S1 Ep 7: The Grief No One Talks About - When a Soul Pet Dies / Maddie Bill

When Maddie lost her beloved cat Ivy in a tragic accident, the grief was overwhelming. For many people, the death of a pet can be every bit as devastating as losing a family member—yet it's a kind of grief that often goes unrecognized and misunderstood.

In this deeply moving episode, Maddie shares the story of her extraordinary bond with Ivy and the heartbreak of losing her. Seeking comfort and answers, she meets with animal communicator Bernadette Gavin, who connected with Ivy before the recording and now shares the messages she received.

The conversation explores the unique connection between humans and animals, the profound grief that follows their loss, and the possibility that love may continue beyond death. Whether you've experienced the loss of a cherished pet or simply wonder about the bonds we share with the animals in our lives, this episode offers a heartfelt exploration of love, loss, healing, and hope.

Music: "Til They Bury Me" by Jeromy Darling (used with permission)

 https://www.bernadettegavin.com/

Transcript

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I think other people looked at her and was like, it's a cat. But to me, she was a human. She is hoping you will forgive her for leaving, as this was as much of a surprise to her as it was to you. I know. And now, although it's different with her passing, she's very much willing and able to continue the relationship with you. Okay. So sh these are her instructions. Okay. I love it. So she had instructions. Yeah, specific for Metty. I just she's a very bossy cat, so I love that she's leaving me with instructions. You will be my friend. We talk to our pets every day, tell them our problems, share our deepest secrets, and just blab to them like we would our closest friends. But what if they've been talking back all along? What if beneath all those tail wags and purrs and quiet stares? What if there are thoughts, feelings, even messages we've never fully understood? Bernadette Gavin is an animal communicator. She has a unique ability to open a channel with our pets and allow them to tell us everything they want us to know. In advance of each episode in the series, Bernadette will connect with our guest's pet, either living or deceased. She will then join us on the podcast to share with our guests the messages their pet wants them to know. According to Bernadette, our pets are constantly communicating with us. Isn't it time we found out what exactly it is they're telling us? Today's guest is Maddie Bill. Maddie is the daughter of Hollywood royalty. Her father, Tony Bill, began his career at 21 when after his first audition, he was hired to co-star opposite Frank Sinatra in Come Blow Your Horn. Maddie grew up on movie sets with her father, who segued into directing and producing for films such as The Sting, Shampoo, My Bodyguard, and with her mother, producer Helen Bartlett, on movies such as Untamed Heart, North Country, and many more. Maddie is a graduate of USC. She works in Los Angeles as a high-profile events planner, coordinating luxury corporate events for people like Beyoncé, Rihanna, and Netflix, just to name a few. Maddie, Bill, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you, Jay. How do you know me? Let's start with that. Well, I am dating your son, and I have been for the past five years. Yeah, so I would say that you're seriously dating at this point. Okay. We know each other quite well at this point. Growing up, was your life highly spiritual? No, not at all. We celebrated Christmas, we celebrated Easter, but only on like a very kind of superficial level, I would say. Honestly, meeting this cat and having this cat in my life is as crazy as it sounds, it it totally did make me feel like there was some sort of spiritual connection in in the world that that was at play. Yeah. So let's talk about Ivy for a second. So Ivy was a beautiful cat. How did you meet Ivy? So Ivy came into my life in 2020. Um, it was the height of COVID when everything was shut down. You couldn't even go to like a shelter to get a cat at all. Um, and we were searching high and low. We found her on Craigslist. She was like the first person that responded to us. And my sister and I rushed to go drive an hour and a half away to go find her and met this lady in a parking lot of Ralph's, and she just handed us the cat. And there was no selecting her. There was no um, it was just kind of fake. Here's a cat, here's my cat feeling. Yeah, exactly. Um, I had no idea who I like what what kind of being was coming into my life. Right. But she became my child, and um I think she came into my life. Sorry. At a time that, you know, it was my senior year of college, everything had shut down, my friends were all gone. Um, and I was really depressed. Yeah. Um she she came into my life and it it was beautiful and magical and taught me what it what it is to be mom and all those things. Yeah. So you you just completely bonded with this cat from Ivy. Day one. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about Ivy. What's the word personality then? Well, so when I first got her, she was much younger than she ever was like, you know, advertised to be. She probably shouldn't have been separated from her mom quite yet. Yeah. Um, so I took on that motherly figure for her, really. Um, like teaching her how to eat and all those things. Like she really didn't know I could teach her how to eat. I would like scoop out the food and like put it on my finger, and she she didn't know what that was to eat hard food yet. She they totally separated her from it was it ended up being a total scam. Like, fast forward. I did all the DNA tests, and she wasn't anything that they told me she was when I got her. But we love her anyways. Um but yeah, so because it was COVID, we were together 24-7. So I would be on Zoom class, you know, doing my USD Zoom, and she would be in my pocket, just watching class with me. And so sit in your pocket. Yeah, sit in my pocket. Um and so she was, you know, from day one, just by my by my side. So you had Ivy was in your life for how many years? Six years. Oh, six years. Yeah, she turned six on the 30th of January. And I'm so sorry for this tragedy, but tell me just in in brief detail what why Ivy is no longer on the planet. So Ivy was living at my parents' house temporarily because um I moved in with your son with all the work. Who's allergic, and he is has been very graciously, you know, doing all the shots for for the allergies, and he's five shots away. So we really were about to embark on this like next chapter of our life with Ivy. Right. Um my parents' house is a very open, right? Uh dog, animal-friendly house, and there's animals always coming in and out. Right. Um, and that's just kind of how they live. And so they had a a friend bring over a rescue dog who who no one knew wasn't good with with cats, and within the span of 10 minutes, the cat, their dog went into the house and and found my cat and attacked my cat. Yeah. Um, she fought like hell. She was got to the point where like doctors were saying, you know, most cats don't even get to the surgery table to see where where we are. They told us there was a 50-50 shot. And so I felt with her power and her magic, she she deserved that 50-50 shot. Um, so we moved forward with the surgery and she made it through the surgery, made it through the first night, which is much farther than most cats would have made it. Right. Um, and I think post-surgery the problem was like her blood pressure was really low. And it just it gave her some complications. Uh uh yeah. But tell me about this moment that you were describing. I guess I was kind of struggling internally with the the dilemma of knowing when it is time to kind of say goodbye to your cat and and cut that cord to know, you know, that's the most humane thing to do for the thing you love. Right. So I was struggling with that, and I really wanted her to kind of have that choice herself. Right. So we took her off the machines and and she was breathing on her own. And so I'm holding on to her face, and I just was talking to her, and you know, her and my voice have always been very aligned. We have a very connected um way together in that way. And so I was talking to her, and all of her vitals kind of started raising. She she started improving, she started getting better. Basically barely hanging on and she hears your voice and suddenly to the point where the doctors were like, oh my god, her CO2 levels were rising, like crazy things were happening that they had told me. Just because she loves you so much. Yeah. And and it it I felt that it it was her last fight to get through this awful thing that had happened. And she really like I could feel it in my bones. She fought, fought, fought because I was there, because she knew I was there. Um and so in that way it was it was really powerful. And and I think I had hoped that she could come through and pull through that, but it became very clear to me that she couldn't, and sh she let go. And and in that letting go, I felt her telling me like I had to let go, which was a hard, hard thing to hear from from the thing that you love the most. But also they started performing CPR trying to because that's kind of like what the plan was originally. And I turned to my mom and I was like, I should tell them to stop. I should tell them to stop because I knew in my heart that she had left that she had left and she wanted to leave. Um Do you do you think when she kind of rallied, do you think it was to fight to hold on or just to have one last moment with you? It it was. I mean, she wasn't moving when I first saw her. It she was very much in a like comatose state. Um so maybe it was that. Maybe it was because she became alive. I mean, she was moving again, she was trying to get up and like fully my cat was there again. So maybe it was that that that her she was trying to have a last moment with me. I I don't know if I I know. Yeah. Maybe we'll find out. So so explain to me what what what have we embarked on today? Um well, I think I've had, you know, since this tr this huge tragedy has happened and it was so sudden and and I mean in one night the thing that was my world was gone. It devastated you. I've been watching you for the past, is it a week and a half now or something? It's been a week since yesterday. A week since yesterday. Yeah. It felt like a month. Yeah. Um and I think that's the thing. This is the first thing or first person item animal that has left me, that's been a part of my daily life. And I think the shock of of the constant re-realizing that she's gone is been the thing that is new, a new feeling to me. It's that that her being the center of my world. And then gone. And then gone. So and so what are we doing today? So today we are um I think I came to you and and to your family and just with that kind of desperation of of wanting to connect to her one last time because it was so sudden. And um, and you found someone who uh is an animal communicator who's going to hopefully help me talk to to Ivy. Connect to Ivy. Yeah. I've never done this before, so I have no idea what's gonna happen. What are you hoping for? I don't know if I'm hoping for anything necessarily because I've never done this before and because this is a new kind of world to me. Yeah. Um, I don't think I'm I think I'm trying to approach it with no expectations, but I think I I am excited to hear what Ivy has to say in a in one way or another, or just if there's anything that, you know, she didn't get to communicate to me before she left this earth. Aaron Powell I know it's an ongoing thing, but what would you say, what has Ivy taught you? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. There's been a lot of lessons. Loyalty, unconditional love, what it means to just thoroughly love someone, not w not have any kind of uh ill feelings towards them. You know, I I dropped her off at my parents' house, and that was a really hard decision for me to to know if that was the best thing for her, but she never looked at me with any kind of guilt or judgment about it. Yeah, judgment. It was just pure love. Um always greeted me at the door, still the same and and still with that same unconditional love. Yeah. I think she's also just sort of just expanded your horizon. 100%. You weren't communicating with spirits at all. No, not at all. That was what I found comfort in when this when this happened. I was ultimately drawn to to go to that world and to to find what I can feel there from her. Um and I never really felt the need to do that before. So that's been really cool. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what we uh what we discover. Totally. And uh thank you here. Give me your hand. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Yeah, this is horrific and amazing at the same time. It is. And um, let's see what happens. Thank you. Thank you. So welcome Bernadette Gavin to uh to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm really looking forward to speaking with you, Maddie. So excited. Um Bernadette, where are you right now? So I'm in New Zealand and I'm in a small surfing town called Raglan on the west coast of the North Island. Are you a surfer? Yes, I am a surfer. I'm jealous already. So, Bernadette, tell us tell us just briefly what it is that you do with respect to what we're going to be doing here with Maddie, what what how would you describe yourself? Okay, so I call myself an animal whisperer, um, which is really another name for animal communicator. And I work with um living animals and also deceased animals, but the whole process is exactly the same. And so what is your basic process when working with an animal? I I love to work in person with animals. I find that it works just as well to use a photo. And so for Ivy, Maddie sent me a beautiful photo, and I sat with that photo, and there is a way to access that being, whether they be alive or deceased. Um and so when I sit in session with an animal, I quiet myself and listen or feel with my whole body and all of my senses to what I may be feeling coming in. Or it's a little bit like I have described it before as I am stepping into the river of the essence of their being. And while I'm in there, I am just absorbing all of the information, energy, water, if you like, that is flowing through the river of them. And so I'm frantically just jotting down all of the um sensations and images or feelings or words or little short snippets, all of the senses that I'm getting, I am just jutting them down as quickly as I can. Before we start, Brenda, I just want to get clear. You you haven't spoken to Maddie before. All she's done is sent you an email and a picture, is that right? Yeah, that's right. Yes. Yeah. So so was it yesterday that you took some time and connected with Ivy? Is that when you you did the session with Ivy? Yes, I did. Yesterday I um squirreled myself away and I have already written some pages. And so with this session with Maddie, this is the point where I start to relay and read from my notes what has come through from Ivy to Maddie. I'm so eager and excited. Well, I I I think we better better get to that. So, Maddie, how are you feeling about this session right now? I'm really excited. I'm really eager. I've never really done anything like this in my life. And and this is truly, I think, the first loss I would say that's so pivotal to my life. So I think that it's a new new feeling of grief and grieving. The grieving process is is something I'm learning right now. Um, so it's been really exciting and and hopeful to look forward to something like this. Yeah, it is my sincere hope too that I have done a good enough job bringing what Ivy wants to share with you through to you so that you may be instilled with a sense of of hope and also get some respite from the grief because I really understand the grief. Thank you. Yeah, it's such a big thing. I guess I did also have one question. Yes. I thought it was very interesting that you were looking that you had to ask me for a photo of her eyes. I just kind of was curious as to why the eyes are are unlocking, you know, her presence. Isn't it interesting? I find it interesting as well. And we've all heard that saying that the eyes are the window to the soul. Totally. And you know how also um when we look at a photo of somebody, but their eyes have just been blacked out, yeah. And then we can't actually recognize them. When I've looked at the eyes of Ivy, it is a bit like a speed dial. It's like an instant kind of oh there she is, and then I start writing down things. That's a cool thing. Yeah. How's Ivy doing, by the way? Oh, Ivy is so gorgeous. It was a real honor to connect with her. Um, I can tell what kind of a relationship you you guys had and how deep it was. It's you know, I never know what's gonna come through with animals. Um I never know what's what they feel is important to talk about. Right. Sometimes it's the things we least expect. You know, totally. Um, but with her, she's obviously very connected with you and how you feel. Um, because really she wanted to talk about you a lot and how you're feeling. So um she had a very interesting perspective on what she might bring in. I'm sure I'm gonna cry a bunch, just let that happen. I'm a very emotional person. So yeah. So the first thing that your beautiful Ivy brings in clearly is that she is your princess. This is how she felt. My wifi password was princess Ivy forever. Alright. Yeah. So alright. You got the word princess from just from connecting to her and a crown on her on her collar. Oh my goodness. It's very she's a princess. I treated her like a princess. Okay, so that's the first thing she wants to tell you is yeah, she feels like a princess. And my next sentence is her sense of self is made robust because of your intense care and attention to her, Maddie. Because she came in saying to me, I am a princess because of Maddie. You know that you did a good job. I do, I do. So she gives me the sense she is so humoured by you too, Maddie. So there is a feeling that she gives me of you, which is all on and all in, and then something distracts your eye, and you're over there, and then you're back again. Yeah. And she rate she relays this in a loving way to show me how entertaining it was to be yours. So in the most loving way, she shows me that she enjoyed watching you and your funny ways as much as you watched her and hers. Does that make sense to you? Totally. And that was very much our I would say our relationship. I was always coming into the house, coming out of the house, and and she played into that too. Like she would meet me at the door, and then you know, when I was leaving, she would be crying and telling me not to leave, and so very much that dynamic. That's so beautiful. Yeah. I also hear from her that there was a lot of eye-gazing between the two of you, lots of staring into each other's eyes. Yeah. I think that's also why I thought it was so interesting that you asked for a picture of her eyes. Just because she and I, that was our kind of form of communicating together. So she is affirming that you both are competing communicating like that. Um so the next thing I've written here is yours was a very powerful and deep connection. You were not just a woman and her cat, although others have seen it this way. Ivy knows it was much more than that as much as you do. So you're both on the same page as that. You are two beings who fell into each other. She's letting me know it was love at first sight, and you have been committed ever since. And this is what she brings in. So um she also shows me great big reunions when you return to each other. Yes. Even after just a short time, like even after just leaving the room sometimes. Yeah, just totally absolutely. Yeah. We would have like a little party together. So she loves that you had this intensity with her. This is what she's bringing in. This relationship, this dynamic. She loves it. Okay, so here's a piece here. Um she is showing me it always surprised her to be on the receiving end of your unfiltered loving reactions to her presence. So your feelings about her, that she was just this beautiful being, and she was six feet tall. And you know, that feeling that you had of Ivy, and I love Ivy, she was always so surprised by that. Um basically Maddie just loved her such on such a big level, it just kind of blew her away every time. Even though it was a consistent behavior, it was still so beautiful and so surprising to Ivy. Ivy was like, Wow, I'm amazing. Totally. Yeah. I will say too, I think I've never had kids or anything like that yet in my life. And so I think her being that, I I treated her as such. And so it makes sense that she felt that presence because I think other people looked at her and was like, It's a cat. But to me, she was a human. All right, so this is so my next line is Ivy was your everything. You have loved Ivy in a way that you have loved no other. You love others, of course you do, but your love for Ivy is very different. Totally. I've never experienced that. Yeah. She knows it many. This is the coolest part of all of Ivy. Is that she she wouldn't let me know that unless she knew it. Yeah. I'm so happy she knew that. And she's not telling me because I want to know. She's telling me so that I can tell you she knows. Yeah, that's amazing. It is amazing. At this point in the session, I have written that Ivy wants me to lean into her leaving, as this is clearly devastating for you. And she lets me feel that the absolute stark shock of her absence so soon and so unexpectedly is a trauma unlike anything you have felt before. So true. And she let me feel that how you were feeling. So there is a piece in here that she added um that there is a past trauma that she whispers about that is deep also for you. That her departure is now also um triggering a little bit. Yeah. Does that make sense to you? Completely. She knew her presence for you, Maddie, was healing on a really deep level. And it was healing wounds that have been there for a long time. So in that way, Ivy felt she was very, very, very special. Yeah. So not to get too much into it, but my sister has had a a long battle of of a lot of health issues. Um and it's kind of made my my parents' attention be solely on them. And I think for me personally, having something that loves you so unconditionally and that does not, I guess that's not just um kind of a uh presence, but then like leaves and and just to love just thoroughly and and to always be there, always be um a permanent presence. Uh in that sense, she really healed me because I think for a long time, how do I say it? I think it there was a sense of feeling like I was coming second to my sister's, you know, all of her traumas and all of her health concerns and all of those things because I kind of had to be the stable, okay child. Um to have something just consistently showing up for me in that way was was magical. So yeah. Yeah. And I think that I didn't really understand what what full unconditional love was until until I knew my Ivy. And makes total sense because I could feel that it was parental um and childhood and yeah, particularly mum as well. Totally. Ivy could sense the the void and knew that that being there for you was important. Yeah. I think so. When I walked in the door, before I even got like halfway through the door, she would always be there right there when I walked in. Oh my god. I don't even know exactly what how she knew, but she would travel all the way to from the second story of my parents' house downstairs and be at the front door by the time I walked in. And I think just that alone is that feeling of of having something that will always be there to greet you at the door and always be there to show up for you and always love you and look at you with love, no matter, you know, how long it's been since you've been gone, whether it be a day, two days, a month. Um and I think that that that was the magic of our our our relationship and and truly what what I'm now missing the most, because on a spiritual level, I do know that she and I are always connected. Um, but it's that physical presence and and the the affirmations that she gave me of love. Yes. Yeah, exactly. This is my next line. This is felt as an honor for Ivy. So she felt it was an honor for her to lead that for you in particular. So she was totally up for it, she tells me, and she still is. She still is. She still is. Yeah. Okay. Um so back to her leaving, understanding why she left and how this happened. I wasn't sure if she was gonna go here because often animals um just don't really go into their passing because for them it's already happened, it's already passed. They've moved on, they want to talk about fun stuff and other stuff. Whereas for us, it's the lasting memory we have of them. So of course it's so big for us, right? Right. So I thought, okay, well, we'll we'll go here and we'll see what she wants to bring in. So I'm gonna read from my notes again, Maddie. It very much feels like the timing of Ivy's departure was not up to her. And at the same time, there is zero trauma that Ivy is presenting now. There is an acceptance to the way things have gone and a suddenness that feels like Ivy didn't really know what happened, and maybe even checked out, you know, so wasn't even aware. Totally. So it feels like an accident and that no one is to blame. Yeah. So what she next brings in is that there is a heaviness to the way in which she passed that feels like it is very much lingering. And for you, Maddie, there is a cycling of thoughts of trying to figure things out. So she lets me feel that for you who passing is simply unacceptable, and you have been in a state that is shown to me as being like um you know that old movie of Superman where he is in so much grief that he flies really fast around the earth to make time spin backwards. Yeah. I don't know if you guys remember that one. I don't know. I like that concept. In my generation, that's a famous moment. Right? He makes the world he makes time go backwards to fix something, yeah. This is how it feels for you, Maddie. That that it's just like this is if you could only do this, you would. Yeah. Okay, so she lets me feel that there is also a lot of um self-blame and a sense of if you could have just been there. So the next thing that comes is that for me, tuning in with her is a huge block to how she passed for me. And so I know that this is a extremely traumatic for you, and a situation that is unbearable for you. One that you try to hash over and at the same time block out. Yes. So, which is causing a lot of extra stress for you. Does that make sense? 100%. Yeah. So I want to say to you that Ivy presents herself in a way that shows me she has zero angst, regret, trauma, or desire to immerse you in anything other than her life and her vibrancy. Okay. This is what she's here for in this session. So she shows me the feeling of um of her being a personal booster for you. I was unclear what this actually meant, but she elaborated and it was like that she was such a light for you, and she gave you confidence. Even when the rest of the world thought you had enough, Ivy gifted you something extra that others were not even aware that you needed. Yes. Does that make sense? Totally. It's back to the same kind of point that I think I was talking about earlier. Um no, it was like no one could kind of recognize that that was a need of mine, and she was kind of the only person often it felt like that that would hear me on that. And the coolest thing, Maddie, is that she's so she so knows this. I know. That's really cool. Right? Really cool. This is the power. I always thought she did, but I didn't know. Right? Yeah. It's really cool. I just want to say that it it's fascinating, Brunadette, that you I mean, you're, I don't know, uh 10,000, 12,000 miles away. And you have picked up on the core essence of the Ivy and and Maddie relationship. This gift that Ivy was giving Maddie in this time of great need, just to feel loved unconditionally and to feel worthy of the love. Totally. That seems to be the main message that you're communicating. And it's sort of the core of the relationship. Totally. And it's what I've been grieving the most in the past week. Yeah. My next line is it is hard to define, but the things that come up to describe what Ivy gifted you is meaning, it is maternal, it is friendship, it is trust with a capital T. It is fun and playful. Yeah. Totally. All of those things. She's so clever. She really is. And actually, my next line is Ivy is a queen. I love that. She's graduated from princess to queen. Yes. Right? Totally. That's what I thought. Um your peace and mental shift from her passing to her living and her presence with you now in another form is what she is most interested in now. So there is a gentle expectancy with Ivy, awaiting for you to catch up. Yeah. So Ivy is at peace with the new quality of your relationship. And with a gentle expectancy, I love the way you said that. Yeah. She is awaiting for Maddie to to join her in that place of peaceful acceptance. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. She's like, girl, okay. Yeah. Exactly. But Bernard, that there's a there's a sense that the relationship does continue. Yes, the relationship does continue. Grief is necessary, yeah, and appropriate even. And there's no expiry date on one's personal grief. And so from me to you, I'm saying, you know, be gentle with yourself. But Ivy's telling me to speed it up a little. As she would. Like get on with it. Totally. I mean, she would, yeah. Because I also when every time I was sad, crying, if I kind of was sad for too long, she'd be like, over it and kind of come on, mom, we're moving on. We're gonna go play now, and that kind of that kind of vibe. So I in the back of my head, I think I've known that the past week that you know, yeah, she wouldn't she wouldn't want this. Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. Okay, so the next thing she is hoping you will forgive her for leaving, as this was as much of a surprise to her as it was to you. I know. In my experience, animals have this kind of um much easier capacity to accept passing, their passing, as they don't have the baggage that comes with death, as we humans tend to have. In your experience, Bernadette, when Maddie passes, which hopefully will be never is there a moment of reunion where these two connect? Can you just imagine it? I would love it. I would love it. I've already seen what your reunions have been like, you know, while she was in the physical, she showed it boisterous. It's yeah, it's a celebration. Totally. That's gonna be a big one. Everyone's I love that. Yes. Okay, so on the topic here of her passing, it was sooner than expected for the both of you, but it is very much about the quality for Ivy and not about the quantity. She feels so very full and that she reached a peak with you. And now, although it's different, and I agree, it can take such an effort to adjust, um, she's very much willing and able to continue the relationship with you. Okay. So sh these are her instructions. Okay. I love it. So she had instructions. Yeah, specific for Maddie. I just she's a very bossy cat, so I love that she's leaving me with instructions. Okay, so this will take an intentional slowing down for you, which she tells me, not without a bit of humor, will actually be beneficial for you. It's hilarious. So processing the grief will require Maddie to just sort of slow down and be with it or well, yes, processing the grief happens as a byproduct, but she's Ivy is specifically talking about how to kind of um feel connection. Yeah, feel like the relationship is continuing. Oh, she knows that that's not easy for me to do. Yeah. I see, okay. So it takes a settling, yeah, a trust and belief in yourself, and a different kind of listening. In this way, you will begin to sense flickerings of her presence rather than just feeling only her absence. Okay. Yeah. And this place of absence and presence is such a fine line. We can be so close to feeling presence, we can actually feel presence and then just go, oh my gosh, they're not here, and suddenly we are downward spiraling. And grief is such a heavy emotion that it can really um block everything out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So for you specifically, she brings in that for you in sleep, when there is the least distraction, this will be a great place for you to to interface. I dreamt about her last night. No way. Yeah. Did you? Fully. Okay. I knew this would happen. It's crazy. What what what just in a brief what was it? I will say I think my dream last night was a little bit rooted in the accident, but it it we got we got through that, and and I did see her then back to her normal life. So it started off being, you know, wrapped wrapped in the accident, but she was able to kind of get me through that last night in my sleep. And you had a connection with her. And I was holding her. This is how it works. We did the session yesterday. So interesting. When did you have the dream? Last night. And and then she talks about it today. So there's no time. It's all just circular. That's so cool. Yeah. When you say she talks about it today, are you getting messages today or you're just taking the messages from yesterday and sharing them today? Yeah, yeah. It's quite a um complicated choreograph that spirit can do. It's very nonlinear and interesting. Yeah, very nonlinear. And it often happens where I will say something that has just happened and it comes through the next day, you know, because there's time different. It's just really interesting. Yeah. Um, so back to the dream, which is super cool, Maddie. Yeah. Um, so this may be as little as a second or two of seeing her, yeah, but it will be so clearly her that it will feel like enough. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And she wants you to know, Maddie, that dreaming can only happen when one sleeps. I don't sleep well. Yes, I have a really hard time sleeping often, and I'm often up in the middle of the night, and and she knows that better than anyone. Okay. All right. So she wants me to sleep. She does. She does want you to sleep. Okay. So Ivy shows me the feeling that she really grounded you. That she is your medicine and she knows it. I say that all the time. You say what all the time? That she's my medicine. Is that a phrase? Phrase to all of her the past week that I've been saying all the time. Oh my god. That like she was my medicine, she was my healing, she was and and I felt that for her in a sense, too. And she knew that. She knew that. I mean, my job is to write everything that I get. So cool. Even if it sounds really strange, I still have to write it down. So cool. So cool. You're very good at your job. Yes. Okay. She also lets me feel that you talked a lot to her. So interesting. She's the most talkative cat in the entire world. People would tell me, like, it's unreal how much she would talk to me. I mean, we would have full-on conversations and she would respond back and meowing. Oh, wow. Um, when I came home, walked in the door, just meowing right away. I think some people would find it kind of almost annoying how much she would talk. She's bringing this in just to let me know, really, um, that this is also something that you are missing. Yeah. This lack of conversation with her feels starkly different for you. Yeah. So she's aware of the silence, I guess, that is now there for you. Totally. Yeah. She's aware of how you're feeling still. Otherwise, she just wouldn't let me know. I love that. And she's again inviting a pivot for you to imagine you are turning a page from the trauma of her leading to another where there is the idea and the possibility of her still being around and available to you. She's really inviting the next chapter. Yeah. Mm-hmm. This is really cute, but she lets me feel in the most loving way that she tolerated your way of playing with her. That's hilarious. I can only imagine what she meant by that. I had every toy in the world for her. She probably thought it was so annoying. Um, so this isn't maybe an abstract piece because I can't imagine any cat letting anybody do this, but um, she lets me feel you stroking lightly outwards her whiskers. Is this a thing that you did? No, she was known to have the most beautiful whiskers ever. She didn't it wouldn't be that she wouldn't let me do that because she would she was like a rag doll. Like she would just let me do anything to her. Um, I don't think I necessarily did that to her just out of instinct. Okay, I just want to interrupt the podcast for one second because you're having this incredible session with Bernadette, and she's mentioning so many things that are so accurate about Ivy, the uh the princess thing and how she was your medicine. Yeah, and then sleeping in it was nuts really crazy. And Bernadette says this thing about whiskers, and you, in the most polite way ever, kind of go, well, that doesn't really make that much sense. Yeah, I I think I walked away kind of confused by it. And when I got home, I was just looking at my phone and my videos, and I have so many videos of me just smushing Ivy's face because that was everything to me. It was just the smudched. But to you, it was smushing your face. But to Ivy, it was playing with her whiskers. That's a cat's most sensitive feature. So it makes sense whiskers and communicating that to Bernadette. And what I what I loved is Bernadette doesn't back down. She didn't let it go. From her point of view, it's like I had a conversation with Ivy. Ivy said whiskers, and that's that's what happened. Let's go back to the podcast and see how Bernadette holds her ground. Um yeah, that's right. And there's something specific about her whiskers for her to bring that through. Yeah. So my last uh paragraph here is that she feels so loved by you. She feels so loved by you, Maddie. Um she assures you any thoughts of no one and nothing without her are absolutely unnecessary. Okay. Does this make sense to you? Yeah. Yeah. I wait, I didn't get it. No one and nothing without her. Um just because I think it it has been such a big loss that like I don't really know how to move on. I I don't really know how who you are without Ivy. And and also like the fact that I I know I will never have a cat like her again, and and all of those kind of feelings. And and Ivy is saying what to that? That that's not those those thoughts are just they don't belong here, they don't belong in your story. Okay. Yeah. Yes, you are you are everything. You are amazing. Basically, that's what she's saying. Anxiety. So she sends the feeling that she remains yours and together forever. This is still this is still a thing for her. This is still a thing for her. It might be a concept for you at the moment, it might be just a a seed of of hope that that might be true. And for Ivy, it's like there is no separation. Yeah. So her last impression that she gives me before yesterday when I gently closed the session is the closeness of your faces together and the wonderful intimacy and connection that you shared together. Does that make sense? She passed with my face right next to her. And that was it. This is what she's speaking about. Yeah. She's aware of this. This is a piece that is really important. Yeah. She is very aware of that. You were with her. Even after she passed, there is a time, even when she has already gone, yeah, she was there. She's aware. That was amazing. Yeah, this is really important for you to know that she was aware of that. And her last sentence is you are so not alone in this. I love that. It's really, really meaningful. Yeah. More tissue or more tissue. Yes. Do people cry in New Zealand? They're a little bit. We're an emotional bunch. Oh, okay. Ditto. Thank you so much. That was amazing. Like from start to finish, you hit hit it all. And I think it's easy to kind of feel like maybe it's not true, maybe we don't have this connection. So it's really reassuring to hear you validating for her, you know, what she couldn't tell me exactly. Or has been telling me that it's a little bit more than a sort of her. Yeah, it was so intense and so unique and so deep and so beautiful that Ivy was able to explain it to me. Yeah. In the same way we would talk about it together because we because we did talk about it. Uh Bernadette, I just want to say, as an outside observer, it was so clear and so evident that you had a communication with Ivy that was very valuable to Maddie. Essential to my healing, too, I would say. I mean, I think that this has been a huge piece that I I've needed to kind of hear and understand in order to kind of move forward. And like you said, turn that next next page. I know how much Maddie has been suffering, and I can just feel sitting here next to you how healing her. Yeah, the healing power is. Well, Jay, thank you for inviting me on. And Medi, thank you so much for allowing me a little snippet of the life that you shared with your beautiful Ivy because I feel very privileged. I'm so glad you got to meet her. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you got to meet her too. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. My friend You cause me at my end. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Realization Lab on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.