Episode 8: Temuri - Addiction, Purpose, and Backing Yourself

In this episode, I sit down with Temuri — a filmmaker whose journey has taken him from the Soviet Union to the corporate world… and then completely off-script into creativity, addiction, recovery, and rebuilding a life on his own terms. 

We talk about what it really looks like to follow a calling — especially when it pulls you away from everything that feels “safe” or expected. The highs, the lows, and the messy middle that doesn’t always get shared.

We get into:
 – Leaving the corporate path to pursue creativity
 – The realities of filmmaking and building something from nothing
 – Addiction, rock bottoms, and second (and third) chances
 – The balance between art, purpose, and survival
 – Learning to back yourself — even when there’s no clear path

 It’s honest, layered, and very human. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:17

Welcome back to Flippin's Group with a Gems. This one is a bit of a ride. In this episode, it's a bit of a late night with a gem special, and I'm sitting down with Tamuri, who's a filmmaker, and his path has been anything but linear. From growing up in the Soviet Union and chasing a corporate career to walking away from it all, to follow creativity, navigating addiction, hitting rock bottoms, rebuilding and continuing to create through it all. We talk about what it really takes to pursue something that calls you, even when it doesn't make sense on paper. The tension between art and survival, the realities of the film industry, and the deeper layers of addiction, identity, and finding your way back to yourself. It's raw, it's honest, and it definitely flips a few scripts. Hope you enjoy. Let's get into it. All right. Hi T. Thank you for joining me this evening. It's kind of like a late night with Jim special.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_08 1:25

Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Excuse my accent, but I guess um I kept it makes me a bit different.

SPEAKER_08 1:34

Yeah, love the accent. Don't need to be sorry. Okay, well, let's start with so how did you get into filmmaking?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I was five when um uh my parents took me to a friend of theirs who just got uh V V C R. Um that was just the new technology. I was growing up in Soviet Union, a very block country, and suddenly there is this device and tapes with foreign films, and there was a Bruce Lee movie blew my mind, and then a year later my dad got uh one of those VCRs and um he and he brought a tape. There was uh uh another Bruce Lee movie on it, and um I remember we would have people coming through over 24 hours just in batches to see through the tape. I would watch it on rotation until I fell asleep, uh, when I had to go to bed, and then I won't woke up in the morning. They were still going. New people were watching the same tape, and that's where I knew as somebody who loves being, you know, um stealing the spotlight, and that's how I get people's attention. I gotta make movies.

SPEAKER_08 2:54

Oh, interesting. I think that's that you correlated that with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Oh. And ever since then I developed a sincere fascination for films, always wanted to be making films, and um, but it wasn't until I was in my mid-20s that I finally answered the call and went and studied film and been making films on and off since then.

SPEAKER_08 3:16

So, did you go down another career path first and then plot us back into films?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yes. Um I in my family there was nobody artistic. The concept of having artistic people or having to do anything with arts or creative expression was completely foreign. Uh, my uncle, my mother's brother, was creatively inclined. And I think I first got the um this fascination or the the love for storytelling from him. He was a natural storyteller and a really good writer. But um even though I pursued my interest in films uh from an early age, uh I never really studied it or anything like that. I did uh got my uh finance degree. Yeah um and uh did that for a few years. Um I was well on my way to Wall Street.

SPEAKER_07 4:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

But uh this need to uh explore and do something creative was very, you know, uh strong in me. I think I wrote my first book, I was 12.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, yeah, I was always about writing. And so this inner conflict, you know, as I was getting more and more into the corporate world, started to um really uh push back.

SPEAKER_07 4:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And um I was 23, 24, 23 when I discovered weed.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

And as I started smoking weed, this call became stronger and stronger.

SPEAKER_05 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And until one day I just had to do it.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

So in an odd way, uh cannabis played that sort of uh uh role in my life where eventually it pushed me to pursue my childhood dream.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

And as I started smoking weed, um I started seeing things differently myself.

SPEAKER_07 5:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Just uh especially the um especially star I started to ask question why.

SPEAKER_06 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

You know, I started perceiving myself differently, started perceiving reality differently, and um it led to other things, more you know, more psychotropic drugs. Like I tried acid, I tried mushrooms, it was like my world changed. It's like, oh my god, I have soul, yeah, I have purpose.

SPEAKER_05 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Started reading books, and eventually the the hypocrisy of the corporate world, I realized I just can't be, I can't spend another 10, 20 years chasing something that just for the sake of it, I didn't want to waste any more time. And uh uh I also started watching films, you know, smoking wizards, watching films, seeing them differently, recognizing a lot of ideas that were running in my head, manifested in the works of you know master filmmakers. I kind of got the sense of kinship.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

I could do it, I could do it, you know, almost like that. And um uh and eventually, ironically, I um uh started developing this debilitating uh migraines um to the point where you know I would be sitting in an office and this thing would just completely debilitate me. And I started taking serious pills, uh, but uh got to the point where I'd have to be taken to the hospital to get an injection just to alleviate migraine.

SPEAKER_07 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Sometimes I'd be out of action for two or three days.

SPEAKER_07 6:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

And uh um there was a message, you know, as I as I got into the you know, exploring the spiritual or uh realm, uh I um started to believe that there's a message coming through my body.

SPEAKER_07 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I couldn't maybe articulate it exactly like that back then. Yeah, I was in my mid-20s, you know.

SPEAKER_07 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Um, but uh the moment I left um you know the office and uh enrolled into a film school, I heard I my migraine stopped.

SPEAKER_08 7:27

Really?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Radically.

SPEAKER_08 7:28

That's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 7:31

So do you think perhaps maybe that was a physical manifestation of you know, your intuition perhaps, telling you this environment isn't right for you? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, there was definitely um uh uh um what at the time felt very uh debilitating, uh was in effect liberating.

SPEAKER_05 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

And uh uh one day it was one of those sort of Mondays where you just loathe of reset, you know, going back onto the treadmill, and I just called him sick, yeah, and went into I had a friend who was running a music shop, and you know, that was just something I wanted to to do was just to go there and uh weep. I don't know what to do with my life.

SPEAKER_08 8:24

Uh but I know it's not that it's not that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

I need a sign. What do you want to do? I want to be making movies. Well, then go and make movies. How? I don't know where to start.

SPEAKER_05 8:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

And uh I remember that day sitting there, like you know, literally pulling my hair out, and um, you know, uh having coffee listening to music, but and then just leafing through New Zealand Herald. And I came across uh uh an ad, South Seas Film and Television School, and that was one of those that I rang them and I made an appointment next day. You know, I I I had a flash sports car, I was wearing you know Versace suits and whatever, and my case, you know. I was a poster boy for corporate world, so I wrote up there in this outfit because I want to be making movies, and you know, I was very confident young man, and uh and I said beautiful you're in we really really need film producers because you know nah nah nah I don't want to be a fucking producer, I want to be the the creator, yeah. I want to be the director and the writer, and and that's when you know they got a bit concerned because you know I was nothing like uh a film uh a director, you know, there was nothing creative about me other than the way I carried myself. So they asked me to show some examples of creative work and I had nothing. All the books I wrote in my childhood were long forgotten memories. So they said, well, okay, well, you know, if you really want to do it, go and make something and then we'll have a look at it. Let you know.

SPEAKER_07 10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

It's quite a competitive selection process for specifically for directors.

SPEAKER_07 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

So I took a week out and uh they said make a five-minute movie or something, you know. And I and uh took a week uh off and mobilized and um came back with like um I think it was about 40 minutes long and corpus three parts. It was so ambitious. I I filmed it, I edited it. I couldn't quite because it was like nine year 2000, 99, way before computers, you know, things like that. So I had I had to edit them on VHS tapes between two VCRs and and I couldn't quite figure out how to put the soundtrack on. So when I rocked up, I brought V V VHS and I brought a little portable like uh cassette tape, uh no CD C D player, and I had to cue it up directly so the soundtrack was coming from here, and but when they saw that, they just like, yeah, you gotta you've like you've overtake here. They knew that they uh they knew that I was, you know. So um, and about three months later, I was a student.

SPEAKER_08 11:19

And how long was that journey being in school for it?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

It was just a very practical course, it was just one year. Um, they didn't really train to become filmmakers, they trained more to become, you know, to enter the industry workforce. So it was a very practical course, more aimed, I guess, at training people to feed the industry.

SPEAKER_06 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Um but uh at the same time, you know, they they uh um taught us how to write scripts, how to direct scenes, how to direct movies, and I made like four short films during that year. I had a go at acting, editing, a camera, uh, you know, producing, but uh writing and directing was clearly my passion. And that was um, you know, I was always a good student. I was always a sort of um school, um, university, I was always uh, you know, a student. Uh we'll get A's, and so I had high expectations. But um whenever I studied finance or mathematics or you know, physics, science, um I it was always a bit of a struggle.

SPEAKER_07 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And um I this was the first time in my life when I really enjoyed uh doing something. And I had I didn't I didn't need any help, it was never a chore. I just uh found my um you know, was happy. Yeah, so um I uh I was uh you know I was a good student.

SPEAKER_07 12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

And uh um I made uh you know my graduation work was quite impressive and I knew it. But um so it was a good year for me.

SPEAKER_08 13:08

Cool. And then what happened when you've graduated out of film school? I'm guessing it's not all roses and rainbows, and you just slot into some medical job.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, well, um, yeah. Uh it wasn't. I uh it uh what followed was a bit like uh uh a countdown from really, really good drugs. Really bad countdown. Yeah, yeah, it was suddenly you know you're busy, you're creating, you're supported.

SPEAKER_08 13:43

Yeah, just and you're like, um this is my place, or it's this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, and suddenly there is nothing you because to make something a film, you need people, you need cameras, you need gear, you know, you need structure. Yeah. So you need funding, and oh shit, uh, where is my funding? Uh and uh what am I gonna do? And uh so um in retrospect, I should have just uh uh balanced it out and be a bit more mature and um find some sort of an industry job and work my way up. But I was too cocky. I thought, you know, I'm a genius here. I'm gonna figure it out, making something that's so amazing that's just gonna land me in the hot seat. And um uh but I couldn't figure out uh how to go about it at the time. And uh unfortunately by that time um my infatuation with cannabis started to backfire from discovery and inspiration into um depression and addiction. So I kind of had to uh do something about that before I moved on in with life.

SPEAKER_07 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Uh I was, you know, turning through an ounce a week and wake and bake and all of that, and I was pretty dism pretty, pretty bad place.

SPEAKER_08 15:09

Yeah, so quite that was quite a consuming factor, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, but uh you know, I had a friend uh that you know uh who came out of the film school with me, and he was also equally lost, and and so we decided to do a boot camp.

SPEAKER_08 15:30

Okay, what kind of boot camp?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Well, initially, you know, back in the day, back in the day, there was like uh some sort of a boot camp program run by wins for um genuine who needed a bit of straightening up like a military six-week port Waikato, get up at six in the morning.

SPEAKER_08 15:51

Okay, literally like a boot camp. I thought, okay, I had visions of something else in my head.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yeah, that's what that's what we signed up for. But on the closer inspection, I got a little I got cold feet, uh, not because I was worried for about you know the intensity of it, but there was no intellectual component to it. Literally, they were just soldiers, and I needed some mental stimulation. I wanted this bootcamp to be about you know, not just resetting my body, I needed to reset my mind. So I pitched to my friend, you know, and then we pitched together to his parents, they had a batch. And we said, how about we go take over that batch for six weeks and do our own boot camp, design our own, you know, but we follow the same stringent, you know, stringency, and we'll just like also we don't we don't we don't we don't need um you know sergeants yelling at us. Yeah we can be our own sergeant. Cool, and that's what we did.

SPEAKER_08 16:52

And so what was the what did you get out of your six weeks out from Polo's boot camp?

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Well, I know what I lost. Okay, what did you lose? I lost all my bad habits.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Quit smoking, I quit dope, I reset my diet.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

I uh and I lost 20 kgs.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Really?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

In six weeks.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, I became a runner, I became a swimmer, I I started meditations, I started riding. And in fact, when I uh um came back and um c decided to start catching up with friends, yeah, would be quite common, they would pass they it would be happen more than once that they would walk past me.

SPEAKER_08 17:34

And they wouldn't recognize you.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

They wouldn't recognize me. Yeah, it came different men.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, so but that set me on such a you know high-energy, you know, course that we decided to make a couple of films together, and then I applied for some funding to create New Zealand, and I do I got it.

SPEAKER_06 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

So uh two years after that, I started a production company, applied for some funding, and Wynn supported my transition from being on a dull student to self-employment. I set up a production company, started making some ads, uh, moved out from my grandparents' place and rented my own house, you know, got a girlfriend. Yeah. So um I was high, high-functioning, high-performing man in my late 20s.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Um, and I did some good work, but unfortunately, um I didn't quite uh uh have a plan how to monetize it, how to make it. And I was kind of hoping for something to land as a result of my efforts. Yeah, didn't have a plan what to do with this film, so I would just make them and just leave them.

SPEAKER_08 18:45

Yeah, so just so I can understand the process. So do you make the film first and then try and apply for funding? Is that how it works?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

No, I made uh like uh uh uh some short films I just made out of my own back, and the one I applied for funding first, they would give me the funding, I would make it, but there was no real um I is there was no real plan on how to convert those into some opportunities. I would sort of show them around, you know, and I but I didn't really pursue, you know, I didn't really send them to festivals, I didn't really have a plan on how to get traction. I was just hoping that something would happen. Something would happen. Yeah, that was where I learned to uh that this fake it till you make it, or you know, I was almost lost myself a little bit too much in the spiritual, ethereal the universe will figure it all out, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:48

I got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, put too much faith in the universe, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Like, yeah, uh, and I and I think in in in the end of the day it comes down to uh actually um uh something that a lot of artists uh um um share, which is uh this resistance to absorb a very necessary part of what it means to be an artist is putting yourself out there and treating it as a business.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

We almost kind of we revert back to our um infancy or infantile being chill childish about it, hoping that a parent figure would appear and guide us and protect us from the big bad world, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:47

And putting our creative things out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

And in the would they in the in the in the uh in some ways it wasn't like totally misguided because I was studying a lot of other filmmakers and in some ways they they would um what would happen is that a televised director would be discovered by a producer, and that that producer person would open the doors for them, you know, the the Peter Jackson's of this world. Yeah, take them under the wing, and yeah, yeah, uh um, and um um, you know, with all due respect, but I think they all had, you know, this this big directors often have some big producers kind of uh splitting the splitting the the job, you know, in a way. And when and but in my life it just didn't happen.

SPEAKER_05 21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Uh I I think at some stage I approached every single producer in the country, sometimes two or three times over. Um but um nobody would pick me up. Well nobody would take me on. And those people who tried to take me on, they'd be they wouldn't last because they were just too. Intimidated by m you know, my I was, I guess, you know, high demands or whatever it was. And so I was all you know, started being torn. Like, what does it mean? Oh, I'm not talented enough. Um, but at the same time I could look at my work and you know people who were watching it, there was a lot of talent on on show. So I thought maybe my attitude is not enough, but I guess I I just didn't think too much of what those producers were doing.

SPEAKER_06 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And I didn't really I didn't come across some really impressive people that I would just trust. So and so I guess I would go back to okay, well I have to do it myself.

SPEAKER_06 22:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And because I had a business background, you know, finance and accounting, you know, I think I just, yeah, I would eventually go back and make another film by myself.

SPEAKER_06 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And that's what became the norm.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Until I finally, you know, um, probably not so long ago, after you know, decades of doing it, I finally realized that it's not a curse, it's a it's a gift that I was just not prepared to accept. Settle. Settle, and oh, actually I have the capacity to do it.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Um, and that's when things started to change.

SPEAKER_08 23:25

Yeah. That's awesome. It sounds like you did have a lot of like belief in yourself and what you were trying to do, and the kind of path that you wanted to head on, and although you didn't really know exactly how that was all gonna work out, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yeah, a sense of um purpose and calling.

SPEAKER_05 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

That would in you know, and because I would like oscillate between almost like bipolar, I haven't never been diagnosed as bipolar, but I think my life journey is definitely di can be diagnosed as bipolar. Because it'd be from this extreme high of superactivity and superachievement to then darkness, yeah. Often associated with drug use. So uh which to anybody who cares, I can say doesn't help.

SPEAKER_08 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

It only compounds.

SPEAKER_08 24:34

Yeah. Down the road was it till you st m made crackheads?

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Right, that would so that was about um um ten years. Um yeah, about ten ten years after film school.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Um, basically after uh my first lull uh and then uh uh some really heavy times on heavy drugs, I managed to get myself out of it again, another boot camp. Although it was more than a boot camp, it was a longer period, but I I I finally kind of divorced myself from all self-harm. And uh um and about two or three years after being uh sober and uh uh onto it, uh I have uh um come to terms that actually my finance skills were useful. Because you know, I went through the process of like almost burning my graduation, you know, my qualifications and like in ritualistic bonfire just to make space.

SPEAKER_08 25:41

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Energy space. Yeah, you know, I thought that God's watching me and I just have to commit, and my way of commitment was to burn my degree, but but uh um I kind of made made peace with it. I tried it out, and then I thought, well, um for some reason I was good at it. People would pay me good money to hire me as their finance guy.

SPEAKER_07 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

And I thought, okay, well, I can do it like part-time and finance my my my pursuits. So I got back into filming, made a short film, made another. I could self-finance them because I was making enough money. And then I, you know, I wanted to make a feature film, and uh I was invited to uh direct a play and uh uh by my some of the friends that I made short films with, and I thought, okay, yeah, I'm keen to do it. It was a comedy called Ladies' Night, famous New Zealand play.

SPEAKER_07 26:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

That uh yeah, it's it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_08 26:42

Um I'll have to look it up.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah, yeah, it's a comedy about four friends who decide to become strippers.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

It was kind of made into a movie called uh um well, it's not exactly made into a movie, but it will it sort of inspired the film called Full Monty.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

And um so we did an reincarnation of that and I really really enjoyed it, and that gave me idea that okay, I'm my first film I want to make about four friends kind of doing something bad or something wrong. But and the question would be, would their friendship survive it? So I started thinking about what what they can be doing. And uh uh so I settled.

SPEAKER_08 27:34

Yo, that's a fun thought. What naughty things could they be doing?

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah, yeah, something wrong. And I thought, okay, well, clearly they'll be doing drugs. It was without pressure, but I didn't think it was should be about drugs. So initially I spent a year or or so working on a film that uh they would be playing video games, and then they would enter the competition, and it was it was the time when video games were becoming more and more sort of like prevalent as uh this you know, competitions, people would start playing competitions. So I wrote a screenplay and you know started making some traction. Uh but it kind of didn't really work. I mean, on the one hand, it was funny, but it wasn't super funny, and then I came unstuck when I decided to sell my genius idea to a gaming company, and they looked at it and said, Well, it's got drugs in it, so we ain't gonna touch it. I could have asked it a year ago. Yeah, um, and sort of made sense, you know, they're really, really scaverse, and it's like, okay, and then but uh while I was working on that show, I uh met a guy who was part of the cast, and uh we became friends, and he was another writer, and we really vibed. And I said, they you know, they wanna they wanna write something together, and what have you got what have you got in mind? They said, Well, I wrote this comedy, it's kind of funny, but I figured maybe if we do comedy together, it would be funnier. And that's how he goes, okay, let's give it a go. And I said, Well, I'll, you know, the only thing is I'll direct it, you'll act in it, you know, because he was an actor and actor writer, and I was actor direct or writer director. And so uh I started thinking what it could be, and then one uh one day while we were brainstorming, um he came uh, you know, he goes, Hey, um, what about crack? And he goes, Ah, no, crack is not funny.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Crack is not funny.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

And I've just been I just lost myself on it for a couple of years, you know, a year or over. I almost lost everything I had. Well, I lost everything I had.

SPEAKER_08 29:46

Yeah. Yeah, well, you were like, crack is not funny to me at this point.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah, it's not funny. No, that's exactly why it's funny, because it's so extreme, and crackets are funny. Crackets are funny. You know, they're just hilarious to, you know, because observed, yeah. And so, um, and you know, he said, and could be four friends getting on it, you know. Yeah, instead of usually films about drug people are about druggies, you know. But we were and said, what about we make a movie about just normal people who get on it? Because that's the thing about crack that anybody can end up on it.

SPEAKER_08 30:18

Yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

And I said, Well, actually it's a it is a good point. That's what happened to me. Yeah, typical crackhead, you know.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

And um, and I said, Well, and actually, I could probably spin out enough material just this afternoon. I've been through it. And he he he he was uh you know, he was interested in drugs, but never in crack. So that's what we did. We spent a month or so, you know, writing down. I was trying to remember.

SPEAKER_08 30:50

Yeah, so it's based on your experiences, yeah, all of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Uh but we didn't want to make a film about me, so we thought, okay, well, let's create characters, and then I can use my experiences and see how we can say, how about you know, uh, let's think of four characters. And I said, I I I think I I want to have a um I wanted to have a doctor, uh, like a psychologist.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Yeah, that's the psychologist.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah, I thought it'd be funny to have a psychologist who does it for research. Yeah, kind of felt like I did it for research.

SPEAKER_08 31:26

Yeah, and so good when he's in session and he's falling asleep.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And and he said that he wanted to have a priest. And I go, no, no, no, that's too much. He goes, No, but it's a comedy, you know. He taught me that in comedy you have to push it.

SPEAKER_05 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Then to if you know, when you push it as hard as you can, then you have to push it even harder.

SPEAKER_05 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Then it gets funny. Because he wanted to become a priest when he was a kid, but it didn't happen. And he thought it would be funny to have a crack smoking priest.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

And I go, well, actually, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

And then he wanted to be an actor, so you know, we had an actor, and uh, I wanted to have um I wanted to have a Maori guy who would be like uh this sort of uh shifty, yeah, you know, shifty guy. Yeah, I wanted to express some of the stereotypical things that I notice Kiwis often talk about, but only privately, not so much in the open. I wanted to play on that, you know, stereotypical sort of um thing, but uh make it uh not superficial, kind of like a real person.

SPEAKER_08 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

And uh um that's how it started.

SPEAKER_08 32:31

Yeah. Such a good movie, by the way, guys. Go watch it.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Uh it's just that Crackets took another seven, eight years to be found as a film. And that happened uh yeah, seven, eight years later. Yeah, and what happened when that all uh so we we basically saw initially we signed a couple of really bad deals, uh, learned hard way about uh getting in bed with wrong people, you know. Um so those distributors, sales agents, they didn't do anything, films got stuck. Uh, and uh um, you know, we were so green. Uh that goes back to my story of short films. It's like making the film is half the battle.

SPEAKER_06 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

And um again, I was counting too much on discovery rather than hardcraft of pushing it out there. We ran out of all the money, we had no marketing, no buying, no nothing, no, no, no budget, no money left to and you need to spend money to make money. And um so I think uh I was just uh not mentally ready to take responsibility for uh the reality of independent filmmaking and independent marketing. But uh I did come across this outfit in LA that was just starting out as a new company that were looking for ways how to promote independent films. They approached me and they said, We're keen to take your film on, it won't cost you anything. And but you know, if it goes, it goes. By that time I was quite jaded, yeah, whatever. Um and I didn't hear from them in a while. But then I got a phone call. They said, When was the last time you checked your um bank account? Not the bank account, but your film account. Uh yeah, so I had no idea that uh the film took off.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, in its own way.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Then they put it on Amazon and on Tubi and a few other platforms, and it was the one of their success stories.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Just completely word of mouth.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, and they asked me, so what are you what are you doing for marketing? We want to tell the other filmmakers. And I said, Well, my secret is that I do sweet fuck all.

SPEAKER_08 34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

I just look at the moon and Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:58

Well, I think it goes to some that whole word of mouth thing. If you put out good word good um, good whatever, then people are gonna talk about it, and that's the best way to get it out there, really.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yeah, so uh finally, you know, after all those years, our belief I'm you know my my gut feel that there was audience for this type of type of film. That people, you know, I just had to kind of reach them.

SPEAKER_05 35:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

It was uh yeah, it sort of it kind of saved me. It came at a time when I was losing hope.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Unfortunately, a little bit late uh for my personal life. I was by that time I was in trouble, but uh that's another story.

SPEAKER_08 35:48

Do you want to go into that?

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Well, I kind of have to, I guess, because uh after 15 years of you know being uh uh you know uh sober and uh I found my way back on in you know in becoming a cricket myself again. 2.0 So uh ironically um when the film finally started to produce some uh returns to pay me back for my investment and investment of others and all by that time I was back on the pipe, you know. So I kind of smoked it. Yeah. How ironic yeah, yeah, how ironic how moronic.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

But yeah, and you're a human.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah, yeah. So um I was deep into my research of uh next level.

SPEAKER_07 36:45

So you can make another film with another, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, that was the idea. Um I but um this time it goes much darker.

SPEAKER_08 36:54

Yeah, much darker, yeah. So and some of them t talk to me about potheads.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Potluck.

SPEAKER_08 37:04

Potluck, that's right. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

So crackheads. Yes, and uh intertwine them. So uh one of the dramas uh in my personal life was that I've been trying to make this wine movie uh about an alcoholic who has to go back to Georgia, my home country, and become uh Toastmaster, and there is no such thing as a sober toastmaster, and so it's a comedy about uh relapse, so to speak. So obviously, I'm drawn to substance abuse of some sort, uh stories. Um, but uh yeah, it's been a very long journey of trying to get this film made, and it just hasn't happened yet. And uh um as I kind of go back and forth, go back and forth, um uh this time around when I finally got out of my uh personal uh interest in uh research and uh got cleaned up again.

SPEAKER_08 38:11

Another boat, Kent?

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Um this time uh this time um uh it was um a bit more radical. A bit more a bit more radical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this time I got involved uh um like I said, a bit darker and deeper, and so uh this time I got in trouble with the law. Um and um ended up with a conviction and had to serve out a sentence, and uh um I was fortunate not to be incarcerated, for which I'm very grateful. But I think that's what also why I'm sitting here today talking about movies rather than being out and you know part of the uh syndicated crime because I think that's kind of what would have happened if they did incarcerate me. But I probably would have just gone deeper. Gone deeper.

SPEAKER_05 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Um but I was spared. And uh uh but in my in my defense, you know, I wasn't I've never really become nefarious, you know. It was always in the name of research, and uh um it costed me a lot of money and a lot of health and a lot of personal uh sacrifice and uh cost. So in a way, um uh just enough to have a really good insight look into what that world is like and what makes it taken and what doesn't. And as I kind of came out of it, I did a lot of rehabilitation work and uh uh you know, a lot of uh counseling, a lot of peer work, you know, you know, and uh but we all you know essentially I made a deal that I do whatever it takes, except that I'm not gonna be doing anything else other than my work. You know, film is that what I do. No more accounting, no more house painting, no more whatever. Uh and so I just a hundred percent commitment to being creative. And I used art therapy to heal myself and rewire my brain.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, so I started doing photography and paintings, and uh I did a did you know heavy lifting in that regard and had a few exhibitions. Picked up the camera and uh started shooting, started editing, making content.

SPEAKER_07 40:43

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Um, and uh they say that you know uh the opposite of addiction is connection. I think it's a little bit maybe extreme, but you know, opposite. But connection helps heal addiction.

SPEAKER_06 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

And so those things, two things combined, like uh rewiring and retraining myself to be creative by working full-time as an artist, and you know, the discipline uh that goes into it, um, led me back to step by step, led me back to the films. And uh um as I started to kind of plot, okay, what you know, what's good film I'm gonna make, what can I do that doesn't require a lot of money that I can do today, I was kind of the universe danced with me and uh brought me together uh with uh this guy uh Abe Gray. Um we vibed. He I invited him to my birthday and where I was showing my film and he really liked my film. And he invited me to his museum, and you know, and uh so I became kind of a bit of you know part of the crew. Not so much part of the crew, but part of the part of the uprising. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:09

And um part of his circle.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Part of his circle, he became part of mine, and um over the next few months, um, you know, I think he kind of helped radicalize me. Um, and I said, Oh well, I've got a I've got a weird story in me. And um I think uh this sort of uh these conversations led to me saying, you know what, I'm gonna make a film about cannabis. Because af you know, meeting somebody like Abe who spent 25 years, you know, being an activist. And I've been an activist since I picked up my first joint. I just never really took it outside of my lounge.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Uh and so I think uh now that I kind of ended up having a cannabis-related conviction, mate gave me this, you know, and you know, I must say that when I came back to drugs, I made a deal with myself that I wasn't gonna abuse cannabis ever again.

SPEAKER_07 43:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Everything else was I knew it was temporary, but with cannabis, I wanted to now that I've reset my relationship, I wanted to make sure that I stay respectful.

SPEAKER_08 43:26

Like intentional and conscious about it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

That I was never, you know, so I from the day from the day one, even when I got, you know, into the deep into deep into with other drugs, I never allowed um I never was motivated, you know, I wasn't even inclined to abuse cannabis. And as a result, uh I kept it as my choice of substance uh and used it as part of my recovery.

SPEAKER_06 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I know it's controversial, it doesn't work for everybody, but again, to those who are interested, it is it is a Potential pathway to help heal addiction with other stronger drugs. And I used cannabis as my um partner in uh you know re-rebuilding my life. And um and so I just had this very strange but kind of uh complex relationship with the plant where I discovered it, I abused it, I I I got really addicted, and you know, it was it was bad for me, I had to give it up, then I rediscovered it, and then I started selling it, and then I got caught, and you know, all this sort of shit. But I realized I've got a lot of interesting touch points, and um and no matter how I look at it, I just can't quite understand why it's still being so stigmatized and uh criminalized despite most people understanding that it's stupid. Yeah, and so I felt that uh I can lend myself uh my my skills and myself as an interesting case study to make a film about it. Yeah, and uh with Ape's support uh as a starting point, I felt that I probably was gonna get good access to the industry, community, and that's why I landed on the idea of making a documentary, mid's personal film, mid's personal essay, mean, you know, and that's how it started.

SPEAKER_06 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

And um I'm in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Yeah. Yeah, so where are you at now?

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Well, uh uh fiercely proudly independent again, uh, but hoping to uh uh gain some uh um support. We are in the process of applying for some support to the powers in charge. Uh but we're about three months into production, we filmed over 20 hours of material, and um we have a firm release date, uh 10th of October, to commemorate 51 years of uh misuse of Drugs Act.

SPEAKER_08 46:20

Really? Yeah, that's really good timing.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Well, I feel that kind of this is our angle.

SPEAKER_08 46:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

To really question what you know. I have two two questions. Really, how can a plant that saves lives can also harm them?

SPEAKER_04 46:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

And what does prohibition have to do with it?

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

So I'm just exploring this too.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Through my personal lens and meeting a lot of people and really taking a deep dive to look at the plant and everything that surrounds the plant and cannabis uh in New Zealand and our history. Um a very, you know, deliberate, uh good look at it. So we filmed quite a few interesting interviews. We're traveling the country, we're looking at legal, illegal, uh, medicinal, recreational, spiritual, uh, harmful, helpful, um all kinds of aspects, building towards a hundred minutes of hopefully kick-as entertainment.

SPEAKER_03 47:24

Yeah, I'm sure it will be.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

And um inclusive and brutally honest conversation about it. Uh trying to expose a lot of hypocrisy uh personally and structurally.

SPEAKER_06 47:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

I don't think we have uh a solution other than we won't never find a solution unless we all have an adult conversation about it.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

Yeah. And the right people be involved in that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

What I'm finding is that a lot of our drug laws and drug rules and regulations are built and governed by people who know very little about them, other than by reading somewhere about it and often misinformed about it. People who've lived and experienced have very little say into how the drugs are controlled and governed. And I think, if anything, um that's my way of uh putting it on the spotlight and trying to build a case that actually maybe as a person who's lived in experience, I've got something valuable to offer. And if that lands, maybe then people in charge would be more open to feedback and inclusion of people who are actually using drugs to say what would work for them to help them.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Rather than trying to tell them what they need.

SPEAKER_08 49:00

Yeah, thank you. And thank you for your passion and putting yourself out there to do what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Well, I guess I I I'm I'm lucky and supported because well, you know, in the end I can say this thing. There was this thing um that just happened to me recently. I was uh out for a walk and um uh I saw this person in a wheelchair uh coming down the you know, it's like a hill. And um she was going a bit too fast. And then actually quite fast, but there was this sense of she was flying. She was like so happy, but she didn't it's like she didn't care.

SPEAKER_07 49:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

And I and then I clicked, you know. She's probably thinking, Well, I'm already in a fucking wheelchair. What else is gonna happen to me? Might as well go for it and enjoy it, you know. There was just that's kind of how I read it. Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of how I feel now. You know, okay, well, you know, I got busted, I got you know, that's why I call it pot luck. It's it's fucking luck, man. You only you realize that, yeah, it's not gonna help them, you know, but last two years the cannabis-related convictions increased by 50%. Ever if as long as it's in as long, you know, uh and it's just and it's that's not just about cannabis or even drugs. This is the thing, as as long as we leave it up to you know, you know, a matter of luck. And um uh it's never gonna be fair uh if it personally touches you or somebody you love. So I mean, but that's why I feel privileged to now I got it. I can be vocal about it. Well what's good it gonna do to me if I'm gonna hide it? Might as well wear it. As a badge.

SPEAKER_08 50:58

Yeah. Yeah. Well turn that kind of pain into wisdom and to help other people.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Yeah. And hopefully because I really, really don't want if I can't help in any shape or form um save some not save, but help somebody make curr correct their action and live in the world where this can lead to other consequences, then it's worth it.

SPEAKER_08 51:32

Yeah, awesome, love it. And cannot wait to see the movie.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 51:38

Bring it on.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Bring it on. Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 51:41

Thank you. Okay, one last question that I like to leave with with my guests. And even though we've already explored lots of scripts that you've flipped, but what is probably the biggest or most um, you know, script that's sticking out to you the most that you've had to flip on your journey so far?

SPEAKER_01 52:11

We tend to live our dreams till tomorrow often. We kind of live like there's something needs to happen before we really, really live the life we want. Or do something that you know we l we we we we we tend to live the best for last. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 52:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

And I think the script uh I've flipped, which makes me the happiest, is that now I try to put my best first. The joy first, put my best effort today, put my best idea today, like, and uh believe that what I'm doing today is the most important thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_06 53:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Just have that attitude, not saving it for tomorrow, not waiting for t for approval. Be like today is the day.

SPEAKER_06 53:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

This is the day, and I spent so much time in my life waiting for this or waiting for that, thinking that something else needs to empower me. Um that is probably my favorite script I flipped. I'm no longer. Even today, I I'm in my most vulnerable position, you know, I've ever been in my life. Um I'm the brokest, I'm the you know, most persecuted or vindicated, or and I've never felt more in sync knowing I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing, because I'm doing it as if it's the most important thing I could ever do.

SPEAKER_06 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

And it just comes from flipping that switch inside my myself rather than yeah.

SPEAKER_08 54:04

Yeah, I love that. Cool. Thank you for sharing, and thank you for chat chatting with me.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Well, Jim, I was complete joy. I hope I didn't overwhelm your audience and yourself, and but it was absolutely joyful.

SPEAKER_08 54:18

No, I'm I'm sure you didn't, and I'm sure you've given everyone lots to think about, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

See you in the movies.

SPEAKER_08 54:25

Yeah. Thanks for listening. You made it this fun. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And then if anything resonated with you and you'd like to share, please do reach out to me either through flipping the script with gem Instagram or um through my own personal business one, which is um at with gem underscore on the end. See you for the next one. If you're not already subscribed or following, and please do so you don't miss out on future episodes. Kind of kids here.