after my research, I thought, okay, this is this is something that we can deal with. And we need to pay attention to it so that all the learning, all the good work that we're trying to do in the classroom gets to their students' brains and is retained there until they sit for the exams or until they need to use it in their work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's super interesting too. This direct teaching of this is the part of your brain that's doing this right now. It's a natural response. And I think that in and of itself could be a very powerful tool for acknowledging you're not the only one that feels like this. There's a lot of us right now, maybe all of us, like you were saying, teachers too, that are feeling this way. Think is there anything in there that you want to add to the conversation?
SPEAKER_01I think for pre-service teachers, it's also uh important to think about uh teachers' context before they come into teaching or how they were taught themselves and how it affects their teaching. I think uh some form of understanding of why teachers teach the way they do or how they they feel about teaching is important before they start.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, probably in every episode, if not most of them, that has been something that my guests have talked about, specifically in relation to social emotional learning and trauma. And so this makes sense too, because I imagine considering the way that you feel about the exams that you're giving and your emotional state, understanding that is very important to getting your students ready for an exam and how you felt going through those exams. It's uh it's interesting hearing you talking about growing up in Malaysia and the exams and how you felt. And then sort of my difference, I was thinking about my own experience just now when you were talking about that. Elementary school didn't feel stressful to me at all, but I don't believe that we had this retention year and it was as big of a deal when I was in, you know, elementary school in the 90s. But high school with the advanced placement exams and um SAT and ACT and the focus of basically these determine your future is uh very high stress. So I imagine if I taught in a high school, maybe my response to and ways I prep for those tests would be way different. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I'm just thinking as well, like I have this whole trauma with high stakes exams, and my daughter who's in kindergarten, she has assessments and they're not super high sticks, but I feel like they're high sticks for her because I have this need sometimes to always be the best, you know. I'm like, did you get everything correct? And I'm like, oh no, no, no, I need to change that. Like, we only got nine out of ten, that's really great. Or I shouldn't say you only got, you know, like you got nine out of ten, that's really amazing. So I feel like because I've understood my response to high sticks exams, have this inclination to put my ideas on my daughter and make her feel the same way. And so I kind of have to stop myself and be like, no, no, no. She actually enjoys this. It's weird to me that people enjoy tests, but you know, my own daughter loves it. So this is something I need to learn to encourage.
SPEAKER_00So, what questions remain unanswered? What are you studying next?
SPEAKER_01Uh, I'm still studying a little bit more and trying to understand uh the body and mind connection and how it would pertain to teaching. Um, I'm also trying to figure out a way to increase teacher motivation. So, you know, I think in Malaysia, I'm sure in the US as well, because there's so much testing, there's a lot of changes in the curriculum, and it's it's a really stressful job teaching, but it is exacerbated by social media, AI, and it's like that. I'm trying to think of a way to keep that passion of teaching alive in teachers because I've seen so many teachers start to burn out and start to think like it's a bit hopeless now, uh, or students are not like how they used to be. So I'm just trying to find that why, you know, like trying to give teachers this why I feel like that makes the whole teaching and learning experience more wholesome. And I'm not sure if I talked about self-determination theory by DC and Ryan. So that you are more intrinsically motivated to uh teach or learn. So I apply those three facets to my teacher prep and also when I'm teaching students as well.
SPEAKER_00It's really interesting. The episode actually that will come out a couple weeks after yours is from a principal who that that's his area of interest and his area of work is intrinsic motivation in teachers. So, how do you keep going when you want to be there on some level, but it's really, really hard. So it's interesting because you all are both principals. So this must be something that um, of course, you guys are interested in retaining your best uh people at your schools. Uh, so that's really interesting. And where can educators go to learn more about your work? They can find me on LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01Uh I have a school website, tls international.edu.my.ny. I also consult sometimes. And it's called brain-based teaching. So they can also find me on tntconsultancy.com.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful. And I'll link all of the websites in the show notes so that everyone has access to those. That's great. I think you're doing incredible work. Like it's it's really relevant here this time of the year. But it is it sounds really crucial to children's development where you are. So I I think that's awesome. Thank you, thank you so much for sharing all of this with us today. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to the research to practice gap. If this episode challenged your thinking or gave you something practical to try, share it with a fellow educator. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at the Research to PracticeGap. And subscribe anywhere you listen to your podcast so you never miss an episode. If you have any questions, feedback, or would like to be a patron on the podcast, you can reach out to us at research to practicepod at gmail.com. Research doesn't make classrooms. I don't know. I don't have time. I keep reflecting, I keep reflecting, I keep breaking.