007 Seven Years In. Feeling Nauseous. | Social Current President and CEO Jody Levison-Johnson

Jody Levison-Johnson had a big idea and had to decide whether to bet her organization's resources on it. A film was coming out that could either quietly fade or become an inflection point for how the country thinks about the nonprofit sector. She had to decide if Social Current should lead the campaign that followed, and how much to ask her board for.

She also talks about the two ways CEOs drift into bad decisions: chasing off-mission funding and refusing to sunset programs they love, plus why she thinks the hardest decision most nonprofit CEOs eventually face is knowing when to leave.

Dr. Jody Levison-Johnson is President and CEO of Social Current, a national organization that accredits, trains, and advocates for a network of approximately 1,800 human service organizations across the US and Canada.

Transcript

Introduction to Social Current and Leadership

Adam Jeske 0:05

Nonprofit CEOs are constantly making consequential decisions, often under pressure or in isolation. I'm Adam Jeski, the Nonprofit CEO Advisor, and this is the Nonprofit CEO Podcast, where CEOs talk about the decisions they carry. Today, our guest is Dr. Jody Levison Johnson, president and CEO of Social Current. Jody, welcome to the show.

Jody Levinson-Johnson 0:25

Thanks for having me, Adam. Great to be here.

Adam Jeske 0:28

So for listeners who are not familiar with Social Current, tell us a little bit about the organization.

Jody Levinson-Johnson 0:32

Social Current is an organization that exists to strengthen and support human service organizations across the US and Canada. And so we do that through a variety of ways. We accredit organizations according to best practice standards. We provide training, technical assistance, and consultation in areas like leadership and organizational development, infusing trauma-informed approaches into your operating environment. And then we also do policy and advocacy work on Capitol Hill, really with the idea that strong organizations need to function in hospitable environments. And the policy context is the environment in which we function. So that's sort of a nutshell version of us.

Adam Jeske 1:17

And how long have you been leading at Social Current?

Jody Levinson-Johnson 1:20

We were formed as a result of a merger that occurred in 2021, but I started as the CEO of the Council on Accreditation, one of the legacy organizations, um, almost to the day, seven years ago. So seven years as a CEO and since 2021 as the CEO of Social Current.

Adam Jeske 1:41

And during the time you could go farther back before the merger or during uh these recent years under the umbrella of Social Current, tell us about a consequential decision that you've had to make in your leadership role.

Engaging in Narrative Change

Jody Levinson-Johnson 1:56

Sure. I mean, there's so many. It was it was hard to pick just one. And so I decided I'd go with like more recent, um, just because it's fresh. One of the things that I do at Social Current is I spend a fair amount of my time trying to talk to the leaders of the organizations who are in our network. So we have about 1,800 organizations across the US and Canada. And I make it a point to talk to a handful of them each week, if possible, to make sure I'm having my like eyes and ears on what's really going on. Like consistently, I hear about these sort of thematic things that are troubling organizations. But really, this the thing that kind of kept coming up was the fact that organizations are expected to do more than less, do things on the cheap, that um that reimbursement never covers costs. There was like these sort of um constant themes. And like one of the things I just started to think about is it's it's sort of ludicrous that we should be in a sector that requires people to have host gallas and golf tournaments to keep their doors open and their lights on. Like that just like in no other industry would that be tolerated. Um, really started to think about what is social current's role in in changing that dynamic. And so um had a great opportunity where um a lot of folks are familiar with um the book Uncharitable or Dan Pilata's TED Talk. And as I was like having all these thoughts about like this is an untenable narrative for our sector, the movie Uncharitable was coming out. And I was like, how is this gonna be different than the TED Talk or the book? Like those were long ago and things are similar. And so I started down this path of figuring out like what was gonna result from the movie and how could social current be a part of that, which led us to this opportunity to partner with the uncharitable film team and lead a social impact initiative that would really try to result in like more uptake of some of the concepts of uncharitable, but was also fresh for me as it was beyond what's illustrated in uncharitable. And so we didn't want necessarily to just do uncharitable. And so to do that though is gonna require an investment of resources, time, mine, other staff, um, as well as cash. Like we wanted to put some money where our mouth was and say, we're gonna, we're gonna really work on this narrative change. And so I went to the board with this sort of big idea that we ought to be the lead entity for the social impact campaign that follows from uncharitable, that it needed to be bigger than uncharitable, that we needed to really tackle things like total cost contracting, not just from philanthropy. Um, we needed to talk about living wages, not just for leadership positions, but all people working in particularly for us in human services, but I would say also more broadly in the sector. And so I, you know, I definitely talked to my executive team about the idea. It's not that I didn't, but that decision, and this is one of the things I think is unique as a CEO, that decision about what you're actually going to go to your board with and ask for, that really is yours and yours alone. You can get all the input in the world, but it's ultimately me, CEO, who reports to that board who's going and saying, I'd like us to invest X amount of dollars in um really making this happen. And so I that was like to me, it was like it was taking a bit of a risk because again, I was thinking about like, you got this book, you got this TED Talk, we haven't seen the sector shift. And and what I also realized, and this I think comes from some years of experience, thankfully, is just because we want to make it so and we believe in it, doesn't mean it happens. And so I remember like when I first started working in the field, I'm like, I'm gonna change the world. And I thought I could do that in five years. And so I've kind of changed that timeline. I've been in the field since like the early 90s. And my timeline has been like, in my lifetime, if I see some of the change that I want to see happen in our sector, then I've achieved the goal. Um, but realizing that like if we're really gonna engage in narrative change about the nonprofit sector, and I actually choose not to dismiss your podcast or your title, but I don't love the word because no sector really describes themselves by what they aren't, and we do, but to change that narrative and to have people start thinking differently and going to the board and saying, I want us social current to invest our resources in this, that was a big decision that I that I carried along.

Adam Jeske 6:36

Mm-hmm. How long was it between first thinking about the film, maybe we could do something with it, until this is what we're doing and let's figure out how to do it?

Jody Levinson-Johnson 6:50

That's a great question. So it's so interesting because it felt like it took forever. And when I think about it though, really like I remember the board meeting, it was our October board meeting that I asked for the investment. And we started the conversations, I would say, in March. So it was only about like six or seven months of thinking about it, talking to CEOs, also talking to the social impact lead from Uncharitable, talking to Dan Pilata, talking to the film's director, because it wasn't like we just stepped up and said, Hey, we want to do this, and like they had to decide that they wanted to work with us. So it was that we did like it was almost like a merger, like because we did like this sort of courting dating kind of thing where we were doing the get to know you thing. Like that wasn't originally when I first started talking to them. I didn't say we should be doing this for you. It was, I first approached them and said, we want to be a part of whatever happens. And then as the conversations kind of continued, I was like, we have infrastructure, we have a network, we have a platform, like we could be helpful. And so it really the conversations went from like, oh, we're just sort of dating to like, oh, maybe we're gonna like end up in a permanent relationship and we're gonna mark our status as, you know, like in relationship. And so, um, so it was a process both with the uncharitable team, but then also with the social current team and board.

Adam Jeske 8:09

So you're in this evaluation stage. Are we taking the next step in the relationship with the film project and and with uh the uncharitable team? Was there information that you did not have that would have been helpful along the way?

Jody Levinson-Johnson 8:26

You know, as I think about it, you know, hindsight's always 2020. And so um I, you know, I think about really having like we we I feel like this is one of those things. I don't love this term because I feel like it's overused, but I feel like this is one of those things that we've sort of like been building the plane while we've been flying it. And I think if I hadn't felt such a sense of urgency, especially in this moment, um, that I might have like spent a little more time designing before even going to the board or, you know, like this is with though, this is what we want to do. We had some big ideas, but we've really allowed the the work to take shape as we've sort of done it. So we've we knew we were gonna work with communities. Like I'll say that much. Like at the very outset, we were like, social current, I would say we're one of those organizations who recognizes we know what we know and we know what we don't know. And one of the things we don't know is what life is really like on the ground, working, doing human services in communities. And so I really rely on our network and our partners to help us with that. And so we decided early on we were gonna work with pilot communities to to figure out what this change campaign could look like. What is the, what is the narrative, what is the marketing and PR, what's the policy and advocacy framework? So we had sort of a this idea of like, we're gonna focus on marketing and communications, we're gonna fall focus on um on policy, we're gonna focus on um the the sort of the um the environment we can control, the media trying to raise awareness in the media, those types of things. But what that was gonna actually look like, we didn't know. And so we just launched a uh like a competitive application process to select pilot communities. We have no idea what we were gonna get. And so we couldn't really design too too much. Um, and then once we selected them, then we designed. So I guess like that was sort of a long answer to your question about like, I may have spent more time, like if if time had been on our side, I would have maybe spent more time like doing like the who's interested competitive process so that we could have designed and brought a bit a bit more of a fully baked idea to both the movie, but then also to um to the board and to the staff. At the same time, the fact that we didn't has really allowed us to pivot when we needed to, to adapt. I mean, the environment has changed. I mean, we're when we first were talking about this, this was a couple of years ago. And so, you know, like the the environment around us uh was completely different in terms of the economics of things, what human service organizations were facing, um, the abundance of donors or grant funding, all those things, like all the things that have changed, which happen all the time. Um, and I think that there was this urgency, especially like, because we could have spent more time planning. And it was like, no, now is this moment because the sector is sort of being devalued. And if we stepped away from the conversation now, we'd miss a big opportunity. I is what I was thinking.

Adam Jeske 11:43

What is the current status of those pilot communities of the the work there for in conjunction with the film?

The Five and Rising Initiative

Jody Levinson-Johnson 11:49

They're all working on really different things. So one is really focusing on indigenous practices in philanthropy, another is thinking about the foster care system, another is thinking about how do you build the proper infrastructure to support organizations to function at their best and at their full capacity. So very different sort of areas of focus. Um, and what we have done is we've worked to develop a curriculum for them. So we have a 12-module curriculum that talks about just some of the basics that we think are important. Like we're talking one month about leadership, and we're talking another about um philanthropy, and we're talking about policy, and we're bringing in guest speakers to help them talk about those things. We're talking about systems change. We've offered several curriculum sessions. We were able to do a face-to-face meeting, which was really cool because we've got these places. One's like the Mid-Atlantic, one is Northwest Ohio, one is Hawaii. So, like the ability to get together, plus social current is entirely virtual. The ability to get together was really cool. So we were able to bring them together for a learning session. Then we've done a bunch of virtual work. And now we're in the beginning stages of planning sort of on-site work with each of the different pilot communities. One of the things they needed to do was form a steering committee. And their steering committee couldn't just be sector people, it needed to be business and universities and philanthropy and volunteers and people with lived experience and other nonprofit organizations. And we really like bringing that group together to do some planning because what we also want is multiple perspectives trying to shape like how they're going to deal with their thorny issue. So we're starting to think about what that looks like and how these communities and those steering communities are going to shape what we're calling the blueprint for the future of the sector. Because we think right now we have a really cool opportunity to really think about if things change in this country, you know, in the next set of elections, let's be ready for what the sector ought to look like. So some of the things that have happened over the past year have been difficult for the sector to endure. And yet at the same time, what I keep reminding people is we didn't necessarily love the way things were working before this year. And so rather than just having people potentially come in and reinstate, like let's instead like, let's have a blueprint and say, here's what would make this really work better. So I think it's this opportunity to give voice to some of these things that have held us back, like true cost contracting, uh policy and advocacy that don't allow us to do our work in ways that are truly flexible and meet the needs of community, that we could be less prescriptive and still have a proper oversight and accountability. So all these things. So we're gonna we're gonna work with the communities on that as well as continuing the marketing and communications campaign because we launched what we call five and rising. And I don't think I said that yet, which is funny, but we're working on this movement that we're calling five and rising. And it's really a big part of it is because the nonprofit sector is 5.2% of the US GDP and 10% of the of the American workforce. And so we are a force to be reckoned with. We're an economic driver, and we want to elevate that information. People don't realize that. I can't tell you how many people, Adam. I've said, do you know that the nonprofit sector is 10% of the US workforce? And they're like, no, they had no clue. Um, and I think some of the perceptions still hold. I remember a report from independent sector in 2023 said the sector existed to serve the as a quote, the the needy and less fortunate. And I thought to myself, so long as that's the perception of the sector, we're gonna continue to be held back because unfortunately, we continue to marginalize the needy and less fortunate. And um, some of those systemic barriers really remain. And so let's elevate the profile of the sector to talk about the economic force it is and the vast amount of things it does.

Adam Jeske 15:56

Jody, as you approached this opportunity, you said you were talking with your board. Of course, there was some input from your executive team. Were there other people that you were trying to get perspective from, maybe some of your constituent member organizations or their constituents down in a bit farther or outside uh wise perspective? Who else were you looking to to inform this decision?

Seeking Perspectives and Inclusivity in Decision-Making

Jody Levinson-Johnson 16:23

This was one of those decisions that I definitely saw input. I am, I can be over-inclusive. Like I guess that's not a horrible sin to have, you know, but but like but it can slow decision making. And so I'm like recognizing that balance of inclusivity versus like just decision making autonomously. And for this idea, because it was so big and because I know it's gonna take so much time, this is such long tail work. I wanted to talk to, I mean, I talked to tons of organizations in our network, I talked to a ton of our staff, I talked to staff in those other organizations, but I also went outside of the sector. So I talked to our partners. Many of them are, you know, corporate partners, small business owners. I talked to folks we had worked with in the past. Like I talked with the marketing and communications firm that we worked with to name social current to say, like, what do you think about this big idea about changing narrative? I think the corporate perspective was super interesting to me because I realized that like some of it we hold ourselves back, the sector itself. You know, we take these contracts that don't cover our full cost and we figure out how to scrape by and make up the difference. So some of it is us for sure, but some of it is not us. And so talking to people outside of the sector and saying, do you think this would be valuable? Do you have any interest in really understanding what nonprofits are really about and what they do and um how some of the things that apply to us don't apply to other organizations? Um, I was fortunate in that because we were partnering with the film, we had screening links for the film. So I was able to share that with all sorts of people. I would say that the urgency was felt, I think, most acutely within the sector. But as I started to talk with other people and raise awareness about, like, did you know that like oftentimes we will, you know, accept a contract and like that doesn't cover our full cost because when we put in our bid for the contract, we'll the procurer who's often a like local state government will come back to us and ask us what our best and final offer is. And people in the in the business sector were like, well, yeah, well, we get that too. And I'm like, yeah, but we're coming in pretty, like, pretty margin free at that point. There's not a lot to shave. And I talked about my own, like my own, I don't know if compliciteness is a word, complicity. I'm not sure. It sounds, but I definitely like I can remember being chief clinical officer of a of a multi-state organization. We put in a bid, the government comes back, says, what's your best and final? And so all of a sudden I'm skimming back. Oh, we need less clinical supervision, we need less wraparound funds for kids, we need a little bit less of Jody time and blah, blah, blah. And we can make it like, and I did that. And many of us do that. Why do we do that? No other industry would do that. If I was manufacturing a car, like if Ford was manufacturing a car and they couldn't sell it for at least what they put into it, they'd discontinue the model. Well, we don't do that. We're like, no, no, we can make it work because we think about the commodity that we're in, and that's human lives, and we're worried. If we don't do it, then what will happen?

Balancing Program Effectiveness and Funding Challenges

Adam Jeske 19:38

I was having a couple of conversations with other CEOs that come back to mind, and it's curious the way you're describing trying to cut, cut, cut, and in order to win some sort of funding stream or to, you know, w which ends up being borne by and large by our team members within the nonprofit sector because we do really care about the outcomes and the people that we serve, especially in human services organizations. The conversation that I was having earlier was also about how sometimes we don't trim back programs that need to be deprioritized. Uh, and sometimes we're wasting time and energy and we're esteeming our employees or people in the sector more than we're esteeming the people that we exist to serve. So it's a curious balance that we have to walk in this sort of work. Thinking back through this season of deciding to enter into this new opportunity with the film and the Five and Rising initiative, was there a moment where the emotions were particularly intense where things were really crashing upon you of go no go?

Jody Levinson-Johnson 20:57

You know, it's interesting. I was really fortunate. I think maybe I learned this when I did our merger, but um, and maybe I just learned this because of my over-inclusive style. So I'm not quite sure. Or maybe it's like a function of all those things. But socializing ideas and planting seeds along the way has always been sort of my approach. And so I think because of that, there was less of that sort of crisis kind of moment that ended up happening, or or some high-stakes thing, and more of the can we pull the plug now? Can we move forward now? I really think that that that was largely a result of spending a fair amount of time like thinking about it before I ever like talk to the film and then talking to staff and then talking to certain members of the board. So it was like really sort of like getting the ground fertile so that when we were ready to plant the seeds, it would take root. And I think anytime you're you're willing to invest money, then there's always that are you gonna have buyers reporting? And so as we were contributing money towards the film, we were like, is this the right thing? The film was already made, but we were contributing towards it. Is this the right thing? Is this going to just be money we've thrown out the window? So there was some of that. And then I also think when there was a shift in the administration, there was a lot of people who were like, you know, maybe now's not the time to call attention to the sector. Maybe we should just wait and see. You know, this was even post-election, but pre-inauguration, what we just like, nobody knew. And I kept thinking, no matter what happens in with new administrations, I mean, administrations change all the time. And I worked in state government. I watched what that what that looks like even at a state level. That no matter what, it's never a bad time to raise awareness about an important thing. It's just how you do it. So I think there was some hesitation. Like people were like, is now really the time? We don't know what the future looks like. And I kind of have been one of those people who's like, you never really know what the future looks like. So there's no better time. And we knew even like last year, there was a bill that made it through the House that was really about being able for the tr for Treasury to unilaterally strip status from a nonprofit. And so, regardless of administration, I mean, we're a bipartisan organization. Regardless of who's in office, who's in Congress, like whatever, there's always going to be threats to the sector. And so having a good sort of knowledge and information campaign that provides accurate information is always a good thing. And I think one of the things that we aspire to do and we aren't there yet is like the media play that our sector gets, the things that make the news, the papers, are the terrible, awful things. And they inevitably happen. We know that. We work with people. Like bad things happen to people sometimes. Those are the things that hit the news. And they're like one out of a hundred or one out of a million. The 99,000 or 99,999,000 people who end up having really good experiences and organizations, their stories don't hit the news. What hits the news is the one unfortunate event. And so really shifting the media's attention to the things that matter, like how nonprofits have impact, as opposed to when the terrible, awful, bad thing happens. So that's like an aspiration. Um, and it's one that I still think is more, is more important than ever because I just the other day someone's like, hey, did you see this? And it was like some random story about some CEO who was caught, you know, embezzling money. It happens, but it doesn't just happen in nonprofits. It happens across the the world in all sorts of sectors. And funny how what really gets the front page is when the nonprofit sector is seen as taking money from the needy, as opposed to the for-profit CEO who's taking money from the stockholders. You know, it's it's really interesting to me. So I'd like the double standard to be downplayed. Um, and so that's that's a future aspiration for us. But the time is now. I think the time is going to be right no matter what, because people need to think differently about us.

Adam Jeske 25:11

Widen out a bit from this particular decision to what you see in social current member organizations? 1800 is a a wide, you know, data set that you have access to, that you're watching, that you're tracking with. What areas of the institutional life and especially the role of the CEO in those organizations consistently produces the most difficult decisions?

The Loneliness of Leadership

Jody Levinson-Johnson 25:40

You know, it's one of the things I think is really interesting is this is gonna, I don't know if it's gonna sound terrible. I think it's gonna sound honest. I hope it doesn't sound terrible. Knowing when to leave. Um, I remember like really early, 2001, I took a job. And this when I took the job, it was a lower level job, but um, the CEO of the organization I was going to work for had he was the founding CEO. He had just stepped down, and his um successor, who had been planned and brought in, stepped up to be the president of the organization. I was just sort of surprised by that because I thought this guy's, I mean, he's still working, he stayed on as a as a senior vice president. So he wasn't like retiring, he was just like changing. And I remember talking to him about it. I was really young in my career, and I remember him saying to me, it was really funny. He said to me, the best organizational chart is the one with nothing but air underneath you, which at the time I was young and aspiring for, you know, big things that made no sense to me. Um, I recently saw him and I said to him, now that makes total sense to me. But it's that idea that you can still be a contributor in an organization. You don't have to be the leader, but perhaps you have a season, perhaps you have a prime. And what he knew and what the successor CEO said to me is, you know, I feel like your biggest impact is made, you know, in your first seven to 10 years. And then it may be time. And so, which sort of as I say it out loud, I'm like, oh my gosh, I just celebrated seven years. So I'm a little nauseous about that because I'm not done yet, definitely not. But that idea of like, I think people are really struggling, not only because they're not sure if it's their time to let go, but who to let go to. And so that's one of the things I hear a lot of CEOs grapple with is succession planning, not just for them as CEO, but for their whole like um executive level suite for the next tier of managers. Like, how do we really develop leaders in our human service environment? And it's not something I think we've done incredibly well. I think a lot of people rise through the rank in human services. Like you're a good clinician, so you become a supervisor and then you become a like administrator or a leader. And you may not even have any of those skills. You are a great clinician, but you're a lousy supervisor. So, how do we really cultivate and develop talent? How do we know when it's time to like let go of the reins? I think that's something that um has come up. I also think that the the thing I continue to see in our sector is increased need, increased demand for services, but then not increased supports financially to do it. And so trying to do more with less and really trying to do that while taking care of staff. So we spend a lot of time talking with organizations about their workplace culture. And I mentioned, like when I was talking about social current, this trauma-informed idea. A lot of people think about trauma-informs and they think it's about offering cognitive behavioral therapy to people who have experienced trauma. Yes, that's the clinical practice, but you can have a trauma-informed work environment. And it, the concepts of psychological safety that have really kind of gotten more popular now. How do you create a work environment where people really feel supported, where they feel like they're valued, and that they're also recognized for who they are as individuals? And really, that's becoming more and more important to the next generation of workforce and and how we do that, it's it's an art and we need to get better. So I think those are some of the things, like really trying to make workplaces feel safe, comfortable, positive, especially when you're facing increased demand, maybe fewer resources. And as if you're a sector worker, you may not be making a particularly compelling wage yourself. So you may be like driving Uber after you're doing therapy and um you're pretty tired. And so there's all those things I think that are sort of crushing right now. And I'd like to figure out the solve for that. I mean, so would many people.

Adam Jeske 29:51

Jody, what do you wish someone had told you before you became a CEO in the sector?

Jody Levinson-Johnson 29:59

Oh gosh, the list is so long. Um that it's lonely. Like I say that to people all the time. And because of that, I crave connection to other CEOs. I think people gave me like it's tough being at the top because you shoulder the burden of all of the mistakes that you make, as well as all the mistakes that everybody makes. And even if no one is like angry, upset about it, I know that um it weighs heavily on you. Like I was just talking to someone about some of the the choices I've made, whether it's staffing or what to like what services to go after, like what we want to offer, whatever, any number of things. And ultimately, like the buck stops with me. And I take that responsibility, and I think my fellow CEOs do too, very seriously. I carry that around with me all the time, and that the decisions I make affect people's lives like directly and indirectly. And no one actually said that to me. Um, and I say it, it's funny. I just before um talking to you today, Adam, I was talking to this young woman who I mentor. I actually started mentoring her actually when I started at the Council on Accreditation. So for seven years. And it's one of the things I've told her. Like I've told her like that, which is it's as you rise the rank, you're gonna get lonelier and the burden's gonna feel more. And so I think that's like one of the things that I really like. I crave and am fortunate to have great connections and relationships with other CEOs. And because I and then I and sometimes people like curate groups and they're not CEOs and they're like, this will meet your need. And it's different, it does meet a need, but there's something unique about being in a room with only other people who are what I call the top dog because they know the feeling I'm talking about of pressure, of loneliness, of responsibility. And if you're anything like me, which I can be a tad bit type A, like I feel it, I carry it with me. It hurts my heart when I make mistakes that impact like the sector, social current, the, you know, whoever. And so it's great to have an executive coach, but it's even as important to have a peer group who you feel safe with, who you can get vulnerable with and say, I blew it. I totally blew it. I mean, I recently told a CEO that I was working on my redemption for a mistake I made. Nobody else is paying attention to this thing. It was no big deal. But I'm like, I have a redemption tour that I'm doing. And so I think that's it's it. It's it's um, I think people need to know how hard it is and that you're not alone, but it does feel lonely. But you need to create that sense of community for yourself. And I'm really fortunate that I have a couple of groups that are CEOs who who are those things.

Adam Jeske 33:07

Yeah, that is very much confirmed in my conversations. I've found a handful of people who say, I've got really strong relationships with people who really get it. My peers, I've got CEOs like on speed dial. I can be super real. I blew it. Um, but it's a handful out of like a couple hundred conversations uh with different CEOs. And yeah, it's there's a really strong appetite out there. So I've I mean, the podcast is one of the ways that I'm trying to decrease a little bit of that isolation, not that you can tell all the stories for the whole world to hear, but also then some of the writing that I'm doing and some of the small experiences that I'm building for CEOs are also in that direction. Let's jump to some quick response lightning round questions, shall we?

Foundational Leadership Insights

Jody Levinson-Johnson 33:57

Okay. Okay.

Adam Jeske 33:59

Tell me about a book or two that has been foundational for your leadership or something new that has come up that you're thinking about.

Jody Levinson-Johnson 34:07

Immunity to change, which I actually like, oh God, now I'm not gonna remember the authors. It's in the bookcase back there. Is that one Keegan and Lage? I can't remember. Anyway, that was a really important book for me about like what gets in the way. It was a different way of thinking about kind of that concept of resistance, which I don't love. And as a clinician, I always learned resistance was communication of unmet need. And um, immunity to change really helps you start to think about how to wear through some of that. I recently just read um Strong Ground by Brene Brown. And I was fortunate that I got to be trained by Brene Brown in a former position. There was a relationship with Brene Brown's team, and I got to be trained by them on their dare to lead work when it was still theirs and they didn't partner with another entity. Anyway, so I read Strong Ground like really recently, like over the holidays. Um, it just sort of like brought me back to some of the things I need to remember. I think that was really helpful. And then I haven't dug into it yet, but someone told me I need to read appreciate because I told someone that I was trying to be more attentive to gratitude. Like I'm pretty good at um criticism. And um just asked my husband, he's happy to share. Um, but I'm like really trying to really spend some time really acknowledging the goodness because I just think in our culture, we're really quick to complain and we're less quick to praise. And I want to be better than that. So someone told me to read Appreciate, haven't read it yet, but it is on my it is on my pile.

Adam Jeske 35:50

Uh yeah, and I just pulled it up to confirm appreciate is written by Sturt, Nordstrom, Ames, and Beckstrand. And you were right, immunity to change is by uh Keegan and Lasko Leahy.

Jody Levinson-Johnson 36:02

Okay, good.

Adam Jeske 36:04

What do you love about your work?

Jody Levinson-Johnson 36:08

That ultimately I'm doing what I set out to do from the time I was a teenager, which is I get to work on systems and things that will strengthen human services, that will allow people who are in need to get what they need when they need it, the right things at the right time, that somehow I might help people to feel stronger, safer, more capable. They don't have any option, which is something that's super important to me.

Adam Jeske 36:38

Jody, thank you for joining me on the Nonprofit CEO podcast.

Jody Levinson-Johnson 36:42

Thanks for having me. It's been fun.

Adam Jeske 36:45

If you know a nonprofit CEO who's carrying something significant, send them this show. And if you want more of the patterns that I'm seeing across hundreds of these CEO conversations, you need the nonprofit CEO briefing delivered weekly at nonprofit CEO.com. I'm Adam Jeski, the Nonprofit CEO Advisor. Thank you for what you're leading.