The Amber Moment
The podcast that tells stories of remarkable careers.
The Amber Moment
Annie Chave
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Annie is the founder of the County Cricket Matters magazine. She's also a writer, journalist and commentator. Here, she talks about how cricket "seeps into your bones"; being banned from playing because she was a girl; falling in love with Somerset County Cricket Club; "learning how to say yes"; a watershed moment in Barbados; launching a magazine over a common cause; sexism in cricket; the power of community; and becoming a published author.
Hello and welcome to the Amber Moment, a podcast that tells stories of remarkable careers. My name's Paul Howard. My guest today is Annie Chave. Annie is the founder and editor of the County Cricket Matters magazine. She's also a commentator for the BBC, mainly covering her beloved Somerset and for Gorilla Cricket. She's a columnist for the Cricket Paper and the author of the book Cricket Changed My Life. So Annie, you quite like your cricket then.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's right, isn't it? Yeah. No, I did I do. It's become a bit obsessive already. But yes, I'm very fond of cricket.
SPEAKER_00Look forward to hearing about that. Well listen, welcome to the Amber Moment. Thank you very much for being there. How are you generally today?
SPEAKER_01I I'm good. I wonder why is it Amber Moment?
SPEAKER_00Uh it's from a quote by the writer Kurt Vonnegut. No one's asked me this on the show. Oh, okay. Yes, we're all sorry. No, it's okay. Some people might be interested to hear it, although judging by the number of people who've asked me on the show, not so much. It's from a Kurt Vonnegut quote, which goes something like, Uh, We're all just trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why. So it's slightly ironic because I like to think there is a why. I'm trying to, you know, unearth people's purpose and why they do what they do. Uh but Vonnegut with that quote says that it's not, it's just moment to moment. There we go. So that's that's where the amber moment is.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay, yeah, no, I'm good. It's the start of the cricket season, so why wouldn't I be?
SPEAKER_00Wow, fantastic. And we'll talk about that, no doubt, as we as we have a chat over the next 40 minutes or whatever it's going to be. But look, what I'm trying to do generally on the amber moment is to tell some great stories of people and their remarkable careers. And yours is certainly a remarkable career, if I may say so. So, like all great stories, it has to start somewhere. And like all great heroes, and you are the hero of your own story, just to be clear on this, every hero has his or her origin story. So I'd love it if you could start by telling us a bit about your background, your childhood, your upbringing, education, and any early influences.
SPEAKER_01I'll gear it towards cricket because obviously that's where my journey has gone. But so I am child four of a completely mad professor. The absolute epitome of um mad professor. And what we did, what my life was, apart from school, uh every uh weekend all through the summer, was going to watch my dad play cricket with the four of us with my mum, and that was my life. And I kind of got to know Devon by the pubs and cricket ground. That's all I know. If anyone mentions a place in Devon, I'm like, well, oh yeah, I know the pub there, or I know the cricket ground there. So that became my life. Our our summer holidays were um jumping near a cricket ground, you know. It was just that that was basically my childhood and um grew up, and every conversation around the table would be about cricket, and uh it just yeah, it if it yeah, uh if I hadn't got into cricket, then oh my god, I'd probably have um shot myself.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna it could go one of two ways, I suppose, that sort of childhood that uh high levels of exposure to it. You're either gonna be it was gonna become a big part of you, or you'd have rebelled against it, and you obviously took the former route.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it it it does, it it seeps into your bones, you know. You just get you get completely absorbed it without actually realizing it, you take in the game, and then I started I think I started scoring at when I was about nine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Really enjoyed that whole, you know, figures and stats and what was going on, and and it just it just found it fascinating, and so you you just get absorbed and and then cricket became a a big deal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm not sure I've ever asked you this before, but you're talking about getting to know Devon via the cricket grounds and and the pubs. Do you have a favourite cricket ground in either Devon or the world?
SPEAKER_01I do. I do have a favourite cricket ground. It's it's in fact Peter O'Toole's favourite cricket ground as well. It's uh a cricket ground called Lusley, and it's Devon. Yeah, do you know it? Oh well it's near Newton now, but in fact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I certainly I certainly know Lusley. I can't picture the cricket ground. I can't but maybe I've played there, who knows?
SPEAKER_01It's right by the pub, um, which is another selling point. I have a and it's in the in a beautiful field right by the the river, and um well it's a stream really. The stream one side and pub the other side. You know, Picture Box Village. Um and I mean I I I haven't had to play there. Oh well, I have played there, but not you know big games or anything. But it's square, it's quite thin, I have to say. So there are a lot of sixes here. Yeah. Ah, but it's a beautiful ground. So that yeah, that is my favourite ground.
SPEAKER_00Sounds absolutely idyllic. So perhaps you can tell us a bit, perhaps you can tell us a bit then about how all those sort of formative experiences and and getting to know cricket in those early days. How how did that affect your life in general? Like how did how did that affect your school life and your work and your education and all of those early early things as well?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think you know, it it certainly I would that would be my those summer holidays, as I said, and and I would for I uh obviously when you're 14, 15, or you your friends are really important, and I would take my friends along. That would be part of my summer holiday that my yeah. It it's it's funny, isn't it? Because you think these days you've got to have so many clubs for your kids and so many this and that, and they've got to be entertained. We just I'd I'd bring a friend along to a cricket match who who couldn't care less about cricket, and we'd just spend the day uh entertaining ourselves, and and I think it's uh the one thing about cricket is it really, really teaches you a lot of things. Um, even when you're not playing it, it teaches you patience because you can't go and have the tea until the players have had it, you know, things like that. Yeah, you've got to wait to go to the pub. Yeah, you've got to wait for your parents to finish drinking before you can go home. All of those things did that happen a lot. Oh my god, yeah. We we spent a lot of time as my parents were drinking um and smoking. Can I just say time smoking? Yeah. So we would spend a lot of time sort of going uh waiting around in the freezing cold outside usually for my parents to finish their their discussions with the rest of the team.
SPEAKER_00So tell us tell us a bit about trying to get well inviting your friends along. Did did you did you convert some people to the game? Yeah, yeah. Did you have some spectacular failures as well?
SPEAKER_01Not really. I mean, I I I was scanny with with my picking of friends, so you know they they they were quite good at being manipulated.
SPEAKER_00So you you pick the suggestible ones and the ones where you're where you're pushing on an open door.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, uh, you will enjoy this. Yeah, it's just actually, I mean, I it I think it is underrated just being outside for a whole day in a field with with adults around. I think it's totally underrated how important that is for kids. Um just to see your parents or or or certainly you know other people engaged in other things and and you'll entertain yourself as well. I think it it just doesn't happen so much anymore. And I really, really I think the world's poorer for it. I you know, we we invented so many games. We have we were so imaginative. I can't tell you.
SPEAKER_00Oh, good. Tell us about some of the games you invented.
SPEAKER_01Well, we we did like if if it had a an outfield with uh long grass, we'd crawl through the long grass and and make little houses out of the grass, you know. Yeah, you'd press down the grasses that sort of thing. We would do all oh and uh we had a great um game on the slide. If if they ever had play playgrounds as well. You we did uh climbing up people as they were on the slide, and you'd have to get to the top. It was just not so many things.
SPEAKER_00It was sorry, you you cla you clambered over people up the slides.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Did this did this health and safety nightmare have a name as a game? A certain death, I think it was spine break. So the main sort of angle as you as you know of of this show is is talking about people's careers. Now it's it's interesting with you because I'd like for you to talk about those early experiences that you had falling in love with a game of cricket and how eventually that became you know or got you to where you are today. So maybe you could give us a little sort of potted synopsis of your those childhood days and through to what became your career and then where you are today.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I always wanted to be a cricketer. My brother was very good. He's a sort of brother two years older than me, um, who would play in the back garden, as lots of people did with their brother. But he would he would score like 600 and and then let me back for a couple of shots and then I'd be out, you know.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01So that was that was my tough school. That was my child child. Yeah. And then uh I followed him up to so we had uh the Devon County Ground was at the top of our rope and I followed him up to Colts and uh joined the Colts team, and then unfortunately when I was 10 somebody told the teacher that I was a girl and I was thrown out. So so I I I think at that point I thought I'd done something really bad and I was really naughty and I never I didn't really properly play cricket again until I was in my twenties. So and when I played in my twenties, I hate being bad at things. Um and you you've lost that vital yeah, because it's such an unnatural game, cricket. Yeah, bowling and batting is a natural thing to do. So if you haven't kind of had it ingrained, it's quite hard to pick it up again later.
SPEAKER_00That's a really sad tale that I know, I'm sorry. Like, no, no, no, don't be sorry. I'm sorry for you. And you can't really I mean I think about where my kids play cricket now, down it lovely Mitcham County Cricket. Not County, Mitcham Cricket Club. It's not yet Mitchamshire. But um you I can't imagine girls turning up and I mean it's so brilliantly inclusive and tons of girls in it, so you just can't imagine no, you can't play. I mean, that just sounds so alien now.
SPEAKER_01Oh, totally, totally. But uh there was no way they were having a girls' team, and of course it was too dangerous for girls to play, so you know. So my cricket playing days were over, but I did uh because we had the counterground at the top of the road, I I did crawl up the grass bank to look over into the ground when Viv Richards and Joe Barnell were playing.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01Uh they came down for I don't know what match it was anyway, but I remember seeing them and thinking, wow, these guys are just incredible. And I I didn't really look back since they then said, Okay, you know, that's that's the team I I'm supporting, and I want to see them. So that that kind I was probably about seven or eight then, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And am I right in thinking that you in recent years have met Joel Garner?
SPEAKER_01I have met Joel Garner, yes, it's a great picture of me looking about like a doll. Um he's quite he's quite tall, isn't he? Quite big.
SPEAKER_00For for those who maybe aren't uh so closely involved in the world of cricket, Joel Garner is what is he, six foot eight?
SPEAKER_01Something like that.
SPEAKER_00And just a a large man, a giant foot three. There we are. Yeah, maybe dig that photo and I'll put it, I'll put it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_01I'll see if I can find it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I've got it, don't worry. So anyway, sorry, I interrupted you talking about f falling in love with uh with Somerset. Your playing days are over, but um I think you were about to tell us about your career and how you got to where you got to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so basically uh that was um a long time ago, but and and I kind of followed Somerset and I'd go along and I'd take my son along when he was born and go along with my husband. And then what happened was my son went to university and suddenly I was kind of like it's not like I didn't have emptiness syndrome. In fact, we we really had a great time once I went, and nothing's against my son, it was just that but I had a bit more free time and I started uh yeah, start started posting on Twitter just pictures of grounds and and just l little opinions about things, and and Triscothic was one of my favourite players at that point. Oh yeah, yeah. Then Gorilla Cricket got in touch with me, and we are Gorilla Cricket.
SPEAKER_00We are indeed.
SPEAKER_01We are Gorilla Cricket. We are yes, it was Knackle at Gorilla Cricket, and he said, Why don't you come along and commentate? We need we need more women and it would be really good. And I said, No way, nah, no way, I'd be I'd be terrible. I'm not no and then he said, Oh go on, you know, and then then eventually one of my friends at work said, Go on, just do it. And so I did, and I I I really, really loved it. It's great, isn't it? It is just sitting in a room with friends talking about cricket, basically. Yeah, and uh I really loved it, but it raised my profile a bit as it does when you do that sort of thing, and and then because I was starting to get a bit more opinionated, a blog site called Being Outside Cricket got in touch with me and they said, Would you like to write an article about you know about the hundred and and about county cricket? And and I said, No, I don't think so. But then he persuaded me, and you know, I I'm a terrible one for just not immediately going for it, but I've totally changed that now. I learned how to say yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I wrote an article and then they asked me to do another one, and and then the cricketer got in touch and said, Do you want to do a you know article? And so it kind of it it kind of went from there. And the the really big deal for me was uh David Brooke asking me to go to Barbados. That was in January 2019 when England were playing Barbados, well playing the West Indies and the first test was Barbados, yeah. And he rang me up and said, Do you wanna do you wanna come uh and well you know of course I'd w I'd want to go to Barbados, but yeah, I had to pay for my flight, but uh he got me accreditation and they paid for my hotel. And I got to go along. My work were very kind and said, Oh yeah, you must do that. So they let me go and um Incredible. It was just a week, and suddenly I found myself in the media box. Uh you know, it is Fibra in the Heat, Miles Jupp Fibra in the Heat experience of finding yourself in the media block thinking, What the what the hell because I think we both know David Brooke, you know, he's he's full of enthusiasm, yep, but uh not really, he wasn't very straightforward in what I was doing out there. I just think he wanted someone to go with basically.
SPEAKER_00But fortunately, at this point, I like the way you said a minute ago, I'd learnt to say yes by this point. Yes, yes. Do you want to go to Barbados?
SPEAKER_01Uh yes, yes, and I I was with like all the sky people, and um it just everybody was there, and it was suddenly like, oh my god, I'm in the media box. It's the first time I'd ever been in a media box. And I was interviewing or helping interview Gladstone Small, I was helping interview Jonathan Agnew, yeah, uh Darren Gough, yeah, you know, and I was in the box with Roland Butcher and and fantastic people. So it was uh a really amazing experience, and I got to meet Sir Garfield Sabres as well. Wow. So it was just one of those pinch you moments. Oh, and then I also was with Vic Marks, I met Vic Marks, who is now a really good friend of mine, and I love Vic. Yeah, but he he kind of looked after me while I was out there and we did stuff together, so it was just brilliant. What an experience. Yeah, and it was an amazing experience, really, really amazing. I mean, exhausting and terrifying in some ways, but really, really, yeah, because I had no idea what I was doing or what I was even whether whether I'd get back or but I did, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well you're here to tell the tale, thankfully.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so that kind of moved moved me on. But then the same year, 2019, was a lot of talk about the hundred um competition, and there was a group of us on Twitter that were really concerned about what it would do to county cricket, and we kind of kept chatting, and then we decided we'd we'd do something, and we we decided to bring out a magazine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh I said, well, let's call it County Cricket Matters. And um yeah, could play on words anything. No, it's excellent. Um and we brought a magazine in in November of that year. I was an editor for that one, and it was basically just loads of articles damning the hundred. And the second one I said after that I said, look, I I don't want to just do a magazine that's full of you know just destroying something or being negative about something. Let's be positive and let's well you know let's champion the the county game and and uh write articles about that. So so the people that we did the magazine with first they want they were more militant and wanted to be more anti the hundred. So we kind of split and I became editor and and Jeremy Lonsdale, who's a fantastic writer, he became our deputy editor, and it's us two really that have gone from November 2019, and we're now on our I'm just working on edition 27. So there you are.
SPEAKER_00It's it's mad, isn't it? I I often ask people about their careers, and I sort of say, think back to the start of your career, and we were you aware of kind of having a plan, what did you set out to achieve? Did you have some sort of mission? I mean, uh was this it for you, or is that too glib a take?
SPEAKER_01I didn't have any, I mean, I wouldn't have even dreamt that it would still be going seven years later. I mean, the idea that I'm still there doing this editorial, it was a it was kind of like a a thing where we thought, well, we'll do a few. Yeah. And it just so what happened is I just it it build momentum, and then I started getting subscribers, and then once you get subscribed, you kind of have to go in because they're paying for a year's worth of yeah, you know, and you can't suddenly go, oh, I'll get rid of that. So yeah, and and now I've got like 1,300 subscribers, and um yeah, and and uh also people that buy individually, but I don't know why they do that because it's a lot more expensive that way, but they are, and you know, uh I've had I've been so lucky, it've been amazing writers have written for me Duncan Hamilton, Vic Marks, um just just so many Paul Edwards, uh and they've done it all for free. Yeah, and Jack Russell's been amazing, he's given me any picture I want that I've run. And yeah, and all the photographers as well. I mean, I don't know, they've given me stuff, and and yeah, I know it's hard as a photographer to get money for your work, so they've been lovely too. So I've just been really like and all the people that have written, I countless people, but it's also I mean, I've had some really good writers, but I've also had some novice writers that I've kind of given them a uh platform to write something and and then maybe go on. I've had a couple that have gone on and done stuff, so fantastic, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's paying a bit back, I suppose, isn't it? Yeah. Cause because I think my observation looking from the outside in, I suppose, is is that you've you've built a real kind of community. I mean, you you talked about raising your profile when you went on first went onto Gorilla, and then you did those other things that you've spoken about there, and you've got a hell of a following. I I sort of look at your sort of numbers and followers and subscribers and all the rest of it. And it's really, you know, it's really strong, and there's a common cause and whatever. And to what degree do you feel a sense of responsibility for this thing that you've sort of built? Because you're you're no, because it's genuinely Annie, you're a you're something of a figurehead now for this movement, let's call it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it it is funny. I was at the uh at Somerset last week, and I was just sat down and a man came up and shook my hand and he said, Congratulations, and I said, What for? For everything, you know, and I just kind of thought that was really lovely. You know, everything you do kind of thing, and it was just like I get a lot of people sort of saying that, and it is a sense of responsibility, you know. People are always saying, Don't know, you know, there was what one woman who said to me that I've done more for counter cricket than anyone. I I don't I don't I think that's slightly exaggerated. Well, but it does feel a bit like people are putting their dreams and stuff onto me a little bit and and saying, you know, go on, go out there and do it. And and and so that is a sense of responsibility, but it's also a really, really lovely feeling. And yeah, it's it's tough. It I mean county cricket is not a fashionable thing and it's not it's not going in the direction that the E T B or cricket wanting to go in and so I'm kind of yeah uh you could say uh I mean I've been called many things um dinosaur is definitely one of them and I think yeah but you know it I I quite like I'd quite like a dinosaur um and they were around for a long time you know they they they're very yeah kids love dinosaurs don't they exactly and yeah traditionalist yeah I am but I'm I'm really not a traditional traditionalist I think that's kind of where I'm different. I'm you know you don't get that many women campaigning against uh you know uh uh about the men's county game so I'm more obvious than other people because I'm a a woman campaigning against it um and I think I was saying to you the other day that I you know one of the things I I am open-minded I can see that there are positives about all time I I mean even franchise cricket which I really do not like I can see why people would like it and I can understand but and there's no need to be negative to them about it but you can stand up for your own thing. And what I really can't stand is when people are really negative about county cricket without without the intelligence or or or really knowing anything about it or coming along or you know so yeah it's it is a responsibility I and yeah I hope I'm not responsible for the end of cricket.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I will be there we'll talk we'll talk in in a couple of years' time just see what you've got to with that little plan. I want you to talk a bit more about you please and and and I also want you promise me that you're going to park your modesty at the door because I want you having had a high degree of success with what you've been doing over the past few years I want you to think about what has driven that success for you. What is it about you? What are the skills and characteristics and knowledge and talents that have allowed you to succeed where others perhaps wouldn't what are your magic what are your magic tokens?
SPEAKER_01I mean I kind of talked about that like um like I will if on social media I will I won't just tell someone they're stupid and and you know I will say well yeah I see your point but there's this and this or whatever. So I think as I was also saying I'm unique in in terms of there's not loads of women out there that are are champion it. What else is there? I read so much um so I have read so many cricket books and I know so much about the history of cricket now and and I've really really studied it hard and I've was something that I hadn't hadn't really looked into massively before. So I'm on a panel for the book awards so I get sent all the new books and I I read them all and I think you can learn so much from uh from historical books and and current books and I think that you've got to keep your yourself up to date with what's happening and and I try to be open minded. I do find some of it hard I'm not I I'm not a businesswoman. Okay so when people start talking about money and yeah that sort of thing I i it's not it's not my thing. So I'm I I if I ruled the world it probably would collapse but it would be fun and it would be nice and people would be nice to each other.
SPEAKER_00Have a fun time on the way down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah because I essentially I think what's important is to me county cricket is all about community and looking after people and you know playing a a game that everyone enjoys and and and just being part of that great setup. And to other people it's about creating um superstars and and to me that's nobody's a superstar because everybody's human and everybody's just like everybody else. So you know so if anyone ever sort of says oh well you know they deserve all this money and I think well yeah but you know no more than anyone else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah it's well I've said this a few times before elite sport it's kind of by its very nature is not fair.
SPEAKER_01No no I mean and and I think this is the thing the thing I'm trying to move away from county cricket because the problem with county cricket of course is that it's it's very much old boys' network you know um private schools generally but I think we could change that and I think that is changing and I think it it if someone's in there constantly sort of saying well there's this and why aren't we doing this and what's that then those things are changing and I think actually something like the hundred is far more elitist just picking out the odd eleven for eight teams of you know superstars. So the next question I and I think but then like I said I'm not a businesswoman.
SPEAKER_00Yeah well there is there is that yeah no the next question and I'm sure you've talked you've talked about some of this but every story as well as having a hero you're the hero what would you consider to be you don't have to name names unless you particularly want to but what are the what are the sort of types of people the structures or the barriers that you've had to overcome or the prevailing ideas it might be that you've had to overcome to get to to where you are and have the success that you've had okay so I'm gonna waive the woman's card a little bit because I grew up in the 80s where there's a lot of you know it was a era well Jimmy Savile's any and and um in fact I was wolfess of that by Jimmy Savile that sort of era and then you go to cricket which was very much as you heard because I was thrown out when I was found out I was a girl was very much a male dominated world and I'd go along and I'd go along to cricket and someone would say well who's your boyfriend and who are you watching who do you fancy but you get hardened to it you get used to it and then you come into the media and you have an awful lot of white old males that they know every woman and making your way in you right really don't know much but you've very pretty love you know you're you kind of you have to live through that a little bit and and it it hasn't ever bothered me because it's kind of uh because I grew up in the era that it was it was very much that way anyway.
SPEAKER_01But but you kind of when you're trying to write or or do things that are very much career based and you are proud of them and and then people are derogatory about what you say or do or because you're a woman. And and Sue Redfern for example who's the female umpa you know very much if she made a mistake it was because she was a woman and not because she'd made a mistake and it's very much that sort of thing and it and it is getting better. It's getting so much better. I can't I mean I can't tell you how different it is now. And uh those are things that you have to deal with because whatever I do if I do something wrong or something badly it's it's mostly because I'm a woman and and one of the things I really wanted to do when I started writing and talking about cricket was I wanted to show that there are women that there are women in the world and there's a lot of us that know about cricket and and do understand and and do get it. And that was one of the biggest things I wanted to do. So if someone then undermines you by saying you know yeah love you know then it kind of it's a really really tough one. So I'm not making a big deal about it because it's c just been kind of part of your life but that was probably one of the biggest it's very but it's also having said that it's also been a real positive because people do listen to you because you're different than other people and it has been good for me. And also I mean I there's no way I would be doing BBC third voice if I wasn't a woman. They're doing that because they're they're trying to even out the um diversity and stuff. So so in some ways it's a really really good time to be a woman talking about cricket. If I was probably 20 years younger it would be even better but there you are.
SPEAKER_00Well amen to that I can certainly buy into the idea of being 20 years younger couldn't wey I don't want to be 20 years younger though Paul. Well there's nothing you can do about it even if you did no you're right. Again you you touched on some of this but I want to ask you a bit more about your kind of beliefs and your values. I want to know to what extent you think you live your life and your career by certain values and any behaviours or values that you particularly treasure.
SPEAKER_01Okay so one of the things from my mother and father was very much we never ever had money um and it was always trying to make ends meet and do stuff. So money has never ever been important to me and I think um as so I I think that just carries on as in I I do county cricket messines because I I care about county cricket and I think that's very much what my whole life has been like you know if I could if I could be anyone or or anyone's my hero it would be my mother who was just the best person ever um the most unjudgmental person ever. And I think those the values of just caring about community caring about other people are I I'm probably one of those people that other people despise that I would happily pay more tax and to help fund the NHS I would happily you know do all of those things because it I I feel like we should work all together and I I don't understand why the world isn't that way inclined. So if I get people asking asking me stuff I I don't know I mean I never asked for any money or or stuff so I'm you know no those would be my values just to to to make the world a bit more caring and I don't think it is very caring. It certainly isn't at the moment well I I was interested to hear you talking about how much you read particularly about cricket and um I want you to talk about the book that you wrote which is Cricket Save My Life how did that come about and what was the process like Cricket changed my life not saved my life oh that's that's bad see that's just bad that's just bad writing bad writing down for me sloppy and of and of Reddit cricket changed Cricket changed by life sorry yeah cricket changed my life and it's 11 personal stories so Catherine Brunt yeah when she stopped playing cricket she was interviewed and she said that one of the things I heard her say was um if if it wasn't for cricket I don't think I'd still be alive and I remember listening to her interview and thinking there must be so many people who do feel like that and uh so I started to have a look and and and look at a few people's cricketing experiences and stuff and I thought there must be so many and I wrote to Stephen Chalk who is a wonderful writer cricket writer and uh uh he was a publisher and I wrote to him and I said I've got this idea what do you think and he said yeah that sounds like you know my idea was to have eleven obviously my cricket team eleven different people where cricket had changed their lives and I said I want to find uh and write about these people and he he suggested he said it was a really good idea and he suggested I interviewed a guy called Walid Khan and so he gave me his details and I um messed I well I I sent an email to Walid and he got back to me and I went up to interview him in Birmingham I remember and he's a young lad he was 21 when I interviewed him but he has an amazing story. He was a Pakistani lad who um at the age of 12 was in his school and they were uh there was a terrorist attack and 158 kids were killed on that day and he was shot six times in the face and survived I've no idea how he managed just so I mean just incredible but he came over to England to be have reconstructive surgery he had to have so much and his his story is just amazing because he he managed to get back and and and cricket was a major major love of his life and it was a really big influence on him getting better. The uh Pakistani cricket team came and visited him and and some guy in Birmingham opened his nets to him and said you can come anytime and he'd hobble on his crack and and then he he started to be able to walk and he's an incredible lad and he went the reason Stephen Short knew about him was he went on to test match special you know the lunchtime interviews that Jonathan Agnew does then so when I'd written it up uh I sent it to Steve and he said this is great and he sent it on to it and I've got a really nice I got a really nice mix of I think I've got about five women in it um I've got young and old I've got like uh Roland Butcher the first black guy to play for England Bumble who who came from a very poor background I've got just lots of lots of different people and uh and to do the interviews to put it together and then just to write it up I I I enjoyed the whole process. I really did and I think these people are really inspirational. So uh I've uh some of them were just incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it's it's an amazing book and I I think I I wrote to you after um your book launch where I acquired a copy and said and I'm gonna say it on here as well that you write really beautifully and with no trace of ego and it's a brilliant read and everyone should read it. Cricket changed my life everyone should uh should get a copy of that they absolutely should and they shall after hearing this they will of course um I like to ask people about happy endings Annie and I'm not talking about the end of a career or whatever. I'm talking about when all when everything goes right when when you're on song when all of your talents and abilities come together what does that world look like?
SPEAKER_01I would like to carry on writing. I'd like to write more books. I mean not that it's a very lucrative thing but it's a very I don't know it's very cathartic and it's very I don't know there's something really wholesome about writing. So I would like to just uh disappear into sort of the countryside somewhere and keep writing about cricket and maybe even not cricket eventually but it's a really I I find it a really just a great way of setting your day up. So for me I would like to just continue doing that at some point but at the moment I'm happy to be juggling around with my magazine and my commentary and my you know various bits and pieces but eventually I would like to stop all of those 'cause it's very time consuming and I think I'm probably better at writing than I am doing any of the other things.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So what what do you think is coming next in in both the near and far future?
SPEAKER_01For me.
SPEAKER_00For you.
SPEAKER_01Well i if county cricket continues as it is as they say it will until twenty twenty nine then I will continue the magazine and probably until then. And then if someone else wants to take it on I might see if I can you know pass it on and and uh move that on and that would be fine for me and I'd just uh well I would like to do possibly more newspaper articles but you know we'll see might try and write for wisdom or night watchmen or something like that. But yeah those sort of things I'm not particularly ambitious and I'm I'm very happy just to poodle along.
SPEAKER_00Well we should watch this space and what we'll we'll take your family and other loved ones as as kind of red that they're important in your life. Outside of that I often ask people about their own passions and hobbies and interests but I mean you've made a career out of your massive passion but do you have anything outside of that career and outside of cricket that kind of keeps you occupied?
SPEAKER_01Well definitely reading I'm I'm dabbling a little bit in trying to learn to paint. I I I think I've just you know yeah so I've got some watercolours I've done a few bits and pieces and I and it's you know it's just little bits I I've obviously been influenced by um Jack I was gonna say did he give you a few pointers no no I I I wouldn't dare admit to him that I'm trying to do anything and for me my favourite thing in the world is eating a nice meal and drinking a nice bottle of wine and reading a good book or or watching a good something on the telly or listening to something that's well amen amen to all of that.
SPEAKER_00And I I also I I often ask people for a podcast recommendation but since you're such a big reader perhaps you'd like to swap that for a book recommendation.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah no that it's so hard isn't it if anyone ever asks me who my favourite author would be I would say Graham Green's probably my favourite author because I think he's written so many different books and so all of them are good. I don't think of any of his books that aren't good. But I read quite a lot of nonfiction as well and one of my favourite ever books was The Worst Journey in the world it's called and it was by Cherry Garrard and it's yeah it's about Scott's journey to the Antarctic and and and just because he was on it Cherry Garrard was on it and if I had to keep one book it would be that one.
SPEAKER_00Wow oh I f I feel like I'm on desert islands especially with my desert island yeah my background well thank you thank you for those recommendations thank you even more for sharing those lovely stories of your brilliant career your remarkable career and isn't the very best of luck with the next chapter thank you Paul join me next time on the Amber moment when we'll be hearing another story of another remarkable career. Until then