Rogue MF interview

Live and uncut, Sight Zilla interviews the infamous Rogue from MF crew—a very enlightening and inspiring interview. Rogue is not your average graffiti artist.

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yo, so I'm right here with Rogue from MF. I'm pretty sure y'all seen him around the city. He does his thing. I see him up all the time. I think he puts in work. I love his style. I love his heart and I love his approach to the game. And I got him right here. And um, you know, just meet Rogue. I mean like how long you been doing graffiti, man?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Um I started writing graffiti in uh 2010, so I think it's been uh 15 or some 16 years now. Uh I started yeah, I started painting in 2010. So it's been a cool amount of time already.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Okay. So like who who inspires you with graffiti? Who who were your your heroes when you first started graffiti back in 2010?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Um honestly I didn't really have like too many too many like people of that nature that that I I feel and I I feel like because I was so oblivious to like graffiti, I didn't have anyone that was like an older brother or a family member or even like friends that I was friends with like in high school or something, or anyone who really wrote, like uh I got honestly I got into graffiti through um like street art. Like a lot of like uh the first like you know the initial like documentaries that some people have created like for like graffiti or like stuff uh like stuff of that nature, like art on the street. And I mean man, a lot of the a lot of the initial stuff I was exposed to was like Obey and uh like Banksy, you know, like also too like they had like a political like stance to like their stuff at a you know I think in the prime of like what they were doing and that stuff kind of like I think it influenced me it influenced me initially to like then further my way into uh into writing. Like um I mean I got into riding through like punk music, you know, like I uh I'll um like either bice like bicycling, like biking to hardcore shows, like biking to punk shows, like and then here and there like I will see like you know maybe people with stickers on their bike or people mobbing like in the show or to and from like but I never really um like had anyone that I knew or anything of that nature and then um but I I kind of was uh always surrounded by it and and to a certain extent also like it's just a very rebellious thing in nature, you know, and that's always kind of like been my thing, like my stance, like why I write, like why I like what what influences me, like especially earlier on when I first started painting, you know, like I like punk subculture, like underground subculture in general, like I just uh was very fond of it and I wanted to indulge in it and dive dive into it to like also like I had spent a lot of like years um like in my early 20s and stuff, like staying in the streets, staying on the trains, staying in the bus, like public transit, like or on the move, or I would have like homegirls that like out they'll let me crash there and shower and recharge myself like a night or two, you know, or people I've dated like throughout the years also. I mean kind of like just sharking around, like uh trying to find ways to get by, survive, like stealing, selling shit, like keeping like minimum money in my pocket just to get by, like I mean a lot of a lot of like it's all tied together, like um like punk subculture, like squatting, like getting by with bare minimum, not needing like material things or not truly like having like a sentimental attachment to like worldly stuff, you know, and so like what do you what do you think about the culture of graffiti right now, like from when you started to where it's at now?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Like, do you think it's like getting the game's getting better or the game's getting worse?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

I don't know, like graffiti uh overall is very subjective, you know, like it's just about I mean to one person it's one thing, to another it's another, but like one thing I will say, and I I feel like it's a fair thing to say, is that like graffiti culture, especially from what I observe in Los Angeles, is very like ego-driven, like very like you know, a lot of politics involved. I mean, I guess shit, that's in a way LA culture in general, it's not even just like graffiti, like jail, the streets, like you know, there people like to have like an organization and a hierarchy to shit, you know. Um but like shit, I don't know, like sometimes I that's where my conflict is, like that's where a lot of conflict uh starts off for me, like when it comes to graffiti too. Like, uh could have sworn like it's supposed to be something that people oh like I don't have to, or like this is my way of escaping all the like social structures that I may not necessarily want to live by, you know what I mean? And like like I mean that's why I paint, you know, like I paint to feel like a like I'm an individual or like at least that I have my own way of thinking that you know like I am necessarily not gonna be afraid to challenge certain shit. Like if I feel like it's within I mean you know we all have different morals and we all think differently about things, but I just sometimes I don't know, like I feel I've met a lot of people and written with a lot of people, and I feel like a lot of people are very like uh follow the leader sometimes, you know, like people are very follow the leader, like people are I've seen and met people who go and fight war over shit that they don't know what what are they even doing or who or or what is the like back background of I don't know like people do a lot of like acting without questioning, you know? Yeah, and I guess like maybe that's like a respectable soldier mentality you could say or view it that way, but at the same time it's kind of like it's a lot of cookie cutter shit too, like people just like want to go and paint the same spots over again, like or it's just like or for the and then it ties into like the picture and the Instagram and like social media and then like painting an illusion. Some well not everybody, you know, like but like a lot of people were I don't know, I just feel like uh social media has such a huge influence on graffiti now, like yeah, and because of that, like people are it just looks one way, you know, and like because I meet a lot of I when I leave like I don't always travel outside of California, but like when I do go to other places and I speak to people or meet other writers, they just have this depiction of LA graffiti that it's a certain way and it's a certain group of people, and I mean a lot of those Instagram like document documentative entities are like also sometimes influenced to like some you know, I mean I don't know, it's it's all like uh it's all based on people's like preference and maybe what's considered to the lack of a better term cool or not, you know, or accepted, respected or not, and what that even potentially might mean.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Like so like I heard I heard a lot about you on the streets not the best stories, but it reminds me of like when I was out when I first started doing graffiti, like I heard a lot of stories about me, and one of the best stories. So, I mean like a lot of people hear these stories, but they don't really know who you really are. So, like, what are some of the things that you have heard that people have said that's not really true that you wanna like that you wanna like that you wanna um you know set the record on like that's not true that you're not that person.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Well I mean I don't know like back when I think not to go back and forth, but I would like me need an example, like I don't know. I I've heard a lot, I mean yeah I guess I've heard a lot of things about me, but I mean you know I'm a pretty fair guy, like some of that stuff is some of the stuff is true, you know, like and some of the stuff or people aren't wrong, or like I don't know, I also too like people want to think a certain way and everything's tile to their opinion, like I don't know, like I'm trying to like I'm trying to be uh I'm not trying to be so nitpick about it or be too b too specific, but yeah I think that like I think a lot I think it all boils down to a lot of people don't know me, you know? Like and what it is is like it's because I don't check in to any like higher you know like I don't have like a like a older homie that like can that vouches for me or I fall I fall under his wing and so it's you know people just base me off of like somebody else or little homie big homie stuff like they love that shit out here, you know, like and I don't really have anything like that and people don't really know me and the certain the some the uh certain something about people that I've learned is like when people don't understand something like they don't they will they will sometimes lean towards like not liking it than like uh liking it or wanting to fuck with it, you know. I mean who wants to feel like they don't understand or are not in on in on it, you know, like that like I think that in on it mentality of like oh I know, I know, like I can, you know, talk about who he is. I have an idea. Like, I mean there is a lot of people who are able to like speak up on me, know me on a personal level, you know, and I mean too like I'm a product of I'm a product of everything I've experienced in my life, you know, like and to be honest, like the majority of that shit is like not positive, like it's not fucking healthy, like it's not fucking um you know what Disney Channel told you like uh life will be like when you enter into this world. Like I've spent a lot of years like either in jail or in the streets, like and both those things like also affect a person, like um substance use affects a person, like PTSD trauma stuff you go through, like all that stuff starts to shape a person. Like the people you start like when you start to be out in the street all the time, like in survival mode, like you know, you're running off of raw animal instinct, like a lot of the time, like your senses are heightened, like you're coming around by yourself sometimes, painting, like you don't know who is who, like you know, or you're going and especially like out here, you're passing through like what other people sometimes consider to be their like territory, you know, or place where they're from, they're familiar with, they have say so over and you don't like and like also too like I mean a lot of it is criminal shit. Like a lot of the people, a lot of a lot of my closest, like a lot of my closest friends and associates like I've met through graffiti, like they're criminals, like you know, like some not everyone is just has a job and clocks in, clocks out, and this contributing member of society kind of shit, you know, like a lot of people are trying to get by the easy way, like fast money, like fast people, like being especially like being like unhoused out in the street, like it's cutthroat, like people are um on drugs, you know, like drugs also start to like change like over time, like the way a a a person starts to behave, you know, like being outside all the time, like sleep deprivation, like not eating, not resting, like always in this heightened state, like turns you fucking ugly as fuck, you know. Like a lot of this shit is ugly as fuck as it is. Like, I mean I come from broken home, you know, like I come from a lot of like other like shit I've gone through as an adult in the street too. Like, that stuff doesn't make you a better person a lot of the time. Like, I know like a lot of people when it comes to like talking about stuff like this, they like to talk about how like the streets like shaped me and made me like this, you know, harder or better or like more successful person. Like a lot of the time that is the case, but like a lot of the time too, like that shit chews you up and it spits you out. Like, you know, I mean what I'll I guess what I'll say is like you know, like a lot of people don't know me to be honest with you. Like, and that's not sometimes other people's fault. Like, I mean I'm introverted, like antisocial, like I have certain other like uh things about me that like don't I don't want to go and maybe necessarily meet everyone and be friendly with everyone, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Like I mean the stuff I heard the stuff I heard was pretty ratchet, but I mean that's other people's opinions and stuff, but like when I heard about it, I was like, I'd rather meet him myself and get to know his own story before judging him.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

My name is good, like in the streets, like in terms of like I haven't like ever like told on nobody, like I'm not part of no weirdo funny shit.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Like, no, no, I haven't heard nothing, nothing like that. What I heard is like you know, you real attractive guy and get all the ladies, you know what I'm saying? So I mean shit, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

I I usually come one thing I'll say is like anyone that anyone that thinks it's a good idea probably to mess around with me, there they might not be like in the best uh in the best place themselves, you know. Like I come across a lot of broken people to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, I just heard like you know, I just heard like what's that Tupac song I get around? Nah, I just heard like different baby different baby moms you've had and and then I hear their stories. Oh, okay, I mean but I don't hear your stories, you know what I'm saying? Uh-huh. And I know it, you know, it's it's common to hear one side, you know, hear one side and everybody think that's the whole truth, but I don't think I think to get the whole truth you gotta get both sides.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

I mean, I don't know. I I've I've heard some of the stuff my baby mamas have to say, like they're probably not wrong. I mean, my I'm not like the master of healthy relationships. I mean, takes two to tango also, like I mean I'm not the like you know, like hey, if I'm if my hands are dirty, best believe I'm not the only one, you know. Like, yeah. But I mean, no, I don't even to be honest, I don't even say that like in like a in a proud way, you know. Like at the end of the day, they're also the mother of my children. Like, you know, I also have a certain level of like love and respect for them too that. But you know, sometimes people straight up like people don't get along, relationships don't last. Like, yeah, sometimes people who don't know each other come across each other and start to like become involved in a certain situation, you know, that they're neither ready for. But I mean you know that's like kind of more like my personal, my personal outside of craft, like my life, but so like I mean so like how long how long do you plan on doing graffiti?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Is it a for a life thing? Is it something that you're gonna do for another 15 years?

SPEAKER_02 15:37

One thing I always told everybody, and this was very early on when I started to write, because like as you start to get up and no one's heard of you and you start to establish your name, you know, in the in this like subculture, like people are always like giving you props, right? Like that's the it uh it's always revolved around like props, like oh what, that's what's up, fool, I see you up, or oh what, like I've da-da-da, this, that, you know, and people are just so quick to like praise it. And I just tell everybody like bro, if you see me still writing in the fucking street, know that I'm fucking most likely like on some like dark, ugly shit going through it, you know. Like, I don't go and paint when I feel fucking like happy or oh what, like today's a good day, I'ma go, I'ma go fuck it off and go paint, you know. Like when I'm writing, it's like the dark some of the darker times of my life, like sometimes under the influence, like sometimes like anger, sadness, like going through like all the cycle of range of negative emotions, like and you know, like I use it as a therap a form of therapy, like I'm not here to like even like how you like uh said earlier about like the rumors, and it's like to be real with you, like, and I don't say this to like try to sound like oh I'm better than or I think I'm somebody, but it's just like I'm not here to fucking make anybody happy through what the fuck I do. I'm not here to like please anybody when it comes to when I go out and write, like other things, being a parent or being a partner or being a family member, being a good friend, you know, being a member of a community, that's like one thing, but like when I go and write, like I'm not there to like make anybody happy, you know. Like I'm doing it as a form of therapy, I'm doing it as a form to like express myself. Like when I myself feel misunderstood, I write to like understand myself better, you know, to take sometimes it's like my way of looking inside, like seeing what the fuck you're made of, like, or seeing what the fuck do you how far are you willing to go and how much do you have to you? Like how many times are you gonna get yourself, scrape yourself off the ground and dust yourself off and keep trudging, you know? Like sometimes like life fills us with doubt and we need reassurance, and that's like my way to reassure me, like sometimes, you know, and other times is just like a form a form of me to like kind of squeeze out some of the negativity, you know, and so I mean with that being said, like in terms of a plan I have or like a contract I signed for how many years I'm supposed to be writing, I mean I don't know. Like I a part of it is like competitive and a part of it is like has this like allure to it of like you know continuing to go and adding it's like a number tally like kind of scoreboard sort of shit, like but I mean I don't know. I feel like I find myself writing more out of emotion than I find myself writing to like claim claim something off of it, you know. Like I realized a long time ago I'm not gonna get anything positive from like directly a graffiti, like riding illegally in the street, it's not gonna really bring me much positive, especially the way I do it. Like maybe through other channels we access, you know, we discover uh expand our creativity, we explore other things, you know, and make it in those ways, but graph was never gonna be the way I fed my family, you know. Like graph was always gonna be the way that I fucking show everybody my middle finger, you know, and like sometimes like remind everybody that it's not all of us are gonna go along with the flow of the river, you know, like some of us are against against the grain and against the structure, against the against certain shit organized certain way, or we don't agree with it or even feel like it's necessary in a world like this. So, I mean I'ma continue to write, like uh until hopefully one day I don't have to. Realistically, I think that's the answer.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Like so MF crew, yeah. How long that's been around, who started it, okay, who's the heads, like I I I I see you hit it up, but I don't know much about the history of it.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

MF is uh MF was created by uh Ryan69. Uh he's been from some crews, I think, uh, throughout his graffiti, his in his uh respective graffiti career, but one day uh he just had told me he had said, hey, I want to start a crew. Uh you know, he he's seen a lot of ambition in me and he fucked with me early on in the time. I didn't understand any of it then. I was just like going at uh picking up game as I go, but I mean I I think kind of reflecting back like or looking back at it now, like Ryan had some understanding of the scene, like he had uh, you know, some understanding of being a bomber, and uh he seen a lot of ambition in me, and I think it reminded, he told me a lot of a lot of times, like it reminded him of himself, and because of that he had this drive to like want to go right with me, you know. Another thing too, like as an individual I never try to be like dead weight, you know, like I always try to carry my own and in all aspects that I can. And uh when he had told me he wanted to create a crew and he wanted it to be MF, he based it off of MF Doom, really, his love for MF Doom. Yeah, he fucked with MF Doom or does too to this day, I'm sure. Fucks with MF Doom tough. And that was like his initial inspiration. I mean, you know, stuff doesn't just stay like one uh reason why things continue to linger around in the air, you know, but I mean originally it uh it was him, uh it was just me and him. We recruited maybe two other people. Um it was kind of just always me and him. I mean at this point the crew has gone through uh waves of different members. Uh that's just that's just life, you know, life works like that, people come and go. Also, uh I'm probably difficult, I'm probably a a tough pill to swallow sometimes, and I'm a difficult person to follow, also. So, I mean, whatever. That also over time weans people out, you know. But uh MF, like I he I would consider him the main head uh of the crew. Uh but really we don't have that kind of uh like uh we don't really have that kind of a vibe to our crew like everyone that I have in MMA's like I allow them all to and it's not even I allow like it's up to me or they you know but you know like I allow everyone to be individual and when I what what I what I mean by that when I say it is I don't try to influence them or steer traffic for them like if you want to paint like that paint like that you know continue to paint like that and see where where you go with it you know a lot of another another like kind of follow the leader sheep mentality kind of graffiti thing that I see a lot is like people try to like recruit a bunch of young writers and they force them to paint this certain way okay I'm your big homie you're gonna think like this you're gonna like worship me and everything I say goes don't question any of it and you have to paint like this now and this is what's considered good or right wrong that stuff is just so like I don't I don't I I don't I personally don't think that's what this was for at least not for me and I don't go about it that way. And I feel like my crew is an opportunity for people to like be outcast be exile be reject be like a misfit from it all or to like be an individual like be who you are how you want to be and I don't like really question a lot of stuff. I mean there are certain rules we stick to you know like street codes certain stuff you know like where the line gets drawn but I mean the past that like I feel like MF is just like it's a crew for it's a crew of individuals you know and unique like minded people like a lot of the homies are you know rockers some uh kids from the hood like I mean we have a variety of people in the in the crew you know it's a lot of different a lot of different people but I think that's what's tight about it like you know it's not just any one thing or it's not like this uh brainwashing you know kind of thing where you have to be a certain way or believe even a certain set of things like it's an opportunity for people to be themselves. I feel like that's what what's powerful about graffiti you know like you get to kind of like discover and make yourself a who how you are what you believe and I feel like your crew should represent should like reflect that too like you know also friendship like people are actually like friends you know like people actually like care for each other like have each other's back like and uh we'll we'll not leave each other behind or see each other fall or fall too far like sometimes you know and like I feel like that that should be like something too people have a focus on you know like or it should be something that matters you know allowing your allowing your friends to like be who they are you know without judgment and also allowing people to like you know find their own set of things that they follow or want to like be a part of and what that all looks like as a crew like I mean some of my crewmates are some of the best like criminals I've met you know we go I mean you know boosting racking like coming up on stuff like getting your materials like and also it's a team you know so like the whole main head thing it's like there's no main head like all of us contribute evenly to the cause you know and our or to our crew and we all fucking put forth whatever skills we have available and we piece it all together and that's what makes it work and that's what makes it like that's what makes it what it is you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

So what what's when you're out when you're out painting man like what's your tip of choice it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Um to be honest I will use whatever the can has on it whatever it comes with or whatever fits on it or works but over the years like out of all the stuff I've experimented with like a good fat cap to fill and a high pressure tip to outline you know okay but like lately to be honest like my weapons of choice is like a like a roller a roller sponge and a bucket of paint and uh like sometimes like just some anything to anything that will mark like a lot of the time don't use spray paint like using like rubber late like latex materials like other other materials that will still like you know still show or work or leave leave still a you know some sort of a like a color to differentiate you know to be able to bomb but I mean yeah a lot of the time I I lately I've switched over from like using spray paint to just using roller like it's a lot more low key you know like there's a psychology to graffiti too like I feel like people they see the spray can't come out and they see the like the fast like harsh movement and then like they're like oh fuck graffiti like he uh you know then call the cops or stop them or you know get him and I think it's just because like that at this point it dro it brings that like psychologically out of people and I just feel like the times I've had like a roller sponge and it's the middle of the day and I'm just here like the motion is so different it's a lot more calming people respond to it a lot better like like they see you kind of like just buffing something out with roller paint and then it's like oh he's cleaning up the community or it's like it's just perceived as less harsh and then that just leaves like the 20 seconds I need to outline my shit and get the fuck out of there hit up the cruise and I'm gone. So I mean the window the window of me getting caught like I feel like it's is less in two with that like if I'm buffing out with roller I'm practically invisible you know and then I just need about 10 seconds to outline my shit sometimes and I'm out of there you know so and I think that's what it's it's important too efficiency. You know I mean at the end of the day it's a prime you don't want to get caught you don't want to get caught slipping like by other people like so you're trying to be in and out.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

So who's who's on your on your graffiti mount rushmore?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Graffiti Mount Rushmore? Yeah okay okay uh I mean it's so my my what I have to say is so biased you know but it's all good then let me then I guess like I mean because I have my circle of friends right like those are the people I select from like when I go out in the night I'm like alright I'm gonna choose like two three of the homies like who do I pick? That's fine. And so like that's like kind of like my graffiti route Mount Rushmore that's like accessible to me you know but I mean I guess I also I know what you kind of mean like is there other writers maybe that no I mean like I mean like my hom my homie Pada like I I paint a lot with him like and uh me and him we were good together like we're a good team like our styles are different like us as individuals different upbringing different like who we are like or like how we grew up and certain um of those like characteristic things are different but like we complement each other I think like you know there's something about how he writes and how I write like it works out good together also like how he is as a person and how I am we bring a balance to each other like I mean my homie Steam like also too like he's a good example of somebody that I have that like I trust him like I trust him to have my back you know like that's an important thing and I've learned that over time like through trial and error when like well some of the bad stories I have or things don't go how you want or hope you know like how people sometimes like hightail it on you last minute switch up on you turn their back on you backstab you like that should exist too but I mean you know those are I mean my my my homies like I I see them as like my yeah like the like that idol like people idolizing other people like I don't think it should be that way you know like you should like you shouldn't look up to anyone like because like that's like that shit like that I it's just so funny to me like someone will have a tag and they won't go over it like um but it's just so backwards because then some of these big crews come and do their crew over you or do a throw up over your shit or fuck you oh so it's fuck me right when it's you but when it's you it's not supposed to be that way like I also don't agree with that like and I'm here 100% all the time to challenge that shit like not not everyone is just gonna get this like demanded respect without question you know like and I've met some I've met some of these people too and like I mean I don't know if there if people have something to say about me like well then you know I'm not I mean you gotta be yourself man you gotta be yourself.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah uh you gotta be fiercely authentic because if you're not being yourself and you're being someone else then what's the point of live what's the point of living? Yeah yeah you know yeah so I mean like yeah my my my circle of friends are like the people I look up to you know they're the people who keep me sharp like that's what your friends should be to you you know like they encourage you they motivate you they keep you on point like or or if you aren't on point then they pick up where you fall short like like they are the right or left hand that you need at times you know and that's a that's a very necessary and real thing in graffiti you know like you're not gonna see that a lot in a lot of these graffiti crews but every like every every graffiti crew is different though so it's like some are structured like you're in the military some are structured like it's a frat party some are structured where it's like it's it's fun you know and some and some structure it is like a fucking uh boys and girls club so it's like you know every crew's different um smug I talked to smug about you smug had a lot of great things to say about you he's a cool dude likewise likewise yeah smug smug is uh because I you know I heard the stories and then I was like smug have you heard this dude rogue and he just said all nothing but good stuff about you so I was like alright I gotta I wanna talk this dude and get his story I don't want to hear whatever this shit I don't want to hear the streets what the streets got to say because the streets are biased yeah and I don't know what they're basing their opinions off of based upon who they're associated with or uh base are some kind of ism that uh navigates or controls their life.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah so that being said I'm gonna wrap this up but is there anybody out there that you want to give a shout out to before we end this um I just want to shout out some of my homies who like I don't any longer have around you know like I've seen a lot of graffiti I've seen a lot of like of the ugly side of graffiti I'm familiar with a lot of the ugly dark stuff that goes on in graffiti sometimes that shit consumes us and takes us to a place we don't come back from you know and uh so shout out to like my homie Buser like shout out to the homie form too um shout out to homie Nori Sarak and uh shout out to the homie tofu you know like I I mean uh you said abuser abuser abuser abuser form form yeah form uh he was a wonder form one I know that you know there's probably a lot of people who have taken on that name but yeah it was form formy one the homie Nori uh the homie Sarak uh from MGP and uh the homie tofu from uh AG and KWS okay yeah alright man yeah is anything else you want to add before we end this interview man uh just always be yourself you know and don't be afraid to question shit like if it's something you don't agree with you don't gotta agree with it you know especially in graffiti like that shit was meant for us to like be individuals through it and to like discover our I feel like our true self through it too you know it's a journey but I mean you know just don't I feel like people shouldn't ever like lose sight of that like don't let that become something tainted like on your part you know man yeah alright man that's you know thank you for the interview yeah first I'm gonna try to edit this hopefully the sound wasn't too loud out there in the streets we out here in the streets we're here right front of Joe's pizza sixth of spring getting it down getting it in and uh so all you guys out there keep it keep it real and keep it true and stay true to yourself.