Talking Wise

The podcast about logistics, self-employment, and what it actually takes to scale without the wheels coming off.

Talking Wise

Episode 5: Five myths that trip up logistics companies

March 31, 2026 • Talking Wise

0:00 | 36:17

Most businesses don’t fail because they can’t recruit drivers - they fail because the back office breaks when they scale. In this episode, Dan Richards, Deputy CEO at Wise, joins our host Chloe Tierney-Martin to bust the five most common myths that quietly cost time, money, and create risk for growing logistics operations - and shares practical steps to fix them.

From Right to Work checks to contracts, compliance, and governance, this episode delivers actionable advice for logistics business owners and operators who want to scale efficiently without drowning in admin or rework.

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Compliance slows growth.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

If you said to me, Dan, you start a logistics company today, you know, what would you do on day one? As soon as I've got, you know, a business that's, you know, going to be actually generating some revenue, I'd be going, okay, now I'm going to get my compliance in a good place because I'd rather start from a good position than try and fix it later. If you want to grow and you want to grow seriously, then taking compliance seriously is a really important thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

If we've got a contract, we're safe.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Your contract is your first line of defence, but if it doesn't match the working practices, it will just get thrown in the bin. A system can be a good legal defence. Yeah. But the bit of it that people often miss the word is a robust system. And robust means it's been checked, it's been vetted, you understand how it works, it's suitable to the environment.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Yeah, and do you think that comes from a lack of understanding or like compliance isn't naturally complex anyway? The misconception there is that Welcome to Talking Wise, the podcast for logistics and self-employment.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

And for companies that want to grow compliantly without the wheels coming off.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

I'm your host, Chloe, and I'm joined by Dan, Deputy CEO at WISE. Dan, who's this podcast for?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

This podcast is for businesses that are potentially looking to grow in 2026, but maybe have got caught up in a few misconceptions along the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

And just a quick disclaimer: this is just our guidance, not legal or tax advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So we're going to give you super practical tips that you can implement in your business immediately. And following the podcast, if you do have any questions, you can find out how to contact us in the description or in the comments.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Ready?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Thanks, Chloe.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

So you're here today to talk us through the misconceptions yourself and the customer facing team here quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Um and set the record straight.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, definitely. So I think you know, we've we've been doing this now for uh for you know six years, and you'd be surprised how many times the same things come up, the same misconceptions. Uh and I'll be honest with you, we we love it when people say, you know, some of the things we're going to cover today because it makes the job from a sales perspective super easy. Um so you know, when we get into particularly the contractual side of things and what people think they should and shouldn't do, I find it interesting, but then maybe I'm a bit boring. Yes, a bit boring. Yeah. Just keep it a bit boring. So all good. So yeah, shall we get into them?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yeah. So the first one, a one that's quite familiar, that our sales team hear quite a bit, is they've got a passport on WhatsApp, they've been sent one, they're covered.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, so again, like you said, you know, we get this all the time. Um it's m it really is prevalent when especially in smaller logistics companies where perhaps it was originally, you know, one guy that started out and then he recruited, you know, three or four of his friends to sort of join. Uh and because he knows them, uh, he thinks, oh well, I've got their I know they're British, or I've seen their passport once upon a time. Uh I'm covered. Uh, but when it comes to right-to-work checks in particular, it isn't necessarily that you know, it's that you've got proof that you know. Um and it doesn't matter if it's your brother, your son, uh, someone you've known for 30 years, if you haven't got proof that you've done that right to work check, it's a sign consequences.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yeah, and I think that's the bit that people get quite confused on quite a lot. Why is it the document is not enough?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I've the the the the thing with a right to work check is exactly that last word check. So I know we've got a uh a more feature-length sort of podcast on right to work checks that we're gonna dive into the detail on. Um but having the right to work and having proof of a right to work check are very two very distinct things. So what you're looking for with a check is that you've got a copy of the original document and that someone has said, yes, I've seen this alongside the person, so I know that it's genuinely their right to work. Uh so having a picture of it just isn't enough. You have to have an audit trial to sort of show that you checked it and that you followed sort of good process.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Yeah, and for businesses that only have the photo, what is the consequence of that?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I mean, look, this is one of those areas of the of the law, I guess, that can be a little bit grey. The the the the black and white guidance is that you haven't got proof that you've had done a check that you can get fined um by the home office. Um, but I think it would depend on the severity of what you've done and you know how the pattern of poor process that you've got as a business. Uh, but you know, it it's a it's a little bit like any investigation, you know, you get the wrong person on the wrong day and you could get a big fine. Um but you know, if you've only got photos and you haven't got proof that you've done a check, you know, the the guidance that that we would give is absolutely sort that out immediately, cover yourself um and and go back through and do a right-to-work check today. Yeah. They're not going to say, well, where was it three months ago? As long as you've got proof that you've done a right-to-work check and you've got a date uh alongside that, uh, you'd be covered.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

And is it a sense of not those that haven't done it, it's a consequence immediately, or could it come in a couple of months?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Again, I mean, um I'd be speculating if I knew for certain. Yeah. Um but it's often on spot. Um so on the spot fine. Uh and for some companies, you know, an on the spot fine from the home office of 40,000 and obviously subsequent sixty thousand, you'll shut a lot of companies down.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

So not one to get wrong.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

No. So the takeaway I'm getting from that is it's not the right to work document, it's the check that is the most important part.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

100%. Don't get me wrong, you you know, you you you need the document. You can't just go, yeah, checked it, write check on a piece of paper, that'd get a bit you far. Uh but yeah, you need the uh the document uh and proof that you've done the check, keep it secure, um, don't have it floating around as a piece of paper on a on a desk somewhere. You know, have a good system for filing it um and and make sure you've got accurate records and also appreciate that if it's not a permanent right to work, that you need to recheck that right to work in the future as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Uh is that where people get caught out as well?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, people do get caught out on oh, I did a right to work check and here's the proof, and it's got it expired in 2025 on. Well, yeah, when they did have the right to work, but uh you don't know now that they have the right to work today. Um, so tracking the expiry dates of non-permanent rights to works is also really important.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

If we've got a contract, we're safe.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, uh so this is a great one. This is probably one of the ones that uh you know the eyes light up when we hear this. Uh seldom have I known a company come to us with a contract and that contract be suitable. Um, so I've had some absolute horror stories. Well, it depends what side you are. Uh on our side, it's not a horror story, it's great news. Uh, but uh I've had, oh yeah, I got a contract, I've had it for years. Uh, and all my drivers sign it, uh, and then they send it, and I'm like, yeah, send it over, I'll have a look. Send it big, bold black letters at the top, employment contracts. Um, and you know, clearly, if you've got a self-employed driver, uh it's saying employment contract at the top is not the wording that you want.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

No.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Um, so uh a contract is not a silver bullet. Having correct contractual processes and procedures uh isn't either isn't a silver bullet either. Um, but fundamentally getting the terminology correct is clearly important. And where status is involved, if there's any ambiguity, a bit like any court case, really, ambiguity always goes inside uh in the favour of the smaller party. Yeah. Um so you know, the you've got to think about this a judge in front of you know a big logistics company and a and a driver who's you know gonna be using all the tricks in the book around, you know, I'm just a driver and I didn't understand. Um if their case is based on the fact that the contract you sent them said employment contract's at the top, and they're trying to claim backdated holiday pay and sick pay, uh, then I wouldn't fancy defending it if it's got employment contracts at the top.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

So where do people go to set the clear distinction between the contract and the on the ground?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I think you've got to start with it's a really good, it's a really good question because I think the what you've said there on the ground, and you're showing your internal compliance knowledge there, Chloe. Um but uh the on the ground part is the super important part. So, you know, one thing that we say to our clients is your contract is your first line of defence, but if it doesn't match the working practices, it will just get thrown in the bin. Um so you need to look at your contract template, you need to say, okay, does what this contract says match up with what happens on the ground? So uh because what will happen if you if it's an investigation is I look at the contract and they may come in and interview some of your drivers and they might say, Okay, what controls does your main contract have in place? Um so you know, do they tell you what time to arrive, do they tell you how to load your van, do they tell you how to deliver your parcels, do they tell you this, do you tell you that? And you know, there's some that are reasonable, if it's commercial terms, then you know they're perfectly fine. Um, but the what you don't want is for your contract to say one thing and for what actually happened say another.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Because you know, it's just like anything, right? If you're saying, oh, my contract's great, and here's what here's here's how I'm gonna defend myself, and they turn around and go, Well, none of this actually matches what happens, then you can imagine why that would be difficult to defend.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah, and for those that are listening that are thinking, oh, that sounds like me, my contract doesn't really match what happens, is it a quick fix for them to get things straight?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Depends. Quick, it's fairly quick to get a new contract, but fixing the sins of the past can be more challenging. Uh, and it depends, there's a few variables for that. So, how long has the current contract been in circulation? Um, how many drivers? So, you're talking about, you know, if you've got volume is not your friend in these circumstances. So, if you've got 300 drivers that are percentage on an incorrect contract, rolling out a new contract to them, you know, is a challenge. Um, so I think what I would suggest is dependent on the number of drivers you're dealing with, yeah, and you know, how long ago your contract was drafted. Um, what I'd probably start with is you know, the can the contract itself, do a review of that. Does it match up with the working practices? So that's your first question you need to ask yourself. Because if you come out of that and actually your contract is good and it matches your working practices, then then fine, you you're on your way. Um, but if you go, okay, well, this doesn't quite match up, so that's the first thing, you know. Can you get it redrafted? Um if it's fundamentally wrong, that's where it does become more challenging because there's potentially a re-education required at a driver level. So if, for instance, you are one of these people that's you know gone to a high street solicitor and said the words potentially I need an employment contract because maybe you, as the business owner, haven't understood what you need, and they've peninsula have given you uh uh an employment contract, they've done their job perfectly fine what they've given you, but then you've used it in an incorrect scenario. Reversing that requires education at a driver level again because really what you've got to make sure is that the people now that are going to receive the new contract understand the contract and they understand they're self-employed uh and all the sort of T's and C's that that come with self-employment. So sorry, that's a really long way of me not giving you an answer. Um it's case by case, yeah. Smaller, easier, bigger, harder. But if your contract's good and you're big, you're fine. If your contract's rubbish and you're small, problems. Um so start of an audit would be my my advice.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

But whatever the scenario it's worth to just review your contract and just confirm.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, I I think one of the other things, which you know is sort of an extension of what you've been talking about, is you again something I always say to clients new and old, very, very rarely will you have a contract that is exactly the same as it would have been twelve months ago because you know environments change, the requirements of your customers change, the commercials with the drivers change. And what you don't want is self-employed subcontractors on evergreen contracts, because the longer they're on a contract, the more they look like what they call part of the furniture. Um, so you don't want self-employed drivers feeling like they're part of the furniture, you want them to understand it's an engagement that can be ended at any point. So, one of the things that we recommend you do is you get that contract re-signed at least every 12 months, and as part of the process of getting it re-signed, is it's a good time to make changes to it and make sure it's up to date. Yeah. Um, so contracts aren't a you know one job done process, they constantly need reviewing and amending and making sure that they're current. Because again, you could have had a really clean, you know, super compliant contract uh two years ago, and now actually your business has fundamentally changed, you've bought new depot managers in new OSMs, the way that they treat and approach the drivers is completely different, and all of a sudden the working practices don't match what you drafted two years ago. So it's a constant iteration.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah, and I know contracts obviously can be really confusing. How would you summarise in like one short sentence this myth?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Good question. How would I summarise it in one sentence? Uh I think uh I think to reiterate what I said the moment ago, actually, which is contracts are a constantly evolving topic for any business. So you know, having a process to review those, even if you're sticking it in your Google Calendar um or on your fridge, right? You know, don't feel like you've got one you covered, you know. Constantly be critiquing yourself almost and and reviewing. So I guess the the the one liner would be have a process for contract reviews would be my sort of key takeaway. Don't think that you've done it and you can move on, because that isn't going to be the case.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

MP.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

I could think then. Next myth.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

And when I read this, I thought it was a bit odd. I think knowing our compliance services, but compliance slows growth.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah. Um so again, common common thing that we that we hear uh is that companies I think sometimes when we start talking to them, especially if they're new businesses and they're starting off in logistics, feel like if they start putting process in place to make them, you know, what we'd call gold standard compliance, that it's gonna slow them down and you know it's gonna cause them unnecessary aggravation. Uh and you know, you can you can make it you can make an argument for well, it's work that they're gonna have to do that they wouldn't have had to do, but I actually believe the exact opposite, which of course, you know, I'm gonna but uh I think the reason I believe the opposite is especially now in the companies that we're talking to at a at a parcel network level really value compliance, they want to work with compliant logistics companies. So it's a bit like us at Wise when we're going for a potential new contract, they'll ask questions like how do you approach security as a company? Uh and I'll reel off one of my favourite sentences, oh yeah, you know, we're ISO 27,000. Near that's coming. Yeah, uh, we're ISO 27,001. And you know what, believe it or not, that answers like 15 questions. Yeah. Uh and they go, oh great, man, my data guy's gonna be thrilled that you're ISO 27,001. Um, so I think I'm not gonna go as far as to say, you know, it's like ISO 27,001. Uh, but if you get into conversations with a new customer and they ask you questions such as, Do you have a contract between you and your drivers? And your answer to that question is yes, uh, then you know it's gonna be a lot better than no. Yeah. Um, so I would say that compliance can supercharge growth, actually. I think it's the opposite. Uh, and we've got lots of big customers that now will put um slides in their presentations talking about compliance because they know that the recipients are interested in that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Yeah, and do you think that comes from a lack of understanding or like compliance is naturally complex anyway?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I think sometimes people liken compliance to law and then people are fearful of the consequences of getting it wrong. Um, so it's a bit like anything, isn't it? If you don't really understand it, then it's easy to get it wrong. Um, but I think you know you it's not something that you should turn a blind eye to. No. Um I think just because you think you might get it wrong doesn't mean you shouldn't do something about it. Um so I know we're living in a world nowadays, and yeah, I'm gonna talk wise out of customers here, but we are living in a world nowadays where it's e it's more accessible to find out information. Um so you know you can uh as as you'd say, whack stuff into you know chat GPC and find out the answer. Uh now, depending on you know how complex your compliance is, you know, I wouldn't suggest that um because it can be wrong. Um but um I think if you're worried about almost stepping into it, do your own research and you'll find out pretty quickly that it's not something to be feared. But I would say my view on it is if you want to grow and you want to grow seriously, then taking compliance seriously is is a really important thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

And on growth, does compliance matter more for businesses that are scaling, or is it the same across the board?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I'd say it's the same across the board. Don't get me wrong, if you've got one or two drivers, then clearly it's not going to be as as important as if you've got a thousand, especially when you're talking at a process level.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Um, but yeah, the consequences are the same, it's just shrunk by the size of your organization. Um, but scaling companies, you know, if if you said to me, Dan, you start a logistics company today, you know, what would you do on day one? I would well, maybe not day one, because I'd I'd need drivers and contracts first. Um but as soon as I've got you know a business that's you know gonna be actually generating some revenue, uh, I'd be going, okay, now I'm gonna get my compliance in a good place because I'd rather start from a good position than try and fix it later. Um so I think you know don't put it off, I think would be my would be the message. Try and do something about it sooner rather than later.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

And is there like a common crack that shows for those that are scaling in terms of compliance? Is it the same issue that repeats itself or cuts first?

SPEAKER_01 19:10

No, not really. I I think you know it it depends on the environment that you're in and who you're providing services for. I think probably the most most common thing is how you're communicating with your subcontractors, you know. I'll keep using drivers as the term, but you can apply to any industry. Um, and pe the thing that people get wrong normally quite quickly is the communication uh and the understanding of what you can and can't say. Yeah. Uh so I'm not going to use the the French that I normally use, but get yourself into work, and I'm usually add a word into that over WhatsApp, uh, to someone that's self-employed is not the right way to talk to someone. Um, and you know, we've seen it in lots of quite famous cases that can be the basis of a status claim, uh, often revolves around communication. Because then if you're communicating the wrong message, it leads to misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

So I would say that the biggest thing people sort of get wrong is just how they're the environment that they're creating in their company, and that can be hard to reverse.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah. Okay, so I think to set the record straight, it's not compliance that slows growth, it's the lack of compliance.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Uh yeah, actually, that's a great, that's a great summary. Um Thank you. No problems. Uh uh, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say, you know, don't get me wrong, you know, some business owners are gonna be better at winning new customers and whatever else. I think you've still got to have some commercial acumen. But I would say once you're at the point where you can potentially win the business, I would say then yes, you're gonna be way better off being a compliant business than being an uncompliant one. And we know, you know, the companies that we're dealing with again at a parcel network level, they remove uncompliant companies. You might get in, but you won't last. So if you want to grow meaningfully over a long term, then yeah, getting compliance right is important.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Thank you. Next myth.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

I've got a system, so I'm sorted.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah, yeah. And again, you know, it sounds like a bit of a counterproductive thing for for us to be saying. Um, but you know, we come across businesses of all shapes and sizes, and some have made good investments into systems and processes already. Um but a system doesn't necessarily mean it's the right system. So I'll give you an example. Again, the eyes light up when someone says, Oh yeah, I've got a HR platform for managing my self-employed subcontractors. Uh, and if it's me or uh Simon Keys or anyone on the sales team, straight away I'm like, Oh yeah, uh show us this platform. Um bring it up on their screen again, employee portal, for instance. Uh we had, I won't name any names, but we had uh uh a prospect about a year or so ago who said you I've got a really great system and um yeah they log in and they they request their holidays on there and I'm like the alarm bells are ringing uh and I'm like yes got them here. Uh we didn't actually get them to be fair. Um but the alarm bells are ringing um and you know that what they'd done is they'd put an employee-based system into into a self-employed environment. Their drivers going on requesting holiday, uh, and straight away, you know, one of the sort of key principles of self-employment is or one of the key tests is lack of mutuality of obligation. All right, so put that in plain English. I don't have to provide you with work and you don't have to provide services. But you can understand why requesting holiday sort of is counterproductive to that, because if I don't have to provide you with services, then why would I be asking you to have a holiday? Um so and then you're putting yourself in a super difficult position when it comes to a status claim if you were to have one, because if I was the if I was the driver, I'd say, well, of course I was employed I had to request holiday. Um and then it's like, well, sorry, John, explain to me. John explained to me why your drivers had to request holiday. Uh oh well, you know, need to know that they were available to provide services or not. Okay, but do you not feel like that sort of straining to employment? Oh well, no, because you know they know they're self-employable, do they? Because what are we here for if that's the case? Um so I think the meth the I guess the point here is, you know, and we see this come up time and time again in legal advice. A system can be a good legal defence, yeah. But the bit of it that people often miss the word is a robust system. And robust means it's been checked, it's been vetted, you understand how it works, it's suitable to the environment. So I guess the the message would be uh a system is uh a good uh legal defence, but it has to be the right system.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, and in terms of the right system, why do you think people just choose an employee software?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

They're often you know what, uh uh you know, and I I'd sympathise for people, you know, they'll put on they'll probably go onto Google and you know type something fairly generic in. I need a way of onboarding people, and you know, it'd be loads of HR platforms that show up. Um and we know on the reverse side, you know, having done the marketing for this business for six years, doing Google ads for onboarding for self-employed is impossible because no one's searching for it, no one's putting in onboarding for self-employed subcontractors because you know they they don't understand that's what to search. Yeah. So I do sympathise with companies when they're first starting out because they don't necessarily know what they're doing's wrong and they've got the right intentions, they're they're putting processes in place because they want to do the right thing. But it's unfortunately when it comes to the world of status, it's easy to get it wrong. It's probably it's much easier to get it wrong than get it right. Um, and if you don't have the right guidance yourself and the right education, um, then you will put HR platform in and you will think, oh well, I need to know where my drivers can provide services, so you know they're gonna have to request holiday. And there's really easy ways of doing it in a compliant way, but it's only easy if you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Yeah, and even if they do have the right intention and it's just a lack of understanding, what happens if they are get caught?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Again, it just depends on the severity. I think you know, normally, and this is what the issue is, people get caught almost too late. Uh so they'll get caught at the point where a driver's gone to you know a no-wing, no fee solicitor and said, I believe I'm employed. Uh, and at that point, you know, it's too late. Um, so the consequences can be you know drastic. Yeah, it can be they can be as bad as you have to reclassify your whole workforce. Uh and that's happened, I mean, famously, it happened to I won't say any names, but a very well-known ride hailing company that everyone uses happened to them. Um, and you know, it was I think it was 10 drivers that formed a group action lawsuit and said, you know, we've been being treated like employees. Um, and at that point, you know, it's too late. Um, but um, so the consequences can be disastrous, uh, but they can be also not disastrous, you know, they can be, oh yeah, sorry, I got the terminology wrong, and you can fix it. Yeah. Um, but you know, again, it comes back to the previous point, actually. Bigger you are, the harder it is to sort of fix, uh, and and the degree of bad also depends. You know, if you've been doing everything employee style, yeah, employment contract, holidays, sick pay, if all that's embedded, uh, then that's a more difficult position to roll back from. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

So similar to contracts as well, if it's that in the system doesn't match what's happening on the ground, it's just a massive risk.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah. Yeah, is a massive risk, absolutely a massive risk, yeah. So uh and you know, we've had to be fair, we've had clients come to us that use ancillary systems, um, and you know, we've educated them and they've even got the systems to change their terminology. Oh uh so I'm sure we won't mind me mentioning his name, but uh Jamie from EcoDrive, he uses the system. He actually came to us and said, Can you review it and work out whether this is a good system for my business or not? I looked at it functionally, it was great. Um, I'm not gonna promote them podcast. Uh that's advertising. Um but I um I looked at the system, functionally it was great. There was a few things on there that we were like, oh Jeremy, be careful with these. And he actually went back to them and got them to switch off certain bits of the system to make it super compliant.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Love that.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, great, yeah. Good lad. I mean, he's a Man United fan, that's the only downside. But other than that, he's alright.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

No problem.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Last myth. Yep, and I think this is quite a classic one. Um, we'll sort it when we get bigger.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Yeah, you know what? It's sort of a combination of everything we've said, really. Uh, which is the the misconception there is that there's there's a few ways you can interpret that misconception. One will be, oh well, it doesn't matter, we're only small, no one's gonna care about us. Um that's first misconception. Uh, and then the other one is well, once I've got a bigger business and more finances, I'll I'll employ someone to come in and run this correctly for me. Uh and you know what, you can make a case in your mind for both of those things. But the consequences, whether you s if you're small, are you they're almost representative of your revenue as well. Yeah. So what I mean by that is if you're a hundred uh subcontractor organisation and you have uh ten right to work fines, you know, that's a pill for you to swallow. But if you've got ten drivers and one gets one, you know, it's the same ratio effectively. So and it's gonna hit you maybe harder because you haven't got as much margin, because you haven't got as much profit in your business. So I think the first part of it is, you know, I I think it's actually probably more disastrous for a small business than it is a large one. You know why, don't get me wrong, you know, if you're a small business, then you could argue that you haven't got as much built up in it and it's easier to shut it down and sort of move on. Um, but you know, you don't want to be starting from scratch every two years because you didn't invest in it in day one. Uh and then I think the other side of it is, you know, oh when we're bigger, you know, we'll have more money, so we'll invest more into it. Yeah, that's that's uh logical, right? You know, wise, you know, we've improved things as we've gone, um, but we made sure that we got the fundamentals right originally. Um, and you know, I I know what it's like, and I've worked in businesses, especially when I was on the agency side, where you go in, you know, and I'm talking low risk stuff because I'm doing like marketing campaigns, and they've had let's say an AdWords campaign running for you know five years and they're spending £100,000 a month on it, but no one's been maintaining it. And you look at it, and in ten minutes you've saved £30,000 a month off their budget, and they're like, Oh yeah, well we didn't want to invest in it because you know it wasn't a good use of money. Well, wait a second, just saved you £360,000 a year here. Um so I think for me, waiting until you're bigger is in your mind sometimes feels logical, but seldom actually is a good idea in practice.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

And do you think it comes from people get scared that the processes slow them down to begin with?

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yeah, I think probably does come from that, and also I think it comes from a little bit of oh well we're small so no one will notice.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Um, but I think you know, you and you're right, I mean like bigger organisations are clearly going to get a lot more heat than smaller organisations, but what you're gambling on really there with that sort of ethos is a look, yeah, look that you don't get caught. Um and you never know who's watching you or who's thinking, I know that uh Chloe doesn't do right to work, checks on her drivers. Uh and you know, unfortunately, you know, there's a bit of people out there. Um so just because you know you're small and you might think you're going under the radar doesn't mean that you know you can you you you can't get caught out. Um so again, you know, the the guidance here would be try your best not to wait and try and get the fundamentals right. And you don't have to have tons of fancy systems and thousands of people working in compliance to get it right. Um, but as I said before, easy to get it wrong, slightly more difficult to get it right, but in the long run, it's gonna save you a lot of time and hassle.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

And I feel like with this myth, actually all the myths, consistency is key, it's not just a one-time thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Agreed, Chloe. Consistency is key. Um, yeah, no, consistency definitely is uh definitely is key. Um it's uh I mean it's a saying for any business, right? I'm not gonna uh sit here and pretend that you know everything that we've ever done as a company, we've said we're gonna do this uh and stick to it. I don't know what you're laughing for. Um but you know, you don't always do what you say you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Um always consistently. Um but again, what I would say some things are not worth not being consistent on if that makes sense. Um so I'll give you an example. Um from a from a boy's perspective, we always do our ISO 27001 audits. There you go, a little ISO mention again, slip that in again. Um we always do our KYC of customers, we always make sure IVAC returns are filed, we always make sure our accounts are on time, you know, the stuff that we always do penetration tests from a cybersecurity perspective. Uh so these are things that we're consistent on. Uh we never skip. Um and then the fluffier stuff, like you know, organising staff socials, yeah, maybe they slip through the cracks. The fridge being full. Rude, unnecessary. Uh the fridge being full, yeah, which is a perk, not um not a mandatory requirement. Uh so I'm not gonna get hung out to try on the clean pepsters in the fridge of uh advertising. Um but um yeah, you know, you are um uh you're right, consistency is key. Um and being consistent on the things that matter are also key.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Okay. And to summarise, set the foundations first and then they scale.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

If you can, yeah, absolutely. Uh and again, it you know, it is difficult because if you're a brand new logistics business, no one's looking at you so they don't necessarily know. Actually, funny enough, I'm I'm talking to someone at the moment who's starting a brand new logistics business, yeah, part of the um uh AM uh David Lloyd Crow. Oh god. Uh yeah. Uh and uh just free advice basically in the gym in the mornings. Why not why not bother me while I'm doing leg press? Gotta do legs clearly. All right, don't skip leg death. All right. You don't want to be that don't be that person. Uh it's actually the opposite for women, isn't it? They never skip leg death. It's normally the way around. Yeah. Um anyway, moving on. Um but he's setting up from scratch, and because he's got the you know the the benefit of just ca coincidentally knowing me, he's asking me questions like what I should do, and I'm saying, well, you should do this and that. But that is very almost fortunate from his perspective. Yeah. Um, but what I'd say is if there is anyone listening that's just starting off in logistics or they've got five drivers or they've got ten drivers, you know, get the foundations right now while it's easy to put them in place.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Don't think to yourself, I'll wait till I win the next contract and I've got 20 drivers, because that is gonna, you know, be harder work.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Yeah. Okay, and to summarise and finish the um podcast, for someone um does nothing else this week, what are the three actions you'd say for them to do?

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Okay, um three actions that I would say do this week. At this podcast. At the back of this podcast, of course. Not just in general, go to the supermarket, um, make sure you've paid your gasometricity bill. Uh look after your kids. Um no. Uh three things that I would do. So I think first thing is if you haven't got a contract in place, start that process. If you have, do an audit of that contract. I think second thing would be really topical at the moment, and like we said, we're going to do a full podcast on it. But if you're not up to date on your right-to-work checks, then you know make sure that you're that you're doing that and you've got those in place. Uh, and I would say the third thing is if you're serious about growing in 2026 and you don't want the wheels to come off, yeah, quote TM, um, then invest in compliance sooner rather than later. Yeah. Because I think as the regulatory changes that we can see coming down the track, making tax digital for self-employed drivers, the right to work legislation, this compliance piece is going to become more and more important for businesses. So if you're serious about growing, start now.