Kitchen Conversations Podcast

PICKLEBALL PASSION

• Kitchen Conversations • Season 1 • Episode 4

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What happens when an entire family falls in love with pickleball… and never looks back?

In this episode of Kitchen Conversations, Mike sits down with the Kawamotos — a family that has become synonymous with excellence, humility, and heart in the game.

From their first swings on the court to competing at the highest levels, this is a story about how pickleball didn’t just enter their lives… it took over.

You’ll hear how it all started, how quickly they got hooked, and how that journey led them into elite competition, sponsorships, and the Canadian National Pickleball League.

But what stands out most?

It’s not just the wins.

It’s who they are.

Widely known as one of the nicest families in pickleball, the Kawamotos represent everything good about the sport — community, competition, and connection.

🔥 In this episode:
• How the Kawamoto family found pickleball and never looked back
• The moment they knew they were hooked
• Inside the Canadian National Pickleball League and what it’s really like
• The reality of playing at a high level in Canada
• The family dynamic behind competing together
• What the future of pickleball looks like from the inside

🔥 Follow and connect with everything mentioned:

👉 Kawamoto Family (CNPL / Socials)
https://www.instagram.com

👉 Canadian National Pickleball League
https://cnplpickleball.ca

👉 Ottawa Pickleball Association
https://ottawapickleballassociat...

👉 Engage Pickleball
https://engagepickleball.com

👉 Klyng Clothing
https://klyng.com

👉 Tyrol Pickleball Shoes
https://tyrolpickleball.com

📌 If you love stories from behind the paddle, hit subscribe and follow along as we uncover the people shaping this game.

#Pickleball #KitchenConversations #Kawamoto #CNPL #CanadianPickleball #PickleballFamily #BehindThePaddle #PickleballPodcast #EngagePickleball #TyrolShoes #Klyng #OttawaPickleball #PickleballLife #PickleballCommunity #ProPickleball #PickleballCanada #FamilyFirst #PickleballStories #NextLevelPickleball 

And that wraps up this episode of Kitchen Conversations.


If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who loves the game as much as you do.


And if you want the full experience, including the visuals, head over to YouTube and watch the episode at

https://www.youtube.com/@KitchenConversationspodcast

Or search Kitchen Conversations Pickleball Podcast

That’s where these stories really come to life.

You’ll also find links and show notes in the episode description.

Until next time…

more than dinks, drops and drives…

these are stories from behind the paddle.


SPEAKER_06

Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Welcome to Kitchen Conversations. We've got just one goal with this podcast, and that is to inspire one person per episode to pick up a paddle and try the game for the very first time. And we think the family that you're about to meet will help inspire you to be that person. The Kawamotas are known within the local pickleball community as being the nicest people in pickleball. And you're about to find out why. I sat down with Linda, Matthew, Jessica, and Stephanie, and we had a great chat about the game, their passion, their professional careers, and so much more. I hope you enjoy meeting them as much as I did on this episode of Kitchen Conversations. Well, good morning, everyone, and welcome to my little podcast. Welcome to Kitchen Conversations. And let me start by telling you just how thrilled I am to see all of you lined up and ready to talk to me this morning. So welcome, everyone. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks, buddy. Thanks. Thanks so much for having us.

SPEAKER_06

Oh yeah. Well, we've got Linda and we've got Matthew and we've got Jessica and we've got Stephanie. So who are we missing? Who else is part of the family?

SPEAKER_00

We're missing our other sister, Ellen, and our dad, Tom. Um, they're not here today. And then most of us have partners that also play pickleball, but they're not here either.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Do you have a family bus? You must. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The van holds our van holds seven.

SPEAKER_06

Okay. Well, it's close. That's half the game anyway.

SPEAKER_05

So six with all the pickleball stuff.

SPEAKER_06

I just love it. Well, listen, it goes without saying, and those watching and those listening today will certainly know your family name. I mean, the Kaamoto's are just, you know, so tied to the game of pickleball. And I think I've read more than once, and I've been told more than once, you are by far and large the nicest family in pickleball. And so it's well earned. And I'm just excited to have a chance to finally say hello and to finally meet. And Matthew, I think you might be the only sibling that I've ever kind of seen in person. I think you were down at KPC one day playing in a relatively competitive game with Ryan Haynes and some of his gang. And uh, I was just, yeah, taken by your skill. It was just something else. And I think when you walk in the building, there's an elevated sense of excitement. You know, people are walking around the halls whispering, Matthew's here, Matthew's in the building. I'm like, of course, I'm a new player. I'm like, who's Matthew? Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I know who this guy is, but he's pretty popular. So yeah. So that was sort of my only connection to you.

SPEAKER_05

A few friends, and uh, they were just like, everyone's saying hi to you. Like, who are you?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, rock star. Yeah. It's great. Well, listen, I would I've got so much to talk about today, and I've got lots of time. So I'm I'm on your clock. So you tell me when you've had enough of me because I I'm certainly not going to get tired of talking to you today. So thanks again. Linda, I'd really like to start with you if you don't mind this morning. I really appreciate you being part of this today. You know, when I look at the game and I go back in the history of the game and we go back to that summer in 1965, uh, you know, on Bainbridge Island in Washington, and we think about the three guys that were ultimately involved in creating this wonderful game, you know, was Joel Pritchard and of course Bill Bell and Barney McCallum. And that story is relatively well known to most pickleball players, which I think is terrific. I think the legacy of the game, the importance of the game is paramount. And uh I talked to Steve Peronto, the Hall of Famer, a couple of days ago, and we talked about the importance of that. And that very first tournament that he played in in 1976, and you're gonna love this. I don't know if you knew this, I didn't, but that game was actually played on carpet. That was the core. It was literally carpet. And uh so Steve shared some of his thoughts and feelings on that. But the legacy of the game is is really something. And and Linda, the reason I wanted to start with you is, you know, obviously you've gotten the kids involved in this as a sport, and that really was sort of the nucleus for the game. I mean, the kids on Bainbridge Island were driving mom and dad crazy, you know, they were bored. And so they took that old, they took that old court and a couple of ping-pong paddles, and they kind of slowly but surely developed this game and they came up with a kitchen and you know, it took time and it finally evolved. So, can we start with your story about getting all the kids involved and getting the family involved and and just take your time with this? I'd love for you to just run with the story of how this became such an integral part of what you guys are doing as a family.

SPEAKER_01

So, 2014, um, I was playing advanced ladies tennis with uh a girlfriend who went out west. She had um neurological damage in her arm, and she came back home and said, We're gonna start playing pickleball instead. So get a paddle and join pickleball Hamilton. I paid over a hundred dollars in 2014 for this paddle that I'm not even sure I'm gonna like the sport. I I chose it by grip size. I didn't know anything about paddles, but tennis, grip size is very important. If you if the grip is too big, you're throwing your paddle, you're you're rocket. So I I joined pickleball Hamilton, and she said, Oh, the place they're playing is too far from me. I'm gonna play the Gretzky Center in Brantford. It's like, what are you talking about? You made me buy this hundred dollar paddle. So I go out, I'm kind of introverted at that time, and um, we play the first night. The guy says, You don't belong here. This isn't a beginner's night. By the end of the night, I was one of the best women only because we had played tennis. So I come home, Ellen's at Mac, McMaster, and I said, It's so much fun. You gotta come with me next week. So Friday night was a pickleball night. She'd come home every week with me. Jessica was at the University of Waterloo. When she came home, it's like we brought her the occasional time because she didn't come home every weekend. That was great. I played my first tournament in 2014. One of the guys, because I was over 50, asked me to play. His wife was under 50. So my first tournament was that year as well. For my birthday, I asked everyone to play pickleball. So we go to the local court and play. Tom wipes out he does not want to play. So that all down his heart. So, anyways, two years later, our bubble closes for tennis. So Tom says, Okay, I'll try it again. By this time, Stefan Matt has started playing, and they're like, Oh, this is pretty good. So, Tom's converted completely. He plays practically every day. Today he's playing five hours because he's taking my two-hour session this morning and playing his three-hour session after. But I mean, so the whole family loves it right from the beginning. I think everybody just took to it because it's except that, yeah. Yeah, she said that. But um, so yeah, that's the story and getting everybody in.

SPEAKER_06

Well, what a great story. You know, it's and it's it's it's not unique in a sense that I mean, it's unique in the sense that you've got the entire family involved, but you know, how you became addicted so quickly is certainly one of the it's kind of a moving target for me. I call it the magic moment because volunteering at the club, I had the chance to bring people into the game for the very first time. And I would always say, kick off your shoes, you know, we'd answer their questions because there's lots of questions, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we get through that stuff because that's the boring stuff. We'll deal with that later. But getting them on that court for the very first time, in their sock feet, usually, because they wouldn't come with indoor shoes, you know. But I wasn't letting them out the door without getting them on that court because I knew if I did that, that I would convert somebody. I had every confidence at the very moment they hit their first dink or you know, return that ball over the net that that they were hooked. And it was always great because you could just tell, Linda, that the husband usually was the one fighting it. The husband was but he was there because the wife said get in the car.

SPEAKER_01

It was my birthday. It was my birthday present. So he had to go.

SPEAKER_06

Everybody get in the car. We're going to play club. This is about me, not about you. But that moment, I just loved it. I just so loved that moment because you could see it developing and the face muscles would literally change from a frown to a smile. And I knew in that moment that we had them. And so as we left that part of the building, uh, you know, and we got back to the front desk, it'd be like, okay, how do I sign up? And how does membership work? And how do I book a court and you know, all that kind of stuff? So what a great starting story. What a great starting story. Thank you. I just love it. So, so on the heels of all of that, um, can each of you, Matthew, Jessica, Stephanie, can each of you take a turn and just kind of tell me your what do you remember about first stepping on the court? Uh, what's your your fondest memory of the first couple of games that you played with your folks?

SPEAKER_05

The first time I stepped on the court, I finished third year at University of Ottawa, came back here for the summer. Yeah, and I swung and missed.

SPEAKER_06

Hold on. This may be a breaking news story. No, I think this could this could make it on the sports net. Matthew Kalamoto whiffed a ball. Like maybe he swung like a full swing and a miss, not even a tick.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, because we were used to playing tennis, the ball bounce is so much higher. So I was waiting for that pulse and it just dropped right under.

SPEAKER_06

Matthew, have you told many people the story? We may want to edit this out. It could you may not get drafted next year. Like I don't want that responsibility. You need to think about that. Yeah, I I'm glad you shared it with me. I'm not sure you want to share it with the world. Great story. So, anyhow, you missed that ball, but I don't imagine you missed many after that.

SPEAKER_05

No, then uh some of the club members, Ron John, uh, Marilyn, Rick, Valentina, they all took us under their wing and really helped us uh learn the game, learning the dinking and the soft game. Back then, technology wasn't as big, so the soft game was super, super important and still is, but uh yeah. Then uh we took off and burned out my tennis shoes within a month.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, but it was instant for you, was it? I mean, despite that embarrassing whiff, which we'll probably talk about several times this morning because I'm thrilled that you shared that. I'll probably just keep bringing it up to drive you crazy. That's not what we're gonna do. Yeah, so but yeah, so you were hooked, Matthew. I mean, obviously it was something that you felt, yeah. How you know, how did you feel the game compared to tennis? I mean, as a guy that came out of a non-racket background, I was a golfer and at that a pretty terrible golfer. So, you know, when I came onto the pickleball court, I couldn't really draw from a table tennis background or a squash background, or and you would know that immediately, even today, watching me, you'd say this guy doesn't know what he's doing. But, you know, I mean, I think those that come from a racket sports background, certainly at least in my humble opinion, my social level opinion, uh, I think have a slight advantage over those of us that haven't played. You've got the sweeping stroke, you understand angles better. So how do you what are your thoughts on that coming into the game? It must have been a pretty quick transition from from that into into pickleball.

SPEAKER_05

I fully agree. After I missed the one, I mean, uh I didn't miss many after that. And the hand-eye, and uh yeah, the coordination transfers over really easily.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, well, it's interesting. We'll talk a bit more about that, hopefully, in a couple of minutes. But Jessica, what's your recollection of that first step onto the court?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I was just gonna say for Matt, he had his first tournament, I think, a month in.

SPEAKER_06

Wow, really?

SPEAKER_00

He played the 4-0 plus, which is at that time was like the highest category and got silver. So racket sports is talented, but also racket sports help a lot.

SPEAKER_06

No kidding. So he goes from whiffing to winning. Maybe that should be the title of the podcast. From whifer to winner. I like that from whiffer to winner. Maybe we'll run with that.

SPEAKER_01

I just gotta tell you what about that tournament that he played. So this was in London. He played with Tom Taylor. Yeah, yeah. So it was in a um hockey arena, but uh these two guys were diving all over. But I Matthew doesn't dive as much because his anticipation of where the ball is has improved so much. He still does dive, he does the around the post change of hands, that kind of thing. But that tournament, it was crazy. Both of those two guys, you're all over the floor, like it's just it was it was so exciting. It was so exciting.

SPEAKER_06

Well, you know, and maybe that's part of the strategy. If you're running around in circles, the guys on the other side of the net are just getting dizzy, you know. What is happening over there? Yeah, yeah. Hey, what whatever it takes, as long as it's legal and falls within the rules of the game, I'm fine with it. So I don't think there are any any rules with running in circles. I've never read that. So yeah, great, Jessica. Thanks for adding that. That's a great point. I didn't realize that. So yeah, so let's get on to your story. What uh what happened the first time you stepped on a court?

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember. Oh, really? I know, right? For well, for me, it was it's probably been 10 years, maybe a little bit more. So I don't remember. I think I got hooked really fast.

SPEAKER_01

Um well it was it was easy. It was easy for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just learning the soft game, right?

SPEAKER_01

That's the hard part. Which we didn't at the beginning, because because coming from tennis, you're just banging. And it's like, oh, it's okay. We can bang, we can bang and win, you know?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, well, it's interesting to watch the tennis players, you know, when I I play a lot of social events because that's you know, frankly, just where I'm comfortable. And I mentioned earlier in the podcast, I absolutely love people. And so that's where I get to meet my people and I get to chat courtside, you know, in between rallies. And and uh, you know, that when I see somebody new show up for a social event and they step on the court, and I, of course, never played with them or against them, uh, you know, immediately, you know, they just don't leave the baseline. You know, I'll I'll often ask them, would you would you like a chair? Because you know, just sitting back there banging, you know, so and it's fun to watch them develop, though. It's fun to watch them understand the game because the, you know, the pr I say there's a huge benefit perhaps to having a tennis background or a squash background or what have you in any racket sport. But the I think one of the struggles the tennis people have is that they're predictable. You know, they're so predictable because you know they're not hitting a soft shot. You know, they they might surprise you with a lob every so often, but for the first little while until they recognize, Matthew, to your point earlier, the importance of that soft game, uh, which is still part of it, not as much as perhaps it was as it was even say three years ago. But uh yeah, I love that part. So yeah, so Jessica, so there was no sort of burning memory in your mind. You didn't whiff a ball, obviously you're far better than your brother.

SPEAKER_00

Either that or I blocked it out, you know.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, well, we do that with memories that we don't want to think of. Matthew should maybe practice that a little bit. So yeah, because I think not once, I'm not counting Matthew, but twice now. You've mentioned it yourself, and I think I've mentioned it four times now. So we're gonna get to 11 before we know it, you know. We're gonna whiffing yeah, yeah, for sure. Stephanie, how about you? I love your shirt, by the way. I want to point that out.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06

You're the only one that dressed appropriately for the podcast, but me included. So way to go. What's your story? What are you doing with the game right now? And what's your recollection of that first couple of games?

SPEAKER_02

I don't remember the first couple of games. Um I yeah, I I think I found it fun, but it didn't get serious right away like everyone else. And then Matt and I started going to drop-ins in Ottawa and different Ottawa Pickleball Association locations, and just you know, started slowly. And then it would be in the same gym as Matt, but I would be playing on a lower court and everyone's going, Wow, your brother. Like, I know he's good.

SPEAKER_01

Just want to point out Stephanie has worked her way up to a 5.0 um in Stephanie.

SPEAKER_06

Wow, yeah, yeah. We're gonna run through all of that, yeah. Get an update on everything for sure. Yeah. Well, I find also find it kind of interesting because I'm often accused of not having the best memory as a man, but uh clearly Matthew and I are doing okay here. The girls can't remember anything. So it's like I just want to mark that on the calendar, you know. Yeah, we did better than the girls, so score is one zero for us right now. So yeah, well, listen, from here, let's chat a little bit about um where each of you are today within the game and within the you know, the the pro level. And uh Linda, you'd mentioned when we first started um in behind Jessica, you've got some sponsorship. And so I'm just gonna let you know you run with all of that. Let's let's talk about where you are professionally in the game uh today and the sponsorships and the the professional league, the CNPL, and it just you know, chat about that for a bit with me if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_01

So I'll talk about the sponsorship so you guys can talk about where you are professionally. Does that sound okay?

SPEAKER_06

Sounds perfect.

SPEAKER_01

So super exciting. 2018, we uh five of us go down to the US Open in Naples.

SPEAKER_02

Not me, I had a daughter.

SPEAKER_01

Stephanie's a teacher, so she she couldn't get the time off that year. So 2018, uh, the triplets. So Jessica, Ellen, and Matthew are triplets, they brought eight medals. Um, the exciting part was um we got our engaged pickleball sponsorship prior to going down. Uh, Matthew and Ernesto Ferrero end up playing our owner, Rob Elliott, and his son Josh, and beating him, which was beautiful because this is the first time we've ever met the owner of Engage. So that was really exciting, and it's a family sponsorship. So all six of us are sponsored. So I mean, me, old lady and dad, like we still have our sponsorship. When Tyrell shoes came out, Matthew is a um, he tries out the shoes before they go on the market and tells them, you know, good enough. So the whole family is sponsored, sponsored with Tyrell pickleball shoes, which is beautiful. Um, they're they're great shoes.

SPEAKER_05

You also know though, uh, the owners, uh, the wife used to play in Waterloo with us, and then the husband got into it as well. So you you and dad go up to see them.

SPEAKER_01

We go up and they come down from Huntsville, yeah, the Huckle. So, anyways, yeah, beautiful couple. And then uh Cling um is owned by Lily Brown. Uh, she came to the house two Christmases ago, met the whole family, uh, her and and Mike, and um sponsored the whole family and partners at that time as well. So Cling Compression is is great, pants socked. Um, Matthew, you'll see him in a lot of cling shirts rather than the engage shirts, because they're they're so comfortable as well as uh dry fit and and just they look nice on him. So it's exciting for the whole family to have a sponsorship because generally most of us aren't that level to get the sponsorship, but it's because of of these two, mainly Matthew initially, but now Matthew and Jessica.

SPEAKER_05

Now she kicks my butt.

SPEAKER_01

I wish. So now you guys can talk about your your CNPL.

SPEAKER_05

Well, if we're talking about CNPL and talk kicking my butt. Last year we faced up in the Montreal event, and people, my teammates included, won't let me forget that she went for an Ernie and body bagged me at the same time.

SPEAKER_06

Ooh, that might be slightly worse than whiffing the ball. Your sister body bags you on an ernie. Wow. And says, Yeah, sorry, not sorry. Were you uh what were you thinking? Were you daydreaming or just not paying attention, or she's just that good? She's just that good. She's just that good answer. Great answer, by the way. She's more 11 and three quarters. Not even well, maybe you can't, yeah. She's that maybe you don't see her coming. She's below the net, maybe. It's like a stealth attack. Here I come. Jessica's stealth attack, the Ernie. Yeah. I love maybe we should rename it from Ernie to Jessica's stealth attack or something. Yeah. JSA, call it the JSA. It might sound better. I like that. Yeah. We're gonna change the game today. I didn't realize that, but I think we are. We are wow. So Montreal was interesting. And how did it how did how did it go after that moment?

SPEAKER_05

The season was fun. Uh, I was on Team Toronto United in the playoffs. We had our chance uh to beat the defending champs Montreal in uh the semifinals and ended up losing in the tiebreaker 21-20 and then uh came back up from the bottom bracket, lost again in the finals. So we took second last year.

SPEAKER_06

Okay, good. Good. Tell me before we get too much further, can you maybe those listening might be scratching their head and going, what the heck is a CNPL? Um, do you want to just give me a broad sense of what the league is all about and some of the structure within it? Um you don't need to go into a ton of detail, but just maybe for the average listener today that's uh tuned into the podcast, give me a sense of what the CNPL really is.

SPEAKER_05

The CNPL is the Canadian National Pickleball League. It's a professional league across Canada. It first started drafting only pickle uh Canadian citizens and Canadian uh players to help grow the level of us and uh help develop the game in Canada. Last year it put in place uh you can have one international player and an under under 16s were allowed as well. Uh so then the quality of the game with one international player and the other Canadian players who have developed has increased the quality of play dramatically.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

When did the league start, Matthew? Do you remember the year it kind of came into being? We've played three years, so that would be twenty twenty three twenty twenty three. Right. And are the teams independently owned then by Certain businesses or enterprises. Is that how it kind of works or very much like major sports?

SPEAKER_05

They are independently owned. Not sure the cost of a team. Some of them, like Jess's first year, she played on Corey Osborne and Rob Kris managed his team, and then they weren't owners in the second year, so rebranded.

SPEAKER_00

But there's eight teams, six players on a team, so there's a good spread of players to kind of get your shots against and see how you do against different styles.

SPEAKER_05

It uses rally scoring, which is interesting. For those who don't know rally scoring, uh the right side player and the left side player stay on their own side of the court. So you can still stack, but with the scoring, it just goes back and forth. And uh I personally don't like it as much. I'm a player who I believe you should be able to play on both sides of the court or find a strategy where stacking comes into play. So where people can just solidify their strengths and stay on whichever side they're comfortable with. I I don't like it as much.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I would say most people I play with don't like rally scoring, but we do it in certain ladder events and things just to kind of keep the pace of play going. And you know, it's interesting that way. But yeah, people seem to fight it because I know as soon as that segment of the morning is over, say it's a Saturday morning, we're doing this little ladder thing with rally, the moment we're just blending and mixing again, we're right back to regular scoring. You know, everybody's done with rally, I'm done with that. We're let's move on to yeah, now we can play real pickleball. So it's interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It changes the game a lot.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, does it, Jessica? In what way?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So seeing it in CNPL, um, because every single point matters, especially with the first year where people are kind of feeling it out more. You see, serves aren't as hard. People are just keeping the ball in play a lot more and not going for as much because you're losing a point if you're gonna miss, right? So it's a lot more about consistency and like smart aggression, but not as much about just like going all out for certain shots that people might normally go for when you just like might lose first serve and go to second serve if you would play normal side out scoring, right? So it it changes the game a lot. I think I don't like it as much either, but for our style of game, I think it's better for us because we're more consistent, steady players. But yeah, it's interesting. It's a very different game, I think.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Great point. I wasn't thinking about that serve. I mean, that's really the only moment in the game where you, as the server, control every uh element of that. Like you're not reacting in that moment. You're you know, you're you're initiating. And so, you know, it's much like golf. Someone said the greatest thing about golf is the ball doesn't move till you make it move. And so you're in total control of every single shot. Whereas in a game like pickleball, it's very much reacting to what the other side of the net has now done. And yet in the moment of that serve, and you see it, we see it at the social level where people are trying these crazy spin serves, and they're all they're just trying to get an ace. And they might get they might get, okay, so you got one ace a year, like you're missing eight, eight in a row, and buddy doesn't seem to want to adjust it. He's like, oh no, and this thing's working, it's a killer. I'm like, it's killing you, like, yeah. I I just love to sit there and watch them and I go, why does he keep doing that? And it's usually, by the way, with all due respect, a he, not a she. The she's figured out better than the he's. I'm like, this isn't working. So, you know, you can actually check your watch when when Ron is on the other side now. He he is not getting it in the box, it's it's not in the box. So it's interesting. So and Stephanie, you're not involved in in the CNPL at this point.

SPEAKER_02

No, I uh I tried out the first year, I think, and I was a spare, but I'm not yeah, it's not really my thing. Like I love going to watch, I love supporting, but playing in that kind of high pressure environment is not so much my thing.

SPEAKER_05

So she does do she does do a lot of tournaments though and enjoys it, and she has uh grown a pickleball club at her school where she teaches.

SPEAKER_06

Nice, very cool. Listen, Stephanie, as a teacher, you can't save the world and be a pro pickleball player. You gotta you can only wear one cape. Just yeah, you can only be one superhero. So be the classroom superhero. Yeah, I advocate for that. Like this is just a silly game with a wiffle ball. You're actually making a difference in people's lives. So I mean, let's be honest, I've got a son that's gonna be a teacher, so I'm gonna advocate for that pretty heavily. Yeah, absolutely. Well, good for you, Linda. I have a question. I don't know if this is a rumor or it's true. Uh, when we talk about you attending the kids' games and cheering them on, was there a story? Is there any truth to the pom-poms and you had different colored pom-poms? Is that just a rumor or is there a real story?

SPEAKER_01

So uh Jessica, Ellen, and I make from a metallic curtain pom-poms. So we do a colored, I mean Matthew's great, he's been on the same team, so green. Uh Jessica has gone from blue to red, and we just finished making the purple pom-poms. Let me just go grab it. So yeah, we we just give them to all the spectators and try and get the crowd going so that everyone's cheering and cheering for our two teams.

SPEAKER_06

Um, well, there yeah, nothing like a uh a pom-pom and a cowbell to get things going, I guess.

SPEAKER_05

The best is when there are two courts going and there's a timeout here. Mom goes over here, doesn't cheer for the crowd, timeout there, she runs over, footzall know they're dreamsy.

SPEAKER_01

It's crazy when they're playing two different courts at the same time.

SPEAKER_05

It's just like she gets more steps than all of us.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, your Fitbit's saying, sit down, Linda, you've done enough. Sit down, stop moving. Yeah, 20,000 in one day is just more than enough for you. Yeah. Well, that's a great story. Well, I'm glad I asked because someone had mentioned that uh when I mentioned I was talking to you, of course, they were like, Oh my gosh, you're so lucky. Uh, and I and I acknowledge that, but they also said make sure you ask about the the pom-poms and mom cheering everybody on. Has there been a moment when the kids have competed against one another? And therefore you have one in the left and one in the right. How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I do, and then just try and get um cheer one and then cheer the other. Time out for one minute, it's really hard to get both cheers in. So we we do it. Yeah, and usually distracted Aunt Margaret's going, Linda, start the cheer. So my sister is very much uh groupie for these guys. She'll she'll fly to Edmonton, she wants to go to BC with us, and and um, so she's very much into cheery too. But I have the louder voice than her. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Well, you know, I remember when the both the boys played volleyball and basketball, and uh, you know, it really ended in a hurry. And so I and I'm envious of you, Linda, that you're able to carry this on later in life with the kids and to be part of that because I I'll I don't mind admitting this. I Matthew, if you've if you'll admit to whiffing, I'll admit to crying. So um I did, I cried. I I cried at both of the boys' last game in high school because I knew they weren't going to go on to university varsity or you know, they're just gonna play recreationally. And and it's awkward if your dad shows up at your university pickup game on a Tuesday night. It's just kids don't want you to do that. So I threatened, I said, I will drive from Kingston, Ottawa to watch you play pickup volleyball. Dad, don't you ever walk into like they wouldn't even tell me where they played. But yeah, I mean, that last game for me as a parent, Linda, really to be honest, and I think you can appreciate this, you know, I was so proud of the kids, you know, and they became great people. And I think sport lent itself to that. I think they would not be the same people there without the sport. And I I'm sure you would echo that with your kids today, without pickleball and sports and and that community and and the focus that you need to be a great player. I think uh yeah. So I did cry. I did cry at the last two games because we knew it was a final game, and that was gonna be the last time that that my wife Francis and I could sit in the gym, you know, on the bleachers and watch the boys play. So yeah, it was a tough moment. So let's wrap up the conversation around the league. And what else would you share with the listener today, Matthew, Jessica, Stephanie, uh, Linda, like any of you, uh, what are your thoughts on the league? And is it something that uh more of us recreational players should be paying attention to? Should we be getting out and watching the games? What, you know, how can we support the league and how can we get our own, you know, how can we get our cheering section going here as casual players?

SPEAKER_05

I think it would be amazing uh for more people to start coming out and watching the game and just supporting it. It really shows the quality of play in Canada and where we've come to. Um the US obviously started way before Canada and have they have a lot more people. So the quality of play there, the top pros, uh not many of us, none of us, I don't think, would be able to keep up with the top pros down there. But uh yeah, the quality of play in Canada is exceptional and uh we we need more support for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and it's not just the support for players that are not your level, well, even your level, watching other players, you learn so much, or you have um the drive to I want to learn that shot. And that's something you take back to your club and you work on that shot. And oh, I mastered that, whatever that player did, or sometimes you may have a favorite. There's people that come up to these guys, can I get your picture with you? You know, because they see it on YouTube, they see see you playing in real, and it's like they starting to admire some of the Canadian players or the the people in the Canadian League. Oh, I didn't realize you were this short.

SPEAKER_06

I used to look up to you, I used to look up to you. Now I look down to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I actually do have a lot of people that come up and say they love watching me because I'm so small. They're like, I'm short too. I can I love seeing that like short people can actually do well.

SPEAKER_06

So I don't think height uh and weight necessarily and physicality and experience necessarily um, there's no guarantee from that. There's there's a lot of variables that can come into that. So yeah, it's it's interesting. Great stuff. I love it. Well, the league is great. I think that um, you know, we need to get the message out about that a little bit more. And it's it's just not something, and I say this with the utmost respect to you as players and competitors and and part of all of this, but uh not a lot of the people I play with talk about the Canadian National Pickleball League. You know, everybody's focused on the PPA and you know, and they're talking about Ben Johns and that other girl. I can't remember her name, but I guess she's pretty good. Um, oh, is that who it is? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I couldn't I couldn't remember her name.

SPEAKER_06

I yeah, ALW, uh some acronym there. Yeah, I hear she's pretty good. I think if she keeps trying, she'll get there. You know, I really do believe that. But yeah, you know, it's funny, we seem to focus on that, but we're in a moment right now, uh you know, to have a sober thought here. We're in a moment right now as a country, and uh the world's in a mess right now. It really is. And so this whole elbows up attitude and the whole idea of getting behind Canada and you know, speaking the truth about our great nation. I'm gonna be talking to uh two Canadian paddle manufacturers here in the next little while, and they're family-owned businesses and they're trying really hard to get their paddles into the market. And, you know, it's it's challenging uh when we're cheering for one side or the other. And I just think pickleball has a role to play in that. So I think we need to get behind the league. I think we need to get more of us rec players paying more attention, becoming fans, following you, asking for pictures, pointing out how short you are, you know, things like that. So yeah, that'll be great. So well, good. Um, was there anything else that you wanted to touch on with respect to the league before we kind of move on to maybe the next topic?

SPEAKER_02

I've started televising it.

SPEAKER_06

Oh, have they, Stephanie? Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I don't know what channel because I usually watch on YouTube, but usually there are two courts going. One's a YouTube court, one's a TV court. So people can start watching on TV.

SPEAKER_06

Nice. Yeah. And maybe that's part of it too, right? Access to it would be better than yeah, yeah. Um, I have one final question. Tell me about the season and tell me about the draft so that we can kind of get our head wrapped around that, and then we can move on to some new things. But how does this when does the season officially begin? When does it end? And how does the draft process work uh in this league? What's the what's the steps that that you have to go through?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the season usually runs about May to September, end of September, somewhere around there. There's a varying number of events depending on the year. So I think this year there might be six events plus the finals. Um and then once the season's done, there's a period where teams can re-sign players. And then last year they introduced this new free agent period. So you could potentially pick up somebody new as a free agent. Um, and that's usually maybe October, November, somewhere around there. And then in January, the draft happens, and that's a snake draft. You've got eight teams, I think based on some kind of seeding from the previous year determines the order, and then they'll fill out their ranks and get their six players.

SPEAKER_06

How stressful is that, Linda? As like from sorry, from your perspective as a mom, when that when that moment's coming, like it's draft season, is that is that kind of a sleepless kind of time?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's it's terrible this year. I mean, because because the unexpected um trade happened within half an hour uh for Jessica um two from London Smash to Northern Lights. It it it was like a phone call that happened between 5:30 and 6 o'clock. So we're watching the draft, not knowing at this time that she's been traded. She didn't know she was traded. And and then um, yeah, so that it's it's nerve-wracking. It's it's actually really terrible. But I just wanted to talk about the events. The events, it's like a league. If you play baseball, you play every week. The event is a weekend where all the teams play each other, or the eastern teams or the western teams. So it's it's not a tournament style. Like, I mean, you may have winners at the end, but it gives you your standings for the league, and then you have finals at the end and your championship game at the end. And the championship game is actually what determines the rest of the league. I mean, the the standings for the CNPL league, right? Does that make sense?

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And then before the draft, there are qualifier tournaments that happen in different cities, and that's like a team tournament style event where just a team of four will go and play kind of a CNPL type thing where it's a men's doubles, a women's doubles, two mixed doubles, and then signing up for those, you can also sign up for the draft.

SPEAKER_01

And then owners will come to those events to you know start thinking of who the people want to pick for the draft and and even talk to people at that time because personality is very important for more so for some teams than other teams rather than just the level of play, right? So you could be really good, but if you are not very good as personality-wise, sometimes you may not get picked.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, it's funny. We I mentioned we had a small business for a number of years, for almost 50 years, we we had a small company, and uh culture was so important to us. You know, we we would hire on culture and we would, you know, promote on culture. And uh uh yeah, you're right. One one rotten apple in the barrel, so to speak, the old saying can can wreck the whole batch. So yeah, I can see that happening. Yeah, fascinating. Well, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I think there's a lot of us that kind of, you know, we know about it, but we don't know a lot about it. So I think what we've talked about here in the last little bit will help bring a little light, shed a little light on things, which is terrific. So Linda, this is gonna be a terribly unfair question, perhaps. But and it's not gonna be who's your it's not gonna be who's your favorite player, but what do you admire? I wouldn't even ask that. I wouldn't know. As a parent, I would never put you in that position. Never. I mean, I have a favorite kid, but I'm not telling you who it is. So yeah. They'll be listening to this both scratching their heads saying, it's gotta be me. Like I know it's no, it's me. No, it's me, no, it's me. Yeah, anyway, I love them both dearly and I'm so proud of them. But uh, Linda, what uh what do you admire most about the kids' games, all three of them? What uh what part of Matthew's game, Jessica's game, and Stephanie's game, do you step back as a player and a parent and say, wow, they've that's really their thing. What is their signature shot or signature characteristic within the game of pickleball that you admire as their mom the most?

SPEAKER_01

Very people don't lob Matthew very often. His vertical jump is is, I don't know, three to four feet high. And he can just get right up there and do a smash, turn it sideways, whatever he wants. In the air, he he determines where he's gonna hit it. So, like if people move over there, he'll go this way. So that's his shot. Jessica have, if you've ever seen her, she almost does the splits. People go, she's doing the splits, she's not doing the splits, but she gets really low to get those those balls for um over the net, you know, like and so people are amazed with that. Stephanie deceptive. Stephanie's a left-hander, so she does inside out down the down the alley really well. She does her crosses really well, and people aren't used to lefties, and a very unorthodox technique.

SPEAKER_05

As a coach, I say I would never teach someone how step place.

SPEAKER_06

So it's the unexpected on the other side of the net because you don't expect so when you run a clinic, do you bring her in, Matthew, and say we've got a special guest on how not to play pickleball today? So yeah. So I want you to watch this for five minutes. I want you to forget about it. Just don't ever do this. Yeah, it works for her, but it will not work for most of us.

SPEAKER_05

So she actually helped with an a demonstration with the Ottawa Pickleball Association a few weeks ago. And I I did say I would not teach people how to like I love you, sis, but no, no, this isn't pretty.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Well, that's okay. She's leading by example, maybe not in the way that you normally would interpret that, but she's leading by example. So yeah. Well, that's really terrific. Well, that's just great. Yeah. It's um, you know, I think it's funny. We all seem to sort of have that comfortable shot that our go-to shot, if you will, the one that we rely on the most and the one that we count on the most. So yeah, that's really great. So, well, thanks for all of that. Um, Matthew, what um where do you see the game going in the next couple of years? We talked briefly about, uh, or at least touched on about the soft game kind of disappearing. I'd like to spend a bit of time with all of you, get all four of your insights into from the day that you started this, Linda, you came off the tennis court. You know, what's been the most fundamental change to the game? Has it been the third shot drop kind of being less and less of a of a predictable outcome to the serve return? Um, and I'd love each of your uh perspectives on that, if you don't mind. Linda, do you want to start maybe with that?

SPEAKER_01

Um, yeah, so that's huge. But but Jessica and Matthew, if you watch them, they still do a lot of third shot drops. Because they're so consistent with it, it gets to them to the net right away. Whereas your drive, it comes back, then you have to do a fifth shot drop, right? I mean, but so yes, I see that.

SPEAKER_05

I'd say in rec play, you might see people driving more, and as especially coming from tennis or other racket sports, they just want to hit the ball. Maybe they're not as smart either or haven't thought about the strategy. Um for our game, as just said, we're more consistent players. We're not as much aggressor, aggressive players, so we rely on the third child drop a lot more. But it depends on your own skill set and the skill set of the opponents. If uh if they can handle the drive really easily, then why keep driving? Uh, but if they can't, then yeah, even though we're not as comfortable doing that, we would have to change and probably play a few more drives. So I do agree that it's changing to a faster game, but if you're playing smart and adjusting to who's on court, then the soft game is still super, super important.

SPEAKER_06

Boy, do I ever love hearing you say that. That almost makes up for the wiffle comment. Um, because I think Matthew, what what I'm seeing, and you know, I've been at it about three years, and I think, you know, we Stephanie mentioned watching on TV, and I think a lot of us do watch a fair bit of the game, uh, obviously. And uh what I see happening is your Monday morning rec player coming in, having spent the weekend watching the pros play and coming in and deciding they're now a pro. And so, you know, they're driving that thing. And I think if most of us on the other side of the net would simply step out of the way, that ball is going into a whole different postal code. I mean, it's it's leaving Kingston, it's on its way to Ottawa. We just gotta let it go. You know, let it go, you know, shoulder high, let it fly, kind of thing. And uh, I see so many people feeling that, oh, if I'm gonna play like the pro, you know, I've got to change my game. And they're just, and of course, a third shot drop, you know, it's it's talked about and it's been part of the game forever. It's not an easy shot in certain situations. I mean, many of us rec players struggle with it, and uh none of us drill because that's you know, you don't need to drill to be good. Um, you know, so you know, I think you see a lot of rec players struggle with the drop shot, uh, generally short, or you know, they pop it up or whatever the case may be. So I think they revert to the drive because the other side of the net tends to not get out of the way. And so then they kind of their brain goes, hey, this is working. Like, you know, I yeah, I'm hitting this guy in the chest or you're being body bagged like Jessica did to you on the and so I think there's a misunderstanding about, you know, I'm I'm a rec player, I'm changing my style, and it's working. It's working. Well, it's not really working, and it would work for about a half a second against anybody on the screen today, you know, except me. Um, but you know, um yeah, like it's like what are these people thinking? So to hear you echo that today is important. So yeah, Jessica, is that drop shot still an important part of your arsenal as well? I mean, it's there and you're using it.

SPEAKER_00

For sure. I've actually been working on my drives lately, um, but I default to a third shot drop. And I was I was going to say when we were talking about all of the soft game, we way back when, like 10 years ago, we used to play with a ball called a jug. I don't even know if you would have ever heard of it or played with it, but it was it was so soft. It was like a squishy ball almost. Um, and it's why the game was such a soft game because it's so soft and slow that the ball doesn't come up very high. And if you're gonna attack it, it's staying really low. You're hitting really far up. Um the game and it's slow. And it's slow, yeah. So it was back then basically just a dinking game. It was a matter of who can dink the longest without messing up. Um, but with like the technology and the balls nowadays, the game's gotten so much faster.

SPEAKER_06

Um Yeah, and we're and we're gonna get into some of that too before we let you go today for sure. Cause I'd love your insight into that. I I've never heard of that. Can you say the word again? Is it jug like J-U-G? A jug ball.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Really? Was it the same size as the current ball that we play with today?

SPEAKER_02

It was green.

SPEAKER_06

Really?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Huh.

SPEAKER_06

Boy, I need to do my homework before I do these podcasts.

SPEAKER_02

I'm that one went right over my head.

SPEAKER_06

Like literally, it did. Yeah. I never heard of that. So I'll have to look into that.

SPEAKER_02

I still use them for coaching kids because they're such a slow ball that it's easier for them to hit the ball.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, for sure. Interesting. Wow. Well, let's jump from that then into uh technology and changes to the game and certainly the ball, the paddle. I think, you know, and one of the questions I'd like to ask each of you as well is what concerns you today? We were talking earlier in the conversation with Linda about the beginnings in 1965. And I'm a really big fan of keeping the integrity of things intact, and whether that's a family, which is important to me, critically important, or a game that I love. I think I worry a bit about losing some of the integrity in the game. And as the sport grows and more money starts to come into the game and things start to change and people see profit opportunities. And what's the biggest concern that the four of you have about the future of the game that we all love so much? And Linda, do you want to maybe kick that off for us?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, the way the paddle's going right now, um, I mean, they're getting really expensive, but the power coming off, some of them, um, at least engage. We like engaged paddles because they're consistent with respect to power and control. So I mean it's been a really good paddle for us. Um, people have suggested trying some of the other paddles, but the it they're almost dangerous. Some of the speed that are coming off so I don't know where the um governing body is that's gonna control that before it gets carried away and someone gets really hurt. I mean, I'm sure people have gotten hurt already, yeah, right, because of the the speed that's coming off. Um I don't know, you guys add to that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I've had some people who I I've there's an engaged dealer in Ottawa who's come up to me and said, What paddle do you use? Uh, some of the players want to use the paddle you're using, and I'm like, I've switched to this to get more power for my game for the pro game, but I would highly suggest this other paddle that has more control because those players need control more than anything. Uh, but if they're just going for paddles that the pros are using and have more power, it is too dangerous. And and it's gonna take away from the soft game. Like people want it. Uh the Ottawa Pickleball Association does a lot to promote the soft game and teach the overall game of pickleball, not just the banging. But then players have such a hard time doing it because they're all getting the new paddles that have so much power.

SPEAKER_06

So Jessica, what are your thoughts on all this? And what what concerns you, uh, if anything, about the game? I mean, it's not so much a question that you have to answer, but is there anything about the future of the game that you're kind of maybe watching with one eye and wondering, gee, I hope we don't go down that rabbit hole. That might not be a good place for the game to go today.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna change gears slightly and less about the technology and qu and equipment, but more as my concern is as the game grows and there's more money involved, it's such a game about calling your own lines. That you already see it at tournaments and you see it, but I feel like you're starting to see it more and more where oh, that ball was out, but it was this far in, but there's no one to contest it. And a lot of the times the other team can't do anything about it and the call will stand, right? Um so I think those kinds of things are going to be more concerning as the game grows.

SPEAKER_06

That's such a great point. Yeah, I talked earlier this week with a gentleman who was talking about the importance of AI, you know, coming into the game at some point and and the specifically for that, perhaps. And he was talking about possibly, you know, uh building sensors into the courts and you know, smartwatches and different things that are coming. But we all see it. We see it the rec level, and there's always that guy, and his name's usually Bob.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know why, but Bob.

SPEAKER_06

It's like, come on, Bob. Like it was so in, like, come on, you know, and yeah, it does get to you. I can't imagine when there's the amount of money on the line and the sponsorship and the endorsement and how important it becomes at that level, the the most elite level in the game. How you know when you're up against a bad line call, it's it's it's infuriating. Um, so great point. I'm really glad you went there. Yeah. Stephanie, what are you thinking about with respect to the future of the game?

SPEAKER_02

I was just gonna add on to that. You always hear in rec play, someone will say, Oh, that was tournament out. And that makes me so angry because there should be no, if you have integrity, there should be no difference between out in a rec game and out in a tournament.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and I'm so proud of my kids. My kids are very honest with calls. Matthew sometimes, well, I mean, the rule is if it's close, it's in. And I know Matthew has had partners that are not happy with his calls, but Matthew's very good with respect to if it's close, it's in. And and some of the higher ones, as you say, it's getting to the point that we could see that it was in. Why are you calling it out? And but I mean, we know some of those players, right? And they they have a reputation now, which is sad.

SPEAKER_06

Well, that's I was gonna say, Linda, you know, I can I can certainly speak for myself, and I'm certainly for you as well, and and and all of you that are on the screen today. I'm sure we can put our head in our pillow at the end of the day and feel good about that. And you know, when someone's playing that way, they know that. I mean, it's you know, I mentioned golf was sort of my primary sport. And you used to play with a lot of guys that after the hole, you'd say, Hey, what'd you get? And usually it was Bob again. This Bob guy gets everywhere. And, you know, and Bob would say, Oh, I think I got a six. And I go, Well, geez, Bob, you were three off the T, two in the pond, one in the woods, and now you putted four times. So I think you're 13. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot that. I'm like, how could you possibly say six? Like, if you're gonna lie, lie with some integrity, like maybe say, but I always I often wonder because I I would think about Bob, you know, he's driving home in his car and he knows darn well he didn't shoot 83, shot 183, you know. And I don't know how he reconciles that. And so I don't think there's a sport in the planet. Um, you know, where really there isn't an opportunity. And and Jessica, it's a great point you've made. Like it's a self-call, right? You we've got to trust it. We're not even on the opposing side of the net supposed to weigh in on that conversation. It's like, well, what did you guys see? And Linda, you're right. If they don't know what they saw, then it's in, then it goes our way. And yeah, I I hope that uh I hope we find a way around that. I'm I worry about AI a little bit, about you know, putting us all out of work, but I also think there's some benefit uh to certain things like this and line calls and that kind of thing. So yeah, interesting stuff. Well, Matthew, you're I also don't want to miss the point today to talk about um the Ottawa Pickleball Association because it really was through them and through Diana that I connected with you. And I don't want to miss that point. I want to thank her publicly. So thank you, Diana, for listening and for connecting me. And please keep connecting me. You know, I'm looking for great guests. So, you know, my number's open, call me anytime. But uh, she's been wonderful and her and I will sit down. I'm a little worried about her energy level, though. Like she is way up here. Like, you know, I'm pretty energetic. I'm not sure I can keep up to her. So I may need a Red Bull for that interview. I just don't know where to go with that.

SPEAKER_05

But she's excited to go on on here.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, well, she's hooked me up with Dr. Colin Campbell, who's doing some things with the club, you know, to talk about injury prevention, that sort of thing. So that'll be a fun chat as well. But she's been just terrific. So tell me about that organization, how it fits into your life and what you're doing. And uh yeah, run with that for a few minutes for me.

SPEAKER_05

That organization has been around for 12, 12 or 13 years. Uh so it started well before most people knew pickleball, and they do a really good job uh teaching the soft game. Uh so we my job as the as the head pro is to do assessments for the club. So uh we have 650 or 700 members now, and for all the players who sign up for leagues, we go around in September for three weeks and then in January again for three more weeks to just balance out the levels and make sure all the players are playing at level. Uh, we also do clinics skill sessions uh to encourage uh people learning the skills and drilling uh so they have time to put the skills into use. But I would say most of the players just want to play leagues and uh play at their level versus putting in the practice. There's probably there might be 10% of the people, 20 who want to do drills, which is probably the most important part if they want to get better.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah, but the organization seems Diana speaks very fondly of it and she speaks about the integrity of it. And uh yeah, she she rules it with an iron fist, I think. And I think that's good. I think she loves the game. You can tell just by I've had a chance to be on the phone with her twice uh over the last month or so and setting up the podcast and looking for great guests, which of course thank you all for being here again. It's been wonderful so far. And you know, she's just such a passionate part of the game, and we just need more and more of that. I think she's good for the game, the organization's good for the game, and and the fact that you're testing those players. And here's a quick question for you, Matthew. What what happens when you come to me and I think I'm a 4-0, but you tell me I'm a 2-3? Like, what? Like, how delusional are certain people? And I don't want you to mention names, but you can maybe drop Bob's name in here because I'm sure he's that guy again. But poor Bob, he's getting beat up this morning. But uh do you find that there are players that really just aren't quite seeing their game? And is that a difficult conversation for you to have at certain times?

SPEAKER_05

There are quite a few players who want feedback, which is really hard to do with that many people getting assessed. Uh a lot of times, if they don't meet the level that they're playing at, we'll give them a written warning. So it's my job to write up the assessment, say, these are the parts of your game that you're lacking. Uh, we'll come back, we'll come back in three or four weeks, come to see you again. And if you're meeting it, then you can stay. If not, then we'll have to move you down. Uh, but they do get a warning, so then they have time to work on it as well.

SPEAKER_06

Wow. Yeah, but that that news is probably not generally well taken because I think if I see one thing at our club, it's kind of like, you know, he'll I used to have this in golf too. I play with a guy who says, Oh, yeah, I hit one 300 yards the other day. And I'm like, you have no idea. Like, you probably fail grade 12 math. You did not hit that more than 240. But you know, I think there are certain players in pickleball that certainly have an impression of their game that doesn't match. And I don't think it helps them, and I don't think it's good for the game. So I love what you're doing there. I think it's, you know, maybe some difficult conversations at times, and maybe there are players that are underestimating. I'm sure it goes both ways. Like I say to you, Well, I'm a 3.2, and you go, geez, Mike, really, I think you're at least a 3.3. Like, you know, you're, you know, like I just think there are times when we we probably underestimate our ability and perhaps times we overestimate. So it's really great to hear a club taking that kind of initiative. I I think it just serves the game better. So yeah, that's really great stuff.

SPEAKER_05

I would say I see probably a 75% to 25% of people who see their game that they think they're better than they are, and then the people who they're that small percentage who don't think they're as good, but uh, I mean, they're the ones who get benefited in that.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Linda, in all the traveling that you've done, do you do you see different levels? Go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01

I just want to say one thing for Ottawa Pickleball Association. I know Jessica and Matthew have done demos, and Matthew did a demo not that long ago for fundraising for food bank. I think they did that quite often. And it just once or twice, two or three times. I just think it's it's a really good thing to say for on behalf of the Ottawa Pickleball Association.

SPEAKER_06

So yeah, it's great. Well, we volunteered at a food bank in Kingston for a while. Boy, there's that food insecurity is a whole new podcast. I mean, it's so the work that those food banks are doing are it's critical. And to see pickleball get, and again, it's pickleball, right? It yes, it's the Ottawa Pickleball Association, but without pickleball, there isn't that. So we go back to 1965 and we're seeing so many charity tournaments. I talked to a gentleman, uh, a voice within the industry in the States called Jim Closs. He's a pretty controversial pickleball analyst. And uh, you know, his wife was diagnosed with MS uh a few years ago. So they run an annual tournament to raise awareness and raise funding for MS. And it's really nice to see pickleball becoming part of the charitable part of, you know, the world in general. And I think it's only going to get better and better. So yeah, that's all really terrific. So, well, listen, I don't want to take up a whole lot more of your time. I love all of this, but I do have some parting questions. And I wouldn't mind each of you uh offering up your best tip for the average player. And it doesn't necessarily have to be shot specific. It could be from the mental side of the game, it could be from the warm-up side of the game, it could be from the drilling side of the game, it could be this is not a game for you, move on. Um, you know, you're not gonna figure this out. Forget it. Yeah, take your pool cue and move on. Yeah. But um, Linda, what would you say you'd offer up to someone that's sort of just kicking around the local courts, loving the game, but you know, kind of thinks they'd like to get a bit better. What what in your experience in traveling around, would you say this is really probably what most players miss?

SPEAKER_01

Have fun while you're trying to grow your sport, right? Trying to grow your game.

SPEAKER_06

I love that you echoed that today, Linda. I think it's probably the best piece of advice because there's a lot of advice out there, but sometimes we forget it is a game to have fun with, so that's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I will say, even at a high level, if you seem serious, it doesn't mean that you're not having fun. Because I have a friend who says, Oh yeah, the fours, they're not having fun. You don't hear them laughing. I have fun playing competitively.

SPEAKER_06

Sure, but you're in there to win.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, laugh, you know, except if you get an apple.

SPEAKER_05

Sure, sure. Yeah, well, I love you get body bang or need by your sister. That's one thing off my song. It's it is all about having fun though. Um I quite often I love giving back to the sport. I love playing with my friends who are tweet by poros. I love playing with the family. Uh it might not be as challenging, but it it's always a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_06

I love it. Yeah, Jessica, what would you offer on that comment?

SPEAKER_00

I think I'd say uh well, this is coming from a personal thing, but find balance. Um my boyfriend got into the sport maybe a year and a half ago, and as with a lot of people, he got obsessed and then went too far. He he's recovering from an injury. So find the right balance of like pickleball and other things, but yeah, have fun doing it.

SPEAKER_06

That's really nice. Yeah, I I took uh I had to take, I took off. I planned to take some time. I'd had a uh just a nagging shoulder issue. It wasn't anything serious, but enough that it was bothering me. And so we ended up doing a road trip. My wife and I when we retired a couple years ago. Our dream was just to get in the truck, throw the dog in the back, you know, in the backseat of the truck and drive across Canada and take in some of this wonderful country. And so we did that. We drove all the way across the country twice almost in the last few years. And so I got away from the game for a bit. The shoulders started feeling better. So I was away from the game for about, you know, almost 15 or 16 months. I didn't pick up a paddle. And I've come back to the game now in the last several months, and uh, I'm playing better than ever, you know, by my standard, you know, whatever that means, I'm playing better than ever. But I think it took some mental, I just needed to clear out some garbage in my head because I was playing six hours a day, five days a week. You know, I was doing what your boyfriend, I think, was doing and and it ended up hurting me. And it ended up taking a bit, to Linda's point, some of the fun out of the game. And and I was playing some regional tournaments, I did some true north tournaments, you know, I stood in the podium with a guy and we hugged each other and embraced and uh, you know, kissed our medals. And, you know, I had some fun with all of that, but I think I I hit a point where I was missing the essence of the game. And so great point uh that both you and your mom have made about all that. And don't take it too seriously. And Stephanie, where do you weigh in on all of that? What would your advice be to either a rec player or a new player coming into the game?

SPEAKER_02

Um I would say just try new things. It's really easy to get stuck in the things you're good at. And I'm really good at this shot, so I'm just gonna hit this shot. But it's there are so many different shots. There are so many different strategies. So just try something new. It may work, it may not, but there's no harm in trying.

SPEAKER_06

That's great. Well, that's been enlightened. And listen, of all the people on the screen, I think the one making the biggest difference, Stephanie, is you. I mean, I think you're dealing with the kids, and you're I of I often say that to keep it in the spirit of things here, but you know, it's just a game. We're just hitting a wiffle ball. We're not changing the world, you know, we're having fun. But uh what you do in that classroom, I think is it's very impactful. I don't want to miss that point with you today. So you may not be on the CNPL, but you're making a difference out there. So I appreciate that. It's uh teachers and coaches are so important to the kids. I know my two boys turned out the way they did in large part due to the experience that they had at high school and the coaches and all of that. So yeah, it's great that we've kind of wrapped up this part of the conversation, talking about the game. It's not, you know, we are not saving the world. We're making it better for our world and we're, you know, and and yes, for the broader sense of pickleball. But uh I think sometimes people do get uh into it a little too serious. So it's great that you've all echoed a bit of that this morning. Yeah, just terrific. Was there anything? Um, I've got one final thing at the end, but was there anything that any of you wanted to touch on today? Um, because I've got two favors to ask before we part ways here this morning, but I want to give you each a chance to offer anything else that you think maybe I didn't think about or has been kind of weighing in the back of your mind this morning.

SPEAKER_05

People always ask me how to get better. And I mean, everything takes time. Um, so you have to invest the time. I see some people who go out and drill and they they not they don't necessarily know how to drill properly. It's there are times where you can get the reps in, but then there are other times where how do you get that into a progressive mode where you're now putting in you're still drilling, but putting it into a game like situation versus just going from reps to games, right? So it's that middle ground, and I mean you don't have to put in as much time as me, but sometimes I'll put in a few hours for a shot that I know I'm I'm only gonna hit once in a in a game, right? Maybe not even so put in the time people switch. I see sometimes they go out and drill five minutes, five minutes, five minutes, five minutes on different things, and it's like, yeah, but you're not really getting the touches in.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Practice with purpose, I guess, is kind of maybe what you're saying in a sense, right, Matthew? I mean, it's yeah, I think we all even the warm-up, you know, I get a kick out. I'll see some people come in with their Starbucks coffee and their, you know, Apple fritter, and they'll jam that into themselves, gulp down their coffee, come out and go, all right, I'm ready, I'm good to go. I'm like, are you gonna warm up? No, I just did. Like, you know, I just did, I'm good. I'm like, okay. Yeah, because the injury side of it can take you out for weeks, if not months, you know, if not an entire season. So yeah, it's great. But practice with purpose and maybe warm up a little more might be two good things to think about. Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, I can't thank you enough. Linda, congratulations on all of this. I mean, parent to parent, I gotta tell you, these kids are amazing. Like, don't tell them that because they they've already got they've already got enough going on there. They're already rock stars in in the game of pickleball. So don't tell them I said that. But you you've got to be so proud as a mom. And I just know how proud I am of my boys. And uh, you know, to see you guys all together today, and there's obviously just a high level of love and respect for the game and for one another. And uh this has been just such a treat for me. I just really congratulate you on all you've done. It's been terrific.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. I'm very I am very proud. We are my Tom and I are very proud of our kids, and I mean they are well respected by fellow players, which is really it's it's good. They're nice kids, they're honest kids, and yeah, we are we are very proud of them and their talents too.

SPEAKER_06

Well, you know, there's yeah, there's that little part of it too, right? They're really friggin' good at this. Yeah, like I don't mind saying it. You're really good at this. So yeah, it's good, it's good for the game. And I think Barney McCallum and his group would be so proud to see, you know, this type of a of a situation. I think they would just this is everything that they were hoping for, you know, all those years ago. And so I I applaud all of you for being an important part of the integrity of the game and the brand of the game and and uh the equity within the game. So please keep doing everything you're doing.

SPEAKER_05

One more thing. Whenever we get together as a family, we always play pickleball. It's something we love to do together. For mental training, stick to your strengths. So mom likes to win, and mom always goes after us with tough shots that she wants to challenge us. But I always lose one of her biggest strengths is an aggressive cross-court ding that pushes people off the court. But when she gets in this mindset that she wants to beat us, she just goes at us. And I mean, yeah, we love it. She's probably not gonna win the fast game against us. But yeah, so it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_06

But she likes to get into the firefight. Let's go, let's go, you two.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Well, you know what though, Matthew, in all fairness to her, I'll defend her as a parent here because you know, um, my kids are 28, 25. I mentioned that before, but in my brain, like, you know, David's nine, Adam's seven. So when I'm across, you know, doing I'm like, I can beat this kid, you know. I I think parents Well, no, but I think parents kind of get into this time zone sort of, you know, this time capsule where we just we our kids kind of get frozen in time. We don't realize I'm I'm probably not gonna win this arm wrestle here. I'm gonna You know, there was a point in time I could pick both boys up, one in each arm and walk out the room with them. But if I tried that today, I'd throw my back out. So yeah, it's great. Well, this has been great. Listen, here are my two favors. My favorite number one is could I please um I'm gonna stay in touch with you over the next little while, you know, the next a year and a half, two years, whatever. And uh I hope the podcast keeps going. I hope I find some traction and some success with it. But if I do, I would love to have you all back and more at some point down the road for a catch up. If if this has been okay for you, it's certainly been thrilling for me. So I'd like a rain check to do this again one day if that's not too much.

SPEAKER_04

That'd be great.

SPEAKER_06

That'd be great, sure. And then the other thing is if we ever find ourselves on a court, I would love to play against each of you, but this is the paddle that you have to use. So okay, so I'm just trying to give myself at least a fighting chance. Okay, so it's a it's it's technically a coaster. My wife picked this up for me when I set up the podcast too. It's kind of cute. So yeah. So if you're willing to play with this, I'm willing to play with you. How's that sound? Fair?

SPEAKER_04

I'll do it.

SPEAKER_06

All right, I'm fi I'm 59. I got some miles on me, so I think it's yeah, and depending on how the first two or three points go, I may ask you to switch dominant hands. So if if if you're actually still winning, which you probably will be.

SPEAKER_00

He's actually pretty and extraous. Yeah, because so it won't help much with him.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, it's not good.

SPEAKER_00

I can't hit anything with my right hand. No, I'm I'm terrible. But he'll play left-handed and like have good games with like four or fives.

SPEAKER_06

Isn't that something? I love it. Yeah. Well, listen, this has been beyond exciting, and uh, I'm really honored to be a small part of this story. And uh, we're gonna do our part here to spread the news and put lots of show notes in here for information about the Ottawa Pickleball Association, of course, and uh the league and all of that great stuff. So so thank you all for being here today and your time. You've been so generous, and uh, it's been a real pleasure meeting all of you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Link, for asking us.