Realization Lab

S1 Ep2: At His Lowest Point… 2,000 Spirits Showed Up / Rob Wergin

• Jay • Season 1 • Episode 2

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On a February morning in 2003, Rob Wergin walked to a Long Beach beach, drew a circle in the sand, and prepared to end his life. What happened next — a confrontation with God, a crowd of 2,000 spirit beings, and a one-way bus ticket to Sedona — launched one of the most improbable careers in the world of energy healing.

In this episode of Realization Lab, Rob — a former corporate turnaround specialist who once drove Porsches and bought $400 bottles of wine — recounts how a devastating con by a seductress ruined him financially and brought him to rock bottom, and how rock bottom cracked him open. 

Twenty-three years and 400,000 healings later, Rob describes what it actually feels like to "flip a switch" and become a conduit for something far larger than himself — and what an ancient Egyptian spirit named Master Zoser (among many others) has been teaching him all along.

Join us for this wild, deeply moving, and genuinely extraordinary episode.

https://robwergin.com/

Theme Music: "And It Goes Like This" – Shadow Kitten

SPEAKER_00

On February 22nd, 2003 is when I tried to kill myself.

SPEAKER_04

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I took all these pills and I drew a circle in the sand and and then I started to get really pissed. Were you angry with God? Yeah. And I'm like, F you God, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm not a bad guy. I never hurt anybody. And why the F did you do this to me? And I'm like, you know, just for going off. I turned around, and there were probably, I don't know, 1,500, 2,000 spirit beings standing behind me. Oh my God. That's quite a crowd you attracted. It was a crowd. And you know, I I just remember falling to the sand and starting to cry.

SPEAKER_03

Our world is magnificent. Filled with life in every imaginable form. But what if at the root of all these diverse forms there was one energy, one conscious energy that created everything we know by becoming everything we know, including you. Come with us as we peek behind the curtain of what we call reality and explore the limitless wonders of consciousness. In the realization lab. David Ron. There he is. And David, we have a guest today who I think is gonna is right up your alley.

SPEAKER_04

I'm excited. Tell me.

SPEAKER_03

You know why he's up your alley? Why? Because you're a hypochondriac. I am. And you always think things are wrong with you physically. Because they are. Yeah, well, that's you're a hypochondriac with good reason.

SPEAKER_04

With actual reason to be a hypochondriac.

SPEAKER_03

Well, well, the reason it's gonna be so appropriate for you is because we have with us today one of the preeminent healer in the world of energy work and spiritual healing. Yes, it is. You're gonna enjoy this. Uh Rob Worgen, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. This is gonna be fun, I can tell already. All right. Yeah, we wish you for fun. So is he a hypochondriac and a skeptic?

SPEAKER_04

That would be that would be a fair yes. Skeptic and neurotic. Hypochondriac, skeptic, neurotic.

SPEAKER_03

Actually, that's just a partial list, but that's probably all that's appropriate for for for today's conversation. Hey, um, Rob, you've done so much. You've you've literally healed hundreds of thousands of people. Your your work has touched so many people. Tell but wait, one by one? Oh no, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00

That would take a while.

SPEAKER_03

That would take a long, long time.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's been twenty twenty-three years.

SPEAKER_03

All right, twenty-three years. Tell us, how do you describe yourself? Well, like what do you say you do? Who are you?

SPEAKER_00

You know, there's actually two of me.

unknown

Oh.

SPEAKER_00

Seriously, there's that's the way I describe it because when I'm working, I'm it's like I'm watching somebody that looks like me do the work. You know, I'm just I'm just a normal guy, really. Um except that when I flip the switch, you know, this whole thing everything changes with me, and and I I embody God or whatever you want to call that, and pass that energy on to you. But even then, I'm still like watching this guy that looks like me. After all these years, it's still a little, it's kind of weird, but it's fun, you know.

SPEAKER_03

And you do healing work, this work you're describing, where you sort of step aside and let this other version of Rob come through. You do this healing work in the context of large retreats, which you give all around the world. You do this work online through what what would you call them?

SPEAKER_00

Just as online virtual virtual healings.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh and you know, I don't have to see them. I mean, I can just do it. Uh I we could turn the cameras off and I could do it. Uh, but I like the cameras on because I like to see who I'm working on. But it's not that I need to see you because I'm not actually seeing you. I'm seeing what what your energy fields looks like, not you.

SPEAKER_03

And we're gonna talk about the healing and how you do it and what the experience is like, but how you became this healer. How did you become a healer? I went to a weekend, I went to a weekend seminar, how to be a healer, and I one one weekend, and it was all actually. Do you mind? Let's talk a little bit about your childhood because you have one of the most interesting stories I've I've ever heard, frankly.

SPEAKER_00

You know, so I was born with all these gifts. When I could see stuff, I could hear stuff, I was psychic, I could see spirits, I talked to spirits, and I just thought that you know, every little kid gets to do that. And it wasn't anything special for me. I just like start talking to my mom's grandmother, and she's like, Who are you talking to? I'm like, your grandmother, and she's like, Stop making that up. Why are you making and I'm like, but you know, so I I just thought that you know, kids could do that.

SPEAKER_03

That's what that's what everyone could do. You grew up where? Where where did where were you born?

SPEAKER_00

I I was born in Omaha, and I actually grew up in South Dakota in Rapid City on the western side of South Dakota, which is filled with Native American kind of energy, which I'm very connected to. So you know, so I would, you know, five, six years old, I'd be out walking around and I'd see a rabbit that had a broken foot or a bird that had a broken wing or a cow or something that was hurt. And because my parents were German Lutherans, and you know, they taught us about prayer and ask God and all that, I just did what I was taught, which was, hey God, can you help this cow, you know, or snake or whatever it was? And I would look up and say, Please help, and then I would um the animal would just like completely surrender to me, which wouldn't matter what it was. And I would just put my hand on it, and I'd feel all this like crazy energy going through my body, and the animal would like flip around a little bit and then it'd be fine. You know, and I'd say, Thank you, God. Wow, and you know, just I just thought that that's what we did. And you know, then I would run home and say, Mom, I just healed a snake, and she'd like, stop making stories of it.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like, but your parents were very adamant about their religion, correct?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I I kind of described my parents as always having a Bible in one hand. You know, I mean, it wasn't that bad, but they they were very um sincere about their religion, and it just was a little too much because that's all we had was you know, we couldn't go play baseball until we cleaned the toilets in the church or you know, stuff like that. And it was like, come on, you know, I want to be a kid. So I remember that we had we had my my dad loved Dachshunds dogs.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

And we had a female that had had puppies, and we'd kept one of the puppies, and the one of the puppies got out one day, and the female was the mom was chasing it, and it got hit by a car. And you know, I ran to it and I put my hands on it, and it was badly damaged, hurt, and you know, sat up and ran off. And my mom was like, That's enough. Your parents thought that this wasn't like they thought I was devil. I was I was a devil. Yeah. Oh god. And yeah, oh God, is right. And but you know, it was, and I'm like, but if if I'm helping this dog not die, how is that the devil? And they're like, Well, he's tricking you. I'm like, but why didn't the dog just burst into flames? And I couldn't understand why I was wrong because I wasn't hurting anybody, but I was helping.

SPEAKER_03

It must have been confusing because you're a young man and they're telling you you're doing the devil's work, and these are the people who you you know you believe in, your parents. So you must did you were you conflicted about it, or did you sort of know they were you were?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, sure. And then and then after that Doxton incident, um, they you know scheduled an exorcism in the church, and they um had all these guys like shaking shit at me and telling me I was gonna burn in hell, and if I didn't stop, and I'm I'm crying, and I'm like, uh, but why? I'm not hurting anybody. You know, what are you doing this for? And in in hindsight, they actually were doing me a favor. How so? Because, you know, after 40 years of therapy, I finally figured it out, but they were doing me a favor because the other the alternative was they could have taken me to a circus or Ed Sullivan or one of those things, watch this magical little kid. He can do his tricks. And you know, if they would have done that, I'm sure I would have never lived to 20. Yeah, it would have messed you up. And so what they did was they shut me down. So I got to, and I say to people, I was trained to do what I do by being a human and and having every possible experience a human could have times a hundred X.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So everything I had in my life was like unbelievably insane.

SPEAKER_03

Everything, everything kind of all the experiences you went through were magnified. You just had just bigger versions of experiences that many of us had.

SPEAKER_00

Unbelievable. And what it taught me was what emotions, every emotion feels like, and it also taught me compassion. So, you know, Jay, if you came in and said, you know, I'm this and I'm that, and I'm a drug addict, and I'm that, I go, okay, got it, been there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

No judgment, no criticism. Doesn't matter to me what you're bringing in the room, because I've most likely you've seen it all.

SPEAKER_03

Well, let's let's just talk a little bit about where your life unfolded. So you after the exorcism, that kind of shut down, you you shut down your whole psychic abilities and your your healing practices. You just turned that off, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, not it took a while.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

But I just finally like, this is not worth it, and you know, went on to be normal.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, not not just normal. I mean, you kind of grew up and then went to work in business. Ultimately, you settled into the world of of um takeovers and mergers and acquisitions. And and and you were more of a person who came in and sort of turned a company around.

SPEAKER_00

I was the company healer. The company healer. Oh, yes, that's right. I mean, it's really funny because I would go in and fix these companies that were really sick. And, you know, I, you know, even though I had a lot of education stuff, I could go into a forklift company and not know anything about forklifts and fix it. And people would go, how do you know this stuff? And I'm like, I don't know. I just know stuff. You know, and I could like say on September 21st the stock's going to be$103.58. And they it would be that. And they're like, How did you know that? I'm like, I don't know. It was just a good guess. You know, so but I didn't understand that that I was connected and I knew these, I was, I knew these things because of my psychic abilities, but I didn't know that I had psychic abilities. And you were just a good guesser. No, I'm just like, I guess I'm really smart. I mean, if you would have asked me at any point then, I would have said to you, I'm an atheist, I'm an agnostic, all this spiritual stuff is bullshit, I don't believe any of it. Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That would have been what I would have said to you. And I meant it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And and would you say though that you're it was like your natural abilities as a healer coming through in the form of business?

SPEAKER_00

Again, I didn't understand. So here's an example. I was, you know, I'd get hired to fix a company that was really screwed up, and I was always the president CEO, and I always had the big corner office, right? And and I I noticed that people would start hanging out outside my office. And again, I didn't I didn't know what it was, I just noticed that people were hanging outside my office. And my secretary and my assistants would go, Why are you hanging outside this guy's office? And I'm like, because I had a really bad headache, and my friend said, Go stand by Rob's office and you'll feel better. Seriously. And so I would set up this little like couch and a couple chairs outside the corner office, right? Where people could come get better.

SPEAKER_03

But again, I didn't You didn't put it together at all. No, that's crazy. So you're also being kind of modest because as I understand it, you you were very successful and made quite a bit of money. Is that is that correct?

SPEAKER_00

You guys are in California, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I lived in Corona Del Mar, right by the beach. Oh. You know, I had uh I had the latest Porsche, the latest BMW, four thousand dollar suits, the most expensive watches. You know, I I was living a dream by being completely materialistic.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. And we're by the way, were you happy during this time? No. What was going on?

SPEAKER_00

What what I mean I can't say that I wasn't happy. I I was uh seven days a week, 12 hours more or more a day. I mean, my life was I was all about money and power.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And so I needed to make more money because then I would have more power. And I mean, I'd literally be sitting at, you know, a restaurant in Corona del Mar, and I'd have the latest road and track or stereo or whatever thing, and I'd look at it and go, okay, and I'd pick up my phone and go, the, you know, the Newport Beach Porsche Audi. I'm like, can I have one of those? And I just it just was stupid.

SPEAKER_03

It was that thing where you're constantly trying to keep your like dopamine level up by buying the new thing and and having more authority and power and just constantly trying to stimulate yourself.

SPEAKER_00

My life was very narrow. It was all about what could I get next? I traveled the world, I'd buy four hundred dollar bottles of wine for dinner.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, and how old how old were you at this point-ish? Uh God, 40.

SPEAKER_03

So, Rob, what is the next big turning point in your life? Um, there were lots of them.

SPEAKER_00

But um, the big one was that I met this woman on a blind date, and she was stunning. And I think I was maybe 50, almost 50.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and you know, she was younger and and all that. And, you know, she had a Harley. I had a Harley. I used to buzz around Harley's on the weekends, like, you know, you do in Southern California. And you know, I met started to meet her friends, and then and then it was a complete setup. It she knew exactly what she was doing. She knew who I was, how much money I had, everything about me before she even met me. She had a private investigator follow me around. Oh my god. And it was a complete setup. And so she decided that um she was gonna seduce me into marrying her.

SPEAKER_03

And then clean you out.

SPEAKER_00

And then clean me out.

SPEAKER_03

Which is exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_00

That's exactly what she did.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

She did a fabulous job.

SPEAKER_03

She left me with 11 cents. 11 cents. Is she still alive? Do you know where she is today? Uh uh you just went.

SPEAKER_00

You know, because the same thing is that she gave me the gift, she gave me this amazing gift of shaking the shit out of me so I didn't have this materialistic right, and I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you guys today if she hadn't come through and just bulldozed me, right?

SPEAKER_03

So you'd be buzzing around on your Harley through uh Laguna.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I probably would have been just bored as can be.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Uh okay, so she cleans you out, and now what do you do?

SPEAKER_00

You know, can you imagine? I think I was like 51 or something, and you know, and I had two kids. Wait a second. How did I have two kids from for a first marriage? Okay. Okay, so I had two grown children and a couple grandkids, uh-huh, and I had done nothing to secure their financial future by setting up. I didn't do anything, I didn't even think about it. Right. And so all of a sudden all this happens, and I'm like, I mean, I'm just beating myself day and night because I first of all I got suckered into this deal, and there was no prenup, there was no nothing. My kids didn't get anything, I didn't have anything. I worked my whole life to have this, whatever it was, and it got burned to the ground in one minute. It's gone. And it was that my ego was shattered. I mean, I was just destroyed. And I never had um I was never addicted. I wasn't an alcoholic, I wasn't a drugie, I never did that. I'd loved a nice bottle of wine. My favorite drink was Stolichnaya, you know, but I didn't like slam them. Right. And then, you know, so now I have no money, like zero money, and and I'm you know, I'm doing all the things I swore I'd never do, like clip coupons out of the Sunday paper and go get some you know, chow mein out of a can.

SPEAKER_03

Wow, it's really it's it's really hit that level.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean I had I had to borrow money from my kids to eat.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

I'm starting to drink more.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I was actually stealing prescription pads out of my doctor's office and writing my own prescriptions because I needed to I was drinking vodka and I was taking Tylenol 3, which is Tylenol with codeine, you know, just to numb myself.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And when I was working out, I looked like Mr. Health, you know, I had this great body and I looked good, but I was just trying to burn out this anger and rage and betrayal and all these things I was feeling, you know, and exercise. But then when I was done at night, I I needed to numb down, so I would do that. And I you know, I would work, I it was really hard for me to work because I was so screwed up. And so I would, you know, go do a consulting job for a week or three weeks or something and make just enough money to keep going. But I ended up living in uh Long Beach in a little tiny house. Um, you know, my car was getting repossessed. Um, I mean it was it was intense.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And um, you know, from one extreme to the next in like a nanosecond.

SPEAKER_03

Was there a moment where you hit bottom?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean I on February 22nd, 2003 is when I tried to kill myself.

SPEAKER_03

Oh god. Were you now deeply in addiction or what was going on?

SPEAKER_00

No, I was just depressed.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I was just like, you really F this up, man. How could you? You're not stupid. You know, I just you know, I was like just beating myself all the time. Yeah and thinking about my kids and all that stuff. And and so I just you know, I just got to the point it happened on Labor Day weekend, 1999, is when everything got taken.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And and so this is now February of 2003. Held on for four years. Three and a half years later, and I'm just like, you know, I just can't get up in the morning without just thinking this is I'm the stupidest man alive.

SPEAKER_03

And so w how did you decide you're gonna kill yourself?

SPEAKER_00

Well, so I you know, I'm not a I'm not a brave guy, so I wasn't gonna use a gun or a rope. So I started, you know, thanks to Google, I started Googling how to kill yourself. And and like what drugs, you know, so I had like four different doctors and I'd, you know, get some second-all from one guy for sleep, and I'd get some of this from another guy. And and I'm like, okay, if I put these four magical ingredients together, it's adios amigo. And I actually woke up that morning and I was so happy.

SPEAKER_03

Wait, you took the drugs?

SPEAKER_00

I hadn't taken them yet, but I I decided I was gonna do it that I think it was a Tuesday. Uh-huh. I just woke up like, you know what? I'm gonna be free in a few minutes. Uh sweet.

SPEAKER_02

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, and it was so selfish because I I wasn't even thinking about my kid, you know, nothing. I was just thinking about me.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Because my kids lived like right down the street. And, you know, so I walked out on the beach and I thought, well, I'm gonna go out on the beach because at least somebody will find me if I croak. And you know, I took all these pills and I drew a circle in the sand, and I don't know why I did that.

SPEAKER_03

I don't I didn't know if that was part of the uh the ritual I did.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't know why I did that.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting touch.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and then I started to get you know a little goofy, and and then I started to get really pissed.

SPEAKER_03

Wait, you've got are you do you have the drugs in your system at this time?

SPEAKER_04

And then he starts getting angry.

SPEAKER_00

But I got really angry. I mean, like super angry. Like, if you've ever been in New York and you got some crazy man in the corner like shaking his hand at God, yeah, that was me. Were you angry with God? Yeah. And I'm like, F you God, you F F F, you know, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm not a bad guy. I never hurt anybody, and why the F did you do this to me? And I'm like, you know, just going off, you know, and my little my little evil twins going, dude, you've got to get this over with because you think you're talking to God now. You're yeah, you know, yeah. Then I had I had this thought, and I you know, I don't know. I I'm not sure if this is what I said, this is what I remember, so I can't swear any of this. But it was something like, so God, if you have any effing thing to say to me, you better effing say it now. You know, like threatening. Good tactic. Yeah, it was great, right? And uh so I heard heard or felt or whatever this voice. And I'm like, what? And then this guy's going, now you're really crazy, dude. You think you're actually, he's talking back to you, you know, you're like, cuckoo, you know, just get this over with. And I'm like, what? And and every time I say what, I would hear it again. And I would hear like this this thought or voice. To me, it was a booming voice. Said, you know, you're a healer. Do what you did as a child.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And I didn't make any sense to me because I had completely forgotten about what I did as well.

SPEAKER_03

All that was like so long ago, so long gone.

SPEAKER_00

And so I'm like, what? And and I'm like, this is crazy. And I kept and I kept repeating it. And then I'm like, I'm just crazy. This is crazy. You know, I'm now I'm starting to whatever you call that, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Hallucinate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thanks. Hallucinating. I was a few blocks from my house. I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna go home. Why I thought I could get home, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

I turned around and started walking on the beach, and every hair in my body went straight out. And I and you're gonna love this, but I think I think there's some guy behind me who's gonna kill me, rob me. And so what happens? So I turned around to face whoever that was, and there were probably, I don't know, 1,500, 2,000 spirit beings standing behind me. Oh my god. That's quite a crowd you attracted. It was a crowd. And you know, I I just remember falling to the sand and starting to cry.

SPEAKER_03

What was your reaction when you saw them? Did you know instantly that these were truly spirit beings?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, on some level I felt well, because I felt the compassion, I felt the love.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I felt the just the safety of that. You know, like nothing I'd ever felt before.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

But again, my mind is wondering if I'm already dead.

SPEAKER_04

Well, it should it certainly seems like it. There is a lot of spirits. Or if these are the drugs doing something to you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean what is this? Is it drugs? Is it dead? I mean uh you know, am I hallucinating? I mean, it was very confusing for me, but I fell to this ground and I cried. I don't know how long I laid there. I just sobbed for a long time.

SPEAKER_03

How long did the spirits hang out with you?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, they were there as long as I was. And then again, I probably an hour.

SPEAKER_03

Did and did were they talking to you or they're just standing there sort of showering you with love and compassion?

SPEAKER_00

It felt like a thousand people were holding me.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that's what it felt like. I was being held in uncondition, I was being held unconditionally. And and you know, whatever I thought, whatever I did, it didn't matter. They were just holding me. And that's so powerful. That's so beautiful. Um, and so I finally got up and I said, What am I supposed to do now? And again, I'm not sure if I'm alive or dead or who I'm talking to, or I'm talking to. And the voice or the thought or whatever said, go to Sedona. And I'm like, huh? Go to Sedona. That's very specific. It's very hard. Sedona 4 o'clock bus. Yeah. You know, and I've got this really nice BMW that they're looking for. And I've got like 200 bucks, and I I go back to my house, and I'm like, I'm not dead. Something's happening here. I don't understand it. Um, but you ask God, you know, do you have anything to say to me, God? And God says you're a healer, and go to Sedona, maybe I should pay attention to that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I told you this is an incredible story. This is great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love it. It gets worse. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so so did you I mean, did you have to sleep off the drugs?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, how the minute the minute that that I surrendered, which I guess I did without knowing that I had to, the minute that happened, there was no sign of it in my body at all.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. And I'm taking it that you eventually drove the BMW to Sedona?

SPEAKER_00

I drove the BMW to Sedona.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How many days later? Oh, like the next day.

SPEAKER_03

The next day.

SPEAKER_00

That's where I'm at. I'm in Sedona now. Yeah. You know, I I went to this like$29 motel. Not I didn't take my shoes off because it was so dirty. No. I thought I'd be here a day or two, and I shared like two weeks. And all these crazy things were happening to me that were just continually showing me that I wasn't crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, and and so finally, you know, and I were dad like, what do you want me to do today, God? So one day they said just go back to California. And so I'm like, okay. So I would go down to the beach where I drew the circle. That was like my phone booth to God. Uh I thought I could only communicate with whoever that was inside the circle.

SPEAKER_03

Inside the circle.

SPEAKER_00

So I guess I was still a little crazy, right?

SPEAKER_03

Well, you're learning.

SPEAKER_00

You're learning that it's I'm trying to figure this out. But anyway, so I went back to to Southern California and I went to my phone booth and I said, So what am I supposed to do now? And this voice or this thought said, Print business cards and put them up. And I started laughing. I'm like, are you serious? You know, you really want me to get a business card? What's it gonna say?

SPEAKER_03

I can't believe how um specific instructive, yeah. Yeah, your divine voice godwell. Well, it had, I mean, think of the condition that I'm in. Yeah. As a healer, I'm assuming. Well, I said, what would the business card say? And if they had any logo advice, too, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they did. So um they said just say Rob Wergan healer and put a medicine wheel on it.

SPEAKER_03

A medicine wheel.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. I'm like, okay. So I went to, you know, the stationery store and got remember those cards you could bring in and they were perforated, you know, you'd feel that they were like really so I somehow got a medicine wheel off the internet and put a little something on there and put Rob Worgan healer. You know, and then I'd go back to my phone booth. I mean, this sounds crazy, but I'm telling you the truth. I'm all right.

SPEAKER_03

Your phone booth is the circle in the sand. Circle in the sand, because that's where you communicate with God. Is this is this okay, God?

SPEAKER_00

Did you actually do that? I swear I did. I mean, I'm I think I'm crazy, right? So I'm like, I'm just gonna go with it because I asked for this. So I'm like, okay, now what? Well, I don't know if you know, on 2nd Street and PCH, there was a health food store right there. And they had a they had a bulletin board in them, you know, by the cash registers. You could put your cards up. And I'm like, I said, what do I do? And they said, put your cards up at health the health food store.

SPEAKER_03

That's the most the most basic uh the bulletin board at the health food store.

SPEAKER_00

You So I go there and there's like no space, and they're like, Can't take any cards down. And I'm like, I don't really want to put these up anyway, because if somebody calls it, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And so you put a couple up and Yeah, so I put some up, and I literally, I think I was on my bike, and by the time I got back to my house, the phone was ringing. Wow. And this and I said hello, and this woman said, Hi, may I speak to Rob? And I said, speaking, and she said, Can I make an appointment with you this afternoon? I'm like, what for? Seriously. I mean, I'm like, I'm like Oh, you had no idea it was coming from the card. And so then I said, Oh, did you see my card? And she goes, What card? And I'm like, My card, and she goes, No, I'm in LA. And I'm like, You're in LA, and I just put this card up like five minutes ago in Long Beach, and she said, Yeah, I got your name from your assistant. And I'm like, huh? And then I started to figure I better play along, and I'm like, oh, her. And and this woman says, Yeah, I was sitting in the front row of the bus, and this beautiful older woman sat down next to me and touched my shoulder and said, You know, lady, you look very troubled. You should call this man, he can help you. And she gave her my phone number. Did the assistant have the card? No, she just got my phone number. She gave you your phone number, okay. So I'm like, So you didn't get my car, and she goes, Well, I don't know what you're talking about. I got your number, I got your number from your assistant. And you must be good because you have an assistant that travels around. On the bus. So she says, Can I come now? And I'm like, No. And I'm like, Tomorrow. Your assistant said I could come today and I didn't have to pay you. And I'm thinking, this is not a good gig.

SPEAKER_03

It's a terrible assistant, too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're fired, whoever you are. And but anyway, I ended up buying a massage table and a garage sale and setting up in my room, setting up a room with NUCDs and some candles. I didn't have a frickin' idea what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_03

I I love that you bought the NUCDs.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, you have to.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so does this woman come over? She comes to my house, she and she refuses to tell me her name. Says, I you know, I know guys like you, they're gonna Google me, look, figure out who I am, and you're gonna pretend like you know something. So I'm not telling you anything.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm not paying you.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Perfect, perfect job.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. So she comes and and I've got Kleenexes tucked under my armpits because I'm so scared, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And and I'm like, okay, lay down on the table. I'm like, just close your eyes. I'm like, hey, uh I'm like, excuse me, but I need to help you. And they're like, just put your hands, like, cup cradle her head and uh put my hands in. I say, just take a deep breath. And immediately the spirit shows up next to her, next on my right side, her dad, and uh he's got a tuxedo and a rose, and his hair slick back. And and I and I he says, Tell Judy her dad's here. So I'm like, okay, Judy, your dad's here. And she goes, First, how do you know my name? And my dad, my dad, we just buried my dad last week. How could he be here? And I'm like starting to get a little freaky, wait a minute. And so anyway, so we have this conversation on the medium between her and her dad, and we're having this discussion. And then this guy, this young, handsome guy, kind of literally shows up in the room and pushes dad out of the way, and he says, Tell Judy, it's I'm making these names up, I don't remember, but it's Jim. And I say, Well, Jim's here now, your dad's gone. And she starts screaming bloody murder, and I'm thinking, like, somebody's gonna call the cops because it sounds like I'm stabbing this poor woman. And and uh long story short, is that about 10 years before that, she was madly in love with this guy, and they lived in Long Beach, and and it was a Saturday night, and they were watching a movie, and um they decided to get a pizza. I got all the details about what kind of pizza it was, time it I mean, just specific stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Jim is Jim is giving you these details.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Jim is giving us because the the what happened was that she went to get the pizza and when she came back, he was dead on the floor with a gun and killed himself. And so she couldn't figure out she, I mean, can you imagine? Like, he didn't say anything. There was no no, nothing happened. What happened? What did I do? And she showed me pictures of this beautiful young woman that turned into this like mess because she couldn't deal with that, and now Jim's telling her what happened, which is that he heard something at the door and he thought it was her, and he opened the door, and it was this guy with a gun robbing him, and he had a gun. Jim had a gun, he reached under the sofa and got it, and the guy boom and left. And the cops, it was Saturday night, and like, it's a suicide, you know. What are you had a gun in his head? What are you talking about? Oh my god. So that was the first person I saw.

SPEAKER_05

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that changed her life. Well, it changed mine too. I mean, I was like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, and so then that was your first client, as an adult at least, as a healer. Yeah.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

That's pretty uh now. Do you feel like you're do you're actually speaking to God and you're in the right?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I'm I'm confused. Oh, you still are. I mean, as she left, and I just I started crying. I'm like, I don't know. And but for the next couple of weeks, every day or two, somebody would call me and say, I just met your assistant in Ralph's, and she gave me your phone number. It was always the same lady. Who's who's the assistant?

SPEAKER_04

We don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. You still do to this day, do you not know? I was an angel. My cart my cards were never touched in in the gro in the store.

SPEAKER_03

You had to put the cards up because that was sort of the thing.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that was that's that's I was claiming to the universe that I was a healer, right?

SPEAKER_03

I claimed that I and then this angel in Los Angeles is telling people to call you and has your phone number.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my God. So from the And the first like three people were all suicide things. So the guy was wasn't a suicide, it was supposed to be. The next lady, her son, committed suicide, then another guy was a young kid who committed suicide. And I'm like, oh great, I'm gonna be like the suicide guy because I tried it myself. But then it switched, and you know, the rest is kind of history. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03

First of all, that's so interesting that because you had gone really to the precipice of suicide, that you were sort of available for these people and could be a channel in their healing. Um but you say the rest is history. Let's just just because you've been very modest. 400,000 later. So for the later. Yeah, I mean you you have touched a lot of lives. And tell tell me like what what do you do now in in in your practice in this uh amazing work that you do? Tell me like what does it look like? What how do you how do you heal someone? How do you help someone?

SPEAKER_00

Well, first of all, I don't attach to them. You don't attach, did you say? I don't attach to them.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I I I observe them as where they are, but I don't I don't step into their situation. I just observe their situation.

SPEAKER_03

You keep you keep a certain amount of distance from it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And I can tell people it's like I'm watching you on TV right now. So if I was working on you right now, it would be like I'm watching you on TV.

SPEAKER_03

I can't can't I can touch you, but I can't really it's emotionally investing. You can't emotionally invest in the person. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and which is why I can't work on myself. It's hard for me to work on my kids.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it's hard for me to work on my wife. It's like, you know, it's because I get I I I have to like crawl through the emotional stuff that's between us or that I know, and it's it's much easier to work on a perfect stranger because I know nothing.

SPEAKER_03

And and you need to make this sort of you need to create this posture for yourself of non-attachment. But then the person, it sounded like from what you're saying, is also has to have an attitude of surrender, right?

SPEAKER_00

Well, and for example, you know, your sidekick there, he's got to stop talking about all the stuff's wrong with him, because as long as he talks about it, it's always gonna be there. So, you know.

SPEAKER_04

First of all, uh I yeah I'm not his sidekick. How about that big function? He's the sidekick. I I think that's a f I don't talk about I hear that. I I I I buy into that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, he doesn't be he's beginning to buy into it. I for for a year, a couple years now, he's just been saying our minds create our reality.

SPEAKER_00

Well, so I mean here's here's what I know. I mean, nope, I I didn't have anybody to train me. I didn't have a guru, I didn't have anything.

SPEAKER_04

Well, you had a direct line to God.

SPEAKER_00

Well, but I didn't know that. I didn't I didn't trust it, and I didn't really know it. And so, and the truth is they wouldn't tell me much because I needed to, just like in life, I needed to stumble and fall a bunch of times, so I really understood how something worked and how something didn't work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It didn't they didn't hand me a manual and go, okay, read this and follow these seven steps, and you'll be great. Nothing like that. So I would take on people's energy, I would get in the way, I would do all these stupid things, and they just kind of snapped back and go.

SPEAKER_03

So you had to learn how to be a healer by failing in many, you know, or at least stumbling.

SPEAKER_00

Well, absolutely. I mean, I didn't so I mean when when I started actually doing healing, which was here in Sedona 23 years ago, I had a massage table in this room that I worked, and underneath the massage table I had this shelf that had an outline. I mean, I'm a corporate guy, right? So I have a I have a PowerPoint presentation under the table of how I'm supposed to do healing work. First I say this prayer, then I call in the directions, then I do this, and then I do that. And and then I realized that was crazy, you know. I'm because I'm trying to be in control.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I've got to get out of the way. So if you ever watch me working, I don't even look at the people I'm working on. I I'm like looking here, looking there, or looking up. Because if I'm looking at you, I'm like, that's a cool black sweater. And where'd you get that coffee cup? And you know, my brain's doing the brain thing instead of I I don't want to get involved.

SPEAKER_03

So when you say do you detach, you I mean you you won't even look at the person when you're in the middle of the healing.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you're you're that I might look at a woman so I don't touch her in the wrong place, right? But you know, everything that I do, I'm not in control of.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So whatever I say, whatever I touch, I'm not doing it because I think I should do that. It just happens.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I used to hear these people say, he doesn't know what he's doing. You know, her stomach's what's the problem? He's touching her left shoulder. And I'm like, and my and then I would try to correct it, and my hand wouldn't move. I'm like, okay, and then they would have this, the person would have this amazing healing experience or this amazing release. And then, like, how did he do that? He wasn't even close to where her problem was, you know. Because the the the problem is the outcome, it's not the source. So the sh your sore shoulder is what's bringing you to the doctor or to a healer. It's not what's wrong with you. It's like a debate. It's coming from somewhere else, and so you don't want to go there.

SPEAKER_03

You don't want to go to the symptom, but you you're you're I want to go to the root cause, right? But but are so when you say you couldn't move your hand, I mean, do you feel when you're doing the healing, do you actually feel like your body is being directed by some other I'm like a I'm like a puppet.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_03

And what uh what do you sense? I mean, do you sense like your hand goes to a certain area? Do you feel energy coming out of your hand? What do you feel?

SPEAKER_00

You know, honestly, I don't pay any attention to it. I I used and I'm serious. I used to. I mean, I used to because I wanted to know.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

But that gets in the way.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Everything gets in the way. It gets in a way. So it's like, you know, if my hand goes over here, I don't go, I wonder why my hand went there. I'm still looking out the window and not paying attention to it because everybody's different. And, you know, if like two weekends ago we did a thing here in Sedona where we had a hundred people in the room and I'm working on one person and they're all feeling the same thing, everybody in the room is feeling what I'm doing with one person.

SPEAKER_03

And that's how it works. Because I've seen you at the agape church, is that how you say it? At the agape church, I saw some video of you doing healing, and there's a couple people in the front that you're actually putting hands on, I guess is what they call it, but there's a whole audience, and you're actually healing the whole audience.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, everybody. So if you if you're in the if you're in the field that that's created around me, not only am I working on you, I'm working on your ancestors all the way back to the point that something happened that hasn't been cleared.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So let's say your great-great-great-great great-great grandfather was an alcoholic, and they've passed that down over and over and over. And so everybody in your family has a heart problem, or is an alcoholic, or has an addiction problem, or whatever it is. So we go all the way back to whatever caused that first thing, that seed, yeah, that turned into a snowball that's been rolling downhill for a hundred years, and you it's in your body now, so I pull it out of your body and it comes out of everybody behind you, and everybody before it.

SPEAKER_03

And how much of that are you aware of? Are you aware of the lineage of that disease?

SPEAKER_00

Can you Well, I am, but it's too much to be aware of.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I mean, when I first started doing this, I was totally fascinated. I'm like, wow, that was cool. You know, I'd write it down, you know, or I'd say, you know what just happened? Do you know why you're afraid of fire? You were burnt at the stake. I mean, I'll never tell anybody that again, because then, you know, you're gonna go to Google and you know, go to the witches of Eastwick and see if you were a witch burnt at the stake, and you're gonna consume yourself with trying to figure out what happened and why, and you're gonna screw it up.

SPEAKER_03

And and it's irrelevant, really. It doesn't matter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Same thing wherever something happened, and so there's like no limitation. You gotta go back to the very first event that created that energetic imprint that's been rolling forward for lifetimes.

SPEAKER_04

Is there any way to like access that without someone like you? So, like what I mean is like the the people who can come to a seminar, you know, are lucky enough to to get into a room with you and stuff like that. What would you advise people who can't make it to a seminar? Is there any way to sort of clear that stuff without you or you know, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00

I never really thought about that a lot. One of the things that I get criticized for, believe it or not, all the time, is I'm too cheap. I don't charge enough money.

SPEAKER_03

You make it very accessible for people.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I mean Look, you know, I was given a gift. Yeah, I gotta make a living. Yeah, I gotta pay bills. But am I the healer to the Hollywood people? I had the chance. I was in Hollywood for a while doing all the you know, top people, but I'm like, this is crap. Yeah you know, they want a deal, they're like trying to discount you, and you know, the person laying out in the gutter is the one who really needs you. And so it's like that lady that came, the very first client that I saw, she brought me a rock with a heart painted on it with fingernail polish, and that's what she paid me.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

You know, there's people on Zoom all over the world now, and I'm I'm as dirt cheap as I can be because I I don't want there to be any barriers. There shouldn't be a barrier. Just because you're rich shouldn't be you know, and there's a lot of healers out there that cater to those high-end, which is okay, but I couldn't sleep at night if I did that.

SPEAKER_03

Uh Rob, I think what you do is so amazing, and I think your story is so amazing, and you're you're so genuine, and it's an honestly, it's an honor to talk to you. I mean, it's it's so inspiring.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and just remember that I'm human though, too, and I tell people that I'm no different than you guys are. I have my good days, my bad days.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I have emotions, I have you know, I get mad, I get I get insecure. I mean, all these things, I'm still, and I like that because it keeps me real.

SPEAKER_03

So, where are you at spiritually, like in your spiritual life, in your spiritual practice? Do you do you put much time into that or really focus on the healing? What what like what's your worldview?

SPEAKER_00

Your spiritual healing is my spiritual practice. Yeah. You know, I'm working literally 24 hours a day. Um, I sleep very little. Um, at night, there's lines of people. I know it sounds weird, but there's lines of spirits or like your soul is in front of me.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Um, because I know that when I see you guys today, that that I'm gonna have already seen you before you get here, so I don't have to think about it when you're here.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, so all that happens at night. And so, you know, people are always asking for prayer from me, asking for help from me. And it's like it's a 24-hour day job.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. So just to be clear about that, so so you're gonna be on a podcast with David and me, and are you saying that on some sort of more subtle level? They'll feel it. Who'll feel it?

SPEAKER_00

The people on that are watching the podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, certainly, but I I did I I maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you were saying that David and I in some subtle level showed up in a case of the podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_03

We do.

SPEAKER_00

And what's really crazy is that everybody that watches the podcast will show up before they watch the podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. That's a lot of people to deal with.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so but that but people have a you know, they think that I'm coming into their bedroom, I'm I'm trespassing. I'm not. I'm I'm I'm seeing a bead of energy that has David on it or Jay on it. You know, I know who it is, but I don't know who it is. And I it's not personal. I can't, I mean, not in somebody's bedroom or their bathroom or kitchen or anything. I'm just I'm gonna quick, I mean, it's that fast.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

It's like if you lay down on a giant Xerox machine and the thing was zzz zzzing, I would I I would know everything I about you that I need to know, but I don't pay attention to it because I actually don't need to know it.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I'm you're better off not knowing.

SPEAKER_03

So do you actually have a recollection of David and B you know, just as two examples? No, no. But but it happens because this is what's happening at night. You have all these people that are going, your influence is going to be touching them, and they all kind of show up in advance to sort of get the the path cleared, I guess.

SPEAKER_00

And it happens the same if you're if if I was if you came to one of my seminars and I worked on you, uh chances are if I saw you an hour later outside in the parking lot, I I won't remember anything anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and I'm not supposed to.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, if I used to try to remember it, and it, you know, it was overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

When this first started, I was in Korea. And, you know, I'm walking through the crowds of thousands of people, and I'm seeing everything there is about them. When are they gonna die? When are they gonna get this? I mean, it was like cool for like a nanosecond. I'm like, shit. It's overwhelming. This is overwhelming and it's none of my business anyway. They didn't ask me to look at them. Yeah. You know, and so I I had to learn how to like, even though it seemed kind of cool, I had to learn how to like turn that off.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All right. So I've got one more thing. You're gonna ask me about the Zozer thing. Uh you're gonna ask me about that, right?

SPEAKER_03

How did you know that?

SPEAKER_00

Psychic.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you are so psychic. Okay, that for that's incredible. So I have a friend named Nina who I mentioned to her that I would be speaking with you, and she was like, Oh my god, Rob Work, and she's been to a number of your retreats. She said you have to ask him about Master Zozar, who is someone who is now influencing your work. And tell, can you tell me who Master Zozar is?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so put yourself in my place 23 years ago, and these beings are showing up in the room. I can see them. And I'm like, who are you? Right?

SPEAKER_03

What are you doing here? Why are you here? And who are you, right? This is this is like your treatment room, and you're treating someone, and beings are showing up.

SPEAKER_00

Like I'm looking at somebody who looks just like you, yeah, standing there. I'm like, who are you? And you know, they don't wear a name tag, so like, who are you? And early on, these beings would show up and I'd say, Who are you? And then I would try to remember their name, and as soon as they were over, I'd get on Google and you know, do my best to Google Melchizedek or whoever it was, you know, Zozer or whatever. And that's how we learned about that's how I learned is like, oh, that's who that is, that's what they do. Um, and so anyway, so this really big, tall Egyptian dude shows up like day one. You know, he's like, and turban and all that stuff, and like, who are you? And he's like, Pastor Zozer.

SPEAKER_03

He's got a deep voice, it's that's good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and he built the very first pyramid in Egypt. Uh huh. He built the very first pyramid. This is called the Step Pyramid. He built it as a healing uh place to come to have healing. And so he was the healer to all the pharaohs, he was a metaphysician, he was an alchemist, he was all these things, like the top of the top. And all of a sudden he's hanging out with me. And he's teaching me things and showing me things like I mean, these these guys, I'll call them guys, can literally take their hand and reach in your body and take your heart out and do stuff with it and put it back in. I mean, seriously.

SPEAKER_03

Are you saying like Master Zuzar could do that when he was in the flesh, or this is what he as a spirit be?

SPEAKER_00

Then and can do it now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But so anyway, so he he showed up and he's taught me, he's been with me for 23 years. And he teaches you techniques, or he's just supporting your work. So what I'm a very curious guy. So I'm like, it was like when I first started doing this, I'm talking to God. It was like I'm negotiating an employment agreement with him.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I'll do this if you'll explain to me what I'm doing. Uh-huh. Because I don't want to be, I don't want to go into a trance, right? Like some people do. I want to I want to see what's happening because it's interesting. You know, can you imagine just I don't want to get bored, I want to be fascinated by it, which I am.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And and so he was he he came by to really teach me about how blood works and how all the energy fields work in the body, and all these different things work in the body, and how you can fix them very simply by doing this or by doing that, or saying this, or you know, whatever. So he's been with me for a long time.

SPEAKER_03

So he's but he's teaching you things that you don't really even need to know. You're just sort of curious because No, I I demand to know because I want to. I'm just curious. You're curious, but it's not like you actually have to do these techniques because it just happens.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not reaching in and grabbing anybody's heart and pulling it out. I'm not doing any of this stuff. Thank goodness I'd flip out.

SPEAKER_03

And you might get into trouble with uh some authorities too. The American Medical Association.

SPEAKER_00

I've been threatened a few times, too.

SPEAKER_03

I imagine.

SPEAKER_00

I imagine by veterinarians, by MDs, by psychiatrists, all those people come after me.

SPEAKER_03

People like you threaten uh a lot of the status quo.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because I'm practicing that in their world, I'm practicing medicine without a license.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I can't tell you to take vitamin C because if I tell you that I've prescribed it to you and I'm practicing medicine without a license, I could go to jail.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well stupid. Yeah, it's crazy. Rob, this has been an absolutely amazing conversation. I'm so inspired by the work you do and and how many people you've helped. And I'm I'm so excited about just getting this information out to people uh and and and sharing. I don't know, it's got to be a lot of hope for a lot of people who are who are suffering.

SPEAKER_00

All right, guys. We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Rob. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Realization Lab on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.