Duce GAW TNT RTN interview

Sight Zilla interviews the one and only Duce. The West Coast legend gives us wisdom and talks about graffiti from his perspective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:03

I'm right here with the famous or infamous Deuce. Um JW. Needs no introduction. If you know, you know. Um I mean, in these in these days, in these times, Deuce, who are you right now, man? What are you into? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:32

I mean, currently I probably describe myself as being stuck in a rut. You know, I'm tired of the rat race. I've always been pretty independent. I still am independent. I'm a family man, I'm still an artist. Uh a seeker. I've always been a seeker. I've I've always sought after knowledge. I sought after experiences, I sought after um just life in general. So in this current moment I'm still living and trying to find exactly what my cause is. What was I saying? Yeah, I'm just living life, man. I'm just trying to uh trying to find more time to to uh develop my artistic um abilities. I I wish I could paint more. I'm trying to paint more. Um unfortunately other responsibilities take up my time.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Otherwise, I would paint every day.

SPEAKER_06 1:42

You know, I just we're talking about legals, illegals.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Legals, illegals, it doesn't matter. It's just uh responsibility is probably the one thing that holds me back.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

And because I am loyal to those who I love, I don't foresee myself risking my freedom for my own selfish game.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You think it'll it'll be more more likely to happen later on in the years?

SPEAKER_02 2:12

I don't know. I don't know when it would happen or if it would happen. I definitely the painting side, the painting side as an artist would happen. Um the more rebellious, like I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

Yeah. So if I hit you up, maybe not. I've hit you up, like, hey dudes, pick you up, man. We drop some throaties, only take like two minutes. I only have have you out the house like 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I gotta say, I'm good at saying that. Cause I only move at the beat of my own of my own drum. Yeah. I do like I've never been like a type of person that can be coerced or motivated and hyped by their peers. Like I've never painted because my peer came by and was like, yo, let's paint.

SPEAKER_05 2:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Like it was always my idea. And whenever I've made that deal with myself to take a risk, I am also accepting the consequences at that very moment.

SPEAKER_07 3:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Like I can go out tonight and paint and not come back.

SPEAKER_07 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Because as you know, you're aware of the dangers that exist.

SPEAKER_07 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

It's not just about catching a spot, but all of the other little dots that are gonna connect during that time frame.

SPEAKER_07 3:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

You don't know, you might have just missed your your like death by like this much. Yeah. And and um so because I'm aware of the risk, the risk versus reward right now, it's not worth it for me. Like for me now to come back and not see my kid grow up, it's not worth it for me. For me to come back or get arrested and then have my wife chew my ear off, yeah, it's not worth it for me.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

For me to like get arrested and not be able to like put food on the table, open my business, you know, or do any kind of moves to make money, it's not worth it for me.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

Um, I was hanging out with Gaso, and I had him come out and speak at the event, right? And he was saying how how like graffiti ruined his life. Like he says, like, I talked positive about it, but he's like, graffiti ruined my life. And I don't know if he was joking or being serious about it though, but like, if your son or your or a family member or someone close to you wanted to get into graffiti, would you say yes or no? I know you say you say no first, but yeah, I wouldn't encourage it.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah. But at the same time, it's like we have to take responsibility for our own actions and whatever choices we made, we ruined our own lives. It wasn't like the act or the substance or whatever you chose to like get into, it was your choice.

SPEAKER_06 5:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

So, you know, I can't speak for that individual, but I can say that I take responsibility for my own self-determination, for my own actions. And I can't blame graffiti for doing anything to me because like I said, prior to me taking on that venture of I'm gonna go paint, I also take the responsibility of what could happen. You know, but you know, I also know that a lot of individuals they do other things other than graffiti, you know, they know substance problems, they do all sorts of other issues that occur within like their life cycle or adventurous life in terms of graffiti.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

So personally, like I wouldn't tell a kid do graffiti.

SPEAKER_06 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

I would say don't do it. If I met a kid that's already doing it, depending on the day, if I feel like nice, I might give him a pointer or two.

SPEAKER_07 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Mainly just shut the fuck up and move it straight around.

SPEAKER_07 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Because the principle um of defeat for me is always to remain anonymous.

SPEAKER_07 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

There is no point for you to be blabbing about what you did.

SPEAKER_07 6:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

You know, if you are an individual that's really um motivated by the so-called attention or fame, I get it, but that same trait is what's gonna get you busted, associated with the wrong people, you know, uh betrayed. Yeah, you know, I I've had a load of people that have been figured out and you know, been told on like that so-and-so. You know, and all of a sudden, you know, he's in a fight or he's gonna jump. You know, so yeah, it's just I mean, that's like much of the game today.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

Like social media, the attention, the likes, um, the shows. There's a lot of graffiti shows, a lot of graffiti shows where people, and I I think it's like I see a lot of younger people and generation into that, but a lot of old school heads like them won't do uh graffiti shows like that because they want to um protect identity, they don't want everybody knowing what they look like and who they are.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah, yeah, and it's uh like you know, for me, the theme wasn't about being a celebrity. Yeah. It was about like challenging yourself to do something that, you know, you thought wasn't possible. Could I place my name on this object? Could I do it multiple times? Yeah, you know, uh, can I make it bigger, bolder, you know? How long can I last? You know, so it's more of a proposition to me as an individual, and it's not so much of like, hey, I'm gonna do this because I'm gonna get a bunch of dabs and downs or I didn't almost die multiple times so someone could be like, yo, I saw you up.

SPEAKER_07 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Because I feel personally like if that's why anyone is doing it, good luck, man.

SPEAKER_07 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Because that's just the wrong frame of mind. For me, from my perspective, like I just see things in a completely different light. You know, I don't see things as uh you know, like shits and giggles, like, oh, this is gonna be fucking fun. We're gonna vandalize people's property. I mean, for one, I know right from wrong. Yeah it's wrong to vandalize anybody's property.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

You know, I'm not one of those people that go around chicken scratching and saying, like, oh, it's art. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's fucking vandalism. If you're saying that's art, yeah, you're just finding an excuse. To me, it could be artistic, yeah, but it doesn't matter if I'm fucking painting the Mona Lisa on the side of somebody's building, if I didn't get permission from them, I'm vandalizing their property. Now if they pay me to go paint a big old pile of turd, like a big turd that's super realistic on the side of the building, then yeah, that could be art. No. Because they wanted it, you know, this was a mutual like agreement. No. But anything, anything that wasn't.

SPEAKER_06 9:33

Um Minnesota had a question or two. I'm gonna ask her for him. Um South Central crew JW in Mexico. How did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Uh so early 2000s? Yeah. Um I had a friend that attended UCLA, and uh her and I started hanging out pretty tall. It was not in relation to graffiti or anything like that, it was just you know, mutual interest. Um and then at one point she started documenting what I was doing. And during this era, I was painting a lot of heroes solo, like in the Central Avenue Oracle, and all the way like into like Compton. Um so she had an idea of like photographing what I was doing. So we were working on a project, and I mean she becomes an important player in this because she later on to Mexico City on some trip she took. And when she was in Mexico City, she met some graffiti writers in El South, which is like that downtown area and the historic area of Mexico City, and and I think she was just like she's one of those people that rescues pets or some shit. She showed up with these guys in LA at my front door, and we had already had a fallen out. Yeah. Like me and this girl, and we were just friends, but we had a falling out because it's mother's shit. And so she had the balls to still come to my house and say, like, I found these pets, you know, these are graffiti letters from Mexico. Yeah. Like, will you like? I'm just like, and then I'm just looking at this girl like, dude, you fucking have the balls, like you totally like, you know, you fucking uh fucking uh 86 because like I was talking to this other girl she didn't like.

SPEAKER_06 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

UCLA fucking beef.

unknown 12:07

I don't know what it was.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

But I started talking to her, and I don't know, sh I guess I didn't know, maybe she liked me, I didn't know she liked me, and then she started talking to her and I was with the other girl. And so, whatever, she showed up and she just had a boss and be like, hey, what's up? Like, you know, I was in Mexico, I met these perfumers and I feel like by the way, can they stay here with me?

unknown 12:30

They can't stay in my house.

SPEAKER_07 12:32

Yeah.

unknown 12:32

I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I was in a good mood.

SPEAKER_07 12:37

So I was like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

I had these two guys, uh Stunt and Holland from Mexico City. And I took them out and painted. And then for the next two weeks we were just hanging out, like early high, like it was before, like really cool.

SPEAKER_07 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

And then these two months, yeah, we painted, I think like we hit the two, we hit the one, we hit the downtown. Um we got some spots in downtown. We had some shit in Venice. Like I gave the whole graffiti hospitality tour, right? And and then uh after two weeks, she's like, yeah, we're going back to Mexico, you wanna come? And I said, sure, you know, we didn't even buy a ticket. We fucking drove to the border. Uh and once we got to the border, we took a plane from TJ to Mexico City because it's cheaper.

unknown 13:36

Yeah. And so when we were in Mexico City, as soon as we landed, we went painting. And we were just painting it.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

So these two guys, Hollow and Stone, they became the first two guys to join GAO. And that's how that's how that came about. So I stayed in Mexico City for about three weeks and we painted every night.

SPEAKER_06 14:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

And I was really surprised to see how these dudes painted because their approach was completely different. Like they were like not really uh like any LA writer I ever met, you know, like throw-ups over there were not the same thing. Like throw-ups over there have to look like filled-in solid sticker and keep things like all the lines are tapered, like they actually go back and taper the fucking lines on the throw-up. Or here, it's like you do a throw-up, and then you outline it, and then you go. Over there, like they literally make that thing all the fucking fucking fill. It's just a throw up. Like, no, you have to have your fill in like really solid. There ain't no like spray lines, but like less is solid, and then your outline is solid, and then they taper their lines. So whenever there was an endpoint, they would taper lines, and then it's just like just like a piece, you know, like a piece.

unknown 15:04

And so I was like really tricky not on that. And they would also go out, you know, on foot, which most people know they were doing, you know, and so all the missions that we're doing on footwear on train, on bus, on foot, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Like that's like literally the best shit ever, because that's sort of the stuff I remember here in LA when we were painting, you know, painting on the bus, going to your destination, and then walking home on that same line, and you follow the line. And so that's what we were doing over there, and so that shit was dope.

unknown 15:40

And then I noticed that with the dudes that were really smart, they went they went deep. They took a lot of people with them, uh, especially in like shady areas, but specifically to be decoys, because like a lot of these dudes that were like tagging along, they didn't really know the ropes. So uh the main riders would use the other dudes as decoys. So if the cops showed up, they had a better chance of getting away. You know? And so it actually was fucking hot to me because they're really thinking things through.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

It's not just like like an adventure. But over there, there was no such thing as a cutting spot. Yeah, like oh there's a spot over here that's kinda like something in, you know, it's like we're gonna see it. It's a little cuddy spot, you know. It's it's a it's behind the fence. Yeah, all their graph was like in your fucking face on the main stream.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Like hot hot shit.

unknown 16:40

Hot boy shit, they mean all the graphics like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

And in LA, like I think there was an era where everybody was finding like abandoned lots and all other stuff, you know, and like sides of freeways and over there was nothing a lot.

unknown 16:54

It was gonna like ride in plain sight. Right in your face.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

So I mean I really liked it, but then at the same time, like I found a lot of them to be fan-faced of all you asking me questions about all their writing or something, and they were really into graph like on the nerdy level. Like, hey, turn tell me this.

unknown 17:14

I'll know what those guys are.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

You know, they were asking about all of these dudes that they see in the magazines.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

And I'm like, or or their assumption was that was that these guys were just everywhere.

SPEAKER_07 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

And I was like, no, they're only in the like for example, like the MSKs, like to them, they were everywhere.

SPEAKER_07 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

And I was like, no, they're just like in this general area of the city, like hallway and bigger, and I was like, yeah, they're not everywhere now. And it's like you see how next to a city is huge?

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Yeah.

unknown 17:48

That is not as big, but it's big. Yeah. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

You know, some people have done it, but not to the point where it's like for me. I think the facts are seeing writers are more like uh, where you are on this block and you turn the corner and you can screw it up and you turn the corner and back eyes up and you just throw it across the screen and tagging this full and throw it on the reader because what the fuck?

unknown 18:14

This sounds out of control.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

And LA moves a bad thing's actually out. Uh dudes were getting up at that level because it wasn't getting bug, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

So if you did like, you know, let's say you were in ELA and you start being that area, and then you start moving out into other areas, but your week that shit was still rolling around, and then you have your other spot. So you can have a spot in 82, and then like have a spot from 85, and then you would like that action and put in three, but nowadays, you know, that couldn't be good.

SPEAKER_06 19:02

Yeah, bugmarks are strong right now.

unknown 19:04

Yeah, yeah, I mean, when was the last time you saw a landmark? It's a rare, right?

SPEAKER_06 19:10

A landmark is in LA? Maybe like in the oldest landmarks I see right now are to modern two. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Like I have a landmark from 1993. Right over the train tractor. Okay. Where the train track is? Yeah. As soon as the train goes over, you go to the right hand side, it's a big opinion, it's boots, probably.

unknown 19:40

Some of the most colorful things we've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

And uh there's actually also a tumor and a 125, and they like tag close to that spot much later.

SPEAKER_05 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

And the first and it's still there. Yeah. Colors faded, it's like a grill, and there's a fence in front of that grill, and it's still there, man.

SPEAKER_06 20:05

That's dope.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And that's a that's the probably the last surviving landmark.

SPEAKER_06 20:13

What's crazy is that like I went to Italy and uh Milan, and they have this thing where they really don't bore each other. They don't cap each other like that, like they do out here. Yeah. And there's like stuff from the 90s, all kinds of stuff from the 90s. Stuff from the 90s. Even when I went to Baltimore, there was throwies and bombs and pieces from the stuff from the 90s on all the tracks.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah. And you know, that's how it used to be. Like people didn't have things, especially older stuff. Yeah. But the thing is that there's just too many like new writers that don't really ropes and when they start painting, they don't really have any idea as to how to conduct yourself. Because to be a beef is all about respect, right?

SPEAKER_07 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

You gain it by doing your thing, but you also gain it by making other people shit alone.

SPEAKER_06 21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

And so if you don't give respect, you don't get it back.

SPEAKER_07 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

And and it's really easy to cap beef if you're like running like running around like your own fucking shit. Yeah. Absolutely. Like me personally, like, I never capped over anybody's shit on purpose. Yeah. But if I had to, I've done it. You know, and if I had to own up to it, I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:36

You know.

unknown 21:37

But it was not something that I kind of did.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Like I had to eat with you, there were situations, and then there were some times like, hey, do you need that space? Yeah. But like I said, I never kind of deal with myself without knowing the consequences. Am I able to deal with it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:11

It's it's interesting because I see a lot of cat feel because there's still a lot of space to be.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

It's also like it's there's still kind of different stages.

SPEAKER_07 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

And I I feel like these these these current generations are less respectable. Of course. I had some kids in the channel of the smallest, I ask them the questions about this. And I was I I cut them really quickly. But I said I said to the second thing. Think about the next one. I said, that's a substitute. Because there are no rules in the streets, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Like if if I chose to fucking make that deal, like hey, there's probably gonna be consequences for fucking up a miner.

SPEAKER_06 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

But that dude had it coming to me, and I was just acting like a fool.

SPEAKER_06 24:09

So it's tricky, man. The the disrespect. I had a lot of people, younger guys, new generation, try to tell me how I should paint. I should paint larger. Uh telling me how the way I paint is not cool. I should be better. I should be this I'm like dude, like yeah, it's in my face, but they're doing it. They're saying it, you don't realize what they're saying. They're saying that it's so very nonchalant. Like, like, like we're not gonna say I'm better than them or but they're saying that like we're like we're equals, like we're the same age or something like that. But yeah, but their philosophy of graffiti is way different than mine. I feel like there was more it was different back in the time. When I came in, it was early 2000s, and graffiti was a whole different, it was a different vibe. Nowadays, it's like I don't know, man. It's not the same. It's it's doesn't have the same depth and meaning that it did. Obviously, I went into you, you'll be painting a lot of heavyweights, a lot of OGs, and I would search a lot, and um I got a lot of wisdom. And I don't see that anymore in the streets presently in LA.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

I mean I can't say it's here because I I don't really hang out. Yeah, so I I don't know, but it's probably not it's anything different.

SPEAKER_06 25:46

But do you think it's like it's not just graffiti though?

SPEAKER_02 25:48

It's like it's like a it's just the current climate of um of just society and mind putting together um they fight real hard.

SPEAKER_06 26:05

I mean how how are you coping with today's political cultural climate? It's different, it's not getting old.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah, I I mean I'm still pretty old school right now. I I respect I expect, respect, respect, yeah. I'm not trying to fight anybody, but I'm also not trying to take anybody's shit.

SPEAKER_06 26:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

And so I will say something. I I'll speak that for myself all the time. I I don't take anybody like lightly or you're bigger than me. I don't care. Um if you're not motivated to do anything, and I'm not just addressing this on graph but anything in life, you're not going to do anything. And it's as simple as that. It's like, do you really love what you're doing? Or are you just doing it because your peers are doing it? Yeah. But if it's something that you really love doing and that's what you want to do, whether it's graph and business, whatever, it'll show. It'll show. You'll be motivated too. You'll be really, you'll be waking up with the with the freaking uh vigor to go do it. You know, you go to sleep thinking of I need to look at that spot. Yeah. You know, but if you don't have motivation, you're not going to gain momentum of traction. So once you get motivation, the traction and the and the momentum will follow. And then once the momentum is built, it'll just be a self um running machine. Because that momentum will just keep you going. It'll be like, I got that spot. Dude, that's fucking dope.

unknown 27:56

Can I get can I make it bigger?

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Can I get it higher? Can I push the energies? So it's just about the momentum. Once you get the momentum going, then um you know the desire is just more natural.

unknown 28:10

Yeah. But um outside of that, it's not like you can just sit down and plan feedback.

SPEAKER_06 28:21

I never heard anybody like plan the bigger figure. I never plan the figure right. That was an interesting point that I want to do a feedback.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

It's like it's like skateboarding. You see somebody do it and you're like, that's cool. And you try it and you fall.

unknown 28:39

Yeah, fuck that happened. Yeah. So then you lose all motivation because you have a hip up. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

But for the dude that ends up liking skateboarding, they could break a leg. Yeah. And as soon as they're healed, they're gonna jump back on it. Yeah. Because they love the sensation, you know, the overall like cultural aspect feeling of it. Yeah. You know, but there is there's no way to me. There's no way to say you're gonna There's no way to campaign. We're gonna learn profits.

unknown 29:17

Yeah. It's like you either love it or you don't.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

And it's not giving you anything bad.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Yeah, but that's the thing. It's like, what is it really giving you? Like self-gratification. Yeah. No, yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

It's not something like let me let me wrap this because like if you're not motivated to do anything, and I'm not just addressing this in graph, but in anything in life, you're not going to do anything. And it's as simple as that. It's like do you really love what you're doing? Or are you just doing it because your peers are doing it? Yeah. But if it's something that you really love doing and that's what you want to do, whether it's craft or business or whatever. It'll show. It'll show. You'll be motivated to do it. You'll be really, you'll be waking up with the with the freaking uh vigor to go and do it. You know, you'll go to sleep thinking about like I need to live at that spot.

SPEAKER_07 30:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

You know, but if you don't have motivation, you're not going to gain momentum or traction. So once you get motivation, the traction and the momentum will follow. And then once the momentum is built, it'll just be a self running machine. Because that momentum will just keep you going. It'll be like, I got that spot. Dude, that's fucking dope. Can I get can I make it bigger? Can I go higher? Can I push the boundaries? So it's just about the momentum. Once you got the momentum going, then uh, you know, like the desire is just more natural.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Like, but uh outside of that, it's not like you can sit down and plan, like, I'm going to be a graffiti writer.

SPEAKER_06 31:07

You know, the point b A point B, you know, like I've never heard anybody that planned to be a graffiti graffiti writer. I never it's not that I was in elementary school and like I want to be a graffiti writer, and I don't know what you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

It's like it's like skateboarding. You go skateboarding, you see somebody do it and you're like, that's cool. And then you try it and you fall, and you're like, fuck, that's not good. Yeah so then you lose all motivation because you had a hiccup.

unknown 31:35

Yeah, right? But for the dude that ends up loving skateboarding, they could break a leg. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

And as soon as they're healed, they're gonna jump back on it. Yeah. Because they love the sensation and the overall like cultural aspect feeling of it. Yeah. And that there is no way to there's no way to say you're really there's no campaign. We're not running for office here. Yeah. It's like you either love it or you don't. And it's not giving you anything back.

SPEAKER_05 32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

That's the thing. It's like, what is it really giving you? Like self-gratification.

SPEAKER_05 32:14

Yeah. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

It's not it's not giving you anything back.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Let me let me grab this because anything else you want to say? Any last closing remarks, any shout-outs?

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Just be happy.

SPEAKER_06 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Just be happy, have a great outlook for yourself. Like, in regards to anything you do, if you don't do it with a smile, don't do it.

SPEAKER_06 32:37

It's funny you say that because I was reading this book last night about how when people have a strong will or their will's too strong, it starts hardening their um their arteries and their body parts. Um your body responds to your will, your understanding, and your perspective on life. So if you have like a happy perspective and look outlook on life, a soft disposition, and the rest of the body.

SPEAKER_05 33:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 33:28

Yes, you make it. Uh yeah, we'll be opening what I see. Alright, for sure. Yeah, uh, okay, we're gonna hopefully work out. Alright, buddy.

SPEAKER_06 33:49

Alright, man. This is five in a day.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, I mean I need that, dude. I need like but that's interesting you said that, you know? And and that's the kind of stuff I like, you know. I like being more um well read and discovering about things because there's more to life than graffiti. Oh yeah. You know, but I think a lot of graffiti writers they get sucked into the fact that that's all their life is about. And when that when that happens to me, it's kind of sad because like there's more to life than just so much. There's so much like but at the moment in time, for some of us, that meant that meant a lot, you know, like the whole writing. But it was, I think it was more more like for some people, it was more about the the friendships they struck up and the experiences that they had and and the growth that Graph provided because it is like an adventure. So you're out there kind of learning the world, trying to figure out how to like exist in it. I think someone just kind of miss it. Miss that lesson, you know? They just kind of see like, oh, I'm just out here looking around. But there are a lot of other things that I got from Graph that uh some people that were painting around the time I did did not get that. Like they didn't see that, you know. Whereas I I did, I was like, I was really aware of that. Oh, that's just I don't know. That's like a great life lesson right there, you know. Um yeah, man.

SPEAKER_06 35:26

I I see a lot of people that get into graffiti, they get into it for community, right? And they they stress on the community more than the graffiti. And uh I guess as you as I got older the community started getting smaller and they didn't share the same values. So I kind of like kind of did my own thing, I kind of stayed in myself to where to me graffiti is just like a zen thing for me. I go out, um I'm one with nature, with stars, I'm people watching. Um the more I learn about myself, the more I learn about people, and vice versa, the more I learn about people in my environment, and the more I learn about myself. So I turn it into like this uh kind of spiritual uh initiation, and it's more fulfilling that way, to do it that way versus uh no offense to people that do it, like just smoking, drinking, and going out or doing nose candy, going out, have a great time. For me, it's more of a I don't do drugs, I don't drink, and that's probably why a lot of people don't go paint with me. Yeah, it's uh it's more of an inward uh journey as it is, as as within, so without kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah.