When Everything Feels Split | Jessica Johns

Some seasons of life don’t fit neatly into categories.

You’re not all in at work.
You’re not all in at home.
And no matter what you choose, it can feel like something is getting less of you.

In this episode, I sit down with one of my closest friends, Jessica Johns, to talk about what happens when your identity shifts, your priorities change, and the way you’ve always measured yourself no longer applies.

We talk about:

•  the tension of motherhood and career 
•  learning to make decisions that don’t always make sense on paper 
•  and what it looks like to trust yourself when there’s no clear right answer 

This one is especially for the moms.

Pull up a chair, grab a drink, and join us Court-side.

About the Podcast

Court-side Conversations is a podcast about leadership, self-trust, and the moments that shape us.

Each episode features a candid conversation with remarkable women about the experiences that helped them trust themselves, navigate challenges, and move forward with confidence and integrity.

Hosted by Courtney Headley, founder of Center Court Collective.

New episodes released every other week. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think the most self-doubt that I have is after I had my kids. Because you you realize you have to split your time. And then, like, what? And do I let my children lose a little bit of me or work?

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Hi, and welcome to Courtside Conversations. This episode is for the mom. Enjoy. I am joined today by one of my besties. Her name is Jessica Johns, and she is one of the women that I admire most. She is an excellent storyteller and always down for a good time. So I'm excited that you're here with me today, Jess. Thank you for joining. Yes. Um, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you know me and then what you're drinking today?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Sure. Just a quick summary. I'm a mom. I have two children, a 10-year-old daughter and a seven-year-old son. Um, and I'm currently in the process of figuring out what I want to do with my life after grown kids or kids old enough to be able to not need me so much. Um and I know you from elementary school. So Courtney and I met in third grade. We knew each other through high school, went to the same college, and that's really where our bonds grew into something that is forever. So we raised our kids together, we're in the same phase of life, and um, it's just a really special relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, I agree. And what are you drinking? Oh, yes. I am drinking one of my faves. It's a white wine spritzer with some Sauvignon Blanc and uh the old trusty pample moon.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

And I what host would I be if I wasn't joining you in this? So I too am having a spritzer. So um can you give our listeners the 60-second overview of your career journey?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I've worked since I was able to. So I always worked in high school, worked all the way through college, um, worked a lot of retail, managed my own store, then moved into healthcare, which was um the worst. I would cry every day because I worked in the cut in customer service and it was literally the worst. And then um I got the opportunity to work for a branding company, which allowed me the opportunity to be more creative, um, to work with people more in a way that I prefer, which is happily um loves, loved that job. Um and then I had got pregnant with my second child and decided to take some time and just try to be a better mom because it was hard splitting work and motherhood, which I know a lot of moms deal with. Um, and then most recently I have been um independent contractor for um on-site events for corporations and just kind of help as needed with events that they have pop up. Love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

And before we move on to the five anchor questions of the podcast, I'd love to know what would someone not see when they look at your career journey?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Oh um, that's a hard one. Because I do feel like people would see that I am a hard worker, that I work hard and take pride in my work, but maybe they just wouldn't see the struggle of like the decision making and the choice between making more money or what makes you happy or trying to find where I fit in the whole career world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

I think a struggle that all humans and definitely women can can relate to. Um was a moment at work where you felt like you truly belonged or realized that you didn't?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

The first one that pops to my mind is um when there were ethical things that I didn't align with. And I finally had to make the choice between do I continue working for this company that doesn't stand for what I believe in, as far as like how they treat their employees, how they take accountability for um things that go wrong, where they place blame. Um I just couldn't sit in another meeting and listen to blame be deflected on other people when I did not, when I knew the truth. And I just I knew I just had to leave. Um and so that was really, really hard feeling like I had no choice but to leave. Something that I really put a lot of work in really the first time that I had a job that I really was excited and proud to like say that I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

So it was clear that you were in a place that was no longer um allowing you to be like in integrity with your values and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

And then I'm like, what am I working so hard for for someone that doesn't value the work that their employees put in, as well as giving them the praise when they deserve it, also.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

So that that was a hard lesson to learn. Yeah. Things can look great and feel great at the beginning and coming in, and then you just are like, wait a minute, what what happened here? This is not what I signed up for.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

It's it's courageous to to walk away from something that that you love and that at one point did bring you so much joy and pride. What's the best or worst career advice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

My dad, I love him. Love Bob. Love him. He's the best. Um, but he is very old school. He's very like, you work hard, you make money, you take care of your family at whatever cost. And so when I was leaving the healthcare job, because it was literally killing me inside.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Like I was so miserable. Um, and I got the job at the branding firm. I remember talking to my dad and asking for advice because I always go to him for advice. But he was like, Well, are you making more money? And I was like, No, it'll be like a little bit less, and the benefits are not quite as good. And he was like, Well, why would you take a pay cut? And I'm like, Well, dad, sometimes you just gotta listen to your heart. And he was like, your heart doesn't pay the bills. And I was like, Oh, I was like, I get that, but it's not how I want to live my life. Sometimes you just have to take the logic out of it within reason um, and just go with your with your heart. Like, what is gonna make you happy? And ultimately that makes you just a better person for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

I mean, you can't put a price on happiness.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

No.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Okay, when has your inner critic showed up for you throughout your career?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

I always felt really confident in what I was doing anywhere I've worked. I felt confident knowing that my work ethic and my like ability to want to do better would take me where I wanted to go. But so I think the most self-doubt that I have is after I had my kids because you you realize you have to split your time. And then, like, what? Um do I let my children lose a little bit of me or work? And I just and so what I wasn't showing up a hundred percent for either. Yeah. And that was really hard for me. Now that I've been home with my kids for so long, kind of just falling out of that daily routine of like having projects to do and you know, beginnings and ends, and I don't have that anymore. So that brings a lot of doubt into just where I go next, I guess, because it has been so long since I've had that validation of finishing a project or making a client happy, or, you know, I mean, all moms know it's not, it's not checking a box and being like, I got that done, or like they hit this milestone and it's because of me. And look at, you know, it's just never done and it's always changing, and every day is different. And it's very, it can be really difficult to see the rewards on a regular basis. So to like give yourself a pat on the back or to make yourself feel accomplished, it's hard in motherhood, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Tell me then about a time when your inner critic is present or when you've got self-doubt. Right. Um, how do you move forward anyway?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Any opportunity that comes my way, I feel like I try to take it and see where it goes. But as far as like raising children, I mean, I feel like we all have those doubts. And then you have those moments that are just so clearly like this is why like I'm doing a good job. And this is like I'm so proud. Um yeah, some days it's just hard to find them.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yeah. I mean, even when you were telling the story about your dad's advice, and he was like, Well, are you making more money? And you said, no, but still decided to move forward anyway. So how did you know to do that?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Because I am clearly way more of an emotional person. So for me, I kind of took my emotional side of knowing what I can handle and what I can't, and knowing that I can step into something new and knowing myself and my work ethic that I could eventually get somewhere that I would be at that same level. Or even if I wasn't, I would be happy and I still could pay my bills, and that was fine. It's like wasn't all about the bottom line. And um, I just knew myself and I would be so unhappy and such a miserable person, and I did not want to be that person. It's such a like a suck on every other part of your life if you're not happy. Yeah. Like it's hard to hide it. It's hard like it eventually seeps out, and you just are no not pleasant to be around. And if if you have the opportunity to take that chance or to change it, why wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

So yeah, I had I had to.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah. So it sounds like um, again, you're really clear on your values and what you're willing to accept and not accept, and that served you well. Yeah. What would you do differently if you could start again today?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I would follow that path of happiness. Like what makes you happy? Find a couple things that make you happy, feel them out, and then see how I can make a career out of this, or how can I be adjacent to this thing that I love and still make a life out of it. Because you always have life's so short, but life is long. Yeah. And um there's plenty of time to make decisions, to change course, to find a new path. Um, so don't you don't need to go all in on something that you're not sure about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen to yourself. Yeah. That's a great one because I feel like there's so much, there were so many other voices, and no one was listening to what I really wanted. But really, ultimately, you should just listen to your heart and what you want to do. It's your life. It's your forever.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Well, are you up for a lightning round? Yes, I am. Okay. So this is meant to be quick. First thing that comes to your mind, don't overthink. Okay, that's right. And these are work related. So okay. Virtual or in person? In person. Oh best workplace snack. Chips.

unknown 12:53

Obviously.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Least favorite office jargon.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Not in my wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Biggest workplace pet peeve when people do not listen. What would your younger self say if she saw you now?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

She would be really surprised. She'd be like, oh dang, girl. I don't know. I never pictured myself where I am now. So, like myself back in the day, like had a whole nother life in mind. Like, obviously, I always thought I'd have kids. I always thought I'd get married, hopefully. And uh I never career-wise thought I would be where I am right now. Oh, she would be surprised, shocked.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Well, my last question for you. I uh would love to hear what's bringing you joy these days.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Oh, that's a great question. Um seeing my kids happy and thriving is what brings me joy. And seeing them just like become who they are is pretty awesome. And just seeing them together with their cousins and you know, being close to my family, I'm just very fortunate. And um obviously you guys, yeah. Just being grateful and thankful for to have a group of friends that are so supportive and so fun. And I don't know, when you just find your crew, it's just very joyful.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

That's not blood, but you know, all of our kids call each other cousins, and that's just something really special.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Well, I'm gonna save this podcast recording and and show your kids when they're maybe 18 and won't actually appreciate it because right now they're like mom, but you're so embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Oh my god, why are you crying?

SPEAKER_03 14:44

But they will they don't know how lucky they are. Oh, you're save you as a mom. Well, thank you for joining me. One thing that I'm definitely taking away from this conversation is the power and importance of listening to yourself, knowing your values, and following your heart. Yes. Before we close, can you share with everyone your favorite toast?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

I don't have a favorite toast because I just like to go with my my heart. Yeah. And I I love any toast that just makes everyone feel the importance of the moment and just being with each other and the gratitude of it all.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

So what would you do right now? I would say cheers to you. I love you. Thank you for having me. And I'm so proud of you. And I'm so thankful to have you in my life.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Oh, right back.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Love you.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

I love you. Okay, listeners, thank you so much for pulling up a chair and joining us courtside. If any of this made you feel a little less alone or if any of this resonated with you, please do share it with a woman that you love and come connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm always listening, and I look forward to seeing you next time. Cheers.