No Flakes
Conversations about the music business with musician Jeff Suburu.
No Flakes
Episode 2. Gabe Rosales (Bassist for Jlo, Lynch Mob, Andy Summers)
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Hello Friends.
Today's guest is my buddy Gabe Rosales. Gabe is a Laguna Beach native that came up idolizing Victor Wooten but at the same time Slayer. He's one of the most motivated people I've ever met in my life. He found his way into some of the biggest groups of their time and also made a serious life changing turn later in his journey. Hope you all enjoy this weeks episode and follow me Here::
https://linktr.ee/JeffSuburu?utm_source=linktree_profile_share<sid=3b803763-6e93-4e1b-944d-c9fd7df575c1
I'm so lucky that I had music because I I was developing these really addictive tendencies because you know feeling abandoned from my mom, um uh also like I realized too now that the reason why I kind of dove headfirst into alcohol was because I was scared of my dad when he drank. Um and and he was also a dick when he drank. And so like when if I I kind of gave up on being sober once I moved in with him, I'm just like, I'm just gonna drink, and I'm gonna what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna drink as much as him to prove that I can drink more than him. So, number one, I won't be scared of him anymore. Number two, I um I'm gonna prove to him that I can drink as much as him and not be a dick.
SPEAKER_01That's Gabe Rosales. Episode two. Welcome back to the No Flakes Podcast. I've known Gabe for a very long time. Um fascinating person. He's had huge gigs, huge highs, and huge lows, which you'll hear. Awesome dude, funny as hell. Enjoy this episode of the Fun Play Game. Is it maybe uh No, no, it's gone. It's good now. Oh, dude, you're a tech.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Dude, good to see you, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Oh, it's funny. Like, every time I see your name pop up, for some reason Risky always pops into my head. Dude, remember Robbie Jacquidi used to call you Risky all the time? Like with T-Lo and stuff, dude.
SPEAKER_01That's crazy. Oh my god. I haven't known about T-Lo, and I was like, do we need to get to T Lo? Dude, it's so good to see you. And I've only done so far one other podcast of these, and I realize it's just so cool to just talk to people I haven't talked to in forever.
SPEAKER_00So no, for sure, man. Like you're one of my favorite human beings, period. Like, just like you're funny as hell, you're an amazing musician. Like, I've known you for I mean decades.
SPEAKER_01I mean like a decade now? Two decades. More two decades, dude.
SPEAKER_002003, probably.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that seems about right. I wasn't sure on the exact year, but I was trying to I was trying to track it. But um, yeah, dude, like one thing they this is all about you, buddy. This one's about you. I just I I started this one because I'm like, man, I have some interesting friends, you know, and you were the first person I thought of actually just you know, where you come from and where you're at now and what you've done, and and just like you're one of the most motivated people I've ever met. I know like when I used to like hang out with you, I would leave like hanging out with you, and I'm just like I need to do more stuff. Crazy. Like it's dude, you're just so on fire always.
SPEAKER_00Not not drugs, hopefully.
SPEAKER_01You're like, no, I mean just just more cocaine. No, dude. You just you're just always kind of like, well, yeah, dude, like I'm doing that, and then I gotta do this, and then and then everything you do, like and obviously the music thing is just like you're insane, dude. Like hearing you guys play when I first met all of you in Orange County, like just blew my mind. Like it was just like, what the hell? Like your tones, and you know, I was coming from little town in Bakersfield, no one was no one was playing F major seven chords as well.
SPEAKER_02It's so funny.
SPEAKER_00It's hilarious. Nobody was playing F major seven in Bakersfield, dude.
SPEAKER_01At least nobody nobody knew it. I mean, corn might have had some in there, but yeah, only a friend. That's more of a Vicellia vibe, dude. That's so um, yeah, man. I thought it'd be fun to kind of like take a little trip down Gabe's memory lane, dude, and kind of just tell tell your thing, dude, because I what I know about it is it's super interesting. Uh you're where you you still live in Laguna Nigel, yeah?
SPEAKER_00You're I'm in uh no, I'm in Dana Point, so I'm like just I'm close to the ocean now. I'm like a couple blocks away from the beach, which is dope. I love it here. I grew up here actually too. Like I went to elementary school, literally like three blocks away from where I'm living right now.
SPEAKER_01So uh bad the mean streets of Dana Point, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh super brutal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I see your post sometimes of just like a picture of the beautiful horizon, you know. I'm like, oh my god, dude.
SPEAKER_00It's so it's one of these like these cities too that's still like reasonable to me in some way. Like it's uh um in terms of like like living here practically, uh because other places are just you know like Laguna is just like astronomically expensive now. A studio is like a studio's like five grand, and it's just like what are you doing? It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01I know it is crazy. So but did you you originally weren't you from like San Jose or something? Did you live in San Jose?
SPEAKER_00San Juan Capastrano, which is the next city over there. Yeah, well, but but I lived in Santa Cruz though for a couple years.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that makes sense. I knew there was some kind of nor cow. I knew there was some kind of norcal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was uh um you know, like uh I'm full-blooded mexicano, right? My parents met in Mexico City. My mom was like um, she wanted to get in touch with her Mexican roots after she graduated high school, so she went and lived like in Mexico for like right after she graduated at high school and then and was down there for a while. And that's where she met my dad. They met in Mexico City, they fell in love, came back here, and then I was born here um in in Orange County. It's just one of those weird things, luck of the draw, you know what I mean? Like just being in a great place. Um, I can attribute all that to my grandma too. She bought property down here like way back in the day. Dude, she bought a house in Laguna in like '68 for like a hundred grand or something. Like a fucking dude.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's nuts. I think I actually saw that house. You live did you live there for a while? Like when I knew you. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Man, exactly. Crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's nuts, man.
SPEAKER_01So amazing.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, so that this whole area has just kind of like been the family vibe for a while for me, you know what I mean? And then uh parents got divorced when I was really young, when I was eight. Um, dad's alcoholic, even though he was a provider, you know what I mean? So it's one of those things where like um uh my parents like uh you know, you go back and forth between your parents' house, mom's house, and dad's house. I do. And um, and when I was like eight, my dad, you know, like in the middle of the day, like, you know, I was an only child. He got so drunk he passed out like out cold in the middle of the day. And you know, I was eight, I didn't know what was going on. I was just like, what the like I thought he had a heart attack. I called the paramedics. Um, and like um the paramedics came and they're just like, Oh, he's drunk. And my you know, my mom was like, Oh, you can't uh, you know, you can't stay with him anymore. He's obviously not a responsible adult to take care of you as a child. Um, and so she didn't let me see him for a while. And she got uh she continued after they got divorced, she continued with her education. She graduated from UCI, undergrad, then she got accepted to do a master's program at UCSE in Santa Cruz. So she took me up there, and that's the reason why I ended up up there is because she took me um to finish so she could finish her grad school. But uh, you know, teenage angst, man. Like I was 14 years old, that's when I started playing bass um in a death metal band. And the only reason why I started playing bass was because I was doing vocals. I was like a I was just going, you know, uh like poetry. I was like, just you know, doing vocal. We had a guitar player and a drummer, and the drummer's like, hey, we don't, you know, we don't have a bass player, like I have a bass in my house, why don't you take it home and mess around with it? And then I did, man. I took it home, and then it was like I was doing bass and vocals when I was like first show when I was like 14, junior high, playing Sepulchre Slayer, um DSide, um, just bumming all the parents out, you know.
unknownHorrible.
SPEAKER_00It was super brutal, dude.
SPEAKER_01Man, good on you for taking up bass because I was the same in when I was 14, except my best friend was a guitar player, and we had a drummer, but neither of us wanted to take the plunge and play bass. So we just had two guys. I'm like, I think back, I'm like, dude, if I would have just played bass, like we might have done something, man. We might have done something.
SPEAKER_00Look at you now, man. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm talking to you, you know. Um you kind of took the bass on a level. So from what I know about your um kind of like how you got into playing, you were in Laguna, right? And wasn't it your girlfriend's wait no? How did you meet Paul Pesco? That was your connect. That was your connect, right?
SPEAKER_00Um I started buttonheads with my mom in Santa Cruz. She kicks me out of the house when I'm 14 years old, right? Um, and this is all kind of like part of the story, you know. It's like uh um so you know, the abandonment issues because I was like pissed that she took me away from like my dad and also like my friend friends in Southern California, and then you know, like she uh she was like, I can't handle you anymore, you can't live here anymore, you gotta leave. And so um I'm like, I thought my dad was too scary for me to live with, you know, and so she's like, No, I can't handle it, you gotta go. And um, so I moved down there with him, and that's kind of like when and I didn't know anybody, right? So I was practicing 16 hours a day, um, every day for an entire summer, like my my uh the fresh the summer before my freshman year in high school. And um, so dude, I think honestly, like my most that was like the heaviest I practiced because I didn't know anybody, I had nothing else to do. So and I had, you know, back in the day, night this is like 93, um, you know, no YouTube, none of that stuff. So it was like I had a VHS video tape of Victor Bootin, and I fucking wore that shit out of the thing, man.
SPEAKER_01There it is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just like, oh, I gotta get this thumb technique down, you know, and like and then I recorded myself with this little tape recorder, and um, and I was showing kids and you know, the the that's how I kind of like got into the scene, I guess, in my freshman year in high school was like I had recordings of myself on bass and I was playing them to other musicians, and they're like, Whoa, that's you, you know, and I'm like, Yeah, do you want to join my band? So then, like bait literally, dude, from freshman year through senior year, it was rehearsing with a one band Monday and Tuesday, another band Wednesday and Thursday, and another band uh Friday and Saturday. And then Sunday was kind of like up for grabs, we'll see who won't rehearse then.
SPEAKER_01And uh and this is in Laguna, yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is in Laguna, right? Exactly. And so the singer of one of my metal bands was working at a pharmacy. The owner of the pharmacy had a son-in-law who I mean they weren't really married yet, but he was living like you know, daughter's boyfriend, um, who was Paul Pesco. Yeah, and so she's like, Oh, you guys are so sweet, you know. I love Living, you're such a nice kid. I'm gonna have my my son-in-law come check out your rehearsal. And so Paul Pesco came up, you know, met him for the first time. We were all excited, you know, 17-year-old kids, like, oh my god, this because he's Paul Pesco is you know, world-renowned international musician, toured uh with Madonna, played on everybody's stuff from the pe from like the early 80s to like you know I mean till today. Like, I mean, the guy's a legend, right? He's played on everything, dude. You look at his like discography, man, it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy, yeah. Big time session guitarist, producer. Um so I didn't really I mean, obviously he is a LA or uh West Coast guy. I thought he was New York for some reason.
SPEAKER_00But I guess that he started in New York, but he was going back and forth, and like literally, like he's one of those nomadic dudes where like he could go where the work is, like he'll get a gig that's in another, you know, someplace else, and he'll just move there for a while. Um I mean he lived in I think he lived in Hawaii. Um, I think he lived in Canada at one point. Like, dude, he's like all over the place, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wherever it's at.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, except for um not Bakersfield, unfortunately. I'm sorry, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know there was no Paul Pesco's out there. Is your name Paul Pesco? Yeah, do you know any session guitar players? Like, get out of here.
SPEAKER_02Jesus. I can't imagine wild.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um Yeah, so it's amazing. You meet you get this connect. And what was what was like uh how did that work? Like, because you're like a shredding bass player, and he was like, All right, kid, like I got a gig for you, or like what did you do?
SPEAKER_00Kind of. I mean, it wasn't like that. I mean, it's like I was um so uh keep in mind too, like I was we were all drinking and smoking a lot, right? It was like yeah, and I mean being kind of where I'm at now, like in terms of like my head space and the things that it's like I'm so lucky that I had music because I I was developing these really addictive tendencies because you know, feeling abandoned from my mom. Um uh also like I realized too now that the reason why I like kind of dove headfirst into alcohol was because I was scared of my dad when he drank. Um and and he was also a dick when he drank. And so like when if I I I kind of gave up on being sober once I moved in with him, I'm just like I'm just gonna drink and I'm gonna what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna drink as much as him to prove that I can drink more than him. So number one, I won't be scared of him anymore. And number two, I um I'm gonna prove to him that I can drink as much as him and not be a dick. So um, but luckily I had music to, you know, I was in a rehearsal studio doing drugs, I wasn't on the street doing drugs because if I would have been on the street, like I could have ended up like anybody, you know, anybody else. Like any, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01It's like having an outlet and yeah, I mean, and then the the addictive personality, I think most of us musicians, like it really you could see it just based on what we do. Like it doesn't take it's it's not normal for someone to sit and play for 16 hours doing something, you know, and but that's it's all part of this thing, you know. We all have kind of like this this built-in ADD that we didn't know what it was back in the day, you know. Right, so it's easy to just move it over to something else where you're like, well, now this is the thing I'm also doing, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so and this perfectionism too, and then like uh comparing yourself to other people, and like and then performing the high of being on stage and performing in front of somebody, and it's like this dopamine spike, you know, and like um, I mean, all everything that comes with it, you know what I mean? Like um, and so like, yeah, Paul was he kind of took us under his wing, the whole band, and we started recording. Um, you know, the way bands go, it's like we're like, oh, we don't like our drummer anymore, we're not getting along, so we're gonna get a new drummer. And then as soon as we got a new drummer, the whole dynamic of the band changed. Um, Paul kind of lost interest in that band, like different conglomerations of the bands, you know what I mean? Um, but because there are no bass players, he's like, um he's like, you're young, you're good, you know what I mean? He's like, would you, you know, at first he he got the um he started producing this lynch mob album with George Lynch. Yeah uh the this new one, this new hard rock stuff. George wanted to go in a different direction and do more kind of contemporary stuff, you know, it was like mid-90s, you know, corn, olympizcuit, all these guys are are um had already came came and are have like you know established themselves in that that kind of realm, this new metal vibe. And I think George kind of wanted to go in some kind of direction similar to that, not get a move away from the 80s, you know. Um move away from all that fucking makeup and hair and fucking grass.
SPEAKER_01I think that was a King Diamond reference. It is, it is.
SPEAKER_00I say that all the time, I sing it all the time now. Um yeah, and so there wasn't a bass player, Paul Pesco was gonna play bass on it. He's like, Hey, you want to play on this this Lynch mob album I'm working on?
SPEAKER_01And I was like, Hell yeah, I was 19, you know, I hadn't uh were you you you were I'm sure just being a musician, you were aware of George Lynch, right? Yeah, so you're like shit, that's a name. That's cool. Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00You know, and of course, I mean I grew up playing death metal though, so it was like that style of of hard rock and metal I wasn't into at all. Like I was listening to I listened to Queen's Rike and like stuff like that, like back in the day, but I was never into like hair metal, you know. I was never it was always just like I mean it was death metal, obituary death, cannibal corpse, geocide, um, all that stuff, you know, and just um like really dark, evil shit. And um, but it was cool because I was like, why not? You know, it's like I'm totally down. And if and if George Lynch wants to go in this direction of playing something maybe heavier than of like, and I loved corn, so I was like, Yeah, let's do it. Um, and so I kind of got like I recorded on that album and then I went on tour. So I turned 21 on the road. Um, you know, I wasn't even allowed to be in the club at that time.
SPEAKER_01Amazing, so young, dude. Like thinking about it, like to be that young and get put in such a professional. I mean, regardless of what tier you want to call that, to be just like I'm a professional musician and I'm with someone that's known, and they're giving me something, and I'm surviving out here just on the like the the level of not have anybody looking over your shoulder is a dangerous recipe.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude, it was exactly well. I mean, yeah, because imagine, you know, like um it's a hard rock band. I had a blast, nobody in the band really did hard drugs, but the drummer was an alcoholic for sure. Yeah, um, and so him and I together, and of course bass and drums, and so together we were like a fucking shit chill, man. And um, and you know, like and then the not having the responsibility when I was, you know, um the formative years of your early, you know, late teens, early twenties, it's like the responsibility of like rolling out of a a tour bus. We had a previous, like a pretty nice one. So it was like that was my I never had to do like the you know, it was nice, it was cool because George was older and didn't want to have to deal with all the crap. He he did all that already. Um and then you play the show where the headlining acts, and then you just you could like destroy the venue and just be a shit fucking asshole, and then you roll into the bus and go to the next city and the next state, and then like you don't have to ever see those people again, you know?
SPEAKER_01It's like it's it's not good training to be an adult. No, dude. Exactly. I I think about some some artists and uh you know musicians that kind of get to do that and never run into the bad times, and they get to just continue to be that way. And it's like, oh, they like they just started when they're like 17, got famous, got to destroy the venues, got on the bus, and nothing ever happened. And so now they're just walking around kind of being douchebags for the rest of their life. For sure, you know what I mean? And it happens. I mean, it's kind of rare that you don't run into the bad times, but uh you know, sometimes when people like I mean, just certain musicians that are rock stars, you hear them talk and you're like, what is wrong with this guy?
SPEAKER_00It's like, well, he that's he's still 17, you know, even though it's like the only responsibility he's had is music and like exactly like showing up and being the center of attention. I mean, like it's crazy to think about, you know, and then like um and exactly like I turned 21 on the road, like you know, so I came back from touring after a couple months being gone. I mean, it's not like I made a bunch of money, like you know, um, I was still living in my parents' house, you know, and I came home, but I was still like out of my, you know, out of my mind, like yeah, destroying places that I was like in my neighborhood, you know. And um my friends were like, You can't keep doing this shit, bro. Like, we know these people, like you're gonna see them tomorrow morning. Like, you can't like pour candle wax on your fucking chest at in the middle of a restaurant while people are eating food. Like, we know the owner, like what are you doing, dude?
SPEAKER_01Uh you're like, do you know who I think I am?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's exactly it, you know. Like, I can do whatever I want, blah blah blah. You know, it's like, dude, it's so terrible.
SPEAKER_01But so in somewhere in there, uh, is that how you hooked up the ESP uh deal? Because you've been playing ESP forever. And this isn't really this isn't a total like gear, honestly, musician podcast, but I'm interested in that shit. So yeah, oh no, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Well, George Lynch has been like the longest ESP. I think he is the longest ESP in Dorsey. Is he? Yeah, yeah, Mr.
SPEAKER_01Scary.
SPEAKER_00That fucking Mr. Scary guitar has been around forever. Even before that, like with Dawkins, when he was playing with Dawkin, like he had a um, you know, the the tiger thing, he had a like a kamikaze guitar, like and I think um he knew like the original because ESP, you know, it's a Japanese company, and like the the um so George was friends with like the the owner, the guy that started ESP, because ESP just stands for electronic sound products or something. Because they're like it like you know, the Japanese weren't sure like what to call it, so they're like electronic sound products. Let's call it that ESP, and like that was the name. That's where ESP got the name. Um crazy. Yeah, it's hilarious. And so, yeah, he is the oldest endorsee. So, like by default, as soon as I started playing with him, and I'm like, you know, I remember my the first time I got a free base because of uh an endorsement, like walking into the ESP factory in like Studio City and like walking out with a five string, and I was like, like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_01Like it was I mean, yeah, you you you probably went straight to the restaurant and poured candle wax all over yourself.
SPEAKER_00That's that was part of it. That was yeah, initiation.
SPEAKER_01You're like, you know who I I did it, yeah. And so I mean, George, anybody that doesn't know George is jacked, right? Was he jacked back then? Like he was then, yeah. He's not anymore, but I mean he's ripped still, but he's like Yeah, I mean he's he's a legendary, just like lifts weights and and like totally jacked. Um does he live in Laguna?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. He lives uh like north of LA, like around Castake area, like outside the outskirts of Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I remember this. If you want me to edit this out, I can edit anything. I just remember one thing you said about being on the road with him one time. You're like, you're like, bro, it was just freaking steroids and Jack Daniels.
SPEAKER_00Like I mean, I never saw him doing that. I mean, like he was he I mean he was doing something because he was like huge and he'd like he'd kind of go on like roid rages where he'd get pissed off at like Sound Men or something, and just be like, um, so for sure. At this time too, he wasn't living in LA, he was living in in Arizona. And so like I was like when I was recording the album and then also like rehearsing, like I would spend a lot of time in Arizona, Scottsdale, Tempe, he lived in Cave Creek, so I was out in Cave Creek a lot. Um and this is like yeah, late nineties.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And did did you like cause you've always been like lift you've always lifted weights and stuff, like were you into it then? Or were you more okay, cool. So it was like awesome, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was like actually like I mean like a musical father to me in a lot of ways, right? Because actually I was the same age as his son, like when I first started playing with him. And um, and so we'd go like and I was staying, I was living with him because I didn't have a place to, you know, like I it was cool, it was fine. So I'd live with him and we'd, you know, we'd go lift weights and then go to rehearsal together. It's like and it was fucking pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. You you were one of the first ones that I met that was like someone that lifted weights and worked out, and you're a shredding musician. Like it's just it's just a thing that like I didn't see too much. It's like, no, you gotta be like skinny and just like work on just you don't want to hurt your fingers, and you're like, nah, dude, like I lift weights and like I work out, and and now I'm always like, yeah, dude, it's it they go together, it works good.
SPEAKER_02Oh, totally, 100%.
SPEAKER_01Which I thank you for doing this because I know this is probably peak gym time, bro. But okay, so let's keep moving. So like you play with George, and then where's where's the transition? What happens after that? Because I know you got a big gig after that, too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. Same thing with uh it was Paul Pesco, man. Like he was just like my kind of like uh he helped me out. Well, you know, and then also getting in the scene, you get names of of people that have uh um that that will kind of help musicians get go to um you know auditions and stuff like that. So I started getting names of of uh you know guys that were big in the industry that would give you decent auditions where it wasn't like you know, guys that banned up-and-coming bands.
SPEAKER_01Was it Barry Squire? Yes, it was Barry Squire. That was Barry, man. He's a legend. Rest in peace, Barry, because yeah, uh, he passed away last year. Oh no, really? Yeah, sweetest guy, sweetest guy ever. I never got anything out of him, but he was very nice to me. So, wow, that's crazy. I didn't know that was a Barry Sitch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So he sent me a lot of stuff, but I was also like, you know, I was fucking still drinking and stuff. One of the other parts of the story is that like, because I, you know, uh um to kind of um offset this chaos, my when my friends were like, you can't keep doing this. My buddy Alec uh Bridges and Max Vega, um Alec went to this meditation school where you meditate 16 hours a day in silence for 10 days, and um there's nothing, you know, you're just meditating, they teach you everything there, but you're gone for 10 days in silence. And um he, my friend Alec, came back from that experience, and he was like a different person. Like I'd known him growing up because I played it in all the bands with him, and he was like more confident, he was at ease, like there was just this thing, he was like if he felt different, and I was like, man, I need that. Whatever he did. And so I went with my friend Max um to go to this meditation retreat, and this is like 2000, I think. And uh it did, it really completely changed my formative experience and how I see myself in the world. Um, it like it changed everything for me. Like I felt like I was on mushrooms, but even deeper than that, because it wasn't a drug-induced thing, it was like um like a reality, like uh kind of like veil lifting off, you know, your head kind of thing, and then also like a piece. But I mean I didn't stay consistent with my practice, and then I also was like getting better gigs, and then I fell into um, you know, it's like you if you're hanging out with people that are doing drugs all the time, you're like, okay, well, I'll just try this this time. And so I was sober for like three months after I came back, but then it was like it was almost like I came back and started doing harder drugs because I was like, I'm not gonna drink, but these people are doing ecstasy. I've never done that before. Let me try this, and then did that, and then it was like, yeah, it was nuts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I didn't know you did that so young. That's pretty impressive that you, you know, were like you had well that you had friends that you knew that were responsible enough and smart enough to do something like that at that age, you know. Yeah. Um, so yeah, you must have been what, like 22 or something when yeah, literally, yeah.
SPEAKER_0021. Yeah, 22 is I think it was exactly 22.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00It was crazy. It was uh, yeah, and then it was like came back, and then Paul Pesco again. He um I was going to different auditions and stuff like that, but then he became the musical director for Jennifer Lopez and was like, hey, you know, they want younger players, they don't want like a bunch of old dudes behind this pop star, you know, they want like younger Latinos, right? And he like, um, you just did this gig and you pulled it off. So do you want to play with Jennifer Lopez? It's pop music, it's like it's four notes over and over and over and over again. You just claim in time. Um, so I'm like, and like you know, I had pictures of Jennifer Lopez all over my wall with Samuel Hayek and like all the all of them. Yeah, so I was like, Do I want to play with Jennifer Lopez? Yeah, for sure. And at first, you know, it was like she was an actress, so it was like the idea of her making an album was a joke, you know. It was kind of like like whatever. I mean, she's I mean, not like she, you know, whatever. It is what it is, but um, and you know, at the same time, I was like, Yeah, of course. Like, I don't care, like I get to travel, I get to do stuff, like, and I'm like, I want to meet this chick, you know, this is gonna be blast. Um, and so yeah, I ended up doing that gig for a couple years. Uh, we did SNL a couple times, um Women's World Cup tournament. I got to do tour, did a like a promo tour for a second album in in Europe on a private plane, like just bouncing from country to country in a private plane and shit. Fucking crazy man. Yeah, that's insane.
SPEAKER_01And you did were were you on any weren't you on a video too?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was a music video, uh be uh I'm real, like the first one she did before.
SPEAKER_01I mean, huge, massive. Yeah, I remember you told me a story about the private jet part where you're like, you're like, yeah, man. I was like flying in a private jet, like taking a piss, like pissing out Chris Tahl. Dude. And you're like, what is my life right now? Like what is happening? Totally, completely ridiculous. And you were like, you're like 20 something, right? Or 20s. That is just wild.
SPEAKER_00Everybody else in the band's like in their 40s, and the drummer literally looked at me and he's just like, You should really be enjoying yourself right now. And I'm like, What do you mean? He's like, he's like, it's all downhill from here, bro. Like, there's nothing you're gonna be like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you if you're on a private jet and you're it's like it is it is kind of downhill as far as like the where you're going, you know, on uh the professional level. I guess there's different ideas of it, but um so crazy, man. Um yeah, because that's being part of such a huge artist, and not only is such a huge artist, but the beginning of it, yeah, is huge. Like that's it was a next thing. Yeah, because that's that's like the busiest time. They're like really grinding and like man.
SPEAKER_00And it was not like one when at that time too, she had like the number one album and also the number one movie in the United States because she just did the wedding planner. So like it was like um, and then she was also dating freaking Puffy, uh P. Diddy or whatever you want to call him now. Like, I changed his name eight times. Hashtag Diddy, yeah. Hashtag, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, wild and crazy. Um, and actually I I remember hearing uh because I it's not something I paid attention to, but if you listen to it, the bass lines are pretty cool, yeah, actually, right? It's like that 90s to early 2000s bass was pretty cool. There was some vibe to it for sure. There was actually movement and stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I guess we're good producers, you know, like some of the production was cool, um, it was fun. There wasn't, you know, like Paul was the musical director, so sometimes he'd give me little spaces and be like, Yeah, you want to throw in some like Victor Wut and Slap stuff, like do that, you know, and so um just to kind of embellish a little bit and get to showcase your talent a little bit, you know what I mean? So he like gave us that room, um which was dope, you know what I mean? It was cool, yeah. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so throughout all when did you know Jimmy through high school? Jimmy E our legendary.
SPEAKER_00So it was also part of that band thing, too. So it's like, you know how that first band that Paul Pesco was uh producing? Yeah, um, after like two different iterations of that band, we're like, we still want to get produced, we still want these songs to be out there. So um let's just go back to the original like lineup and just see if we can do this because um these songs need to be out there, but you know, the singer didn't want to come back, which is fine because he wasn't really a singer, he was kind of just like an improvisational screamer guy. So we found a real you know, uh, we put an ad out in the paper, and that's how we found Jimmy, you know. And actually, I didn't even meet him first. It was Alec and Max that met him. Actually, it might have been Max that met him first, and Jimmy was way into uh Prince, and so him and Max like hit it off. Yeah, he was and because Max was way into Prince, and so um that's how uh and this is before Lynch Mob even too because Jimmy was originally yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was curious, and I'll I'll we'll come back to kind of Jimmy because that's where I kind of met you. But yeah, Jimmy, Jimmy Etherton, amazing musician. We both love him. Um so you like do you how does the J-Lo thing end? Do you are you like I'm out, or does it just kind of fizzle out? Or are you just fizzled out?
SPEAKER_00It was like you know I mean, you know the way musical director things go, like Paul was the musical director, she changed.
SPEAKER_01Going in a different direction or something, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then uh the musical director hires all their own friends, you know what I mean? So it's like um she changed musical directors and then uh um and then that guy hired a bunch of his homies, you know what I mean? But we had the gig for a while because she was she had a New York band and an LA band, but she like I think liked the look of the LA band better. So um, so we ended up doing, you know, like I mean, I did a couple years with her. Um but you know, it's like there was other stuff happening between that, like I was playing with Ravi, you know, doing the the the peyote all-stars thing and then um Christina Million and Sheena Easton and a couple other gigs where I was traveling around. Um so I was like in it, kind of, you know what I mean? But I was still like kind of barely maintaining, to be honest, you know. It's like yeah, I was faking it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she yeah, I remember the you doing the Sheena Easton thing. So you knew Ravi. You you were the connection of Ravi. Um like as far as bringing him into like the Omen Room. Omen Room is a studio that was in Orange County, that's where I kind of came in the picture.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I can't remember how I got I met Ravi, I think, I think through T-Lo, because I think those they were at the studio.
SPEAKER_01I think if they were okay, so we all I guess we all kind of met at the same time, because that's where I met him too. So, anyways, that's gotta be insane though. Like coming off of such a big freaking high profile artist, your mind and your reality is probably like insane, right? You're just like, okay, what's what do I do now? What what's happening now, right? That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know the way it is because you're in it, you know, like it's one of those things too, where it's like um you see the inconsistency of musician life. You you could have a great gig and then it could be gone quickly. Um, also like getting to that level quickly, you know, in my youth, like early 20s, which doesn't necessarily happen unless you're part of a big band, I guess. Um, and so then it's also you know that that pressure of like, okay, what's next? What's gonna top this? How can I stay relevant? How can I keep playing music? How can I keep playing with artists like this? Who do I gotta talk to? And then um, and then this pressure of like, yeah, I did it when I was young. What happens when I get older? You know, like are they still gonna be you know, I mean, the all these questions you ask yourself, you know, like, am I still gonna be relevant? Like, how do I stay relevant? You know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's crazy. Once you get that high, it's like, oh man, like I mean, the thought of like, Am I gonna play in a cover band? Which we both we all play in cover bands. I have no problem playing in cover bands, but going from such a high to being like, oh, am I just gonna play at the bar now? Like, what am I gonna do? Right. And even just being I have a friend that said it perfectly. He's like, he's like, yesterday I was unemployed, today I'm eating chicken nuggets on a private jet. He's like, life's weird, because that's what it was. Like he was like, I was unemployed for like three months. Because being musician, basically you get fired and you get hired and you get fired. And so he's like, he's like, I was unemployed for three months, now I'm eating chicken McNuggets on a private jet. He's like, Life's strange, you know. So I'm sure there was some crazy adjustment of being like, wait, I was just with JLo. Okay, that's kind of done. Like, what just figuring things out? Like, do you start playing in like cover bands or just working, working in original bands?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, it gets yeah, it gets much worse.
SPEAKER_01Uh it gets worse.
SPEAKER_00It gets so crazy. Yeah, it's it's so yeah, it was like uh uh doing original bands because I've always played original music. I was kind of like, I wasn't I you know I I think I probably kind of was a little bit anti-cover band. I'm just like, I don't want to play other people's music, I'm not interested in that. Um I just don't have anything to do. This is like early 20s, like right after Jennifer Lopez, too. So I'm like, I'll keep doing the high profile gigs if I can get them, but I'm gonna develop these other groups that I'm playing with locally to try to make get into a big band, right? So that's why you know, doing the moral groove thing or playing with like a um like a funk band and then uh a kind of a jazz band or like jazz fusion band and then like another metal band, and so and then we was like, yeah, playing with all these like three or four different bands, um rehearsing every day, kind of back to the way it was um like in high school almost. But yeah, and then drinking, and also like I had picked up also some other bad habits like over the years, like I started doing harder drugs, uh hanging out with people that were doing harder drugs, um, like small time selling here and there, too. That was another thing. It was like I kind of got hooked into like selling cocaine for a little bit, like a middleman for it. People knew they could call me and get it, and I'd get it for and make a little money on the side. And so that it was like totally random how that happened too. And so it was like yeah, yeah, it was crazy. I mean the time I met you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's right. And it one thing, uh, you know, I think a lot of people do know this, but it's crazy how even in the nicest areas of the world in Laguna Beach, there's still a seedy underbelly of everything, right? Because it's it's it's like not that Laguna's definitely not seedy, and I'm not saying that whatever happened with was seedy, but it's like you can get into a dark space anywhere, you know what I mean? Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00It's well, I mean, I think that also speaks to you know, just how wealth insulates things. Like you might you don't think of you don't think of Laguna being I mean Laguna is kind of one of those anomalies too where it's an artist community, um uh so it's like it's known for drugs. I mean, like literally Timothy Leary was in the canyon doing, you know, like the acid and stuff like that. Um there was actually like a big like uh um uh drug bust that happened, or like they were trying to find him in the in the in the canyon in Laguna at one point. But like um it's this idea that there's still drugs and all kinds of illegal activity happening, but it's insulated by wealth, you know what I mean? Because people don't expect the bad things to happen there. Um it's in gated communities, whereas on the you know, like in the city it's on the street, so it's like, yeah, people are still fucking smoking crack and doing heroin, but they're doing it in nice houses where they aren't gonna get busted, you know. Yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01So the moral groove thing, that's how I met you. I I remember just hearing, just to like name a tune. That tune, Physical Delight. Do you remember that song you guys did? That bass line was so freaking rad. And that was kind of my first like Matt Borden from the Omen Room, because I came down with my little thing, my dysfunctional duo, and uh, we met you, and he's like, Oh, check out this bass player, I want him to play on it. And he played me like I don't know if he played physical delight or one of those, but physical delight, dude, that bass line was so sick, and I just remember seeing I remember seeing you guys play that because we kind of I can't even watch you guys play because Jimmy's like, oh dude, just come play in my band, you know, and like I was a disaster, but uh but I just remember watching you guys and just being like, wow, this is like next level, dude. It was yeah, it w it was next level. And you've always had just the way you play bass, your tone, it's just very unique, man. And that's why I always I like you to be on all my treatos stuff. I just think that it's perfect, you know. Thank you. You have a tone, you know. Um thank you, bro. So, anyways, we all meet, you know, and and we're doing our thing, and you're still doing pop gigs, and you know, we're it's kind of like I I'm out of control, uh, you know, I'm trying to figure out my life, my band's falling apart, I'm drinking, I don't even know who I am, and like I'm hanging out with you sometimes. We had some crazy nights, like nunchucking a refrigerator or something like that. And like I just remember I was like, I was like, okay, my life is serious. I don't know what I'm doing with my shit. And I was kind of spy rolling, you know. My obviously the band fell apart, and you were playing in a million bands, and I was like, God, I just need to do like what Gabe's doing. He's got so many bands, and I was always asking you, I'm like, you gotta show me because I didn't know any theory, I didn't know anything. I was like trying to learn, and you were like so patient with me, you'd like send me, yeah, dude. Hey bro, like, here's a harmonized scale, like learn that shit. And I just was like, I don't, I don't know, you know. And uh so you were still kind of doing pop gigs, and but I and so basically everything kind of imploded, right? It just kind of like with life and and and so I don't know if you want to talk about that, yeah. Where things went from there.
SPEAKER_00It was um, I mean it was a combination of drugs, alcohol, just chaotic um relationships, you know, just the the chaos, also just uh my own personal stuff that I had never dealt with, you know. Like, I mean, because now I've been sober for a long time, so like I can see like what I what was what was happening that contributed to like the craziness. And it's like um, yeah, playing in a metal band, um selling drugs, getting into like just doing hard drugs, whether it was like smoking fucking meth or like smoking heroin or um you know, and and just kind of being in that scene and then like um playing in a metal band, playing in three different bands. And I remember um we played one of the metal bands, we played like the best show we ever did down in San Clama or uh uh San Diego, and the lead singer died the next that that night, you know, uh Danny, um on the way home. And it was like that was 2005, and so it was like two years for like two years after that, it was like this is kind of even more spiraling. Um drinking so much, just getting in these horrible situations. Uh the doctors told me I had the liver of a 70-year-old man when I was 25. Um, you know, and then I was also, you know, so like, and I was violent when I'd get drunk, like I'd just kind of just be a dick and go off the handle, and it kind of just depended on who was around at the time. And I mean, I'm aware of that 100%. But yeah, so I got a DUI in 2004, right before Danny died. Um, you know, blew a 0.25 in the three in the afternoon. Supposed to meet my girlfriend's mom at a jazz club that I was playing at that night at Lakoff. And um, and so not only did I not meet my my girlfriend's mom, I was in jail.
SPEAKER_01And I missed the gig.
SPEAKER_00So she's like there, like to meet me, and I'm like, Dorb's like, where's Gabe? And I'm there was like, I don't know, I hope he's okay. Fuck. Um my god, it's crazy, but then yeah, it just got worse, man.
SPEAKER_01It just uh Yeah, I mean you had so many things going on. Yeah, and I know it was obviously was deeper than I knew what was happening, but to me, I was just like, damn, he's in so many bands, and and you really you did play it off very well. Like I never saw you angry, you're always just the funniest dude I've ever met, you know. You always had the funniest, and I do want to I want to continue where you're going with that if you want to. I remember I just wanted I just thought of this. You had the funniest voicemails back in the day. Jesus Do you remember these things? You would have these voicemails that that you'd like you would just like your voice message was freaking hilarious, and you would change it like a lot. Like you'd have like these accents and shit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Jesus. I think it was a pager too, probably. I don't know how a pager a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, anyways, all of this implodes. You had, you know, you'd done the biggest gigs, you're playing in a million bands, the alcohol and the drugs freaking blows up, and then basically your life changes, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. A uh 2004 I got the DUI, and then it just, you know, I was consistently just being more and more chaotic. And then 2007, I got um, I got, you know, drunk at night, lost my shit, almost, you know, purposely tried to kill two people, or like, you know, almost kind of in that vibe. So I and then, you know, eventually ended up getting charged um because I was um, you know, like uh the DA, the district attorney picked up the case. So I got charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and a battery charge. Um, and that was only a fraction of like the stuff that I had done, you know what I mean? So I was like, that was actually a good deal that I ended up getting. But it was a reality check, you know, because it was like, okay, you're like almost suicidal in terms of the drugs and drinking that you're doing, almost wanting to die for whatever reason. And then the reality of like, yeah, I could actually kill somebody else and like take the life of somebody else. And like, and that was the biggest reality check because I was just like, okay, now it's not about you anymore. Like you getting sober isn't just about you, it's about like you need to do this for everybody else's safety because you're you're like, you're gonna fucking, it's you're either gonna die, which is kind of maybe what you want, you know, or you're gonna kill somebody else and end up in prison for the rest of your life. Um, and so that was it. But I still had to do time, you know. I had to, I got a private attorney. Um, she knew the judge, she knew the prosecutor, so she was like, I got you a really good deal. You just you know, rather than doing three to seven years in prison, you're gonna do months in county jail. Um, and but you're gonna have what they call a long tail. So, like you're gonna have probation for five years. That's unheard of. Um, they don't even have that. It's illegal in California now to have probation for five years. And then um, and you can never own a firearm, you can never own a weapon, you can never own a gun for the rest of your life. That's the that's the and then you gotta when you get out of jail, you gotta do anger management, you gotta go to substance abuse. stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I ended up taking the deal, you know, and I was just like, do I really need to? And you know, the lawyer was like, look at your crime scene, man. Like you look horrible on paper. Like look at this place. Like nobody's gonna want like want to cut you any more slack than what they're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um so I took the deal and turned myself in, went to jail. And that was like yeah another I mean talk about the the ups and downs. I was like to considering like I was like fuck I was on a private plane with Jennifer Lopez and now I'm running with like because you have to pick a side when you get into jail right like at this time.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy. Yeah. So crazy.
SPEAKER_00In um in in California incarceral facilities at this time in 2007 it was like you you pick a side you know so you got to be with a racial faction of like a gang um for protection and for a bunch of other things. Just kind of how they run the facilities to keep the peace and to um to administer discipline and do all these different things and sell sell drugs, all that stuff. So I was involved with the Southern chapter of like you know the Mexican mafia even though you're not like I wasn't never a gang member in my entire life been a bass player. But like that's the side that I was in that's the group that I was with and so the last month I was there they're like yeah we're gonna we have to riot so unfortunately you're gonna be you know on the way to the chow hall you're gonna have to attack these guys if you don't attack them we're gonna attack you and it'll be all over for you. So I'm calling my family and calling everybody that I know being like I'm supposed to get out on this day but I don't know if I am so yeah the reality like oh yeah I was on tour on a private plane and now I'm fucking gonna get pepper sprayed in jail in a race riot. Fucking Bro that's gotta be so insane knowing knowing that a riot's coming up I would almost rather it just be like I didn't know I didn't but you probably it's probably very good that you knew because you were ready and knew where to stand and stuff I guess right well you have to know like they they let you know because you're part of that group and it's like you get benefits for being part of the group like I got the best mattress as soon as somebody left like you always have commissary which is like the extra stuff you can buy like I had that because I had money in my books but I was like you know I mean I had a whole like little get down while I was there I had had little c eighths of coffee I was selling to get other shit that I needed and like um I like got you know comfortable in that culture but yeah it's like you're um you have to you know you have to do something or else they're gonna get you that's part of the your payment back to the group you know like your loyalty to the gang or whatever.
SPEAKER_01It's so crazy man and yeah the the stakes change a little bit but you and so you learned like a lot about the ins and outs of prison though being there because uh you came out and you kind of changed your trajectory of your life right you're that was huge.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I was uh um I was sober before I went in so it was like um I was already kind of in that mindset of changing I was sober a couple months before I went in because I think I went in in June or something and I wasn't out till like October um 2007. So it was just yeah it was months. But like um yeah it was crazy man and like you know I mean I comparatively speaking it was a fucking blip in time. I call it my internship my summer internship because it's like guys do decades decades in solitary confinement so I'm not it's it's not comparable. But I did learn quickly and I did see because you have to like you there's just certain things you do in the way you conduct yourself where like people check you constantly being like what why you you're supposed to do this and if you don't do this like you're gonna be in trouble next time so I was like okay I'll do this it's like whatever it is you know and so yeah and that was like that was the whole vibe and so yeah and then learning be being in in a a car so facility in California at that time because it was there was riots all up and down the state like people were dying um because of of the the the beef that was happening on the street between these two rival gangs. So um yeah and it was immediately kind of learning that and also just yeah learning the ins and outs of like the criminal justice system and seeing how often the beds are overturned um what the you know the deputies treat people like um what the programs like no rehabilitation at all you know what I mean like I wasn't allowed to do a lot of stuff because I had a violent crime too so they wouldn't let me work in the kitchen or something like that. So um yeah it was it was a trip man. So yeah I got out and I was like um what do I I I gotta do whatever it takes to stay sober. So I dropped out of every band that I was in you know like three or four bands. I was like I stopped literally bro I stopped talking to everybody for like a year. And I I um and I recorded my own album.
SPEAKER_01So I released this whole album and that was I that was that's right dude uh vital nonsense I you hit me up I or I don't know if maybe I just hit you I hadn't talked to you for maybe maybe two years or something because I was off doing my thing I went to like music school and I remember you just like telling me this story and I was like what you know like yeah just crazy that was it was crazy coming back but then you had recorded this like 50 song album which is so sick dude and and that was kind of like yeah you came back with the original music I remember and didn't you also I don't I can't remember when I heard you say this but you're like you like took a vow of like no more pop music.
SPEAKER_00Oh I remember you saying that you're like I'm not doing any more pop gigs like this is that's not right right yeah I couldn't after I mean you know it's like I think I mean I feel differently now since it's been so long but it's like I I know yeah for sure coming out of jail it's a different experience of like like what kind of music you want to do now you know it's like yeah I could you could like picture myself like after seeing all like because you get exposed to crazy amounts of violence of drug abuse um like horrible stories like crazy racism dudes with fucking swastikas all over their chest like stomping people out like um you it's kind of hard to be up on stage and just be like you know like it's I can't do it it's like see I know it's it's a different mindset I just felt like I couldn't I wasn't in the right mindset like I couldn't be I couldn't do it honestly and like make it believable anymore.
SPEAKER_01Guys are like telling you the most horrific story and you're like yeah well I hear you man this one time I got in the dressing room there's no ice and it was just like I don't even know like no I get that dude I mean this being a musician is like there there's a level where you kind of take a step back and you're like what am I really doing right now? Like like do I need to do this like yeah so I get it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so you didn't also was like so formative in my thinking too because he always said there's three reasons why you would take a gig and so I believe I still believe this to say whether it'll further your career the money's good or it's just a good hang.
SPEAKER_01And he's like that's it. Absolutely that's the three it's gotta be it's gotta be it's and it's gotta be like two of those at least right it can't just be one. It's just I I don't think right like I it's gotta you gotta have at least like two of those.
SPEAKER_00I think where you are at and like where like where I've been and stuff like that is like definitely I think for younger artists it might be just one of them might be helpful. One of them might be enough yeah but I mean I don't know like you're right because it's like you if you're not paying the bills like you have to fucking eat you know what I mean like and it you can only like do that for so long where you're just you know on a fucking string budget and like trying to make you know just trying to make keep your cell phone on like why would you do that? Especially if you practice and you're a good musician it's just like at least put some Suno tracks out.
SPEAKER_01Just kidding dude Suno we can talk about it oh man that shit I'm making waves um so you did your album absolutely insane you brought me in to play second guitar on it and or wait who else yeah Mike was playing too dude no like the honestly I had to go back to school to learn some of those metal I was like bro this I was like asking you I was like what kind of pick are you using I mean Dave is a shredding bass player and that's he's well known but he's also a shredding guitar player because you played the you played the guitar on it right yeah dude and it's just gnarly and that was that was quite a project dude that was really cool um to be part of that yeah thank you for learning all this yeah it was amazing um and so and then you kind of somewhere along the line you're you still you ended up playing with Andy Summers sometimes right yeah I mean I must feel like even though like you know Jennifer Lopez and I'm talking private playing all that stuff like that's great like I felt like I started playing with people that I actually you know that like I look up to as a musician more after I got sober.
SPEAKER_00So like you know playing with Freshant one of the best fusion guitar players in history yes yeah um I got to do an album with him and uh Jose Pacias from Incubus um and then with through Ravi ended up playing with Andy Summers. Ravi ended up leaving that gig and I kept playing with Andy for a little for a while which was great. And then you know like when I started getting involved with like jail guitar doors and stuff like I work with Tom Morello now and like um Aloe Black and then on my album too I got Steve Perkins from Jane's addiction and Dave. Yeah yeah yeah badass and somewhere in there you you did that Shadow Nation thing with George too George yeah yeah that and that was cool was that a film that was a film it was both we did we released a double album um and then we did we started the documentary in like 2011 like we did the trailers for it and then the actual filming went from 2011 to like 2016 and so we hit all these different Native American reservations um different times at different you know throughout the years um and then we did one big trip I forget what year it was 2014 maybe I think it was 14 yeah where we just went through the United States and hit like probably about five to six different Native American reservations filming and playing shows um and then yeah and released a double album which was like it was great those songs are fucking sick too I love them and they turned out really good that's amazing dude um and so now present day I mean I remember talking to you and you're like yeah you know I'm I'm uh not really doing the pop gigs anymore I don't know if you said that but you're like I'm just gonna like go back go to law school and like be a lawyer and like I'm going back to college and I was like can you do that?
SPEAKER_01I'm like you could do that and then like yeah you just went back to school and you're just like crushing it. Like what like what are you doing now? Like I don't even know exactly what you're doing now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so um you know I school was also part of my like recovery process because like I told you I was free time on my hands I wasn't drinking or doing drugs anymore and I dropped out of like all the bands. So like rather than just arguing with people on Facebook um you know talking about Suno dude yeah yeah yeah it was so funny. And like you know Jill like my girlfriend would come home and she'd be like what are you doing? Like what'd you do all day? And I'm like fucking these people on Facebook. You know and she's just like uh it was ridiculous it was so funny dude it was hilarious.
SPEAKER_01And shout out to Jill you guys have been together a very long time through thick and thin.
SPEAKER_00So yes you know big up big ups to her 100% 22 years actually coming up on 23 right now yeah um yeah it's insane man it's totally crazy like it's I still love her to death too she's like she's fucking my person you know like I'm gonna die next to her um yeah and so like uh uh the recovery process so literally I'm not kidding Jill like my girlfriend my mom and my former drug dealer rest in peace like actually he's alive but he overdosed and he's like a fucking it's so sad man um they they knew that I was like reading and I was like sober so they're like why don't you just go back to school so like three people like influential people in my life were like even like the guy that used to sell me weed when I was in high school is just like dude go back to school like what why are you if you're sitting around reading and arguing anyways like go back to school and I didn't know what I wanted to do. So 2010 you know three years out of jail uh a year after releasing the solo album I'm like okay the album's out I might as well just take some classes started taking classes and then um dad died in 2015 well like uh when and I was transferring from like a community college to the UC um I got into the criminology program in um in Irvine which is like it's like fucking they recommended me in my community college they said it's the second best in the nation if since you've already been locked up since you're sober since you have this experience and you're uh already kind of taking the same prereqs like you should just go to this criminology program at UC Irvine because it's the best in the nation so I was like okay and um yeah this spring break before I transferred my dad died um pretty much from alcoholism you know and so like that was just uh it was gnarly it was brutal so during my spring break I had to fly to Mexico because he had passed away in Mexico uh cremate him bring his ashes back uh which was a mission and then organized a funeral for him here and the day of his funeral was the day I got my acceptance letter to UC Irvine for the criminology bachelor's program. Um and it was one of those yeah it's just like you know like uh um I always think about Charles Dickens I hate that fucking book Twin uh Tale of Two Cities but the very opening line was like it was the best of times and it was the worst of times and I always didn't know what that meant. And like after that experience I was like oh I get it like it's like life there's always amazingly beautiful things happening but then there's also like really dark horrible things that you're dealing with too sometimes. And it's like it all comes at the same time. So it's like that's what life is it's like appreciating both of those and flowing with it you know um and so did all that 2017 got through to uh finish got my bachelor's degree um and there's a program at UC Irvine where you can get your JD your your your law degree as well as a PhD at the same time. So I was like I might as well just get them all because I'm fucking cracked out on education right now. So um that was the plan. I was like I'm gonna you know get a JD and a PhD and um and so you have to apply to both schools. I didn't get into the PhD program. I was waitlisted at the law school but I'd applied to other law schools this is 2017 I got into law school uh locally so I started going to law school and at the same time um I found a nonprofit one of my buddies tagged me in the Instagram post where it showed like singer songwriters going into prisons in California um working on songwriting with guys inside and I'm like dude I'm like I kind of like already am doing this you know in some ways because some of the guys on my album I met in jail um I had this guy sing on my album and then other guys that were involved with the same kind of group that I was involved with in jail was like I had them rap on some stuff too. And so I was like this is like right up my alley I sent up application and I'm like hey I just got a bachelor's degree in criminology I'm a professional musician been doing it for 20 years and then I'm also formerly incarcerated I've been locked up myself and they're like can you come up and do an interview like a week later I did and they're like we need you to start this prison down in San Diego like like next week if you can and they put W-2s in front of me they're like we need you to go now and and it just happens that the creator of this nonprofit Jail Guitar Doors is Wayne Kramer who is known as the godfather of punk music in the United States he started a band called MC5. MC5 yeah yeah Motor City 5 well from Detroit and um like he's a legend dude like it's crazy um and so I mean the clash you know that song Jail Guitar Doors is about his first verse is about his life um you know let me tell you a song about Wayne and his deals with cocaine like that whole verse is about his life and how he got rolled selling cocaine to a fucking Fed. It's crazy. So I just dug in but like teaching in prison changed my life like everything being in that environment working with the guys inside hearing the stories so I withdrew from law school I realized I didn't want to practice law and then I reapplied to this PhD program and that's what I'm doing now. I'm finishing that I'm in my sixth year I'm gonna try to graduate this year so I'm gonna be like Dr. Gabe in June I guess I don't know we'll see but I'm like heavily involved with everything in the prison like California prison politics and through that I've like um you know again uh met some very very interesting characters I'm involved very heavily with uh Eric and Lyle Menendez and Menendez brothers I'm working on a music project with uh Sug Knight actually putting a doing a big show in the yard crazy yeah and then um and then one of my idols like you know Mr. Bungle like I'm working with I literally a donation form just got cleared to bring a saxophone in for the original saxophone player for Mr. Bungle um so I'm doing that. So it's like so wild fucking bizarre bro like I mean life is insane and I'm still playing music like I ended up playing with an entertaining company you know that I love to death undercover live and it's like it's made me a better musician hands down made me a better songwriter hands down. So it's like I understand the value in it. I've been doing that for like 14 years now I think since 2011. So um I love it.
SPEAKER_01And so I get that still that you know playing on stage um we get some great gigs too so I'm you know I'm playing in Kabul for two like uh for Friday and Saturday like great paying gig and like coming up too so it's like we do same you know how it is same stuff that you guys do like this is amazing you know entertainment company stuff so it's cool man dude so rad and playing on Jimmy's music playing on my music so that's cool yes 100% man well thank you so much for spending an hour catching up yes amazing so one thing one question I these aren't really prepared but what's your like ideal day off if you have nothing which is maybe your ideal day off is not to have a day off I don't know like what's an ideal Gabe day off that's so crazy. I literally bro like the the my weekend is eight to nine p.m on Sunday nights um that's it like I there's so much shit that I am doing and I'm responsible for that like there's I can't at the same time if it all went away would you go insane or like me I'm I you know I'm kind of embarrassed to say like I enjoy just nothing sometimes. I like the chill. No I like it too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I just like I have you know maybe that's part of my fucking uh codependence is like you know I'm learning better to have boundaries but I say yes to a lot of stuff say yes I'm involved with so much stuff so it's like um but ideal ideal day off would be like I mean I still wake up early even like on the days off you know like 6 30 7 a.m but yeah definitely go to the gym of course you know that's the best eat some sushi take a walk um you know hang out with Jill um I I don't know and then you know I mean I do love playing I'm I still love playing like but you know I like just picking up the instrument and just fiddling around and having fun and making sounds you know what I mean like that's great like as long as I don't have a project I'm supposed to be working on you know but I also I mean honestly like playing and working on songs and stuff and working with guys in prison like it is honestly like one of my most favorite things to do. It's dude it's amazing especially now like I was you know we're making jokes about it but like with the way music is going and like AI and stuff like that like right now I feel like the music I'm doing in prison is the most authentic honest because it's like just a raw recorder with guys whose life stories have like some guys were like parents put them in a trash can when they were babies so they were had foster youth they were fucking they grew up in gangs they you know they multi murdered multiple people like they've been like in dude there's like so many crazy ass stories and then everybody's lyrics converge into one song and then we record it on this recorder in a room with a bunch of correctional officers sometimes that are walking around it's like this is the most raw realistic honest music that I make from the soul of human beings that are being like you know held captive in these fucking that I've been through some crazy shit. It's like because when I think about the pain that I write about or pain that somebody else writes about I'm like this fucking is this is like the most honest shit.
SPEAKER_01That's as raw as it gets man right there. Yeah that's real dude well Gabe thank you you're the man and maybe I maybe I need to take your mantra of saying yes more you know where Ben Wagner told me when I was like 25 he said you know I finally had to learn how to say no and he's like he's like I learned how to say no I was like I want to be like Ben but now maybe I want to be like Gabe Dude you are a legend you too man you're a legend let's talk soon please please stay in touch alright brah later man thank you Gabe such a badass human and thank you for listening everybody please go to our Instagram noflakes podcast you can go to YouTube also no flakes podcast and find us on Apple Spotify Amazon any of that leave comments subscribe like all these good things and I will talk to you all soon on the next episode see ya