Canada’s Padel Pioneer

He Brought Padel to Canada 🇨🇦 | The Untold Story of Bill Stamile

What happens when one man stumbles onto a sport… and decides to change a country with it?

In this episode of Kitchen Conversations, I sit down with Canada’s padel pioneer, Bill Stamile — the man who brought padel from Argentina to Canada in 1992 and spent over three decades building it from nothing.

This is not just a story about a sport.

It’s about obsession. Vision. And the kind of persistence most people simply don’t have.

From a dusty warehouse court in Calgary… to helping shape the global structure of the game… to sitting at the table where the rules of padel were debated and defined…

Bill didn’t just introduce padel to Canada.

He fought for it.

“The minute I played… I knew I had to bring this back to Canada.”

We go deep into:

How padel was discovered on a beach in Argentina
The gritty reality of building the first court in North America
Why the sport “died” multiple times… and kept coming back
His role in the global growth of padel through the Canada Padel Federation
What’s happening right now across Canada… and why it’s about to explode

This is a story very few people know… but every player should.

Because none of this exists without people like Bill.

🔗 Connect + Learn More

🌐 Canada Padel Federation
👉 https://padelcanada.ca


🎯 Why This Episode Matters

If you’ve ever stepped onto a court…
If you’ve ever picked up a paddle…
If you’ve ever felt that instant pull of racket sports…

You’re part of this story.

You just didn’t know it.

🔥 Hashtags (Go Heavy)

#Padel #PadelCanada #BillStamile #RacketSports #Pickleball #Tennis #PadelLife #PadelCommunity #CanadianPadel #PadelGrowth #SportsInnovation #KitchenConversations #Podcast #YouTubePodcast #EntrepreneurStory #SportsHistory #PadelWorld #PadelFederation #ActiveLifestyle #Longevity #FitnessJourney #RacketLife #PadelNation #GlobalSports #PadelMovement

And that wraps up this episode of Kitchen Conversations.

If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who loves the game as much as you do.

And if you want the full experience, including the visuals, head over to YouTube and watch the episode at

https://www.youtube.com/@KitchenConversationspodcast

Or search Kitchen Conversations Pickleball Podcast

That’s where these stories really come to life.

You’ll also find links and show notes in the episode description.

Until next time…

more than dinks, drops and drives…

these are stories from behind the paddle.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, and welcome to Kitchen Conversations. Welcome to my podcast. We have one goal, one objective, and that is to get someone to pick up a paddle for the very first time and try this game of pickleball. Now, that said, we're going to step out of pickleball just for a moment and into the game of paddle. Now, you've likely been calling it Paddell. I know I was, but the truth is it's actually paddle. We're going to talk today to Canada's paddle pioneer, a gentleman named Bill Stomelly. Bill brought the game from Argentina to Canada in 1992. It's a fascinating story. He's one of the most passionate sports people I've ever met, I've ever spoken to, and it was a real honor to get to spend some time with Bill recently. He'll tell you all about the game, his passion for it, the work he's done, where it is today, and where he sees it heading. Well, Bill, welcome to the podcast. And uh a big thank you for being here today. I uh had a chance to talk to your son Andreas a few weeks ago. It was an enlightening conversation. He spoke very fondly of his relationship with you and how much the game meant to him. And of course, he's done amazing things within the sport of paddle. And uh so a real pleasure to meet him and a real pleasure to meet you today. So I want to start by saying thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

And uh thank you, Mike. Uh it's a pleasure being here. I'm looking forward to it. Uh the uh uh thanks for uh you know paying attention to our sport and it's uh it's growing and expanding in Canada. And anytime we have uh uh at least I have an opportunity to promote it, uh I uh I do so much appreciate it. And uh I hope that uh that I can say some things that uh that are gonna be fun and exciting for for all of us.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Well, absolutely. You know, it's something I play pickleball, Bill, but uh within my pickleball community, there's a lot of chatter and a lot of conversation around the sport paddle. And Andreas and I were joking a bit when we first met because we tend to call it Padell. You know, the the local group here continues. In fact, this morning I was at the club talking to a club member, and I was mentioning that I was gonna meet with you. And their first question was, Well, how do you say it? Is it paddle or is it pedal? And I said, I've got the official word, it's paddle. So we've cleared the air in Ontario. Just you know, I'll take credit for that this morning. But I did do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Well, you have full credit for that. Just go P A D L forget the E. So if you forget the E and paddle, you go paddle. And that's that's the button's close. Unless you're a Spanish-speaking like me and you go paddle, but that's yeah, let's not go that far.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yeah, well, it's an interesting conversation because, you know, I I heard about the game a few years ago, Bill, to be honest. And uh, you know, we kind of, as racket players, we keep our eye on the landscape of racket sports and we're intrigued and we're interested. And I even heard about a game a couple of days ago, a brand new one called Tip Tea. And I don't know if you've touched on that one yet, but it's a modified version of tennis. Yeah, the fellow that started it is Steve Bellamy, and you may know Steve Bellamy through, I think he was the gentleman that started the tennis channel back in the early 2000s and ultimately sold that. So I've reached out to him with some interest in what that sport's doing and where it's heading. But for me, Bill, personally, my wife and I are both very much into health and wellness and fitness and you know, looking for health and longevity. And so anything that gets people off the couch and gets them active and socially engaged, you know, I'm a bit I'm a big fan of. So the chance to talk to you, yeah, talk to you about paddle today is really something. I really have a lot of things I want to cover on the sport itself, how it ended up in Canada, the legacy that you've built, and your role in the game, Bill for sure. But would you mind starting for us by taking us back to your childhood a bit and tell me when sports first became part of your your life? And clearly it's defined you in so many ways, you know, through career and golf pro and paddle founder. And I mean, it's been such an identifiable part of who you've become. So if you don't mind, could you just run with that and give me a bit of background?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah, you you get a trickle out of this because I grew up in the uh sort of on the wrong side of the track in a suburb out of Buenos Aires. So we didn't have very much, and uh, other than a soccer ball, as you can imagine, my brother and I only got one brother. We for Christmas, I remember this clearly, we'd we'd all get a rubber soccer ball each. That was the big event. And then to make a longer story much short, we'd play with it. Of course, it would just, you know, it would just disintegrate because uh that was the deal. And then what we'd do is we would we'd stuff it with newspapers and elastic and entwine and keep playing for the rest of the year until both the balls were basically there was nothing left. So that's really what it was. In 1965, uh my dad, mom and dad decided to move to Canada for reasons that I can easily guess uh Argentina wasn't exactly uh with a lot of features, so we came up uh up to Canada. Uh I didn't know anything other than soccer. I remember in elementary school, I just sat there as a as a foreign kid with known maybe four or four or four English words, and and uh and I don't know, I I remember a ball coming to me. I thought, well, that's a weird-looking ball because it looks like a banana. It was a football. So I grabbed the football and I just kicked it. Apparently, I kicked it so far that the kids just, you know how we used to throw, kick the ball and catch it and throw it back. Well, they they just all went like this. And and I became a sudden, a sudden, you know, everybody wanted me to kick the ball. But uh that was elementary school, and then and then we went to junior high, and uh uh basketball and volleyball was uh was the two games, and uh, as it turned out, and not because you know I I was a big kid and you know, and I did really, really well in in junior high, uh, basketball and uh volleyball. I was nominated uh the uh uh the best uh um junior high athlete at St. Gregory's school in those days for what the last 20 years or something like that. And then after that, I went uh to high school, ended up being the top scorer in basketball in high school, uh, played volleyball uh as well. Um uh and then in 74 I was hired as an assistant pro at a golf course. Um got it to, I'm I'm hurrying up through this, uh I got it to about a plus two handicap in uh in golf. Uh didn't get any sponsors, so as it turns out, uh you know, I I'm not a Tiger Woods, but you know, I got pretty good in those days. In uh in 1976, I played volleyball for Montreal University. We ended up winning Canada West, which is a big turn to all the uh events. So we did that. Then I went up to U of A and continued my volleyball up there. Um so basically sport uh is what I graduated as uh as a phys ed uh uh education with phys ed major and recreation administration minor. And so out of uh University of uh of Alberta and um um just been involved in in sports uh all the way through a lot of volunteer work, a lot of coaching, uh soccer, of course, and all the sports that I just mentioned. So it's uh basically a big part of uh a big part of my life. Uh um so that's really what uh what it was. And uh I agree with you, you know, I don't care what you do, be act, get up off your butt, and you want to play pickleball, paddle, whatever it is, just do it. Um yeah, and uh and so I uh uh I I have a joke about pickleball just because you told me in the and uh when when people talk to me, Neil, you play pickleball. And then I say, listen, I'm 72 years old, I'm too young to play pickleball, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

So I'll play that later. I've got lots of time for pickleball. I love it. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, I'm just yeah, I'm just uh I'm just half kidding you, of course, that but I have fun with folks. But uh so that's uh in in the nutshell, yeah. Uh that's really uh my sport background, or at least my sports love.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

No, Bill, it's terrific. You know, it's such a passionate conversation that you can have around that. And, you know, both of my boys uh have benefited from coaches in their lives. We my wife and I hold coaching and coaches in very high regard. We think they're the most influential people in a kid's life at the right time. And going through high school, both my boys played volleyball, one of them basketball. Uh, you know, they've been active and continue to be active today, you know, in skiing and and outdoors and and so on and so forth. And I just don't think there's a better way for a kid to grow up. You know, put something in their hand and get them out the door. It's uh yeah, it's paramount today. So yeah, fantastic. I I think the, you know, we're lucky, Bill, when we find something in life that we love and and ultimately ends up paying us. I mean, that's the best combination in the world to do what you love and somebody's crazy enough to pay you to do it. I think it's just a terrific start. So, oh, that's awesome. What a career. Yeah, what a career. Well, thank you for that. It's a great introduction, Bill. I appreciate that. Tell me then about Paddle and tell me the very moment that you bumped into this wonderful game. Um, you know, I've got a lot of questions about it specifically, but I'd love to hear the very moment that you first kind of were wandering along, where that was and how that kind of ended up leading you to do what you've done over the last several decades.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, it's actually a cool story, but uh um we have three boys, and Andres, who who you've met, is our thirdborn. And my wife is uh from Argentina as well, from Buenos Aires. So you can imagine we did we lived in Canada. So when Andres was born in '91, we wanted to go over there around Christmas time and show them off to the grandparents on mother's side, etc. So the uh the grandparents were so happy, they said, listen, you know what? We're taking you guys to the beach for a whole month. And you might as well shoot me because me on the beach and whatever, what am I gonna do? Just sit there. So, uh, so anyway, we went to we went to the beach and I'd get up early, have my coffee, read my paper, and then I'm going to cheese. You know, what do I do? So I just started walking and walking. So all of a sudden, actually, all of a sudden, I see people walking around. This is my very first paddle, walking around with this implement, you know, and I go, what the hell is that? Because I played quite a bit of badminton as well. And then I didn't pay attention the first day. Then the next day I see more people. So I stalked them. I walked around and I go, I followed him, followed him. Sure enough, there's a beautiful cement-walled paddle court right in front of the beach. So wow. So I sat there and I sat there and uh for hours. In fact, so long, the first time I saw it, that they almost called the cops because they they were used to me going away and coming back, going away, coming back. I'm sitting there. And well, by the time, you know, they uh I'd sat there for so long, people were coming and going, and they needed a fourth. And and then somebody up there just went like this. Well, sure, why not? I, you know, yeah, you come over here. So I I get out there and I I think I had my clogs on or something, and uh and that was it. The minute I uh you know I played three minutes, I go, well, I gotta take this thing back to Canada. I mean, this is a fantastic sport, but but uh it's all Andreas' fault that we have paddle in Canada because uh we had to go shop. Next time you talk to him, you tell him that. But that's uh it's not my fault. No, it's it's all his. But that's how I first saw it. That's that's where the light bulb went on from you know, as as you and I spoke from my uh sporting background, it's just something about the sport and and the angles and the fun and it was social and people on, and I thought, wow, this is really, really cool. So it anyways, that's uh that's what happened. That would have been like a uh uh by March of '92, uh, I came back with magazines and God knows what else, and I created the Paddle Association of Canada to sort of uh plant the seed for the sport uh the first time.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Sure. Well, Bill, and I want to get into that in a bit of detail. But before we do, tell me, tell me, in your opinion, in all the experience you've had in sports and certainly in racket sports and specifically paddle, what is it about racket sports in a general sense that becomes so immediate uh and so addictive? Because for me it was pickleball, for others it's squash, for others, it was racquall, for some it's paddle. I mean, there just seems to be a common thread amongst racket sports and maybe sports in general, but I'm, you know, specifically focusing on racket sports with the podcast. But in your opinion, your professional opinion, let's go there with your with your background. What do you what do you think it is, Bill? Is it the social side of the games themselves? Is it the physical? You know, I'm curious about your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Well, you know, I played a lot of badminton. That's the only racket support I played was badminton. I got to be pretty good at it. I you have an implement in your hand and you have an object that you have to go hit with the implement in your hand. And and it's almost a quick gratification, whether you miss or not, you have something to do. Whereas if, for instance, if uh in in golf or something like that, you know, I ended up teaching myself, but very frustrating because you don't get that instant, instinct, you know, you you whiff, you whiff. But with uh with a racket sport, it seems to me to begin with, you say, you know, they the learning curve seems to be fairly quickly. Not saying you're gonna be a pro right off the bat, but at least you know what, I played, I got to hit a lot of stuff, I moved around, and and I there was some success there. Uh when it comes to the the doubles racket sports, you know, they then you start adding, you start adding the the teamwork, the socializing, the the the you know, the uh the the camaraderie, the the the friendship. It so it adds more to to it. But I think uh the uh the you know I mean vol volleyball and basketball, the same thing. It takes a while before you get that to the point where you say to yourself, well, you know what, I I actually kind of feel good about I've done something prop, but in in in racket sports, that's that. Now when it comes to the paddle part of it, and pickleball as well, actually doubles tennis and squash, you have a partner, you know, and and I think uh and I think that's a big part of this uh uh the the uh the the sport of uh of paddle is the uh is the fact that it you close in, you can hear what everybody else is saying, you know, or or not saying, and uh and uh and it helps for the the moment it's just uh it's a lot more special. Aside from all of the technique and the tactics and the angles and the loft, you use there's two-on-two and and uh and it seems uh that's a good part of the of our sport.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, for sure, Bill. It's great, it's great insight, and I agree with it. I think one of the one of my favorite things about being part of the community uh of pickleball specifically, but racket sports in the broader sense is the opportunity to introduce someone new to the game, you know. And for me, I've had that chance on multiple occasions to walk it onto a court with someone who's never done it. And I've yet to find someone, Bill, who has come off of that experience and said anything other than, how do I get involved? You know, how do I play more? How do I learn more? And and so I I'm very intrigued by it because your your point about golf's well taken. I mean, someone once said to me too, golf's one of the few sports, if if not the only sport, where nothing happens until you make a move. You know, you look at ice hockey, basketball, volleyball, there's always something in motion. But with golf, until you take a squat at that little white ball, you know, not a whole lot's happening. It's really on your terms and conditions when when that game starts and stops. So yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. So, Bill, let's jump into 1992. You've been down there, you've shown off Andreas to the family. Everybody tells you he's the cutest baby in the world, of course. And and he was, I'm sure. Yeah, a handsome young man, I'm sure, yeah. Tell me how the Calgary warehouse becomes part of your story. And subsequently, what was the groundwork that you were doing at that time and uh the passion, obviously, that you got. I mean, it was instant, which I which I find really fascinating. Now, it's one thing to say I I enjoyed the game. I got invited in, I met some nice fellas, and I played, but it's a whole nother story, Bill, to then decide to bring it back to your home country at this point in your life. I so tell me about that. Tell me about 1992.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Uh well, 90, yeah. Actually, the biggest sale uh sales I had in 1992 when I brought it back is my brother. And I we get along really well. And I said, Oh, you gotta see this thing, like, boom, I got records, I got big magazines, and he said, Look, I'm busy. I I I'm I got stuff to do. No, I said, You gotta drop your stuff. And because I um I had a friend of mine who was a uh an Olympian wrestler, and he had a warehouse that he he was training, you know, high high-level wrestlers, and on the other side there was a boxing club. So you can imagine, you know, sweat and bang and screaming, and uh Alex is name is his name. And I said, Listen, you know, I I've got this new sport and blah, blah, the ceilings are nice and high. Uh and we got a little bit of extra room. So he points to the corner. They had boxes and dust and everything. Yeah. I said, Look, if you can figure it out, you can just go ahead and use that. I don't need it for the time being. So that's so that's how we got the space. And then I had to go and figure out how to do it, because I'm I'm not a very good builder and tools guy, but my brother is. So I said, You got to build me a paddle court, you know. And he goes, What the hell is that? You know, well, paddle court. So I explained to him, and uh, but it was a big, it was a big to-do for me to get him to do that. Of course, now he's, you know, he's he's into the uh a lot. But uh so we we ended up getting the location. We we bought uh chain link fence, which is not what you're supposed to do, but that's what we did anyway. And we bought uh two by fours, two by sixes in plywood. And we built a court, it looked like a chicken goo, more than anything else, but it was perfect because Angelo's his name. He was 10 meters by 20 meters, perfectly squared. It was exactly what it ought to be, that there wasn't an inch off. And that's who we got to play. And being a uh a school teacher for a while, um, one of my students was a top tennis player in the province in Alberta here. And I said, uh Steve, I got this crazy little thing I want to talk to you about. I got this racket sport, it's not tennis, it's a tennis, but it's got walls and and um and I'd like you to come out and try it, but but it's a it's a doubles game, so you need to bring uh three other guys with you. And he says, well, you know, I've got my tennis and I teach, and I go, Oh, come on, you know, just come on over. He still called me Mr. Steele at the time because uh because of uh of our relationship. So so he they came out and I gave him paddles and balls. I explained to them, and sure enough, you know, um they started playing a little bit. And that competitive spirit, I think, you know, I don't care. Like if you and I have known each other for a long time, we've competed in, I don't know, baseball, soccer. It's always there, right? So these guys, even though they were in a different sport, it was a racket sport, and uh they were playing with this um there was a tennis ball of all things. And of course, um uh tennis players before you know, as soon as they start, you know, the balls are just going 100 miles an hour and they're hitting the back wall, and so I so that's what happened. But they got hooked. And I said, listen, you guys, um, I'm not gonna charge you anything. I just want you to play, but bring some more people out, and then I have a circle of friends, and then so that's how it worked out. And as it turns out, those same four are still playing to the very today. The very first four top players that played are still playing today. They've competed for Canada in many of the world championships that I've organized and taken them to. And so that's that's how how it uh the it started here at that grungy, dusty old.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

On the back of a boxing warehouse, almost, yeah. I can almost smell it, Bill. I can almost, you know, when I think about a boxing warehouse or a boxing arena and yeah, wrestling, all of that together. And there's a bit of irony for those of us that are on the outside looking in at the game paddle, because I've heard other people refer to it as kind of you know, like a cage match almost, you know. So there's a bit of a nuance there between perhaps the boxing and the wrestling for sure. What a great story.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Well, that's interesting. Interesting you say that because, well, first of all, Alex and the other fellow who was a top uh boxing coach, uh, he actually used to come over and play paddle because of the footwork. So they and you get bored, right? He says, All right, guys, that's enough of grappling. Let's get over here and build it. So I ran him through a bunch of things. But but the other interesting thing is that we had a karate group come in. And and the karate group, you know, and and and I said, sure, it's space and it's usable. So they uh, you know, the kids are uh screaming and yelling and doing this and that, and then and then the uh the the the gentleman says, Okay, now we're going in. And sure enough, right, as soon as you cross the door, you know, you do one of these and it becomes their dojo. And so uh so and then I got those kids to play. So as it turned out, uh we uh we just had a whole mishmash uh of uh of individuals and youngsters and elderly and the whole paid it that's how it started with one court. In fact, that was the very first court ever built in North America, not just Canada, not just Calgary. There was no battle in the continent, period.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

What a time. So what a start though. What a start, you know. And and you know, just think about the coincidence of all of this. I I'm at a point in my life now, Bill. I'm 59, so I've been around just long enough to be able to draw a line back in my life to certain events and certain decisions, certain choices that I made or I didn't make, and how those choices have had such an impact on where I am today. And and the funny part is in that moment when those decisions are being made, they're not particularly, you know, it's just either kind of this or that. And and but now that I'm a bit older, yeah, yeah. And and I think about you had you not have gone down, you know, to to visit with your folks and had you not have been there at that time, and had those guys not been playing, and had you not been a bit bored. And, you know, there were so many things that had to sort of coincide in order for you to be there in that moment, and I might add to be open-minded enough to interpret this as an opportunity. You didn't just say, well, this is neat and spend a bit of time with it. You you saw it immediately. It was in that moment, and subsequently, you know, back it comes to Canada. What an amazing story. Good on you. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Well, the other thing, uh too, Mike, is uh I know people from uh being fortunate enough people all over the planet. And a lot of them would have started as founders like I did, and they come and go, come and go. But there are very few, and I don't say this for any other reason, but it's the truth, there are very few people that have stuck with this game daily almost, all the way through for 34 years in the world. And so I I mean, I'm you know not that it means anything other than it's just that's how deep into this sport, uh into the sport I am where I was. But um, yeah, you're right, though at the beginning, it must have been something in my sporting background, the being open to things that they it's something clicked and it stayed there.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

But uh uh yeah, that's uh that's that's you know, Bella, just it there's certain people, you're one of them, and I say this with you know at the risk of embarrassing you, but there there are just certain people that that the world needs to show up at the right time and to do the right thing. And to have the passion to drive that idea forward because it would have been quite easier for you to just have taken it in as a casual moment in your life. Even the fact that you brought it back, you set it up in the warehouse in Calgary in 1992, that's all fine and dandy. But to be able to stick with it, my my father-in-law had something. He he had great stick'em. We used to call it stick'em because when he sunk his teeth into something, yeah, when he stuck when he decided something was going to happen, a hundred people, Bill, could tell him it was a bad idea. And sometimes it was. Honestly, it was sometimes it was a bad idea. But yeah, he would stick with it. And uh, and he you know was very successful in in his endeavors. And and I admired him for that. And he and you know, one of the qualities that he carried forward that I, you know, I I couldn't quite get to the point that he got to, but he was never afraid of anything, you know, risk, reward, he just threw it all on the table and and he went for it. So I admire that in you. I admire the tenacity.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

I identify with that. To add to actually use Farkamp thing, you to add to this, uh, Paddle actually died in Canada about three times. Because it died because they needed they needed the space at the at the first place at the um at the warehouse. And so, Bill, you got it two months and we need the space. So it died. Oh, geez, you know, what are we gonna do? And then uh the the people that came out there, they they uh they were teaching at a semi-private club called the Edgemont Club here in Calgary, and they said, listen, uh, we'll talk to the owner, because he's got an outdoor tennis court, and uh they hardly anybody ever uses it. So the owner, being a visionary that he was, with these the the help of them, we ended up fast forward. We ended up uh taking the outdoor tennis court and putting two beautiful concrete walled paddle courts, and that's where the sport was until 2002, 2002, right? And so that's what we did. Our nationals are national team training. That's where paddle was. There was no paddle anywhere else in in Canada. And then it died because he sold it, and the sport died for about six months until uh I, by accident, I ran across a school, uh which the courts are still there now, and I went over and talked to the principal. He said, I love the idea. Uh well, I don't have any money. You know, we're a school, we don't have any money, but it's there. Talk to the community, talk to the school board to make a long story short. I don't know how that we did it. That's probably one of the most magical things ever done in the history of the sport. They actually all agreed to it. He said, Look, you you go ahead and use it if you need to. Um, so we did that. Uh and so it came alive again. And then uh and then it died. It died in uh well about 10 years ago, in my view, because a different group of individuals took over the sport, and uh not much has happened uh since then. But but persistence, it's just you know, I I never even questioned it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

It just it needs to well, sometimes we find our calling, and we're not really sure why, but you know, we find ourselves just so connected to something, Bill. It's just impossible to let it go. And no matter what happens, and no matter what those challenges are that come along, we just find a way through it. You know, we just find a way to either work uh you know around it or through it or over it or under it, but there's there's always a solution. So so so all of that happens in 1992, which is a fascinating part of it. How does the sport then grow? Give me a bit of a history on from that first court to kind of all of the work that you put into it, the travel that you did, you've been around the globe, you're an advocate and ambassador for the game, you've been involved in in it at the highest levels. It just seems like, you know, from that inception, and maybe that could have just been it. I mean, maybe had it not been you, it would have just kind of been that warehouse and people played it for a bit of time and away it went. But you took it to a whole different level, Bill. Tell me, tell me your story on that.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah, because I didn't look at it as a business, you see. I looked at it as a as something that I thoroughly enjoyed and I was so so happy about it. I want everybody else to enjoy it too. But but 92, uh so then then when we went into the semi-private club, uh, we uh that's where we started to start developing players and leagues and et cetera, in our own little way. We only have two courts. Uh we went to the first tri-national tournament that our friends in Mexico invited us to in Acapulco, and I took the, you know, the guy, the gang that I told you about earlier, they went there, uh, you know, have the uniforms and all that stuff. And in fact, while they were playing, they were still asking me, you know, is it okay if I volley the ball or do I have to let it bounce? You know, one of those situations. So the great, the very gracious Mexican friends of ours said, You're here, your flag is here, you're excited, don't worry about it. You win, you lose, it doesn't matter. So we did all of that. Uh we went to Tri-Nationals, the very first world championship that we went to was a Mendoza, Argentina. So we trained in the first place, we took the kids over there. Uh, and then uh in 1996, we went to Madrid for the World Championship there. And uh we had to put it the men played fairly well. They ended up, I believe, ninth in the world in those days, and which for us, you know, you're only playing a few months and we only had outs. And then we uh we did we uh we just kept going back and forth uh to all of the world championships, developing more of the sport, but it was only really in Calgary and we had the three, four courts in one site that uh that we played at. Uh after the um, sorry, in 2002, the the owner of the club uh that we were at sold it and we had to somewhere so at the school. Uh that's where really uh everything happened. Um yeah, just traveled, uh traveled all over the world, juniors and seniors. So um uh the a couple of highlights that were um uh that we did. It's uh in 2008, and actually in 2006, while we were uh playing in that semi-private club, we had some people together and I said, look, something big has to happen here. I know people all over the world are growing the sport. I shouldn't say all over because there's only 15 countries then, and we got to do something big. Uh and so that's why the the that planted the seed, uh, because I knew some of the guys at the World Federation said, look at what would it take for Canada to host a world championship? And they gave me a list. And so uh very ambitious. Um almost didn't happen because I go to the I went to the board and I said this is what we're gonna do, and and well, that's too big for us, we're too small. I go, no, it's not. So anyway, to make a long story short, 2006, Spain. We made a presentation. I had the tourism cavalry that backed us, the province that backed us, the city that backed us. We're gonna have the world championship in 2008. And so uh uh so that's uh that was a big event for us, and it should have it should have taken us to a different level, but it didn't. Uh there just wasn't enough momentum. And so so the and and all along, you know, we kept bringing new people, new people in, and the people that traveled to Canada would know of us and and you come over and play. Then 2008 happened, and uh uh it was the very first time that uh the World Paddle Championship was held in a non-Spanish speaking country. Uh, you know, fully bilingual, of course, so so that's I was able to do that. So whoa, you know, so they came to Calgary. And uh uh, of course, we didn't have enough facilities to do that, so we ended up re uh renting a soccer bubble, soccer center. We put up my brother, actually we put up the four courts that we played the world championship in, and we had some other outdoor courts at the school. And so we had 15 countries, uh seven languages, 220 uh players, volunteers coming out of our yin yang, and we pulled it off even to this very day. I still get calls, people say, Stamili, when are you gonna have another world championship there? You know, we like, you know, we like the city, the people, it was great, and this, you know, the banf bump and the the Lake Louise and all that. I go, well, listen, if I had the structures that I would do tomorrow, but uh we we weren't able to do that. So that was 2008, and Andreas actually in his 17th year then, he coached uh, well, he was coaching everybody, but he coached a ladies' team, and he ended up fifth in the world. That was the best finish ever for the Canadian ladies uh paddle team. I'm not sure when that's gonna be duplicated. That was 200 uh eight. Uh and in 2009, of course, we had our best showing, which was uh in Seville, uh, the last uh year that Andreas played and coached. So the boys came in third in the world. So when you read when you read the history of paddling championships, and you you know, you go Argentina, Spain, Brazil, Mexico, then all of them, Canada, you go, wait a minute, it must be a typo. Well, that was our uh that was an incredible, an incredible uh uh event uh to go and uh as a father, but also uh, you know, he played in against somebody that was uh ended up uh Paco Navarro, which ended up being one of the top players in the world. He was playing against uh Andrews and his partner, and they lost 6'4, 6'4. So, you know, had I been a uh had I been a better father, and uh I I should have I could have I could have taken him out and uh I just couldn't figure out a way for him to uh to go to uh you know what do you call it to Europe and and train, etc. But uh as it turned out, uh you know, he stuck with the game. But uh so that that's that's sort of the how how we came uh uh to to that point. Um then we had a couple of world championships in Cancun. So those are kind of semi-memorable because we didn't do all that well. But uh, and then after that, our last world championships that Canada ever played in was 2014, and we haven't done anything, we've sort of disappeared off the map since, which is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

But yeah, what was that moment like though when when Andreas like to place that well in the world? And to your point, people thinking that must be a typo. Why is Canada why is Canada listed here? That for you and all that you had done up to that point, Bill, that must have been a moment.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

That was uh, it's you you go you from my coaching background, you always prepare your kids and say, listen, first we're gonna have fun, second, we're going to compete as best as we can, and third, it's memorable. You're gonna be putting, you know, they in those days you don't appreciate it, but you're gonna be able to tell the whole world for the rest of your life you represented the flag in your country, etc. But but I'll tell you, I have to give a lot of credit to the parents and their support. Um uh, you know, I spent a lot of times on court and so did Andreas, and you know, we went through the through the uh uh the the uh all the motions and uh they just never uh never gave up, you know. And uh and you know, we had uh certain things that when you play more paddle, you'll know. I said when you play against better teams, I said all you gotta do is be defense, defense, defense, you know, and uh and and uh and I have some wonderful friends in Spain, by the way, but uh uh and I said the Spanish have this thing about you know Canadians, you know, not that you know all you gotta do is keep staying the point and they're gonna get frustrated and they're gonna get and that's what happened all the way through. All the the three and they got frustrated and uh uh they ended up beating us anyway, but but as it turned out, that that uh what do you call it? You know, you you finish playing against Spain, and it's I don't know, like Jamaica playing against Canada and hockey or something, right? So you feel but we did fairly well, and that momentum took us there. We ended up meeting Mexico and Brazil, and uh which is like unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

But uh uh what a moment that was for uh for everybody. Well, and and again, to go back to everything that you had done to build it and and you know, starting with that Calgary warehouse bill and to see it kind of evolve into what it did. I mean, it did you have any sense that that was the plan when you were beginning to build this? Was the goal to be on the world stage?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Well, yeah, I I yeah, one of my uh yeah, I I have the big vision things, you know, like the uh in a lot of ways in paddle, anyways. Um years ahead of uh of where uh a lot of people are just you know, my training, my background, I guess my family, we don't think small, we think big. Uh I didn't uh what actually I'd go the other way. What surprised me, Mike, because I saw what was happening around the world, what surprised me was the fact that we didn't get more traction, that we didn't have more interest. You know, we were so far away from the epicenter. Like if you and I are in Sweden and uh and we're in we were talking to an investor, you say, listen, let's take a boat, let's take a train, and we're in Spain and Portugal, and the battles there, right? Whereas in our case, it was so far away that uh it took uh it took a long, uh, long time. So I was somewhat frustrated in that. I you know, I helped uh when I was a uh as a vice president of the World Federation, I helped help a lot of countries start from scratch, and they just way took us over. And uh even to this very day, and we uh you know we were we stayed a little bit behind.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

But uh well and tell me about tell me about that work, Bill. Tell me about going around the globe and helping other countries get you know involved in the game and what was that experience like in that part of your life?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Well, it's wonder it's wonderful. The uh incredible actually. The um uh I was invited by one of the uh uh I believe it was uh it might have been Italy that said, listen, you should be on the board of the World Federation. I said, you know, how big in Canada, but you know, uh and I ended up finding out later on that there's two official languages in in Paddle, there's English and Spanish. And so for the 12 years that I was there, I was the only bilingual guy that uh that that the World Paddle Federation had in their directorship. I did the translations and all that other stuff. But but uh uh they they charged me with said, listen, uh, why don't you, because of your uh this and et cetera, why don't you take over the uh the membership portfolio? And uh what that meant was uh you know, I'd get calls, uh we we would get calls that would be transferred to me. He said, Bill, there's somebody from Sweden, Lithuania, Ireland, that they want to do this paddle thing. So I would take them literally. Let's say you're you would have phoned me, and the best example is a fellow from Sweden, I still remember his name, his name is Tommy Anderson was his name. And he phoned me up in 2010, and he says, Listen, I did this paddle thing, uh, I built a court in my backyard, what do I do now? And I go, well, what do you want to do? And he said, Well, I'd love the sport I want to do that I'm gonna bring to Sweden. So that's as an example, I just duplicated what I did. I said, okay, so what you gotta do is you have to create an association first, because that gives you structure. If people say, is this a Tommy Anderson game or what? No, no, I said I have an association, we represent our flag country. And then as soon as you do that, Tommy, let's get you into the World Paddle Federation so that now we have bigger structure that you can go by. So have that was 2010. By 2014 in Sweden, it was it just uh it just went crazy. But um, I ended up uh putting together the because you can't just say, listen, my name, my address, and I have this. So I ended up putting together about seven or eight, it was eight points that you needed to do in order for you to qualify to make a petition to join the World Paddle Federation. It's still being used today. And so so you go through, you got to do your bylaws, you gotta do nonprofits, you gotta do there's a whole bunch of things you need to do to give you the same structure in every country. So that was uh that was a proud moment for me, in that you know, the uh uh it it worked to the point. So anytime somebody joined, they're using the same the same idea. And uh, and you know, I got to travel, I went to Japan and Ireland and Portugal and all these other places that uh where they invited me and said, look, you know, you helped us with come on over, we'll cut ribbons and smile a lot. You know, we can do that. So that uh uh that was an incredible, you know. I sat uh um I sat uh uh at the well federation meetings when we were deciding that the the width of the paddle courts is gonna be 38 mils. No, no, Mike says they want to be 40 mils. No, it's too big, and no, and then Larry says they want to be 36. Uh and then the and then the net uh has to be done like this, and then the lighting, and then the turf. So all of the stuff that you we see on the paddle courts, I shouldn't say all of the stuff, a lot of it, I was so fortunate to sit there. I actually got an opinion on it. I said, no, I don't think this is I'm not claiming anything, but the fact that can you imagine, can you imagine sitting there, I don't know, in a in in a hockey meeting, I don't know, a hundred years ago and saying, listen, you know, we want the the the red line and the blue line and all this. Well, that experience was uh unforgettable. And the friendships and the the the um the um the friends and uh contacts I have all over the planet are just almost infinite, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

And uh so that was really, I tell you, really, really well to be able to lend after everything you had done to that point, Bill, the chance to be able to weigh in, to have a voice at the table, you know, and and to have an influence on that. And and certainly the level of respect that the room would have had at that point for all that you had done already and your passion. And I think that's probably your greatest asset. I think your passion, you know, it's just it's so infectious. And I think that, you know, it it passion can how do I want to say this? Passion is such an important part of success, you know, and whatever we're our endeavor is, if we're not passionate, we've always said to our, we've got two boys, one's 28 Bill, the other 25. And we've always said to both of the kids, you know, passion before paycheck. And what we always meant by that was if you don't believe in what you're doing, it it will not work out well and it never ends well. So yeah, what a moment. But you, you know, for those that are playing the game today, and I think this is one of the things that I hope, you know, in some small way, podcasts like mine and and others are able to share and shed the light on the game a bit more. But people walk into play. There's people playing paddle in Canada somewhere right now, as you and I are talking. And probably many of them don't have a deep appreciation or even a you know a narrow appreciation for what has happened and and how it is that they're there this morning. So yeah, I think getting that that story out and sharing that's a really important thing to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Well, the uh that's an interesting one, Mike, because the uh the 2022 uh Ignacio Sotorja, which basically is the almost a co-founder of Paddle in Mexico, dear friend of mine, uh, he put together what he calls the paddle museum. And uh so he invited me and Ed Thompson, who was the founder of Paddle in the United States, he invited me and Ed, uh we're called the Three Amigos. Uh so we went we went to Acapulco to this big to-do uh and the and uh the paddle museum. So, you know, I was inducted in the paddle museum and I said, listen, you're much appreciated and all that, but you know, I'm not a dinosaur. It's usually dinosaurs you put in museums, but but it was a fun, it was a fun thing, and and the history really, the early stage history that uh uh is massive because I remember Ignacio and Ed and I said, listen, you know, uh uh Ed said, look, I want to have a tournament uh in in Houston. And and he said, Well, we can you can you bring some guys over and fly the flag and Ignacio Well I it's gonna be tough, Ed, but I'll figure it out, you know? And we did figure it out and we go. But it wasn't uh but it was a whole bunch of passionate guys doing it for the sport. It was money. In fact, I do golf tournaments to to to subsidize trips for people to go to these places, right? And so so it was it was all passion. And the three amigos, when we talk, uh uh it was the same thing, you know. Um people just don't appreciate it. In uh 2022 as well, in November, we went to uh to Malaga, Spain. And in Malaga, Spain, in Malaga, Spain, it was uh Enrique Corqueta, which is the the inventors of the game's son, Ignacio from Mexico, myself and Ed that were invited to go to uh to go to that big symposium, Paddle Symposium there, uh, to talk about what we're talking about now. I mean, how, you know, what happened in in those early days? You know, I said, well, you know, and that's what we sat there. I said, and somebody asked me a question from the crowd. I said, look, you know, there's a whole bunch of guys that are around here that are making two, three, four hundred thousand euros a year playing the sport. There's uh there's uh people that are making a lot of money making courts with paddles and tourism and all that. Well, you know where it started? You know, it started by what I just told you, Mike. A bunch of crazy guys early on. Uh we were all friends. There was no hanky-panky stuff when you all supported each other for the level of love of the sport.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

So that's well, you know what I miss, Bill? I miss the handshake. And what I mean by the handshake is there was a time when you could sit across a table from someone, make a deal, shake hands, and stick to it. And, you know, we we ran a small company here in Ontario, Bill, for about 50 years, part of our family uh and uh part of our legacy. And we're very proud of the work that we did with that organization. But, you know, we weren't disappointed when the boys decided they didn't want to be the third generation. And the reason for that was we just saw such a uh, you know, a delusion, a delusion of loyalty and trust. And, you know, everything became contract-driven. And uh yeah, I kind of missed it. I got into the family business in the late 80s, you know, just sort of on the cusp of that starting to shift and change. But I remember very vividly when I, you know, the realization that that had shifted. So to hear, you know, the origins of the game and the trust and the friendships to get developed, all for the betterment of the game, promoting the game and doing it in a way that made sense. Yeah. Yeah. And the money, it's an interesting part of the conversation today, Bill, because you know, we can apply this brush to a lot of different things in the world today. But, you know, when we start putting profit before people, it doesn't end well. And when an opportunity is there, inevitably, you know, somebody's gonna come along and try to figure out a way to make money off of it. So, you know, you can't avoid it, but you're just hoping that, you know, the game is the most important part and continues to be the most important part of that.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

So well, it's happening it's happening today, Mike. And I, you know, go to a bunch of seminars and stuff and and uh and uh there's some investors that the last symposium I went to, you know, and uh and it's you know what uh what do you think, uh Bill, the would make for a good club? You know, so I said, Well, it's multi use, multi purpose, uh an epicenter for activity and this and that, bring the moms and dads here. Uh these are you know, I know what are you gonna charge for hour per court? I go, well that's part of it. First of all, you gotta create the atmosphere, you gotta create the club, and then you and and so then well I don't care about that. I wanna uh I wanna put a an automatic pay system so that I wouldn't have to have staff and it and and the conversation for me, it just I just went all you hear is you know at that start that I said okay, that's if that's what you want to do with my sport, not my sport, I don't want to talk to you. Now, if you want to build a community, you know what you want to be a hub of the community, paddle is part of it, you bring the kids, you bring everybody, then then then we can talk. And the money will come from service and from the people having fun. But if you go into it and say, listen, I'm gonna make uh you know 85 bucks an hour instead of 60 because then I don't know how to talk to you. But there's a lot of those on the one hand, but on the other hand, though, Mike, we we need private money and and funding to make clubs and stuff. So there's a balance. But uh there's a there's a saying uh that uh in the old town of my uh mom and dad used to say to me, just be careful not to leave the kitchen door open because you know the cockroaches will get in. And he says, but there's never just one cockroach, you know. So so you know, we can't keep the door closed, but uh there's much more of us, let's say, than there are of the people that uh will look at our sport as just an opportunity, they'll move on to the next gig.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah. Well, you know, it's happening in pickleball. I had a chance yesterday to speak. It was very, very, you know, just a tremendous opportunity to speak to a pickleball hall of famer yesterday, a guy named Steve Peranto.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Yeah, and you know, he's much uh, you know, he was in the first tournament ever organized in 1976 and you know, great legacy in the game, but but all about the you know, advocating for the sport, Bill, and wanting it to remain what it once was. And, you know, we didn't get into a deep discussion on it, but Steve is one of those guys, uh, and there are many of them in the Hall of Fame that are concerned about uh, I think how the sport's you know evolving and paddle technology and and where all of that's heading. So yeah, well, that's all been really terrific. Can we wrap this part of it up, Bill, by you giving me a sense of where the sport is today in Canada? You've mentioned uh briefly that it's kind of maybe in a holding pattern right now. Can you expand on that a bit for me? Give me a sense of where it is and where you would like to see it go, let's say over the next couple of years and what needs to happen in order for that to occur.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yeah, it if we had had this conversation, let's say three years ago, even, it would be different when it comes to this topic right now, because there was uh one club in Montreal that was thinking about it in Toronto, nothing in Vancouver, even nothing in just Calgary, basically. But but since then, uh and and uh I attribute it a little bit to the uh the um the quick growth in the United States. You know that we all travel amongst like this and even in Calgary people, you know, I was in Houston and they were playing paddle, and how come we don't have more clubs and I was in Arizona or LA or whatever. So because of because of the buzz and activity, and I mean there there I mean Agassiz is in it and and not Maradona, Jeez. Uh a lot of the big big people are playing over there, so they've created a lot of buzz and it's sort of spilled over to us now. So the investors over here seem to say, okay, well, you know, you got a club in New York that's charging $120 an hour to play, and they have all of this and then the other. So so where we're at today is is and and I um um going back a little bit, I get phone calls all the time from people with ideas, and I'm helping, I always help them. So so we have uh from Halifax all the way to Victoria, a lot of interest in the sport, creating clubs and expanding expanding clubs. So I uh I think it's beautiful. Now we have a stronghold in Montreal finally. We have a stronghold in the Toronto area, a little bit in Ottawa coming. Uh Vancouver's now about two, two, three clubs. Uh Calgary is still the epicenter as far as activity goes, not for too long. So now it is, and Edmonton has one club. Okay. So I'm happy with where we are the last say 18 months. Right. I mean, it took 33 years to get here, but the 18 months are here. And I think it's unstoppable night. Yeah. Um I'm gonna take my my nonprofit hat off and put my other one off. And whether you like it or not, you know, we like it or not, you you you take one tennis court. If you and I are owners of a club, you take one tennis court and say, well, the most I can have there's two on two, and it's usually one-on-one. Or if you can take that same square footage and go one, two, three paddle courts. Now we have four, eight, twelve. It's it's a racket-light sport. Uh uh, it's just an extra add-on to my membership. I'm not saying, let's say, we're gonna go from paddle to archery or anything. And so, so the um uh so it's it's it makes a lot more sense to be able to do that. Uh, not just that, you know, there's golf courses that have spoken to us that listen, you know, you should put paddle in there. Okay. Why? Because well, you have the membership, you have the land, you have the pro shop, you have the change room, you have the rest, you have everything. And well, why would we do that? Well, it's a it's a sport that it's something different, and it's uh it's uh it's a it's fitness, it's exercise. So they're saying, yeah, maybe you're right. You know, we what are we gonna do with this chunk of land over there? You know, they're putting they're putting uh they're putting on uh a lot of the developments that are there in uh in Europe, for instance, if you want to build uh, I don't know, 50 homes. You put some paddle boards in there. As as you know, it used to be tennis, right? Yeah, just tennis, which is great, but now it uh it's built to uh uh to to a lot of paddles. So so when it comes to the Canadian development, uh I just you know if it just duplicates today what has happened in the last 18 months, I'd be thrilled. That means we'd have um uh pretty well across Canada. Uh Saskatchewan and uh and uh and uh Manitoba have had some ink some uh calls, but not that many. But basically, you know, pretty well everywhere else Canada wide, it's is really taken off. So um yeah, that's you know that's great. Just keep it going.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Yeah, it's great. Well, it's uh it's nice to hear the enthusiasm, Bill, you know, because you've been through so much. You mentioned that died three times when it first started, you know, uh not not any fault of anyone, it's just circumstance and things happen. So you kind of pick up the pieces and put get the defibrillator out and give it a shot and away we go again. So yeah, to hear it's alive and well today and doing great is is terrific. So well, thank you for all of that. One of the things I and you know, and going back and watching the video and the podcast that I did with Andreas earlier, which we've mentioned, Bill, the one thing I I was embarrassed after the fact. Uh, you know, we're trying to well, we're I'm embarrassed because I forgot to ask about the game specifically and how it's played. And and it was a big miss on my part. We I we just got so engaged in our conversation. I was careful with the clock, as I mentioned earlier. So I just lost track of that. So I one of the most important parts of my conversation with you today is this is going to be heard by people that may have never heard of the game, possibly, uh, but probably primarily by people that have heard of paddle or paddle, as they like to say. And I think they're going to be curious how it's played. You know, we understand the game of pickleball. And if there's one thing about pickleball that's hard to figure out, it's the scoring. So could you walk me through, if I'm coming to you and saying, explain the game to me, how do I play? Can you walk me through how the game is structured and how it's played?

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Yeah, there it yeah, we would be here an hour. But I'll uh I do free clinics uh at our club. Um a lot of the people play paddling calories have gone through my rickety all free clinics on Saturday mornings. So if I pretend that you just showed up and you might um my first question to you, have you had a racket sport? You might say yes, and you might say no. If you say yes, we will play off of tennis, squash, or racquetball. I go, well, it's it's uh first of all, we we go through the grip and uh and it's a basic grip. You go through the stance and then uh and then it's a doubles game. Then I explained to them the scoring. Scoring is tennis. 15 love, 30 deuce. You know, I'm sorry, but you know, we should have said, you know, one, two, three, four, five, but it we didn't. So that's that's what it is. And then and then we uh we go into uh uh that's I say paddle is is a patience game. Paddle is a spin game, it's it's a soft game until the ball is hanging, and then that's when you can attack it and hit and hit it hard. So so you want to you want to hit a lot of spin into the corners and make them die. You want to keep the ball alive. The only thing you do is hit the ball over the net. I don't care where it goes, you're forcing the other people to play. So one of the strategies, biggest strategies that you have is that. So when I when it when we start, I actually have people you know get used to the racket first, you know, and and the the power of the of the of the racket because it's actually, even though it doesn't have strength, as you know, it is actually the ball comes off of it pretty pretty quick. So so you wanna you wanna play, it's an underhand serve. So I say it takes 30 seconds instead of 30 years to learn how to serve. We're not throwing it up in the air. And when you're serving, you just get the ball in. Because unless you're at an elite level, it's just you're just starting the point. So start the point, get going. Uh we have issue we have a whole bunch of drills where I I I uh you cannot get a point until the ball goes over the net three times. And you well, why is that? Because we you want to get into the point, you just hit it over. You don't win paddle on the first or second or third point. You gotta wait until people uh um you know get out of position. So so uh so basically it's just you it's it's a sport where where you uh you hit the ball soft, you have patience. If uh one of the best shots you can hit is a lob, believe it or not. Yeah, oh my God, you know, the ball's over my head. And so you get up there, you hit a lob back, it gives you and your partner a chance to readjust, and you're back there again. Uh when it comes to the walls, uh I can't show you here, but basically what I do is is uh I stand people, I said, most of the time, you know, uh as humans, you know, you throw something, and your first reaction is you want to go get it. Okay, well, what happens in paddles is the same thing. So I bounce the ball, it hits the wall, and the first reaction, if you haven't played, is you you turn around, you want to go get the ball, and then you realize the ball's going the other way. So so I said, that's you know, eventually, I know it's frustrating now, but eventually the walls are gonna be your friend. Because if you can read the speed, you say, Well, I'm gonna not gonna play this, I'm just gonna let it bounce. And as it's coming to the middle of the court, I'm gonna meet it at the middle of the court and just put the point away, as opposed to, you know, just standing there and you can't do that. So so the game is played uh in conjunction. There's a lot of conversation between players. You know, you gotta always say it's my ball, it's your ball, hit a lob, look out. Um uh and you know, it it's so it's not uh a quiet game, let's say. So uh so you have to always be in communication with your partner. Uh lobs are a good shot. You have to hit a lot of spin because it makes the ball die. If you hit top spin, uh the ball will bounce, crawl up the wall, and be way up here as opposed to slicing it into the back corner. Um and and that's uh basically it. The other thing is the volley is uh a lot of times what you do is just grab the, you know, I um uh in beginners, I just have them stand there. I said, look, you just hit hold your paddle and don't do nothing. And I'll throw the ball at them. The ball will hit the paddle and actually go back. I go, you see? You so your your object number one is your objective number one is to get to the ball and you paddle to the ball. And then most of the time it's gonna do it for you. Again, if we go back to golf, you can't just put your club there. You gotta do something with it. Well, with paddle, you use the energy coming your way, right? You might just hit the ball towards me. I'm gonna use your energy and I'm gonna do something with that energy. Either stop it, angle it, slice it, or lob it. Do something to that effect. So, so and you and you're going back and forth uh with uh with your player. So you um in badminton we play this way a lot of times, right? Or front and back. In paddle, in paddle, you uh you're winch towards. So you you if the ball's on this side of the court, you go this way. If the ball's on the other side of the court, you go that way. You can't do this. You always want to come to the middle. Or if the ball is to the net, you go forward, both, or you go back if it's a law. So you're always like this. So it's almost like you have a uh uh a string tied between you. So you work in in conjunction with your partner, you talk to your partner. Um you it's it's a game with uh it's it's it's almost like chess on a pitch. You know, you don't uh if you when I first watched the top-top players play in you know in Israel, I said, geez, this can't be the top guys. Because they're hitting a little soft ding-ding ding-ding-ding. Oh, boom, all of a sudden the ball's away.

unknown 56:30

Ah.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

So they're setting it up. And this is even if you just start, you you need to set up your point. Don't hurry up and and uh and try and win the point because you're gonna end up losing. And just have patience and more patience and more patience. Eventually, uh eventually the uh the um the shot will be there for you to uh to do what you wish with. But uh uh It's a again, it's a patience game, fun game, and you have to talk.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

It's all it's always a doubles game. I just want to clarify this. It's never played at singles, always a doubles. You mentioned earlier that the size of the court would basically on a single tennis court, you could stack three paddle courts. So that gives the listener a sense of kind of the size of the court. We've got a solid wall on each end. We've got some kind of fencing around. And tell me about the surface that that you're playing on specifically. You're calling it a pitch, but what is that made of? Is it a synthetic product?

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Yeah, I've played on three, yeah, I've played on three surfaces. One is if you put the paddle court, um uh the 33 by 66 foot rectangle on a tennis court, you're playing on uh basically asphalt with uh rubberized paint, right? Uh I've played on uh well, we have our little club at uh in Caugi inside a uh a hockey arena, uh we have uh sport court. There are plastic, plastic squares. Okay, so that's a second, and then most, if not everybody in the world plays paddle on artificial turf. It's artificial turf with a little bit of sand in it to give a little bit of slippage as opposed to you know grabbing and and coming over. So there's I've played on all three. Uh the one that uh that I like the best, believe it or not, is the plastic one, the plastic ones, because they're not there's a little bit of give there, and I have an Achilles uh issue. And so if I if I plant, yeah, if I plant and and and uh you know then it doesn't take me long for me to wobble around but uh on that in that court. But the official, official court, if you want to call it, that plays on turf. Nice. Uh artificial turf. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

And Bill, a moment ago you'd pulled the paddle off the shelf behind you. Do I see a a ball back there as well, hiding, or is it just the paddle? Yeah. I'm wondering if you could, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they these are download, but everybody's making them now. Okay. Um, the paddle balls, they're like tennis balls, right? But they're a little bit smaller and heavier. The reason being these paddles are are so powerful that if we use if we use a regular tennis ball for the better players, for me, you know, I can still you can keep a rally going up. But for the better players like Andres, he'll stand back at the service line, smash the ball, it'll hit the other side and come back. Wow. If you use a regular tennis ball, because these are heavier and smaller, uh, it keeps the for the top players, it keeps the ball alive longer because you can't put it away as quickly, right? You can't just go boom and it's away. Okay. So so they're uh they've they they've decided to make them a little bit small. But it's a tennis ball. Okay. It's just a sort of like a baby tennis ball. And you see how the ball bounces uh uh off the face of these things really uh really quickly. So that's the the thing you gotta learn is is is is uh is basically if you just take it back, you know, four inches and move it forward, the ball is gonna go half the court anyway. So that's the um the control, the the control that you need on the playing paddle is is very, very important. It's not a power game. It's it's a slice game, it's a patience game, it's a it's a log game. Until somebody like me leaves a short, then you walk up and you put it away. And that's it.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

But uh and that paddle, Bill, today, is that is that a new paddle? Like, is that sort of what the paddles look like today?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Well, this has got special uh uh there's a fellow that uh paddle manufacturing in Spain. Okay, and this is actually about 80% recyclable. Oh wow. Like okay, and this is really, really unique. And but I love it the way it plays. Uh it's got uh it's got uh you know uh natural fibers on here and it's got some silver and everything else. Um here. Um this is just I mean, I've got a lot of things. It's just it's just another paddle. It's got that EVA foam. Okay, okay. This is not a recyclable thing, it's got EVA foam and it's got uh the the resins and stuff. These guys here are uh are uh bleeding edge, to be to be honest with you. But uh um but yeah, the um I mean the paddles if if I close my eyes and I hit the ball, I I wouldn't realize it because I don't like this. But if you just start, um you know I don't uh you're not gonna really find a difference, very much of a difference in it. Um the other thing is uh I've I've imported paddles, not that it's business, because I want people to get play with good equipment. And and it's a lot more enjoyable that way. Like if you if I what is it, if I were to play uh with my original paddle, sorry get off screen. But if I were to play with my original paddle and I hit the ball here, it's first of all, it's gonna go clang like this, and second of all, the ball's not gonna go anywhere because this is a chunk of plywood and it's very heavy, very hard. Whereas this one here, the ball is the ball will hit on the edges, so the forgiveness of of playing with a good racket, I'm sure it's like that in pickleball as well. Playing with a good racket, you see, even if you don't hit it right on the right in the middle, it's still gonna go pretty well. That's why I want guys, especially beginners, because uh it's frustrating enough learning a new new uh activity. But uh, you know, if you you know, give them the best possible equipment. So as quickly as I can get the new players to pick up a paddle, uh a decent one to play, they enjoy it that much, uh, that much more. But uh uh yeah, paddle technology is just mind-boggling what's happening over the last 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Yeah, it's happening, Bill. Is there any fear within paddle? I know there is in pickleball that that technology is going to shift the game in a way that's not necessarily good for the game. Is is there something happening on the paddle side that would concern you as a paddle person at this point?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

I think it already has happened. Like initially, initially they didn't have paddle balls. And as the as the technology of paddles were coming, the the the points for the top-top players were getting shorter and shorter and shorter. So if you had a uh, let's say uh um you know a really, really good tennis player, a tall, really good tennis player, uh there's no way you could hit a lob because he would just put it away. The ball's too big. So we we adjusted by doing by doing this. Uh the um, what do you call it? The um the paddles, uh the reason we adjusted a little bit by not going more than 38 mil. Because if you go 40 mil or more, it's it's almost like you know, you're gonna the ball's gonna explode off the face. So so we're we're limiting it to that. Now there's no there's no limits on how many holes you put in or the material you use, like golf, for instance. You know, they have the shaft technology and ball technology. But we we adjusted a little bit on that uh already. Uh the other thing that that hadn't dawned on us that it's starting to because uh a lot of paddle is going into uh um residential areas is the noise factor. Yes, yes. Uh I know that in pickleball it's it's an issue, and I and there are people working on that. The noise factor with uh with a smaller ball, in my view, uh uh the heavier ball, it's not as much as as uh as uh as it would have been with a ball that you can really whack. Um but uh that might be something that that needs to be addressed uh later on. Right now it seems to be we we're kind of getting away with it. But um, you know, I mean it's 7:30 in the morning Sunday, if you're playing paddle, it's you know, and you know, it's my ball, it's your ball, and and whacking smashes might not go over too well.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

But uh yeah, well, Bill, it's always challenges, isn't there? There's always a challenge to something. But yeah, I was curious what your thoughts were on that because I think there's a lot of concern within pickleball today to speak of you know that racket sport about the technology changing the game, the pace of the game, the safety of the game in some ways, because the ball speed that some of these top players are able to generate off these new paddles. I mean, these these plastic balls are moving at 65 or 75 miles an hour. And and there's a danger.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

You don't want to get dead in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

No, yeah, no. And there's a lot of talk about mandatory eye protection and where that sits and and you know what where the responsibility for that lies, whether it's with the player, with the local club, with you know, pickleball Ontario, pickleball Canada. So interested in your thoughts on how that's all going. So well, Bill, I'm watching the clock, so I'm gonna be careful here. I have a couple of final questions and then you know I'd like you to kind of close out with you're good, you're good to go. I love it. Yeah. If you could go in a time machine today and go back to 1992 or maybe beyond, is there were there any decisions that you made uh or the sport had made that you kind of would look back on? You mentioned kind of briefly the scoring, perhaps, so you might have approached that a bit differently. Is there anything about today's modern game that you kind of wish you had have thought about 20 years, 30 years ago? Is there anything that pops out in your mind in that regard?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

Um well yeah, there was a there was a big adjustment that uh initially you disagreed with. That uh we so we had an early adjustment. And in in in the in the Latin countries, yeah, you used to have you used to serve and and wait. Okay. It means you couldn't serve and go and play the ball. And in in Europe, they they call serve and volley. So you have your partner at the net, you serve and you go to the net, and you could play the ball when it Came back the first time. Okay. It was found after a few years and some arguments that the the sport would be better off serving and going to the net. It was more exciting that way. Sure. So that uh the early decisions on that would be uh we might have we might have moved to turf earlier, you know, than we did. Because playing on hard court, uh again, the the the the points are uh smaller and the injuries are more. So you might have done that. Uh the the lighting, the lighting that we uh we had uh in the early days was not properly done. They would put him in the corners and he'd be half blinded now. They're putting them at the in the edges and curving them in. So that was a decision that might have been made. Uh the net was higher then, uh and uh it's a bit lower now. Uh so turf. But these things I think sometimes you just have to, like you were saying, you know, you just have to work through them and say, ah, why don't we do, you know, why don't we do this? And then it was, but um no, when it comes to uh tournament wise or or anything of the sort that we might have done differently, I don't know. I think that's it but sport in life, you know, it just things happen and and and and then you just adjust to them. I mean, these had we had the foresight of you know the paddles and the balls and everything else for you know 30 years ago would have been one, but it wasn't ready for it then, right? It just things have its time, you know. It's like they couldn't have invented the light bulb in the 1600s. It's true. This is true.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Yeah, well, the and the reason I'm fascinated by that question, Bill, is I I curl a little bit as well. I took up curling this fall, and they implemented some new uh brushing or sweeping rules in January, uh, curling Canada. And, you know, here's a sport that's been around longer than time itself, and yet it's still evolving and it's still growing. And I'm fascinated by that because, you know, pickleball is still a relatively young sport in comparison to others, golf, you know, curling, uh, paddle, certainly in certain parts of the world, um, if not globally, still considered somewhat of a young sport, I suppose. So it's always fascinating that the sport's willing to recognize that we didn't necessarily get everything right, but how could we? You know, how could we possibly see into the future and recognize that the technology might shift the game? And and you mentioned golf. You've been a golf player and a pro and a teacher and a coach uh for much of your life too, Bill. And, you know, people like Tiger Woods came along and they changed the game. I mean, the game that Jack Nicholas played was not the game Tiger Woods played. And even just his entourage, you know, with you know, he had a whole team of nutritionists and dietitians and you know, fitness people. And I mean, Jack had nothing but a steering wheel in a car, and he drove himself from tournament to tournament with Barbara and the kids you were drinking, we were smoking drink beer while he was playing golf.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

But uh it's just uh the uh the the way that these uh things develop, you know, it's just uh in incredible. You can't you can't have uh you know foresight for uh for uh for all of that. But uh the last rule that we changed uh for paddles that just came on board now is is we're finding that uh people uh uh are getting taught so well that the rallies were going so long. So when you get to deuce, in reality, the deuce points were probably longer than the actual game points. Because you you gotta win by two points, right? Like you do in tennis. So it's so my answer right, my eye. So what they're doing now is they're saying, listen, after the second deuce point, the next point wins. So that's been uh the the latest adjustment, to my understanding, the latest adjustment that the rule for tournaments, anyway, uh uh that uh just to make sure that we don't, you know. I booked the court for an hour and a half, I only got a match and a half in. You know, that's because your deuces were half the butt um yeah, so that's that's probably the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

Yeah. Well, Bill, we've talked about a lot, and I appreciate everything that you've shared with me this morning. I appreciate your time. Closing question for you before I give you a chance to touch on anything that we didn't touch on that you'd like to mention. But uh when you look back at everything, all the way back to that first day that you saw the game and ultimately all the things that have happened since then, what are you most proud of in all of that?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

Uh you know, I get a I'm not I'm not proud, but I get uh an incredible sense of self-satisfaction whenever I see somebody play paddle. Like if I saw you playing paddle, I don't care where. Because I in the back of my mind, whether it's true or not, I I think to myself, you know what, had I not been such a hard head and uh and just stuck with it, maybe Paddle wouldn't be here and they wouldn't be enjoying it. So the the greatest thing, you know, to this very day when I see somebody play paddle, I go, you know, I kind of had something to do with it. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. That that gives me a great pleasure. Great answer. Okay. No, I don't have uh I would do everything over the same thing over and over again. I think uh um sure that I might have uh yeah, you know, done things a little bit differently, but who's to know? At the time, you have this kind of information, you have this situation, that's how you act. So but uh but the fact that people are playing paddling Canada today uh gives me great pleasure. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

That sense of it's kind of good for you. Well, let me just say very genuinely and very sincerely, Bill, I just admire your spirit and I admire the work and and you know I don't think anyone can deeply and and fully appreciate what it took to get the sport to where it is, you know, in the moment today. And so I just want to congratulate you on all of that. And and the world needs more bills, like we really do. We need people that are willing to take the bull by the horn and run with something and and drive that off of a platform of passion, not profit. And so I, you know, I applaud you for all of that. Final thing, is there anything that we didn't touch on today, Bill, that you were hoping we'd mention in the podcast? I just want to give you a chance to toss anything else that maybe I didn't think of today. I'm trying to, you know, not have another moment where I think, oh, darn, I should have asked him about that. But did we miss anything today?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

No, I was gonna have another oh that means we'll have an opportunity to talk again because if we love it. I think uh I think basically one of the things I like about this also, Mike, is hopefully it gives people a little bit of a sense that this just didn't happen. You know, like it took a lot, you know, a whole bunch of stuff, things that came together so that you can go to Toronto tomorrow and play on a beautiful glass court with a nice paddle and uh and and have some good competition. So so uh uh so this the you know what we're doing today hopefully plants a little seed in people's mind. It says, you know what um uh something had to happen to for us to be on the court and enjoying it. So that's you know, and it's and like I said at the beginning, really appreciate you taking uh interest.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

And this is very, very helpful for our sport. Well, you've been generous beyond description, Bill. And I think, you know, when I spoke to Andreas and he mentioned you, and I could just, you know, in his answers and in and almost in his eyes, you know, uh the passion that he has for both the sport and for you, uh, it was very evident to me. And so when the opportunity to talk to you directly came about, I didn't hesitate. I mean, it was when that email came in, I was you made my day, you made my week. I was so thrilled that you reached out and complimented the uh the conversation that we had had. And so the chance to meet you today and to spend a bit of time with you has been uh absolutely my pleasure. So I thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

Oh, I was gonna say, so you you just spoke to the to Canada's paddle royal family, because uh all the families, all the families play paddle, and uh we we all enjoy it. And uh uh and uh like I say, watching everybody else plays gives us great joy.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

Good. Well, Bill, the whole intent of the podcast is not to monetize it in any way. It's never been the thought when I started this back in January. It was simply to spread the word and share the stories behind the paddle, whether that be a pickleball paddle or a paddle paddle or you know, any of that. I just think, yeah, the community behind racket sports for me has been, you know, uh a really welcome thing in my life. And I've come to meet some of the most amazing people. And so as I did that and as I started thinking about their stories, I thought we want to tell that. There's a lot of podcasts out there that talk about products and and tips and all of that. And that's great. We need that. But we also need to understand the people like we have with you today and and the stories behind the paddle. So I appreciate you doing that today. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

Okay, I appreciate it. And hopefully this won't be the last time you and I talk.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

Well, I'm gonna hold you to that because I'd like to touch base down the road and get a catch up call with you. So I'm gonna I'm gonna mark that in my calendar that I've got an open invitation to reach out. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it.