What We Wish We Knew Sooner

What do you wish you'd known sooner? In this episode, we get personal — reflecting on the lessons that shaped them not just as leaders of Merge, but as ministers, spouses, and parents. These aren't lessons from a leadership course. They're the kind that only come from living it: the hard seasons, the missteps, and the slow realization that growth isn't always about doing more.

In this eposide we unpack what it actually looks like to lead well — when to push forward and when to let go, what deserves your energy and what doesn't, and why who you're becoming matters just as much as what you're building. Whether you lead a team, a ministry, a household, or are simply trying to show up better in your own life, this conversation is a reminder that the most important leadership lessons are often the most personal ones.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Today's episode is a little more personal. We're talking about what we wish we knew sooner, not just leading merge, but in ministry and in our families. Because a lot of what we learned didn't come from books or conferences, it came from mistakes and figuring things out the hard way. When you step into leadership, you feel like you need all the answers that growth means doing more and pushing harder. But over time, we learned some of the most important lessons about what to let go of, what actually matters, and who we're becoming along the way. If you're leading anything, a team, a ministry, a family, or even just trying to lead yourself well, I think this conversation will hit home. Well, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

You ain't gonna put that in there.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I'm not, that's why I edit it. Welcome back to M3 Merge Ministry Mostly. And today we're jumping into the mostly part of the title and branching out from just merge and looking into other areas of life. Uh so we're gonna talk about merge, obviously, but then we're gonna look at ministry lessons we've learned, not necessarily the bad lessons we learned. Maybe there are some lessons from the bad that we've learned, but some good things, things that helped us in ministry along the way. And then we'll finish off with family. So, what year did you start full-time ministry?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

2015. Graduated in December. It was early in December, and it was like the day of graduation. I did not walk, I didn't go back to Rome to do all that. Uh, but I graduated that next Monday. I started with my dad at the way church.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

So 2015 was when you started ministry.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

That's when I started full-time ministry.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

When did you start full-time family in?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Ooh. We got married in 2014.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Ah, so you've been doing that longer than.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah, so so we got we got married in December of 2014, and obviously I was in Rome, still had school left, graduated in 2015 in December. So Joe and I lived in Rome for a semester. Uh Shorter did not pay for their athletes to stay on campus, which I was off campus, but uh they didn't pay for anything during the summertime, so we went back home. And uh when we moved back home, Joe actually got a job at Sherwood Elementary School. And uh so that's where I went to elementary school. I went there until first grade. I was there, then I went, then I went to Latewood. Of course. Latewood, maybe no, through second grade is when I went to Sherwood. Anyways, that's not important at all. Uh, so my last semester of college, Joe was teaching at Sherwood and I was up in Rome. So that was like not necessarily how I would have planned things, but you know, as it worked out, it was like this was the best for our family.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So uh we made that so while she was here beginning her career, you were in college still playing around. Yeah, okay, yeah, just throwing that out there.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, we had a house and everything, and uh she she she had a house all by herself, completely alone. I had a roommate in college back on campus.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Oh, look at that.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

There were several aspects of that that were not uh the best. You know, you go from living on campus in a dorm room to then I got a uh apartment as a duplex with my wife, and then having to come back on campus with my buddy. That was awkward. Wow. Well, there was a couple nights I'd like jump up in his bed and uh I'd be like, Man, I miss my wife. Get off of me! All right, well, let's start with merge.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

What do you wish you knew sooner when it comes to merge? I'll begin. I would say the the biggest thing is it's not personal, yeah, criticism, ideas, people liking things or not liking things. I took a lot of things earlier and still probably do to some extent. Personal, like they were attacking me, which is also goes really with the ministry thing as well. Um, when people have suggestions or corrections or things like that. It's not personal mostly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

There there are some things where it probably is. Certainly. I mean, you ain't gonna you're not gonna lead a ministry and there never be things that are personal, you know. But the majority of it, you're right. It's not it's the things that well, I mean, we've mentioned it on this podcast before. The things that we're doing, the desire is that this would be the best for everyone, and you're just not gonna hit that. So when there's pushback on that, right, it's hard to not feel like it is personal.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Well, and maybe the the aspect of it as well is we want everything to be perfect, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And it's not gonna be like so we want it to be, and so therefore, when they say something, it's like I have failed right versus right, and just open transparency.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

We send out a survey at the end of the year. We did it a lot starting, then we kind of got away from it, and now we're back to that. Still, I cannot read the surveys, I choose not to because when I read it, some of the things I take personal and like what the heck? Why did they say this, or how do they not like this? Uh so I don't, I do not read the surveys, some of the staff read it. Then when we get together, they will say, Hey, this is some of the things that were said. Surveys are good. We have learned from those and we have added from those, but for me, I I I can't read them. I that see they so you have people on social media who post stuff and people make comments, and sometimes people are like, How could they say this stuff? and they read the comments. I'm like, just don't read the comments, pay somebody else to do that, then you make the videos and don't worry about what other people say. So I think that's kind of where not that I'm paying people to read the surveys, but right um I can't I I can't read them.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

So my first year with merge, I was 24, was still not legally allowed to drive a church van. So on our way home, uh I remember somebody made the comment about did we get you know the surveys? And Daniel said yes. And so I'm looking on the drive, like I want to find it, you know. Well, let's go through it on the way home. And uh Abby, I think Abby was in the front seat and she looked looks back at me and was like, Don't do it. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I just plow through that, like whatever, it don't matter, and then the next thing you know is like everybody's mad. Like, what is just happening? What are we doing? Like, why is everybody upset? And it makes sense that that's what you wish you had to learn sooner.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yes, I wish I could read the surveys and think and not take it personal and not get upset or whatever about it, but I can't, I'm still learning.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

So, with the what you wish you learned sooner was not taking it personal. Are you any better at that now?

SPEAKER_01 7:43

I am in the constructive criticism, I guess, part of it. Yeah, I'm not in reading the surveys. I don't know. I just I just don't. I should be better at at that to know the people's heart behind it, that they are wanting it, and the expectation that everybody's not going to give us tens on everything, right? That there are things that we can improve, and surveys are great to do. That's one of the things I did starting out in children's ministry after the end of every event. We would give the leader surveys, and through those surveys, things got better. Yeah, so they're great. And if you're not doing some kind of after-event evaluation, whether it's a survey or input or leadership meeting or something, you should do that because things don't work all the time, and other people do have better ideas. So I'm a little better. I was not perfect.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Talking to my dad about this very thing last week, and uh he was like, you know, everything I've ever done, he was he's been all kinds of stuff, uh, from baseball coach to you know working at the board office in the school system. Now he's a pastor all throughout my life. He's you know built cabinets and things like that. And uh he's like, I've I've always done those surveys. He's like, but if you're doing a survey to change, he was like, You are giving the survey for the wrong reason. He was like, You do the survey, survey to to get the impact of whatever thing you were doing, period. He was like, if you're doing the surveys in order to change, he was like, then you got the wrong goal in mind. It's easy to feel personally attacked and blah, blah, blah. He was like, because everybody that gives feedback on there is not uh quality feedback. Every every you know, all the feedback you get is not, you know, this was wrong and it needs to change. It's we want to know where we, you know, did we were we were we successful in doing what we sought out to do? Sometimes you you are, sometimes they just drew a bad straw, you know. Sometimes their experience was just not the the best, and you don't have to change because of because of one person's, you know, negative feedback or even negative experience. But you know, with that, I was like, that's a good good thought. Helps us to not be take things so so personally when you know there is a lot of thought and prayer and effort to make it wonderful for everybody, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

And everybody has different opinions, and like we talked about style of ministry, there's gonna be differing opinions and thoughts, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Something I find interesting about that too is there's when people are are praising us and it's they had the experience we were wanting them to experience, a lot of times our we're like, oh yes, like it's a we celebrate in that moment, we read that, it's great, and then the thing that we constantly think about is the negative one, right? You know, and I think that tells a lot about us, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I think that's life in general. I think you're right. Because we look, I mean, in your maybe not for everybody, but when you have great moments with God, it's awesome, but then something negative happens, and then it's like you forget about God's faithfulness, right? And it's like, well, he just did this, but now we're doubting or angry or whatever. So uh anything for you, merge what you wish you knew sooner.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

I think this uh applies to all three categories. Uh growing up, uh, I told you my dad built cabinets and stuff, and I was always helping him, and he didn't come up with this. Obviously, this is a construction term or you know, things that's said in that world, but uh he would always say measure twice, cut once. Like, let's be sure of of the thing that we're doing. You know, if you think you remember the measurement and you go cut it and it's short, you can't you can't stretch it.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

You can't add to it. Can't you get a wood stretcher and make it longer?

SPEAKER_00 11:46

We we have a wood stretcher, it just rarely rarely works. Rarely works. But anyways, uh I think that's one of the things I've learned and in honestly from being on on staff and knowing what our goal and our desire is uh for that, you know, sometimes there's ideas that get cut that we don't do, and sometimes we look back and say we should have cut that. Uh but measuring twice, cut once, making sure, you know, whether that's editing videos or you know, whatever that is, take that extra time to be be sure that this is this is the the direction that God has us, not this is something I wanted to do or you know, something along those lines. Measure twice, cut once. I think it it applies to everything.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Well, that's not you can't give the Jesus answer for everything. You can't say one thing and it apply to all. Well, I think I can. I just did it. So we've talked a lot about merge the past couple of weeks. So we're gonna jump on into the ministry outside of merge. I am currently a youth pastor, Luke's currently a children's pastor. We've said it before when we first started, or when we met each other, I was in children's ministry, he was in youth ministry. Along the way, he's done both of those. Have you any other? I mean, I know we're we're both involved in FCA. Any other roles within the church other than children and youth?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Nope. At one point, I was over both at the same time, but still the same role.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, I did that two or three times, and I tried to get the church to let me just be over all of next gen ministry, but nobody has been on that yet. So but anyway, so yeah, children, youth for me, FCA. We do FCA stuff. Obviously, on staff, you give input into small groups and hospitality. We both have, he's probably done it more than I have filled in in the pulpit. Obviously, not led a church as a senior pastor, is what you would say. In ministry, what is and you can't use the cut twice, measure once rule there. Nope, measure twice, cut once.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

What is something in ministry you wish you knew sooner? Well, I see on the paper here what you have, uh, which uh I was uh taught early on that I didn't really pay a whole lot of attention to as much as I thought the programming was where it was at. And it is the relationships that you build along the way and with the the people that you have. Um I one of the things that I was told, but I didn't really unfortunately didn't really put as much stock in it as as I felt like I should have. But um I was told early on what you win them with is what you win them to. And so I thought, you know, having the programming and you know, the games and the activities and those kinds of things were if we don't get them in the door, how am I gonna keep them? And so, you know, what you win them with is what you win them to. If you win them to the games, that's what you're winning them to. That's how you get them in the door. Um, but it it should be it should be Jesus. And I know as a children's pastor and have been a youth pastor, uh, the thing you're winning them to being Jesus is not necessarily going to be the the sermons, you know what I mean? Like I I thought that's what it meant for so long that in my brain I couldn't really wrap around the fact that okay, I'm I'm I want to win them to Jesus. So the most important thing that we do here is you sit and listening to me for 30 minutes. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I was gonna say 20, but you looked at me. The first uh what is it, the first step to recovery is admitting.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So so understanding early on it was youth ministry that the youth ain't paying attention to me for 30 minutes, you know, but I want to win them to to Jesus. So I kind of threw that out of the out the window. It's like it's like you're you don't understand. Like I this is youth and kids that I'm dealing with, so uh I gotta get them in the door somehow. And you know, what you what I realized, you know, over the years is through the those kids that come and go, they grow up, they don't stay in your ministry for forever, you know. Um winning them to Jesus doesn't just look like hey, listen to this sermon, but it's it's those relationships that you're building along the way. I try not to take over what you were saying, but uh set it set up what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Well, what I said, what I wish I knew sooner was it's about the relationships. Over the years, we have seen a lot of the and and not all, a majority or a the base, the core of what I'd say maybe merge staff is were serving with me in children's ministry at a previous church. Yeah so I I didn't I knew it wasn't about me and there were things that I couldn't do and I needed people, but I didn't see the value of those relationships and how impactful they would be going forward. Yeah, God blessed us with great people, people that love Jesus, people that would buy in and do whatever needed to be done. I probably took some of those for granted. Like, hey, you're here and I know you're gonna be here and great, do your thing and didn't take the time to invest in some relationships that I should have.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

But now as I look back, now that you're older, now that I'm older, I wish there were I would have developed those more. Yeah. And even with the the merge staff, we don't get together enough. Yeah, we don't see each other enough to actually w we love each other and it's great and all that, but building those, I probably could do a better job even in that. But leaders you have on Sunday morning, Wednesday night, those people are what matters. Um, but also life change. Like I think of Wednesday night when I'm preparing for youth, and I you should you should put a lot of preparation into what you speak on. Well, sometimes on Wednesday I'll speak, and then on Sunday, I'm like, hey, what do we talk about Wednesday? They have no idea, no clue. Like I could get home and ask some of my own children or reference the the sermon from Wednesday night, and they're like, I don't know. And I'm like, really? Like, pay attention better, but that's important. Uh, but then I think back in oh over my life when I was in youth ministry, or who was your youth pastor?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Uh my dad.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Your dad? Oh, so you you you probably know because you're scared of your dad.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

No doubt. I was I was just thinking as you were saying that, like, there were times where me and my sisters were like, I what was point two? Like, I need like he's gonna ask us on the way home. And uh what looking back is like now being where I am now and can you know have these conversations with my dad, you know, what I learned now he he at that time was not asking us, you know, where were these points, blah blah blah? It was like, am I effectively communicating what I'm trying to communicate? It's that feedback deal. And uh we were just so afraid, like I gotta know the right answer, you know. My dad is a wonderful man. I don't want you to think he's not, but uh he was he was and is scary. So actually, I go uh eat with my or meet with my grandparents every Thursday, and me and my grandmother were having a conversation about my dad. I was like, sometimes when David Wilson asks you a question, it's like your mind just goes blank and you're like, I I I don't know. It's like I know the answer to us, it's just you asked me, and I can't tell you. Yeah, well, so you're saying you don't get that from your kids?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Not at all. But I was for me, looking back when I was in youth ministry, I couldn't tell you three sermons that my youth pastor preached. Yeah, but I can tell you three things relationally that happened, or three trips we went on, or three camps, things that happened at camp, right? But I still couldn't tell you what that anybody preached on.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Well, even looking back on my life in ministry, I don't remember a lot of those messages that I preached, but I can think of those same things with you know, you you name a student that was in my ministry, and I can think of things that we did. I think of some of the games that we played, or you know, the the lock-ins where people are taking uh foursquare way too seriously four o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Or going on a ski trip and somebody that's never skied before telling us that he's gonna do all at least Ollie.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

There's those things that you definitely remember. Uh that yeah, you're right. So my my uh football coach in college was uh his name's Phil Jones, he's passed away now, but uh he was older and he had figured out you know, football is gonna come and go. You know, you get new players every year, you have kids graduate every year, and uh he he was first and foremost a follower of Jesus. And it wasn't a front. We went to a Baptist university, it wasn't let me check this box so that they're good with me. He wanted us to know the Lord. And uh I remember I remember this speech as a freshman, and I remember this speech as a as a senior, and it was every, every year, the last full pads practice before we started game prep, he'd call everybody over to the corner. And as a freshman, I'm looking at the seniors and the you know, the upperclassmen, they're getting comfy, like they're sitting on the Not on a knee, they're sitting down on the ground, getting like relaxing, knowing what's coming and listening to what he's saying. Uh, he's an older guy, he's you know, had some different quirky mannerisms, but he'd go, It's all about relationships, man. And when he started that, he's like, You knew where where this was going, and it wasn't about the game, it was about life, and it was about the relationships that we build and and that they matter and and how we how we treat people, how we deal with people. I mean, he went through the whole deal, but I remember as a senior thinking, like, man, I I wish I'd have paid attention to this more, you know. Like, I'm I'm not the I'm not the best friend uh that is like, hey, we need to get together, let's go get lunch. Like, I don't do well at pursuing that, you know, and uh I tell people like I I do love you and I do care about you, and I do think about you sometimes. I should probably reach out more, like I should probably say this more, but you know, looking back at the things that we've learned, and I I too am with you in that, I I wish I had paid closer attention to those relationships on the front end. You don't always know in the beginning, you know, you don't know where where this relationship is going to take us, but to invest in that, because you you mentioned it before, we we can't do it on our own, we can't do it by ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

So, what we're not saying is that in youth ministry you should never preach. That's no what we're saying. That is where the Holy Spirit convicts and moves, and like that is you should put effort and thought into it, but that's not the only thing. Yeah, like you need they need to know there's a saying they need to know you care before they know how much you know, they need to know you they want to know how much you care before they know what you know or something.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

I don't know what it makes sense, it makes sense, but uh the relationships are a big part of that, and when they know you and they trust you and they see that you're gonna be there in the good times and the bad, then when the word of God is preached, like yes, he can do what he wants and he can move how he wants without us, but the relationships and youth are very unique in that you know an adult might be bold enough to come and ask you some questions that's personal based on the conviction of the message. Kid, especially, but a kid and a youth, they're not coming to talk to you about what's going on unless they know that you care about that. Right. That that don't happen through a sermon, right? You know, so you gotta preach the truth, you get you gotta, you know, share God's word with them. You got you know, scripture tells us the Holy Spirit convicts us, convicts us of sin, righteousness, and judgment. They don't get that conviction from the Holy Spirit by playing a game, you know, they get that from learning and opening up God's word and and teaching, but they ain't coming up to you unless that relationship is being developed.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Right. So now we'll end with family. What do you wish you knew sooner? And like we said, Luke is younger than I am. My kids range from I'll probably mess this up, 25 to 15. Two are out of the house, so to say, one will be leaving in August, then we'll be left with a ninth and eleventh grader. So we're coming at this from different stages of life. So you can what do you wish you knew sooner when it came to family?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Well, my my kids range from nine, eight, and five. Grand will be six on tax day. Uh, but there's there's a lot of a lot of times looking back and thinking about the things I wish I knew sooner. A lot of times the things that you wish you knew were negative things that took place in your life, you know. And um my dad calls that the if it is. I've been talking about my dad a lot today. If itis. If I'd have known this, if I'd have done this, you know, there's there's a tons of of things that I can recognize in my life and say, you know, I wish I hadn't uh bought that car when I bought it or bought this house or whatever. There's you know, all those things that you can't change. Um, but I remember again, some of the advice that I was given was when you go get home, be at home. Like leave the church at the church and be present with your family. And I would imagine you can attest to this. Uh, that's not always super easy. Uh, there's there's stuff that happens that you're dealing with and you're wrestling with uh that you you gotta deal with, you know, you get those phone calls in the middle of the night or randomly that you gotta go deal with with church folks and whatever. But uh so with that being said, I think what I wish I had of or something I I I had realized sooner, or not really realized because I knew it, but put into practice sooner was that just being at home. Being there, you know, being being there when I'm there, because there's it's so easy to be distracted by the other things that you got going on in in your life. I mean, um, I feel like I do have a good relationship with my children. I don't feel like I'm I'm never there, but you know, there's times where you're you're there, but you're not present. And just being, you know, my kids are getting out of the age of you know, laying in the floor and playing. You know, now it's we gotta go do something. You know, it's they want to hit balls. Juju's learn how to uh teach learning to to play tennis. And so, you know, you ain't doing that from the couch, you know. That's not sitting down and chilling, they ain't getting in your lap and let's read a book no more. You know, it's let's let's put this stuff down. And I'm I if I need to stay up later, I'll stay up later.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Let's just be well, and that's the thing is being saying no to the things that you think you have to do in order to go out and do this. And that kind of goes with with mine, is it goes by really fast.

unknown 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Like I look back now, and there are times that I look and go, Man, I wish I would have got off the couch, or I wish I would have done this. But at this stage in life, and you hear it, and I know it makes me sound really old, is like they grow up fast, and before you know it, they'll be out of the house. Like I look back and it's hard to think of in in the moment. I think the saying is the days are long, but the years are short. Yeah. Like I remember when they were all like two years apart, two, four, six, eight, and then Mason was a little bit older. But having all of them in the house seemed chaotic and it it was a lot to go places and to do things and all that.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

I missed this.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

And you are, um but to look back and to remember those, but that seems like forever ago.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

But now I look back and go, Wow, they're done.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, like when I when we were at the same church, I had your oldest in ministry with me, and I think she was a senior, and you know, she graduated, and then the next one's coming up, and uh me being able to ex obviously I'm not there all the time, uh, but from what I've experienced in seeing your kids has made me have that realization of like, man, this does go by really fast. Like, you know, you got a 25-year-old, I got a nine-year-old, but you know, all those things that are so quickly uh approaching, they're gonna be 10 this year, six years, he's gonna be driving. And you know, it's years after that, he's gone out of there. And you know, those those things do it time goes by so fast, and you know, I love merch. I can't wait to get to camp in the summer. And so I think a lot of my life has been wanting them to be uh older, you know, when they're little, you want them to walk, and then they're walking, you're like, oh my goodness, they're into everything. You know, then you know, you want them to talk, and then you want them to be quiet, and then you know, there's all these, you know, we're wishy-washy and all these things, but you know, being being thankful of those moments, you know, being able to see your kids grow up that you know, I love them, I care about them. Like, I went and got me uh a drink, a coffee the other day and seeing one of yours in their work and it was like, how is this possible? Like, she's not supposed to be doing something like this, you know. It's like she might have been gone too. So we don't find ourselves being in the moment without it being intentional to do that, right? Uh my daughter kind of cut me to my core just recently. Uh, she made a statement about me being on my phone, and she she put that word in there that just got me always. You know, it's like, but no, I'm not like it doesn't matter if I'm mindlessly scrolling and watching videos or if I'm doing work. You know, I do that on my phone sometimes. Uh either way, it's like, you know, always talking. You're always you're always on your phone. This it's it's easy to just, oh, I gotta get this done, I gotta get this done. It's it's harder to say, I'm gonna put this down right and I'll get this done later. You know, I I'll get this done when when the kids go to bed. Because my kids still got a bedtime.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Well, and it's even we could do it later, or it's gonna be there tomorrow. Or it's gonna be there tomorrow. Like I look back over times of ministry, and I did try to leave ministry at home and when I was at home at home, but there are things that we let worry us, there are things that we think we have to do that it's gonna be there tomorrow. Yeah, that it's still gonna be there. The time with your kids, it is borrow time, limited time, because soon they are, and you raise them for the day that they go and they're on their own, and that's what parents are doing is equipping them to be successful adults. But then when they become the adults, you're like, Oh no, where are they going? So it goes by really fast. If you have kids and they're younger, make the most of it, say yes more than you say no, stay up late, put stuff down, spend time with them because one day you're gonna be 43 and sitting here talking like an old person that your kids are growing up and they're all going away.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Uh, but that's some things that we could probably talk a whole nother podcast on things that uh we wish we knew sooner, but the reality is we didn't know it, we have learned it, but I also think, like you said, there's there's things that you can't change. Yeah, we wish we would have it would have happened, but because it didn't, it has helped us become who we are today. Yeah, now that we have it all figured out, or that there's still things that we we're not or we're learning along the way, but it is you can look at the past and let the past be that and it just be there, or the past can help you to be a better person and to be a better father or in ministry or to do merge better to become who God's called us to be. So there's purpose in it.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Oh, yeah. One of the the blessings of ministries I've been involved with is not being a your kids aren't welcome here, you know. The I I've been able to do ministry with my with my children present and being being a part. And uh, so whether that was you know FCA camps or you know, merge or whatever that was, but when I was when I surrendered a call to ministry, is around the same time that Joe and I were engaged and about to get married, and you know, my dad is doing our premarital counseling, and he's like, you know, he's asking Joe, I was like, you he's going in ministry, you gotta be on board or this ain't gonna work. And she was like, Oh yeah, I'm I'm in. And so, you know, there have been times where we left the kids at home and go and do the camp or whatever that looks like because Joe's Joe is involved in the ministry and she wants to be a part and be be there. Whereas, you know, there's times where you know it's I think Macon was you know five weeks old and we're at a at a camp and she's not involved. She's just lugging him around and you know, tending tending to the why didn't we do this, you know, uh tending to the baby. But with that being said, you know, we've we've been able to, you know, our family is gracious enough to keep our kids at at time to where you know Joe is able to be a part of the ministry uh of that as well. And you know, sometimes I look back on this like, man, uh they should be here. But if they are, then only one of us is active and participating in this. And now they're getting at the age where they're there at camp, you know, they're they're with us, but not with us.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

It's all a learning process, ministry, family, merge. You learn along the way. Uh, you don't always get it right, but if you look back and you see things that need to be fixed or could be changed, and you change those, then it's for the good. So it's worth it. It's worth it. Thank you for joining us again. Remember, like, share, comment. If you have questions, we were just talking earlier about doing a session of we answer your questions, whether it's family ministry, merge, the Bible, whatever it is you may want to know about. We will check the different avenues. You can always email us mergeministries 12 at gmail.com. We have a webpage, merge-ministries.com, that also has contact information. Uh, help us spread the word, like, share, comment, whatever else you have to do. I don't know what all that is, but just do that and help us spread the word. And we will be back next week. Enjoy your week and okay, bye. I don't know. We gotta come up with a better ending there.