Ep 5 | Beyond Business: Building Wealth Through Shares, ETFs, and Alternative Assets

Guest experts: Jeremy Britton | Boston Trading Co | ETF and alternative asset expert and Carmelle Parvan | As Good As Gold Australia | Bullion Specialist

You've got property sorted. Now what about the other 50% of your portfolio?

Most business owners stop at property. It's tangible, it's familiar, and it feels safe. But  if 90% of your wealth is tied up in your business and property, you're dangerously concentrated. What happens when you need liquidity? What happens during a property downturn, or when you want to diversify globally?

That's where shares, ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds), and alternative assets come in. They're liquid, accessible, and globally diversified, and yet many wealth builders overlook them.

ETFs are a type of investment fund traded on stock exchanges, similar to individual stocks. An ETF typically holds a collection of assets like stocks, bonds, or commodities, allowing investors to buy into a diversified portfolio with a single purchase. Bullion (gold, silver and precious metals) has been a store of value for thousands of years, and it still plays a critical role in modern portfolios. 

In this episode, Fiercely Financial hosts Kate De Jong and Dee Skillicorn sit down with ETF expert Jeremy Britton from Boston Trading Co and bullion specialist Carmelle Parvan to unpack how business owners can build a truly diversified portfolio beyond property and their business.

What We Cover

• Why business owners need both illiquid assets (business, property) AND liquid assets (shares, ETFs, bullion)
• The liquidity advantage: accessing your wealth without selling your business or refinancing property
• How ETFs give you instant global diversification, accessing hundreds of companies in one transaction
• Simple portfolio construction for time-poor entrepreneurs: the 3-fund approach vs. the "one fund" solution
• Dividend strategies and franking credits: building passive income streams
• Tax optimisation: capital gains, dividend reinvestment, and holding structures
• Why precious metals belong in every portfolio (5-10% allocation)
• Gold and silver as portfolio insurance: uncorrelated returns, crisis performance, and inflation protection
• Physical bullion vs. ETFs: when to hold actual metal and when digital exposure works better
• Storage solutions, purity standards, and avoiding bullion scams
• Dollar-cost averaging: the behavioral advantage of automated investing
• Platform selection for Australian investors
• Common mistakes: over-trading, market timing, and emotional decision-making

If you loved this episode, share it with another business owner ready to diversify!

Ready to build your complete wealth portfolio?

Join the Fiercely Financial Action Planning Workshop on 30th May 2026 to get direct access to Jeremy, Carmelle, and our other expert guests. Bring your questions, your numbers, and your goals, and let's build your strategy together.

Spots are limited, please reach out to your hosts to secure your place!

Connect with Your Hosts

Jeremy Britton, Boston Trading Co
🌐 bostontrading.co | ✉️ jeremy@bostontrading.co 

Carmelle Parvan, Bullion Specialist
🌐 LinkedIn profile | ✉️ carmelle@asgoodasgold.com.au 

Dee Skillicorn, Digi-Secure
🌐 digi-secure.co | ✉️ dee@digi-secure.co

Kate De Jong, Inspired Business
🌐 katedejong.com | ✉️ kate@katedejong.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're bringing in the money, but are you building wealth? Welcome to Fiercely Financial, bringing you insights from top experts to help you shift from business owner to wealth creator. We're your hosts, Kate De Yong. And I'm the Skilly Korn. And we're on a mission to help more business owners build long-term wealth. Let's dive in. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome back to the Fiercely Financial Podcast series. We are now at episode number five, and we have two amazing guests with us today. Quite honored to have you both on board. We have Jeremy Britton from Boston Trading Co. Hi, Jeremy. And the amazing Carmel Pavan, the only woman leading a bullion dealership in Victoria. So I'm just going to give them both a um little intro given how much experience they have to share with us today. So Jeremy Britton is a true innovator in ethical investing, 30 years of experience in traditional financial markets, written several books on business, stock market, and property investing, as well as digital assets. Some have become bestsellers and award winners. For several years, Jeremy had his own radio show in New York City, would you believe, which he would jump in from Sunshine Coast. Is that right? Yeah, they um wanted your expertise over there in New York, had his own TV show in Brisbane, interviewing millionaires, entrepreneurs, and athletes. He's been featured in Forbes, HuffPost, the Financial Review, and countless radio and TV networks. He's been espousing financial empowerment since the early 1990s, speaking across five continents. Something I thought was fascinating in your bio, Jeremy, was that you helped launch the first ethical digital asset funds designed specifically for Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and Buddhists so that everyone can invest safely and simply according to their faith and ethics.

unknown 1:51

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Why not?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Good old Dr. Jeremy. Dr. Jeremy, yes, PhD in finance. Um, correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Uh no. Oh, no, D DFA in finance. Um, the the doctor is actually in religious studies.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

What a fascinating intersection. Isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

That's good fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, and um as you said, and yeah, anyway, we can talk more about that. But Carmel Pavan, um, the general manager at a leading Australian bullying company known as Good As Gold Australia. Um the first precious metals company in the world dedicated to empowering women towards financial freedom. Um, Carmel has so much experience. Um, she's a director on not-for-profit boards, she's been a general manager, a business owner, marketing communications senior manager, and um also been a regular panist on Channel 10's Beauty and the Beast.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

And a presenter on um uh on Metricon's The Home Show.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

I know. So it went from property to gold.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Wow, yeah. So I'd love to start, Carmel, with you and what got you and um what inspired you into your path of founding um an Australian bullion company?

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Well, I uh um actually met the founders, Daryl and Brian Paines, uh in Adelaide um over 10 years ago. And uh I was uh taken by um what is gold and silver. Like many people, we don't know, we don't see um this amazing, um precious, valuable that it is. There was a lot of education um that I then pursued. And I have actually worked in other finance companies, none of which um were interested in gold and silver. There basically wasn't anything for them, um commissions and and taxes, etc. Um, so I then um yeah, we started um to really look at what is fully in, what is what are the benefits of gold and silver. It's physical. I have um an ounce of gold in my hand. Look how shiny it is. Yeah, I know it's amazing. Um it I actually do hold gold and uh in my hand, and I do get chills after a while. There's something very alchemical about this incredible, valuable um precious metals. So, yeah, in a nutshell, I've been working over 10 years with as good as gold Australia. Um so we're Adelaide, Melbourne, we're the third, uh, equal third largest bullion company, and we're the only bullion company in Australia selling just physical bullion. Um, so that's how we position ourselves. Uh about six years ago, we noticed that there were very few women purchasing for many reasons. They weren't risk averse. Um, we were doing a lot of education, you know, why you should step into this space. And I'm really proud that um more than just over half of our clients are women. And the reason for that is that women are living longer, they have less financial saviness, less superannuation, less opportunities, but living longer in Australia, um, sixth longest lifespan. So this the whole world of bullion has become extremely important as a safe haven, wealth creation, um, as it has for also, of course, men and even younger people now. So um that's basically what my journey has been, and it's it's been an incredible journey, especially since the last year, where we've seen meteoric highs for the price of gold and silver, uh, that I can certainly elaborate if you like. Um, and that's all been benchmarked against benchmarked against the global volatility. Um gold and silver has outpaced um all other assets, and um, and it will continue to do so for various reasons. So it's a very exciting space, but most of all, I'm I have a passion helping people to create their financial freedom through precious metals.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, and the topic of this episode specifically being around alternative assets, which gold is considered and silver. Um yeah, um and Jeremy, what about yourself? Um, what started your journey into alternative assets and ETFs and um and crypto?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Um, well, I just want to get anything that'll actually make me a dollar. So um even the ethical investments is something that I that I used to sneeze at back in the day. Um, and again, for the for those younger people in the audience, you know, I I was born last century. Um, I started work last century. It was a different time. Um but you know, in in school, they didn't teach you about stocks and shares, they didn't teach you about starting a business. Most of us were taught how to write a resume and how to get a job, how to work for someone else. And it was only after I left school, because my parents were both employees, after I left school, I started to learn some of these skills and go, oh my God, it's it's it's kind of like the old um going over the rainbow. There's this whole new world. Yeah. I never heard of stocks and shares. I didn't know anybody who owned stocks and shares. Those were things that were on TV. And the only time I saw Ferraris, the only time I saw stock certificates were on the on the TV shows and the gold bullion and that sort of stuff. So learning about that stuff, and it's it's, I mean, 50 years ago, there were stocks and shares, right? Um, but since then they've made derivatives, they've made puts and calls, there's longs and shorts, and there's all these other things. If you've seen the movie The Big Short, there's a whole layer upon layer upon layer. Um, and they're starting to do that now. With cryptocurrency's been out for 15 years, but you couldn't get cash flow from your crypto. So the Wall Street guys are now adopting it and starting to build things on top. So there's always another thing coming down the pipeline. Um, like we used to have the 386 computer or the PlayStation One, but there's always something new. So as far as alternatives, it's a very exciting field because there's always something to add to it. Even gold is, you know, we've had the value of gold for 6,000 years or 8,000 years, but now people are starting to put extra things on top of it and build Lego things on top. So it's it's quite fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah. So presumably for the um ignoramuses amongst us who don't know a lot about this, you're talking about ETFs and is that right? Layering things on top of gold or um or so when you're saying talk, yeah, could you just explain in layman's terms?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

There's ETFs and and other derivatives. So say for example, it's it's easy enough to go and buy a property, um, as Carmel would will tell you, whether you're in monopoly or whether you're in the real world. But then if you wanted to diversify, you could actually borrow against that property and you could go and buy stocks and shares or silver or or whatever. So even that loan is a what we'd call a derivative or something that's built on. Derivative loans. Yeah. Um so you can get a loan against your gold and silver and then diversify another thing. You don't have to sell it when the time comes. So all of these things to me are alternative assets. I'm probably using the definition incorrectly, but um it's not the old school stuff that we just used to have, you know, property and shares.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah. And that's um maybe we should start with a definition of alternative assets that might help the listeners. Um, do you guys have a succinct definition?

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Can I jump in there and just say that I actually have um been um with uh a number of different cryptocurrency um providers, educators, uh successful companies, and we've run webinars and hosted in-person events, and we've called it the decentralized system or alternative asset. So um for me, it was very clear uh there is gold and silver, the physical that we obviously sell, and then you've got crypto cryptocurrency and Bitcoin. Um, and I think one of the main reasons is you become your own central bank. And so what does that mean? It means manage your wealth and basically um with gold and silver, uh the traceability becomes the issue. So alternative people are looking for alternatives so that they own it and they do whatever they want to choose with minimum third-party uh risk. Third party kind of risk, yeah. Um, and I guess for me, gold and silver is absolutely once you you you have it in your hands, um, no one technically does actually know that you have this as a valuable asset. So um, you know, sovereignty, absolutely. Um, thank you. That that was uh just came up as well through D. Um so we're seeing more and more people are waking up to what's really going on. I think the biggest question is um alternative, great. What's the alternative and why does that work? We have to actually ask why are people looking at this in the first place? Why don't people leave their money in the bank and have it done for years? In fact, people are um are taking their financial money um fiat currency, so fiat currencies, money in bank, gold and silver, real money. Why is this change happening? Why are more and more people looking to have their own sovereign sovereignty over what they own and therefore their financial future? Um, so I think they're the really important questions. For me, um, simple alternative assets are crypto, bitcoin, and of course gold and silver.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

It's so interesting that gold and silver are considered alternative assets when they've been around forever, isn't it? It's I know, but you don't hear about it.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

You know, I said I worked for two finance companies, um, they're very typical mortgages, loans, wealth creation sold their own products, and I'm selling gold and silver to clients as well. So I was a consultant back then. Um why the owners, why aren't you not, you know, recommend gold and silver? Why are we talking about this? And they basically would say, There's nothing in it for us. Yes, but there is for the client. Look, at least they were honest, right? So again, this is the awareness that um that we're seeing the change. What's going on? Who is controlling the power here? And we can talk about this for hours too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, fascinating. And um liquidity is a big driver as well for people, right, to to go into this space as opposed to locking up capital in in property. Is that is that the case?

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Well, personally, we have a lot of um people who our clients um who are either individual or they're selling their investment properties, particularly, if I may say, in Victoria, highest land tax, big state of Victoria. Um, every week, okay, every week people are selling their investment properties and they're purchasing bullion. So um that they're the facts. You know, I obviously I'm I'm at the fore um forefront of that. So again, you know, I think it does beg the question, why is this happening? Uh are they paying too much? Is the yield not enough? Um, and you know, the alternatives are um definitely available. And we here we are part of educating people to do that. Um, also businesses. We have a lot of clients who run their own business. Again, why keep the money in the bank when there's so many, certainly um a handful that we're talking about, Jeremy and I, um, about assets that you can purchase where it does um increase in value over time and you can sell anytime, and there's your liquidity as well. Right. Yeah, liquidity.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Okay. I I think the fun part with that is, you know, obviously, Carmel, you held up an ounce of gold because a gold brick is too heavy, it's about 30 kilos. Um, but with with the property, if you want to release some of the equity in your property, you've either got to borrow against it. You can't sell off just the front bedroom, you can't sell off the swimming pool when the house has gone up by 30%. But if you've got a gold bar, you can go into Carmel and say, hey, I want to break this into 50 ounces and sell off a few of these. Um, whereas you can't do that with the property. So property is probably the most illiquid asset. Um you don't have to buy an entire bar of gold. You can buy an ounce, you can buy a half ounce, you can buy five grams, but you can't really buy half a bedroom or sell off half a bedroom.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yeah. And then the other thing I think is really important is how much is that asset costing you? So, how much does it actually cost you over a period of time uh to own an investment property? Um, you have to take these things into consideration. It's a very serious um commitment. So, taxes, um, rates, council rates I'm referring to, borrowing, um Rathbag tenants. Tenants, tenants insurance, building insurance. When you buy, I'll show you a silver. No, that's a kilo of silver, by the way. Um kilo, 32.15 ounces in a kilo of silver. Um, and that there's not even GST. So just the cost of the product. Um, and I have to laugh, one of the owners of the business actually says all you need is a feather duster to dust off. I mean, you have to store it somewhere, and we do have storage available and and vaults, or you can store it on your own premises. So I guess really the point I'm making is um how much does it cost you to actually um acquire your wealth? Because it's not just the value increasing, it's what you're also paying for, um, not just the yield.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

So have these cycles always done this, Carmel. Um, you know, has gold gone through periods of being, you know, the asset of choice and over property? And does it swing in roundabouts? Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yes, it does. Absolutely. Um, there's been some stagnation with the spot price of gold and silver, which went on for quite a few years, particularly silver, which is um it's very suppressed. It should be um five times the amount. It's only it's around today, uh, $120, $20 uh an ounce, Troy ounce, but Troy refers to precious metals. Um it should be six to eight hundred dollars an ounce. And that is purely if you look at the transactions, the amount of um silver that's been used in green and blue technology. China, for example, uses silver for silver to make solar panels, the biggest and largest in the world manufacturing. Um, India with the um blue technology, um phones and other and other systems, they use silver. So there's less silver, there's more demand, it's finite, so there's only whatever's in the ground is it, there's nothing else. And so the demand is skyrocketing. So therefore, that basis alone, that formula alone, should signify that silver should be much higher. So we are starting to see that cycle. And in a nutshell, Kate, what the cycle is, is in times of financial volatility, uncertainty, um, the I'm not going to say decimation, but certainly the starting to crumble financial system, the devaluing of the fiat currency, particularly the US, sees the meteoric rise again of precious metals. Real money, if you like. So, yes, we're in that cycle now to 2030, absolutely. And that's been one of the drivers. Let alone the central banks of all or most countries in the world, they have been buying gold and silver, particularly gold, um, in like it's there's like it's going out of fashion, particularly Russia, India, China, for over 10 years. And last year was the first time towards the end of last year that Russia, India, and Saudi Arabia are now buying silver. So they've actually gone to silver, which is now even making it more official as um one of the leading, if not the leading, uh affordable assets.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Well, is that because they're you they're needed in some a lot of the technologies today? Is that why they're taking it?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

And absolutely, and as I said, this is supply-demand. Yeah. Like, you know, printing money into oblivion is what the is what countries do, particularly the US. So therefore, that is devaluing. You know, if you think about going to buy a coffee, a cappuccino, right? Five dollars three years ago. Now I have to pay $6.50, if not more. So my dollar is devaluing. Well, the US is devalued to the tune of 97%, let alone nearly um $38 trillion in debt. So these are the red flags. Um, and I'm just scheming the surface of what's going on, and as just going back to what you said, what is the cycle that's happening was certainly something. Jeremy, don't you agree? Something's going on behind the scenes. And we're starting to wake up to um A, who who who is the who are the upper echelons controlling the financial system, and B, what can we do about it as you know, we the people, the individuals.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

There's there's a few cycles, Carmel. So there's obviously there's the seven to 12 year economic cycle where property and and shares change places. Um every now and then there's a there's a stock market crash, people flock to bricks and mortar, then the property market gets overheated, reserve banks puts up the interest rates, slows down the property, and the stock market takes off. So that that's happened many, many times. Um, but then there's also the longer scale where we're looking over 8,000 years and the rise and fall of empires, because you know, America's been the number one superpower only for the last 50 years. And, you know, before that was the great British Empire, and before that was the Ottoman Empire, and before that was the Greeks and the Egyptians and whoever else. And all of these empires, Ray Ray Dalio wrote a really good book on this. Um, all of these empires last on average 250 years. Uh, in the 11th century, the Chinese were using gold and silver as money. Um, and then they started printing paper, and they printed too much paper, as the Americans have done, and eventually bankrupted the Chinese economy, which was the biggest economy in the world at the time, yeah, a thousand years ago. So America is around about 250 years old right now. And as Carmel said, we're starting to see that decline. They're printing so much cash, they're massively in debt. They owe more on their credit cards than they actually bring in as their income. So if they were a person, you'd declare them bankrupt. Yeah. 120% of GDP is in the debt. They'll never pay off the debt. The only way they can actually try and reduce the debt is by printing cash like willy-nilly, which happened in Weimar Republic in Germany, happened in Zimbabwe. So this is to me, is just an empire that's that's failing. And whether China is going to take over, whether India is going to take over, whether it's going to be a conglomeration of the BRICS economies, it's not going to be the US dollar as the reserve currency anymore. That's only been for the last 50 years. And if you look back through history, it's it's time has come. And that's why we're looking at alternative assets, because as you say, it's not the price of coffee that's gone up, it's the dollar has revalued. That's right. Because I used to be six feet tall, now I'm only 180 centimeters at the moment. But I didn't change, they just changed the measurement system. And so when you see the price of coffee and the price of houses going up by 20%, guess what? The value of your dollar has dropped by 20%. And that's why we need these alternative assets.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Couldn't agree more. I love, can I just say, Jeremy, I love that you talk about um, or you certainly referenced um history, because what happened was that your ancient Romans, ancient Egyptians, ancient Greeks would um be in power. So 6,000 years, the um whoever holds the gold has the power. And then they needed more artillery. And you know, war, going into war, it actually creates industries. We know that. And they then started to uh there's only so much gold around, so they started to dilute the gold. That is essentially the same as printing money, the value is lost, they lose the war, they lose the empire, the next one comes through. And you can see those cycles. Absolutely. So, you know, brilliant, Jeremy, that you mentioned that. We are heading towards the 2030, which is the next great financial cycle. So I wish I had a crystal ball, but at the moment we're just, you know, saying, look, get ready, study, do whatever you can, become aware. That's why programs like this, podcasts like this, are so important. We can have these open conversations and we can also give alternatives, a solution, if you like.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And when you said that um central banks are buying up bullion and silver um because they're, you know, they're seeing that as a safe, reliable asset. Is it uh I understood that they're doing the same with Bitcoin? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, bitcoin reserves happening um all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

The Americans stole some, but yes, saw that. But they seized they seized the assets. Uh because there's there's a few countries who have been using um have been locked out of the SWIFT system um because the US doesn't like them. You know, when Russia and and Ukraine are having their little spat or when Venezuela's doing something, and you know, they the Venezuelans want to sell their oil to the highest bidder, and the US is saying, oh, you can't sell it to Russia because we don't like Russia, and they're like, well, we don't care. Um, so we'll sell it to them as long as they pay us in gold, silver, or or bitcoin. And then the US comes in and says, Well, we're going to declare war on you and we're going to seize all your assets. So whether the conquering army goes in and takes over the industry or whether they just take the spoils of war, the US has been building up their Bitcoin assets, but so have little nations like Bhutan. And a lot of people go, where the hell is Bhutan? Well, there's there's other little countries who have been building up their reserves of Bitcoin as well as their reserves of gold and silver. Because when we have these economic resets, you basically don't trust anyone. Yeah. I mean, if we're if we were sitting here in the last days of the fall of the Roman Empire, we're going, oh my God, you know, the place is on fire, Nero's fiddling, he doesn't know what's going on. The currency used to be silver, but they put 90% lead in the silver because they didn't have enough money and they were fighting these wars. There's just chaos. People didn't know who to trust and who's going to be the next savior to come in. So that's when you say, Well, I don't trust these guys, so I'm going to have a little bit of this, a little bit of this, and a little bit of this. Um, and one of the things studying the history and also studying like the Jews have have been kicked out of not just Nazi Germany, but they were also kicked out of Spain, they were kicked out of Europe and a few other times during the last 1500 years. But the Jewish kids, the Jewish parents teach their kids, you get gold, you get property, and you get fine artwork. And if you know, if a war happens and the Russians take over all the land, your deed of your house is now worthless, right? But you've got your gold and your rolled up painting, you can stuff down your pant leg and you can you can skip the country. And then 10 years later, when rule is restored, you can come back and you can have your property. But you've always got to have at least a couple of alternatives. You don't want to be betting everything, all the eggs in one basket.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

That's sort of been a theme along a number of the podcasts that we've had, and a theme that's come along from a couple of the specialists that we've spoken to is there needs to be a spread in your portfolio. So everyone that's come in has said the same thing, even though they may have specialised in a certain area. They they are saying there should be a healthy spread in your portfolio with regards to it. So harking back to um your experience in stocks and shares, Jeremy, what what sort of uh formula did you used to use then, or what do you feel is current for small businesses and things now that want to expand and want to be able to spread their assets now? Um and and I I could probably answer because I know some of the things that you say to me all the time, but I was going to sort of hint around maybe the Woolworths and the Woolworths um fuel and all that sort of stuff that we've spoken about previously, but I'll hand it back to you, mate, just to have a bit of a chat about how businesses can actually help themselves.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah, I mean, this this business here, this is my 13th startup. So I've had a lot of businesses, and most business owners do the same thing. They put all their time and effort and energy into the business. And if you're self-employed, you don't have to pay superannuation. You work for someone else, it's compulsory, right? But you can end up with this massive asset, whatever the business is, and then you go, I've got no super, I've got no gold, I've got no shares, I've got no whatever. But then if there's an economic downturn and people aren't buying businesses, and you can't, similar to your house, you can't sell off a part of your business. So you end up with this massive illiquid asset, like a noose around your neck, because who's going to buy your fridge mechanics workshop except for someone who's a qualified fridge mechanic, you know, and you can't actually do that. So we we encourage people to start with what you know. And every business is different, whether you're a winery, whether you're a fridge repair, whether you're in construction or whatever you're in. But as a business, you've got a lot of suppliers, you've got some inside knowledge. Even for my clients who are employees, if you're a if you're a nurse, you could have known how to invest in Fires up before the Viagra announcement was made. Right? That stock just went nuclear. Um, you would have made about 300% within a week if you'd been paying attention to the boxes that were coming into the doctor's office before they started advertising because they ship this stuff. Um, you know, as far as one of my clients who drives big 25-ton trucks, and he's just working, driving trucks, and doing his thing. Now he'll be in the office and he'll overhear a phone call from a mining company who's just rang up and ordered 16 D9 dozers and 25 trucks. He doesn't know what the mining company is or what they've discovered, but he knows they've found something so he can go and buy stock in that mining company because he's Johnny on the spot. And every single person doesn't matter what you do, like you might be a stay-at-home parent and you go, well, all I do is look after the kids and pay the bills. Well, guess what? You're paying the phone bill, you're paying the food bill, you're paying the rent bill. So, as Dee says, you know, if you're shopping every week at Woolworths and all your friends shop at Woolworths, you'd be crazy not to buy Woolworth stock. If you choose Optus instead of Telstra, you'd be crazy to be buying Telstra stock if all of your phones are with are with Optus. So simple little things, uh, I I call it watch the destination of your dollar. Because if you're paying the car insurance to the same company every year, every year and you never switch, you should be owning shares in that company and diversifying. So you don't have all your all your eggs in the one basket in your business. You start to build a little share portfolio just with the companies that you know, like, and trust and diversify a little bit that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Some very valid points there, isn't there, Kate? Like just how you can start small within your business.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah. And it's like I think you mentioned earlier at the beginning, Jeremy, there's it's a whole world. It's and I I think this is how people get confused because there's so much you need to sort of understand to navigate all of this. But you know, um, where can people get started? You know, if they have if they are making profit, and um how do they start diversifying?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Well, that that's that's the fun part because again, you you know, to buy to buy a house in this country, you usually need to have a million bucks in cash, right? Um, or a massive deposit and a massive loan. But to buy some gold or silver, you can buy $20 worth. To buy some stocks, you can buy $50 worth, to buy some crypto, you can buy $20 worth of crypto. Um, the the thing then becomes how do I sort out the good ones from the bad ones? Um, so six years ago, when we advised our clients to buy gold, silver, and Bitcoin six months before the pandemic, um, we actually doubled down. We were buying twice as much silver as we were gold, because we were looking at the gold to silver ratio over the last 6,000 years, and gold had gone up massively and silver hadn't. So we did the math and went either either gold has to drop by 50%, which is unlikely, or silver's got to go up by at least 100% just to restore that 6,000-year ratio. So these are some of the things. I mean, I I would suggest, not that I'm trying to make a quid, but get a copy of my book.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Who's taking your money?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

It's it's for free on the website. So I wrote the book 20 years ago when I was warning people about the global financial crisis that was about to occur. But the reason why I could predict that coming up is because I'd studied these charts for 200 years. Wow, okay. And in the book, it actually like the book was written 20 years ago, but it's still current because these cycles still occur every seven to 12 years in the in the normal economic climate and every couple of hundred years over the over the longer span. So as I say, like jump on the website, you get the book for free.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

And this is at your Boston Trading Co. website?

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Uh yeah, Boston Trading Co. website. Um when I when I wrote the book, um, I I wrote it to my grandpa. He dropped out of school at age 15 to join the army. Um, and his wife dropped out of school at 15 to go and get it go and get a trade. So they'd never read an economic textbook, they'd never read a chemistry textbook, nothing with more than four syllables. So I wrote the book deliberately, very, very simply, so the people with a grade eight or grade nine education could understand it.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And when I wrote the book and gave it to a few financial planners, they're like, oh geez, you're really dumbing this down. Like we talk in highfalutin professor language. Like the average person wants to know, you know, can I buy shares in this toothpaste company? Because this is the favorite toothpaste and I'll never switch brands. Or can I buy shares in the IGA? Can I buy shares in the Bunnings? Because I spend half of my wage at the Bunnings renovating my house or whatever. So it's it's very, very simple. There's there's some great books out there, but this one again, it's not making me any money, but it's looking at the property cycles as well as the stock market cycles. So telling you when's the best time to take a loan against your property or sell your property, when's the best time to take profits on shares or buy your shares and move in and out of the cycles, but also how to choose your own stocks, because that's the hard part. How do you choose a good stock versus a bad stock? How do you make sure you're not in Theranos that you know lost nine billion dollars or um what's it, ChatGPT loses about a billion dollars a month? Some of these companies are not very good, some of them are great, but you if you if you can choose a toothpaste, if you can choose a grocery store, you can choose your own stock. It's the same skill. You're just looking for value, but on a different level.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Wow. So that's called Who's Taking Your Money? Yeah. Um is the name of that book. And it's you wrote it 20 years ago and nothing's changed. The principles are still the same.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Principles are still the same. Yeah, come a couple of the companies might have changed their names, but the principles are still the same.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah, fascinating. And um, so my first um sort of dalliance in alternative assets was um using the bamboo app. I'm sure you guys and just because they made it easy for people like me that had never, you know, dealt with crypto or gold and silver before, because you can get gold and silver on there and Ethereum and Bitcoin, right? And so when you have gold and silver in that format on an exchange, right, Carmel, um that means you do own that much gold, just it's it's being held by the exchange. That's how that works, or not quite.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

I might step in on that. Not quite. Ah, okay. Yeah, go ahead, not quite, because what happens ignorance by the way? No, no, what happens in this instance? You purchase the token on that. Now it's this this is different to stocks and shares, okay, where you are investing in perhaps the gold companies, etc. etc. This is purely about alternative um assets. You purchase that particular token on the exchange, it is backed by gold and silver that is held by the bullion dealer. So, in this instance, say as good as gold had a token and it went out onto the marketplace, and we could buy it from a local Australian exchange. They don't hold the gold, the exchange doesn't hold the gold, the gold is actually held physically inside their vaults in Melbourne. Right. And they can only release so many tokens as to how much gold they can get. So they can let's say, for example, one week, and I'm using this as an exaggerated example, but one week, um, as good as gold could only get hold of $100,000 worth of gold at all. That's that was their limit for the week. They couldn't obtain any more. They could only release $100,000 worth of tokens to the exchange to be broken. So that's that's how that kind of works because it has to be backed, and that has to be backed by liquidity. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

And and the other thing is the price, great one, uh great point, D. The other thing is that it try the price, the the spot price, which is globally set, um, changes every 10 seconds of gold and silver. If you watch it because up, done, up, done, talk about your classic candles. Now, nothing goes to the moon in this straight line, but there has been a pullback. But you know, again, the in over 145% increase of silver in the last 20 uh the last year, um, uh gold um very similar to like 68, 70% increase. So I'm talking physical, and the difference is that the physical is you know you have it, you hold it. Um, you there are more risks involved. I'm not, I'm just being, you know, comparing um when you've got EFTs. And and for me, tokenization, um, and I'm putting a distinction there, um, because the bullion company or someone has to actually physically buy the gold first, buy the silver first. So it has to be held and it has to be stored. So that's a big issue. Um that is why the owners of As Good as Gold Australia have said, no, we only sell physical. Now, that doesn't mean that the physical gold will come from us and As Good as Gold Australia, and that will be that will back the digital technology slash the tokenization, absolutely. Um, but you have to make sure you're dealing with a company that has um, and mind you, can I just say um purity is a big issue as well. So 99.99 is the highest purity of bullion, gold and silver, and that's what we sell. So we go to the refineries and they make the best ones in Australia. Um, it's all Australian gold and silver, and the refineries create the product. We are selling, therefore, the retail product. Um, Perth Mint is the largest mint in Australia based in Perth. It's been around for 126 years. So um, you know, you do need to know um to a certain degree, and you can do some homework, but I think you can work out fairly quickly um what what you're buying, if you like, and how you're buying it. Um, I mean, we we all spend money, some of us save, then there's trading, then there's investing. And clearly bullion is an investment. You don't buy gold and silver today and sell it next week. Doesn't work that way. It's a mid-to-long-term investment. I think people are understanding it. And that's why we're also self-managed super funds to me is one of the most amazing vehicles because it's superannuation that you become uh self-managed, so you can control and you can buy property, bullion, cash, why would you collecting dust, cryptocurrency, bitcoin, and share stocks and bonds in your own self-managed superfund? I'm doing at least 15 consultations a week. Um, and again, we're looking, we're seeing younger people actually looking at wait, my future. So, you know, that is the dial that's changing, is people are looking now towards the future because there's so much volatility, so much insecurity. What can we do for ourselves? So I just wanted to throw in self-managed super funds. Um, because again, you can buy EFT shares, bonds, um, crypto, and bullion. Why not consider that? Um, the diversification, if I may just also mention, um, we don't have a set formula. It's really all tailored. So anything from from example, say you have a portfolio, we recommend sure around 10%, maybe 10 to 50% now gold and silver. What are the which ratios? The bars, the coins, the rounds. That's something that um myself and my staff, we um we offer that advice. And um, yeah, it's it really we just say, well, you know, what what can you buy that you can't afford to lose? And we we also listen to the experts in the globe who are experts in precious metals. They are billionaires, and they also um understand global economics, the financial system, and and all the intricate details. And Jeremy, I'm sure, you know, you've heard of the likes of say um James Rickard, Rickard's um Robert Kawasaki, Lynnette Zhang, Alistair McLeod, their familiar names. Um, we turn to them because we want to know what's going on, and then we can do our research and we start um also then advising. But for me, I just think make it really simple. Um start small if you want. Talk to Jeremy, talk to myself, my team. Um, you know, this is what we do day in, day out. We we give as much advice and guidance and hold your hand um to tailor what for your financial future because it's not about when you buy, it's what is your exit strategy that's even more important.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Some good points made there, I think, Kate.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Yeah. No, my head's spinning a little bit from all the information. It's just it's a whole it is a whole new world. And uh yeah, I'd yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

If you remember to diversify, that's it. Like, you know, when when I was younger, back in the olden days, last last century, you know, I I would buy, I I rented for seven years while I waited for the housing market to come down. Then I bought a house super cheap. Um, and within four years it had gone up by 260%. Wow. Whereas other people had been holding their house for like 10 years and go, yeah, yeah, I've doubled my money. Yeah, but for the first six years it did nothing. Um, so I used to jump in and out, and now I'm a bit older. So I get a bit lazier and I just go, you know what? I'm gonna have like five or six properties and a whole bunch of shares and a whole bunch of crypto and a whole bunch of gold and silver. And I don't have to jump out of which hoop into another hoop at the at the time. I do it a little bit, but I don't have to. And that way you can just go, you know what, when when gold was sitting flat for like six or seven years, or when silver price was sitting flat for six or seven years, you just ignore it. Yeah, get the feather duster out and clean it off occasionally. And and when property goes quiet for a couple of years, as long as you've held it for a little while and you've made 20 or 30 percent growth, if it drops back by 10%, who cares? You still hang on to it. Yeah, and eggs in different baskets. It's the thing. I'll I'll hammer that one till the day I die. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

I think we're all on the same boat there is diversification and splitting that up um without a doubt. But no, awesome. Some really good comments there and and got good conversation, guys. So hopefully everyone in our in our business community can listen to Kate and get some inspiration for and also just to take some action on this.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah, and that was great. Yeah, I guess that's the first step, isn't it? Start educating yourself. And that was our goal um with this um series is to give people some basic education on, you know, the full sort of um all the different aspects of building wealth. And yeah, I guess it is about taking those first steps, but it takes time, doesn't it? I mean, I was blissfully um ignorant to building wealth for the majority of my career um because I was so focused on you know um my my corporate career and then um building my own business. And like so many people, you end up in your 40s, 50s, suddenly like, hang on, my soup is actually not very, it's not a lot. And then you think, how did I get here? Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Every day, Kate, I and myself included, every day, that's what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

I look in the mirror and I can tell where I've been going every day. It's quite depressing.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

I can't give you the tip, guys. So, you know, we just say start now. Yeah, start now. Start small, start now. It'll make you feel quite empowered. I mean, that's actually my tagline. How you know to empower you. Um, and like I've got women who, oh no, I'm not gonna go and buy a Chanel handbag. Maybe I don't need another. I'll actually invest it because then I can pass on gold and silver, maybe to the next generation. So it's about creating not just for yourself, it's generational wealth as well. And you mentioned again superannuation, because people don't have 10, 20, 50, $100,000 in their bank account. Why would you anyway? But guess what? They've got two, three, four, five hundred thousand dollars tied up in superannuation. Yes. The question is that working for you? The superannuation company will always, that's what they do, they manage your portfolio. A superannuation company will always make money on your money. But are you making money on your money? So have a look. 10% yield to me is not enough when you've got 50% plus minimum gold and silver and other assets, as you know, Dean Jeremy have said.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

So uh 10%'s not enough, Carmel, when the when the price of your groceries and your insurance and your phone bill has gone up by 20%.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Correct. So yeah, and that's that's another discussion about what is the true the true figure of this, the Australian inflation. rate. But again, you know, in other conversation.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

All right, guys, Jeremy, any closing comments? Guys, we'll probably need to finish up reasonably soon. And it's just been look, it's a privilege to have you on and have a lively discussion. Kate, you would would you agree so I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface. I don't think we have either, but it's been it's just good to have an overview and have um different people's views on things. I think that's what makes this quite exciting about our Fiercely Financial podcast is that it covers a diverse range and I think each of them will appeal to different people and it will differ and with different risk profiles.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yeah. And and um just to our listeners if you have any questions about gold or booing please reach out to Carmel and shares and um alternative assets. Jeremy Boston does Boston Trading Co is it is an advisory company that helps people it's the world's first crypto mutual fund.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Oh yeah so most most mutual funds most most super funds are basically you know stocks and property um and so we started this 11 years ago. So people who are just don't have enough time to research every single stock they buy it they buy an index fund. People who don't have enough time to research all the cryptos and go is XRP better than BTC I don't know. We run the portfolio for them just to make it very very simple. Because that's that's what I get it excellent portfolio too we've uh yeah it's a it's it's been a privilege to be working it's made about 200% in in the last 12 months but you know you can see the charts online it's and it's diversified because that's our thing. Like when Bitcoin goes down how do you make money yeah or when when the pandemic hit and Bitcoin went down and the stock market went down we were actually diversified into the fiber optic cables because that's our bricks and mortar player right if if crypto keeps getting bigger and bigger and the internet keeps getting bigger people are going to use more fiber optics. We didn't know there was going to be lockdowns but as soon as everybody started for working from home on Zoom using the fiber optics the hospitality workers couldn't go to work so they sat at home watching Netflix on the fiber optics. So when Bitcoin went down and the stocks went down at the start of the pandemic we made 300% because we were diversified into something else. And that's that's probably what I'll leave with say diversify eggs into different baskets. It's been a cliche for a thousand years. And the other thing is as as you said Kate start small even if it's five or ten dollars into bamboo or rays or acorns or one of those little apps. But you can buy a couple of dollars in stocks and if you're smart enough to choose this shop over that shop or this insurance company over that phone company if you're smart enough to go shopping then you're smart enough to choose your own stocks and you can do that with a section of your portfolio.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

But for those that don't feel confident in the crypto market I just you know I saw your tagline is for Boston Trading Co. is it's like Vanguard for crypto. So you can actually take on that role for clients to set up and manage a portfolio for them.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yeah so that I mean any anybody can learn how to do it. It's very easy to learn how to do it but it's if you've got the time if you don't have the time then we'll do it for you.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah great that's good to know that I didn't actually know that that was an option for people that's really good to know. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and Carmel I love what you're doing to empower people through gold and silver thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Awesome thanks for coming on we really genuinely appreciate your time and uh lots of love.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yeah and please if you want to reach out to Carmel or Jeremy please do so. We will put their website and contact details in the show notes. Thanks so much everyone bye for one bye. Thanks so much for joining us today. If you're ready to take action you're invited to come and join us at our upcoming Fiercely Financial Action Planning workshop where you'll get direct access to all of our expert guests Sam, Rachel, Natalia, Mia, Jeremy, Carmel, and Dee bring your wealth questions, your specific situation, and let's workshop your path from business owner to wealth creator. Spaces are limited so we invite you to book your spot using the link in the show notes right now. We hope to see you there