S1 Ep 5: She Changed Everything / Ronnie Pontiac (part 1)

What if love doesn’t end… even after death?

As a young man, Ronnie Pontiac didn’t believe in love at all. He believed the world was brutal, meaningless—and he was determined to reflect that darkness back into it.

Raised by Holocaust survivors, shaped by violence, and spiraling into crime, addiction, and nihilism, Ronnie was heading toward an early death. Until one night… everything changed.

In a seedy club in Los Angeles, he locked eyes with a girl who didn’t belong there. She was in danger. And for the first time in his life, something unexpected woke up inside him.

What are the transformative powers of love? And what happens when love leaves you all too soon? Is it really gone?

These are questions we will explore with Ronnie—and with psychic medium Christopher LaPrath, who will attempt to help Ronnie reconnect with the love he lost… and uncover whether a connection like that can truly disappear.

Ronnie Pontiac

https://www.youtube.com/@theronniepontiac

substack.com/@ronniepontiac

Christopher LaPrath

https://www.christopherlaprath.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

But she was so shy, like she literally just sat on the side of the bed with her head down, you know. But I realized what was happening, and so I I kissed her, and the sun was coming up, and that was the first time we made love, and the experience was amazing. It was love. I didn't know that, but it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced in my life, and and I I was kind of scared, like I really felt like this was gonna ruin my life.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

What happens after we die? Do we still exist? And if we do, where do we go and why? For as long as human beings have walked the earth, these questions have haunted and fascinated us. They sit at the heart of every culture, at the foundation of every spiritual tradition. But what if some people could see beyond death? What if they could communicate with souls who have left this world and cross into the next? Christopher Laprat is a uniquely gifted psychic medium. Using his psychic abilities in coordination with tarot cards, Chris can relay messages from spirit guides, departed loved ones, and other non-physical entities. In each episode of this series, I'll introduce Chris to a guest whose life has been deeply shaped by the loss of someone you love. During the conversation, Chris will attempt to contact that departed soul and any other non-physical beings who wish to come through. Death may be life's greatest mystery. But sometimes it answers back. Today's guest is Ronnie Pontiac. Ronnie was born in Southern California to war refugee parents who had barely survived the Nazis. Picked on and bullied throughout his youth, Ronnie's life turned very dark. Until he was saved by a woman who Ronnie thought he was saving. With Tamara at his side, Ronnie's entire life turned around. Together they created music, literature, and art. Ronnie's unique energy even caught the attention of legendary mystic Manley P. Hall, who asked Ronnie to be his personal assistant and who in many ways became Ronnie and Tamra's spiritual mentor. But above all else, Ronnie and Tamra's life together is a powerful, timeless love story. And that's what this episode is about. Ronnie Pontiac, thank you so much for being with us on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Thank you so much for having me. This is gonna be interesting. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

I've invited you because you have an incredible love story to tell, and we are going to explore that through the help of a psychic medium. But what let's just start first by telling me a little bit about who you are and and where you're from. Where where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I grew up in the San Fernando Valley. Uh-huh. And my parents were war refugees. From World War II, I'm assuming? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

And were they concentration camp uh refugees?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

My father was a concentration camp refugee. He was one of the few children that survived. He demonstrated to the German guards that he could work. And so they they let him work in a factory. He was a slave. Because most kids were just immediately gassed. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

And your mother, what was her?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

She survived in the Warsaw ghetto, and she was at first she survived by crawling around trying to find food, scavenging in basements. Right. She was ultimately caught. And there was an SS colonel who took a fancy to her, even though she was a child. Uh-huh. And so she became his mistress in a sense. She was trafficked. And then when they were retreating, she was grabbed by the Russians, and so she went through outrages there. And she figured out that she could volunteer for nursing training for the Red Army.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Okay, so you have a loaded uh ancestry.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, very much so. Almost my entire family was wiped out. They were amongst the few survivors. And they both came to Los Angeles, strangely. They were people who never really learned to trust Americans or anybody. They were atheists. And they waited a really long time to have me. I I don't think. In fact, later in life, my father said to me, Your mother and I have talked, and we think it was a mistake to have had you.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

I think the main point here is it was probably a fairly challenging upbringing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

It was a strangely star-crossed uh beginning. I was a runt, I was born prematurely, and then I spoke with an accent for maybe my first ten years because I was raised by people who spoke with a heavy accent. Right. So that attracted a lot of the wrong kind of attention at school.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Aaron Ross Powell And was it a volatile household? Like was there Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Oh, yeah. Well they were they were constantly fighting and they were both constantly sick because of what they'd gone through. They would go through these long silences and they would send me in between them to deliver messages.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Because they weren't talking to each other. So it sounds like a really rough environment to grow up in. You know, you're a kid, your parents are have had terrible childhoods themselves. And uh so where where did this take you in your life?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Well, I realized when I was taught in school about the social contract, I realized I didn't have one because at home I was not really treated well. And so and at school I was beat up all the time because I was this freaky foreign kid.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Right. So And you were smaller than maybe than the other kids.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

I was kicked up a grade, so that didn't help.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Not only were you smaller, then you were smart. And so they kicked you up a grade, so you're just gonna be even m more standout.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

So I realized since I don't have a social contract as I hit my teens.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Wait, I just want to back up by social contract, you're referring to the ideas of the Renaissance and John Locke, the social contract.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So therefore, you have to give back. I have to give back. Right. I felt like no one took care of me, so I don't need to give back.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

You owe nobody nothing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Exactly. None of the rules applied as far as I was concerned. Right. So I started out simple with shoplifting and I realized the power of lying, which was very powerful. And then by the time I hit like around age 17, 18, I was uh really nihilist, I was racist, I was violent, um, I was displaying all kinds of criminal behavior, and I wanted to front a band. And I wanted the band to be just the ultimate in darkness. Like I thought that people like Jim Morrison were posers, that that you know, Alice Cooper and Iggy and all of them were just entertainers. Right. You wanted to be the real darkness. Exactly. And I found, to my shock, not only musicians who shared that and who uh for a little time until they realized how crazy I was, they they supported me unconditionally. But I found a big audience of people who were hateful, frustrated people who recognize in my anger. And ultimately, partially through the criminal activities I was involved in.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Um your band and you were involved in criminal activities. Now I don't want you to incriminate.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I mean just me, not the band. Trevor Burrus, but not the band. Yeah, not the band. They were okay. What kind of criminal activities? Aaron Ross Powell, I don't want to get into it. Um it was bad stuff. Yeah, this wasn't like kids' stuff. I was involved in some pretty bad things.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Trevor Burrus, Were you working independently or were you working with crime organizations?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Aaron Ross Powell I started out independently and then I I never really worked for anybody, but I had certain powers as somebody who had a following and had a lot of people around me. Uh huh. So I was able to take advantage of that.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Aaron Powell Not sure what that means. Do I want to know or do you want to tell me or no? I won't I won't uh go into it. Okay, so you've you've developed a really dark side to you. You're expressing it through your music, you're sort of creating a little bit of a following because there are a lot of people in the world who who gravitate towards that message because they're experiencing a lot of the same turmoil and and pain that you're that you're in.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

You know, in the beginning it was very empowering to go from being somebody who was just beat up all the time to somebody who had uh guest lists that said anyone wearing the colors of the Satan's slaves or the devil's henchmen. And they were like our security. So that was powerful for me to be. Wait, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 9:23

They were the it was that were those the names of of bouncers?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Biker gangs.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Biker gangs. Satan slaves and the devil's henchmen were the two gangs that were working for you guys as well. Not really working for us informally.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

They liked what we were doing. And and I liked them because there was a code of honor amongst them that was different than what you would see almost anywhere else in life where there was gossip and competition and backstabbing. You couldn't really do that in that world. So that appealed to me.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Aaron Powell Because there was this code of honor. You can't you can't screw over your brother, basically.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah, it was like an outlaw code.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so so you've got these henchmen sort of or these bikers who are part of your world. Yes. Um you're you're doing shows, you're suddenly having this experience of being it's like must have felt like you found your place in the world a little bit, like, oh, here I am, people are responding to me.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

In a way, I I mean I was I was certainly at that point I was already drinking myself to death, and I'd planned to be dead before I was 30, as my future wife Tamra would say, ew, 30. But but that's how I was. I just thought I don't want to be around that long. Uh but while I'm here, I'm going to spread all the bad news that I can.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

And your thought was when I'm dead, that's the end of it, and there was no life after or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I thought that the world was a jungle, it was nonsensical. I thought humanity sucked, and I thought that there was nothing spiritual and no God.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yeah. That sounds like a heavy place to be. Um and clearly it was having its uh toll on you. Although, in a way, in your in your darkness, you were flourishing.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

It it by gaining that power, it actually put me in the right position for my life to turn into something beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Ah, yeah, of course. It pushed you so far to the side. So the thing that pushed your life into something beautiful, which is really the reason we're here today to talk about, tell us the story of what saved you.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

So um the guitar player in the band quickly figured out I can't stay around these maniacs. Like I would just want to make some money and have girlfriends, and these people are dangerous. Right. So he quit the band. Right. So my drummer, who was a violent person but not a criminal, right? He showed up one day at my door and he said, We gotta go find him and force him back into the band.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Because he needed a guitarist, a good guitarist, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah, and he was good. And I said, How do we do that? And he said, Well, tell him. If he doesn't rejoin the band, we'll break his fingers. And I thought that might work. And so we went to this notorious club in order, hoping that he was there. He was usually there.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

And that was within your code of behavior. A threat like that was that's that wasn't a big deal?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

We figured that that he we had given him success. He'd been this complete like owed his fingers to you and Exactly. Right. So there was yeah, it was it was pretty twisted. Okay. So he was usually at the club. We went down there on April 1st on a rainy night, and he wasn't there. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

And this is another music club where there are bands playing and things.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

No, no, this was just a hangout, a bar. Hangout bar, okay. And uh I shouldn't have even been there. I wasn't legally old enough, but I'd already been going there for a couple years.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Yeah, and you're already drinking yourself nearly to death. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah. And so that club um was really just a place for people to hook up musicians and girls. And we weren't there for that reason, and we stood out because we were scowling at everybody. And well, there was a girl there who I noticed, and she seemed like she didn't belong there. You could tell by the way she was dressed, her whole demeanor, that this was somebody that had never been in this kind of environment. And she had apparently attracted the attention of these five guys, this band really was of the fault of the person that she came with, a friend of hers, who kind of left her with these people. And they correctly surmised that she had been abused. She had been uh kidnapped when she was fifteen and and almost beaten to death, and only escaped because she grabbed the wheel when she was being driven to a graveyard uh and tried to kill herself and the attacker, and he'd scared him, so he let her go.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Okay, so hold on a second. So there the woman that you see at this club, which is kind of a it's a bit of a downward place, a little bit seedy. It's not very seedy. Very seedy, okay. Um kind of a pickup place. The woman you see that stands out is let's just give her a name. It's Tamra, right? Yes. Okay. So this is Tamra. Yes. Now she's come with this guy who has left her with a game. Oh, she's come with a girl who has left her with this group of guys who are sensing because people certain people can sense if if you've been abused, an abuser can sense that and then can take advantage of it, even if it's nonverbal. If it's just so these guys I have a sense that they've got a wounded animal in their midst. Um and you're also letting us know that the wound that Tamra had was specifically coming out of an incident when she was how old? When she was fifteen years old, she was kidnapped?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

And she was taken was she f sexually abused and badly beaten. And badly beaten. Um and she was being taken to a graveyard to be killed and and deposited there. And she escaped somehow.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

How did she escape? She grabbed the wheel as he was driving and tried to steer them into oncoming traffic. Oh, killed both of them. And that scared him, and so he let her out. Wow. Did they ever catch that guy? No.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Okay. Um poor Tamra. Uh okay, so she carried that burden. Here she is in this situation. Uh God knows how she got herself into it. She followed the advice of a friend and was now stuck in it. You're seeing you're sort of seeing this play out on uh from a distance in a way?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, I noticed what was happening, but I didn't want to get involved. Um she was watching me as somebody that she thought might be someone she could ask for help.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Aaron Ross Powell She somehow clued in on you thinking I'm in trouble, this guy might help me, even though you're a total stranger. Yes. And can I just say at this time, not a particularly nice guy either.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Trevor Burrus, Jr. She said I looked like an anime villain. An anime villain. Yeah. But she for some reason she felt that there was something in me. And so she was even warned. The club manager saw her looking at me. He walked up to her and he said, You look like a nice girl. Don't talk to that guy. He's dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Wow. Warned against you, but there was something in her telling her you were the guy that was gonna help her. And you think she was legitimately in trouble with these five years.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Oh, definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

You did you know these guys? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

But you could tell they had they had bad intent to when she would try to get away from them, they were they were kind of triangulating her, they were whispering to each other, they were you could see them kind of they'd be plotting, and then she'd turn around and look at them, and they'd all smile. Right. It was obvious that something was going on.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

And what's your thinking at this point in your life, because you're not necessarily, you know, a knight in shining armor, what's your thinking about your concern for this person?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Aaron Powell I had none at that point.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I just I just watched what was happening and it was just typical that's the club, these are the kind of people. That's the world though. That's why I'm the case. That's your whole world. Yeah, exactly. Like this is just proof of why I'm who I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

So then what happens?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Well, as it became 2 a.m. and she realized there was no escape, um, she found me standing outside in the rain smoking this black Russian cigarette and watching everybody. And she walks up to me. And poor thing, she I just remember her blue eyes. She was just so scared. And she looked up at me and she said, Please help me, I'm in trouble. She knew she was in trouble. Yeah. And I said, What's going on? But she knew what was going on. Yeah, but I still was so she explained to me what was happening, and that she was really afraid that they were going to do something to her. Right. Something woke up in me. Um, I felt a chivalry almost about about this poor girl, the innocence, the fear, and and then I was watching them watching me, and they were trying to posture, and that pissed me off.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

They were trying to scare you off, like don't fuck with our prey, basically, you know. And these are probably badass guys, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I don't know. They were they seem to me like kind of main I call them the mainstream dreamers. That's that's what they looked like to me. Like people who would come into town to make it, you know. Oh, I see. And so uh I told her to hold on and I went to get my drummer. Uh-huh. And 'cause he's a badass. Yeah. And so she thought I was ditching her. She thought, oh my God, like, you know, I I tell them this stupid story that I got myself in trouble. Why should he listen? Right. But I came back and they were pissed. You could see that when I was standing there with my drummer, and I I took my cigarette and I threw it in the ground and I looked at them while I was squashing it, and they they knew what I was saying.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

And Tamara was like, nonverbal at this point. You're you're you're squashing out your cigarette with your foot, looking at them, basically sending them the message don't fuck with this girl. I'm taking care of her.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

And you've got your drummer next to you.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. So they still thought it's five to two. Yeah. So what happened was they uh Tamara was um in this car that that's leaving this busy parking lot. I had my car. I tried to get behind her, but they got between us. And there was a light when you left. Hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

So Tamra, so you figure, okay, we're gonna make our escape, and you help Tamara get in her car, and I you get in your car. Is your drummer with you?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Okay. And you're just gonna follow her until she's safe. That's the plan. And she you've talked to her about this. Yeah. Okay. But as you're trying to execute this plan, they're in their car and they cut you off or basically get in between you.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah. So there was a light that you had to wait for in order to get out of the parking lot. And what they did was when it turned green, Tamara took off and they waited. They waited until it turned red and then they took off. But I was not somebody that was too concerned about traffic logs. So I just went in into it and there was you know screeching and mocking horns. And I pulled up and tailgated them so they could see my face. And I was just like, man, you fucked with the wrong motherfucker. And so at this point you're angry, probably.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

And were you ca capable of doing harm to them? Yes. So so your threats weren't idle?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

No. Okay. So then I knew I had to stay with her because they were following wherever she went. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Did she didn't she know to like hang back so you could catch up to her?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

No, but she was the first car. So she just she saw. She didn't realize you weren't behind her. Yeah. Well she knew I was behind them. Somewhere, okay. But she thought they would they would go, you know, like they didn't she didn't realize what they could do. Right. So we got to this apartment building that her brother managed. And so Tamara pulls up to her apartment building. It's a place where she can stay with her brother, but unfortunately her brother wasn't there. Okay. So as she was unlocking the door, and they were right there. They they pulled up and they came up behind her and and they were all standing there. So I stepped up and I stood next to her as she unlocked the door. And I had a feeling that I had never felt before in my life. I still remember like it was yesterday. I felt like I belonged there. And I never felt like I belonged in the world. Trevor Burrus, Jr. You belonged with this person. With her.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

And you felt like suddenly the sense of belonging. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah. And I just felt like I don't know, it was this chemistry or something. It was this strange feeling of rightness.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

It's a beautiful feeling to have, but I'm worried about you because you've got five guys who could just sort of overpower you at any moment. Is your drummer still with you? Yes. Okay. So that helps a little.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah. So it was also bad in a way for me because my I didn't believe in love and my I had this like like an operation going where I had different girls on different nights, and they would bring me food and money and liquor, and that's how I was surviving. Right. So the feeling that I felt, which I didn't recognize as love, but I did recognize it was something unique. Right. It it it made me uneasy. Right. And so we went upstairs into this place and uh sat on the couch, and there was a view over the city from this place. It was an empty apartment. And they were drinking in the kitchen. They brought like a six-pack of beer with them. Wait, who's they? The five guys. And so Tamara and I were sitting on a sofa looking out the window.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Wait, I'm confused.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

How did these guys get into her apartment? Oh, they just pushed their way in. They weren't, you know, I turned around and was like, you're not welcome here, and they just went right in. And we weren't willing to fight at that point. So I just thought I'll just stick with her and make sure that she's okay. And they didn't listen to her when she said, You guys aren't welcome here. They just they were they laugh it off. You know, that's the it's like, ha ha, you guys are funny. You know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

And no one would think to call the cops or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Trevor Burrus, Jr. What would you say? You know, that these guys were looking at her funny? You know, like there was no real they hadn't done anything. They were just forced themselves into the apartment. But yeah, but that that this was you know, this was a party town, and it was nighttime, we're coming from a club. It was just felt like party time. Aaron Ross Powell Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

So you're in this apartment, you're sitting next to this woman who, for the first time in your life, has uh induced a feeling which you can't name love, sense of belonging. And there are these five guys who are threatening her. What what happens?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Aaron Ross Powell Well, so we we talked for several hours while they were drinking, and they were kind of plodding over in the kitchen, waiting for us to leave, I guess. And she was talking.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Did you have a weapon?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

No.

unknown 23:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

And she was talking to me about her boyfriend, who she'd been with for three years since high school. And he had this great job. He got out of high school at 19, got a job in the studios, bought a house. And I was hearing her. What I was hearing was, I'm not a punk girl. I'm not a rock and roll girl. Like I don't do these things. I, you know, please, you know, protect me. And and I also thought to myself, man, I have sunken low. Like I'm protecting some other guy's girlfriend. Like, that is not me.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Aaron Ross Powell So you're feeling love on some level. Or maybe was that just outside the apartment that you had that sensation, or are you still feeling connected to this woman in some way that you can't explain?

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Aaron Powell I felt connected enough to want to protect her, but I also thought this is so typical, like you know, there's this kind of girl, they always hate me. And of course they do. Look at me. You know, I'm this evil.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Yeah. And you're kind of saying to yourself, what am I doing this with this girl who's not even in my world, who's got a boyfriend, and and this is ridiculous. And yet there's something inside you saying, I'm going to protect her.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah. Eventually they made their move. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

These five guys who have pushed their way into the apartment and have been drinking and plotting make their move.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah. So they they just kind of step into the room and they start to say to her, you know, well, we know why you brought us here. And you know, we can give you such a good time. Like, why don't we get busy? What are we waiting for? Trevor Burrus, Jr. Trying to fuck with her. Right, that kind of thing. And she turned around and looked at me with such terror.

unknown 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Because she knew that if I switched on her or if I decided to wash my hands a bit, she was done.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

Aaron Ross Powell And is the drummer still there? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Does he have a weapon? No. Okay. And so it really made me angry the way they were talking to her. They were like they were making it seem as though she was just pretending that she was afraid and that really she just wanted to get gangbanged, and that's why they were all there.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Which is the abusive mentality that they're tapping into that they had sensed.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Exactly. So I stood up and I said, Shut the fuck up. And so then they turned their attention to me and they said, Hey, there's five of us, and there's two of you. And my drummer stood up. And then I said, I looked at them really hard, and I said, I said, shut the fuck up. And Tamra said that there was like this aura of violence around me and my drummer, which there would be. Yeah. It wasn't like normal like guys get in a fight over a girl. Like this was these this wasn't right. Like and they could sense it. Yeah. So then they tried to bargain. They were like, well, you guys can go first. Really made me mad. So I, you know, so like I just I just made fists and I was like, I was like, come on. You know?

SPEAKER_03 26:13

You were so mad you actually were ready to fight.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Did you fight a lot with your fists? I mean, was that something that you did? I I could fight, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

And he was an incredible fighter. And I was I was a dirty fighter. I mean I tried to hurt people. I wasn't like, I'm gonna give you a black eye, like you were gonna remember me. Yeah. And so they got scared. Yeah. Um they could tell that we were very serious and that we had that just bad vibe, you know? So they left.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

This is such a great story. I mean, you're you're like a superhero. I mean, you're you're evil. But you're you're this is incredible. So they left. And what was Tamara's reaction?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Well, I said to her, Are you okay now? Uh can we go? And she said, No. She said, they could be watching, you know, I I'm afraid. Yeah. And I thought, yeah, that they probably are. So I said, What do you want to do? And she said, Well, where do you live? Right. And I said, I don't live far from here, I live up above sunset. And she said, Can I come back to your place for a few hours until my brother gets home? Yeah. And then I'll come back here and I'll be safe.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

And I was like, okay, you know, if you want to come back, come back to my place. And I live in this, it was like a closet. It was this tiny little bachelor. Yeah. I gave her a blanket and a pillow because I was protecting her. You know, I wasn't going to hit on her. I was just and and she was very quiet, and my drummer just fell asleep on the sofa. And I went to bed.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Was the drummer there for protection, or was this drummer there just because you have nowhere else to go?

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Yeah, exactly. And so she she kind of softly knocked on this uh there was no door. There was a little curtain, it was my door, you know. And there was a little column, and she kind of just softly knocked on it. And I said, the bathroom's over there. And but she didn't go to the bathroom. She walked in and she sat on the corner of my bed. But she was so shy, like she she seemed like she was ashamed almost. Like she she literally just sat on the side of the bed with her head down, you know. But I realized what was happening, and I thought, wow, I'm getting rewarded for my chivalry. Right. And so I I kissed her and the sun was coming up, and that was the first time we made love. And the experience was amazing. It was love. I didn't know that, but it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced in my life. And and I I was kind of scared. Like I really felt like this was gonna ruin my life.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

And well, your whole support system is gonna go out the window because all these women who are just sort of like taking care of all your needs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

You can't be hateful and filled with anger in front of band without energy if you're in love, you know. So I was in denial. I was just, no, no, this is just it's just really good sex.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Aaron Ross Powell, Because your whole life is built on not the opposite of love, on darkness and and and and hate and anger. And and this one person is about to turn your whole world upside down, and you know that, but here she is.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah. So she went home and her brother's lover, who'd just come back from surfing, he said, uh, wow, you look like you had a great time. And she said, I think I just met the love of my life.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

And so I didn't I didn't know, but she had my number. She called me. I took her out on a date, and I was using some other girls' money to buy her a chocolate souffle. I didn't even have enough money to eat. I just sat there drinking. And she was so cute. She had to be.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Wait, wait, wait. How long after your first night together is this?

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Maybe two nights, maybe like a day or two after I wanted to see her again.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Yeah, she called she called you up. Yeah. And then you made an arrangement, and then you took her out for a chocolate souffle on borrowed money or stolen money, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

This was borrowed. Borrowed money. And so I and she was so cute. She'd like curled up her hair and wore this out. And she didn't she looked kind of goofy, like it really wasn't she looked better just herself, but it was so cute.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

She was trying to make herself.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, exactly. And then that second experience with her was even more amazing. Wow. And and then it started to happen. Like I I would be with other women, and I would just feel like I don't want to be with this person. Like I want to be with Tamara. Like, where's Tamara? Yeah. And then it got even worse because then I'm in rehearsal, and I'm like, oh man, I don't even want to be in rehearsal. Like I I've lost all my my mojo. Right. And I was just Tamara, Tamra, Tamara. And so two weeks after meeting her, I approached her with such solemnity that she thought I was breaking up with her.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

And but you're breaking up with your old life, is what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah, and also I thought there's no way. You know, like I was gonna ask her to move in with me, and I just thought she's with a guy she's been with for three years, he's got a job, they've got a house. You know, like forget it. I mean, I'm a scumbag, she's having a wild fling with. And uh to my shock, she said, Yeah, I would love to move in with you. And I was the happiest I've ever felt in my life up until that point. And she also told me later that she had written two weeks earlier in her journal, there is no such thing as true love. So she she's two weeks prior to meeting you. Yeah. So that was She was going down that path too. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, there it was, and in this bizarre way. So you can see that becoming that person, that evil person, is how I was in the right position with the right presence to have her choose me and then to have this amazing change happen in my life. Aaron Powell That's incredible. So Tamara enters your life, and and what happens? I was very feral. And so she started to teach me how to be a civilized human being. Like, have you ever flossed your teeth? And she would say to me, You lie a lot. Isn't that hard to remember? Uh just these wonderful little advice pieces of advice about improving life. And I lost my will to be angry and hateful, so the band ended. Obviously, the other relationships ended. And so then other aspects of life opened up for us. Right. We began to have a spiritual life. And from that point, we spent 46 years together every single day, working on everything that we did together.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

So she moved in, and you guys were basically together every moment or largely every moment of your life from that point on.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Yes. We were we were of this weird kind of thing where normally people fall in love and they're infatuated and then it evens out. Yeah. We stayed infatuated with each other for 46 years. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

And you ended up falling into these jobs that were very with incredible people like Manley P. Hall and doing spiritual things and and creating other art which was uplifting and beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

And it's like a switch turned on, and I went from the world is a horrible place to if the world could make a Tamara, then it can't be all that bad. And then as I opened up that way, mentors showed up, and especially Manley Hall, who really civilized me and educated me and gave me opportunities to prove that I was someone that I didn't know I was.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Wow. That's a whole story in and of itself. So Tamara's no longer with us. I'm so sorry, because it's fairly recent. Tell tell us tell us what happened. Like what what was that?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Well, she you know, we had an incredible life together. She was always healthy. She never saw a doctor for over 40 years. And then in July of 2025, she suddenly uh became ill one day. And there was five days of decline at home. I found her non-responsive on the fifth day, had to perform CPR while the ambulance arrived. Then she was in the hospital. She recuperated very quickly, and they told me it was a miraculous healing. From what? She had um how can I say this briefly? This is a woman who who spent her life fighting bullies. And this is a woman whose careers in film and in music and in writing were about empowering people who were traumatized. And many of the causes that she championed were destroyed very quickly after the second election of our current president. So she had been very deeply involved in choice. She'd been very deeply involved in preventing the pipeline at Standing Rock. All these things that she had worked, spent her life to create, were wiped out one after the other. And she could not find a way to respond. Our band was gone because no one could afford to live in LA. Uh there were no films being made. She couldn't get anything organized.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

So her whole life purpose had sort of like imploded. All the things that were important to her, all the things that she had fought for and created had just sort of blown up.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yes. And she was exhausted after a lifetime of being a warrior. Yeah. And so she was not eating well, she was not sleeping well, and her anxiety was very strong. And I was trying to get her to eat, trying to get her to find ways to enjoy life and to enjoy being with me. Right. But her sense of justice was so violated and her desire to do something was so strong that it it eventually depleted her. And what I was told at the hospital was that she had the lowest level of electrolytes of anybody that had ever been admitted. So it had shut down her brain, which shut down her heart.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

The state of the world became too much for her.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

And it just inability to find a way to respond to it, to do what she'd always done. Four almost five decades of fighting. Right. And now suddenly there was no fight.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

And she couldn't find a foothold to fight from. Yeah. Well and so she went to the hospital, they recuperated her to some extent. She had a miraculous recovery, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_01 36:22

They told me that she was going to be home in a couple of days. And then they performed a test on her and they punctured one of her inner organs. And they weren't sure which one. Oh god. She was in a very weakened state and she was bleeding internally. And before they could even get a CAT scan, she was gone.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

I'm so sorry. Uh wow. And this is from the date that we're recording this, this is less than a year ago. Yes, it's about nine months. Wow. This is the person you were with for 46 years kind of attached to the hip and you know, was the the foundation of your entire you know, not just metamorphosis, but your entire life. Wow. Yeah. And how are you handling it?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Well, in the beginning, I was in utter despair, um, of course. Uh it was 10 days, uh the shock, and and I had thought she would be home any minute, so it was even more shocking. And she was someone that I spent my whole life like writing her magic and and helping her to do the things that she did. Because when I met her, she was shy, she thought she was stupid, she turned out to be brilliant and to be this fearless leader, providing safe spaces and lifting other traumatized young women into careers as filmmakers, as musicians, as authors. And and I was just along for this incredible ride with her, helping her do all these things. And I lived to please her. I lived to see her happy and to f every day to find ways to make her feel a sense of delight. And then then suddenly nothing, no no purpose in life. And uh I didn't know how I was going to deal with with things like cremation and death certificates, and and um I'd had a liminal experience um one week later on a Monday morning at dawn where I I can only describe it as it was like she got on top of me. It all I saw was light, it wasn't a dream. Uh-huh. Um I got little glimpses of her hair and her shoulder, which may have been my own subconscious, furnishing this recognition. Uh-huh. And it felt like it was like a like a 20-minute mutual orgasm is the only way to describe it. It was just this ecstasy that went on and on. It was no speech. And and when it was over, I was just in bliss. And she had left me with this very clear sense that things like her ashes were trivial. That the the things like paperwork and dealing with the law lawyers and such was nothing. That her living soul was living, she's still with me. And that there was this um you know, you clean up after the party.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Aaron Ross Powell Cleanup after the party. So that's just the ashes and everything is just cleaning up after the party, but the experience is real and it didn't end. It's still here. When did that experience happen where you felt her presence? A week after she passed.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

And you have actually been sensing her or other people have been sensing her in and around your world?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Aaron Ross Powell It's been amazing because the last book that we worked on was about life after death, about this deeply romantic couple who had explored it together. And the woman in that couple, Betty, had died just before their book was published very suddenly, just like Tamara. And they were very similar people. Yeah. And so it was eerie. It was like history rhymes, as Mark Twain says.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Um okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

So we're having this conversation now. Next week, we're going to be joined by Christopher, who's going to open up the uh open up his channels and see what comes through. And um Thank you so much for for participating in in this. I it's uh it's an incredible story and I'm so uh I'm so interested, and I have to say kind of excited to see where it goes. I hope that doesn't isn't um I hope that's respectful of the grief that you're in.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Thank you. I I have found the the messages that she has sent through other people and it's beautiful. It's beautiful to have that connection, but it doesn't make up for the loss of the physical self. And so all the beautiful things that we take for granted, like when you come home and somebody you love sees you and their face lights up and just so many things every day that remind me of uh how empty my life is since she left.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Yeah. And yet I think you and Tamra are not separated for long.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

That's that's how I deal with each day. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Okay, so uh I'll see you next week and we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yes, I look forward to it. On the next episode.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I mean, when you pulled the Empress card, I just thought Me too, because that's what I saw when you pulled the Empress card out there. The second you turned it, I was like, oh, the Empress is here. Tamara is here.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yeah, I actually got tears in my eyes. Yeah, I've I've got tears in my eyes.