Episode 9: Interview with Susanna Peace Lovell

Phil and Shannon on a Mother's Day Episode speak with Susanna Peace Lovell-- Susanna is a contributing Author of the Book: Suddenly Brave Together and she is the Co-Host of the Brave Together Podcast: Support and Community for Caregiving Parents. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Hello. Happy early Mother's Day, or this might air on Mother's Day. We're not sure. Hi, Shannon. Happy, happy Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Good to have you. Um we got a special guest uh today that I'm really excited for. That uh gracious that she spent her Saturday even giving us this time of day. Uh Susanna Peace Lovell is here with us. She wrote an amazing book. Uh she's on a podcast. That's fantastic. Uh Susanna, nice to meet you. How? How are you? How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Hi guys. Hi, Phil and Shannon. Hi. Um I love spending my Saturday morning with you because honestly, like every day is the same. For me, every day is the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Every minute of the day is kind of the same. Um, so yeah, I'm I'm doing really well. I'm I'm uh chatting with you from sort of overcast, uh normally sunny, but Los Angeles, California. I feel like the month of May, we kind of have like the May gray.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah. Moves into the June gloom, but only like the first part of the day. And then it's just sunshine and roses.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I thought it was, I thought it was April showers bringing May flowers. Is that not the thing anymore? Did I miss that boat?

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Well, probably except for we don't get showers because we are, you know, very deserty. But uh, you know, it's every once in a while we get some some rain, and then Los Angelinos have no idea what to do with themselves when there's a little drizzle.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Uh it's nothing different in central Texas. People can't drive, like they won't leave their house when it rains. So it's uh Really? Oh, it's they can't drive, it's it's it's crazy out here.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, we get like the flash floods. Um, not too much in this right where we live, but yeah, like if we have a storm, everyone's acting like we're gonna be locked in a house for days.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah. Um go to the shelf, go, go to the store and just empty it out and all that fun stuff. It's great.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Right. 72 rolls of toilet paper later. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You gotta stock up.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

We all we're all spoiled from the COVID stuff. It's crazy. Um, so listen, I want to ask you, what's your what's what's a perfect Mother's Day for you? What's what's tomorrow looking like? How how are you anything exciting that you think that's gonna happen tomorrow that you're like what would be a perfect day for you starting out, ending, anything fun? Just being with your kids?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Okay, once again, every day same for me. But if I could, you know, lean into what a perfect mother day would be, like an ideal mother day, mother, mother's day. Mother day, singular, it's fine. Um, yeah, we can all be included. Um, the I would say ideally, um, I'm not with my kid. So I and and that is happening. She's actually gonna go with her father tonight and come back uh probably midday tomorrow, which is great. I am not a huge fan of the pomp and circumstance of doing, you know, the the spa day and this. I don't like crowds, I don't like waiting in lines, I don't like um being I I am a social person, but I'm also an introvert, if that makes sense. Like I I can hang with sort of anyone and have a great time, but I am never by myself. Like I am never alone, if that makes sense. Even even when my daughter's at school, I'm you know, I'm with clients, I'm working, I'm interacting, and I just like to have my house to myself for just even a few hours, and that will happen tomorrow, and that's gonna be delicious and amazing. Um, I have a backyard with lots of fruit blossoming. So I have the avocado tree, they're growing, the the pomegranates are growing, um, the lemon tree. So I'll sit outside with my journal and um have a cup of tea and just sit in the silence of nature in Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Is that what you want tomorrow, Shannon?

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Just to be left alone and be away be the I mean, you know, I wouldn't be opposed.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah, okay. I like it. That's the we go good, we'll give good ideas uh of just what to do.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

No, I mean it would just be nice to have like a moment, just you know, a moment myself or you know two hours. Well, I'll take anything I can get. But yes. Right, right. Let's start with right.

unknown 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Oh boy. Uh Susannah, you wrote uh an incredible book. And let me tell you, I when when I first when we reached out to kind of talk about doing you joined the podcast, I'm always like, well, what's what's the story and what's what are we gonna do? You know, because I'm always interested in hearing everyone's kind of journey in life and stuff. But when I picked up your book, I gotta be honest, I was blown away because it was so fitting for what this podcast is. Meaning that like you literally wrote a book exactly like the idea of this podcast. Uh, you wrote it for like you wrote these great letters to to people to let them know that they're not alone. And you let it they that everyone wrote their own letter and to explain like kind of what they went through and telling these great detailed stories and great, but you know what I mean? Like just just very, very in-depth stories that letting everyone know that that when you hear these diagnoses of what goes on, and and every story was was different than the next, but in the same way they were kind of all the same and how they how they dealt with it and how they were brave. So uh I gotta say, I really commend you for writing that book. That what made you write that book?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, so I um so writing for me has always been like instant catharsis my whole life. So I, you know, started writing in a journal when I was 13 years old. And I think that journal was a Hello Kitty journal with a little lock on it. Nice, um, with a key, right? Uh and I just felt just a just an immediate like release in terms of like emotions and feelings that I was able to um express for the first time um in my life, really, without feeling like I had to edit myself. And so I just continued that process. And um, two years ago, when I turned 50, I um wanted to commemorate that milestone with an offering. And so that's when I published my first book, which is my memoir called Your True Self is Enough, Lessons Learned on My Journey Parenting a Child with Autism. And then from there, as I've continued to write, I was really interested in um I'm a very, you know, I'm very, very involved in the organization We Are Brave Together, which is a very supportive community for, you know, taking care of the mental health and wellness of caregiving moms everywhere across the globe. And so the executive and founder direct uh the founder and executive director, Jessica Pate, and I met um right before the pandemic in 2020. And so I just was so excited about her mission um in providing, you know, resources and support for caregiving moms and community and just a place where we could feel less alone. And so I started running the connection circles, the support groups for the Los Angeles area. Um we had to, you know, do them virtually, obviously, through COVID, but now I host them, you know, once a month in my backyard and have like, you know, 20 moms, 24 moms, whoever shows up. And we are just, it's such a fantastic feeling to be with your people and to just not have to explain anything. Even if we all come from different walks of life, we are all navigating um, you know, kiddos who are require extreme caregiving, um, for lack of a better way to describe it. So we are brave together came out with their first analogy uh a couple of years ago or two years ago. And this new anthology called Suddenly Brave Together um is a bunch of letters to caregiving moms at a defining moment in their lives. And so the the call for writers for this anthology was moms who have kids, children, young adult children, um, ages 18 and over. And my daughter is now 19. Um, she'll be 20 next month. And so it really was like a love letter to the moms who have just received a diagnosis for their child, whether their child is two, three, twelve. Sometimes, you know, people don't get their official diagnosis until later on in life that has happened, or you get a new diagnosis, or there's a right. And um, it really was sort of like, you know, let's share our stories. Like, where are we now? Um, what did we wish we knew back then that we that we that we know now? Um, and let's share that uh with these moms who feel like, you know, I don't know about you guys, but when my daughter, her name is Arizona, was um first diagnosed with you know, first of all, she has multiple diagnoses, but you know, when I we started realizing there's something going on, um it was kind of like deer in the headlights, and I don't, you know, uh I don't know. It was like 17 years ago when she was diagnosed with autism. She was two years old, and I did not know one other family living with autism, not one. And I'm here in California, like we have a very big bustling population, and I still didn't know. I mean, I'm sure I did, I just didn't know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

You didn't know what it was, and that that's exactly the same thing for us. It was the same thing not knowing. So you're absolutely right on that. And then it's not, it's not, it's where to start. And then when you read these stories of I I love the emotion that they put into it because it's it's when they when they tell you their emotion about it, it's one thing I've I've heard from someone, and I don't know who said it, but they were like, you listen to people with who have the same or who go through the same kind of things as you more than you would a doctor or more than you would like a school thing. You know what I mean? So when you hear stories like this, you're just like, oh my gosh, like I still understand what they what they were feeling at that time because you're going through it now. And all these stories, the ones that I read were exactly like that. We're just like, oh my gosh. And then the the feeling that they're going through. I mean, Shannon, what what was your what was one that you read that you really just kind of got you down to?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

I mean, there was kind of like the same theme throughout where it was kind of like, you know, letters saying that at this time, you know, early in your diagnosis, it's okay to feel grief and sorrow, and it's okay to and they can coexist with joy and happiness at the same time, which is just so true. Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

It's a great idea, and it it's so cool that you did that because it it I didn't when when I when I saw this and I read this, I was like, this is so perfect because this is all we wanted to do for this podcast was to tell people about have people tell their stories that don't get to be heard typically. And then I want to share their stories because hearing their stories makes things different for you in the sense of you understand what people go through, number one, uh inclusion. And then number two is that you really you really uh learn new things every day from talking to people that you never typically never do, you know? It's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Yes, yeah, and it's so supportive, it's so energizing. I mean, even you know, if I'm in the doldrums, right? Because you know, I uh try to stay as positive as I can and I try to be grateful for so many things and I do affirmations and I write in my journal and all of these things, but sometimes life just takes the takes the breath out of you, you know. I mean, and yesterday I had such a funky day. It was it was like this low grade depressive day, and I and nothing was different, you know. I just was feeling the weight of like oh my goodness, I've been doing this for nearly 20 years, you know, and and seasons change and things change, situations change, circum circumstances, circumstances change, you know. Um, but sometimes it just so I so you know I knew today was gonna be so great because I would be talking to my peeps, yeah, and um maybe throw an F bomb out there or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah we we we do all the time in this podcast, but it's it's wildly frowned upon, but I like it. I think it just keeps it honest.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Yeah. Sometimes it's the old it's the best descriptor. I do that all the time in the meetings.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I'm just like, fuck, what are we doing today? You know, it's just like it just happens sometimes like that. And then it's it's it happens. We we do like a weekly meeting with Carson, a Tuesday meeting. And then it's so funny that like we'll we'll go through like the week of how we had, and then like I I learned that like sometimes Shannon's Thursday was way worse than my Friday. Like, and it's like and then we tell the stories from like different perspectives to this, uh to the uh to Carson's uh ABA. And uh I'll tell you what, it's just like the the polar opposite stories of what we have for it is is crazy because again, everyone's emotions and stuff is different to how they're feeling and how they go through it and navigating this, and so it's it's it's it's a relief, not a relief, but it's amazing to hear you say that after even that long, you still have the days like that and the and the weeks like that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 14:11

Yeah, and I and I think that um the hindsight, you know, which is always 2020, is that now my toolbox is bigger. So I have more resources at the ready for me to, you know, hold on to, grab onto for myself so that I can find some sort of calm and peace and regulation because hello, we need that too. And then I'm able to best support Arizona, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

So, but it is like a daily, it's a daily question that I have to ask myself. It's like, what does Susanna need today? You know, what does Susan Susanna need within the next hour or the next two hours? Do I need to, you know, turn off my phone for the rest of the day? Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

You know what I'm saying? Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, you have to basically make sure that and then Shannon, what do you what do you do you like hearing stuff like that where like it's yeah, does it build your confidence a lot?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah, it makes me feel a bit better. Like for me, I feel like I um I don't know. I feel like I I don't really do a lot of self-care, I guess. I feel like when I do have a lone time, when Carson's an ABA, I feel like I'm always trying to like catch up on like the daily chores and everything that I've missed. That I don't really sit down too much and you know, kind of take care of myself. And then sometimes I do sit down and read a book, and then I get, you know, too into it, and then I've ignored everything that I was supposed to be doing. So just, you know, I've well it's overwhelming.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

It's like I said, it's a balance, and that's it's uh and I work from home and then basically it comes into uh, you know, and then I, you know, I there's days I even I even apologize to her because I'll come out of the house like or come out of the office like a tyrant because like you know, I'm stressed from work, and then it's like Shannon, did we do this? Did we do this? And I'm thinking a million things and I'm just messing her whole day up. And it's it's never it's really it's it's a tough thing, and I I I'm always very apologetic for it because it's it's it's day-to-day stress that sometimes it just leads into this, you know. And um I always make sure that you know she has time to herself and and time, you know, that she can kind of work for and she's not work for a time that she she uh she can do as much as she wants and where she wants to go. You know, and that's hey, maybe you take take Nolan out and go do some fun things with him, and I'll stay home with Carson and do some stuff. And you know, and but then I think sometimes she gets so shut down where she doesn't even want to leave the house and like she'll she feels it more comfortable just to be home with Carson, right? I mean it happens more often than not.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah, yeah, I uh it's so understandable. I absolutely get that.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, it's just cool hearing that, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

It's life like life is tricky. No, I mean, I you know, I people are like, Susanna, how are you so calm and how you know, you seem like you have your shit together? Yeah, and I am like, but but that's what I present to you, okay? Because uh, you know, you are not, you know, some of my girlfriends know, um who are part of my inner circle that are just here when there are the the meltdowns. I mean, meltdowns from a 19-year-old is a whole nother level, you guys. Do you know what I'm saying? And um, you know, when they're three, four, five, six, you can, I mean, I was able to wrap my arms around Arizona and just hold her steady. I cannot do that anymore. Um, and this little, this little nasty girl the other day, we were driving. She decides to stick her middle finger in my face while we're driving. Um, and she meant it. It wasn't too funny. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? She wasn't trying to make a joke, but in my face, and I'm, you know, navigating traffic. Los Angeles is a beast when it comes to traffic. Like there's always some sort of construction and a lane closed and people are honking. It's just not a friendly, fun, friendly driving place, right? And so I'm already trying to navigate, and then I have this finger in my face, and I just, you know, slapped her arm away. Yeah. And then um, my daughter, who is speaking, right? Who is verbal, um, is like, I'm going to call child services. And I was like, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

They're going to take you away. Um, and you know, one of one of the things that is very sort of a special need, but not like an official like diagnosis, diagnosis, is that she has crazy food allergies, right? So I'm like, um, I'm not sure they're gonna know what your food allergies are, but okay, call them. They're gonna take you.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah, the grass isn't always greener, you know.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Bye bye. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

I'm sure anyway.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

That's just a little snapshot of like the you know, what can happen in any given moment. It's always unexpected. I never know.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

It's you know, I mean, just just just now the Carson just ran out the front, he just loped out the front door when we were sitting here talking. So, I mean, that's literally it's literally our lives every day. Like, it's it's usually we do this podcast at like late at night. So uh Carson's asleep, and then now it's like we're having we're having our oldest son just yeah, just keep him in the living room and just hang out with him and then yeah, that's a lot of responsibility for attending.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

He can do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I believe in them.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Like just, you know, one room. Keep him entertained.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Uh Susanna, how did you get all these great people to write these these amazing letters? Did you have to like, did you did you meet these people out of the blue or what where did they come from?

SPEAKER_03 19:58

No, no, no, no. I mean, all credit goes to We Are Brave Together, the organization. Um, so yeah, no, they there was a call for um, you know, caregiving moms of children 18 and over to submit. So there was a lengthy process in terms of people submitting their stories, and then there was a selection process of you know who would be chosen to be included within this anthology. So um what I did was I submitted for, you know, writing a letter, and um, I had to submit, we basically had to submit a writing sample. Um, and then from there, they chose 30 of us to each take on a chapter. Um, and then we were, you know, they, you know, we had writing coaches, we had sessions, we had sort of a prompt, basic prompt, but but other than that, it was really like free-flowing. Um, we we had a word count and things like that. But I um I love that. And what was so great is I didn't know I know some of the other moms who are who are the writers in this anthology, but others I had never met before. Um, you know, this represents mothers from all over the country. And um it's, you know, we had our book launch party in uh Los Angeles last weekend, and actually a few of the the writers, the moms came in. Oh, and I shouldn't say all over the country because also there was a mom from Canada, and um it was just so amazing. And again, we all come from such different walks of life, like culturally and socially, and so many things. But yet, you know, there's this through line, this connective string of like, I see you, I get you, I, you know, we are the same. We we don't have to, you know, you know, what's really great about the We Are Brave Together community, and especially in the Connection circles that I run here in Los Angeles. It's like there's no sharing. I mean, there's no comparing when we're sharing. It's just my hard is hard right now. And this is what my hard looks like. And my good is this, you know? Um, and it's just so nice to feel in a space where there's like no judgment.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

And not feeling ashamed because I, you know, I've been feeling that I mean, my whole life, just my upbringing and everything else, but like certainly since I've become a mother to this child who shows up differently in this world and in a way that is without apology. Um, it's without filter. Even um before she learned how to stick the middle finger up. Um, she was also just, she was also like, she would just, she never sat still.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

So so you saying that Carson just ran out the front door, I was like, I started laughing. Not because it's funny. No, it's not funny, it's dangerous. There's a safety risk here.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

And I mean, I can't tell you how many times I had to pull aside the closest cashier or worker at Target or the supermarket and be like, can you post a PA, right? Um, to to help me find my child. Because if I let go of her hand, because you would never sit in the shopping cart, right? And I have to run my errands, right? I um have stuff to do. Um, and her father and I divorced when she was seven, seven or eight, and she's been, you know, she lives with me full time. So it's like I have to do these things. You have to come with me.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

You gotta do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

And so if I just let go of her hand for one second, doot doep. Like, I don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

How far she'll go, where if she's gonna come back. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

No. And um, you know, I was at the farmer's market, I was at somewhere with a girlfriend the other day, and there was this um dad, it looked like a dad who had this contraption tied to his son. It wasn't like one of those backpack leash backpack things, it was like something else that was more supportive. And the son, you know, was kind of, and my girlfriend was like, Oh, that's interesting. They still do that. And I was like, no, take a look, take a look, right? He's about to like you could tell that he was there was something going on with him, right? And you could tell that he was just like lunging forward, he wasn't that steady in his walking. And so I was like, no, no, no, take take a look. Let's let's have a moment, right? Because there is something going on, and I just, you know, immediately had so much compassion for that dad. Um, probably getting all kinds of like side eyes, right? From from folks, like, why are you treating your kid like an animal? No, I'm keeping my kid safe to the best of your ability.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

To the best of my ability.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

So we do the same lens, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Different ones. And we do a we do a wagon for Carson that like we've we've had to upgrade because again, it's the same thing. Like I think now he's to the point where he doesn't want to even be in the wagon, right? Does it feel that way to you? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

But you know, we have to have it. It's like a little like safe space for him to go sit down instead of running away, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Um because we went, even we went into the zoo, like I think that's why he hated the zoo last weekend, is because when we were pushing him through it, he wanted to get out and walk. And we're like, well, dude, you're not if you get out and walk, it's fine. But the problem is like you might go wander this way or this way, and then it's like then get him back in, it's a whole meltdown. I'd rather just set the tempo of just going here. He's gonna be in here in this wagon, keep him here, keep him safe, and then we're gonna go through it. And then when we get out, then you can walk around. And then you we think of like, yeah, the judging eyes of seeing, wow, that's a pretty big seven-year-old in a wagon, and then uh, you know, and then and I don't I don't really care personally, but I mean, um, I know Shennan obviously feels differently. Hey, Phil, push the wagon today or do this, and it's and I'll do it. I don't care. I mean it's it's fine, but it's it's for his safety alone because again, just like now, it's like his m his his brain and body are just on two different waves, like sometimes where he's just telling him fight or flight. Bye. I'm seeing, I'm leaving I'll be see you later. And it's like this is his first safety. I don't I I would love to carry, but I'd love to be able to walk with him all the time. But when he has that meltdown and I have to pick him up over my shoulder and then carry him around that way for an hour, the wagon just seems to make more sense, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Amen, Shannon.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

I mean, yes, and and but it well, and hopefully you won't have to carry him over your shoulder when he's 19, 28. Exactly. Yes, yeah, but I can't guarantee that, folks. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Um, I'll take the middle finger in my face. That's fine. He can if he does that, that's that's I'm actually welcoming that. That that would be that would be I would like, you know what, man, like I get it. You're frustrated. That's fine. Just don't do it. Yeah, you can't do it. I'm driving, but you know, gotta pay attention a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

No, I mean, listen, it was totally appropriate. Yeah, you know, she was upset and frustrated and annoyed.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

And in LA traffic, it's it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

And the traffic and I'm the safe space and you know, all of all of the above. So, like there is a little bit of a win there too, in that that was appropriate communication. I, you know, uh I just I it was unexpected, yeah, I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

So yeah, I took it personally.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

I should not have taken it personally, but I just I didn't have enough enough juice in my own tank that day to just let it go because I let a lot of things go. Um, you have to, you have to brush it off. Um and you know, I mean, some of the things that come out of her mouth are just daggers, but also sometimes really funny. Yeah. And so I have to like, you know, keep a straight face of like, hmm, it was really unexpected. Yeah. What would happen if you said that and it wasn't just me here? You know what I mean? That kind of thing. Like I'm trying to anyway, but I mean it keeps us on our toes. And um I guess. I guess. Yeah. I mean, Carson. But it's tough to write about.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

It's right, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

It wasn't Carson just yelling at he yells at you every day when you when you come home, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah. So when we get home, he's in the backseat in his, you know, in his booster seat. And when as soon as I turn the car off, he's like gesturing to me, ah, and then gesturing to the door, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, because he wants me to get up and let him out of his, you know, seat so that he can play in the car for a little bit. That's kind of our thing after work. And I took, I actually caught it on video the other day, sent it to Phil, and I was like, he's yelling at me, but he's saying exactly what he wants, like clear communication.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I I I applauded it. I said, good. Well, listen, that's you gotta let him know that he's he's doing it right, but it just again just tile dial it down just a little bit. Yeah, just a little bit more. That's all it is, you know. Yeah, or not, or just just yell back at him. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Just you know, the amount of patience we've had to learn over the years is like a meaning.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah, it's there's his feet, his feet slapping now. Speak of the devil. Hi, Carson. Oh, hi. Oh, he wants us, so that's thank you for touching the microphone. Appreciate it. Uh um, so again, so the the book that's it's it's incredible. We we I I enjoyed it. I'm glad uh I'm glad Shannon got through it all too. And uh what was your what was there a certain part of the book that you was was a hard read? Was it was it was it tough in a lot of different areas learning about new things that we didn't know about?

SPEAKER_02 29:29

It wasn't a hard read. I felt like it was more I felt seen. Um, I kind of feel like even though it's been about five years since Carson's diagnosis, I feel like we're still kind of in that space where we're still trying to navigate things and trying to find the best fit for him and all of that. And like I said earlier, it was kind of just liberating to see everyone say it is okay to feel this grief, and it's okay to be sad, but you know, it's also finding the joy in your child and the love of your child, and that's really what I resonated with.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

See, what a good Mother's Day present, Susanna. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Yeah, thank you. Oh, you're so welcome. I want to hang out with you guys.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Please, next time we'll bring drinks on here, we'll have a good time, we'll just talk about everything. Oh, yeah, watch out.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

I told you we're we're we're speaking the same language. Um, it's only because it's like 9 30 that I'm having an iced tea. Yeah, yeah. But I'm curious, how is it? Because I it's just me and Arizona. Okay. So you have each other, you have an older son. How is that? What's the sibling relationship like? I so when Arizona was first diagnosed, it diagnosed at you know, two and a half, and then for a few years after that, we were considering do we have another child, do we not? I ended up getting pregnant um at one point and miscarried. And I was actually relieved because I was so not wanting to have another, I was so scared and I was so worried. And I, you know, was just like, what if, what if, what if, you know, there's another child on the spectrum or with special needs, like I will hurl myself over a cliff into, you know, oblivion, right? If that happened. So, but the you know, professionals and the doctors would often say, um, oh, but you need another, you need another child, or you know, Arizona needs a sibling, that kind of thing. So I'm just curious how that dynamic is now with Nolan and Carson.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Nolan being the older one, um, and I'll let you say your piece. I think uh you've had a better you have a bit we have different, different, uh, I think different varieties of this, but I say that Nolan Nolan kind of bloomed into uh an amazing brother, meaning that he really at first I think he didn't really understand it, um, because they're three years apart. Is my math is correct? I'm good at math. Uh his dad when at first he just didn't understand why his brother wasn't speaking and why his brother is, you know, having these meltdowns and having a seven-year-old learn about a meltdown at that age was pretty tough and knowing to protect himself. But the the the the the dynamic now, even now, no one's very caring with his brother now. He's very uh he's very open to it, he understands a lot of it, he asks a lot of questions and but he's very accepting and he doesn't tolerate anyone talking about his brother or saying anything bad about his brother. So he's he's really developed into uh I'll never tell him how proud I am of this, but uh one day I will. Uh go ahead Shannon. What would it be?

SPEAKER_02 32:33

But I think there's also an element of I wouldn't say grief, but something similar because he's getting to the point now where he has friends that have younger brothers that are Carson's age. And you know, they play together and they rough house, and and that's not his relationship with Carson. I think it's kind of him adjusting to, well, this isn't maybe this isn't what I've thought was normal isn't really yeah normal with every family. Um, I think it it happened around when Carson was like two or three. I was watching um a friend of ours child who was nine months younger than Carson, and he was hitting milestones before Carson, like potty training, speaking, all of that. And Carson's kind of, I mean, no one was kind of like, well, why isn't Carson doing this and why isn't Carson doing that? And it's, you know, we had to have the conversation. Well, you know, his, you know, it's different. His brain doesn't work as fast as other children, and you know, um but yeah, like Phil said, he's really blossomed into just a really good older brother. He's very helpful, he's very caring, um, very patient with Carson.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

And we and we do a lot of there's a lot of guilt stuff with it on both sides where like we feel like Shannon is.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Especially for me, because I feel like my I'm always with Carson. Like that's just I've always been with Carson. I'm his number one like caregiver. I follow him everywhere I make sure he's safe. So I don't really get a lot of one-on-one time with Nolan. Um but luckily this year, his school schedule they had Fridays off. So that was like our day to hang out and do stuff together.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yeah. And I feel like Phil, you know, gravitates more towards Nolan because of the guilt, and he goes and does stuff with him that you know Carson really wouldn't be into, or could it wouldn't be like logical to take him to.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, Nolan's very into sports, and he's he's our sports star of the family and uh baseball and football. So we obviously I coach and do that stuff with him and I try and navigate that stuff with them. But uh yeah, and then it kind of leaves Shannon in in in in the lurch a little bit about that. And I I was like, hey, yeah, why don't you and Nolan go do this? And then like go to this concert or go do this with Nolan. And and Shannon's like, oh, I'll just rather be home and read a book. And and then it just turns into like, well, what what how come the last couple times we don't we don't do this? And then it it it just always we always feel guilty about this or that and trying to do more stuff as a family. And since we moved out to Texas, it's been uh that's that was one of the biggest reasons why me personally moving out here is I wanted to give that time to Shannon more because obviously I work uh Monday through Friday and Sunday nights. Uh, and then I I I want to give Shannon more time to be with with no one and with our family, and then spend more family time. And that's the really reason why we were out here doing this is because we're out here by ourselves. We have no one else, there's no one around us, there's no family. We're literally out here just roughing it, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I I I get that. I um it the the the parental guilt is I think something that um is really present in in our lives as families living with disability. I you know, I wish I could have done this differently. I should have done, you know, could have, should have, all of the things. And I think we just have to remind ourselves that we are doing our best. And even just quality time, even if it's 20 minutes a day or 30 minutes, whatever it is, like just having that presence and consciousness. I mean, listen, I'm saying this to you guys. I'm not saying that I mean, I I teach what I most need to learn for sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Absolutely. We got to practice what we preach. But it's it was even cool, like yesterday. Like no one had a Dosh appointment. And so he comes home early. And I was thinking, I'm like, why didn't they come home? And why did they use it? And I go, I look up back and they're out there throwing the ball together. And I was like, this is so cool. Like it was just a cool, like, little moment of like, yeah, this is the stuff that I'm sure Shannon again. Like she again, maybe she didn't feel like she wanted to throw the ball yesterday. I think you were tired.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Well, it wasn't that. I felt like I had like I needed to go to the store before I got Carson. And I was like, Oh, dude, like I gotta go to the store. But then I was like, no, like you can even set aside like 15 to 20 minutes to go throw the ball with Nolan. So we were in the backyard just playing catch. Yeah, so fun. Yeah, so fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

So this is definitely the and honestly, if it was the other way around where Carson was the older child, I I that would have been a whole different scenario.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

I think our story is a little bit similar to yours with after Carson we wanted to add to our family. Uh he was two when we started trying, and then we did get pregnant and end up having a miscarriage pretty much a couple months, you know. It was a couple months after his diagnosis. And I feel like we kind of were like, Well, you know, we don't really know what our road is gonna be from here on out with this new diagnosis. Like maybe it just wasn't meant to be. And you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

So we stopped and said, you know what, this is this is this is I think we're good here.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

And I think we're good with the two, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Do the do the two, and then and that's and again, we we we obviously there's always that like, oh, what if or what if this and stuff like that? Because I yeah, because it's seeing Carson, like car Carson's Carson is his personality alone has developed so much since we've been out here too. And yeah, uh we were always thinking, like, what if you know when he's around kids, he's so great with other other people and animals and stuff like that. He's not aggressive and stuff like that in that way. And so we were like, what if we had a younger kid and they just kind of grew up together? And yeah, like maybe that would be.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yeah. Well, I mean, you guys are still young, so you never know. Surprise! No, I'm just kidding. Surprise, yeah. Happy Mother's Day, yeah. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

No, I think, but I but I love that. It's like we are grateful for what is, you know. I yeah, I again, like I've had so many people tell me, you're you know, Arizona needs a sibling. You need to what this woman came up to me once and she was like, uh, you know, you need to give Arizona a sibling because what if, you know, you she needs to have you need to have more than one child because what if one of them dies?

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

I was like, well, then I'll be very sad.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yeah, that's that's kind of an extremism of like, what if I well if I'm telling you, that's a that's horrible. That's horrible to think about. What you shouldn't be planning in case one of your kids dies. That's that's incredible. What if yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_03 38:47

No, I was like, bye, lady. Yeah, yeah, no, it was I I'm sure she meant well, but I I was like, Well, who's gonna who's gonna are you gonna take care of the kid? Is that what you're gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Yeah, you're raising it because it's pretty tough. It's pretty tough out there with this stuff. Right, you know, right. Oh uh incredible. Well, how's uh how's the podcast going? And you're doing it's it's is it Suddenly Brave Podcast? Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_03 39:10

It's called Brave Together, Brave Together Podcast. But yeah, so I mean, you know, we talk about it's so again, it's so helpful and energizing to talk to other people who get it, but we have you know different types of episodes. We have ask us anything episodes where moms will call in with any question, you know, no question is too um, you know, silly or stupid or too graphic. Like we'll answer everything. Um, then we have expert episod episodes, we have neurodivergent adults, um, disabled adults who come on and tell their story. It's it's we're about to to go into our 11th season with the podcast. And um, you know, we just had our brainstorming meeting about season 11 that's gonna drop uh in the fall. Uh, and we're just currently wrapping up season 10. So it's just again about, you know, it's uh it's like building community, it's learning about new and different and exciting resources and support that we can share with our community or that can be helpful and supportive for us, you know. Um yeah, it's um again, it's it's it's sort of it's kind of like what you guys are doing. It's it's it it's just it's a give back. It's like storytelling, but also like, you know, you have no idea what sort of reach you're going to have. You know, there could be those parents who really literally cannot leave the house because their child is so medically fragile or complex, right? Um, and they only have access to, you know, podcasts and stories and right. So uh it's it's such great work that you're doing. And um, and I I believe that, you know, yeah, it's it's so great this internet thing because this Wi-Fi thing, because you can reach anybody. I mean, we have people, we have, you know, all these support groups, virtual connection circles as well, with We Are Brave Together. I mean, Shannon, seriously, there are there are, I'm sure there are groups in Texas, but even virtual groups and you know, just having touch points and connections. We have a connection circle that's starting in Sri Lanka. So we're all over the world now, and it just goes to show like it's it's so supportive and it's so needed. I mean, it's this is a very isolating life.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Um, and again, I'm, you know, in Los Angeles with billions of other, well, not billions, but like nine million other people. Nine million other people who all happen to be on the road at the same time as me. Uh-huh. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

So it goes.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Um, right. And so um, and and yet it's still very isolating and alone. And I, you know, I have a 19-year-old, and and so I feel like I've been doing this. I I still cannot leave her alone, right? Right. So when everyone's like, oh my gosh, you're about to be an empty nester, I was like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Surprise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

That's not that's not what's happening right now. Someday, possibly, yes, that is a possibility. I I do have hope for that because that's something that she's interested in, a more independent, you know, living situation. Um, but in the meantime, it's here's where we are.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

You gotta remember too that even 19 years old. I mean, I I don't know people that have left their house until they're 24, 25 sometimes. You know, it could be Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Or they or they leave for a little bit and then they come back. Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

They try life out and then I mean I did that when I was younger. I tried that and tried to leave it to come back for a year or two and then lick my wounds and do the best I can, you know?

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Shannon, Shannon, the same way. Shannon didn't move out until we uh got a place together. Yeah. David. So look at that.

unknown 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Full circle moment right there. You like that? Yeah. Happy Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Thank you. Happy Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Susannah, where can we where where can we find you? Do you want to give any any more plugs to your stuff? Anything that else that we want to cover or talk about?

SPEAKER_03 43:28

No, I mean, uh you we we talked about a lot, but I would say that my website kind of has all my stuff on it, and it's my first, middle, and last name.com. I'm gonna say it and then I'm going to spell it. It's um dubdub dub dot susanna peace levell dot com and it's s-a-n-n-a-p-e-a-c e l-o v e-l dot com. And I'm also on Instagram at my Peace, M-A-M-A-P-E-A-C-E. And I will just say that, you know, in 1974 when I was born, and my parents gave me the middle name Peace, I just feel like they had they just knew they just knew that I would need to always be reminded that peace can be available to us. I mean, it's you know, it's what I search for and seek out the most in my life, peace and joy. And um, and so I love every time I say my name because it reminds me like, okay, everything will be okay. You know, that's great. Nothing's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

My name isn't half that cool. That's that's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

I should change what's your middle name?

SPEAKER_01 44:47

It's Gordon. It's not it's not a pretty name. Yeah, see, like Commissioner Gordon from Batman. It's kind of the same thing. It's not I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna curse my boys with that name. So we move we we we moved way past that very fast, as fast as we could.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

No, but Carson's middle name is Philip.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Right, yeah. So I love it.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

That's a strong listen. I love a first, middle, and last name. I just do. Um it's you know, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Yeah. Well, I want to wish you a happy Mother's Day. I want to thank you again for coming on, more importantly, and we and spending your time with us and talking with us. And you're always welcome back if you ever want to talk or just again. Next time we'll do this at night and we'll have some drinks and we'll we'll get really good.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

And then uh I want to wish Shannon and and you both a happy Mother's Day. I hope you guys have a great day tomorrow. Uh, great rest of your weekend. And uh again, please listen, check out her book. It's it's amazing, it'll make it it's uplifting. Uh, it's it's everything you want in a in a in a great storytelling of a lot of letters to to yourself. I mean, Shannon could attest to that. Anything amazing you want to say or exciting you want to say, or please.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

No, I just want to say thank you, Susanna, for your time and I hope you have a wonderful Mother's Day tomorrow. I will.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

I will.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

You will. No middle fingers to the face tomorrow. No middle fingers to the face. That's that's oh yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

I'm gonna say that's yeah, that can't happen. I'm gonna say that I'll be exempt. Exempt tomorrow. Thank you both. This has been so thank you. It was fun talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Appreciate you, and uh thank you. We'll talk to everyone soon.