The Kitchen: My Mom’s Sister

This is the second of a subseries of episodes exploring the roots of how I am in the kitchen. It takes place in the 1960s and 1970s in Minnesota, USA (Dakota and Anishinaabe lands). The protagonist is my aunt, my mom’s younger sister. We talk double dishwashers and tongue and butt. Thanks for listening. 

Suggested pairings:

Salad (iceberg lettuce, sliced dill pickles, & mayonnaise)

Beef tongue sandwich

Red Velvet Cake

Whatever beer is on sale

Dry deserts (acoustic) by Zach Bryan

Mesquite incense 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello and welcome to episodes five of Home, a podcast hosted by Brenda Greenfield. I have the distinct pleasure of having my mom's sister on the show this evening. And she, right before we started our podcast recording, she was just finishing her dishes. So I think that is an excellent place for us to jump in and start. If you could tell me about how you manage your dishes in your kitchen this these days, do you ever let them sit? Um, what's your strategy for getting your dishes done?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

So interestingly that you asked that because I have always, always been very anal about having the dishes done. I don't like anything sitting on my counters, and I don't like dishes in the in the sink. So I don't know. Um, I moved to a new home recently, and it in my old home I had two dishwashers in my kitchen. And when I moved, I thought, I'm gonna need two dishwashers because I would have one dishwasher that I was running and then I would transfer it over. And um it's funny because when I moved here, then I built an island so I could put an extra dishwasher in. And I have two dishwashers in this house. Now I'm all by myself now, so I don't really need two dishwashers, but I have them just in case for those big events.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So that might be not accessible for all of us, but that's how you get it done. Right. Okay. Um, so this episode is really kind of about talking to you about your childhood home. Um, and which was in Minnesota. And um what's the first memory you have of your childhood kitchen?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

One of the most favorable memories I have is sitting at the kitchen table and just talking to my mom. She would be working, she'd be doing something, and she'd be, we'd be talking. And um, those are those are just wonderful memories for me of you know, hearing her story. She would share things that I don't know if she shared with the other kids because you know they were all three really close together. And I was there kind of, I was like an only child. So it was sort of nice to have that time with her.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

What kind of stories would your grandma or would your mom tell you?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

My mom would tell me about, oh gosh, her um her earlier years in Chicago. She would tell me about her shop that she owned. She would tell me stories about a guy that she dated. Um, she would just tell me some interesting things, things like I said, that I don't think she told everybody.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

You were lucky that way. Yeah. What was your mom's personality like?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Um, I would say she was more of an introvert. She kind of liked her quiet time. Um, although she did, she was somewhat social. And um, she was always she was um this is gonna sound terrible. I would say she was a little more passive aggressive in that um she really didn't ever correct us until it was after the fact. And then, you know, then there were consequences, you know. So it was always kind of an interesting, um kind of an interesting thing to to deal with. But uh she was, you know, I mean, I it's hard to say what her personality was really like.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

How did you feel when you were around her?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Um, when I was around her, I well, I never knew as I was growing up, it was really um kind of tricky because I never knew exactly where she'd be. Um, if she would be okay, if she would be upset. I wasn't ever sure. It was kind of that walking on eggshells kind of thing. And so um you had to be kind of careful, a little bit careful. So yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

That must have been kind of hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

What is a food or drink that reminds you of your mom?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Well, um pop chicken papergosh is definitely my mom and my grandmother. You know, I just that that was that was a really special thing that she would she would make. Red velvet cake was her specialty, and she made that for a lot of our birthdays. Um, a drink. Well, I don't know about my mom as much.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Well, we can go what and what is chicken papriash for all of us?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Chicken papriash. Well, that was my Hungarian grandmother, so that was actually my dad's mother that would make that, but it was homemade um homemade dumplings, and then it was chicken, and it had this wonderful paprika and sour cream gravy that it was cooked in. And it was just, it was so good. It was so good.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Did you eat that every week or just like for it was more special occasions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

More special occasions. Yeah, I don't think we really had a weekly cadence. Um, it was kind of whatever was on sale, is what we ate. Um, and I mean we ate some really funky stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Tell me, tell me about some of the food you remember eating that came through rotation.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

So we would have liver. We would have that on a fairly regular basis. And but she did a nice job with it. She would make liver with um ketchup and and bacon on top of it. And she would she soaked it in milk and flour for um like overnight or something to marinate it and make it a little bit more tender. And then um, oh my gosh, you know, I just think of it, and then we would have chicken livers and she would make sort of a kind of a stroganoff out of that and serve it over rice. I remember I never really liked the chicken livers a whole lot. The liver I was okay with that, I didn't mind that so much. Um and then, well, and then with the liver, she would make a salad out of um iceberg lettuce and dill pickles and mayonnaise. Oh. Okay, that's interesting. Haven't, you know, I I've never heard of that ever since. But it's just really interesting. Some of the funny, funny things that we had. Um, she would make make beef tongue. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Um, and were these is this because things were on sale or were these like traditional dishes from Polish dishes?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Well, I think they were tr somewhat traditional, but I think they were also less expensive foods. So yeah, the beef tongue. I remember I remember having that as a sandwich sent with me to school one time, and I was like, uh no, thank you. You just like slid it into the trash. I don't think I'll be eating this today. No. Oh yeah. You know, it's just funny. You think back to some of those things. Um gosh, I'm trying to think if there's other funky things. Those were the ones that I really oh, smoked butt. She used to make smoked butt. That was um, that was a type of pork. And she would put it and she would stew it with um stewed tomatoes and and cabbage. And I like the cabbage and the tomatoes because the flavor of the smoked butt came through, but I never really liked the meat because it was very fatty, very, very fatty.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Interesting. And then what about um your dad? What maybe what drink was um reminds you of him? What was a drink he would drink, or what food food reminds you?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Beer all the time, beer, beer.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

What kind of beer did he drink?

SPEAKER_00 8:25

So the interesting, you know, and I'm not sure. I think probably what was on sale. Yeah. Um, you know, the interesting thing, he worked a lot of nights, or he worked second shifts. And so um when he would come home, oftentimes if he came home like in the afternoon, that was when I was a little bit older, he'd come home in the afternoon and he would have his beer or a shot of something, and I didn't even know what he was drinking, um, and then have potato chips. Okay. And then go to bed. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Oh, so you didn't because of his um schedule, you didn't necessarily all eat together, like for dinner? Not always, no.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

No. I mean, like, yeah, no. I probably, you know, when we could, we did. And I was so much younger than everybody else. I just remember, you know, I do remember sitting around the table, but I don't remember it real well. Um, but as I got older, a lot of times he wasn't there. Yeah.

unknown 9:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Um did you like Phil's absence? Did you miss him? Or was it just like this is how it is?

SPEAKER_00 9:36

I think it was just the way it was. Yeah. That's the way it was. And and even on holidays, you know, because he worked a lot of holidays because he worked for the airline. So oftentimes he wasn't there for you know the holiday meal, which was hard. I think it was hard on my mother.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so in terms of like kitchen management, doing the dishes, planning meals, um, doing all that sort of thing, um, who was involved?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

That would have been my mother.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

It was she did everything.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, my mother did it all. And my and she cut out lots of coupons. And um she we would go, and I remember, I distinctly remember this because I was young enough. We would go from one store to the next for all the sales. So we would go on Fridays, we would go, I know, three different stores. And I used to think, you're burning more gas. Why don't you just buy it here? You know, I mean, I just I remember thinking that as a kid, you know, and if I was a really good girl, I would get an ice cream cone at McDonald's because the last stop, and I forget what the name of the store was, but the last stop um had a McDonald's right by it. So if I was a good girl the whole time, then I would get an ice cream cone.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

What did what did being a good girl mean for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Like not not asking for things, not, you know, um, I don't know, probably just being a good girl, not making noise, you know, nothing irritating her.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

You know, I was just thinking the other day, like why I'm so obsessed with sales, and now I'm like, I get it. Because I was like, why do I go so crazy for sales? I love sales.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Well, and you know, I think there was a point, and I hear this that couples do this, but I think there was a point where my dad would pay her, like she would show him how much she saved, and he would pay her, and she would put that money like into an envelope and keep it. That was her money. So, you know, because he would he dictated the budget, and so you know, she had to stay within that budget.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

And I think she went below it, then she got the money for a stop.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

She saved, well, she saved, yeah. I mean, that's why she would save so much. Yeah. Uh-huh. Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Super interesting. Yeah. Again, I didn't know any of these things. Um, let's see. Okay. Okay, I guess I'll just ask you two more, maybe two or three. Um, how did your mom feel about that being her role? Like, did that take up a lot of time for her to be in the kitchen?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Oh, it took up a ton of time, especially because we had our own garden. We um, you know, she, especially in August, you know, that was the harvest time. And so she was canning all the time. That she resented. I know that for a fact, but that also provided food during the winter. So um, yes, it took up a ton of ton of time. And, you know, she didn't work for many years. She didn't work. And so that was just it was expected. She would make the meals, she would plan, she would do all the shopping, she would do all those things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Did your dad do any, did he cook anything?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Um, I remember, I think my mother went out one time, and I I don't, I mean, I just remember it very vaguely, but um, my dad tried to make potatoes or something, and they were still really hard. And I think my brothers gave him a really hard time, and he just got really angry. Um, but my mom didn't go out much, you know, or if she did, she would leave a meal. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Were um you and your siblings involved in the kitchen? Like, did you have to do dishes?

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Did you have to do anything in the kitchen? Um, we did. We didn't end up having to do dishes, and I don't remember. I remember myself and my oldest brother um doing dishes often. Maybe just because we were we were kind of the last ones out of the house. So um, you know, I think we did that more. And we would actually have fun doing that. You know, we would sing our songs and um and play our music and stuff. But yeah, no, I don't as a really young child, I don't remember being all that involved in the dishes.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I mean, when you're little, it's hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yeah, but when but what I I do remember of of the kitchen growing up was that there was always a ton of stuff on the kitchen counter. Always a ton of stuff. Like dispersions or what? Papers and I mean there was just stuff, stuff like magazines, stuff in the kitchen, and that drove me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Did it bother your mom? Was she like, this is fine, or why do you think that's a good one? I don't think it bothered her, it was her stuff. Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Um, and when did were dishes did were they left till after the meal to do?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Mm-hmm.

unknown 14:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, always after the meal. After dinner, yeah, you you did the dishes. Okay. And and when I was I was probably in high school when we got a dishwasher. Yeah. Yeah. And it was one of those portable dishwashers.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Oh, I've seen those, yeah. So I have I have one more question for you. Um so um the home you grew up in had a distinct feel, and the kitchen had a certain feel to it, and things were done a certain way. So, what choices have you made to make your current kitchen or the kitchen when your kids were around and growing up different than your childhood home in terms of feeling or cleanliness or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah, so I always keep my counters pretty clean. I don't like Stefano. I don't like anything on my counters, like no paperwork. I like to have maybe um little vignettes of cute things, but I don't like to have any kind of paperwork or stuff around. I don't like having dishes in the sink. I don't, you know, it's just it's really interesting. And one thing that I always did when my girls were growing up was we would sit down on Sunday night. No, we would sit down on Saturday night when they were growing up, and we would talk about the menu for the week. And like, what do you want for the week? What's your choice? What's what do you and then I would do the grocery shopping based on that? And um, and I always had a chalkboard and it had each day, and it would, I would write out what we were having so that they never had to ask. They just saw we're having tuna salad or we're having whatever. But I always wanted them to feel like, yeah, I want to eat at home. Yeah, yum, you know. Because you didn't feel that way so much growing up, not so much. No, no, no, because when I got to high school, when I got old enough to work and bring in my own money, I would go to the grocery store and I would shop for myself and I would make my own meal because um, yeah, I didn't want what a lot of times what what was being served. It's not what a snotty brat. But you know. I mean tongue and butt.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Liver. Um, okay, so it was really important for you to make a space for your girls to feel like they liked what they were eating and they knew what was coming.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

And you were doing it together.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Absolutely. It was kind of a yeah, it was a together thing. It was. And and oftentimes, I mean, they wouldn't cook with me all the time because uh oftentimes I was in a hurry. And so we wanted to, you know, get the meal on the on the table. But um, you know, I tried to incorporate them into the kitchen and um, you know, and and yeah, make it all apart, kind of a family type of thing. Yeah, you know, and we did sit down and we always had meals together. I mean, you know, even even if Natalie was at horseback riding or something, we always we'd have dinner together. So, you know, we just that was always a huge priority for me. And probably because we didn't have that as I was growing up.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, yeah, you wanted to make that for your family. I'm so proud of you. Yeah, I think we'll um that's that's I don't know really how to end a podcast, but um, we're done now. Would you like to say anything else? Thank you so much for being my guest and jumping in on a moment's notice to do this. It worked so well. And it I loved hearing the stories and learning about it too. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yes. Well, thanks for asking me. This is fun. I appreciate it. Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Oh gosh. Did you stop recording? No. Oh