Choose Your Pain: Trusting Yourself Instead of Playing the Game | Marlenne Johnson

This episode is for the woman who feels like she has to change who she is to succeed.

I’m joined by Marlenne Johnson, someone I’ve known for years and deeply admire for her honesty and self-awareness.

We talk about what it actually looks like to navigate environments where you don’t feel like you belong… and the choice so many women face:

Do I play along…or stay true to myself?

Marlenne shares her journey through HR, from trying to fit into a male-dominated environment to making conscious decisions about who she wanted to be, even when it was uncomfortable.

This conversation is honest, grounding, and a reminder that:

•  You’re not for everyone…and that’s okay 
•  Self-doubt doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong 
•  Community matters more than we think 
•  And sometimes the real work is choosing yourself, over and over again 

If you’ve been second-guessing yourself or wondering if you need to be different to move forward…this one is for you. 💛

Pull up a chair, grab a drink, and join us Court-side.

About the Podcast

Court-side Conversations is a podcast about leadership, self-trust, and the moments that shape us.

Each episode features a candid conversation with remarkable women about the experiences that helped them trust themselves, navigate challenges, and move forward with confidence and integrity.

Hosted by Courtney Headley, founder of Center Court Collective.

New episodes released every other week. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I have a choice to make, right? I I can either I I always think there's pain involved either way. There's pain in giving up yourself to play along. And then there's pain in not playing along, but staying true to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hi, and welcome to courtside conversations. This episode is for the woman ready to trust herself again. I hope you enjoy. Today I am joined by Marlene Johnson, a woman who I've known for a couple years now and who I admire for her depth and warmth. Marlene, thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Hey, Courtney Nell, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Can you share with our listeners just a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah, so um let's see. Uh I'll go to the personal side and then talk about like the journey of a professional. But um I live in Pennsylvania, the US, the East Coast. I was originally born in the Dominican Republic, migrated to the States uh when I was about 10, and have lived here ever since in you know different systems, different environments. Um, and that's just you know made me who I am. And um I live with my husband, we have three cats, um and work-wise, I have been in HR in some capacity for about a decade.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

What are your cats' names?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

My cat's names are Buck, Harvey, and Minerva, but we call Minerva Minnie.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Cute, cute because they're my children.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I love it. I love it. And then Marlene, can you share with our listeners how you and I know each other?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Hmm. Yes. So you and I worked at Net Linux uh for about three years uh or or so. We were in different teams, but um either ran past each other in different projects or just knew of each other because I think we I think you gravitate and are passionate about similar things that I am, and I think when you do that, you tend to run into people.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Yeah, yeah. Well said. You you whether you're trying to or not, you find your people. So exactly. And then um what are you drinking today with me?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

So I have a coffee with um some some, I think it's like butter pecan cream, but that's a coffee.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Ooh. Oh, and what is your mug? What is your mug all about?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

So my mug is of a woman, black woman, it says, I am proud of myself.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Oh, I love that. Love that. Well, cheers while we get started. Cheers to you. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey in HR? Like what have you done?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah, so um it, you know, my journey in HR is funny. I I originally went to school for psychology. I wanted to be a therapist. And uh, you know, someone said to me, it'd be good if you have a backup. And I double-majored in business after graduating. I wanted to just see if HR was per me. So I started out in payroll, uh, submitting payroll for like a thousand people facility, quickly got into like onboarding, employee engagement, talent acquisition. Then um I got into some of the like talent marketing, um, culture change, um, a little bit of employee relations investigations. Um, and then I pivoted into like more of the strategic side around with talent management, organizational design, change management. So uh I feel like it's been a little bit of everything.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah. Is there one part that you love most?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Uh what I love to do is transformation and um strategy, restructuring things, redesigning them, rebuilding, any way, shape, or form where I am reimagining an organization with leaders and people is my favorite thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

What I love to ask people is because we hear about your career journey, um, and anyone can kind of look at your journey on paper and see it for what it says. But what would someone not see when they look at your career journey?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I think that they would not see that. I think I've been through a lot, and uh a lot of it has been difficult, and I have kept my sense of optimism, I would say, and uh, and it's not optimistic optimism rooted environment my environment, but rooted in who I am. I think I come across very like positive, and I think a lot of people sometimes misconstrue that for uh, I don't know, like a lack of depth, lack of struggle, or a lot of times not even like understanding air quotes the game. Um, and I have made a decision not to play the game.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Whoa. Optimism not rooted in my environment, but rooted in who I am. That is uh that's powerful. How how did you get how did you get that? How did you get to a place where you were just so sure of who you are and you trust that?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Uh through a lot of work. I I you know I started out in a very male uh manufacturing environment. And I felt like I didn't belong. And I felt like I needed to change. And I kept thinking, like, what is wrong with me? Like, how do I how do I show up in the way that's gonna make me successful? And I it was just too taxing, right? Um and for me, it's been about like I have a choice to make, right? I I can either I I always think there's pain involved either way. There's pain in giving up yourself to play along, and then there's pain in not playing along, but staying true to yourself. And I think for me, it has just been a series of decisions of what's gonna be better for me in the long term. And uh I think there have been times where I I feel like I did everything right and still didn't work. So I'm like, what's the point? And I think when you find your people, um, they gravitate towards you. You don't have to do anything. And uh if you're not gonna be good enough for anybody for everybody, why not just be who you are? Uh so I think to answer your question, it's just been a lot of trial and error, a lot of conscious decision, and I think just a lot of exhaustion is not wanting to do something that didn't feel right for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah. Yeah. Choose your pain.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

You know, your pain.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Well, that's bit, yeah, dang. You just said like in HR, you were in you started off an environment that was um largely male dominated and and you really felt like you didn't belong. One of the questions that I opened this podcast with is, you know, if you could share with me an experience of where you either felt like you truly belonged in the workplace or a moment when you realized you didn't, and if you could talk us through what that was like for you.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah. So when I started out in this environment, there were a lot of males much older than me, uh, much hierarchically higher than me. And there was this unspoken expectation that you had to be like really bold, really loud, really assertive. Um and I would be in these meetings where I would see that, I would think about who I am, and I would want to get my point across. I would, I would, I want to be respected. I want to people to see that I'm talented, that I know what I'm doing, that I can make a business impact. But I I just it didn't feel right for me to do it in that way. And I did know who I was or how to do it a different way. So I think for me that translated into being quiet a lot, just like protect. And I'm gonna focus on the work that I can deliver like tactically, like the output, a presentation, a program, what have you. Um, and that just always made me feel very isolated. And at the same time, I worked with a group of women and that were older than me, more experienced than me, and they were just really vulnerable um with me around their experiences. And that made me feel like, okay, I can do this. I I don't I'm not alone. This is not strange. And we also formed like this really like deep friendship or like Bond. And I I think that that would built like this weird uh microcosm of like I don't belong, but then I also belong with these group of like super intelligent, talented, powerful women um in this environment, which uh I think that's why I stayed as long as I did.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you felt like you didn't belong because what was being asked of you, of like how you show up, wasn't aligned with who you are. And then you found your community that helped you feel that sense of belonging and you were able to really connect with them as humans.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, yeah. And I think the one thing I would say around being asked how to be, it's that a lot of times environments don't tell you how to be, but they set certainly set norms of what's like expected.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, totally. I mean, like what they say culture is not words on a wall, it's you know, the behaviors that are tolerated, essentially. Can you share with me the best or worst career advice you ever received and how that shaped you?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

There's uh a leader that I reached out to a couple of times for mentorship, and I would walk with him through different things that happened or experienced, and I I didn't know what to do or handled. And he told me when I'm going through really hard times and I don't know what to do, I asked myself, why would I have liked to have happened when I look back? And that just shook me because I'm like, oh, okay, it's not even what about what you want to do, it's like your future self. And um that I heard that at a at a time where I needed to hear it recently, and it's just it stuck with me.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, I love it. And what would you you know, five years down the road? What do you want to look back and say what happened? Yeah, yeah, that's powerful. When has self-doubt shown up for you throughout your career?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Like five minutes ago. I I um I think uh early on it was about finding my voice. Like, should I say something? Should I show up? Should I take space? Um and am I good enough? Do I have the experience? Do I fit the do I fit all the all the boxes? Do I check all the marks? And if when I do check all the marks, is like, is that good enough? Should I do more? And you know, when people don't want you, you can you can create additional boxes.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Dang. Yeah, when people don't want you, you make up new boxes that you're trying to check. Yeah. So when you're when self-doubt has come up for you, how have you been able to move forward anyway?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, I I think it sounds so simple, but I think admitting it, I don't feel good enough. I'm really insecure. Like honor what you feel, it doesn't have to be your fault, it doesn't have to be good, it doesn't have to be bad. But I think pretending that reality isn't what it is is just gonna make things more difficult. And um, I think finding community of people that you you trust, that you respect, and telling them how you feel. And like 99.9% of the time you find people that are like, I have felt that. And sit with that. It's your reality. You don't have to fast forward it. You make more informed choices about what you want to do if you are grounded in what you're who you are, what you're dealing with, what you're feeling, and what the situation is.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah. Honor your truth and find community. If you were given the opportunity, or let's just say, what would you do differently if you were starting your career journey today?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I go back and forth between nothing because it's led me to who I am, and I think taking more risks earlier on. Uh listen to my gut. But I can listen to my gut now because it's all the times that I didn't, right? It's like taught me, okay, maybe you were right. But I don't want to pass a lot of I don't want to pass like regret or judgment to like 10 years ago, Marlene, or five years ago, Marlene. She was doing her best with the best that she had, and um she, you know, molded me into the person that I am. So I have a lot of appreciation for her.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

That's right. Her experiences have made you who you are. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Are you up for a lightning round? Please, let's do it. Okay. So yeah, basic lightning round, lightning round rules. First thing that comes to your mind, don't overthink it. My questions are all work related. So just know that lens. Okay. Um, virtual or in person?

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Virtual.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Standing desk or sitting desk?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Standing desk.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

What is your least favorite office jargon?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Alignment, biggest workplace pet peeve putting in um responsibility on the individual for things bigger than them.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

What would Marlene 20 years ago say if she saw you now?

SPEAKER_01 14:37

You're kind of a badass. How'd you do that?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Um, yes. Yeah. Okay, my last question for you is what is bringing you joy these days?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

So I started a podcast as well. So podcast name is my story is not unique. Um, it is a place for people to share their personal lived experiences in work, outside of work, life story, different uh instances of things that they live through or haven't lived through. Uh, I I actually co-started it with my uh co-host Letitia, and that is a space where we talk to different people from all walks of life. And I think that there is this kind of unspoken expectation that your story only becomes worth listening to or hearing once you have made it. Your story is worth telling because it's it's real and it happens and it's yours. And uh, I think more the people that inspire me the most are people that are like me every day, just common people trying to make it happen. One day they're inspirational, the next day that they're scared. And that's where I'm finding a lot of joy and uh you know refreshment in life, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

You keep coming back to like the power of community, and that feels really, really just sort of like innate, like deep in you.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

I think it's the only thing we really have, right? Um it's like the the the epitome of like the foundation of being alive. It's just being being you and then like finding other people that you could do it with.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah. Well, I mean, I so appreciate your insights today. I the things that I'm taking away from this conversation are one, the power of of trusting and knowing yourself, and the power of community, just in healing and in feeling like you're not in this alone. I am so grateful that you shared with us. The last thing I ask my guests to do is um to share their favorite toast with me.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I was born in the Dominican Republic, and there's a very famous um sort of like thing that's said when people toast, and it's like um it's like uh arriva, abajo, afuera, adentro.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah, I love it. Can we do it together one time?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Sure, sure. So arriva, arriva, abajo, afuera, afuera, adentro. Cheers to us.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Cheers to you. Thank you, Marlene. And listeners, thank you so much for listening in. If anything that you heard today resonates, please do share this podcast with a woman that you love. And if you and I are not connected yet on LinkedIn, please come find me. I'd love to say hi. I'm always listening. And until next time, cheers. Let's catch a court slide.